The following is the press release for the debates that took place recently in Michigan:
-------------------
The Center for Religious Debate and Ministry to Muslims recently
issued challenges to several Muslim organizations and individuals to debate
topics of central relevance to the truth claims of Christianity and Islam. The
only Muslim to answer the call was Osama Abdallah of Answering-Christianity.com,
who agreed to participate in four debates over the course of two days
(Saturday, June 15th – Sunday, June 16th). Although it is
widely agreed that Osama did not prevail in any of these debates, he was
commended for having greater confidence in the defensibility of Islam over
against Christianity than many other Muslims, particularly those Muslim groups
like the Muslim Debate Initiative who were challenged but declined the
invitation.
The first debate that took place was with Sam Shamoun,
appropriately dubbed the man Muslims fear most, who is the primary writer for
Answering-Islam.org, and addressed the question: “Is Muhammad a True Prophet?”
The second debate featured Dr. Edward Dalcour, the founder and president of The
Department of Christian Defense, on the topic: “Is Jesus the God-Man?” The
third debate was with Anthony Rogers, also from Answering-Islam.org as well as
AnsweringMuslims.com, on the topic “Is Muhammad in the Bible.” The fourth and
final debate was with Louis Lionheart of Truthdefenders.com, who defended the
proposition that the Bible we have today is the Word of God.
Apart from several intemperate outbursts from Osama Abdallah
that disrupted the flow at points, the debates proved to be very enlightening
for those who were in attendance and invigorated the confidence of many
Christians, some of whom travelled from far away countries to attend the
events.
------------
Here is the first debate between Sam Shamoun and Osama Abdallah. The other debates will be added here as they become available.
The second debate, the one I did with Osama, can be found here:
128 comments:
If you prefer to watch the video on youtube and leave comments there, it can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neehIss8zfs&feature=youtu.be&a
Thanks for posting this.
I look forward to watching as Osama's outpourings on this site usually have me crying with laughter.
Where did Osama get all that hair? Last time I saw him, he was clean cut like me.
Osama needs to get a hair cut and get a real job lol
Osama didn't look like I expected him to from watching past videos.
I feel sorry for Osama, O my I really don't know what to say. Osama was not respectful, he proved no points whatsoever, and he looked like a fool! I think thats why I feel sorry for him. Sam of course did a wonderful job and he took Osama to school. I know Sam could of said so much more but I think Sam felt somewhat sorry for Osama too!!
I wanted to ask Sam, when Osama was was reading that passage about the 3 years wasn't that speaking of priesthood? Sorry but I got lost with all his ranting and raving??
I think most of us are thinking..."I can't believe I waited this long to see THIS".
Basically this was a rehashing of the 2003 debate I was at on Ptalk. Where Osama still hasn't improved and Sam gave him a spanking then aswell.
Except in real life, Osama cannot be red dotted and lost control over and over and violated the debate rules and etiquette.
Favourite part was when Anthony Rogers came up to Osama to CALM HIM DOWN. LOLOL..
As for the arguments themselves, the debate was "Is Mohammed a True Prophet" I think to much time focusing on the Bible. And to much time spend on character assassination of Mohammed. Whether Mohammed is a prophet or not largely depends on the QURAN ASWELL. "Monotheism" and a whole bunch of issues, not merely moral behavior. As for Osama he just can't get his act together no matter what, incoherent rambling...
Please don't waste your time on letting people like Osama speak for 40 minutes at the beginning again. lol
The hug at the end is priceless.
Osama is going for the Anton Chigurh look (pronounced sugar) 'No Country for Old Men', too bad he didn't adapt the personally.
Hey...you've got to give Osama one thing: He actually did the debate! He has more chutzpah than most other dawagandists. Furthermore, in his defense, he does a better job at written argument than verbal debate...but he's not really that good at either. I just really felt bad for Osama...it was like watching Jerry Lewis fight Mike Tyson in his prime.
Muslims who debate should get much, much more respect than Muslims who don't.
I was surprised Sam Shamoun didn't answer Osama's question about Numbers in a simpler way.
I would have simply said Mosaic Law condemns sex before marriage so raping captured girls was by logic understood to be haram.One would have to marry.I would have shown the Mosaic Laws that condemn sex before marriage and point made.
Sam should have pointed out that what is called a slave in Mosaic law is really a Jewish man or woman who is working for free to pay a debt he owes.Since he or she cant pay with money then payment is by labor.For 7 years at the most.It would have given the audience more knowledge of what Mosaic law really is.
In the Koran a slave is a SLAVE,he is not paying a debt he himself got into.
There are grey areas in life but one thing is for sure.The Western church,even the Evangelical one,is guilty of neglecting apologetics horribly.Few pastors ever give INTELLECTUAL reasons why the NT is true.
All you hear are the same sermons about being a good person.That is no good,since an ATHEIST or BUDDHIST or PANTHEIST can be as holy.So alot leave Jesus since they were never given reasons to believe what the NT says about him is true.
So when they read that 1 Peter,for example,was NOT written by him,even though the letter says it was,for X technical reasons,and they become convinced it is true,then they lose faith.
There is,so the person thinks, a forgery in the NT,then what else is false?Why didn't the pastor talk about this?He certainly knew,wasn't his silence unethical?etc.
Or what about the silence on Muslim persecution of Christians?In 2012 100,000 Christians were killed for their faith,mostly in Muslim countries.All the sermons about being good,etc you hear week after week are meaningless compared to the horror.
I pray Osama humbles himself before the Lord...I know its a tough pill to swallow, acknowledging that you and your ancestor's have been duped but self-honesty is better than self-deception.
Sam did great in the way he answered Osama
I was expecting Osama to have a beard!
This is the first debate that I watched for Osama.
Maybe one day you guys could debate Surah Al-Masad Quran 111
It is about cursing a man "Abu Lahab" who is the uncle of Mohammad
who refused Islam ...
Mohammad could not kill him because he was rich with influence.
Not only that but also cursing his wife "Umm Jamilah"!
So, after 1400 years, Muslims still calling him names!
How that is beneficial to us now? ...
Doesn't that show that Allah is weak?
That will make a fine debate ...
My thoughts:
I've already asked him for proof that churches in America commonly have the eye symbol as he claims. He hasn't presented any proof to back this up.
Maybe I misheard, but when is a Camel a Donkey? It sounds like he's saying Mohammad riding a camel fulfills the verse.
Osama is also aagain trying to have it both ways, claiming that both the OT is corrupted, or their laws are evil, but then he appeals to the OT!
Why is he apealing to Romans? He's already said that Paul was an innovator (who supposedly came 1,000s of years later!)! Again, trying to have it both ways!
"This is easier than I thought" Ha! But it's Chistians who are arrogant!
"You don't find this in Arab nations" REALLY, Osama?
*The rape of a reporter in Egypt
*The floggins and murders of Christians
*The theft of destruction of Christian property.
He is a vile liar. He tries to blame Christianity on secularism. Christianity FORBIDS all the things he says, and it is because the west has turned away from Christianity. Still he repeats this lie!
Aaand he does just what I thought he did. He cites tu quo que. OSAMA: You can't blame something that you appeal to! Even if you prove the OT is evil, it just means that both Christianity and Islam is false, since Islam relies on the OT! This is basic logic!
"we're not here comparing laws". Except You did, hypocrite! Then you do it again a few minutes later! Again, you lie.
Wow. Osama refuses to give equal time to refute what he says, he wants all the time for himself, yet he claims OTHER people are being dishonest! Ha!
Over all it's clear Osama acted like a child (like he does here), and didn't refute anything Sam said.
Where is Osama's beard? The Sunnah says a Muslim man should have a beard...so where is his?
Hey Anthony I figured out why Osama hasn't been in religious debate for so long.
He's been debating on the show called the "view" with a bunch of secularists:
http://0.tqn.com/d/talkshows/1/0/9/-/-/-/05.Rosie.picture.jpg
osama has a lot to learn about the 4 books. I'm not scholared in the quran n hadiths and i even knew and researched some of what Sam said to be true! great job SAM!!! Keep it up!!!
Osama said that most bible translations do not have wife and Husband in Deut 21:10...
I just checked KJV, ESV, NASB, NET, NIV... all say Wife and Husband.
Islam reaches Mexico, Latin America; Convert to Islam murders his KUFFAR parents who wanted to help him financially;
http://www.enlacejudio.com/2013/06/26/degollo-sus-padres-en-nombre-de-allah-el-extremismo-islamico-se-asoma-en-mexico/
Here is part of the story translated; The news report says;
The following story did not happen in Afghanistan, Syria or Iran, but in Palenque, Chiapas. On February 7, 2013.
Naomi Chavez Garcia and Jacinto Aurelio Vargas traveled from San Cristobal, Chiapas, to visit their son, Gilberto Garcia, 43 years old, in order to give him some financial aid. No one could have imagined how an act of love for a child would end in tragedy. Gilberto had "received" the order by Allah (God in Arabic) to sacrifice his parents for being infidels.
First Gilberto slaughtered his stepfather, then he chased his mother and caught her in the street where he murdered his mother in cold blood. Then drag his mother’s body to his home and tried to decapitate the bodies lifeless of his step father and mother. Beside the two bodies of his parents was found a Koran (Muslim holy book).
Thanks to the complaint of villagers several municipal police patrol arrived on the scene and surrounded the house, Gilberto thereupon gave up and went with them willingly.
While in custody Gilberto argued that the reason why he murdered his parents was because God ordained it, otherwise it would be his soul that would be sacrificed. The reason why God commanded him to sacrifice his parents is because they were "satanic idol worshipers" (non-Muslims).
Are we really aware of what is happening in our country?, Might sound like an isolated case, but it is precisely in Chiapas where Islam is experiencing rapid growth when compared to other parts of the country. He could be mentally ill, but it was the Islamic discourse which aroused in him desires to kill his parents for the simple fact of not being Muslims, pattern repeated everywhere where there is Islamic extremism.
That is, this would not be for anything new if it happened in Pakistan. But it is alarming when it happens in a country like Mexico, a country that has freedom of religion and for which we are very proud. But the problem of freedom of worship is: how far you can allow extremist groups which incite hatred proselytizing.
Right at the end Osama was criticising Christians because they eat pork and cited Isaiah 65 to make his point. But the verses in Isaiah (65:2-5) refer to people who deliberately reject salvation and who hate God and who wilfully provoke him to his face with various idolatrous practices. So the issue is not the consumption of pork as such, but rather, the verse is simply stating the fact that pork was included in the overall idolatrous ritual aimed at provoking/insulting God (“the eating of things offered to idols.” 1Corinthians 8:4).
According to their imagination (“pursuing their own imaginations” Isaiah 65:2) they include whatever they believe will lend weight to the provocation. But it is their bad attitude and their rejection of salvation (“all day long I have held out my hand to an obstinate people.” Isaiah 65:2) that will actually condemn them, not what they eat or drink.
God has no problem with what we eat when it is simply to satisfy our hunger.
So he said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?” Mark 7:18, 19
But the simple minded Islamic interpretation stares at “who eat the flesh of pigs” (Isaiah 65:4) and only sees “if you eat pork you will go to hell”
It is what is in a man’s heart that defiles him, not what he eats or drinks.
