Nav. I'm here. We have christian scholars here.
Nav? Rev 1:88 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."Nav who is Jesus or God the Father?
Who is this scripture refering to?
Nav here I have more Scripture. Search your Quran and tell me who is the beginning and the end.."When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.’" Revelation 1:17-18"And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.’" Revelation 2:8"‘Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end’ ... He who testifies to these things says, ‘Surely I am coming soon.’ Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!" Revelation 22:12-13, 20The titles, "First and Last" and "the Beginning and the End, refer to God's sovereignty as the only Lord and God, that everything begins and ends with God since he alone sustains and controls all creation and events. No mere creature could utter such words, and yet the Lord Jesus does.Nav I'm waiting?! You ran to your scholar saying that we need to heed everything and confirm it with your scholar...So there are Christian scholars here...come.
Nav..Did u find those verses in the quran for me????OK ..don't worry I have them here!But to Allah belongs the Last and the First. S. 53:25He is the First and the Last, the Evident and Immanent; and He has full knowledge of all things. S. 57:3and to Us belong the Last and the First. S. 92:13Nav...your allah is called the beginning and the end...Wait, But Jesus is also called the beginning and the end!"‘Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end’ ... He who testifies to these things says, ‘Surely I am coming soon.’ Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!" Revelation 22:12-13, 20Nav...Jesus and your allah are both the beginning and the end! Infact Jesus is called the ALMIGHTY in Revelations 1:88 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."..Nav? Where are you? I thought you were "seeking"!
Nav..If u need help understanding here are the scholars @ this site Samuel GreenDavid WoodHogan Elijah HagbardAnthony RogersWe can ask them to join if you bring your scholar Kal.
Nav...its been 24 hours now.. I thought you wanted to Learn, I thought you were seeking truth?!!!!
Nav? its now been 3 days. Where r u
Hello EverybodyI have an important question : its about the genealogy of the messiah.I'm raised in a jewish family and they said to me that yeshua is not the messiah because of many points, but one of the points pointed out to the genealogy of the messiah. and this is my question : why are there three names missing in the genealogy of the messiah ( Matthew 1:8 Joram ... ... ... Uzziah)? my question is not to attack cristianity but instead i wanted to defend it in my own house,because i think that yeshua is our messiah. Blessed by All women and man who follow yeshua Our Messiah.
To my brother acermdg..Are you claiming to be a scholar of Christianity? if so then you really should know better. Everything you quoted was from the book of revelation, the last book to be added to the bible. this is a dream that Paul that had, the same paul that murdered other christians that had the same views and beliefs that we Muslims and even Jesus (pbuh) had.The Qu'ran we can debate later, I can make my point by using your own book against you.The problem is you christians take the words of Paul instead of Jesus, if Jesus is your Lord then follow him NOT paul who contradicts everything Jesus said. if you get a red lettered bible it makes it even easier to see the words of jesus.Jesus (pbuh) never said one word in the book of revelations. while he walked on earth he never made any statement claiming to be god.if you say you want to know who is the beginning and the end i refer you to the book of Hebrews, chapter 7, verse 3. Melchisedek was "WITHOUT FATHER, WITHOUT MOTHER, WITHOUT DECENT, HAVING NEITHER BEGINNING OF DAYS NOR END OF LIFE". so the book of revelations that you love to quote so much is directly in contradiction with this. jesus had no father, but Melchisedek had no mother nor no father, even more desrving of worship that Jesus (if this is the test for worship).We Muslims attribute these qualities only to God (in arabic Allah) and we BOTH believe he is unseen,Exodus 33:20There shall no man see me, and live.John 1:18No man hath seen God at any time.John 6:46Not that any man hath seen the Father. 1 Timothy 1:17Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.1 Timothy 6:16Whom no man hath seen nor can see.1 John 4:12No man hath seen God at any time.people spoke and saw Jesus all his life.
