Thursday, October 9, 2014

Muslim Convert Jennifer Williams and Her Islamic State Fans

Muslim convert Jennifer Williams
In the past two weeks, Muslim convert Jennifer Williams has gone from 60 Twitter followers to more than 10,000. She reports, however, that "a healthy number of them are Islamic extremists, including no small number of supporters of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS). A lot of them live in Saudi Arabia. And some of them want to marry me."

Who would have guessed that jihadists are interested in blonde-haired American converts to Islam? Only anyone who knows anything about jihadists.

Williams, of course, is not interested in jihad, because, as is typical of Western converts, she knows far more about Islam than the jihadists who actually do what Islam commands. She's even read the Qur'an! Here's her story:
If you were to pass me on the street, you would never suspect I’m a Muslim: I don’t wear hijab. I have platinum blonde hair and blue eyes. And I am heavily tattooed. I grew up in Texas and was raised Southern Baptist. I use the word “y’all” a lot—and not ironically. But I am Muslim. I also speak Arabic and hold a Master’s degree in International Security with a focus on terrorism and the Middle East. Several years ago, I realized that although I had long studied, analyzed, and written about Islamic political theory and how jihadist ideologues like Osama bin Laden use the Qur’an to justify their heinous acts of violence, I had never actually read the Qur’an. So I read it—and what I found in its pages changed my life. I found answers to questions about faith and belief and morality that had been plaguing me since my youth. I found the connection to God I thought I had lost. And three years ago, I converted to Islam.
Williams says she is a Muslim, and, by Western definitions (according to which anyone who says "I am an X" is therefore an X), she is undeniably correct. But is she a Muslim according to Islam? Though many readers assume that anyone who recites the Shahada is a Muslim, Allah has far more specific requirements.

Consider, for instance, what the Qur'an says about having Jewish or Christian friends:
Qur'an 5:51—O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
Notice what Allah says here. If you have Jewish and Christian friends, you're not a Muslim ("whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them"). But Williams, as a delightful Texas girl, has no shortage of Christian and Jewish friends. Apparently, she knows better than Allah.

As for the jihadists she condemns, consider the distinction Allah draws between Muslims who wage jihad and those who sit at home:
Qur'an 4:95Those of the believers who sit still, other than those who have a (disabling) hurt, are not on an equality with those who strive in the way of Allah with their wealth and lives. Allah hath conferred on those who strive with their wealth and lives a rank above the sedentary. Unto each Allah hath promised good, but He hath bestowed on those who strive a great reward above the sedentary.
But here again, Williams knows better than Allah. After all, she read the whole Qur'an!

Williams goes on to explain what drew her to Islam:
Just to be clear: I detest the twisted interpretations of Islam espoused by the likes of Al Qaeda and ISIS just as much today as I did before I converted—in fact, probably more so, since now I see it not only as a sick bastardization of a beautiful religion, but a sick bastardization of my beautiful religion. When I read the Qur’an, I find a God who is beneficent, who is merciful, and who cherishes mankind. I find a religion that encourages independent thought, compassion for humanity, and social justice. The jihadis claim to love these same things about Islam, but have somehow decided that the best way to share God’s message of mercy and compassion with the world is to blow up mosques and behead humanitarian aid workers. Great plan, guys.
Let's go through her claims about Islam one at a time.

(1) "I find a God who is beneficent, who is merciful, and who cherishes mankind."

The Qur'an certainly declares that Allah is beneficent and merciful, but not in the way a typical Westerner would interpret these words (more on this below). As for Allah cherishing mankind, I have no clue what Qur'an Williams is reading. Here's what the Qur'an says:
Qur'an 2:190—"Allah does not love those who exceed the limits."
Qur'an 2:276—"Allah does not love any ungrateful sinner."
Qur'an 3:32—"Allah does not love the unbelievers."
Qur'an 3:57—"Allah does not love the unjust. "
Qur'an 4:36—"Allah does not love him who is proud, boastful."
Qur'an 7:31—"[Allah] does not love the extravagant."
Qur'an 8:58—"Allah does not love the treacherous. "
Qur'an 28:77—"Allah does not love the mischief-makers."
Qur'an 57:23—"Allah does not love any arrogant boaster."
The Qur'an plainly declares that Allah has no love for most people (because most people fall into at least one of the above categories). To see what Allah's beneficence and mercy really amount to, let's take a closer look at one of the above verses:
Qur'an 3:31-32—Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.
Notice that Allah only loves those who accept the message of Islam. Allah has no love for those who reject Islam. What Allah's "beneficence" and "mercy" amount to, then, is that if you turn to Allah in repentance, and you obey Muhammad, Allah will then love you. How does this qualify as "cherishing mankind"? Allah clearly states that he has nothing but contempt for Christians, Jews, and idolaters, going so far as to call us "the worst of creatures":
Qur'an 98:6—Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.
So Williams claims that Allah cherishes mankind, while Allah claims that he despises everyone except obedient Muslims. It seems that Western converts like Williams know more about Allah than Allah knows about himself! Perhaps they should rewrite the Qur'an for him, so that people like me won't be so confused!