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these things come from within and defile a man.” Mark 7:21-23
Anthony,
As I am typing this, the third debate (our debate) is being uploaded. The following is in the description of the video that is currently being uploaded:
Osama Abdallah VS Anthony Rogers on "Does Muhammad exist in the Bible?". Sunday June 16, 2013. Watch how Anthony Rogers fabricated his false criteria to disprove the many and overwhelming verses in the Bible that clearly speak about:
1- The Prophet coming from the EAST. The Bible calls the Arabs the tribes of the EAST, and Ishmael settled in the EAST.
2- The Prophet coming from the desert.
3- The Prophet coming from Arabia.
4- The Prophet coming with a New Law and New Covenant, and that the Jews "must not fear him".
5- "Let the world have a brand new heart (fresh start)". GOD Almighty supposedly declared this in the Bible.
6- The House of GOD Almighty will be built in the desert of Kedar (Arabia).
7- The Path to the House of GOD in Arabia will be called "The Holy Path", or the "Path of Holiness". This is exactly what the path or way to Mecca (Makkah) is.
8- The Lands of Kedar and Tema (both sons of Ishmael) will have a NEW LAW and a NEW DIVINE BOOK sent to them.
9- The Jews in the New Testament were expecting two: (1) The Messiah; (2) The Prophet.
10- Two Chariot Masters (a Servant or a Prophet is also called a Chariot Master in the Bible) will come: ONE RIDING A DONKEY, and the other RIDING A CAMEL. Both Jesus and Muhammad perfectly fulfilled this. Peace and blessings be upon them.
11- The future Prophet will lead an army of 10,000 saints (or strong believers). Prophet Muhammad liberated Mecca with an army of 10,000 believers, and he was riding his camel.
12- The Prophet will be LIKE UNTO MOSES, who will come from the COUSINS of the Jews. Indeed, Prophet Muhammad was very similar to Moses, and he came from Arabia.
Watch the video for the ample verses and elaborations that I provided. Christ was a Jew! Muhammad was a Gentile, and from brand new people!
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
After watching this debate, I must confess that I do feel sorry for this very misguided muslim who is following a religion which sets him up for humiliation.
All these aruguments that he has offered is the same as what other muslim apologist use but some of them are a little more polished by using diversion,evasion and throwing up of red herrings etc
As Sam says, we believe,"Osama, that you know that your cause is indefensible, So come and be saved by our Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ".
Thanks, Osama.
To rework an old saying, You can tell who won a debate by finding out who saw no need to edit it.
I look forward to seeing how much you thought you needed to add. :)
I'll be more than happy to do this all over again in September. Man, did I overcome my dyslexia? :) Thanks to Allah Almighty for everything.
LOL, I love how my Christian friends thought that they have walked me into a trap, by debating 4 big topics with 4 experienced debators, and ended up being the prey themselves :))). One by one, they fell to the Truth of Islam! I absolutely love it.
You tell me embrace Jesus. I already have Christ as my Lord and Messiah (my Christ). But he is not my Creator, nor could he create a little bug without the permission and authority of GOD Almighty.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah :)
Four experienced debaters? That is an interesting insight into what it must have felt like to you, but Louis has never debated before, and I have only debated one other person. Eddie has not debated a lot either. So you got trounced by four people, three of whom had little to no experience. Lol
And like I said, edit my debate or Sam's and you can settle for Spaghetti. You will not be there in September.
Ok, the link for my debate with Mr. Semper who's coming on September (Anthony Rogers) is located at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CxhJw_yeN4&feature=em-upload_owner
Enjoy! :)
Osama watching the debate now.
You wrote...
1- The Prophet coming from the EAST. The Bible calls the Arabs the tribes of the EAST, and Ishmael settled in the EAST.
My Question:
East of What? The United States?
Do you have a globe or a wold map? If not might I suggest google maps. Because Mecca is almost directly south of Israel, well more south then it is east.
Anthony looks like Osama is not going in September.
Osama even added a video at the end lol
I knew Osama would take the dishonest route since he does not want to face us again.
Taqqiya Productions strikes again.
"I knew Osama would take the dishonest route since he does not want to face us again."
You can always count on me to defend Islam. I never say no to ANY CHALLENGE. In fact, I'd like to debate the SCIENTIFIC MIRACLES debate either with you or with Mr. Wood, or with anyone else, since you yourself have mentioned that you would like to refute them, during our debate.
This is certainly one of my favorite topics, because it thoroughly demonstrates the Holy Quran's Miracles.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
this was actually painful to watch. to see Osama defend the indefensible. all credit to him, at least he was prepared to debate this topic. the fact most muslim debaters wont debate the prophet hood of muhammed shows that they know he is not the mercy to mankind as they so claimed. they prefer to believe a lie than to receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved
just to mention what a blessing sam shamoun is to the body of Christ. the hadiths are such a minefield which most ordinary laymen do not have the time and energy (I've tried reading bukhari and it was sooooo tedious). His website is so valuable to arm Christians when confronting the lie of islam. let us pray and bless such guys with our material gain as they are coming against the very gates of hades
Derek, loooooool.
Osama just an fyi.
Sheep are not cattle. Just thought you should know
"You can always count on me to defend Islam. I never say no to ANY CHALLENGE"
Osama is like the audley Harrison(English heavyweight boxer that keeps getting embarrassed in the ring) of muslim debaters. he keeps getting knocked down but still wants to get back in the ring for one more challenge. come on Osama it time to hang up the gloves and bow your knee to the Lord Jesus
OK...so I wrote some kind words about Osama...but he still claims victory after this utter lashing? Listen Pooh Bear....you got spanked sir. Dear brother in humanity : You win some and you lose some. Just suck your teeth, roll on, and work on your craft. Better yet, leave what your conscience knows to be false and embrace Jesus - the true Mercy to mankind! He loves you Osama, and is not willing that you should perish in your sin and unbelief! The Jesus you believe in is not the Jesus that walked the earth, but the concoction of a shady self-proclaimed prophet who came hundreds of years later - his words and deeds disqualify him from speaking on the Lord Jesus. Leave islam .... run to the truth. You are without excuse.
Hazakim1,
Let me ask you this. Suppose everyone on this board INSISTED on bowing down to you, and kissed your feet every single time they see you. Would you like it? Would you approve of it?
YOU SIR are not in any position in any way, shape or form to tell me to love the Lord Jesus Christ (The Messiah). As a Muslim, I love him and cherish him, and respect him, and rever him, and would follow him in a blink of an eye if he were to return. But he is not anyone's creator. And Christ is sick and tired of YOU & YOUR POLYTHIESTS for continuing to equate him with his Creator, and everyone's and everything's Creator, the Almighty GOD Almighty.
YOU SAY CHRIST NEVER DENIED TO BE GOD. I say that is a bold lie from Hell! He said Why do you keep calling me Good? No one is Good, except GOD Alone.
Now please spare me from any debate here, because I am not interested. I have already smashed trinity into pieces in my debate with Edward Dalcour. So go and see that debate.
But here is the bottom line, Hazakim1: CHRIST DOESN'T APPROVE OF YOUR BLASPHEMIES. Just like you would probably wouldn't approve of everyone kissing your feet. Respect you, yes, but bowing down and kissing your feet, no. At least I would never accept it, not even on my hands. Ok?
So my advise to you is to stop FLASHING CHRIST INTO everyone's face, because you do not represent him. We are the True Muslims ("Christians" is a fabricated term), not you. And remember that Muslims are the original believers. Even your top debator Shamoun couldn't even TOUCH this point during the debate.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
can anyone inform me of this tradition that muslims keep quoting when defending muhammeds child bride aeisha about Joseph being 90 and Mary being 12 when they got married. where does this tradition originate from? early church fathers, gnostic gospels???
Here goed pussycat condemning Muhammad to hell again, with his statements. Notice what he wrote:
"But here is the bottom line, Hazakim1: CHRIST DOESN'T APPROVE OF YOUR BLASPHEMIES. Just like you would probably wouldn't approve of everyone kissing your feet. Respect you, yes, but bowing down and kissing your feet, no. At least I would never accept it, not even on my hands. Ok?"
Notice that he calls bowing down and kissing someone's feet as blasphemous. Let us see the kind of treatment Muhammad received with his approval:
The Companions knew well the baraka in the hand of the Prophet; they also knew about its being the symbol of Divine generosity and power. They loved to touch and kiss it, they competed for the water he had dipped it in, and, after his death, those who never saw him were eager to touch and kiss those hands that had touched him.
Both the Jews and the Christians who recognized the Prophet as a Divine envoy also showed their love and respect for him by kissing both his hands and his feet.
Once, after the Prophet's emigration to Madina, a Jew said to a friend of his, "Let us go to this Prophet!" his friend said, "Say not Prophet! Were he to hear you he would have four eyes!" They came to the Prophet and asked him about nine things which he answered. They kissed his hands and feet, saying, "We testify that you are a Prophet!" "What prevents you from following me?" he asked. "David prayed that there should always be a Prophet from his progeny. We fear, were we to follow you, that the Jews would kill us!" [79- Tirmidhi 5/72 Nisa'i 7:111] …
When the delegation of 'Abdal Qays reached Madina, [they had such longing for the Prophet that] they jumped off their camels and rushed to him, kissing his hands and feet. [92- Majma’al- Zawa'id 9:389] …
The famous Follower, Thabit al-Bunani, Anas ibn Malik's student, said, "Whenever I visited Anas, they told him I was there, he came to me, and I took both his hands and kissed them saying, ‘My father be the ransom of these hands that have touched the Messenger of Allah, may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him!’ and I kissed his eyes saying, ‘My father be the ransom of these eyes which have seen the Messenger of Allah, may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him!’" [96- Majma'al-Zawa'id 9:325] …
Burayda said, "A Bedouin came to the Prophet, may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him, saying, ‘O Messenger of Allah, I have accepted Islam, so show me something that will increase me in certitude!' He asked him, ‘What do you want?’ He replied, ‘Call this tree, let it come to you!’ ‘Go to her and call her!’ He told him. The Bedouin went to the tree saying, ‘Answer the Messenger of Allah!’ The tree leaned to one side, pulling her roots out, then to the other, pulling her roots out then she went to the Prophet, may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him, saying, ‘Peace be upon you O Messenger of Allah!’ The Bedouin exclaimed, ‘This is sufficient for me! This is sufficient for me!’ The Prophet, may Allah's blessings and peace be upon him, said, ‘Go back!’ so it returned to its place and struck its roots again. The Bedouin said, ‘Permit me, O Messenger of Allah, to kiss your hands and feet!’ He did [kiss his hands and feet], then said, ‘Permit me to prostate myself before you!’ ‘No man should prostate himself before another man!’ he replied." [98- Suyuti, al-Khasa'is al-Kubra, 2:200, Bazzar, and Abu Nu'aym] (Dr. Mostafa al-Badawi, The Hand of the Prophet: http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/ThehandoftheProphet.htm; underline emphasis ours)
It is truly strange that Muhammad refused to allow a man to prostrate before him even though he allowed him to kiss his very hands and feet! Isn't kissing the feet of a mere man just as much an act of worship as bowing before him?
More in the next post.
This is my second post to Osama.
Here are some quotes from the late renowned Muslim jurist Qadi ‘Iyad and cited in his monumental work ‘Ash-Shifa which mention Muslims drinking Muhammad’s blood, his leftover water and even his urine!
Muhammad ibn Sa’d, al-Waqidi’s scribe, related that ‘A’isha said to the Prophet, "When you come from relieving yourself, we do not see anything noxious from you." He said, "‘A’isha, don’t you know that the earth swallows up what comes out of the prophets so that none of it is seen?"
