Monday, December 10, 2012

Islamic Seminary Darul Uloom Issues Fatwa against Zakir Naik

Those of us who study apologetics consider Zakir Naik's arguments to be hopelessly flawed, illogical, and grounded in silly assumptions. Interestingly, many Muslim scholars also reject Naik's claims, albeit for different reasons. Darul Uloom Seminary (the Indian equivalent of Al-Azhar) has gone so far as to issue a fatwa condemning Naik as "unreliable."

Hindustan Times--Darul Uloom, the globally influential Islamic seminary has slammed the religious views of controversial televangelist Dr Zakir Naik in a fatwa as doubtful, urging Muslims to avoid following him. The fatwa came in response to queries from people seeking clarifications on Naik’s teachings since Sunni Muslims either turn to Egypt’s Al-Azhar University or India’s Darul Uloom for guidance.

Although Naik, a doctor turned preacher, has gained prominence as a speaker on Islam, he has been a controversial figure because of his disparaging remarks on other religions and radical views.

The fatwa said Naik was a ghiar muqallidin, a term used to describe those whose teachings are not directly based on any one of the four accepted schools of Islamic thought and, was therefore, unreliable. (Continue Reading.)

38 comments:

Deleting said...

Tee hee! All those Muslims telling us to watch Ahmed deedat and zakir naik....

Osama Abdallah said...

Glad they're doing this garbage. More and more these organizations are losing popularity among Muslims, because they're nothing but bullies who usually give no evidence to substantiate or backup their claims.

You've seen one of these clowns here declare me personally as an infidel on this board, in the past. You really have to be familiar with the current Arabic media today to understand what I am speaking about. They bullying organizations are being thrown in the trash where they belong.

Osama Abdallah
www.TheHobbitFilmReview.com

Tom said...

When you attack The Son of God, The Saviour of the World, Jesus Christ, you have declared that you are "sleeping with satan" and you become filth! ahmed deedat's long & agonising death is proof!

Osama Abdallah said...

"When you attack The Son of God, The Saviour of the World, Jesus Christ, you have declared that you are "sleeping with satan" and you become filth! ahmed deedat's long & agonising death is proof!"

RESPONSE:

You are a victim of the Bible's loose use of words. Words and terms like God, Son, Son of God, Rose from the dead, Death, etc... have no real meaning nor value.


Christ never died. He was placed in a cave, and he was anointed and massaged with medicine during the three days he was there, and after he healed he physically left the cave in hi ORIGINAL BODY. This is why they also found the winding sheets unwound. THIS IS WHAT "ROSE FROM THE DEAD" means in your Scriptures.

Like I said, you're a victim of the hogwash language of the Bible. Nothing means what you would normally think it means. Dr. Zakir Naik thoroughly and amply demonstrated this in his 3-hour debate with Pastor Rukni.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Richard said...

Osama,

Thanks for sharing your heresies.

Deleting said...

Osama said " he was anointed and massaged with medicine during the three days he was there, and after he healed he physically left the cave"

So I take it you subscribe of the swoon theory? That's not the view of Sunni Islam, just heretical sects.

How do you derive this from the Koran and Hadiths if your not getting it from the ahdmadiyaa (sp)? You can't go outside the bounds of your religion and the injeel is 'unreliable' according to your previous posts so how do you know what happened to Jesus? How did you come to this conclusion,
and no you can't use the gospels since we're all 'victims of the bible's loose use of words'.

Melvyn Cyrus said...

@Osama,

"He was placed in a cave, and he was anointed and massaged with medicine during the three days he was there, and after he healed he physically left the cave"

Did they use CPR also?

Osama Abdallah said...



"Osama,

Thanks for sharing your heresies."

RESPONSE:

Psalm 82:6 "I said, 'You are "GODS (ELOHIM)"; you are all sons of the Most High.' "


"Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your Law, "I said ye are gods. If He can call them GODS (ELOHIM), unto whom the word of God came, say ye of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world, "Thou blasphemeth," because I said I am the son of God?'" (John 10:34-36).