Moving on . . .

(2) "I find a religion that encourages independent thought, compassion for humanity, and social justice."

Oh my goodness. Independent thought? Allah demands mindless obedience. Consider a few verses:
Qur'an 4:65—But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.
Muslims can "have no faith" until they "find in themselves no resistance" against Muhammad's decisions. Any critical thinking about Muhammad's decisions is therefore a sign of apostasy! (Note: In reading Williams' comments about Islam, we can see that she "finds resistance" against many of Muhammad's decisions. But the Qur'an condemns such "independent thought.") Here's another:
Qur'an 33:36—It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter, that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in a plain error.
Notice again that believers "have no option" but mindless obedience.

The Qur'an even commands Muslims not to ask too many questions, because such questioning may lead them away from Islam:
Qur'an 5:101-102—O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, Allah will forgive those: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most-forbearing. Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith.
Think about this. Allah will give you clear answers in the Qur'an (which Muslims must mindlessly obey). Apart from that, questions aren't exactly welcome. Somehow, Williams reads this and concludes that Islam encourages independent thought!

What about "compassion for humanity"? As we have seen, Allah only loves obedient Muslims. But Allah also commands his followers to treat people accordingly. Thus, he commands Muslims to show mercy only towards fellow Muslims:
Qur'an 48:29—Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves.
So "compassion for humanity" really means "compassion for fellow Muslims only."

As for "social justice," Islam is diametrically opposed to the most basic principles of social justice. Islam allows Muslim men to beat their wives into submission (Qur'an 4:34) and to rape their female captives and slave girls (Qur'an 4:24). Islam allows Muslim men to have sex with prepubescent girls (Qur'an 65:4). Islam commands Muslims to execute anyone who leaves the religion (Sahih al-Bukhari 6878, 6921, 6922). Islam commands adherents to violently subjugate non-Muslims and to extort money from them (Qur'an 9:29; Sahih al-Bukhari 6924). I am not aware of any mainstream ideology on the planet that is more detrimental to social justice than Islam.

(3) "The jihadis claim to love these same things about Islam, but have somehow decided that the best way to share God's message of mercy and compassion with the world is to blow up mosques and behead humanitarian aid workers. Great plan, guys."

Here Williams mocks the jihadists for spreading Islam by the sword. But that plan comes from Allah and Muhammad, not from ISIS.
Qur'an 9:29Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Qur'an 9:123—O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

Sahih Muslim 33—The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
So here's the sad reality. Jennifer Williams, like most Western converts to Islam, is completely clueless about what Islam actually teaches. Yet she puts herself forward as a true follower of Islam, opposing herself to Islamic State jihadists who follow the Qur'an to the letter.

This is, of course, quite common in the West, where people have absorbed the cultural principle that they're free to believe whatever they want to believe. Westerners then carry this principle over to Islam, and they assume that they can believe whatever they want about Islam. While this is true from a Western perspective, it's completely false from an Islamic perspective. Muslims, according to the Qur'an, are not free to believe whatever they want to believe and still call themselves Muslims. The Qur'an calls such Muslims "hypocrites" and orders Muhammad to wage jihad against them (9:73).

The saddest part is that Williams is ultimately serving the jihadists, whether she knows it or not. ISIS is slaughtering apostates (as Islam commands), subjugating hypocrites and unbelievers (as Islam commands), raping female captives (as Islam allows), seizing property (as Islam allows), collecting jizyah (as Islam commands), and so on. Meanwhile, Williams and other Western apologists for Islam protect the Qur'an and Muhammad from criticism, thus allowing the ideology of jihadists to spread unchecked.

Great plan, Jennifer.

48 comments:

pkeady said...

We, in the West, don't have a clue when it comes to "converting" to anything outside of our culture. I find this to be true, as you stated, with Islam as well as Buddhism and other philosophies or faiths. Well done, David.

Danusha Goska said...

Thank you for this clear, irrefutable, and forthright exposure of a very silly and destructive woman.

Gary Fouse said...

She went from tattoos to Islam.

She's a dope.

Rollins 7 said...

Hello David. Great job from your behalf as always. I know that this isn't the right place to ask but could you type an article in the future concerning this channel?

https://www.youtube.com/user/investigateislamdumy/videos?shelf_id=0&sort=dd&view=0

Thank you in advance.

chris van allsburg said...

David,

(Forgive the repeat comment, please, as this is posted on the your fb page. Perhaps you'd rather interact on your website instead of fb).


Regarding the Qur'anic texts under #1, how should Christians respond to similar teaching in the Bible concerning God's regard toward the wicked? I'm thinking of Psalm 5:5, 11:5, John 3:36, Romans 2:6-7, and elsewhere.

It seems like a Muslim apologist would reply that since the Bible condemns the wicked, and the Qur'an also does the same, that there is no difference between the two Scriptures concerning this teaching, and that therefore Christianity is no better than Islam in this respect. I'd like to know your thoughts on this.

