If you thought that Nadir Ahmed's career ended after his humiliating defeat at the hands of Sam Shamoun, you're wrong. Nadir, in an effort to redeem himself, travelled to Phoenix, entered James White's church, and challenged him to a debate. While James didn't want to debate someone with absolutely no credentials, no standing in the Muslim community, and no respect from either Christians or Muslims, Nadir had crossed the line. Hence, one of Christianity's most experienced apologists agreed to debate one of Islam's most embarrassing characters. However, even those who know about Nadir couldn't have predicted how low he would sink in this debate. By the time the Q&A period rolled around, Nadir's fellow Muslims couldn't contain their embarrassment.
Interestingly, Nadir has defended his atrocious behavior here. It seems that sticking to a topic, respecting one's audience, not making a fool of oneself, etc., are Western values, which, according to Nadir, have no place in Islam.
(Note: For those who want to know what Nadir is talking about when he says that he heard from someone that Nabeel had accused him of practicing Muta, I happen to know where this misunderstanding came from. A couple of years ago, Nadir somehow managed to convince Nabeel's parents that he is a respected scholar of Islam. Nabeel, however, knew the truth: that Nadir knows virtually nothing about Islam and that some of his fellow Muslims think he is insane. In order to show his mother that Nadir is not respected, Nabeel pointed to an article on the Answering Christianity website which said that Nadir claims that sex with animals is acceptable in Islam. The only point was to show that people in the Muslim community have no respect for Nadir. Somehow, over the following months, Nabeel's mother confused the issue of sex with animals with the problem of Muta--Muhammad's [later retracted] claim that prostitution is acceptable, provided the men marry the women for the duration of their sexual activities. Nabeel's mom conveyed this misunderstanding to Nadir, who, instead of talking to Nabeel about the issue, chose instead to bring it up in the middle of his first debate with a Christian scholar--a debate on the reliability of the New Testament. Such behavior is, of course, utterly unacceptable, and Muslims are almost universally turning their backs on Nadir. Others are wondering why Nadir gets so emotional when the Muta issue is raised. After all, Nadir seems pleased when people accuse him of being demon possessed or mentally unstable. He wears such attacks as a badge of honor. Yet when someone is misunderstood as accusing him of practicing Muta, Nadir goes berserk. As Hamlet's mother would say, "The [man] doth protest too much, methinks." Anyway, if you thought that two humiliating defeats would finally convince Nadir that he needs to stop embarrassing himself and his religion, you're wrong again. Nadir is once again trying to make a comeback. He'll be doing two debates with Pastor Daniel Scot in September. Oh boy . . .)
27 comments:
Nadir is a USDA Grade a NUT. I have chatted with him a few times on paltalk. This guy needs to take his meds. It wouldnt surpise me to find this guy wearing a tin foil helmet or someday strapping on a few pounds of C4.
Hmmm I personally do not know Nadir and so could not possibly comment upon either his sanity nor his general methodology (having only heard two of his debates).
However what I will say is that, as soon as I heard he was willing to debate Sam Shamoun, I became a little concerned for his sincerity. However he claims that it was for similar reasons to Shabir's reasons for debating Dave Hunt.
I will actually acknowledge Sam Shamoun did win over Nadir in that Debate, but I believe more people should have spoken out against George Saieg's poor etiquette at the end in trying to resurrect a debate in the closing speech.
Is Nadir still debating on 9:11 as Ministry to Muslims announced at the end of the last debate?
Yahya,
I agree that George shouldn't have started the debate again after it was clearly over.
I think Nadir is debating on Saturday, September 13th.
Yahya,
If you're not familiar with Nadir, you don't know what you're missing! He claims to be the only Muslim debater in America. He also says that Shabir Ally is a "dummy" and that debating him is like debating "someone's grandma." I find this absolutely shocking. Shabir always gives his opponents a run for their money, and Nadir, lately, has done nothing but embarrass himself. He's also the only Muslim I've ever met that I just can't manage to get along with.
That was painful to watch.
Dr. White must have had to duck taped his head to keep it from exploding!
I'm not quite sure what to say in response to this... I think in the future Nadir should bring a mirror to his debates and just talk into it for everyone's entertainment, since he couldn't seem to register anything James was saying and seems to think that increasing the bombast of a baseless assertion somehow makes it an argument.
