Monday, March 10, 2014

Will Allah Punish Jews and Christians for the Sins of Muslims?

Muslims often object to the Christian doctrine of atonement (specifically, the doctrine that Jesus willingly died on the cross for the sins of others). But Muhammad taught his followers that Allah will punish Jews and Christians for the sins of Muslims. Is the Islamic doctrine of atonement (i.e., that Christians and Jews will unwillingly be saddled with the sins of Muslims) somehow better than the Christian doctrine (according to which God's perfect justice is matched only by his perfect love)?


For those who want to take a closer look at the ahadith I quoted in the video, here they are:

Sahih Muslim 6665—Abu Musa reported that Allah's Messenger said: When it will be the Day of Resurrection Allah would deliver to every Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say: That is your rescue from Hell-Fire.

Sahih Muslim 6666—Allah’s Apostle said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire.

Sahih Muslim 6668—Allah’s Messenger [said]: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as heavy sins as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them and He would place in their stead the Jews and the Christians.

110 Hadith Qudsi—Allah’s Messenger said: On the Day of Resurrection, my Ummah (nation) will be gathered into three groups. One sort will enter Paradise without rendering an account (of their deeds). Another sort will be reckoned an easy account and admitted into Paradise. Yet another sort will come bearing on their backs heaps of sins like great mountains. Allah will ask the angels though He knows best about them: Who are these people? They will reply: They are humble slaves of yours. He will say: Unload the sins from them and put the same over the Jews and Christians: then let the humble slaves get into Paradise by virtue of My Mercy.

27 comments:

hugh watt said...

Birmingham council investigates 'Muslim fundamentalist plot to take over local schools'

Lord Brian said...

GOOD WORK DAVID!

I swear, how much more proof do Muslims need?

Taking someone's sins and dumping them on Jews and Christians???

And another thing: Why are Muslims (or better yet, the Islamic doctrine) in locked arms with Jews and Christians. Not Hindus, not Sikhs (even though they're pretty new), not ANY OTHE FAITH, but JEWS and Christians.

We have to pay jizya tax until we feel subdued, we're insulted several times in the Qur'an, and I even saw your episode where it's said that Jewish and Christian women will be slaves to Muslims in paradise.

It's almost as if Muhammad new that both Judaism and Christianity were the main threat to his legitimacy, even though Islam piggybacks off of their prophets and scriptural accounts.

But DAVID, good work!

Beth said...

@Lord Brian

Islam piggybacks on Judaism and Christianity because they are the threats to Satan, other religions and worldviews are already on a misguided path.

Lord Brian said...

Keep up the good work, David...Sam too!

Lord Brian said...

@Beth

I don't agree with any of these faiths, but one things for sure: Islam is the stubbed toe on the foot of progression. Seriously: Who can even believe that I'M gonna pay for your crimes??? No wonder suicide bombers have no regrets. Sad, sad, sad...

Matt said...

Does logic apply here? Do Muslims respect logic? I suspect that they do not when it works against Islam.

Why throw the sins on Jews and Christians? There is an even easier way to get to Allah's heaven. Well, if all have sinned then my sin is not my fault. Allah made us incorrectly. So the fault is on Allah. How can I be judged? Everybody gets a free pass to heaven.

Christians cannot use that logic because all have not sinned. Jesus didn't sin so that loophole is closed.

hugh watt said...

LB

Clear-up something for me:

"We have to pay jizya tax until we feel subdued, we're insulted several times in the Qur'an,."

And then: "I don't agree with any of these faiths,."

R S Roudh said...

Your sins are like great mountains but you do not have to worry because other people are going pay for them. You cannot beat a religion like that! Why do Muslim speakers not shout about this from mountain-tops?

cheryl_maree said...

My daughter who converted to Islam says it's because we caused the Muslims (with sin as high as mountains) to sin. I asked her for her source and I'm still waiting.

Davy Jones said...

cheryl_maree said that her daughter said we the Christians and Jews made the muslims to sin as high as mountains !!!! I cannot believe my eyes as I read this. And this is your daughter..the one you raised before islam took over with their " peaceful and harmonious " verses and chapters???? Wow..ok..umm..mmm...

I can break islam and Christianity down into 3 words

surah at tawbah 9:5 - kill them all

Luke 23:34 - Forgive them all

Based on the verses I read above here, where does it say muslims are innocent and sweet cupcakes? They are commanded to kill us ( non believers ) and we are told to forgive them and we are the ones to carry their sins???

I am sorry cherly_maree for your loss..I will pray that she returns to the truth , the way and the life - Jesus Christ.

We take their sins according to " allah " ???!!!

Wow..I need therapy after this...

Tom said...

@ cheryl_maree
Our God is Faithful, pray that your daughter will be Blessed with the Wisdom & Truth of our Saviour Lord Jesus Christ.