Thanks,
Chris

P.A.Spayd said...

What a sad sad pitiful woman. She doesn't even know that in the Koran the Pedophile Prophet Moha pointed to hands and face only of what a woman is to show in public. Then the self-proclaimed "I'm a muslim" BAH! POOR SILLY SILLY FOOL. I'm sure she hasn't wandered herself into a mosque- they would have covered her ignorant self in a black gag bag in about the first 3 steps in the mosque. The barbaric musleemas mamas ain't going to let her wander around a mosque. Thanks for the commentary David, it was great.

paki p said...

Another dumb western, reinterpretating quran and hadith. Everyone on her blog is wrong but some how only she knows the true Islam.
I would like to see her say the same things in an islamic county. She will be murdered (just like mohsin alsani last week).
Or better yet she can go to Iraq and IS well be glad to sell her as a sex slave as they are doing right now with yazidi and Christian girls.
The word is that they are selling the girls for $10 which they say is a bargain price. I personally think at that price this piece of moomoo trash would be very over priced.

james l said...

“Meanwhile, Williams and other Western apologists for Islam protect the Qur'an and Muhammad from criticism, thus allowing the ideology of jihadists to spread unchecked.”

In other words she is just another one of the god of the Quran's/the devil's useful idiots.

If she really wants a merciful beneficent God (John 3:16) then she cannot do any better than Christ, who actually laid down His life for her.

You wouldn't catch the god of the Quran doing anything like that.

Dacritic said...

1. "When I read the Qur’an, I find a God who is beneficent, who is merciful, and who cherishes mankind. I find a religion that encourages independent thought, compassion for humanity, and social justice."

I'm wondering if she did not find this in the Bible especially of Jesus, all the years she was raised as a Southern Baptist.

2. Perhaps she would challenge you to a debate now David. But I suggest that she challenges the groups that she has labelled "bastardizing" her religion to debates. I wonder what she would say if someone from ISIS quotes the very Quran verses that you quoted and showed it to her.

3. Hi Chris, I do not profess to be an expert or an apologist, and I'd like to learn a thing or two about how our panel apologists here would answer your question too. But please allow me to offer my take. God is holy, and He is perfect justice, so therefore since mankind are sinners, God is supposed to hate us. But since He is also perfect love, He cannot bring Himself to hate us, so He wants to wipe away the sins so He can spend eternity with mankind again. But then, that violates justice. But then He is also love! So what was the plan to bring this whole thing into a full circle? Jesus.

bam bamba said...

Outstanding article David. Blondes are bright and clever but this blonde is dumb- sorry to say.
Maybe she would like to pay a visit to Saudi Arabia and pakistan and see how real islam is. She has a childish knowledge of islam. This kind of confused needs proper exposure to Islamic ideology and evil practises.
I was also deceived in college like this lady with the claim of the "inerrancy" of the Koran....which I later found out to be a great lie. I hope she will read this article by David and come back to her senses.

N Pezarraty said...

First off, this lady is crazy to think she can call herself Muslim with tattoos because that's HARAM, like, she's not even trying lol!
HI DAVID :) Please read this!! :)
There is going to be an Islamic scholar called TARIQ RAMADAN on Al Jazeera English this Saturday at 04:30 GMT on a show called "talk to al Jazzera" who will be explaining why ISLAMIC STATE IS NOT ISLAMIC (which we know is untrue). Al Jazzera is something that you can stream live for free on your computer via their website. I tried to find a link to the upcoming show but there wasn't one, however I just noted everything down from the advert so I assure you the time and day is accurate (however they did not specify this or next Saturday but I assume they would say next Saturday if it is). I would love for you to watch and REFUTE!! It would make this issue a lot more public and I think you could get a lot of middle easterners to hear you out :D I think he would give you sooooo much material to work with because I feel like he, as a scholar is the epitome of a westernised Muslim. God willing, you could also give me more material because I'm training to be an apologist (slowly because it's very hard sometimes :P). He is carelessly liberal and given that so many are dying and you are the best apologist I've seen I think you would be amazing.
Il end my plee to you with a quote from the ad for the show, spoken by Mr Ramadan.
"KILLING AND IMPLEMENTING SO-CALLED (using air quotes) SHARIA OR THE SO-CALLED ISLAMIC STATE IS AGAINST EVERYTHING WHICH IS COMING FROM ISLAM!"
Lol... Really?
Can you really let him get away with that? Haha
I want less of these unaware girls who convert to Islam and more people converting from Islam with all the facts! :)

PLEASE? :) you would make my Year :)
God bless
.

Danny L. Newton said...

Should we get together and try to get Charles Mansion out of prison? After all, he only encouraged others to murder. Or should we treat people who instigate violence(helter-skelter) in the same way as Charlie Manson? Either way, there seems to be a social justice issue here. If Charlie had just put on a turban and had black skin, would Holder try to get him out of jail?

Bill Moser said...

The Qur'an states that women are spiritually and mentally deficient. Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

shutupnsing said...