I want you to tell me what does GOD and Son of GOD mean in your religion, in light of Jesus reducing his "Son of GOD" title to be below YOUR GOD title.

Again, visit Dr. Zakir Naik's debate with Pastor Rukni on "Was Jesus really Crucified?"

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Melvyn Cyrus said...

@Osama

Healing from what? What about the Qur'an saying:
وَمَا قَتَلُوه ُُ وَمَا صَلَبُوه
"they slew him not nor crucified him"
According to your book, Jesus was no even nailed on the cross!
I guess you're adopting Shabir's view, what Dr. Craig called a "quasi-islamic" stance. You're probably be the next one to be issued a fatwa against!

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Osama

So who was on the cross? Where is the evidence for your assertions? Why did your Allah make it appear as though Jesus died, hence lying to the world and creating the largest faith the world has ever seen?

Why did your demon Allah lead billions and billions of people astray with his deception?

Please keep talking. The more you do the better it is for all non Muslims to see the insanity that Islam brings!


Please go on!

Richard said...

Osama,

Always missing the point.

Hey, but thanks for sharing your heresies and blasphemies.

By the way,

Who did John the baptist prepare the way for?

Tom said...

@Osama Abdallah

As my fellow Christian has indicated,
"... You're probably be the next one to be issued a fatwa against!" Hahahahaha.. good one..

You dig your hole.. & amazinly you cover yourself in it!

The Bible record Jesus was scourged and whipped which the movie "Passion of Christ" does not even do justice as to what took place before He was crucified. Or maybe your muhammad forgot the verse, " And they scourged him not, but was made to look so.."
Would love to hear this explanation how do you massage an absolutely bruised body & heal it in 3 days? Another Miracle?
And you also need to address my fellow Christains confusion that He was not crucified and all that other hogwash & "tight words" from your koran?

gabriella oak said...

Osama's anti-logic phaser gun still set to 'stun', I see.

Osama Abdallah said...

I see that none was able to refute that Christ never died, even according to the New Testament itself.

As always, you twist the point to cover your false religion. I never said that I believe in what the NT says. I only used it to demonstrate that even according to your book, Christ never died. And I used your book to define what "Rose from the Dead" means in your book, and how words and terms really don't mean what one would normally think they mean. I used that as an example along with the "GOD" example as well.

Christianity fails, and it is false.

Osama Abdallah

Osama Abdallah said...

Search 4 Truth, as I promised you, I posted our other debate on my website. I put you under David Wood's section.

I'll gladly further debate you on the crucifixion here as well. Gee I haven't even started with Psalm 91 and 118, which Jesus Christ and satan had a conversation on, in the NT. Psalm 118 by the way makes A CLEAR REFERENCE ABOUT JESUS AND HIS MOTHER MARY, PEACE AND BLESSINGS OF GOD ALMIGHTY BE UPON THEM BOTH.

Are you up for it?

Osama Abdallah

CallingMuslims said...

What dar uloom said from a classical Islamic stand point is correct, most of these internet Muslim self appointed experts don't have any ijazah(license/ordination) let alone the ability to derive rulings directly from the primary sources(ijtihad). They won't hesitate to contradict established rulings from the four sunni schools in order to make Islam more palatable.

Hazakim1 said...

Osama,

My 9 year old son would spank you in a debate if you would honestly contend that Jesus didn't die according to the NT. Thats like me challenging you to a debate - claiming that the Qu'ran doesnt call Muhammad a prophet. Are you seriously that dull?

Melvyn Cyrus said...

@ Osama

Actually, in "Rose from the Dead" you have the word "dead"!
And were do you find the following in the Bible:

"Christ never died. He was placed in a cave, and he was anointed and massaged with medicine during the three days he was there, and after he healed he physically left the cave in hi ORIGINAL BODY. This is why they also found the winding sheets unwound."