To my brother acermdg..PART 2Jesus even clarifies what Paul says. You keep taking statements that say jesus is god, which again would go against what jesus said and taught. please explain to me how jesus claims divinity when he HIMSELF says,john chapter 20 verse 17,"i am returning to MY FATHER and YOUR FATHER, to MY GOD and YOUR GOD!" john chapter 17, verse 3, "the eternal life is for them to know YOU, the ONLY TRUE GOD and jesus christ whom YOU have sent"john chapter 14 verse 28"MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I"JOHN CHAPTER 10 VERSE 29"MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN ALL'Mathew chapter 12 verse 28"I cast out devil with the spirit of god" Luke chapter 11 verse 20"I with the finger of god cast out devil" John chapter 5 verse 30"i can of my own self do NOTHING, as i hear i judge and my judment is just FOR I SEEK NOT MY OWN WILL BUT THE WILL OF MY FATHER"JOHN CHAPTER 14 VERSE 24,"THE WORDS THAT YOU HEAR ARE NOT MINE, BUT THE FATHERS WHO HAS SENT ME."everything here goes against what Paul and YOU (pauls followers) believe. paul never met, knew or spoke to Jesus, because he wrote at least 20 YEARS AFTER JESUS (if you dispute that find me any chirstian scholar who says so).you referred to revelations talking about jesus's return and paul writes "come, lord jesus",........WHICH AGAIN CONTADICTS WHAT JESUS SAYS AND TEACHES. but by quoting it i take it you also believe and choose Paul that when jesus returns YOU will call him LORD, we (muslims) wont be calling him lord nor the jews, hindus, athiest, but you will call him LORD. He addresses you christians who think he's god in Mathew chapter 7 verse 22, he says "On judgment day many will say to me, 'Lord! Lord! We prophesied in YOUR name and cast out demons in YOUR name and performed many miracles in YOUR name, and then will I declare unto them I NEVER KNEW YOU, DEPART FROM ME, ye that work iniquity'. amazing, he's addressing you, the people that do many mighty works (all the charity you guys do in HIS name) cast out devils and perform exorcisms in HIS name, and do all these miracles which you boast about and he will tell YOU "DEPART FROM ME"This is the problem, we follow christ better than you we love him, respect him, revere him more than you because we follow his teachings better than you, and you think WE are the enemy. christianity is split into so many sections but the main two is between paul and jesus. Jesus (pbuh) says dont drink alcohol and never drank it, Paul contradicts that and says it's fine so you people drink all the time and even have them in the churches where you claim to worship him. jesus WAS and preached being circumcised as it was brought from abraham and all the prophets since have done it, even jesus who said “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to FULFILL" (matthew 5,17), but paul contradicts this, says do not be circumcised (Galatians 5:2), but you choose to follow him and im guessing you eat pork too Mr Acermdg?please, tell me who follows jesus more the muslims or the christians? and who follows paul more, the muslims or the christians?i hope nobody here gets offended by what i have said, im glad we can get together and have these discussions, you christians are the closest to us, if anyone disrespects jesus or trys to belittle him, we too come to his aid and agree on many things as you do, our only point of difference is his divinity.please pick up the quran and read what it has to say about this mighty messenger and his beloved mother Mary who we are told (in the quran) is held above the women of all nations, no other woman on earth the ever lived is greater than Mary mother of jesus (pbut)
Are you claiming to be a scholar of Christianity? if so then you really should know better. Everything you quoted was from the book of revelation, the last book to be added to the bible. this is a dream that Paul that had, the same paul that murdered other christians that had the same views and beliefs that we Muslims and even Jesus (pbuh) had.If you want to correct people about the bible, you should show some evidence of having read it. Revelation was written by John, not Paul. It is a vision, not a dream, and was given to him, as the last living apostle, to show Jesus in his divine glory and the future course of events at the time when Jesus comes back to set up his kingdom on earth.As for Paul, he was an enemy of Christ and the church, but Christ met him and turned his life around, and his subsequent life preaching the faith of Christ is sufficient proof of the genuineness of that experience and commission.Jesus (pbuh) never said one word in the book of revelations.The book is actually called Revelation, and it contains many words directly from Jesus Christ (who is in any case the Word of God, so that all of the scripture is his own word). Try reading it, for you clearly have not done so.No man has seen God.In the New Testament, "God" usually signifies the Father. The Father is spirit. But Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. (Colossians 1:15-17)You even quote 1 John 4:12No man hath seen God at any time.But the same author writes:No one has ever seen God; the only God [or only Son], who is at the Father's side, he has made him known. (John 1:18)and that only God [or Son] is the one whom he describes thus:1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.... 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
That Jesus say that the Father is greater than he is no proof that Jesus is not God. He is the Son; the son defers to the Father, always.Amazingly, you quote from John 14:24. Reading the context would save you from exposing your ignorance:14:1 “Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.This is putting himself alongside God.14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.” 8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?The Quran says that Allah is the truth. (It also says he is the greatest deceiver, but who minds a bit of self-contradiction?) So Jesus is claiming an attribute of Allah. He is also saying that anyone who has seen him has seen the Father, which is only true if he himself is God and the Father is manifested in him.14:12 “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. 13 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.So Jesus is commanding belief in himself, which is putting himself in the place of God. He is telling them to pray to him, which should be done only to God; and he is telling them that he will answer prayers, which means he must be omnipresent so as to be able to hear their prayers.14:21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” 22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.So Jesus is telling them to keep his own commandments, which are also God's. He is not telling them God's commandments but telling them his own. This again puts him on the same level as God! Yet also the commandments that are his own are from the Father too. Also the Father and Jesus will come to the believer to make their home with him. Again, this puts the Father and Jesus on the same level. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.The Father is going to send the Holy Spirit in Jesus' name. Did you notice that? Not in the Father's name! Again, this puts Jesus on a level with the Father.
Jesus (pbuh) says dont drink alcohol and never drank itWrong!Jesus made about 240 gallons of wine for a wedding party that had run out. (John 2:6)He kept the Passover feast, whose ceremony requires the drinking of four cups of wine. At the Last Supper: Matthew 26:27 ...he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, 28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.Note again. In fact this was the third cup of the feast, the cup of redemption, so he would have drunk the first two already. This one he would not drink now because he was about to carry out the work of redemption on the cross.jesus who said “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to FULFILL" (matthew 5,17), but paul contradicts this, says do not be circumcised (Galatians 5:2)Jesus fulfilled the law. He completed it. Its whole purpose was bound up in him. The law was, in any case, given only to Israel, and was never imposed on the Gentiles. The whole Jewish church agreed on this. (Acts 15) If Gentiles try to be circumcised, they are effectively denying that Jesus has incorporated them into the church by the Holy Spirit.So who follows jesus more the muslims or the christians? and who follows paul more, the muslims or the christians?The answer is that Muslims do not follow Jesus at all, because they do not obey him but deny his very purpose in coming into the world. Christians do obey him and also the apostle through whom he gave much revelation about the current age.