Personally I hope that he sticks around since he makes our job that much easier!
hi
David, I have to admit that I am a bit dismayed by the venom and hatred you have towards me. You need to help me out here David... I think I made it clear that I am sponsored by Islamic Center of Peoria:
http://www.islamiccenterofpeoria.org/openletter.asp
what I do not understand... is that out Imam also made it clear that if anyone has any concerns about me then they should direct it to the Mosque board and they will arrange a meeting to address whatever concerns you or any others may have, yet... no one has come forward. Why is this? Why do people hide behind message boards? This is not the honorable way to handle matters. If what you are saying about me is reallly true.. then I will contact our Imam and we can set up a meeting..
And guess what!! You are in luck David - because this weekend we are having an Imam conference where I will be making a presentation on ExamineTheTruth.com debates and many of supporters of the website will be there... Now keep in mind, David made the following claim:
"While James didn't want to debate someone with absolutely no credentials, no standing in the Muslim community..."
So here is what I can do for you - I can arrange a conference call where you can address youre concerns to the general body..ok? And we will find out who is truthful.
Please let me know to procede. I will email you my cell phone #.
Thanks,
Nadir Ahmed
www.ExamineTheTruth.com
Nadir,
I know you want attention, but do you really think anyone cares enough about your debates to take these issues in front of a conference?
Keep debating, Nadir. You're annoying, childish, and egomaniacal, but at least you're not boring.
I am going to call this idiot's bluff. Post the number here and I will go your imam. I will be waiting.
As for this coward James White... you will find that I don't kiss his @#$2 like Shabir Ally. Actually, there are a lot of people who do that... but I won't mention anymore names.
James White was *exposed* for the fraud which he is when he ran away from the archaelogical, prophetic and scientific evidence for Islam.
And as for your poor attempt to defend James White's flight... saying well, Nadir is just not represented enough(or something like that).. well.. I think you should read this:
http://www.islamiccenterofpeoria.org/extruth.asp
And of course... no one is going to buy such silly excuses. So it is clear.. these Christian charlatans like White know the truth of Islam.. and their deception was exposed in that debate...
As for Nabeel.. and the Christian chanting:
"Nadir broke etiquette and decorum.. you Muslims should be soooooo embarrassed!!! Get rid of him now before he does anymore damage... :)"
I could care less. Because I have a job to do - and that is create dawa tools. By confronting Nabeel... and exposing his deception...because that will help shake loose the false faith in the New Testament of the average person in the pew.
When people see such low under-handed behavior coming from spiritual leaders... it raises a lot of disturbing questions in their minds ... and it shows them a side of Christians they have never seen before...
So.. the take home message of this debate, Christians scholars are afraid of something about Islamic evidences and even worse - they have to resort to such low behavior ...
So.. this debate is a multi prong attack against a Christians faith in the New Testament.. a very powerful tool indeed. And of course, last but not least.. the most important fact is that the New Testament was proved to be a book of 100% blind faith...
And we will be sure to use this debate in our evangelism.
Thanks,
Nadir Ahmed
www.ExamineTheTruth.com
Does anyone see the irony here? I've made comments about Nadir's public debate, which is surely a matter for public discussion. Yet he has sent me his cell phone number, as if I'm only supposed to discuss his public performance in a private discussion with him and his Muslim friends.
But think about what Nadir did in his debate with James White. Surely, if Nadir has something to say to Nabeel, he should have said it in private. And yet Nadir made the issue public--in the middle of a debate no less!
Now let's review Nadir's position. If Nadir makes a fool of himself in public, I must not address the matter publicly. But if Nadir thinks Nabeel has said something in private, the appropriate place to raise the issue is in public.
Does anyone understand how Nadir's mind works? It's as if his neurons aren't connected in the same way as anyone else's.
Ben Malik, you can find his number and email address on the link which I provided:
http://www.islamiccenterofpeoria.org/openletter.asp
And some more bad news Ben. After you get done talking to Shaikh Amr... I will have a list of more Mosques you will need to contact. And if you like Ben.. you can call in on a conference call for my presentation this weekend.. I would like to get your views for everyone to listen to.
And... dont forget about the upcoming debate... I will go in detail on how Islam came to CONFRONT and CONDEMN the genocide and terrorism of Biblical Christianity.
