North Korea--Majority Irreligious/Atheist
Eritrea--Population Divided between Muslims and Christians
Nigeria--Majority Muslim (Large Minority Christian)
China--Mixture of Many Beliefs
Saudi Arabia--Majority Muslim
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A U.S. government panel listed 13 countries Friday as "egregious" violators of religious freedom.
Homeless Pakistani Christians protest last month in Islamabad for protection of Christian minorities.
The U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom's annual report named Myanmar, North Korea, Eritrea, Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, Pakistan, China, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Vietnam. READ MORE.
What a suprise! most of these countries are Isalmic. Who would have ever guessed that Isalm is intollerant of other faiths after being told that Isalm is a religion of peace, Mohammed was a man of peace and there is no compulsion in religion ;-)
The two buddhist entries are a surprise although I'd put it down to politics rather than the religion itself.
Yes countries that are against god often do persecute those that wish to follow him.
I noticed that buddhism isn't as peaceful as I thought it was.
there is no compulsion in religion True, there is no compulsion in religion to not behead infidels and apostates.
That's right, nma: not only is there no compulsion in religion to not behead infidels and apostates; there doesn't need to be compulsion for a Muslim to engage in such activity...they are only too willing and eager to do it.
In a way I see Islam as a form of institutionalized arrogance. It goes around belittling everyone else and basically stealing everyone/everything associated with the Bible. Should it be a shock that Muslims have no respect for other religions when they read the Quran?
With at worst an Islamic Socialist in the White House or a best an Islamic Socialist Sympathizer the persecution of Christians in the world will only increase .Both the media and our political leaders in both the United States and Canada lack the courage to warn the public about the growing threat of Islam. For example will either county dare offend the Saudis about their persecution of non-Muslims when we are addicted to their oil?
To use Fernando's hilarious terminology, the responses I see in this post are pretty "foony".
With respect to the lack of religious freedom in SOME non-muslim countries, the bigots here conclude, without really thinking about it, that politics is the culprit. When it comes to SOME muslim countries, however, it is Islam!?!
Brunei, Malaysia and Bangladesh, to name a few, are Muslim majority countries(and there are many Muslim countries in the world). Yet, I don't see them on the list. So which bigot here will grant that Islam is the reason why religious tolerance exists in these nations?
BTW the CNN article also mentions Cuba, Russia and Venezula. The last time I checked, these were all Christian nations. Figures.
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!
You can't state that persecution on Christians in e.g. Arabia is due to Politic and not islam, the same goes for Pakistan and Iran.
As to Bangladesh it has not been as islamasized by radicals as Pakistan has, but Christians have certainly been persecuted in Bangladesh, especially at the moment when hundreds of thousands of Bengali muslims are becoming Christians.
As to Cuba, it is not a Christian country as far as I know, there are Christians yeah, but it has been ruled by an atheist government for decades, and the victims have been Christians.
In Venezuela the new government is anti-Christian, several of my missionary friends in Venezuela have had to leave the country, so ones again, this is not a Christian ruling, but probably a more atheistic, and once more the victims are primarily Christians.
I am not to sure about the situation in Russia, Christians have enjoyed freedom and peace now for two decades, since the fall of communism, perhaps in Russia muslims are being targeted, I hope not, but don't compare this with persecution on Christians in Saudia Arabia, Pakistan or Venezuela, those Christians have not blown up schools or massacred school children. Not that I defend persecution anywere, I pointing out merely that Christians are ussually not targeted because of terrorism or rebellion against the government but simply for being Christians; this is ussually not the case with those who follow islam.
Are are are are So Ibn claims that we are all bigots because we simply state that the majority of countries with the worst record for religious persecution by Muslim countries. It seems as though our friend Ibn is neglecting the tenets of his own religion. S. Solomon & E. Alamaqdisi their entitled ‘The Mosque Exposed” state the following “the in Islam the very idea of "choice" is not only an anathema, but it is regarded as an anti-Islamic concept. Freedom of “choice” is not exist; neither is religion a private nor personal matter.
Solomon & Alamaqdisi, go on to state the following “in Islam, life and religion are deeply intertwined and inseparable. If a Muslim disregards his religion for another it is regarded as the highest treason and punishable by death in Islamic law”. They continue, "the issue of no compulsion in religion often quoted by Muslims when freedom of religion is discussed is a convenient phrase. It is part of sura two verse 56. This and other similar verses that Mohammed stated earlier in his preaching that proclaim flexibility have all been abrogated and replaced by major revelations, according to Islamic Jurisprudence and revered authorities on Quranic expositors".