Oliver-Wonderful explanations of Scripture! I hope that 'Babak Bani' takes the time to read them and learn. I have also read that Jesus changed the equivalent of 930 bottles of water into Wine at that wedding- he is a generous God!
Oliver you are such a fool, you poor fool you are just nothing to comment others work.
I have a question about the greek gods Mithra and dionysus i want to defend christisnity also but can someone tell me the jesus wasnt made up from the greek gods
heres question for you self proclaimed scholars. If jesus is god then why did he preach? are you saying that he preached himself? you say jesus is the son of god then follow that by saying he is god which is a fundemental contradiction at grass roots level. Never mind all the other jiberish you guys spout out just tell me if jesus is god did he preach himself cos if you say no he preached god then that means jesus wasnt god unless you believe in 2 gods.
I am somewhat amazed by the butchery of many biblical texts to deny the Deity of Christ and the Trinity. So amazing.
According to Babak Bani, the Book of Revelation was written by Paul. Actually, according to the book itself, it was written by an elder named John. According to Christian tradition, he was John the Apostle.
To Oliver,God bless you entirely for the beautiful testimony from the Bible.There are many people arguing Bible facts for the sake of arguind without even knowing the Bible. Remember when Jesus was provoked to answer twisted questions, He simply refused to answer and walked away... God bless you for taking the extra time and answer !!!
God bless u Bro. Oliver
I just wanna address one verse pointed out by Babak bani...he quoted a quarter of Jn 14:28...but I will quote it in full n refute himJohn 14:28You heard me say to you, 'I am going away, and I will come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.In honesty I would like it if muslims deal with Biblica text in truth...This text provides great intrigue into why Jesus would expect His disciples to rejoice because He is going away...why? Even by saying He will suffer crucifixion? Jesus explains by adding that "for the Father is greater than I" which points to His humility in the incarnation because He had left His Glory and taken on flesh...Philippians 2: 6-7who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.If you read John14:28 in context with John 17:3-5John 17:3-5And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. 4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.I believe its apparent Jesus made it clear why they should rejoice that He is going back to the Father in Heaven with whom He had glory before the foundation of the world. In this way the disciples are able to ask anything in Jesus' name (whom had been their Master, Friend, LORD and Brother and gave thim His promise even face to face) and it will be done.So this text doesn't in any way, shape or form deny the Deity of Our Lord and Savious God, Jesus Christ!
there are also christians who believe Jesus is what he testified he is the divine son of God not to be God himselfi am a christian and I rather believe what God testified about Jesus.. this is My beloved SON..and what Jesus testified about himself ..I say I am the SON of God..greets 2 peter3:16 ..which those who are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Revelation 2:8 “To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.Jesus is God.
Yes youre right Jesus is the first and the last begotten sonandGod is the first and the last Godyou should ask the first and the last wat? You or youre teacher fill youreself in GodI just read the scriptures 2 Peter 3:16 He speaks about this subject in all his letters. Some things in them are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, leading to their own destruction, as they do the rest of the Scriptures. greetings a christian
Jesus IS the son of God. He is the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity who are God. There is one God made of three persons in the Holy Trinity,the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Jesus is 100% divine and 100% human. He is the Word Incarnate. He became Man to save us petty humans. He is Love. God, the Father loves us, Jesus loves us and the Holy Spirit loves us. God does not just love Christians. He loves Jews, Muslims and even atheists. All they have to do is ask for the Truth and they will be shown. Jesus is the Truth and He loves all of us. He just wants to be loved back.
yes I agree Jesus is the first and last created (born) human Son of God john 3:16 all other humans are born out of their parents up until Eve and Eve was taken out of Adam.And so all is created out of Adam and Adam was the first of all human creation and he was also the last he was the image of God gen 1:27 he is the king of paradise gen 1:26he is the father of all living for his wive is the mother of al living gen 3:20yes the Word is God and with His Word God created everything gen 1:3 and God SAID LET THERE BE..., but when God blew His spirit in the nostrils of man the word became flesh apart from God not being God but a creation of God.yes Jesus is the son of God on Earth and in Heaven in the past and futurein all this Jesus is not God, but clearly a divine creation of God and the image of God, like Seth was the image of Adam, but he was not Adam Jesus was one with God, but not God in person, like a man is one with his woman but not one in person like a child is one with his father/mother, but not one in persongreetings from a fellow christian2 Peter 3:16 He speaks about this subject in all his letters. Some things in them are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, leading to their own destruction, as they do the rest of the Scriptures.
Jesus being called the First and the Last is a title of YHWH in the Old Testament and is ONLY used of God, not a mere man. Also, No Trinitarian says Jesus is the Father.
Jesus was not created. He was begotten of the Father. Jesus is God. "In the beginning, was the Word, the Word was in God's presence and the Word was God" John 1:1Also, Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I AM." When Moses was speaking to God, through the burning bush, who did God call Himself "I Am. Jesus is God. If you are Christian and follow scripture, you cannot deny that.
I never denied the scriptures Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am."but you or youre teachers have distort this scripture by adding that Jesus said: My name is the I AMjust let the verse speak for itself:VERSE: before Abraham was, I amMEANING: Jesus was before AbrahamVERSE: before Abraham was, I amYOURE DISTORTION: Jesus said his name is the I AMand the words I am is used by many prophets and kings trough out the bible, I dont think you would say that Moses claimed to be God when he said: 'here I am'why did God said His name is I AM, trough out the bible He makes Himself known to people by: I AM the lord your God I AM the God of.. I AM the lord who..it is a part of how He makes Himself knownthe definition of the first and last is not to be GOD, but you are uniqueand yes the Messiah is unique and his and our God is unique in that way we are not unique for we are all born from men only one is born from the spirit of God this is His son Adam later named as Malki-Sedeq and later known as Jesus greetings and LOVE from a follower of Jesus Christ2 peter 3:16... which IGNORANT and unstable people DISTORT, leading to their own destruction, as they do the rest of the Scriptures.