There is nothing in the Bible supporting these details. It's pure conjecture.

The proof you have for Christ never dying is the Qur'an, compiled at least six centuries later than the NT, whereas ALL the 1st century information we have (even extra-biblical) corroborates the fact that Christ indeed died (and rose as far the NT is concerned). Almost no secular non-muslim believes what you're saying. The only reason you're asserting that is your bias that come from your book you're desperately clinging to.

BTW, what do you believe in: that Christ was replaced by someone looking like him ("and so it appeared unto them") or, like Shabir, that he survived crucifixion?

Fifth Monarchy Man said...


Osama said,

I see that none was able to refute that Christ never died, even according to the New Testament itself.

I say


Buckle up butter cup



Quote:


When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, "Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.
(Rev 1:17-18)



For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
(1Co 15:3)

This was to fulfill the word that Jesus had spoken to show by what kind of death he was going to die.
(Joh 18:32)

"And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: 'The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.
(Rev 2:8)

The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him;
(2Ti 2:11)

For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.
(1Th 5:9-10)

For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
(1Th 4:14)

I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
(Gal 2:21)

and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.
(2Co 5:15)

For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died.
(Rom 14:15)

Pilate was surprised to hear that he should have already died. And summoning the centurion, he asked him whether he was already dead. And when he learned from the centurion that he was dead, he granted the corpse to Joseph.
(Mar 15:44-45)


End quote:

I could provide many many more but my fingers are tired from the cut and paste

The fact is the death of Jesus is not only a universally accepted fact of history it is the single best attested event in the entire Bible. It is mentioned everywhere

No one who has ever read even a small part of the NT would deney that Jesus Died.

As for "hogwash language" in the Bible. What would Mohammad say about your disrespectful attitude concerning the
Scriptures?


If a book claims to be scripture yet contradicts such a well attested part of God’s genuine revelation only a fool out of his mind would fail to reject it out right .

That is how we know that the Guy who wrote the Quran had no idea what the Bible said

Peace

Richard said...

Osama,

only a deluded retard would come to that conclusion.

Your not dishonest. Your straight up insane.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Osama

Why arent you answering my questions? Trying to deflect I see. Why havent you responded to what i said?!

I already made a fool of you once here where everyone can see and there is a dialog!

So what does the loser do? He goes to his own protected site where i cannot respond and runs like a coward with his tail between his legs.


Is there a forum on your site where I can expose you again?

You know you were spanked so you run to your (cave) were you cannot be refuted over and over again.

Just like the coward you are. You dont show up for scheduled debates and then when you are refuted and exposed here you run to your site where there is no possible chance you will most certainly be refuted, and hide! Pathetic. Only Muslims would fall for your deceit and nonsense!

]What kind of person goes to a public site and debates, gets annihilated, and then goes home locks the door and rewrites history with logical fallacies and lies and wont let anyone respond?

I know! A fascist liar named Osama Abdullah! PATHETIC!

Osama Abdallah said...

Fifth Monarchy Man,

Quoting Paul's books, a man who never even met Jesus in person, doesn't prove anything. As to your quote from the book of Mark, people thought he was dead, but he was never dead. He was massaged and healed in the cave that he was resting in for three days. And he left the cave on the second day. They found the winding sheets unwound.

Paul is irrelevant. He himself said that he wasn't even sure whether the Holy Spirit was inpiring him or not. He's a joke.

Osama Abdallah

Melvyn Cyrus said...

@ Osama

"Christianity fails, and it is false."

The problem Osama is that, if Christianity is false, Islam is false two.
There are two main possibilities for Christianity to be false:
- the disciples were big liars and started a fraud
- the disciples were stupid and believe in something false (resurrection...)

None of them is acceptable for Islam. The Qur'an says:
"5.111 And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): Believe in Me and in My messenger, they said: We believe. Bear witness that we have surrendered (unto Thee) "we are muslims"."
The disciples were muslims and were inspired by Allah.