Thanks,
Nadir Ahmed
www.ExamineTheTruth.com
James White ran from having a second debate with you???
Let's review, Nadir. You had twenty minutes to give an opening statement. You rambled for about seven and then sat down.
Later in this debate on the reliability of the New Testament, you started defending yourself against charges of Muta--charges that Nabeel never raised against you.
And now you say that this was somehow meant to destroy people's belief in the New Testament. Well, let's just say you failed more miserably than anyone has ever failed at anything--ever. How many Christians are shook up about their faith because you started rambling about Muta in the middle of a debate? Don't you realize that Christians left that room laughing at you, and that Muslims were complaining that they were so poorly represented (just as the Muslims in California were complaining that you had poorly represented Islam in your debate with Sam)?
And you think that James is somehow obligated to debate you again? Nadir, James gets debate invitations all the time. It was amazing that he agreed to debate you in the first place, considering that no one, Christian or Muslim, takes you seriously. But on top of this, in the middle of your debate, you took "Off Topic" to a whole new level and started talking about charges of prostitution!!!
Nadir, you're getting a chance to debate in September--not because anyone wants to hear you debate, but because ACP agreed to it nearly a year ago. I'll be surprised if Muslims don't boycott the event. Once these debates are over, so is your career. You will never, ever have another chance to debate a Christian scholar, because every Christian scholar will see that you don't obey even the most basic rules of decency.
But if I can help you continue debating, I'll certainly do it. You're one of Christianity's greatest assets.
Nadir,
You said you'll be speaking at the conference. Please post your talk on YouTube. I promise I'll add it to my blog.
Thanks, I will call that mosque and document that you are a liar.
But first, give me the names of other mosques and email your cell at, ben_malik3@hotmail.com
Hmmm David,
Perhaps you know Nadir more than I do and hence are in situation in which you know how to answer him on a level which suits the way he acts around you. However I would say it seems a little harsh, I'm not excusing Nadir's incident in the James White Debate, but I think we need to be equally harsh when the offense is comitted on our own turf. For Example, Nabeel's rude outburst in which he mocked a fake Arab accent, which was completely unwarranted. Also the behaviour of Sam Shamoun in most debates.
Yahya,
No one has rebuked Nabeel more harshly than I have. But at the end of the day, it was only one mistake--a poor attempt at humor. Have you visited Nadir's website? And Sam can testify that I always point out when he's out of line, just as my Christian brothers tell me when I'm out of line.
You've said (1) that you don't really know Nadir, and (2) that I'm being a little harsh. Notice that no one who knows Nadir (Christian or Muslim) says I'm being too harsh. Do you know what Nadir did after his debate with James? He ran around the room pointing his finger at people and loudly calling James a coward. When Nadir disagrees with someone, it's only a matter of time before he calls them a "pedophile" or something else.
Hence, I think I'm hardly being too harsh when I tell him that he made a fool of himself. As a matter of fact, he did make a fool of himself. I'm not making any false accusations here. I'll simply add that, if he were a Christian, I would be far, far more harsh with him. It's strange, then, that Muslims aren't more vocal in their disapproval.
Yahya, a.k.a., the cowardly Shia, speaks. I know Shamoun is your nightmare but you need to stop lying since you are not talking to Shias who will allow you to get away with it.
Since you say most debates please document here the debates where Shamoun has conducted himself in a less than ideal fashion. I am calling your bluff like I did last time since I enjoy exposing liars and connivers who are being good Muslims.
I will wait for the evidence which you have none.
David,
You cannot trust what Yahya says since he has perfected the art of lying as a good Shia. Here, he makes it sound as if he doesn't really know whether Nadir is as bad you say, but in another post the cowardly Shia said this:
Let Nadir Ahmed and this guy continue their exchanges, I think they are on a level together.
He said this in reference to Shamoun. So if Nadir is on Shamoun's level, and since we all know what the Cowardly Shia's view of Shamoun, then this means that Nadir is a very low-level character, which means that Yahya basically agrees with your assessment, David.
See, he can't even keep up with his own lies since he is simply interested in discrediting the guy he fears more than his own pagan idol whom he worships as God, Shamoun, and so doesn't mind abrogating himself in perfect imitation of his nonexistent God.