She is to Islam what Madonna was to Kaballah...a clever wardrobe change.

Abe Bird said...

She is a total Muslim by repeating 3 times "I'm a Muslim" and "No Allah but Allah... " sentence, attending before 2 witnesses.

Hiwot said...

It looks like Lady Gaga's picture. One desperate Muslim art hoax but as usual David used this opportunity to discredit Islam. Great job David.

King Arthur said...

http://youtu.be/HKoLbgqIQ7Y
.
bro david; if you got time watch this 7 minute video
.
good for uk, usa and Canada?

TPaul said...

Hi David, this may be a little off topic, but the exciting news of the day is that Ali Sina of faith freedom has accepted Jesus Christ... Please read his testimony here. http://alisina.org/?p=4770.

Brokenstriker said...

... so just to recap ... if everyone on earth ... now and ever more is Muslim and also a "good" Muslim ... then Allah is all these wonderful things this poor misguided tatooed platinum blonde Texan thinks he is ... and if anyone in creation isn't a Muslim ... then he isn't

... and she's not a good Muslim ... so duck and cover baby ... we're praying for you.

Sisgp said...

I've started reading the Quran, I find it confused rubbish! Maybe I'm just not clever enough. But my guess is we often find what we want to find.

Sisgp said...

I don't need to listen to you David I can learn everything about Islam from this third grade lesson.

http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/10/outraged-mother-exposes-schools-attempt-proselytize-third-graders-islam/

tqteq tqwet said...

Bible Is corrupted

David Ford said...

[Dacritic in https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6590312557191237519&postID=2985843563916204506 on 6 Oct]"The thing with abrogation is this: whenever two ideologies seem to clash… look for the one that comes later CHRONOLOGICALLY."

Is there general agreement among Muslims about:
what surahs appeared when?
what's been abrogated?

Re: my 2nd question:
Dadok, _The Generous Quran_, xiv:
"Consideration was given to the inclusion of a table of abrogated verses in this book. However, research revealed that disagreement between Muslim scholars about many abrogated verses is too great to permit them to be reduced into a meaningful table."

[Dacritic]"the Quran is not arranged chronologically… but rather in order of length of the chapters"

Surah 1 seems rather short.

When was the Quran arranged, and by whom?
Do alternate arrangements exist in early manuscripts?

"arranged chronologically like the Bible"

Were Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John written in that order?

(I believe that Matthew appeared first. Most scholars erroneously think Mark was written first.)

What did early Muslim scholars make of al-Nabia Isa being the called the Word of Allah?

Are Muslims aware of the injunction in Surah 96 to go and take communion? I'm looking at Luxenberg, 323.

David Ford said...

[tqteq tqwet]"Bible Is corrupted"

How do you know?-- how'd you come to that conclusion?
Is the Old Testament corrupted? If so:
when did it become corrupted?
what are some instances of it being corrupted?

I have a copies of:
* the 1st 5 books of the Old Testament, translated from the Aramaic Peshitta, then translated into English.
http://www.lulu.com/shop/david-bauscher/the-first-century-aramaic-bible-in-plain-english-the-torah-the-five-books-of-moses/ebook/product-21485706.html

* The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible, translated from Hebrew into English.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Dead-Sea-Scrolls-Bible/dp/0060600640/

* On the internet there is the Septuagint, which is the Old Testament translated from Hebrew & Aramaic into Greek, then into English.
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/

Is the New Testament corrupted? If so:
when did it become corrupted?
what are some instances of it being corrupted?

The New Testament was originally written in Aramaic (not Greek, as most people erroneously believe). The Khabouris Codex is a manuscript of the Peshitta New Testament.
http://www.dukhrana.com/khabouris/
The best translation of the New Testament's 4 biographies about al-Nabia Isa appears at
http://www.peshitta.org -- see the files under "interlinear."

A more plain-English reordering of that excellent translation appears at
http://preview.tinyurl.com/k6tvrcd

If you're Muslim, Luke's biography of al-Nabia Isa ibn Maryam is apparently the best one to start with.

betwixt said...

@TPaul
Ali Sina thinks the Bible is mostly rubbish. I think he only believes in the Jesus of his own making at this point. May the Holy Spirit continue to work on him.

David Ford said...

[tqteq tqwet]"Bible Is corrupted"

Around Sura 5:45, from Arberry's translation
https://archive.org/stream/QuranAJArberry/Quran-A%20J%20Arberry_djvu.txt
"Surely We sent down the Torah, wherein is guidance and light; thereby the Prophets who had surrendered themselves gave judgment for those of Jewry, as did the masters and the rabbis, following such portion of God's Book as they were given to keep and were witnesses to. So fear not men, but fear you Me; and sell not My signs for a little price. Whoso judges not according to what God has sent down - they are the unbelievers. And therein We prescribed for them: 'A life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds retaliation'; but whosoever forgoes it as a freewill offering, that shall be for him an expiation. Whoso judges not according to what God has sent down — they are the evildoers.
5:50 And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the godfearing. So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what God has sent down — they are the ungodly."