These are the two ways critics are explaining the resurrection away and both of them condemn the Qur'an two.

Maybe you could pretend (unlike the vast majority of secular scholars) that the "true" disciples did never believe nor pretend Jesus to be risen, but then they are the biggest losers that the history of religion has ever seen, because they couldn't pass on their message (whereas founders of false religions did). This would contradict the above verse (what kind of "inspiration" did they have then?!) and, of course, S. 61.14.
Any buffoon who pretends to be a prophet can get some disciples and pass his message to the next generation. Now, you would say that Isa, one of the greatest prophets of Allah, could not do it.
Anyway, pretending that the disciples did never preach the resurrection simply contradicts whatever historical facts we have. There is not any proof for the muslim assertion. But since muslims don't care about logic and historical proofs, the above shows that your Qur'an contradicts the third option as well.

Melvyn Cyrus said...

To summarize:

Christianity is false => Jesus' disciples were stupid/liars/losers => the Qur'an is wrong => Islam is false

It's very simple!

Melvyn Cyrus said...

@Osama

Paul was well acquainted with the apostles (see Galatians 2). His message was in accordance with that of the apostles of Jesus. We do not have any historical proof that Paul was preaching a message radically different from that of the apostle of Jesus, as the neon post-mohammedian view would imply (Muhammed didn't even know who Paul was, he is the center of the modern muslim critic, but is not even mentioned ONCE in the Qur'an!!!).

Imagine what difference you would need for Islam to be eligible to be true :
Paul: Christ risen, dead on the cross, Son of God...
Muslim disciples: Christ not risen, didn't die, mere human...
Paul would have been the utter blasphemer for the muslim apostles, and they would have done whatever was in their power to stop them (oops! I forgot that the muslim disciples "inspired" by Allah were the ultimate losers). We do not have absolutely anything pointing to that. Even if you look at the non-bilbical data, an harmony between the messages of Paul and some other apostles is implied (St Ignatius of Antiochia, St Polycarp...).

The existence of the muslim disciples is a pure invention to explain away the difference between the message of the Qur'an and apostolic Christianity. The message of the true disciples was consistent with that of the early christian communities, which were not all founded by Paul!
Paul was not the only early Christian teacher. Some early apostolic fathers were not Paul's disciples. St Clement was a disciple of Peter, St Ignatius a disciple of Peter and John, St Polycarp a disciple of John. Even if Paul was wrong, you are still faced with a mass of problems.

Melvyn Cyrus said...

"Quoting Paul's books, a man who never even met Jesus in person"

Are you kidding! And what about Muhammad who lived six centuries after Jesus! Who didn't even know what the Gospel/Injil is, who made a mistake almost every time he declared something related to christian theology, who quoted from apocryphal christian books written not before the end of the second century, sometimes even later, who took Mary for the sister of Aaron and the daughter of Imram (pointing out to Miriam, the sister of Moses), who didn't have a clue about the content of the New Testament, who declared that Allah helped the early Christians (61:14), who believed that Jesus was risen, become uppermost, who couldn't even spell Jesus' name, who coulnd't even mention neither one of the 12 apostle nor Paul by name...

Who is the big joke???

Fifth Monarchy Man said...

osama said:


Quoting Paul's books, a man who never even met Jesus in person, doesn't prove anything.

I say,

You asked me to refute that Christ never died from the NT. Now you move the goal posts and rule Paul’s writings out of bounds. Can’t you understand how foolish this sort of backpeddling makes you look.

As to the claim that Paul never met Jesus in person. This claim is also readily refuted from the NT. Have you even read the NT?

Besides of the random quotes I posted 4 were from books not written by Paul and 2 were from the very lips of Jesus himself.

I would go so far as to say that there is not a single book in the NT that I could not use to easily refute your claim that Jesus did not die on the cross

you said,

As to your quote from the book of Mark, people thought he was dead, but he was never dead.