John 8:58"Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"I think it's important to read what the very next verse says after this to fully understand this conversation better.John 8:59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.Why did they want to stone him? What would the reasons be, under Jewish law, to stone someone?I bet it wasn't because Jesus claimed to be preexistent before Abraham.Is there prior account of anyone in the Bible being killed for claiming to pre-exist? No, just claiming to be God.
We are human beings. we will argue, it is a fact. Religion, politics, sports, etc. Everyone will ALWAYS find a reason to support one side and dispute another. I prefer not to engage because it is useless, especially on blogs and public boards. I say, do your OWN studying and decide your religion or choose no religion. I know what my religious preference is but it is no one's business but my own. Respect each other's choice is all you can do. I think the real issue should be why so many people take a religious book and twist it. I refer to people like the Westboro baptists who think it is Christian to hate gay people and think it's okay to ridicule fallen military personel. I don't understand why there is a Quran yet some point out who women have many rights while many countries with a Muslim majority to provide women with any rights. I don't understand why the people of Waco, TX promoted death if they were Christians? Why some Muslims promote death to non-muslims? While other Muslims say "that is not true Islam." I think if someone can explain why a religious group twists the words of a book that supposedly all follow(i.e. christians the bible, Muslims the Quran, jews the Torah) then a lot of problems will be solved.
It's always amusing when someone like Jenna comes along, says she's not going to engage in criticism on the internet, then tells us we're wrong for criticizing other people's views, and doesn't even realize that she's doing exactly what she condemns in others. "Ladies and gentlemen, I, Jenna, declare that you are all WRONG for telling other people that they are WRONG!" LOL.
She needs to be fully informed as what happened in Waco......now if she would have stated about Jones town that would be different. But not make her point
just wanna let brothers sam and david know , that my baby just born today , Jesus bless her to be a good girl and thanks Jesus for this gift. love u guys
Hi dear friends,Very useful page. I would like to explain God. We can take the Sun as a model. We have only one Sun for the earth. And also we all have only one God. The Sun radiates light. God speaks to us by words and that is Jesus. There is hot with light from the Sun. There is Holy Spirit with Jesus, the power from the God.Thanks.
I was a muslim. But after seeing and knowning more about it, its just full of hate and punishment. If you want christians and jews or whoever to follow islam you set a good example. Allah wants people to follow him but he only talks about how hes going to get punish them wow like thats really going to work?! Also I felt like I didnt belong in islam. So with the help of my loving girlfriend she taught me soo much and I knew christianity is the right and TRUE RELIGION.
let's make it simple for everybody..worship to the one and only God..The Father... Allahno dispute.. P/s: Christian believe in Father right? so no problem then..
But according to the Qur'an, Allah is a father to no one. So you just invited us to reject Islam. Thanks!
Even The Old Testament speaks of Messiah as God: Says Isaiah 9:6,7" For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."So, this "child" who is born is called "El Gibbor" (the mighty God) and He is also called "The everlasting Father".Additionally, Psalm 110:1-6 states: "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath. He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries. In relation to Psalm 110, Jesus asked about the father of the Messiah & when the Jewish Pharisees answered they said that the Messiah's father is King David. Then Jesus asked them about Psalm 110 saying that David in "the Spirit" called Him Lord. Thereby saying that King David acknowledged having TWO Lords! As David had said "The Lord said to my Lord..." From Mathew 22:41-46: "While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
Here is a way I explain the Trinity:When you are standing where you are, are you you? Yes. If you were standing on the other side of the room, would you be you there? Yes. If you were standing in the next room, would you still be you? Yes. What if you were standing here, and across the room, and in the next room, would you still be you? Yes, you would be existing as an individual in three places at the same time. Would each of you in each of those places have a different perspective? Yes. But because you are three individuals yet still One, you would each know the same, even though you did not experience it yourself. Could being One as well as three become disorderly? Yes. How could you resolve that? Each One takes a different role. The Father is the One who directs (even though the other two Ones are in total agreement because they are the same). The Son is the One who designs and the One who shows His creation what He is like. The Holy Spirit is the One who causes the plans and designs to come into effect. Hence they all have the same attributes of GOD because they are all GOD. So the three are one but also individual at the same time.I hope that helps - the kids at church understand it that way at least.
HI David:I was watching one of your debates on you tub and one of the imam's comment about Islam was that Islam is spreading in the west fast because Islam is authentic and miracles. every one know that is a lie because the west and Christians have more freedom and respect for all human including Islam the opposite the apposite in the Muslim countries where Christians and others are persecuted and not allowed to preach or build a church or temple Saudi Arabia is perfect example plus if there life was better where they come from (Islam) why they come to live with the west they should just simply go back to there Owen country since the west are infidels . Thank you for your great work and my Good bless you in the name of Jesus Christ.
Please do not take this question as any kind insult.If GOD has a son. Who is his wife.GOD please forgive me.It just a question
Lara,Calling Jesus "the Son of God" has nothing to do with God producing a biological offspring. "The Son" is Jesus' eternal place in the Trinity.
