People are continuing to send me materials on Nadir. In this post, I'd like to consider Nadir's dealings with Rafael Princ, whom Nadir has backed down from repeatedly. (So much for Nadir's claim that everyone is running from him. In the following exchanges, we see that Nadir is the one running.)
DIALOGUE ONE: NADIR BACKS DOWN
Let's begin with an audio file, which can be heard by clicking here. Notice that Rafael challenges Nadir to debate him on the Bible and the Qur'an, and that Nadir changes the subject and backs down immediately.
DIALOGUE TWO: NADIR IS THE WORLD'S GREATEST MUSLIM DEBATER (IN HIS OWN MIND)
In this next exchange, Nadir declares that he is the greatest Muslim debater in the world. He also calls Shabir Ally a "fool" (not to mention a heretic) and says that all Muslims agree on this. (I find this strange, since when I attend a Shabir Ally debate, I see hundreds of Muslims there to support him. But when I attend a Nadir Ahmed debate, we can't even bribe Muslims to show up.)
rafa-el_1: up for a little debate now?
nadir_ahmed: wel.. kind of busy
nadir_ahmed: i thought you will invite me to your church
rafa-el_1: i need too practise material on you before debating this in public
rafa-el_1: yes I will
nadir_ahmed: ok.. when i receive the invitation you can practice on me
nadir_ahmed: you now know my arugments
nadir_ahmed: soo youre different
rafa-el_1: I already have rebutels too all of them
rafa-el_1: but the future will tell
nadir_ahmed: yea i know
rafa-el_1: nahh I will debate in januari the supject..original sin part of islam?
rafa-el_1: a hole other subject i will be dabting with you about
nadir_ahmed: do you plan to come to america ?
rafa-el_1: my first trip is too the UK...Will be talking with jay about the possibility's of debating in the usa
nadir_ahmed: do yo think jay is a good debater ?
nadir_ahmed: you might be able to land a job
nadir_ahmed: in anti-islamic apologetics
nadir_ahmed: like jay and sam
nadir_ahmed: just thnk you can get paid for the work you enjoy
rafa-el_1: That is not the kind of career I seek
nadir_ahmed: what kind of career do you want ?
rafa-el_1: I have amy master degree in psychology..this is a side thing for me
nadir_ahmed: do you think jay would support shamon for a debate ?
rafa-el_1: I think he would
rafa-el_1: because too be fair...sam is the one of the leading apoligist(against islam) out there
nadir_ahmed: but does jay think so ?
rafa-el_1: I don't think he will deny that sam is a great debator
rafa-el_1: but will ask him
nadir_ahmed: hm.. but i really dont see them supporting each other
nadir_ahmed: i think maybe
nadir_ahmed: they have different
nadir_ahmed: or something
rafa-el_1: some seek honour and fame in it
rafa-el_1: others don't
nadir_ahmed: who do you think do?
rafa-el_1: I am not able too judge that
rafa-el_1: who you think is the best islamic debatopr out there
rafa-el_1: besides yourself
nadir_ahmed: who do yo believe is the best islamic debater ?
rafa-el_1: depends which topic
nadir_ahmed: and tell the truth
rafa-el_1: on biblical subjects shabir ally....but he is coward too defend the quran
nadir_ahmed: you lied
nadir_ahmed: shabir is a fool
nadir_ahmed: and all muslism agree on that
nadir_ahmed: so you lied
rafa-el_1: shabir is a coward regarding his own Quran
rafa-el_1: you asked my opinion
nadir_ahmed: you lied about shabir and the bibe
nadir_ahmed: and you lied
rafa-el_1: so what got the opinion of all muslims got too do with it
nadir_ahmed: you know very well that shabir is a weak debator
rafa-el_1: so who you think is a good debater(besides yourself)
nadir_ahmed: and a heretic
nadir_ahmed: and a heretic
nadir_ahmed: almost apostate
rafa-el_1: isn't he a salafi like yourself
nadir_ahmed: hey.. i have to get some work done
nadir_ahmed: honesty is what will make you win
nadir_ahmed: and Glorify God
nadir_ahmed: not deception
nadir_ahmed: remember that
rafa-el_1: nadir we will see when you come here
rafa-el_1: with a duo respect..the sam shamoun debate wasn't anything compared what I will do with you
rafa-el_1: but with love
nadir_ahmed: shamon was humiliated
nadir_ahmed: i like that debate
nadir_ahmed: he huffs and puffs
rafa-el_1: me too
nadir_ahmed: and could not prove anything
rafa-el_1: lol ..he clearly was victorious
nadir_ahmed: sure..in style
nadir_ahmed: he won
nadir_ahmed: and charisma
nadir_ahmed: ok.. we will see what you can do
nadir_ahmed: ok... gota go
nadir_ahmed: take care
rafa-el_1: you too
nadir_ahmed is now offline.