Although this tradition is not famous, the people of knowledge still mention the purity of his faeces and urine…
There was also a time when Malik ibn Sinan DRANK HIS BLOOD on the Day of Uhud and licked it up. The Prophet allowed him to do that and then said, "The Fire will not touch you."
Something similar occurred when ‘Abdullah ibn az-Zubayr drank cupped blood. The Prophet said, "Woe to you from the people and woe to the people from you," but he did not object to what he had done.
Something similar is related about when a woman DRANK SOME OF HIS URINE. He told her, "You will never complain of a stomach-ache."
He did not order any of them to wash their mouths out nor did he forbid them to do it again.
The hadith of the woman drinking the urine is sound. Ad-Daraqutni follows Muslim and al-Bukhari who relate it in the Sahih. The name of this woman was Baraka, but they disagree about her lineage. Some say that it was Umm Ayman, a wooden cup he placed under his bed in which he would urinate during the night. One night he urinated in it and when he examined it in the morning there was nothing in it. He asked Baraka about that. She said, "I got up and felt thirsty, so I drank it without knowing." The hadith is related by Ibn Jurayj and others. (Qadi 'Iyad Ibn Musa al-Yahsubi, Kitab Ash-shifa bi ta'rif huquq al-Mustafa (Healing by the recognition of the Rights of the Chosen One), translated by Aisha Abdarrahman Bewley [Madinah Press, Inverness, Scotland, U.K., third reprint 1991, paperback], pp. 35-37; capital and underline emphasis ours)
More in the next post.
This is my third post to Osama.
The Qadi further noted that:
When Quraysh sent 'Urwa ibn Mas'ud to the Messenger of Allah in the year of al-Hudaybiyya, he saw the unparalleled respect which his Companions displayed towards him. Whenever he did 'wudu they ran to get his leftover 'wudu water and nearly fought over it. If he spat they took it with their hands and wiped it on their faces and bodies. If a hair of his fell they ran to get it. If he commanded them to do something, they ran to do his command. If he spoke, they lowered their voices in his presence. They did not stare at him due to their respect for him. When he returned to Quraysh, he said, "People of Quraysh! I have been to Chosroes in his kingdom, and Caesar in his kingdom and the Negus in his kingdom, but by Allah, I have not seen any king among his people treated anything like the way Muhammad is treated by his Companions."…
Anas said, "I saw the Messenger when his hair was being shaved. His companions were around him and whenever a lock fell, a man picked it up." (Pp. 236-237; underline emphasis ours)
The sahih ahadith narrate something similar:
… Before embracing Islam Al-Mughira was in the company of some people. He killed them and took their property and came (to Medina) to embrace Islam. The Prophet said (to him, "As regards your Islam, I accept it, but as for the property I do not take anything of it. (As it was taken through treason). Urwa then started looking at the Companions of the Prophet. By Allah, whenever Allah's Apostle spat, the spittle would fall in the hand of one of them (i.e. the Prophet's companions) WHO WOULD RUB IT ON HIS FACE AND SKIN; if he ordered them they would carry his orders immediately; if he performed ablution, they would struggle to take the remaining water; and when they spoke to him, they would lower their voices and would not look at his face constantly out of respect. Urwa returned to his people and said, "O people! By Allah, I have been to the kings and to Caesar, Khosrau and An-Najashi, yet I have never seen any of them respected by his courtiers as much as Muhammad is respected by his companions. By Allah, if he spat, the spittle would fall in the hand of one of them (i.e. the Prophet's companions) who would rub it on his face and skin; if he ordered them, they would carry out his order immediately; if he performed ablution, they would struggle to take the remaining water; and when they spoke, they would lower their voices and would not look at his face constantly out of respect." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 50, Number 891)
More in the next post.
This is my fourth post to Osama.
All of these quotes were taken from my articles:
http://answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/rebuttals/abualrub/jafar1.html
http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/zawadi_corruption_prostration.htm
So notice folks. Muslims not only kissed Muhammad's hands and feet, they even went as far as to drink his blood, his leftover water and even his urine!
Therefore, pussycat a.k.a. spaghetti monster has just proven that Muslims are pagans for worshiping false prophet! Way to go pussycat!
If I didn't know better I would actually think you were a Christian helping other Christians to humiliate and shame Muhammad by exposing his immoral and pagan practices.
Like I said in our debate, do Muhammad a favor and stop defending him.
@Sam,
If what you conclude is true, then this still doesn't prove Islam to be false. It would simply mean that Muhammad has went too far (similar to Solomon worshing idols in the Bible), and in this case may be Allah Almighty would've applied a sever punishment for him in this life and in the life after. May be the severing of the aorta's Conditional Divine Promise became a Fulfilled Divine Prophecy. This is, again, assuming that your conclusion is all correct.
On the flip side, the Hadiths contain falsehood, and everything that contradicts the Holy Quran gets thrown out.
So either way Shamoun, you have not disproved Islam.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
And just to make it absolutely clear, no I would not bow down and kiss anyone's feet. Not even the Prophet's!
So if what you say is true, and not falsehood that was injected into our history by hypocrites of old and internal enemies of Islam, then the Prophet has gone too far; a Divine reminder from Allah Almighty that he is no more than a flesh and blood, dust and water human, even if he is my master.
Take care,
Cookie Monster.
Another point Sam is that CHRIST in the NT is called "SON OF DAVID". Yet, we all know that King David committed:
1- Adultery with his neighbor's wife.
2- Conspired to murder his neighbor (Bethsheba's husband).
3- Coveted his neighbor's wife.
4- Lied.
Yet, he was forgiven. But notice how Christ is still being called some of this man, David, in the NT.
So even at your worst case scenario sir, you only proved that Prophet Muhammad fell short. Islam still remains unharmed :).
Take care,
Gorilla Cloud LOOOLLL
Osama said: YOU SAY CHRIST NEVER DENIED TO BE GOD. I say that is a bold lie from Hell! He said Why do you keep calling me Good? No one is
Good, except GOD Alone.
Osama, it is not a bold lie from hell but it is your lack of English comprehension, your weakness in logic, your ignorance of how to read and understand the Bible and above all your lack of humility to ask others or seek for answers.
Are you seriously thinking that Christians have not read or understood this passage in Mark 10 for thousands of years? - including the greatest Christian theologians, scholars and intellectuals like Athanasius of Alexandria, Jerome, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Augustine of Hippo, Thomas Aquinas, Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, Jonathan Edwards, C.S. Lewis etc. Do you believe that this simple passage was not explainable by them? Man, you are seriously deluded and quite puffed up about yourself. Go and pick up some great works (i.e. books & writings) of John Calvin or Augustine and you will see how intellectually puny you are.
Osama was thoroughly demolished Sam.
He seems to be a nice person though. One wonders why Osama fails to see all the atrocities committed by muhammed in the name of allah. I think he is afraid of leaving islam despite all the things that are contrary to sound moral judgment expressed by muhammed and his followers. Otherwise Osama may need to have his head examined!
In my view:
Since MARK has 3 passages where Jesus says he is God from the Jewish viewpoint:
a)When he forgave the sins of others.
b)When he said "the Son of Man(Jesus) is Lord of the Sabbath"
c)When he said:"Do not fear,EGO EIMI/I AM",instead of "it is I".
Then when in MARK he said:"Why do you call me good?There is none good but God",he was just using a Jewish technique(also called the Socratic Method),that is found in the Talmud,of answering a question by asking a question in return.
Jesus,using the Socratic Method,was asking the man to define what is good.What is goodness?What is your idea or definition of it?
Do you see what I mean that this guy utterly humiliates and disgraces Muhammad and Islam, even though he thinks he is actually defending the honor of his false prophet? Do you see how even, though he gets pulverized and humiliated over and over again, he actually thinks he is refuting his opponents with his posts, articles and debates?
This is why I said that pussycat is seriously demonized, like the other repulsive swine Nadir Ahmed. Only the Lord Jesus can save and heal them of their demonic oppression which has severely affected their ability to live in reality.
Now let me use David to further humiliate the spaghetti monster.
Notice that Yahweh severely rebuked and punished David for committing adultery and murdering a man, brining judgment upon him and his household for his wicked sins. THIS IS UNLIKE ALLAH who went along with his prophet's sexual perversions, allowing him to rape married captive women, as well as to treat them as whores by allowing for temporary marriages, which is nothing more than prostitution. So Allah calls permissible all this filth and evil, and Osama has the audacity to contrast this with David whom Yahweh severely rebuked!
This, my friends, is the damaging affect that following Muhammad and slurping down too much spaghetti has on the brains and moral compass of Muhammadans like Osama.
And since pussycat was too ashamed and too humiliated to answer my questions, I will repost them here to see if he has the guts to answer them and justify the filth and porn of his immoral prophet.
How would the spaghetti monster feel if a fellow believer came up to him and asked to marry one of his womenfolk, perhaps his sister, daughter, cousin, aunt, divorced or widowed mother etc., for a short period of time?
Would he have no problem handing his women over to such a man or would he be all too eager to allow someone to treat his female relatives this way?
How would he react if this happened repeatedly, e.g. on more than one occasion his womenfolk married men for a sum of money and for a short period of time?
Does he really want his readers to believe that he would have absolutely no problem with such marriages?
Wouldn’t this neophyte agree that it is utterly shameful to even call this marriage since deep down inside he knows that this is nothing more than prostitution?
Moreover, would this buffon be absolutely thrilled at the idea of Muslims attacking his village or city, enslaving his wife and/or sister(s) and having sex with them before selling them off like chattel?
Now maybe the shameless coward will finally answer these questions which he ran from.
Hey folks, I don't know if you got this but Osama just basically conceded that his god murdered Muhammad for going to far in allowing people to turn him into an idol. Note his words carefully:
"If what you conclude is true, then this still doesn't prove Islam to be false. It would simply mean that Muhammad has went too far (similar to Solomon worshing idols in the Bible), and in this case may be Allah Almighty would've applied a sever punishment for him in this life and in the life after. MAY BE THE SEVERING OF THE AORTA'S CONDITIONAL PROMISE BECAME A A FULFILLED DIVINE PROPHECY. This is, again, assuming that your conclusion is all correct."
If you want to get an idea of what Osama is talking about see David Wood's video who murdered Muhammad. Osama virtually admits that Allah murdered Muhammad in fulfillment of the Quran's warning in Q. 69:44-47 that Allah would cut Muhammad's aorta if he ever fabricated words and attributed it to his god.
AND THIS FOLKS IS THE GUY WHO REALLY THINKS HE IS DEFENDING MUHAMMAD!
Sam Shamoun,
In the Jewish Law, if you revile your parents, you are to be put to death. The Holy Quran Commands being kind to your parents, and taking care of them. But never did Allah Almighty Command the death of those who revile their parents.
The Old Testament is very strict and unforgiving in many Laws. All of your arguments are emotional garbage with no real substance. If Islam is false to you because the Holy Quran's Laws on spoils of war are different from the Jewish Law, then why do we never hear you make your noise about the Holy Quran lacking those death penalty punishments for the simplist mistakes?
Furthermore, the Holy Quran also never Commanded killing all of the boys and civilians for revenge. The Jewish Law does. Again, we don't hear you making noise about this, and I did muzzle you in the debate with this very point.
But I am just amazed at how weak your points are. This is perhaps why you need to rely on loud tantrum and screams to fortify them.
