Sunday, March 9, 2014

Aasiyah Sattar Learns a Lesson about Muhammad's View of Women

I recently posted a video titled "Muhammad's View of Women." Not surprisingly, a Muslimah objected to the content, assuring us that she is quite knowledgeable of Islamic sources. She attacked my claim that Muhammad had a low view of women's intellectual abilities by declaring:

"No where in Islam be it the quraan, hadeeth or the sunnah of the prophet does it state that the prophet Muhammad, would say women are intellectually deficient."

Since both the Qur'an and the Hadith portray women as intellectually deficient, it's clear that Aasiyah hasn't done the studying she claims to have done. I didn't want to overwhelm her with quotations, so I provided her with a single hadith from Bukhari:

Sahih al-Bukhari 2658—The Prophet said: "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said: "Yes." He said: "This is because of the deficiency of her mind."

Aasiyah's response was entertaining:

Just some advise ..When you choose to debate a religion with a person born into the religion, please don't be foolish to google your information from websites that's address is www. r/ is, its embarrassing to the both of us..
Although the welcome has a bit of spunk..

Welcome to r/atheism, the web's largest atheist forum. All topics related to atheism, agnosticism and secular living are welcome.
Read before posting:

Sahih al bukhari
the stupidity of women - Muhammad (self.atheism)
submitted 8 months ago by [deleted]
—The Prophet said: “Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?” The women said: “Yes.” He said: “This is because of the deficiency of her mind.

Really and you expect me to argue with you on this ?? It takes up unnecessary time, having to correct you that the hadeeth does not exist then educate you on the correct one which turns the whole conversation into a different direction..

So again the hadeeth is non existant

There you have it! Sahih al-Bukhari 2658 is a fabricated hadith that I copied from an atheist website. There are just three problems with Aasiyah's response. First, I've never been to that atheist website. Second, I copied the hadith directly from Volume Three of Sahih al-Bukhari. Third, I just took a picture of the hadith (English and Arabic):

(As a side note, notice that Bukhari presents this hadith as a clarification of Qur'an 2:282, which says that the testimony of a woman is worth half the testimony of a man.)

What conclusion can we now draw? Ordinarily, I would attribute a Muslim denying the existence of a hadith to ignorance of the Islamic sources. But Aasiyah claims to be very knowledgeable of her sources, so there's no way she isn't familiar with this hadith. This means that there are two possible explanations of her claim that the hadith I quoted doesn't exist: Either (1) Aasiyah is deliberately trying to deceive us, in a desperate attempt to cover up what her prophet said about women, or (2) she's deliberately trying to deceive us about her knowledge of her scriptures.

Which one is it, Aasiyah?


Christlike said...

Prof. David Wood, i have come across several of Muslims who are totally ignorant or pretending,prove arrogant and evasive, denying everything negative about their prophet and when shown the prove, they then say you don't understand Islam, How should i deal with such bigots and dogmatic muslims

Radical Moderate said...

There is one other explanation.

Maybe the hadeeth is true when it comes to Muslim woman.

Aasiyah Satter is kind of proving that she is deficient in her mind.

Faith in jesus said...

Lol love it david. Keep up the fantastic work. God bless

Thor said...

Maybe she is trying to deceive herself?

Sisgp said...

Dk said...

The normal defense is not to deny that these hadith exist.

Aisha is obviously not trained well enough in taqiya to be "knowledgeable" enough of Islam.

DarkMath said...

Denial is not just a River in Egypt. ha-ha

Seriously she's in denial about what the Qu'ran and Hadeeth say about Woman.

How can she accept it? To accept it would challenge her entire system of beliefs. This is classic psychology. Denial is a defense mechanism we humans use to keep our sanity:

Unknown said...

Radical Moderate

There is one other explanation.

Maybe the hadeeth is true when it comes to Muslim woman.

Aasiyah Satter is kind of proving that she is deficient in her mind.