Jesus is THE FIRST and THE LAST, which do not mean "the first Son" and "the last Son". Those terms spoken by Jesus speak for themselves.
THE BOOK OF REVELATION (Part 1)The book of revelation is of Jesus Christ that was given to him by the (ho) God (Theos), which is shown from chapter one as follows:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which the (ho) God (Theos) gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of the (tou) God (Theos) and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.Points to consider:• Almighty God, introduced as the (ho) God (Theos) gave Jesus the book of visions and prophecies• An angel was sent to John the Evangelist who bore witness to the word of the (tou) God (Theos), and to the testimony of Jesus ChristAlmighty God again declares Himself in chapter one of Revelation as follows:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the (ho) Lord (Kyrios) the (ho) God (Theos), “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”Points to Consider:• Almighty God is the Alpha and the Omega• Almighty God is the (ho) Lord (Kyrios) the (ho) God (Theos), who is and who was and who is to come, the AlmightyIn chapter nineteen of Revelation an angel from God appears to John as follows:9 And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of the (tou) God (theos).” 10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship (proskuneó) him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship the (to) God (theos).” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.Points to Consider:• The Angel is not Jesus• The Angel is not God• It forbidden to worship (proskuneó) anything other than God• John mistakenly worshipped the angel and after received the testimony of Jesus, worship the (ho) God (Theos) The vision of the Son of Man clearly refers to Jesus Christ, which is shown from chapter one of Revelation as follows:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, 18 and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.Points to Consider:• Jesus is the first and the last• Jesus died and live eternally as an immortal resurrected body• Jesus holds the keys to death and to the place of the underworld; the abode of departed spirits; the region of the dead. (Hades)In chapter twenty-one of Revelation another angel, this time called one of the seven messengers appears to John as follows:9 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.”And in chapter twenty-two of John the seventh messenger (angel) says the following to John:And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place.” 7 “And behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”Points to Consider: • The words brought by the angel are trustworthy and truth• The angel was sent by the (ho) Lord (Kyrios), the (ho) God (Theos) of the spirits of the prophets• The words of Jesus are transmitted by the angel, ‘I am coming soon’
THE BOOK OF REVELATION (Part 2)Now amazingly on hearing the words of the angel John again gets confused, possibly because the angel spoke in a manner as though he was the (ho) God (Theos), whereby John religiously worships the angel as follows:8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me, 9 but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship the (ho) God (Theos).”From this it is important to note two previous points as follows:• Jesus is coming soon• The angel was sent by the (ho) God (Theos)• The words of this book are summed up with the statement, worship the (ho) God (Theos)Jesus again affirms that he coming soon in chapter twenty-two of revelation as follows:12 “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”Points to Consider:• Jesus is bringing recompense in his second coming• Jesus declares himself as the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end, and earlier Almighty God declares Himself as the Alpha and the Omega• Jesus sent his angel to testify to John about these things for the churches, and earlier John clearly said that the (ho) God (Theos) sent this angelConclusion:Almighty God and Jesus are of the same entity and One in Purpose, One in substance and One essence (John 10:30), whereby showing that the Son shares the same divine nature as His Father (Hebrews 1:3).
To all Muslims, Christians, Jews, Catholics, Buddist, other beliefs and all who believe in the authenticity of their chosen faith/religion. Please take a moment of peace...Humans and every thing in this world were created by the Only One God for the only purpose which is to worship Him alone. He has no needs and He doesn't need us. We His creations need Him.Whether we worship Him or not, still we can do whatever we wish to do. We can choose whatever faith we like to go into, we can choose to make our own religion to appear to be holy and encourage lost souls to join or fight against other faiths through our confidence and superiority in wisdom, knowledge and exposure to what we think and believe is true. Whatever we do, all has corresponding consequences and rewards in the day of judgement.There are Three (3) things in life we should remember. Those are the TRUTH, LIES, and what is VALUABLE/IMPORTANT to us.1. TRUTH- everything that has life regardless of our superiority in knowledge, wisdom, politics, wealth, fame, beauty, you name it... we will all experience DEATH and its the truth. 2. LIES - everything we have in life like superiority in knowledge, tremendous wisdom, excellence in defending our religion, success in politics, enormous wealth, worldwide fame, perfect health and beauty, you name it... they are all LIES. We will all leave those material things behind.3. VALUABLE/IMPORTANT - in time of tremendous agony, sickness, fear, and even death, we will choose the lesser evil or what is valuable and important to us just to survive from the present predicament.CONCLUSION:We should respect everyone's faith and religion they believed in to promote peace, harmony and progress to make use of our temporary stay in this world. No one among us knows if our prayers, our religious obedience, our struggle to prove the authenticity of our religion and all things we thought which will save us are worthy to the CREATOR. Let's pray to the God we believe in, to guide us in the right path and not to the path of the outcast satan. Let's love one another by respecting each others beliefs because only the Creator knows whats in our hearts.Let's stop discussions, hurtful comments, and unpleasant truth. Every one has the right to choose their religion. Your religion is yours and my religion is mine. Let's promote peace between faiths, God willing, He will show us the right path... May peace and blessings of the Almighty be with us all... Thank you for the moment of peace.