I say,

So you ask me to refute you from the NT and when I do this you claim that the writers of the NT can’t be trusted.

Was Jesus mistaken when he claimed repeatedly that he died?

You said,

He was massaged and healed in the cave that he was resting in for three days. And he left the cave on the second day. They found the winding sheets unwound.

I say,

So you are asking the world to discount the actual words of Jesus and the eyewitness testimony of his closest companions contained in the Infallible Word of God and accept the speculation of an internet Muslim with no support at all not even from his own corrupt sources.

Do you not understand how foolish all this makes you look?

.....
I would like to make an appeal to the Muslims who lurk here.

There are many Christians here who are unfamiliar with Islam. Do you want them to get the impression that this sort of argumentation is acceptable for Muslims.


Peace

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Osama

Quoting Mohamed who was not there when Jesus died on the cross.

What a hypocrite. Man you are an ignoramus.

Osama dont quote anything from Mohamed the child molester about Jesus. Because he wasnt there!

You are pathetic! And we all know that Mohamed was a liar, hypocrite, sinner who didnt know if he was going to your pimp Allahs whore house.

Mohamed is irrelevant! Your so dumb its fascinating!

Mark xivlxii said...

@Osama
"He was placed in a cave, and he was anointed and massaged with medicine during the three days he was there, and after he healed he physically left the cave"

From what I have read about how Romans whipped people, I dont think anyone would want a massage afterwards.
A whip consisting of leather straps or thongs, which had small pieces of metal or sharp bone attached was used. Sometimes the Romans replaced the bone with metal hooks to tear at the skin. Using this whip, it could quickly remove the skin off of a person and could tear you down to the bone.
Now, any bit of common sense tells us that a massage is not gonna put you back on your feet in three days. I doubt anyone would even want to be touched after such torture. This is assuming you even survived a Roman soldier scourging and didnt spend the next few hours nailed to a cross and a spear stabbed into you.
A little bit more thought and you can see how weak your argument is.

The Berean Search said...

Osama: "Quoting Paul's books, a man who never even met Jesus in person, doesn't prove anything."

Since you claims to reject revelation that comes through people who didn't meet Jesus "in person", I would like you to tell us all when exactly did Muhammad meet Jesus "in person"?

Thanks for sharing with all of your reasoning for why you should reject Muhammad and the Quran.

Witness the inconsistency of Osama Abdallah!! The mind boggles at how he can contain so many conflicting and contradicting beliefs in one brain.

...Of course I don't expect someone who believes a magic rub-down of some sort healed Jesus from a Roman flogging, crucifixion, and death blow to be consistent.

Fifth Monarchy Man said...

I think some here are unnecessarily conceding a point to Osama.

Surely the encounter on the road to Damascus would qualify meeting Jesus in person?


Paul certainly thought so

Quote

Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?
(1Co 9:1a)

End quote:

The historian Luke says Paul actually talked with Jesus.

quote:

And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.
(Act 9:5)

End quote

The original disciples agreed that Christ had commissioned Paul to be an apostle just as he did with them

Quote:

On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles),
(Gal 2:7-8)

End quote:

In fact the most ancient section of the NT not only affirms that Christ died but also makes it abundantly clear that Paul like the other apostles saw the risen Jesus “in person”.

Quote:

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.
(1Co 15:3-8)

End quote:


To claim that Paul did not see Jesus “in person” is simply not Biblical and unhistorical.

I’m sure that Osama would say that Mohammad saw the angel Gabriel “in person” yet this claim has much less support than I’ve provided here for Paul’s "in person" meeting with Jesus.

Peace

Panneer Savariappan said...