DIALOGUE THREE: NADIR BACKS DOWN AGAIN
As everyone who interacts with Nadir knows, he seems to follow a standard pattern, which consists of the following steps:
Step One: Nadir challenges Christian X to a debate in an extremely boastful, rude manner. If Christian X refuses to debate because of Nadir's foul language, constant insults, lack of credentials, and lack of Muslim support, Nadir says that Christian X is running from his arguments.
Step Two: If Christian X, for whatever reason, agrees to debate, Nadir attempts to twist and mangle the topic and the debate format until the debate becomes absolutely unacceptable. If Christian X refuses to accept the debate due to Nadir's unreasonable and absurd terms, Nadir says that Christian X is running from his arguments. (For more on this, see "Nadir Ahmed's Amazing Debate Format.")
Step Three: If Christian X agrees to Nadir's outrageous terms and goes through with the debate, Nadir will be completely crushed in front of the audience. At the end of such humiliating defeats, Nadir will challenge Christian X to another debate. By this time, of course, Christian X is thoroughly fed up with Nadir and never wants to deal with him again. Christian X has also already defeated Nadir in public, which makes further humiliation unnecessary. At this point, Nadir declares to everyone that Christian X has refused to engage in another debate with him, and that this can only mean that Christian X is running from his arguments. (To see some examples of this, watch the end of Nadir's debates with Sam Shamoun and James White, where Nadir, sensing his total defeat, challenges both opponents to further debates. Nadir later says that they're running from him when they refuse.)
The following dialogue is a good illustration of Step Two. Rafael agrees to debate Nadir on whether Islam is from God, but Nadir insists that Rafael must not be allowed to offer evidence against Islam! Can anyone even imagine such a format? Wouldn't Muslims laugh at me if I said: "All right, we're going to have a debate on the Deity of Christ. I'm going to offer reasons for believing in the Deity of Christ, and my opponent is free to discuss my reasons. But under no circumstances is my opponent allowed to present evidence against the Deity of Christ." Nadir was obviously attempting to make the format unbearable, so that Rafael wouldn't agree to Nadir's ridiculous terms (at which point Nadir declares that Rafael is running from his arguments).
rafa-el_1: are you interested too debate me in CP his room?
rafa-el_1: there will be aprox 120 people
nadir_ahmed: topic ?
rafa-el_1: the evidence for islma
nadir_ahmed: and christianity.
rafa-el_1: nope you challenged james whit on the topic
nadir_ahmed: did you forget about Christianity ?
rafa-el_1: evidence for islam
rafa-el_1: so that will be our topic
nadir_ahmed: but no red dot
nadir_ahmed: and we will concentrate on the evidence i present
nadir_ahmed: and you must knock it down
rafa-el_1: I will bringn my evidence that islam isn't from God
nadir_ahmed: like i did with keith and james white
nadir_ahmed: that is a different debate
nadir_ahmed: trying to disprove islam is a different issue
nadir_ahmed: rather than focusing on it's evidences
nadir_ahmed: make up your mind
rafa-el_1: the topic will be...Is islam a religion from God
nadir_ahmed: did i attack PAUL?
nadir_ahmed: in the jame white debate
nadir_ahmed: with Keith hopkinds
nadir_ahmed: i NEVER attackd paul
rafa-el_1: you are too ignorant too attack paul
nadir_ahmed: or tried to disprove him
rafa-el_1: thats why you were smoked in those 2 debates
nadir_ahmed: well..i dont think so
nadir_ahmed: rather... i attacked
nadir_ahmed: what Christians present as evidence
nadir_ahmed: thats it
nadir_ahmed: however, I can disprove Paul
rafa-el_1: i will bring my objections
nadir_ahmed: . but that is a different debate
rafa-el_1: you will knock them down
rafa-el_1: If you knock down just 1 of mine arguments
rafa-el_1: I will become muslim
nadir_ahmed: that has nothing to do with the scientific, prophetic archaelogical evidence for Islam
nadir_ahmed: you are silly man.. who cares what you become
rafa-el_1: my arguments will contain science,historical etc
nadir_ahmed: ok... so you are running away from the evidence for Islam - need confirmation
nadir_ahmed: i will save this pm.. a young boy wants to see it
nadir_ahmed: he has some questions
rafa-el_1: I am challenging you sir
rafa-el_1: too debate me
nadir_ahmed: not on our evidences
rafa-el_1: is islam a religion of allah
nadir_ahmed: this boy named salman is smart
nadir_ahmed: he can see through your deception
nadir_ahmed: aalll the evidence points towards ---> Islam
rafa-el_1: nadir...if he is smart..he would see that you are the 1 running away
nadir_ahmed: thank yo
nadir_ahmed: must go
nadir_ahmed: last time
rafa-el_1: nadir come too the room...And I will show you that the Quran is unscientific,unhistorical etc
nadir_ahmed: you are not able to deal with the evidence which i present to you
nadir_ahmed: you are defeated.