Do you think Allah allowed the Taurat (Torah) He sent down to be corrupted?
Do you think Allah allowed the Injil (Gospel) He sent down to be corrupted?

Do you think that in the Taurat there "is guidance and light"?
Do you think that in the Injil there "is guidance and light"?

Have you read the Taurat?
Have you read the Injil?

Below, al-Nabia Isa seems to be laying down even more strict standards for righteousness in Allah's eyes than those put forward in the Taurat:

from Matthew's biography of al-Nabia Isa, chapter 5
http://preview.tinyurl.com/k6tvrcd
¶21. You have heard that it was said to those before,
'you should not kill,'
and all that kill are condemned to judgment.
22. But I say to you that,
anyone who provokes to anger his brother without cause
is condemned to judgment….
¶27. You have heard that it has been said that,
'you should not commit adultery.'
28. But I say to you that,
all who that looks at a woman as lustfully at once has committed adultery in his heart.
….
31. It has been said that,
'he that puts away his wife shall give to her a writing of divorce.'
32. But I say to you that,
any who puts away his wife aside from a case of fornication makes her commit adultery--
and (he) who takes a divorced woman commits adultery.
….
¶38. You have heard that it has been said that,
'an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
39. But I say to you that,
you should not stand against evil,
but who hits you upon your right cheek,
turn also to him the other.
….

smalltallest88 said...

Ali Sina thinks he can create another Jesus from his dead people testimonies. No way! How did he even come about the name Jesus, If he thinks the Bible is full of rubbish? Because am not going to subscribe to his idea of the Bible. He is just confuse if he should get out of his unbelieve as an atheist or become a firm believe of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible is the manual for the believers of Jesus Christ while he can choose another manual book for the unbelievers like believing so much in the quran or any other book apart from the Bible.

Dishaaz Dx said...

you are so silly you know why,, because if you don't understand the arabic language you can't translate it to read it, one of these could happen, not understand anything or misunderstand the essence of language.

i'm a Muslim and i can say that all you've said is Completely wrong.

and the real problem my darling that you trying so hard to push that religion to the ground while we trying to correct your mistakes, see i'm Muslim and i can say anything wrong about your religion whether it was a Christian or a Jewish.

Islam is more simple than you think, more peaceful than you imagine, and it's more forgiveness than see.

we not trying to say your religion and mine, we wanna found The right path

David Ford said...

[tqteq tqwet]"Bible Is corrupted"

With which, if any, of the *ed remarks below do you agree?:

Around Sura 6:35, from Arberry's translation-- do a 'control - f' on the page & search for '6:35' to get quickly there
https://archive.org/stream/QuranAJArberry/Quran-A%20J%20Arberry_djvu.txt
"Messengers indeed were cried lies to
before thee, yet they endured patiently that they were cried lies to, and were hurt, until Our
help came unto them. *No man can change the words of God;* and there has already come to
thee some tiding of the Envoys."

Around 10:65:
"Surely God's friends — no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow. Those who believe, and are godfearing -
for them is good tidings in the present life and in the world to come. *There is no changing the words of God;* that is the mighty triumph.
And do not let their saying grieve thee; the glory belongs altogether to God; He is the All-hearing, the All-knowing."

Around 18:25:
Say: 'God knows very well how long they tarried. To Him belongs the Unseen in the
heavens and in the earth. How well He sees! How well He hears! They have no protector,
apart from Him, and He associates in His government no one.'
Recite what has been revealed to thee of the Book of thy Lord; *no man can change His
words.* Apart from Him, thou wilt find no refuge."

David said...

The likes of Dishaaz Dx try to hide behind the 'you cant read/speak arabic so you don't know the quran says' nonsense. Sadly for Dishaaz, many can read the quran in arabic and have found it says exactly what David Wood and others have stated. To think otherwise is willfully deceiving of oneself.

David Ford said...

[Dishaaz Dx]"if you don't understand the arabic language you can't translate it to read it"

Do you "understand the arabic language"?
What is the meaning of the first word in these Suras?:
2, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 19, 20, 26, 27, 28, 36, 38, 40, 41, 50, 68.
What is the meaning of the first 2 words in Sura 42?

"Islam is more simple than you think"

According to Islam, how can I get into Paradise/ Heaven?

"we wanna found The right path"

Below are remarks by al-Nabia Isa to his students. What do you think of the claim by al-Nabia Isa in verse 6?

The Preaching of John
Chapter 14
A close rendition of what's below is linked to from
http://preview.tinyurl.com/k6tvrcd
1. "Let not your heart be troubled.
Hymenu [believe] in Allaha,
and hymenu in me.
2. The rooms (in) the beth [house] of Abbi [my Father] are many,
and if not I would have told you,
for I go to prepare a place for you.
3. And if I go (and) prepare a place for you,
I will come again
and take you with me,
that where I am,
you may be also.
4. And you know where I go,
and you know the way."
5. Tooma [Thyme] said to him, "Maran [our Master], we do not know where you go, and how are we able to know the way?" 6. Yeshua [al-Nabia Isa] said to him,
"ENA-NA the way and the truth and the life.
No man comes to Abbi [my Father] except by me."