Very pathetic indeed.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
And here are some of the reasons why married female captives were allowed for the Believers to have sex with them:
1- The Arabs were, and still are, arrogant and too tribal. Crap like "Me and my brother against my cousin, and me and my cousin against the stranger" still holds till this day.
Do you know what this means? It means that Truth and Justice are out the window with these people. And this is exactly what the response of those tribes that had false prophets among them. For instance, with Musaylama the liar, as we call him, the leaders of his tribe said the following:
"A false prophet from our tribe, and not a true Prophet from yours (Quraysh)"
Such arrogance and stubborness could not be reasoned with. Crushing it and destroying it was the proper answer.
So here Allah Almighty perhaps allowed for the Muslim Believers to sleep with their daughters, and sisters, and mothers, and wives JUST TO PUT THEIR ARROGANCE AND EGOS UNDER THE FEET OF THE MUSLIMS.
This is one possible answer that I could think of.
But I am just amazed at your stupidity and hypocrisy, Sam Shamoun. We have tons of Biblical verses that command the killing of all of the boys and girls and every "breathing thing", and even all of the animals of the enemy. How come you never say Islam is false because It doesn't have such laws?
Clear self-refutation and double-standard.
Osama Abdallah
And as to your Muta noise that you keep making. Let me remind you that it was a full and legitimate marriage in every sense! You cheat on your wife that you married under Muta, and you would get stonned to death for punishment.
The only thing about was that it was a marriage that was destined for divorce, and it was made for widows and divorced women to:
1- Prevent prostitution.
2- Rape.
3- Fornication.
And again, this was a temporary Law that the Prophet, peace be upon him, put and then discontinued. And the Holy Quran clearly (as I demonstrated in the debate) condemns marriages that are intentionally destined for divorce.
ON THE OTHER HAND, SHAMOUN, LOOK AT YOUR DISASTEROUS SOCIETIES. All fornication all around. Even your top religious leaders were scandalized in pedophelia, and rapes and homosexuality, and cheating on their wives.
So Muta remains far greater than your system :). Do you see how pathetic you are? Emotional noise is all you appeal to, and loud screams and tantrums while speaking.
I feel sorry for you.
Osama Abdallah
See folks? He is starting to foam at the mouth again since he realizes he has no good answers to my objections, so he spews out all his spaghetti and raises irrelevant issues and red herrings in order to divert attention away from the fact that he is trying to convince people to follow an immpral prophet who treated women as prostitutes and chattel!
Now I am going to destroy his other lie that Islam does not permit the killing of children. Stay tuned for the next series of posts.
The following is taken from my response to another bufoon Sami Zaatari, and it proves that Islam condones killing children:
More importantly, Zaatari must have forgotten that there is a verse in the Quran which condoned the killing of an innocent young boy:
"So they journeyed on till when they met a young boy; he slew him. Moses said, ‘What! hast thou slain an innocent person without his having slain anyone! Surely, thou hast done a hideous thing’ ... ‘And as for the youth, his parents were believers, and we feared lest on growing up he should involve them into trouble through rebellion and disbelief;’" S. 18:74, 80 Sher Ali
Moses' companion justifies the killing of a young innocent boy on the grounds that the boy may have grown up to be a rebellious unbeliever. Hence, if Zaatari has issues with the Holy Bible he needs to take issue with his own book which condones the killing of a young boy who may have, or may have not, grown up to be a disbeliever. Since Allah had a man kill a boy, which obviously included some kind of violence and pain, would Zaatari now say that his god is cruel and a bloody murderer?
Furthermore, this text supports the point I had made in my paper. It confirms the principle that God can justifiably kill even children on the basis of how they would turn out in the future. God who perfectly knows all things, especially future events, knows that even children grow up to be rebel sinners who defy his commands and acts of mercy.
Moreover, noted Muslim historian al-Tabari stated that the so-called prophet Salih allegedly commanded certain persons of Thamud to kill the children so as to prevent one of them from growing up and killing the she-camel:
According to Hajjaj- Ibn Jurayj: When Salih told the eight evildoers that a boy would be born at whose hands they would be destroyed, they said, "What do you command us?" He said, "I command you to kill THEM" (that is their male children). SO THEY KILLED THEM except one... (The History of Al-Tabari: Prophets and Patriarchs, translated by William M. Brinner [State University of New York Press (SUNY), 1987], Volume II, p. 43; capital and underline emphasis ours)
More in the next post.
This is my second post to the spaghetti eating gorilla's boldfaced lies.
More importantly, Zaatari either is not aware of or is trying to hide the fact that the Quran itself confirms the Divine approval for these OT wars, especially that of Saul and the Amalekites:
Hast thou not Turned thy vision to the Chiefs of the Children of Israel after (the time of) Moses? They said to a prophet (That was) among them: "Appoint for us a king, that we May fight in the cause of God." He said: "Is it not possible, if ye were commanded to fight, that that ye will not fight?" They said: "How could we refuse to fight in the cause of God, seeing that we were turned out of our homes and our families?" but when they were commanded to fight, they turned back, except a small band among them. But God Has full knowledge of those who do wrong. Their Prophet said to them: "God hath appointed Talut as king over you." They said: "How can he exercise authority over us when we are better fitted than he to exercise authority, and he is not even gifted, with wealth in abundance?" He said: "God hath Chosen him above you, and hath gifted him abundantly with knowledge and bodily prowess: God Granteth His authority to whom He pleaseth. God careth for all, and He knoweth all things." And (further) their Prophet said to them: "A Sign of his authority is that there shall come to you the Ark of the covenant, with (an assurance) therein of security from your Lord, and the relics left by the family of Moses and the family of Aaron, carried by angels. In this is a symbol for you if ye indeed have faith." When Talut set forth with the armies, he said: "God will test you at the stream: if any drinks of its water, He goes not with my army: Only those who taste not of it go with me: A mere sip out of the hand is excused." but they all drank of it, except a few. When they crossed the river,- He and the faithful ones with him,- they said: "This day We cannot cope with Goliath and his forces." but those who were convinced that they must meet God, said: "How oft, by God's will, Hath a small force vanquished a big one? God is with those who steadfastly persevere. When they advanced to meet Goliath and his forces, they prayed: "Our Lord! Pour out constancy on us and make our steps firm: Help us against those that reject faith." By God's will they routed them; and David slew Goliath; and God gave him power and wisdom and taught him whatever (else) He willed. And did not God Check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief: But God is full of bounty to all the worlds. S. 2:246-251 Y. Ali
The Quran recounts the story of the people of Israel asking the prophet Samuel for a king, Saul’s appointment as a king, Saul’s wars, and David killing Goliath (cf. 1 Samuel 8-17). What is interesting about all this is that even though the Quranic narration presupposes the biblical account of God’s commission to wipe out the Amalekites it nowhere condemns this Divine decree. It does not say that Saul killing women and children was an evil thing or that the Israelites tampered with the story since this isn’t how it happened; nor does it deny that these things did happen. Its very mention in the Quran without any qualification presupposes that the author of the Quran had absolutely no problem with these wars since he believed that God sanctioned them. So why does Zaatari go against the teachings of his own book (as false as it is) and attack the Bible for something with which the Quran implicitly attests?
More in the third post.
This is my third post.
There is more. Note what this next report says regarding Muhammad’s view of the prophet Joshua’s battles against the enemies of God:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "A prophet amongst the prophets carried out a holy military expedition, so he said to his followers, 'Anyone who has married a woman and wants to consummate the marriage, and has not done so yet, should not accompany me; nor should a man who has built a house but has not completed its roof; nor a man who has sheep or she camels and is waiting for the birth of their young ones.' So, the prophet carried out the expedition and when he reached that town at the time or nearly at the time of the 'Asr prayer, he said to the sun, 'O sun! You are under Allah's Order and I am under Allah's Order. O Allah! Stop it (i.e. the sun) from setting.' It was stopped till Allah made him victorious. Then he collected the booty and the fire came to burn it, but it did not burn it. He said (to his men), 'Some of you have stolen something from the booty. So one man from every tribe should give me a pledge of allegiance by shaking hands with me.' (They did so and) the hand of a man got stuck over the hand of their prophet. Then that prophet said (to the man), 'The theft has been committed by your people. So all the persons of your tribe should give me the pledge of allegiance by shaking hands with me.' The hands of two or three men got stuck over the hand of their prophet and he said, "You have committed the theft.' Then they brought a head of gold like the head of a cow and put it there, and the fire came and consumed the booty. The Prophet added: Then Allah saw our weakness and disability, so he made booty legal for us." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 353)
Here Muhammad conflates several biblical stories, namely, Moses' instruction in Deuteronomy 20:1-9, and Joshua’s expeditions against Ai and the king of Jerusalem (cf. Joshua 7 and 10). These are the very expeditions where God commanded Joshua and the Israelites to wipe out everything that breathes! Hence, if this hadith is to be accepted as reliable, and Sunnis like Zaatari do believe that it is authentic since it comes from the sahih collection of al-Bukhari, then this again shows that Muhammad had no problems with God’s orders to the Israelites to annihilate everything that breathes, including women, children and livestock. So why should Zaatari have a problem?
More to come.
Here is my fourth post.
Zaatari also tries to argue that in Islam those babies that are killed will go to heaven, which is either evidence of his severe ignorance of the Quran or another lie aimed at deceiving the readers. In the first place, there is not a single verse in the Quran which says all infants that die go to Paradise, so we challenge Zaatari to produce a verse to the contrary.
Furthermore according to the so-called sound ahadith even Muhammad himself didn’t know whether the children of believers or unbelievers would go to hell or not:
‘A’isha, the mother of the believers, said that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was called to lead the funeral prayer of a child of the Ansar. I said: Allah’s Messenger, there is happiness for this child who is a bird from the birds of Paradise for it committed no sin nor has he reached the age when one can commit sin. He said: 'A'isha, per adventure, IT MAY BE OTHERWISE, because God created for Paradise those who are fit for it WHILE THEY WERE YET IN THEIR FATHER’S LOINS and created for Hell those who are to go to Hell. He created them for Hell WHILE THEY WERE YET IN THEIR FATHER'S LOINS. (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6436)
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: No babe is born but upon Fitra. It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist. A person said: Allah’s Messenger, what is your opinion if they were to die before that (before reaching the age of adolescence when they can distinguish between right and wrong)? He said: It is Allah alone Who knows what they would be doing. (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)
Abu Huraira reported from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) many ahadith and one amongst them is that he is reported to have said: An infant is born according to his (true) nature. It is his parents who make him a Jew, a Christian, just as a she-camel gives birth to its young ones. Do you find any deficiency in their limbs? You cut their ears (i. e. after birth). They (the Companions of the Holy Prophet) said: What is your opinion about him who dies in infancy? Thereupon Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: It is Allah alone Who knows best what they would be doing. (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6428)
Abu Huraira reported that Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) was asked about the children of the polytheists who die young. Thereupon Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: It is Allah Who knows what they would be doing. (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6432)
Muhammad clearly stated that he didn’t know whether the children would go to paradise or to hell on the grounds that Allah may have destined such infants to hell! It seems that Zaatari knows more than his own prophet did on this subject.
This is the fifth section of my reply to gorilla's lies.