And isn't it funny that Yahya begins many of his posts with the words hmmm? He sounds like a cartoon character and his posts read like a comic strip. He even has a picutre which looks like it came out of comic book! Coincidence? I think not. :-)
David,
I'm glad you show a degree of moral consistancy when it comes to calling out those who show extremely bad etiquette both in the Christian World and in the Muslim World. I think that one should never be hell bent on proving their case to the extent of compromising on their own moral values.
I am extremely happy with both your conduct as well as the conduct of Dr. White when it comes to your etiquette in debates.
As for Ben Malik a.k.a Sam Shamoun,
It's ironic that we don't even need to inform David as to occasions in which you have demonstrated your incapability to act either candidly nor in a civil manner hence it is worthless entering any real discussion with you.
As for me knowing Nadir Ahmed, as I've said I've watched two of his debates, the first actually gave me a good impression of Shamoun (which even caused me to email Shamoun to congratulate him on his performance), however ever since I have witnessed Shamoun's true behaviour which I honestly believe is indicative of dishonesty and genuine scorn towards anyone challenging Christianity.
Notice his Christianly attempt of showing love to his neighbour here:
first he refers to my God as a Pagan Idol and secondly makes a mockery of my physical appearance, I honestly am not surprised.... I just hope some Christians have the sense to speak out against his foul behaviour.
I could have easily commented upon Shamoun's appearance but have chosen not too.
Yahya,
Instead of appealing to emotions and poisoning the well why not back up your assertions and lies for a change? I can't accuse you of being a bad Muslim when you lie and slander people since Islam teaches you to do this.
Do I have to go through the entire site to document how you started attacking Shamoun and also myself? I would love to do so since I won't hesitate to provide further documentation that you are a liar.
Secondly, did you bother reading the following link which I posted to prove that it was your Muslim cronies who started up with insults, the blasphemies, and the attacks on Shamoun and others?
http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/zawadi_puberty3.htm
Now, instead of whining and appealing to emotions can you please for the love of your martyr Husayn document your accusations for a change? Please shock me and stand up for your religion and prove your case for once.
I won't be holding my breath.
Ben Malik,
It matters not whether or not I'm appealing to emotions, I'm not engaging in a debate with you here... I'm commenting on your general etiquette, and since you have demonstrated your unwillingness to enter into Debate in a candid or civil manner then there is really no point furthering this discussion with you. Go on throw in another insult should you so choose to do so, because it's really what you are best at from what I have observed.
As for the link, well I can't really disprove what you have said and I don't know Sami Zaatari personally, I've heard he has made many mistakes in the past though, so perhaps the link you have provided does document actual sayings of their's, Allahu Alim. However it doesn't justify any insult from you about me, just because Muslims show poor behaviour doesn't require you to act similarly if not worse.
As for your debates, anyone who visits Paltalk should be familiar with your conduct. However your comment on my physical appearance and constant derogatory references to the God of the Qur'an all serve as information which can only reiterate your true colours.
Please do document where I have slandered Shamoun and I shall apologise for any slander I have done, since I do not believe in compromising on my own morality.
Thirdly don't attempt to start a debate with me yet again, I can only repeat myself in hopes of you one day learning that I do not debate with people who show no real concern for factual information nor an integrity for moral behaviour and decency.
Yahya,
I do appreciate your tone here and only wished you had expressed yourself to me in a similar manner from the very start. If you recall, you started attacking me and Shamoun when I engaged Bassam, which you had no right to do.
Anyway, the past is past and I will try to move forward by refraining from making direct comments concerning your person, provided you reciprocate.
All
I have heard a recording of Nadir's IMAN throwing him under the bus. Someone did call his Mosq and spoke with the Head Iman in which he completley denied any support for him. He said words to the effect "Nadir does things on his own, he does not have any connection with this mosq." (I'm quoting from memory so this might not be a exact quote.)
I know this recording exists, it can be produced if needed. The recording was made with out the callers knowlege. Parts of it are even on a youtube video that Nadir made.
David
As someone who has a child that suffers from ADD I recognize the signs of it in Nadir. He really does need to take medication. Any muslim or christian who supports this guy debating is only enabling a mentaly ill person in his own psychosis. Nadir may I sugjest you ask your Dr. about FOCALIN. It worked wonders for my child. I'm not saying this to be meen. Well maybe I am just a little. But really man you need definite medical help.
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