(In the Aramaic renditions of the Old Testament and the New Testament, the phrase "ENA-NA" is usually-- but not always-- said *only* by Allah and al-Nabia Isa. It means "I AM" or "I am," and suggests eternal existence. Here's an instance in the NT quoting the OT:
Acts 7:31-32:
And when Moshe [Moses] saw (it), he was amazed at the vision, and as he drew near to see (it), Mar-YAH [Master YHWH/ Jehovah] said to him in a voice,
ENA-NA
the Allaha of abbehik [your fathers],
the Allaheh of Abraham [i.e. of Abraham his Allah]
and of Iskhaq and of Yaqub."

Dacritic said...

Dishaaz, anyone can say whatever anyone else says is completely wrong. Do show your proofs to disprove whatever has been mentioned in David's article. If God's message has to be so confined in only one language then it serves no universal purpose for all the non Arab speakers in the world.

David Ford, I don't know at the moment who arranged the Quran, but the chrology follows Muhammad's travels from Mecca and then to Medina as well as after.

TPaul, Ali Sina's "conversion" to Jesus sounds a little Deepak Chopra to me. I won't be surprised if later on he says Jesus spoke to him in a dream and proceeds to start his own religion... Like Joseph Smith.

TPaul said...

Hey guys, I know Sina's testimony is a little stretch of the imagination, but the good part is, it is the first step, I have been following Sina for years now and I think he has come a long way. I pray for a full conversion, with him accepting Christ as his lord and saviour inclusive of his word in the Bible... He is right about on thing though, following Christ is more than, and not religion... Peace

tqteq tqwet said...

@David Ford id post u the évidence but they wont show my comment and réfute Ur claims

David Ford said...

[Dacritic]"the chronology follows Muhammad's travels from Mecca and then to Medina as well as after"

Not exactly:

Von Denffer, Ahmad. 1983. _'Ulum al Qur'an: An Introduction to the Sciences of the Qur'an_ (GB: The Islamic Foundation), 189pp.
http://www.amazon.com/Ulum-Quran-Introduction-Sciences-Koran/dp/0860372480/
On 91, the second and last paragraph of the Summary section:
"Many _suras_ of the Qur'an do contain material from both periods of revelation, and in some cases there exists difference of opinion among scholars concerning the classification of a particular passage. However, on the whole, it is a well-established distinction, fully employed in the science of _tafsir_ and best derived from the internal evidence of the text of the Qur'an itself."

It would be hilarious if this alleged "science" amounted to:
'I want passage X to abrogate/trump passage Y, therefore X came after Y.'

David Ford said...

[tqteq tqwet]"id post u the évidence but they wont show my comment and réfute Ur claims"
Have you tried to post it? If you tried, please try again, and if it doesn't appear, let's have a discussion elsewhere. Suggestions? One possibility is as replies to
http://preview.tinyurl.com/k6tvrcd

Salaam,
Dawid

Dacritic said...

David Ford, so back to the question of who abrogates the verses in the Quran then.

David Ford said...

[Sisgp]"I've started reading the Quran, I find it confused rubbish! Maybe I'm just not clever enough."

[Dishaaz Dx]"if you don't understand the arabic language you can't translate it to read it"

Usama K. Dakdok is a follower of al-Nabia Isa, and has Arabic as his first language. He translated the Quran, and I can say that, after having read some of his _The Generous Qur'an_, the result is a mess. Dakdok observes on xiv, "The reader should not be alarmed if difficulty is encountered in gaining any meaning from significant portions of the Qur'an because the reader is in good company." Compare:

Lester, Toby. January 1999. "What Is the Koran?" in _The Atlantic_.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1999/01/what-is-the-koran/304024/?single_page=true
GERD-R. Puin…. "The Koran claims for itself that it is 'mubeen,' or 'clear,'" he says. "But if you look at it, you will notice that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn't make sense. Many Muslims—and Orientalists—will tell you otherwise, of course, but the fact is that a fifth of the Koranic text is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Koran is not comprehensible—if it can't even be understood in Arabic—then it's not translatable. People fear that. And since the Koran claims repeatedly to be clear but obviously is not—as even speakers of Arabic will tell you—there is a contradiction. Something else must be going on."

What's mainly going on is that the Quran isn't in Arabic, but rather is mostly Aramaic-- about 70% Aramaic, in fact.

Another intriguing quote from that same article:
Gerd-R. Puin's current thinking about the Koran's history…. "My idea is that the Koran is a kind of cocktail of texts that were not all understood even at the time of Muhammad," he says. "Many of them may even be a hundred years older than Islam itself. Even within the Islamic traditions there is a huge body of contradictory information, including a significant Christian substrate; one can derive a whole Islamic anti-history from them if one wants."

Exhibit A might be Sura 96's injunction to go bow down (undoubtedly in worship) and take communion.