Zaatari also manages to contradict himself in the process since he writes:
When Allah destroys a place with a natural disaster the deaths of the inhabitants is almost instant and feeling not much pain. Secondly, yes some women and kids are among the dead, however so in Islam babies automatically go to heaven! So hence when Allah destroys a town, and babies are killed, the babies go straight to heaven which is much better than this world, hence the babies have a free ride you could say. They don’t have to grow up and do all things us believers have to do to enter heaven, the baby gets to heaven just on the fact that he is a child. So hence there is no wrong in that, unlike the Bible where babies are killed and sent to hell, hence they never really had a chance to go to heaven.
But then in the very next paragraph he says:
Secondly, Allah did not destroy a town or city until there was no hope in saving them, and the ones who did repent to Allah were warned to leave the city to avoid being killed. So the ones who did get killed were the ones who simply did not heed Allah’s warning. Allah then punished the ones who did not believe, however so this still cannot even be slightly compared to the brutal ness of the OT. Allah didn’t send armies of men killing women and children; he just sent a natural disaster.
Did Allah kill those who didn’t heed the warning or did he also kill infants who had no way to heed the warning as well? If he did kill the infants then Zaatari lies when he says that Allah punished those who did not believe since he even killed infants who had no way of possibly believing!
In fact, the supposed sound ahadith proclaim that when Allah decides to destroy or kill a people he does so indiscriminately:
Narrated Ibn ‘Umar: Allah’s Apostle said, “If Allah sends punishment upon a nation then it befalls upon the WHOLE population INDISCRIMINATELY and then they will be resurrected (and judged) according to their deeds.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 88, Number 224)
Here is another English version of this particular narration:
XVIII. When Allah sends down a punishment on a people
6691. Hamza ibn ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Umar related that he heard Ibn ‘Umar say, “The Messenger of Allah said, ‘When Allah sends down a punishment on a people, the punishment will strike ALL THOSE WHO ARE AMONG THEM, and then they will be resurrected commensurate with their actions.’” (Aisha Bewley, The Sahih Collection of al-Bukhari, 96. Book of Trials)
Thus, Zaatari’s false prophet clearly taught that Allah doesn’t spare anyone from the punishment and destruction which he sends upon a people!
Moreover, Zaatari’s claim that the death of the women and children is not too painful, but instant, contradicts the Quran:
Such is the seizing of thy Lord, when He seizes the cities that are evildoing; surely His seizing IS PAINFUL, TERRIBLE. S. 11:102 Arberry
Contrary to Zaatari, the Quran says that the punishment that Allah brings upon the cities, which includes women and children, is deliberately painful and violent.
Now here is the link to that article:
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/zaatri_amalikites.htm
And here are a few more links where I implode that lie that the Quran or the Sunna forbid the killing of women and children:
http://answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/rebuttals/zawadi/inconsistent1.html
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Menj/asma_afak2.htm
Poor pussycat. The more he opens his pagan mouth to spew his spaghetti, the more he ends up humiliating himself.
Time to abandon and condemn your false prophet and false god, and turn to your Lord Jesus Christ, Muhammad's God and Judge.
Sam Shamoun:
I challenge you in September to debate me on:
1- Morality in Islam and the Bible.
2- Is Muhammad a True Prophet.
Forget defending the Bible debate, because you're too much of a coward to do it.
Are you up to the challenge? In fact, NAME THE TIME AND DATE ON PALTALK IF YOU'D LIKE, and we can even do it there.
I'll demonstrate how full of nonsense and empty tantrums you are.
Okie dokie? :)
Take care,
Osama
Like they used to say in the High School days:
WHEN YOU ENTER A FIGHT, FINISH IT!
And I want to finish the score between me and you, Sam Shamoun.
So, I am willing to debate YOU AND ONLY YOU any 2 to 4 debates of your 100% choosing!! On paltalk or through George. I don't care.
Are you up to it?
Osama Abdallah
Osama...you knwo full well that the West consists of liberal, secular governments and worldviews - where people like Robert Spencer is banned from entering England. Why do muslims insist on pointing to the immorality of secular, darwinistic governments in an attempt to implicate Judeo-Christian values?
@ OSAMA:
Quote:
"You tell me embrace Jesus. I already have Christ as my LORD and Messiah (my Christ). But he is not my Creator, nor could he create a little bug without the permission and authority of GOD AlMIGHTY"
In your statement you are unable to use the word Saved & Saviour, which I used to ask you to come to Jesus, but you did use the word Lord, and this is what Jesus would say to you, Because you deny His Diety & Death:
Matthew 7:21-23
"Not everyone who says to me, 'LORD,LORD,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
And there is more but mull over that!
Regarding a couple of points made by Osama.
[1] 6- "The House of GOD Almighty will be built in the desert of Kedar (Arabia)."
In the Bible, the 'The House of God' actually means the 'Household of God' - the body of Christ, the Church. It does not mean a physical building.
"my kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now my kingdom is not from here." John 18:36
“Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my foot stool. Where is the house that you will build me? And where is the place of my rest? For all those things my hand has made, and all those things exist,” says the Lord.” Isaiah 66:1- 2
If anything, the Islamic 'House of God’ built in the desert would be the 'House of Satan' since he is “…the god [ruler] of this world…” John 14:30
[2] 9- "The Jews in the New Testament were expecting two: (1) The Messiah; (2) The Prophet."
“The Messiah” and “The Prophet” are one and the same. The Jews are still waiting for the Messiah to appear for the first time.
And in a following comment he says:
“You tell me embrace Jesus. I already have Christ as my Lord and Messiah (my Christ)”
But, “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be loyal to one and despise the other.” Matthew 6:24
It’s either Mohammad and the god of the Koran, or it is Christ. It cannot be both, since,
“What accord has Christ with Belial?” 2Corinthians 6:15
"But I am just amazed at how weak your points are. This is perhaps why you need to rely on loud tantrum and screams to fortify them.
Very pathetic indeed."
Haha, I think Osama's a bit confused. More than usual anyway.
Yeah, he still is trying to point put blame on the OT laws (saying it condones killing children) while trying to site the OT as the root of the Quaran. He just can't see the hypocracy of what he's doing. Yet he accuses others of double standards.
Also, I like how he says temporary marriages for money was implimented to prevent prostitution (wihtout showing how Muta is any different than prostitution). Wait... :P
Osama, you still owe me an apology for saying I want hate crimes to happen against Muslims. I know you can read this, but you are intentionally ignoring me. What a coward.
Osama, you said,
"YOU SAY CHRIST NEVER DENIED TO BE GOD. I say that is a bold lie from Hell! He said Why do you keep calling me Good? No one is Good, except GOD Alone."
Assuming your interpretation of Mark 10:18 is correct, then what are you going to do with John 17:5?
“And now O Father, glorify me together with yourself, with the glory which I had with you before the world was."
Rather, the man in verse 17 who addressed Jesus as “Good Teacher” had no idea that Jesus was God in the flesh but thought he was just a man, a sinner.
So Jesus rightly corrected him by saying “Why do you call me good?” [if you think I am only a man] “No one is good but God alone.”
But the Islamic interpretation stares at “Why do you call me good?” “No one is good but God alone.” and only sees "Why do you call me God?" "No one is God but God alone."
Osama
Don't you find it strange that none of the usual Muslim blogs have posted any of your debates?
Yahya Snow made a half hearted attempt to defend you in your debate with Dr Delcour however he has not posted any of your debates. Neither has Paul Williams, or MDI.
If you did half as good as you think you did, don't you think they would of posted at least one of the debates?
Osama, you already got HUMILIATED AND DISGRACED twice on the topic of whether Muhammad is a true prophet where I proved that your prophet and your fake god are gross immoral pigs.
Secondly, instead of running away like a pussycat if we ever do debate again it will one the Bible, the topic you false accused me of running away from. So stop stuffing your face with spaghetti and be a man and show up in September in California so I can pulverize you again and prove to everyone why you are a buffoon who should never ever debate again.
Now pussycat, ge back to your spaghetti and stone smooching like the good little pagan clown that you are.
Its amazing and said to see how muslims keep clinging to the Old testament to prove christianity wrong. Muslims don't realise that something epic happened that day on the cross hence we don't kill sinners by our hand. Grace and truth came with Christ.
Let me guess, Jesus wasn't really crucified. Christians were conned into believing this conjecture.
Is there any turban swirling hypocrite who can bring ONE witness who can confirm that Muhammad indeed got his revelation from his allah. Forget the four witness rule..bring only ONE.
allah told gabriel, to tell muhammad who told the scribes..now there's a quran for you.
murtadd.wordpress.com
BTW, how befitting that you mentioned high school since your debates and posts show that you even haven't graduated kindergarten yet. Time to stop playing with your dolls and blocks and grow up. And it is also time to eat something other than spaghetti, pussycat, since it isn't helping your mental health.
Alexander the great was a muslim? What a joke.
Forgot to repeat my condition in my open challenge to you on PALTALK or anywhere, which I have captured and uploaded on my website under your section:
**** Make sure your date is at least two weeks in advanced, and it has to be on a weekend.
Name your topics and your dates, and let's see settle the score here with you, because you're too noisy.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Hello Sam:
One thing is to think somebody's arguments are not convincing and saying why but another is to insult needlessly,that is not Christian.
Even if Osama has accused you falsely one has to have a sense of humor,shrug it off.I have been in situations where somebody made a wild-eyed accusation against me but after 5 minutes I have almost forgot it.
I have learned that in this life almost anything is possible.Maybe tomorrow William Craig or Gary Habermas will become atheists,so one has to be,as the saying goes in Spanish:"Hope for the best,but be prepared for the worst."
Sam Shamoun's new title: Noise Pollution! LOOOLLL :)))
Minoria, instead of being selective in your referencing the Bible, why not actually study the verses which show there is a time and place to insult persistent blasphemers who have no shame in mocking the living God.
Chew on the following examples.
What makes this rather sad is that this very hypocrite and liar, Zawadi, knows of all this and yet attacks me when I respond to these very same blasphemers in like manner, in a manner which they deserve, one which is in line with the teachings of the prophets and apostles. After all, the Bible does say that God mocks the unbelievers:
"Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the LORD and against his Anointed One. ‘Let us break their chains,’ they say, and throw off their fetters.’ The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them. Psalm 2:1-4
"but the Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming." Psalm 37:13
"Wisdom cries aloud in the street, in the markets she raises her voice; at the head of the noisy streets she cries out; at the entrance of the city gates she speaks: ‘How long, O simple ones, will you love being simple? How long will scoffers delight in their scoffing and fools hate knowledge? If you turn at my reproof, behold, I will pour out my spirit to you; I will make my words known to you. Because I have called and you refused to listen, have stretched out my hand and no one has heeded, because you have ignored all my counsel and would have none of my reproof, I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when terror strikes you," Proverbs 1:20-26
This, perhaps, explains the prophet Elijah’s mocking
"So Ahab sent to all the people of Israel and gathered the prophets together at Mount Carmel. And Elijah came near to all the people and said, ‘How long will you go limping between two different opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him.’ And the people did not answer him a word. Then Elijah said to the people, ‘I, even I only, am left a prophet of the LORD, but Baal’s prophets are 450 men. Let two bulls be given to us, and let them choose one bull for themselves and cut it in pieces and lay it on the wood, but put no fire to it. And I will prepare the other bull and lay it on the wood and put no fire to it. And you call upon the name of your god, and I will call upon the name of the LORD, and the God who answers by fire, he is God.’ And all the people answered, ‘It is well spoken.’ Then Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, ‘Choose for yourselves one bull and prepare it first, for you are many, and call upon the name of your god, but put no fire to it.’ And they took the bull that was given them, and they prepared it and called upon the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying, ‘O Baal, answer us!’ But there was no voice, and no one answered. And they limped around the altar that they had made. And at noon Elijah MOCKED THEM, saying, ‘Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, OR HE IS RELIEVING HIMSELF, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.’ And they cried aloud and cut themselves after their custom with swords and lances, until the blood gushed out upon them. And as midday passed, they raved on until the time of the offering of the oblation, but there was no voice. No one answered; no one paid attention." 1 Kings 18:20-29
Some of the prophets even called people stupid and foolish!