ROFL 7X !!!

Dacritic said...

Haha. I love RM's comment here. How some people can be so mentally "deficient" I don't know. David, don't you feel like, a little tiring having to argue with people like that so often? I would really love to hear what she has to say next! Please do update us. I must admit I come to this website initially to strengthen my faith in Jesus, but now seriously I'm just amusing myself with how these Muslim apologists argue, then disappear once it has been shown how their arguments fall down like a pack of cards. Then they'd appear somewhere else to spout more stupidity. It's like playing in those video games where you clobber the goons and then they appear again to be clobbered somewhere else.

Baron Eddie said...

باب شهادة النساء She can visit this Islamic site number 2515 in Arabic

cheryl_maree said...

It could be that she don't know how to look it up in the books because being a Christian, when I started to look something up in the Hadiths I had, David and Sam had to help me look up the numbers to find that particular one. With Islam one of the first problems I had was there numbering system in their books and Quran is all different, that was so confusing. She probably never studied her own sources so maybe she should start with the basics.

Anonymous said...

She made the accusation that atheist arguments were used against Islam?

That's a bit rich coming from a Muslim, since, and as we all know, Muslims themselves frequently use the extremely ill-informed, fallacious anti-Christian arguments/accusations invented by atheists against the Christian doctrine.

I must say I am very impressed with her ignorance.

Unknown said...

Dave, your awsome!
Not that i want to hurt or offend them but Muslims need to know that Jesus came for all of us! They must be told! They've been deceived by satans itch with a b.
keep it up ! you've inspired me to become an apologist . Too many Muslims in my area who are arrogant,rude and need Jesus NOW (like we all do). Im studying the bible and quran so i can preach well with all knowledge of Both religion. Thanks for doing what you do.
Bless you brother

Anonymous said...

Regarding this hadith by Muhammad saying that a woman's testimony is worth half of a man's because a woman is deficient.

Remember it was Kadija, Muhammad's first wife and a woman, who validated Muhammad's prophethood and no one else.

When Muhammad thought he was being possessed by demonic jinns it was a WOMAN, his wife, who was the sole person to tell Muhammad it was an angel, not a demon.

So according to Muhammad Kadija's validation was FLAWED because she needed another person to test Muhammad that it was not a demon, as Muhammad thought, that was bothering him.

Christlike said...

Prof. David, you dont publish my comments, may I know why? I greet you in the name of christ.

D335 said...

continuing the argument from Quran is corrupt...

#also from a woman Muhammad was born, ...
therefore muhammad came from someone who is deficient in mind...

nice argument, big moe!

David Wood said...

Christlike said: "Prof. David, you dont publish my comments, may I know why? I greet you in the name of christ."

No idea what you're talking about, since the comments section here begins with the only other comment you've posted.

So if you're going to start throwing around false accusations and complaints, you can go somewhere else.

Unknown said...

Muslims are in complete denial of their own holy Islamic sources. I don't understand if this is something that is literally true (based on honesty) or if they are just denying because they don't know how to deal with the truth. Either way, in my opinion, its something that should cause any person with a rational mind to investigate.

goethechosemercy said...

Look at Muslim history & practice.

nacanacazo said...

Radical Moderate says:

"There is one other explanation.

Maybe the hadeeth is true when it comes to Muslim woman.

Aasiyah Satter is kind of proving that she is deficient in her mind."

Then is Aasiyah is deficient in her mind, Islam is the truth alhamdulillah!!!

/sarc off

I have seen woman that are not deficient so Islam is not true.

cheryl_maree said...

The reason Muslims are In denial of their Islamic Sources is because all of the Lectures they go to and in MOST of the Western Mosques they are not taught from there sources, only the DisneyLand Version of Islam everything else is left out, then when you point it out to them they always say....that's not what is says because at first it's a shock to them.....then they start asking more questions.....again they are fed Disneyland......

Green Apple Muslim said...