People, the main thing is to know who is allah and islam. The answers to these question will never be found in the quran or islam but the Bible prophesies done 500 years before islam. Take a look at these passages that perfectly describe allah/islam.2 Thessalonians 2:4…….3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?…This is the antichrist, he who denies that Jesus is the Christ. No one who denies the Son has the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also.”‘ (1 John 2:22-23)“And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14) and “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!” (Galatians 1:8). “And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practice, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes.” (Daniel 8:24-25)“And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands.” (Revelation 20:4).“Neither shall he regard the gods of his fathers, nor the desire of women.” (Daniel 11). “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.” Conclusion: allah is not just an idol but is satan and his followers can never hear non of that so that they fulfill what is written the bible that ..Mark 4:12…..11 And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, 12 so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN."
JoshThank you for the most intelligent comments noted on this blog. I now know why there are wars. It is not because man hates man but man hates that other man does not believe his religion what ever it may be. For the sake of my comments I will remain anonymous about my beliefs so that no one can hate me for what I believe in or do not believe in. What is discerning is that people of all faiths live next to one another day after day and function as humans on this planet yet find the need to hate and kill one another because of beliefs. What defines me as a heathen or infidel? I work and have worked hard at my job for almost 30 years. I have a wife that I love with all my heart and have been married to for 20 years. I have two loving children that i have strived to teach to be fair and treat people as they would want to be treated. I have many friends of different races and religions that I hold in great esteem for who they are as humans and no strictly on their religious beliefs. Why is there always a need to be different or why is there always a need to assimilate for the sake of.
CHRISTIANS ARE FOOLISH PEOPLE WHO CANT UNDERSTAND ISLAM.
@Shinae Khan...Christians who FOOLISH. There's an old saying, "Who's the fool? The fool, or the one who follows the fool? You do know, to follow ISLAM, you must not use your brain, so says these imams:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrGz3wNUmQk&index=38&list=FLo-qZ8onMje41k9J87KapKg
@Shinae Khan you are correct if referring to uneducated individuals who have not studied the Koran and Hadith. I am certain that your comment can not possibly be referring to the scholars like Dr. Jay Smith, Dinesh D'Souza, Matthew Hill, Harold Hanson, Don Deal, John Ferrer, Nabeel Qureshi, William Federer, Kamal Saleem & Stuart McAllister, though. Condemning ANY belief out of ignorance would be a great error in logic, I am sure you agree, and I am certain that your comment is after years of studying the Holy Bible. I do have one question since you are so educated in the two religions, how is it that the Holy Bible was written over 1500 years, the Old Testament being some of the earliest records of recorded history of mankind and the New Testament chronologically outlining and referring back to Old Testament writings, by over 40 individuals with varying occupations ranging from doctor to shepherd to tax collector to fisherman, encompassing 66 books, has more archeological, biological, chemical & physics related prophecies/explanations that have come to pass or have been proven with advanced scientific discoveries, yet not one contradiction is present and it presents a focused message that Jesus Christ is the Messiah and the ONLY way to heaven is through HIM?
@Josh Factorian - you have a perspective that I have not heard before. I commend you on originality however there are some basic logic flaws in your reasoning.1) Truth - we all will NOT experience death. Once you are a believer in Jesus Christ as the Messiah and that He died for your sins on the cross & confess that you are a sinner in need of redemption, you do NOT experience death. You are simply transformed from a soul in a mortal body to a soul in heaven.2) Lies - You are correct about political power, fame, prestige and material possessions being earthly nonsense that are not meant to be revered, boasted about or stored like precious jewels. I submit to you though, Knowledge, Wisdom, Health, Wealth & Beauty are all attributes that you DO take with you. They are perfected in heaven because of our adoption by the FATHER, through JESUS CHRIST & given to us in certain measure here on earth by the HOLY SPIRIT for each of us to complete our tasks set forth by GOD.3) Valuable/Important - Men/women throughout history have chosen the path less taken. I submit to you that NO soldier would rather fight and die than be somewhere safe enjoying their favorite hobby. NO bone marrow donor would rather be in a hospital enduring excruciating pain to save another's life than be home with family and/or friends. NO Christian captive by ISIS would rather have their head cutoff than be ANYWHERE else in the world, but we do what we DONT want to MOST because it is what we are called to do, because there is "NO greater love than one who lays down his life for his friends" and because we are commanded to "love our neighbors as we love ourselves" and because the greatest Commandment is "Love The Lord your God with ALL your heart and with ALL your soul and with ALL your mind". This refers back to the Ten Commandments which states first and foremost "There shall be NO other gods before me.... You will NOT bow down to them, and you will NOT serve them..."! So I submit to you, maybe the people who take the path of least resistance are just weak people and of course that also means your afore mentioned points about 1) truth 2) lies 3) valuable/important, would be correct... for those people. We are only promised heaven if we pick up our cross, take the path less traveled & finish the race but the best part is that we NEVER have to do this alone.
Hey guys!I have a question and wasn't sure where to ask it so I figured here would be the most appropriate.. Is there a possibility that Muhammad could have heard about some of the gnostic bible scriptures, gospels and epistles thus proclaiming in the Quran that we have changed the words of their original writing? Could he have been in contact with Christians who maybe had these writings and/or believed them? Thanks in advance!
Jesus was called Mighty God in 750BC in Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
I am an orthodox and we are taught that Jesus is the Son of God, not God himself. And this is how i see the Trinity: God is the Father. Jesus was his son but He was a piece of God sent to us as a human. We wouldn't have God's power as for he was God incarnated into a human and everything was done by God thru Him. The Holy Spirit is the omnipresence of God and the power by which He does everything. So God is still only 1: the Father which took a piece of him and sent it to us as Jesus and who is always omnipresent and does everything (the Holy Spirit - which is the power of God, as we cannot see God's face). Maybe sometimes we should think about meanings and not take it word by word.