"For my people are foolish; they know me not; they are stupid children; they have no understanding. They are ‘wise’—in doing evil! But how to do good they know not." Jeremiah 4:22
"They are both stupid and foolish; the instruction of idols is but wood! … Every man is stupid and without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols, for his images are false, and there is no breath in them." Jeremiah 10:8, 14
Here is more for you to chew on, Minoria, so you stop being a one verse charlie and start being a complete Christian.
Moreover, the Lord Jesus himself and his apostles did not hesitate to insult those who deserved it:
"When Jesus had finished speaking, a Pharisee invited him to eat with him; so he went in and reclined at the table. But the Pharisee, noticing that Jesus did not first wash before the meal, was surprised. Then the Lord said to him, ‘Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? But give what is inside the dish to the poor, and everything will be clean for you. Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone. Woe to you Pharisees, because you love the most important seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces. Woe to you, because you are like unmarked graves, which men walk over without knowing it.’ One of the experts in the law answered him, ‘Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us also.’ Jesus replied, ‘And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them. Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your forefathers who killed them. So you testify that you approve of what your forefathers did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. Because of this, God in his wisdom said, "I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute." Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all. Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.’ When Jesus left there, the Pharisees and the teachers of the law began to oppose him fiercely and to besiege him with questions, waiting to catch him in something he might say." Luke 11:37-54
Even though one of the teachers of the law informed the Lord that his comments were hurtful and insulting he still went ahead to rebuke them rather harshly.
And here is even more for Minoria.
The Apostle Paul called the Judaizers, or Jews who were preaching a false Gospel, dogs:
"Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh. For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh—" Philippians 3:2-3
Moreover, here is how this blessed Apostle treated a sorcerer who opposed and sought to hinder the spread of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ:
"When they had gone through the whole island as far as Paphos, they came upon a certain magician, a Jewish false prophet named Bar-Jesus. He was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, a man of intelligence, who summoned Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God. But Elymas the magician (for that is the meaning of his name opposed them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith. But Saul, who was also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said, ‘You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making crooked the straight paths of the Lord? And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you will be blind and unable to see the sun for a time.’ Immediately mist and darkness fell upon him, and he went about seeking people to lead him by the hand. Then the proconsul believed, when he saw what had occurred, for he was astonished at the teaching of the Lord." Acts 13:6-12
And Peter likened apostate and heretical Christians to animals, dogs and swine:
"But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish… They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: ‘A dog returns to its vomit,’ and, ‘A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.’" 2 Peter 2:12, 19-22
In this the apostles were imitating the language of the Lord Jesus:
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6
Final post for Minoria:
What all of these examples prove is that it is simply not true that mocking and insulting one’s opponent is unbiblical or unchristian. Even though the Holy Bible says that Christians generally should be gracious in the way they speak, and not return insult for insult:
"Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, ‘Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.’ To the contrary, ‘if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.’ Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." Romans 12:17-21
"Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person." Colossians 4:6
Yet, as the above examples demonstrate, it also allows for exceptions to this general rule of Christian conduct. Otherwise we would have to believe that Jesus, the apostles, and the prophets were all acting in an unchristian manner!
As the book of Ecclesiastes states:
"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven: a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain, a time to search and a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak, a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace." Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
So Minoria stop pretending to be a mature Christian, and stop being a one verse charlie, and actually stop some time addressing ALL OF WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS concerning the treatment of disbelievers. And if you don't like it Minoria, then please stop reading my posts and go somewhere else.
And finally, PLEASE DO NOT FLOOD THE COMMENTS SECTION WITH YOUR IRRELEVANT ARTICLES OR ARGUMENTS WHICH HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE POINT OF THE BLOG SPOT. I was going to say something about this very bad habit of yours, so I think the time has come for me to say it.
Take care.
Notice everyone how Sam Shamoun is too scared now to debate Morality in the Bible and Islam.
Also, the reason why I posted my text messages with George in the Lewis debate is because I wanted to expose his lies and denials.
I would love for him to honor his word (a coward and a hypocrite he is indeed) and debate "Is the Bible the True Word of GOD Almighty?" And Shamoun, I'll take on Morality in Islam and the Bible to further prove that you're no more than noise pollution.
Osama
Can you please spell out all those names of pre Islamic Muslims?
The Mushlites and all the others you named.
Thanks
"Osama
Can you please spell out all those names of pre Islamic Muslims?
The Mushlites and all the others you named.
Thanks"
Please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1022.msg3410.html#msg3410.
In the text of this link, you'll also see detailed refutation to one of ShamSwimmingPool's articles on this subject :).
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Osama was destroyed during the this debate badly.
As I have followed Sam Shamoun's debate over the past years, I have noticed that he has become more and more solid as a debater and experience plays a major factor.
Sam in his early stages of debating he was once the Michael Jordan of the 80's. Destroying and conquering everything in his path.
Now he is the Jordan of the 90's while debating, he knows how to slowly but surely crush his opponent, very analytical, fully aware of the opponents weakness, sticking different angles, anticipating the opponents rebuttals and most importantly controling the tempo of the debate.
Wow! Talk about a person with SERIOUS mental issues!
Here is a guy who got utterly pulverized and humiliated in four debates, exposing Muhammad to complete public shame and disgrace, who couldn't defend the utter moral filth and garbage or the irrational teachings of his prophet, a person whom even Muslims despite and who can't get any of them to show up for any of his debates, and he still has the audacity to talk tough behind his computer screen?
Listen pussycat, you are a disgrace to Islam and to rational discourse and the only reason I would ever debate you is for the purpose of humiliating you for having a big fat mouth which even your spaghetti slurping can't shut up.
Like I said, if you have the guts to get humiliated one more time I will galdly stoop down to your level for a final time on the topic WHICH YOU ACCUSED ME OF RUNNING FROM, namely, Is the Bible True Word of God. Show up in September so that both Anthony and I can pulverize you again.
Until then, you can keep whining and making excuses for your pathetic debate performances, even though NO ONE IS BUYING IT!
Poor pussycat, it must be lonely to have no support and to be all on your own in your rather successful quest to destroy Islam and Muhammad.
Anyway, I am done entertaining pussycat. Time for me to get back to my writing projects and teaching.
Lord bless.
Hello brethren!
Congratulation Br. Sam Shamoun. In GOD we trust whenever one of JESUS' soldiers is debating. I am very sorry for pr. Osama BUFFOON Abdullah. Br. Sam you did us not good at all. You destroyed the last standing man muslims hoped on; that means we are not going to have debate for a long while Br. I had challenged him online sometimes back about surat 18 aya 86 with the quotation of sunna Abu Dawud 3991 which he ran away from it. Anyway I was so happy with your gestures of love you showed to him and the proclaim invitation you made to follow JESUS CHRIST. Surat 3 Aya 55 will support that.
He is asking for another debate about the HOLY BIBLE in order to make up the ground he lost in the last debate. One thing he is failing to realize is that: he did not only lost ground but he lost even his personality. Regarding the debate; he doesn't have the true WORDS OF YAHWEH therefore I have one question for him: pr. Osama BUFFOON Abdullah base on which material you are going to debate? Please Osama my brother come to CHRIST JESUS. I had made this call in the past and I am reiterating it again,please come to JESUS CHRIST.
Br. Sam, I 'd like to tell you that you have a big audience here in Europe please and we would love to follow some of your debate even though it is too late for us. Please I personally need your paltalk ID in order to follow your debates. You can also let us know whenever you are debating please Br.
Thanks to you all for the job well done.
Noise Pollution,
Are you like giving birth behind your computer? Man, you're like bull-goring every person you run into on this board, including Christians. LOOOLLL. Why don't you chil you dumb loser, and learn to accept people, in general.
Man, you crack me up, Noise Pollution :).
Osama Abdallah
pr. Osama BUFFOON Abdullah,
please tell me something here if islam is a good religion how come its fruits are all rotten. Br. Sam said during the debate by their fruits they shall be known. This is my point and please do not get me wrong: "All muslims are not terrorist but All terrorist are muslims". Why is that so? Please explain. Dr. David said in "JESUS or muhammed" at ABN " Most muslims live a better life than their prophet"
@Osama Abdallah
Osama why have you blocked me from making a comment on your Youtube video concerning your debate with Anthony Rogers?
Was my previous comment too truthful for your taste? Please let me know and I will tone down for you so I do not hurt your feelings next time.
Like everyone here, we all want you to come to the knowledge of the truth. Infact I respect you for having the courage to debate our top apologists, but don't I have the right to comment on the debate?
By blocking me, you have displayed a lack of fortitude and character because you are not able to face an inconvenient truth.
Wow pussycat is complaining about me rebuking my Christian brother in love? I guess pussycat forgot that I still have all the emails where he, Nadir and Jalal are cussing each other out, and even threatening to kill each, all in the name of Allah and his messenger!
Here is the link for everyone to read those exchanges for themselves: http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/zawadi_puberty3.htm
See what following muhammad and slurping too much spaghetti has done poor pussycat's integrity and brain?
For the record, I think that Osama would have destroyed Nadir in a fight.
I don't know, Nadir did sound very dangerous, and it almost seemed that Osama was trying to run away or find someone to step in and fight on his behalf.
"pr. Osama BUFFOON Abdullah,
please tell me something here if islam is a good religion how come its fruits are all rotten. Br. Sam said during the debate by their fruits they shall be known. This is my point and please do not get me wrong: "All muslims are not terrorist but All terrorist are muslims". Why is that so? Please explain. Dr. David said in "JESUS or muhammed" at ABN " Most muslims live a better life than their prophet""
Tarek or Tareq (my uncle's name is Tareq),
I know that you're a Middle Easter Christian who is ready to blow up from hate towards Muslims; like Shamoun here. Your hate has blinded you and made you an easy target to be fooled and used by the zionists, who are using you. And they are the real terrorists.
9/11 is a lie. Boston is a lie. Woolich is a lie. Did you know that 2 FBI agents, who were lead investigators of the Boston lie, were just killed by the FBI?
Visit this thorough section to see all of the lies of the zionists. Islam and Muslims are innocent from the zionist lies:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/911_is_the_biggest_lie.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/911_is_the_biggest_lie.htm#boston
Osama Abdallah
Osama forgot to add....
"...and we did not land on the moon."
Osama,
You talked about the fruits of Islam. What about intolerance? Why can you hold public debates and say whatever you want (about anything) in any non-Muslim country while it would be suicide to do so in any Muslim country?
Arrow
Hi Sam & Anthony,
Personally, I tend to agree partly with Minoria here. I understand that Osama deserves to be mocked - which I think he should be to some extant. But I guess it is just an overkill if every time want to refer to Osama you have to use buffoon, pussycat, gorilla etc. Name calling, once or twice might be ok but if you use it always it gets in the way of substance that you would like to convey in your responses. It is not only Osama who is reading your responses but others as well. And regarding the verses you quoted to support your case such as Jesus rebuking Pharisees, he did not rebuke them by calling them names everytime he addressed them.