Since she says that we are the cause of their sins, is she saying then muslims are sinless?
The Bible says:
Romans 3:23" for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,.."
James 2:10 "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in ONE POINT, he has become guilty of all."

That is the Standard of Our Perfect Father, You cannot stand before Our Father, Only by His Grace, Through His Son Jesus Christ.
But the muslim allah you can appear before him with sin and pass through, no punishment, this is the highest level of perversion!
islam(its-sham)is the "perfectly" adulterated, perverted version of the Old Testament(the law).

cheryl_maree said...

What my daughter is saying is that if we caused the Muslim to fall into error or sin then we would be responsible for the sin that we caused. I asked where she gets that from (the source) .....and I am still waiting.
Thank you all for your prayers for her, her name is Angela, I Pray everyday, consistently, and I believe he has already answered, I just have to wait.

David Wood said...

Cheryl,

Here are a couple of thoughts.

(1) Notice what the Hadith says:

Sahih Muslim 6666—Allah’s Apostle said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire.

"No Muslim would die but . . ." Hence, Jews and Christians will pay the price for the sins of EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM EVER. Quite odd to think that we're responsible for the sins of ALL Muslims! Blame game, anyone?

(2) Whoever told your daughter that us paying for the sins of Muslims was thinking of this passage in the Qur'an:

Qur’an 16:22-25—Your God is one God; so (as for) those who do not believe in the hereafter, their hearts are ignorant and they are proud. Truly Allah knows what they hide and what they manifest; surely He does not love the proud. And when it is said to them, what is it that your Lord has revealed? They say: Stories of the ancients; That they may bear their burdens entirely on the day of resurrection and also of the burdens of those whom they lead astray without knowledge; now surely evil is what they bear.

You can familiarize yourself with this passage, since that's the only way your daughter can defend her claim.

cheryl_maree said...

Thanks David. What this Quran verse 16.22-25 is talking about is something different then the Hadith? This is saying that those who do not believe in the hereafter and led others to not believe then they will bear that burden. Is that correct?

hugh watt said...

Cheryl

Sad to hear your daughter has been so deceived. But who deceives according to Islam?

The Islamic teaching is we are all Muslims:

Q.7:172 When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?"- They said: "Yea! We do testify!" (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful":

173 Or lest ye should say: "Our fathers before us may have taken false gods, but we are (their) descendants after them: wilt Thou then destroy us because of the deeds of men who were futile?"

If we do anything contrary to Islam the Koran tells us why.

Q. 57:22 No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We bring it into existence: That is truly easy for Allah:

If Allah made us Muslim and we abandoned Islam Allah made us apostates.

Royal Son said...

David, in light of these Hadiths, would not Islam always have to have fewer Muslims than Christians or at most the same number? My point is that in order for every Muslim to have their sins atoned, there'd need to be at least 1 Christian for every Muslim. That would mean that for atonement to work, Islam could not outgrow Christianity in the number of followers.

rasglife said...

Where exactly is this in the 110 ahadith qusi?

David Wood said...

It's #8.

RMuhammad said...

David, I saw episodes for reasons 1-10, 11-20, 21-30, and 41-50, but I can't find the 4th installment, reasons 31-40.

Could you please post the link to that episode? I searched Trinity Channel and other sources on YouTube.

cheryl_maree said...

@hughwatt,
Thank The Lord Jesus, I will most happily be an apostate. I have said that if Islam was true then I would rather be in the hell fire. There whole idea of Islam's heaven, Mohammed and his convenient revelations, all of it I could not nor never bare.

hugh watt said...

Cheryl

Rather appealing if the lust of the flesh is all the mind can fathom. I guess it's a man thing.

ofJesus Xrist said...

iSLAMiC perversion:Shamsuddin Ibn Qayyim al Jawziya who is one of the only scholars that the Wahabis do not reject and who was a student of Ibn Taymiyya. Let us quote what he writes in his Bada’i al-Fuwa’id, page 129:

“Ibn ‘Aqeel, and many of our scholars, and our Shaykh [Ibn Taymiyya] have ruled that masturbation is makruh (disliked), and never explicitly said he that it was haram”.
Bada’i al-Fuwa’id of Ibn Qayyim, page 129

He then presents his own discussion on the conditions that make masturbation halaal:

“If a man is torn between continued desire or releasing it, and if this man does not have a wife or he has a slave-girl but he does not marry, then if a man is overwhelmed by desire, and he fears that he will suffer because of this (someone like a prisoner, or a traveller, or a pauper), then it is permissible for him to masturbate, and Ahmad (ibn Hanbal) is explicit on this. Furthermore, it is narrated that the Companions of the Prophet (s) used to masturbate while they were on military expeditions or travelling”.
SUCKLING: Sahih Muslim Hadith Number 3426:

Ibn Abu Mulaika reported that al-Qasim b. Muhammad b. Abu Bakr had narrated to him that ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail b. ‘Amr came to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, Salim (the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa) is living with us in our house, and he has attained (puberty) as men attain it and has acquired knowledge (of the sex problems) as men acquire, whereupon he said: Suckle him so that he may become unlawful (in regard to marriage) for you He (Ibn Abu Mulaika) said: I refrained from (narrating this hadith) for a year or so on account of fear. I then met al-Qasim and said to him: You narrated to me a hadith which I did not narrate (to anyone) afterwards. He said: What is that? I informed him, whereupon he said: Narrate it on my authority that ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) had narrated that to me.