What Ibn is ignoring the those Islamic countries that are persecuting non-Muslims are simply following. Whereas the Christian countries that he named are not following the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Of course it is easy to call a person a bigot and anti-Islamic because they dare expose Islam for what it is. And by the way Ibn I am proud to say “I am anti-Islamic but I am not anti-Muslim”. As a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ on must be opposed to any religious system that would deny the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
And what does Obama plan on doing regarding these "'egregious' violators of religious freedom"?
Talk. Just talk.
I honestly think that one day the United States will be on that list. It seems as though Americans like to play the "enlightened" card and claim that they're completely tolerant of religious views, yet many attack Christianity and even other religions for having exclusive, "intolerant" views. Ironically, expressing outrage for the "intolerance" of exclusive views is, in itself, intolerant. (And now I'm sick of the word 'intolerant'.)
Plus, word on the street is that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the Western World. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but there's probably some truth to it.
And what does Obama plan on doing regarding these "'egregious' violators of religious freedom"?
Talk. Just talk.
And what did Geroge W. Bush do? Oh thats right Iraq and Afganistan. Iraqi chritians are under heavy persecution, they werent under Saddam. In afganistan it is a crime punishable by death to convert from islam. Yeah glowing success there. What did Bill Clinton do? What did Geroge Bush Sr do? What did Ronald Regan do?
What makes you think that any president should do anything? And more importatnly what should be done?
Fat Man, my point is that Obama, the current President, has nothing substantive to offer regarding these nations other than talk. This list is the current one so I am addressing the current President. Referencing past Presidents and their failures/successes to effectively address similar counties during their terms in office is a political red herring. I stand by my point that Obama has nothing but talk and as has been shown, talk with most of those countries (especially with Muslim-controlled governments) is considered a sign of significant weakness to be exploited.
Ibn > “Brunei, Malaysia and Bangladesh, to name a few, are Muslim majority countries(and there are many Muslim countries in the world). Yet, I don't see them on the list. So which bigot here will grant that Islam is the reason why religious tolerance exists in these nations?”What I find ironic is the constantly shifting definition of the of the term “Muslim countries” used by Muslim. Whenever a country can be cited to support a Muslims argument it is suddenly a “Muslim country” and whenever a country can be cited to refute Islamic claims it is suddenly “not really Muslim”, or “not practicing Islam properly”. Before delving into the logic of your argument let’s look at one of the countries you cite. Bangladesh:
Pastor’s wife gang-raped by Muslims; Persecution of Hindus; YouTube video of Ahmadiyya persecution; Pressure from Muslims eroding religious freedomThe question that should not be overlooked is, what happened historically, that first brought Islam to Bengladesh? It’s clear that if Bangladesh is what you are pointing to for religious tolerance in Islam neither history nor present reality support it.
Ibn > “BTW the CNN article also mentions Cuba, Russia and Venezula. The last time I checked, these were all Christian nations. Figures.”There is no such thing. Cuba is communist, and by historical definition this makes Cuba an atheist state. It was just a short time ago that Cuba allowed the pope to visit, which was seen as a tacit recognition that catholicism would be quietly tolerated there. The Communist regime in Cuba has been officially atheist since 1959. Do you know who is primarily persecuted in Cuba? Christians. Who is being persecuted in Venezuela? Christians as well. You can get a synopsis of Chavez’s motives here. You can read about the Jewish community in Venezuela here. Notice their persecution is linked to pro-Palestinian sentiment, and also notice that Chavez has allowed Hizbullah to operate in Venezuela [link] [link] [link]. It seems the presence of an Islamic group in Venezuela coincides with violence against Jews. Big shock right?
Ibn > “Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!”My thoughts exactly, as you have provided just enough ammunition to shoot yourself right in the mouth. Baruch Adonai, Ibn. Feel free to pass me some more ammunition anytime you like.
If we have any Mexican, or Mexican American readers- Mejores deseos en el Cinco de Mayo :D
Hi David, I heard that you were co-hosting the Iron Sharpens Iron broadcast today? Is that right?
Once again Ibn has to bite the dust.
The point is you said that President Obama will do nothing but talk. So what else can be done? Should we invade these countries? Should we impose sanctions? What can be done that has not already been done by previous administrations?