It is clear that Osama lost badly and he is putting up a bravado here which is obvious for anyone to see. I don't see a need to repeat how badly he lost or got pulverized. I also don't think your insulting Osama is having any impact on him but it seems to kinda drag you down to his level. It makes you look bad, silly and gives an impression that you are boastful and angry. You guys did a great job and it is a shame if those reading your responses get a false impression of your character. I guess there is a wisdom in saying that if a dog barks at you you don't bark back at it!
Btw, I don't see David Wood doing any of that. I wonder what is his opinion on this.
John 8:24, I do not want to turn this thread into a debate on whether it is right to mock and insult, since you are mistaken when you claimed that Jesus didn't call people names. You gotta be joking with me my brother.
Calling people brood of vipers, white washed sepulchers, dogs, pigs, isn't "name calling"? Seriously? Ok then, I won't name call but I will simply start calling Osama a son of the devil, a dog, a swine, a brood of viper etc. Perhaps then Christians will truly appreciate my approach.
Moreover, as far as people reading these exchanges are concerned, they are simply going to have to study what the Holy Bible teaches as a whole on this vitally important subject.
Listen brother, I appreciate your concern but I strongly do disagree with your position here. So let us agree to disagree my brother.
However, you are right on one thing. Nothing I can say could ever make an impact on Osama since he is too demonized to even feel any shame for his wicked and vile tactics.
Anyway my precious brother, Lord bless you and all you do. And I will do my best not to address Osama anymore.
Sam
Wow! Osama is so deluded that:
> he can't understand that a god who makes something "moral" (i.e. prostitution)by calling it something else doesn't make it moral... and that god proves it wasn't moral because he abbrogated it (in some haddith because apparently the haddith can abbrogate the Quran)... or that the little god if Islam has a PC view of morality that changes with the wind... bowing down to the urges of man...
> in the video he accused Sam of losing his temper when he was the one who clearly lost it
> anything he finds in the Bible can be interpreted in any way he chooses as long as it supports the Quran
> anything in the Quran or hadith that sounds bad (like kill the unbelievers where ever you find them) means something else
> using distortions and lies to prove his point makes him right... i.e. he can prove that Islam is the truth by lying...
And I especially love how he refutes Sam. He was so successful that Sam could not refute Osama's point... (by yelling and keeping Sam from being able to make a sentence as he used his Islamic method of refuting him he was victorious)
In the end, doesn't his behavior and also Nadir's prove the truth of Islam? It is all about being a bully to all... silence the opposition somehow... subjugate them... It seems to me God gave us a way to know who has the truth... it seems to me that Gen 16:12 still rings true today... what more proof is needed? Truly, by its fruit, we can tell...
"... I also don't think your insulting Osama is having any impact on him but it seems to kinda drag you down to his level. It makes you look bad, silly and gives an impression that you are boastful and angry. You guys did a great job and it is a shame if those reading your responses get a false impression of your character. I guess there is a wisdom in saying that if a dog barks at you you don't bark back at it!"
It's amazing how arrogant and deceitful many of the christians are. Who is insulting with a barrage of hateful insults here? Me or Sam? Yet, you say that he's going down to my level?
Lies and hypocrisy is a way of life for you. I said it several times before. I grant some are very good people. But man, when it comes to be True, your middle eastern christians take the back seat.
Everything that comes out of your mouth is poison and lies. And from your English, I can tell you're probably a coptic. You turn into rabid dogs when you come to America. Don't you? Like your pregnant friend here who's giving birth with screams and hatered, shamfoon, you too are more than ready to throw honesty out the window just to do injustice to a Muslim.
Like I advised Anthony Rogers before, I advise all American and Western Christians, do not stoop down to these people's levels in dishonesty and hate. Be higher than them, and don't fear their race card BS if they play it on you.
Osama Abdallah
"Calling people brood of vipers, white washed sepulchers, dogs, pigs, isn't "name calling"? Seriously? Ok then, I won't name call but I will simply start calling Osama a son of the devil, a dog, a swine, a brood of viper etc. Perhaps then Christians will truly appreciate my approach."
Shamfoon,
LOL, I love that you brought up son of the devil. So this Biblical term that you want to use, which comes from John 8, would it mean my biological father is the devil, or would simply mean that I worship the devil, or that I am a servant of the devil?
So Jesus being called "Son of GOD", like the Holy Quran Says, means nothing more than a Righteous Servant Raised to Honor. And sure, Christ being Created from the Word and speaking through the Holy Spirit is certain the Highest. But he remains not GOD.
Now as to your garbage, I encourage you to continue, because I want everyone here to see just how fake and rotten you and your filthy followers, or gangs or thugs I should say, are. Plus, it further proves that you're ready to blow up, because you simply lost.
Osama Abdallah
Brother Sam, Anthony, Lewis, and Edward: you completely destroyed Osama your debates. That much is evident. It was so one-sided, to call it total annihilation is an understatement.
A few points to note:
1. Osama conceded that Jesus Christ is the perfect manifestation of God's attributes, and that He possesses them all.
I don't need to preach to the choir here, but for Osama to pretty much attribute eternality, immutability, omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence, transcendance, divine sovereignty, perfect wisdom, and on it goes is obviously a complete and utter violation of Islamic theology to the point one wonders, does Osama even care anymore?
He has basically stated that Allah is not unique. That Jesus Christ is Just like Him in every sense.
2. Osama was foaming at the mouth just like his false prophet Muhammad. The fact that he had to interject so many times in the debate is an obvious concession that he was on the wrong team (himself).
3. His cries out in the Lewis debate "Show me animal sex" was a freudian slip perhaps?
4. The fact that he claimed to have won all his debates and that you guys were too scared to post them, shows that he has not only lost touch with reality, it's quite likely he never was in touch with it in the first place.
5. His fetish for spaghetti clearly marked the fact that he had no prepared responses.
6. The fact that Other Muslims refuse to comment on the debate, including Yahya Snow, who linked to an ABN program rather than the debate itself on the very page which says "Sam Shamoun debates Osama Abdallah on whether Muhammad is a true prophet" is very telling of how completely embarrassed the Ummah is with Osama.
7. I would beg that if any future debates with Osama (shakes head) do in fact go ahead, that you ensure Osama signs an agreement that a) He will not abuse the debate format, and actually cross examine during cross examination time and b) He will keep his filthy, rabid, morbid, foaming mouth shut when it's not his turn to speak. Failure to comply will result in a termination of the debate resulting in a win by default to his opponent.
8. Great kudos for keeping respectful and patient during the course of the debate. Your demeanor totally exposed the darkness of Osama's heart by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.
9. Thank you for your continued efforts by God's grace to teach us and build up the Body of Christ by exercising the gifts given you by our Lord.
10. God bless you, keep you, sustain you, and grace you with the riches and treasures of our gracious Triune God, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. May He continue to supply you with the grace to continue fighting the good fight of the faith.
Love you brothers!
But man, when it comes to be True, your middle eastern christians take the back seat.
Osama, like all Muslims, are so accustomed to seeing Mid-Eastern Christians a persecuted, fearful and subdued minority. It vexes him to see them liberated in the west.
"Brother Sam, Anthony, Lewis, and Edward: you completely destroyed Osama your debates. That much is evident. It was so one-sided, to call it total annihilation is an understatement."
LOOOLLLL!! Are you sure there are no lies in this statement? :)
Yes, he is sure.
(Thanks brother Royalson.)
Osama,You just wont admitt that your religion is kinda of decieving you! You will fight and fight! Anyway i Dont Blame you,even satanists doont admitt anything they hear about the devil.....but its a gOod thing for them they end up asking for help and Jesus saves them...but you??i dont know.....
Hello Sam:
Just read your comments,no problem I won't comment any more about a different subject that the one at had,though really that means new information would not appear that could make a difference in somebody's life.So be it.
Now as for insulting one's opponents certainly Jesus was not doing it all the time.Only rarely.
1.If I remember rightly it was ONLY THREE TIMES in 3 YEARS.
2.And PAUL did it like only ONCE in 30 YEARS.
3.And PETER only ONCE in 30 YEARS.
If one were to imitate Jesus then one can not be insulting Osama or Zawadi or Sami all the time.
What would Jesus do?Would he do that?That is the goal,to be like him.It is logic itself.
Minoria, I have to say brother your response is rather sad since you are doing nothing more than argue from silence, which is a logical fallacy. How do you know that Peter and Paul used strong and harsh language ONLY ONCE? Can you please quote the chapter and verse which states this? In fact, the example I gave you from Paul refutes you since i showed that at least on two occasions Paul used very harsh language against his opponents.
Furthermore, who said anything about Jesus doing it all the time? This is nothing but a straw man. The fact is THAT HE DID IT, and that's what counts. And could you so kind as to quote the explicit biblical evidence which says that he only did so three times in 30 years, especially when the Bible itself says Jesus did many things which have not been written (cf. John 20:30-31; 21:25). So you need to stop arguing from silence and assuming things which are not there in the biblical texts.
Moreover, if one were to imitate Jesus THEN HE HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO INSULT PERSISTENT BLASPHEMERS SINCE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT JESUS DID! So you are simply wrong when you that Christians cannot insult Osama, Bassam or Sami if they were to imitate Jesus. Therefore, instead of selectively choosing only those texts that you happen to like and use them to show people what Jesus would do, try quoting ALL WHAT THE GOSPELS SAY concerning how Jesus treated persistent, stiff-necked blasphemers and deceivers so as to give an accurate picture of what Jesus would have done to such folks.
So Minoria, nice try of trying to explain away the mountain of evidence I gave you, but I am sorry to tell you that these texts won't go away, no matter how hard you try to make them go away.
Hopefully, this will be the last post on this subject since I don't want turn this into when is it right to insult someone. Lord bless you.
Hi brother Sam,
Thanks for your response. I think you misread my comment. I did not say that Jesus never "name called" Pharisees. I only pointed that he did not do that >every time< he addressed them. Jesus had so many conversations with the Pharisees all through the gospels but only in one instance he chose to rebuke them openly in such a way. (Imagine Jesus calling Pharisees each time they approached him with a question, "Hey brood of vipers, what have you got?...", "Come, you blind fools, you are toast!...", or "You hypocrites, did you not learn your lesson already?...". That would appear silly and pointless, wouldn't it? )
So I was not saying that one should never mock or insult anyone (though some might argue otherwise - with some good reasoning). I, for one, think that one should only do it when a situation calls for it. But at the least, maybe we can agree that doing it all the time is not only pointless but also an overkill - it makes one look less dignified and takes the focus away from the substance of one's responses. And as you can see, it precipitates into a shouting match where Osama comes back with his own set of insults.
I am happy to note that you do realize that there is no point in engaging with Osama at his level. Sometimes, I seriously think if there is any point in engaging with Osama at ANY level!!! We all know that he is not smart enough to get it. However, I would say, please do engage with Osama to expose the lies (at least for the sake of educating others) but maybe just focus on the substance.
Sam, I would like to add that you are one of the best debaters out there and you are a walking encyclopedia when it comes to the topics related to Islam and Christianity. Thanks for all the work you are doing! Keep up the good work and may God give you added wisdom as you deal with difficult people like Osama!