Rita said...

I think she might be close enough to that peri-menopausal age and has past her use-by date for muslim men who, I am told, try to emulate their "prophet".....and we all know the age of his Aisha.

Conclusion: she probably did a little taquia about all those supposed marriage proposals.

AnarchoBlogg said...

Is this the convert that eats bacon, drinks alcohol and goes to nightclubs?

May I recommend the film Four Lions, Chris Morris.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew-SrlQ9tlI

Aziz Mezlini said...

I just wanted to point out that some of the arguments are fallacious.
1- The first verse you mention about not taking christians and jews as friends is actually a very very bad translation. The word in arabic is "awliya2" which means "parents" or "protectors". The correct translation is "Patrons".
So the verse is about auto-governance of muslims; in contrast to being part of the byzantine empire. This is just a verse about a political choice, warning the muslims about the danger of putting the fate of their new nation in the hands of those who will never truly accept them.

Also the verse 65:4 is not at all related to pedophily. It is talking about when is it possible to divorce a women, and the rule is to look for menstruations. If the women do not have them you cannot divorce because they can be pregnant, unless they are far into menopause. A pregnant women cannot be divorced until after she give birth.
The sentence "if she did not have her menstruations" have nothing to do with pre-pubescent girls. Suggesting that it does is either consciously deceitful or ignorant. I hope it is the latter.
I also disagree with your interpretation for most of the other arguments about love, free thinking and human rights.

Derek Lambada said...

#Aziz mezlini,
Hi,
Sorry but you don't get to decide on your own how the verse is interpreted. I've seen others say you can only refer to Muslims as brother (not non Muslims) citing this very verse as the reason.
Throughout history many Muslims have taken this verse to mean that you shouldn't be close to these people. There is a reason it is generally translated as friend, it's because friend is the best translation. The verse is telling you not to rely on non Muslims. A reasonable definition of friend is someone you can rely on.

You are welcome to disagree about as many as of the interpretations as you like but that does not make you correct.
If enough Muslims believe something else, then what you think is not particularly relevant.

#david ford #diacritic
Your discussion is over my head I think.

The general thought in the Koran arrangement was longest to shortest. The first one was deemed very important though so had to come first. The whole thing doesn't follow the long to short perfectly (maybe the collaters weren't very good at counting?) Maths (indeed any science) was not very strong in the early days of Islam. Probably they didn't want to trust the counting for this particular project with the Christians and Jews who usually did their counting for them.

The verses within each surah are not even necessarily in the 'correct' (chronological) order.
There is a great resource that tells you the best guess at the chronological order. I think even many Muslims use it even though they would regard the site as 'islamophobic' (I think it's even banned in some Muslim countries-quite a recommendation)

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Chronological_Order_of_the_Qur'an

It also has a good section on abrogations

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Abrogations_in_the_Qur%27an

I think it covers all possible abrogations here.

There is no agreement in Islam as to which verses are actually abrogated. Someone told me that practically everyone agrees on one particular verse that is, but they failed to tell me which one.

#sisgp
It makes more sense if you read it in chronological order rather than from front to back. But you really need to know what is going on at the time as well. This is why the sira and hadith are so important. The Koran is largely unintelligible without some background knowledge.

#N Pezzaraty
I'm trying to get through Tariq Ramadan's 'in the footsteps of the prophet'. Damn it's hard going, full of wordy inanity. He has this wonderful view of Muhammad that is completely at odds with the Muhammad in the actual Islamic texts.
He draws these incredibly worthy lessons from the most obscure chapters in the prophets life while ignoring more well know stuff that paints a different picture.
His scholarly credentials have been questioned but somehow he has got a position at Oxford university (maybe being banned from the US in the past looked good on his CV).
He is basically Reza Azlan's older brother.
He is sometimes dangerously convincing. He even had Daniel Pipes fooled for a while.

#chris van allsburg
I would say the main difference is that Christians are allowed to use reason to interpret the Biblical teachings. They can take them as metaphor or regard them as only applying to a particular time.
Muslims are supposed to take everything in the Koran as perfect, eternal, truth and instruction.

I think technically the Bible says to kill apostates. No Christian would do this though because it is against what their heart tells them and is contradicted by other teachings and the example of Jesus.

Muslims still kill apostates. Even the ones that don't probably think that they should.
Reason MUST not play a role. Who are you to question Allah's instruction?
Their whole religion is based on submission to God. Unfortunately they choose to submit to a book (at least at the moment).

Ale Emec said...

ok, here's a more balanced write up

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/03/jennifer-williams-isis-twitter_n_5930122.html

nesreen naeddolaify said...