nadir_ahmed: go away
rafa-el_1: bring it
nadir_ahmed: are you sure ?
rafa-el_1: nadir..everybody is laughing at you on platalk
nadir_ahmed: you must only deal with the evidence which i presnt to you
rafa-el_1: even muslims told me that they were embaresseed too see you run from me
nadir_ahmed: i dont think so
nadir_ahmed: i think you are dreaming
rafa-el_1: just ask around
nadir_ahmed: sure did
rafa-el_1: you will see
nadir_ahmed: they loooooooooooooooooove my debate with CP
nadir_ahmed: i get flowers and kisses all the time
nadir_ahmed: after i am done with you
nadir_ahmed: then I will smash that coward CP
rafa-el_1: done with me? than you have too stop running
nadir_ahmed: arab christains are a true joy
rafa-el_1: and fave me
nadir_ahmed: you are a small potato
nadir_ahmed: i should put you on ignore
nadir_ahmed: but yo are an arab christian
nadir_ahmed: and they are the most fun
nadir_ahmed: just becase of that
nadir_ahmed: i talk to you
rafa-el_1: doesn't it suck that I can read your Quran and you don't?
nadir_ahmed: because God has placed a very special type of stupidity in the Arab chrisitan
nadir_ahmed: it will do you nooooooooo good
nadir_ahmed: gota go
nadir_ahmed: take care
nadir_ahmed: ill come looking for you
nadir_ahmed: when the time is near.
rafa-el_1: keep running
rafa-el_1: run forest run
DIALOGUE FOUR: NADIR SAYS THAT CHRISTIANS ARE RUNNING FROM HIM, RAFAEL ONCE AGAIN AGREES TO DEBATE HIM, AND NADIR CHANGES THE SUBJECT
In the following dialogue, Nadir claims that he has a "huge support base." Where is this support base? Nadir once had to come on this blog under a false name to pretend that someone supports him.
Notice that Rafael again agrees to debate Nadir. What does Nadir do? Does he accept? Of course not. He changes the subject and tries to say that Sam Shamoun (who crushed him horribly here) is running from him. Follow Nadir's reasoning (or lack thereof). Nadir has a man repeatedly asking to debate him, and Nadir keeps backing down and changing the subject. Then, when he changes the subject, it's to show that everyone is scared to debate him!
Nadir is certainly one of a kind. We couldn't invent stuff like this if we tried.
rafa-el_1: lol...there are muslims that took that video serious?
rafa-el_1: wow they are dumber than I thought
nadir_ahmed: u bet
nadir_ahmed: in fact,
nadir_ahmed: there was a muslim from texas who was doubting his faith
nadir_ahmed: but now he is convinced
nadir_ahmed: after seeing athe christians run away
nadir_ahmed: he will be adding his testimony
nadir_ahmed: to that
nadir_ahmed: james white
nadir_ahmed: hasbeen expoosed
rafa-el_1: soo this 'muslim' doubted his faith...but when He sees a christian not willing too debate that topic WIT YOU. he becomes sure of his faith?
rafa-el_1: wow...talk about blind faith
nadir_ahmed: and sam shamoun
nadir_ahmed: i told him
nadir_ahmed: the evidence is unchallengable
nadir_ahmed: and the christians are hiding
rafa-el_1: I will detae you on that topic
nadir_ahmed: he saw it for himself
nadir_ahmed: did you know
nadir_ahmed: that when i went to challenge sam shamon
nadir_ahmed: about 2 years ago
nadir_ahmed: i went to his office
nadir_ahmed: and he hid in a back room ?
nadir_ahmed: i had 2 girls with me
rafa-el_1: you went too a mens working place?
nadir_ahmed: and htey were laughing at him
rafa-el_1: dor you have no respect?
rafa-el_1: that is called invadind privacy
nadir_ahmed: i was very respectful
nadir_ahmed: not really
nadir_ahmed: he HID IN A BACK ROOM!