I think Muslims can benefit from this site ... calling Muslims back to their Christian roots ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2Rhgo1JuGE
HAi friends my name geo george c from India,kerala.trinity concept from my point of viewIn Malayalam (sanskrit) human have 3 states of forms("deham',"dhehi",athmave"namely 1.body2.life(living)3.soulGod create us human like God in Genesis it's saying...if that is true why we complicating this for God?1.Father 2.Son3. Spriteare 3 forms of God but only one in exact....sorry for bad English....
David, what is the basis for an atheist who says that Christ's death was an "inconvenience" because he exists eternally? And how would you illustrate the fallacy in that logic?
An inconvenience for whom? HIM? Certainly NOT for us.The body/human died not the spirit/divine. The body took the wrath of GOD in our place. HE was our sacrifice, our lamb. NO human body is eternal so there needs to be clarity on the divisions of the body/soul/spirit... I could be wrong, I often am. That is what I was taught, anyway
Im not sure if my last post went through or not but I was taught that that the human body died on the cross, NOT the divine spirit. The human body took the sin and wrath as a blameless sacrifice. The divine spirit was seperated from the body during the period of the outpouring of the sin/wrath. There had to be the seperation and death to be able to offer the reconciliation to us. I wonder who exactly the suffering and death was an "inconvenience" for. HIM? Certainly it was NOT for us. There needs to be clarification of the distinct seperation between body/soul/spirit. I could totally be wrong on this but its my understanding. Please educate me if this is incorrect.
MidKnight76The atheist was trying to equivocate Jesus' eternality to that of being a child and not remember some form of immense pain. My argument is that the pain experienced is not negated because the child doesn't remember it.
hai friends any one can tell me the truth behind ezhekiyal 17:1-lastwhich is that grape tree and devatharooo.....i am from kerala so malayalam in typing
HAi friends my name geo george c from India,kerala.trinity concept from my point of viewIn Malayalam (sanskrit) human have 3 states of forms("deham',"dhehi",athmave"namely 1.body2.life(living)3.soulGod create us human like God in Genesis it's saying...if that is true why we complicating this for God?1.Father 2.Son(come to man in body)3. Spriteare 3 forms of God but only one in exact....sorry for bad English....
I do not know why it is so hard for Islam believers to understand the trinity, are their hearts hardened, have they been so indoctrinated they will not listen to reason? My 8 yo understands (and I hate to say she isn't the smartest kid, she is the sweetest though) She actually compared it to an egg (something from where life begins) it has 3 parts, shell, whites and yolk. If you make an egg white omelet, you are still eating eggs. You see this a lot in nature, science and history. GOD is so intelligent, that us mere humans cannot comprehend all the patterns, mathematics, etc that is involved in our world.
Jesus said " you must be born again " ( meaning spiritual rebirth ). If one is not born again, he does not have the Spirit of God residing in him and therefore is not able to comprehend spiritual truth. Christians actually become a new species with a new identity...Muslims are truly missing out!
Dont know if this is the place to state this.. (first time on the site, give me a break) but I just want to say keep up the great work you guys are doing! As a theology student currently, my ultimate dream is to become a traveling apologist, and I believe this site will be of great help to me. God bless!
I appreciate reading all the comments very helpful and informative.I wanted to comment on how Jesus confirms the True Written Hebrew Scriptures.How Jesus refers to the Hebrew Scriptures as The Law. Jn 15:25The Law and the Prophet. Mthw 5:17The Law, the Prophets and the Psalms. Luke 24:44And How Jesus refers to the Whole of the Hebrew Bible, the TaNaKh.Which Starts with Genesis and Ends with Chronicles.(The Hebrews having the same content but a different order for their books)Luke 11:50-5250 Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel (Genesis 3)to the blood of Zechariah (2Chronicles 24), who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held accountable for it all.2 Chronicles 24:2222 King Joash did not remember the kindness Zechariah’s father Jehoiada had shown him but killed his son, who said as he lay dying, “May the Lord see this and call you to account.”I think the very fact that Jesus testifies to the very order of the Hebrew TaNaKh, and to it's specific Divisions. Does well to Confirm the Old Testament we have today is the same true written Old Testament of Jesus time. Within the scripture itself.