You said that looking to past administrations "failures/successes...is a political red herring."
I'm sorry I dont find history to be a red hearing. Looking at past administratiosn success and failures is something that should be done. Something our last president didnt seem to get.
But again I asked the question what should be done, and better yet why should the US do anything?
Just a disclaimer, I did vote for Obama, not because i like his forgin or domestic policy. But because the Republican party under Bush and the Neocons went way off the reservation. And I had hoped that my single vote in a state that voted overwelmiling for Obama. Would some how signal to the republican leadership that it needs to get back to the Party of Lincoln and Regan. But alas it doesnt look like the "Ditto" heads like to listen.
One more thing and my appolgies David and Nabeel. I know this isnt a polictical blog. However I must point out to Carl. That I do find it intersting that the ditto heads critizize (rightfully so) the presidents huge budget defficit. However they do not and will not critisize our past presidents huge defficit budgets. Nothing happens in a vacume. Remember it was our previous president(a conservative) who ran a huge budget defficit for seven of his eight years in office. We may not be able to afford Obama, but we definitly can not afford another conservative neo con president.
Remember it was under Bush that the first Tarp money was approved. Remember it was under Bush that the Sky was falling and we needed to bail out AIG to the tune of a $100 plus billion seperate from 700 + Billion that went into the TARP. Oh by the way do you know where the majority of the 180Billion to AIG went. It went straight into the coffers of european banks. Thats right we bailed out the financial system of such wonderful supportive allies like France. But I guess that too is just a political red hearing.
Nakdimon said: "Hi David, I heard that you were co-hosting the Iron Sharpens Iron broadcast today? Is that right?"
That's the word on the street.
Last second change. See new post :-)
Carl one more thing, I will tell you from a political perspective the two tings that historicaly do work. TALK, and contaimnet. But then again I'm a practical pessimist. Not a do gooder crusader.
This may not be popular, becasue it doesnt involve sreaming f-16, and A1 Abrams tanks. But the best thing to do, if you want to defeat islam, on a political level or any other barbaric political theology is let it defeat itself. Let the muslim countries have there Islam, let them have all the islam they can handle and when they choke on it let them have more.
Let christians be persecuted, report on it, let the blood of the Martyrs be a witness to Christ. Do not rob Christ of his witness that speaks the loudest when it is in BLOOD.
I tell you the truth, it is moraly wrong, to morn our maytyrs. Instead we should thank God that they lived.
As christians we should do what you can to expose the persecutions, but in the end Christ will overcome as he always does, not by the sword, or polictical coersions or concesions. But through the blood and oh yes there will be blood.
As christians we need to come to the realization that this is going to be bad, very bad. If you can not handle with restraint the news of persecution of others in forgien lands. Then what makes you think you can handle with restraint when the persecution comes for you.
If on hearing of persecutions of Chritians in forgien lands your first impules is to say "What is My government going to do about it?". Then I ask the question, what forgein government did the Chritians appeal to under Roman persecution. Did they run to governments of Persia or even China to plead for diplomatic or even military solutions?
There is no forgien political or military solution to the persecutions of christians in another country. Only contaiment and exposure or appeasment through concessions. I am in favor of the former not the latter.
There is no political or military solution to islam. Only muslims can leave islam, and they will only do that when they are faced with 7th century barbarism that is Islam.
Fat Man, you still fail to see my point so I will just have to accept that we will just have to agree to disagree and move on.
The Fat Man said:
The point is you said that President Obama will do nothing but talk. So what else can be done? Should we invade these countries? Should we impose sanctions? What can be done that has not already been done by previous administrations?Well, Obama and Biden could stop being soft on Islamic jihadists while being hard on Israel. Turning against Israel will not solve anything; it only worsen the situation in the Middle East. Obama's making things worse through every action he takes, not better. But what do you expect from a man whose experience lies with his former community organizer title?
I think Fatman, Stephenie and Carl have all made valid points.
I think I would probably give Fatman the edge on this one though. We can criticize the presidents all we like, but it won't change anything. It is a perpetual story of failure when it comes to politics.
Christians don't place their hope in a president but in Jesus Christ. In saying that we can still be a light to the nations, and in this case the USA, so it is a good thing for Christians to speak up about these things. Eventually though, the whole world will head down the plunger of destruction.
The pace at which the world is being shaped and changed is shockingly fast. As the world continues to decay we set our hope on our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We might have thought we had seen tragedy and martyrdom. We haven't seen anything yet. We are in for a global bloodbath. But praise the Lord, Jesus Christ is on the throne. He will vindicate the testimony of His people.