BEASTIOLOGY:Sunni Imam Abu Bakar al-Kashani (d. 587 H) records in his authority work ‘Badaye al-Sanae’ Volume 2 page 216:

ولو وطئ بهيمة لا يفسد حجه
“If he had sexual intercourse with an animal, that will not make his hajj void”
Sixth example of Sunni morality – Paedophilia, Bestiality and necrophilia can be performed whilst one is Fasting
In Bada’i al-Fuwa’id of Ibn Qayyim, page 603:

“It was narrated by Ahmed that a man came to him that feared that he would ejaculate while he was fasting. Ahmed said: “What I see is that he can release semen without ruining the fast, he can masturbate using his hands or the hands of his wife, If he has an “Ammah” whether be it a girl or a little child, she can masturbate for him using her hands, and if she was a non-believer, he can sleep with her without releasing (his semen), if he released it in her, it becomes impermissible”.
Not to be hard done by, the Hanafi’s follow suit. In Fatawa Qadhi Khan, Page 820, the learned Hanafi scholar Allamah Hassan bin Mansoor Qadhi Khan sets out those acts that do not invalidate one’s fast, and he includes:

“Sex with animals, dead people and masturbation, does not invalidate one’s fast provided ejaculation does not occur”
Fatawa Qadhi Khan, Page 820

fatima ibrahim said...

OH! christians you misleading others with your false propaganda, non you said about Islam is true, if you are a true seeker then read our actual books and look up all the ref they gave and you'll realize how misleading they are. their mission is not to care but make money out of you.

David Wood said...

Fatima,

Are you saying that the quotes from Sahih Muslim and 110 Ahadith Qudsi aren't real, and that we made them up?

ediagbonya aiyudubie said...

#fatima. Please direct us the the actual books

PETER said...

ONE DAY I READ THE FOLLOWING HADITH (SAYING) OF THE PROPHET (s) FROM SAHIH MUSLM: “It was narrated from AN Burdah from his father that the Prophet said: "On the Day of Resurrection some Muslim people will come with sins like mountains, but Allah will forgive them and will place them (i.e. their sins) on the Jews and the Christians" as far as I reckon…..I QUESTIONED MYSELF, ISN’T ALLAH THE MOST JUST, AS HE DESCRIBED HIMSELF BY ONE OF HIS ATTRIBUTES? SO I WAS OBVIOUSLY CONFUSED BY THIS HADITH.

SO I ASKED ALLAH IF, BY HIS WILL, HE CAN SHOW ME THE WISDOM OF THIS HADITH (SAYING). AND IT IS AS IF BY SOME SORT OF INSPIRATION I WAS GIVEN TWO REASONS FOR THE JUSTIFICATION OF THIS HADITH:

1) THIS FIRST REASON CAME TO ME AFTER WITNESSING COUNTLESS NUMBER OF TIMES HOW THE JEWS (AND NOW THE CHRISTIANS) ARE RECKLESSLY KILLING INNOCENT MUSLIMS IN GAZA AND IN OTHER LANDS (SYRIA, IRAQ, LIBYA, ETC.). I WAS SO AMAZED AT THE KILLING THAT WAS GOING ON (I.E. SOMETIMES WHOLE VILLAGES ARE WIPED OUT), THAT I QUIETLY SAID, “OH ALLAH, AREN’T YOU SUPPOSED TO BE JUST? WHERE IS YOUR JUSTICE?” AND IMMEDIATELY, I REMEMBERED THE ABOVE HADITH, AND I FELT AT PEACE WITHIN MYSELF.

2) THE SECOND REASON IS: IF THEY (THE CHRISTIANS) HAVE, WITHOUT ANY CONSCIENCE, TRIED TO PLACE ALL THEIR SINS ON THE SHOULDERS OF AN INNOCENT PERSON (I.E. JESUS), THEN IT SHOULDN’T BE WRONG FOR THEM TO CARRY THE SINS OF OTHERS. THAT IS, IF THEY BELIEVE IN THE REDEMPTION OF SINS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, THEN IT IS ONLY JUST FOR THEM TO CARRY THE SINS OF OTHERS AS WELL, AS THEY BELIEVE IN IT.

DANA said...

Whoever dies not a Moslem is Kafir and will go to HELL Inshallah. This is documented and real in the Holy Quran and Hadith.
Lali