Hey Osama,
First, I am not a Middle Eastern Christian and I am not a Copt. But I love my Coptic brothers and other brothers from the Middle East! Btw, why are you so upset with Christians from the Middle East? It seems that you are quite bothered by them. Maybe because they know and understand the real Islam unlike the western Christians, who mostly have no clue of Islam.
Nice try to pit me against, Sam, my brother in Christ. I am not going to take the bait.
Osama said: Who is insulting with a barrage of hateful insults here? Me or Sam? Yet, you say that he's going down to my level?
Yes, Sam did insult you but his insults were more factual unlike you calling him Shamfool, Shamfoon, ShamSwimmingPool etc..
To explain, Sam called you pussycat, buffoon and spaghetti eating gorilla. Here are some dictionary definitions for you ( because I guess you are too lazy to look it up ;-) ) :
Pussycat = one that is weak, compliant, or amiable : softy
Buffoon = a gross and usually ill-educated or stupid person
Spaghetti eating Gorilla = very lazy person (well, just made it up ;-).... could not be found in a dictionary!)
Well, pussycat fits you very well because though you tend to act like a tiger your arguments are actually weak. And buffoon is not that wrong description of you because you are very ill-educated in the topics you are supposed to know as a debater and your reponses here leave no doubt about your stupidity. Regarding the spaghetti eating gorilla, all I can say is that you come accross as too lazy (you don't have good work ethics, do you?)
I don't really know what you mean by Shamfoon. Sam is definetly not a fool nor he looks like a swimming pool!
So there you go! Sam's insults were factual but yours were not. Hope you are not too offended by them!
More later...
BTW John 8:24, the reason why I called him that is because he used to call me that all the time. However, he would initially drop the cat and simply go with the first part of the word in our private email exchanges. But in public forums he started calling me pussycat.
However, like I said, I won't engage Osama anymore since there are brothers here who feel that I am being harsh with him, and I don't want to offend my brothers.
Oops forgot to mention this point. If you scroll back, Osama actually called me a gorilla. And the spaghetti comes from his humiliating performance against Eddie Dacloure where all he could say to Dalcour's brilliant case was the word "Spaghetti"!
Hello Sam:
I am glad you stated:
"However, like I said, I won't engage Osama anymore since there are brothers here who feel that I am being harsh with him, and I don't want to offend my brothers."
Here is my view on Jesus and his (Jewish)enemies:
"Moreover, if one were to imitate Jesus THEN HE HAS NO CHOICE BUT TO INSULT PERSISTENT BLASPHEMERS SINCE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT JESUS DID!"
1.The problem is for Muslims or atheists or others what they say is not blasphemy,they are sincere in their beliefs.You do know that Jesus was a JEW debating OTHER JEWS about JUDAISM.
2.It reminds me of the INTRA-CATHOLIC debates of the 20th century between ultra-conservatives,conservatives,moderates,liberals and even radicals( a la Liberation Theology,as espoused by the priest and great poet ERNESTO CARDENAL,Sandinista Minister of Culure) and where accusations of HERESY and even blasphemy,corruption,etc are stated by both sides.
Look at Catholic GARY WILLIS,a liberal Catholic and fascinating writer,whose views clash with those of the OPUS DEI.
I also remember Jesus said to his disciples not to go to the pagans and Samaritans,it was only after the resurrection,in MATTHEW 28,that there was any REAL RELIGIOUS DEBATE with NON-JEWS.Before that the debate was an intra-Jewish affair.
So "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." (Matthew 7:6)in my view can't refer to pigs/dogs=non-Jews.
In fact Philippians 3:2-3/2 Peter 2:12, 19-22 the insults are for members of the SAME GROUP(people in the Jesus Movement).Similar to the disputes between Catholics.
And in ACTS 13:6-12 Paul,a JEW,insults a FELLOW JEW,a false prophet called bar-Jesus,(again the same pattern as with Jesus,TWO JEWS disputing about what a common faith).It is all VERY SIMILAR to the INTRA-CATHOLIC disputes.I noticed that when I read the texts you presented more carefully.
You also said:
"Minoria, I have to say brother your response is rather sad since you are doing nothing more than argue from silence, which is a logical fallacy. How do you know that Peter and Paul used strong and harsh language ONLY ONCE? Can you please quote the chapter and verse which states this? In fact, the example I gave you from Paul refutes you since i showed that at least on two occasions Paul used very harsh language against his opponents."
Well I stated "If I remember rightly" so I was speaking in general,add or subtract.
ABOUT JESUS AND HIS FREQUENCY OF INSULTING
1.Now all we know about Jesus is what is written and there are several times he spoke with his enemies,and in only a few did he use insults.
2.The correct thing is to compare what his DOMINANT way of acting was then,based on what we have,(more than that it is impossible to tell)and he was usually in self-control,acting like MICHAEL LICONA(who has debated Muslims),MARY JO SHARP(who has also debated Muslims),WILLIAM CRAIG(who has also debated Muslims),JAY SMITH(who ALWAYS debates Muslims),NABEEL QURESHI(who also has debated Muslims).
You also stated:
"Furthermore, who said anything about Jesus doing it all the time? This is nothing but a straw man. The fact is THAT HE DID IT, and that's what counts. And could you so kind as to quote the explicit biblical evidence which says that he only did so three times in 30 years, especially when the Bible itself says Jesus did many things which have not been written (cf. John 20:30-31; 21:25). So you need to stop arguing from silence and assuming things which are not there in the biblical texts."
It is true that saying Jesus did not do it all the time is a straw man,but I was referring to you doing it all the time.But this is my last post about it all and let the chips fall where they will regarding my opinion,if it has merit or not.
Osama is right, the hateful comments by some people here is terrible! Terribnle! Why, just take a look:
"I AM 100% ALL FOR A TOTAL BLOOD BATH if your cuntographic christians and the so-called Muslim liberal homosexuals want to defile our societies with their pornography and feces that you call christianity."
"4- Iraq and Afghanistan, this is due to the 9/11 lie that was done by your lords and masters, the Zionists."
"It's simple. Don't look delicious in the eyes of your husband, and he won't rape you :). Throw the dior perfumes out."
Oh. wait. (looks at names of posters). those are all Osama. Silly me! (And really, that's not even half of it). What a hypocrite!
What Foolster said is hilarious.I have noticed Osama says such things and it is obvious he is sincere in that he believes in the Jewish/Zionist conspiracy.The reason is Jews are cursed by Allah "until the DAY of RESURRECTION" in sura 5:64 and Christians are cursed by Allah "until the DAY of RESURRECTION" in sura 5:14,so his negative view is logical.
Rereading Sam's OT passages about God and insults I had overlooked 1 Kings 18:20-29 where Elijah is said to have mocked the 450 prophets of Baal.
And we are talking about another religion,not an intra-Jewish dispute.Yes,that's true.And later Elijah KILLS ALL the 450 prophets of another religion.In a French book Jesus is bitterly called the friend of a mass-murderer,of Elijah, since he appears with him in the Transfiguration.
1.What the author doesnt know is that in the Baal faith there was child sacrifice.
2.The 450 prophets were,by logic, somehow involved in organizing child sacrifice,they were priests of that religion,for goodness' sake.
3.The only reason I am bringing this up is because if I dont then I would be accused of being selective about Biblical verses and its relation to insulting those of other religions,cherry-picking.
4.So the case of Elijah mocking those really were involved in child sacrifice and mocking,more than now and then,say Sami,Bassam,Osama is different.
5.The difference is that they are just debaters,they are not priests of say,the Aztec religion,where a man was sacrified alive.His heart was taken out of his heart,while alive,in honor of Aztec god Huitzilopochli.
Minoria, can you please do me a favor and stop trying to prove you are right, when clearly you are not? Your arguments go from bad to worse since it doesn't matter if this was an intra-Jewish dispute, SINCE THE FACT REMAINS THAT HOLY MEN OF GOD DID NOT HESITATE TO NSULT AND MOCK PEOPLE! Now can you respect my wishes BY NOT TURNING THIS SECTION INTO A DEBATE ABOUT IF IT IS RIGHT TO INSULT PEOPLE IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS? Thank you for respecting my wishes.
Yet another incompetent performance by Osama.... oh my gosh.... can't bare to listen to his blundering...
Hello Sam,
As I said before no problem,however you have a temper problem,that is obvious,you have to take care of that,man.It is constructive criticism.
Minoria, thank you for pointing out my issues. Much appreciated. Now hopefully you will take care of your own issues, namely, having to prove your point at all costs, and having to get in the last word to prove you are right. This is a symptom of pride and attention getting. Hopefully, you will take care of these problems and also be able to accept my constructive criticism of your issues. After all, if you can dish it out then you should be able to take it as well without flipping out and having to get in the last word.
Take care.
Disgusting. Notice, ladies and gentlemen, how Obama does not condemn this action by fellow Muslims (why would he, after all he said he wants a "bloodbath" against Coptic Christians) but instead insists that there is no proof the video matches the description (as if that makes this less vile! Like all good muslims he refuses to believe accusations against an other muslim, but has no problem throwing all kinds of unfounded accusations against others (like the claim that Christianity promotes prostitution, adultery, alcoholism etc. which Osama STILL HAS NOT APOLOGIZED FOR). DISGUSTING!
Osama: Do you now condemn this? If not, why not? (Also, stop ignoring me)
Hello Sam,
I did not understand your comment.First of all I don't try to prove I am right at all costs.If I am really convinced that the other has better proof then I say it.In your case I am not convinced,really.
That is why I am always reading the other side,what atheists,Jews and Muslims have to say about WHY for them Christianity is false.And many times I thought they had very good points,but then later on I discovered new information that made me see the situation was differently.
I have great respect for Derek Adams of answeringabraham.com,he used to be a Christian,then new evidence for him convinced him it was false,he is now an atheist.
Even though I think the evidence on the whole points to Christianity being true I can understand why another would not agree and leave.
I have great respect for him because he just didn't believe for it's own sake like most do,he decided to verify.
The same for John Loftus,ex-Christian,now atheist,whose books as to why Christianity for him is false,the intellectual reasons as to why he left,are full of much very valuable information.I respect his willingness to verify.
And also Gary Habermas,who has said publicly in a debate he has issues with the Genesis narrative and if one day the arguments and evidence against Christianity convince him then he will leave.
Michael Licona said something similarly in a Seminar and has stated publicly there were times that investigating it all the only thing he was sure was there was a God and that was all.
Not being sincerely intellectually convinced by your argument is not a "symptom of pride and attention-getting."I am not in it for getting publicity.Many times I have given personally information to others about why Christianity is true and in the end the person was still not convinced by a specific point,though it seemed very good to me.But I never thought he or she had some psycholgical problem and had pride.
I am sure many of the arguments I think are good evidence in favor of Christianity would seem so-so to say John Loftus,or Derek Adams,but it would never cross my mind to accuse them of pride.I undestand there are many times the other argument is as good and valid.That said I am not writing this to have the last word,but because I know myself,and I am not full of pride,it is the truth,only that I am not intellectually convinced.That said I will stop here.
Minoria, Lord bless you and guide you always.
Guess what folks, Minoria has now gone to Yahya Snow's blog trying to badmouth me. He has even capitulated to the Muslims by claiming that they have a good argument concerning the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18. And this is the guy claiming that he isn't after attention and affirmation!
Oops, sorry, I posted that last comment in the wrong topic.
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