Muslims often point to the story of Khadijah supporting Muhammad, after his first revelation, in order to show a strong woman who recognizes the truth of Allah and supports her husband when he needs it the most. It shows that women are perceived as spiritually equal before Allah. In Islam women are held accountable for fulfilling their religious duties, the same as men are, but this is where they distinguish the roles of the male and female.

[Allah tells them:] "Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female: you are members, one of another . . . verily, I will blot out from them their iniquities, and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath; - a reward from the Presence of Allah, and from His Presence is the best of rewards." (Quran 3:195)

It is important to distinguish between spiritual equality and the role of women in family and society. Otherwise, you’ll argue in circles. For Muslim women fulfilling her duties as wife and mother is a form of worship. Women are taught to believe that accepting the roles which Allah has made for them is an act of Iman (faith). Therefore it makes it easier to accept the leap that Allah has made the creation of a woman deficient (emotional) in order to uniquely suit her to fulfill her roles in family and society.

Submitting to Allah by fulfilling religious duties in the loving role of wife and mother sounds honorable, at first, but the reality is that it reduces the roles of men and women to strict rights and duties which removes love, loyalty, and kindness from the marriage and makes it more like a contract where the rights and duties can seem harsh and unfairly distributed.

To see a Muslim Sheik explain the difference between equality and justice see:

Christlike said...

Prof. Very sorry for that unfounded complaints, i made a mistake when trying to comment and that explains why my comments didn't appear, I visit your site every day and am highly schooled by your wonderful work, Thank you.

DannyM said...

It comes to something when a Muslim accuses Christians of using atheistic arguments against Islam. Muslims have slavishly parrotted the 'arguments' of naturalistic materialists for years now...the apostate Bart Ehrman immediately springing to mind, whose 'arguments' and illogic would completely undermine Islam, if employed consistently by the stumbling, bumbling Muslim. Sometimes one has to rub one's eyes to make sure he really is reading what's in front of him!

Radical Moderate said...

nacanacazo said...

"Then is Aasiyah is deficient in her mind, Islam is the truth alhamdulillah!!!"

My Response:

Well there is always some truth in a lie, so if allah got it right about Muslim woman being deficient in their minds then this is just a case of allah knowing his target audience.

You also wrote...

"I have seen woman that are not deficient so Islam is not true."

My Response:

I have to and thats why these woman are not Muslim

D335 said...

there's a good starting point when you discussed about women in islam.

muslim would love to start with Khadijah.

I preferably starts with Safiya, Rayhana, Zainab, Hafsa and Maria Coptik, Saodah, Aisha and .... very lastly Khadijah.
Infact, I let them tell me about them first rather than start telling them what the islamic scriptures says.
(Thx for shamoun to make those hadiths easier)

Sometimes seeing the contrast of what muhammad did and supposedly did, is totally in opposite.

The omega said...

I believe a woman from Europe was raped in dubai but her testimony didn't stand up in court because no man was able to verify the rape (watched her get raped) therefore there was no REAL evidence because even in progressive Muslim countries, the court of law does not recognise a woman's testimony to that of a mans because of these islamic teachings. Thus, if she wants proof it's easily found and not only from atheist websites..

Unknown said...

Quran is the verbatim word of Allah, God Almighty, it extends glad tidings to all good servants of Him among Jewish and the Christian communities for their devout practices. There isn't any saying attributed to Prophet Muhamma which condemns non Muslims who wouldn't commit the sin of worshipping others besides the One true God to Hell which is a point to be noted. Rather there are increasingly multiple references in Quran which confirm otherwise fair principles of Justice for Faith in one God. Also, the Quran far from condemning Jews and Christians to hell encourages them to upgrade their belief through this new revelation carried by Angel Gabriel. Whenever the Quran curses its sinners it also praises people among the Jews and Christians for guarding Faith, as pointed out in Quran 3.113 to 115.

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