You all made me laugh out loud. Your comments are soooo stereotypical and reveal deep ignorance even of how muslims cherish freedom of belief. I am a student of english and arabic literature, studied quran in saudi arabia and egypt, and now am a lit grad student in usa. And am a muslim. your translation of quran can best be described as a really bad translation. I dont know where you got it from, actually. But I recommend you visit a decent translation.
You also dont know that in islam we cherish mary and jesus even more than you do in christanity. I understand that you could be angry that a christian person converted to another religion, but this doesnt justify twisting a holy book in this shallow way to prove , again, your twisted point.
I also understand that your western media has fed you with misconceptions about the word jehad which has nothing to do with the meaning you or the jihadis propagate. What you dont know is that we the muslims hate those extremists who claim to be jihadis because their twisted interpretation of our belief risk our own identity and credibility. We even consider them as fanatics, just like the puritans in christianity who were extremists, if you recall.
By the way, ferdinad and isabella killed more than five million jews when they were spreading christianity after invading the iberian peninsula in the 15 and 16 centuries. They killed even more muslims and persecuted whoever resisted being christian. Although you say women are being killed and sold for sex in muslim countires, you didnt mention the farcical and absurd inquisition_witch trials _ which condemned any woman who knows chemistry or works as a midwife or even could write, and accused them of being witches, burnt them alive or drowned them. For your records, in muslim countries, and before the europian and western colonial/imperial era, women were poets and could compete with men without hiding behind a pseudonym (whereas, she was demonized in your western culture). Prophet mohammed's first wife was a business woman, she had a great fortune and successful business and commerce. Nobody said she was a woman and she shouldnt have money. In islam, the real islam not the one demonized or misinterpreted, women have the right not to work in her own house, and her husband is responsible for providing her with servants. In islam women had the right to vote 1436 years ago, while in USA women had this right only in the 1920s after a long long struggle, and I think christianity was the dominant religion then. In islam, a person is responsible for his/her deeds. Nobody can carry the burden of othes deeds.
By the way, I didnt mean to compare between religions. I only wanted to clarify misconceptions and prejudices taken against islam, while they are full of logical fallacies and inaccurate interpretations.
If you wanna debate, read and read and research the credibility of your sources. Your long argumentative article lacks truth. It could be credible for anyone whose limited experience doesnt allow them to see beyond the given. But for a person who has been dealing with more than the given, and who ia questioning and comparing, your article sounds childish in its evidence and analysis. Actually it sounds more as one of the hate speech articles which condemns people for being different without respecting their choices, beliefs or identities.
If someone chooses to describe a country like USA only as full of bars, and never mentions churches or mosques or temples, or how beautiful it is or that there are decent and respectful ppl in it, would the problem be in the country, religion/s or this person's eyes and sick psyche?
My last advice to all of you, go out of your shells, read before judging or theorizing about others.
Excuse me for any mistake in my english. It is only one of the three languages I speak and write as an arab, muslim woman. And I dont mean to brag, I only want you to know that muslim women have the freedom to be educated and independent.

Derek Lambada said...

Hi Nesreen,
Thanks for writing and thanks for sharing your Islam with us.

I am sure David uses lots of different translations of the Quran, as do I. I'd like to know which bits of his conclusions you actually disagree with, and why, from the sources, you are correct and he is not.

I'm sure we know that Jesus and Mary are well regarded in Islam.

I think I'm correct in saying that generally the people here don't trust the media. The 'jihadis' description of themselves is more important.
I have heard jihad being described as a more internal struggle. However this interpretation is relatively recent. It is completely at odds with jihad as described in the sources and as preached and practiced by all the great scholars of the first 1200 years of Islamic history.

Jews suffered under Christianity and Islam. Your figure of 5 million is absurd, this is close to the entire population of Spain at that time. You bend history quite a bit in your reply. Muhammad's first wife of course achieved what she did before Islam, not under it. Did women have the right to vote 1486 years ago? I'm not sure this is relevant as Islam was never a democracy.
I do think though that comparing Islamic history against Christian history is not particularly useful. It is only what happens today that we can do something about.
I find it interesting that you studied the Quran in Saudi Arabia. A place where the rules are decided by scholars interpreting Islamic sources, where women aren't allowed to drive or travel unaccompanied, and it is illegal to build a church.
Freedom of religion is a myth in Islam as can be seen by the relative percentage of minorities in Muslim countries and their continued extreme persecution.

I'd like to say more but I would also like to invite you to correct the 'misunderstandings' with facts rather than just saying they are ridiculous without any evidence.

hilmi said...

I dont know why you conclude thing just based on quran "transliteration". The "translation" explains more than that.
Yes, i dont know how to explain, but there are things you should understand rather than just commenting based that.
For example, know the history when it comes down(revealed), who it is tageted to, and the whole context.
But im pretty sure Quran dont have error. But believe you think whats right.

Derek Lambada said...

Hi Hilmi,
Is context really important? Isn't it the case that the Qur'an states that it is clear and is instruction for all time? This would seem to mean it is instruction regardless of the context of the revelation.

I'm sure all non-Muslims prefer contextual interpretations to literal ones. It doesn't really matter what we think though. It only matters what other Muslims think. If enough take it literally then the literal translation is part of Islam and Islam will be a problem for the whole world.

Unknown said...

How could you say she knows better than allah
Allah is the hakeem and one and only who knows better
No one is worthy of knowing better than him