To David Wood and Team and commenters;Love to you all, be encouraged and strengthened because the Living ONE, the God of Jacob (Psalm 46) is on your side. (or you are on His side :)Holy Spirit is ALL OVER this Holy Text as I read today, wanted to share it;Psalm 46 King James Version (KJV)46 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;3 Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah.4 There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God (US!), the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.(His tabernacle is in the midst of US, because He said He will no longer live inside temples made with hands-we are made without hands ;)5 God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.6 The heathen (Islamic fighters) raged, the kingdoms were moved (Caliphates): he uttered his voice, the earth melted.7 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.8 Come, behold the works of the Lord, what desolations he hath made in the earth.9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow(bow is what Ishmael, father of Arabs wears in Bible) and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen,(YES) I will be exalted in the earth. (the whole earth, His Word/Logos/Jesus will cover the earth, as the waters cover the seas) 11 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge.(our impervious protection) Selah.AMEN (Selah means, "pause and calmly think on this" :)
Everyone seems to be arguing with each other... If not muslim to Christian its muslium to muslim or Christian to Christian...LOL
Dears All,Beside what you all said above, there is one great truth that we all may not deny. That is:- because sin has interred in to the world, the world affected by sin and mankind became sinful. That is why the world (starting form the first man Adama still today)is practicing evil things and rebelling on the holy God (“For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard” (Rome 3:23)). The Bible clearly tells us that sin ruled over all people and brought them to death (Romans 5:21). But God is holy and righteous. He is love and so Loved the world,(John 3:16), So He sent His Son to be the WAY to scape from the judgement through Jesus Christ((“God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.” (John 3:17)).SO; we have to see towards ourselves, inside of our heart, our wishes. So we can see that we all are sinned and are under the result of our sin which is death ("For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23)). So it is clear that we need to be saved from our sin. "The Savior—yes, the Messiah, the Lord—has been born today in Bethlehem, the city of David!" (Luk: 2:11), John 1:29).Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me” (John 14:6)
Blogger acermdg said...Nav? Rev 1:88 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."Nav who is Jesus or God the Father?Hello ...Assalamu alaikum ...I want to ask you .. do you know what is it about the book of Revelation? and do you know how it waas written? I will try to explain ....The book of Revelation is going to be the last statement....It is about an Apocalypse, a Prophecy, and an Epistle...Was written by someone called John...So this John had a Vision (maybe he dreamed about it) and in his vision he describes Jesus as a "Slain Lamb" and so on and on and on .........So everything he The John says us all are DREAMS.. Everybody can dream ...and in dreams man can be everybody or even anything ...So this is just a dream wich is not seen even by Jesus....So the prophet Jesus in his real life when he is awake never claim himself to be God....We dont care who dreams like that about him or who says about him like that....We do care what the prophet Jesus said himself while he was awake...........
samandar Turaev,It is the book of revelation and not the book of dreams plus dreams are not visions.Rev 1:8 Jesus says He is, He was and is to come the Almighty.
All these old books,,Should we be tied to and the animosities they describe?Keeping alive the old fueds and approaches to solve problems works for some.and toosome people think they are being religious by having lots of babies they can indoctrinate,some people think they are being religious by thinking Christianity (or other religion X) is the way... but christianity as all other religions seems to have cul de sacs where people get extreme.. and proclaim everyone thinking they are in another religion are susceptible to the most extreme form of that ever seen.People are so suseptible to "others are evil" that their have been deaths ... even in sophisticated european countries, even recently around sports games....we must fight fighting , we must trust trusting, we must live together
What happens to a person when he/she dies?
Good job people good job
GOD is IAM
It is awesome to know this things....
The Word of God is God Himself. Hold on to it Word and you see God in action by His Word
Not a scholar in anything, but i do follow a simple logic when presented.. The argument that Jesus was somehow a blended fabrication of greek and other pagan myths does seem true at first glance.. But we forget that the prophecies were written long before the greek civilizaton came into existence, long before their fables came to be..In light of this simple truth it is safe to concur that the reverse of the claim thet Jesus was an offshoot of other deities seem much more probable.. One truthful prophetic scripture, broken up into many similar offshoots that people now claim is the fore-runner of the christian faith
To answer midknight76.. I totally agree with you that Jesus' spirit did not die on the cross.. Even man, a living soul dies only once unless he is judged worthy for a second death which is the lake of fire, where you remain dead.. erased from existence.. totally wiped out.. its hard for me to come to terms with it, how an eternal "thing" can just die and fade away from existence completely.. It could be worse than i can possibly make it sound since it is God's wrath after all.. But think of it this way, Jesus, who had always been in the presence of his Father and shared his glory had to give up that position, which need i remind you, even satan, the once highest cherub coveted, to come to earth and live not as a ruler, but among the lowly... Imagine you giving up all the technological, monetary easy life you have and go living in a nameless village so remote that you don't even have access to clean water.. If that is not enough agony, imagine you building them something very useful, a water filter for example, from the filthiest places possible and getting them all clean and usable to the general good of the people only to have the people reject you claiming its some weird black magic and spreading hatred among people against you.. imagine knowing that the people who spread those lies were the ones who claim to be your closest friends to the general public only to steal your simple but marvelous invention to sell for a price so high that the people will have to settle for buying the water and not the filter, which you were giving away for free.. imagine the same crooked people gathering the innocent public with lies and deception with enough hatred towards you, that they demand your death and succeed in doing so, all the while the crooks are being paraded as heroes for something you did..Now that we got most of the emotional pains, granted, in a lousy and bad manner, we get to the physical pain... Again, none of his physical pain was needed, Just as the life is in the blood, a mercy killing with complete draining of blood and letting Jesus die would in a way be enough i would say.. But who would take that kind of a sacrifice seriously when the sacrifice on the cross itself is being ridiculed by a large number of people?..NO!! The pain and suffering was all ours to bear.. He simply had the grace to take it on Himself... "Greater love hath no man than this.." He said, and died loving us that same way... The horrible death was not only to make the prophecy come true (which again God allowed but not intended to happen.. free will of the people, just like the time God let adam and eve decide if they would obey Him or not), and just as much could have been so, so that no sane person could claim Bin Laden or any other person who died an unnatural death would be hailed as the messiah that the bible fore told..
just a note that my last message was to answer the one asking the atheists' view of the death on the cross.. not midknight76..
Paraphrasing the Koran: God is great,God is love, Which would you deny?(Note - this is a trick question. Can you figure it out?)
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