nadir_ahmed: soo i stood around
rafa-el_1: first of all...I don't believe you,but when this is infact true,it doesn't proof anything
nadir_ahmed: for about 35 minutes
nadir_ahmed: please ask him
nadir_ahmed: he will admit to it
rafa-el_1: like I already stated..I am more than happy too debate muhammad
nadir_ahmed: becausse all his friends were asking him to come out
nadir_ahmed: but he wouldnt
nadir_ahmed: we are talking about sam
nadir_ahmed: not you
rafa-el_1: ok sam doesn't want too debate you
nadir_ahmed: email him
nadir_ahmed: HE HID IN A BACK ROOM!!
rafa-el_1: so what?
rafa-el_1: what point are you trying too make
rafa-el_1: or are you just trying too boast?
nadir_ahmed: boasting.. laughing..
nadir_ahmed: it is real incidents like that
rafa-el_1: nadir...everybody in the room and paltalk laughs at you for running from me
nadir_ahmed: which speak louder than words
rafa-el_1: you don't see me baosting about that
nadir_ahmed: i dont think anyone sees you as a condenter
nadir_ahmed: or someone who is a great challenge
nadir_ahmed: but u are just a guy on paltalk
nadir_ahmed: nothing mroe
nadir_ahmed: and your apologists
nadir_ahmed: run away
nadir_ahmed: from me
rafa-el_1: nadir...after your debate with sam shamoun,james white...you have became a laughing stoke
nadir_ahmed: james white
nadir_ahmed: sam shamoun
rafa-el_1: only david wood is willing too debate you
nadir_ahmed: talk is cheap
nadir_ahmed: the young man from texas didnt buy it
nadir_ahmed: and no one will
nadir_ahmed: keep it up
nadir_ahmed: gota go
nadir_ahmed: dont forget to save this pm
nadir_ahmed: and send it to fat boy shamoun
rafa-el_1: nadir just want too respond section of the debates you hadwith them
nadir_ahmed: and he will accept
rafa-el_1: even the muslims are apoligizing for you
nadir_ahmed: that he hid
nadir_ahmed: i got a huge support base
nadir_ahmed: good bye
rafa-el_1: most muslims I talk too aren't taking you seriously
nadir_ahmed is now offline.
These four dialogues show Nadir's complete inconsistency. When Nadir challenges someone to a debate, the conversation usually goes something like this:
NADIR: "Hey, Mr. Christian Scholar! You have to debate me! I'm Islam's greatest debater! All other Muslim debaters suck compared to me! And if you don't debate me, you're a coward! Now debate me so I can expose your filthy religion!"
CHRISTIAN SCHOLAR: "Wow, you behave like a child. I'm simply not interested in debating people who behave like children. Besides, I contacted some Muslims about you, and most of them have no clue who you are. Those who know you told me that you're one of the worst debaters who's ever lived, and that the Muslim community has absolutely no respect for you. Beyond this, you have no credentials whatsoever, you constantly insult your opponents, and some people think you're insane."
NADIR: "LOL! LLLLOOOOOOOLLLLL! I knew you were a coward! You're running from my arguments! Just like all the other Christian cowards who backed down from me! Look, when someone challenges you to a debate, you have to accept! If you don't accept, you're a fat coward! It's that simple! Coward! Coward! Coward!"
But what happens when Nadir is challenged? As we've seen, the conversations go something like this:
CHRISTIAN: "Nadir, I challenge you to debate me."
NADIR: "Um, let's talk about someone else. Hey, that Sam Shamoun is running from me!"
CHRISTIAN: "You mean the same Sam Shamoun who humiliated you in one of the most one-sided debates in history?"
NADIR: "Yeah, that's him. He's scared to death of me. I went to his office and he hid from me."
CHRISTIAN: "So are you going to debate me or not?"
NADIR: "Not so fast. There's some other Christian on the internet who said something false about me one time. I'd like to focus on him for a while."
CHRISTIAN: "He doesn't want to debate you. But I do. I'm right here. Come on. Let's do this."
NADIR: "Um, did I mention Sam Shamoun already? He's scared of me."
If someone refuses to debate Nadir because he has no credentials, is a complete liar, has no support from the Muslim community, has no knowledge of either Christianity or Islam, and behaves like a nine-year-old boy, Nadir says he must be scared. Yet when someone challenges Nadir, again and again, to debate a basic topic, and Nadir actually runs out of the room, this is somehow completely reasonable. Then Nadir goes around telling everyone that Christians are scared of him. Is it just me, or is this absolutely pathetic?