Good points Royal Son. It makes me think, while Muhammed promised his followers conquest and wealth, Yeshua promised his followers suffering and persecution for his message.
Royal Son said
"I think I would probably give Fatman the edge on this one though."
Well thanks but really I live by the creed "If I haven’t made you angry then I haven’t done my job"
It’s just that I get a little upset when ever I hear Christians insinuate divine authority for one political candidate over another.
Politics is a beast, it is nasty dirty place. Political solutions more often then not seek to satiate the appetites of a few, and then look for justifications for those solutions. Politicians more often then not choose a course, and then come up with ways to justify that course. Or bend to the appetites or will of the people, to satiate a politicians or parties need for a position.
When it comes to Christians suffering we have to just let it bleed. I know this goes against every core of our collective being. However let the blood speak.
Blood in we are saved, and blood out we will call others to salvation.
Let me ask you; all who read this post. Why are you a Christian?
If you became a Christian for wealth then I say you should have become a finance banker.
Was it because you’re a smart gambler. How many of you have said "I'm a christain because what if atheist are wrong." or words to that affect? I tell you go count cards at the black jack tables in Atlantic City.
If you came for love and romance, then I say perhaps you should have singed up for a dating/matrimony service.
If well being or a peaceful state of mind is what you seek then look in the yellow pages. There is plenty of mental health experts who will be more then willing to take your money and listen to you whine and complain. Or prescribe you some form of medication that will make you feel oh so much better.
Is it to solve your problems? To stop drinking or drugging then hey there is AA, and NA.
Overweight, join weight watchers and a gym.
Porn addict, stop watching porn.
The point being is that Christians often site the personal benefits. We often forget or don’t know the only reason to be a Christian. Is to be saved from Gods Just Judgment. To escape his righteous wrath. To flee through the mercy of his sacrifice that which we deserve and that is death.
Blood in we are saved, and blood out is our witness.
I just hope that when death stares me in the face, I would have the shining face of Stephen, not for my glory but His alone. I know that in my natural man, that is my flesh, this is impossible. Only by the grace of God can we be such a testimony.
By the way Fat-man, it's not our goal to anger our fellow bretheren, but if we are faithful to stand for the Lord's interest then surely those in the world will be angered. This is a healthy thing and I commend you for taking a no nonsense approach. People don't wake up by listening to lullabies, they go to sleep, and that describes the situation today of some who are drunken by the poisons and ills of this age. May the Lord have mercy and grace and preserve us as useful vessels in this age to stand against the tide.
Blogger Royal Son said...(bolding mine) I just hope that when death stares me in the face, I would have the shining face of Stephen, not for my glory but His alone. I know that in my natural man, that is my flesh, this is impossible. Only by the grace of God can we be such a testimony.
By the way Fat-man, it's not our goal to anger our fellow bretheren, but if we are faithful to stand for the Lord's interest then surely those in the world will be angered. This is a healthy thing and I commend you for taking a no nonsense approach. People don't wake up by listening to lullabies, they go to sleep, and that describes the situation today of some who are drunken by the poisons and ills of this age. May the Lord have mercy and grace and preserve us as useful vessels in this age to stand against the tide.ubiquitouserendipity says: amen, and amen. the world is lost in "everything-is-beautiful-in-its-own-special-way" pc butt-kissing of islam, the religion of hate, and dancing with the devil. Christians are losing their right to exist in some lands, and our right to present the case for our faith in this land. a Christian who is assertive in their faith is considered a closed-minded bigot, which makes the accusers close-minded bigots. brothers and sisters gotta' wake up and speak up. Peace, in His love, joe
Ibn (and all Muslims), After all this time, study, and dialogue, do you honestly still believe that Islam teaches tolerance?
Bukhari 8, 82, 794
the Prophet ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die.
Bukhari 9, 84, 57
Muhammad said, 'Whoever changes his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"
Bukhari, 1, 2, 24
Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle,
Those Muslim countries are practicing true Islam.
For how much longer will you defend this intolerant religion?
How many more times do you need to read these hadiths?
Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem.
"Plus, word on the street is that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the Western World. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but there's probably some truth to it."
Yes, it is. As far as I know, there are far more practicing Muslims in the world than practicing Christians.
Still, Allah knows best.
May 5, 2009 9:14 PM
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