Hello Brother Osama Abdallah,
Please read Quran and Hadith and prove for your self how come God can give you such a book. Pray to God to guide you to the right path rather than talking about scriptures. Don't lose your SOUL Brother. I came to know Islam and thought of becoming a muslim and tried to know about Islam but I felt it is not from God and it is a cult.
I have seen demon/devil with my own eyes in my village one time in the night before that I have only heard about that. And also another time the spirit caught me as well and my father cast out the spirit in the name of Jesus. I started thinking how come the Name of Jesus has so much power and the demon run away when we take Jesus name. I think/believe Jesus is God otherwise demon/devil will not afraid of Jesus. Please think it over, if you start thinking then Jesus will answer you somehow and HE may appear to you. So please start thinking about saving your SOUL. If possible go and attend some Holy spirit filled church or meet someone who has filled with Holy spirit. I am sure you will meet Jesus some point of time and HE will answer you. So stop talking about scriptures and stop finding fault.
Just watch these Videos and see how Holy spirit acts on the people and God heals the people to show HIS love for us. HOPE you will find JESUS. Just ask yourself why GOD is NOT guiding the muslim through HOLY SPIRIT. Can you cast out Demon/Devil in the name of Muhammad?, but WHY in Jesus name the demon runs away. Please think it over Brother. Jesus Loves You.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U_do2WJyRc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMBgLG-Opq4&feature=related
http://www.abm.cc/

The Berean Search said...

Fifth Monarchy Man,

I agree completely. My intention was not to concede that Paul never met Jesus, my point was rather to show that by Osama's own standard he has to reject everything the Quran says about Jesus, because according to Muslim belief it is revelation that comes to them through Muhammad (who obviously never met Jesus "in person" - as Osama claims to require for the voracity of special revelation about Jesus)

Fifth Monarchy Man said...

Hey Berean,

I appreciate the point you are trying to make and I don’t want to appear too critical but I don’t think pointing out that Mohammad never met Jesus will do much good in the eyes of the typical Muslim.

So I address this to Osama and the Muslims who lurk here

From what I understand Muslims believe that Muhammad is not at all the source for the information in the Quran. They think that Muhammad was just a mouthpiece/stenographer.

On top of that according to Islam Jesus received the compete gospel ex nihilo from Allah just like Muhammad received the Quran and he then shared it with the disciples who then wrote some of it down.

When you begin with this twisted view of revelation the NT is not as good as the Quran simply because there is at least one additional step before the God's words are written down. That is why it is such a big deal for a Muslim like Osama to believe that Paul never met Jesus. If Paul never met Jesus “in person” he had no opportunity to hear the actual gospel from him and therefore his writings are “irrelevant”.


But the crazy Islamic idea is not at all how genuine revelation occurs.

Genuine revelation does not come in some sort of cosmic download received without the participation of the prophet . Instead it comes like this

Quote:

For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
(2Pe 1:21)

and

And "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David
(Act 1:16a)

And

"The Holy Spirit was right in saying to your fathers through Isaiah the prophet:
(Act 28:25b)

End quote:

And unlike the Quran the writings of Paul have all these marks of genuine revelation a fact that was recognized from the very beginning by the other apostles

Quote:

And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
(2Pe 3:15-16)

End quote:

So not only did Paul meet Jesus “in person” but he was personaly commissioned by God to deliver his message and the other apostles agreed that his books are Scripture.

Therefore to call them irrelevant is to greatly disrespect the genuine revelation of God.
I wonder what Mohammad would say if he knew the vile words Osama wrote on the internet


Peace

Tom said...

Surely, Paul had a real encounter with Our Saviour Jesus Christ, and clearly recorded with witnesses, and our Lord appeared in broad daylight, and there was a greater light that blinded Paul.Further to that Paul was verified by Anias who was directed by God to go to Paul..
We should never be distracted by this idiotic muslim claim that Paul never met Jesus.. there is so much more verification that Paul is from The God of Abraham. What verification does this muhammad has? A book that is a complete perversion of the Bible?

Galatians 1:8
"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

So Prophetic, that is why muslims need to denounce Paul and "attack" the Grace message of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jose Joseph/ CTW24 said...

Osama argues and says that Paul never met Jesus, which in differ with him on that point, but for the sake of argument let's say Paul didn't meet Jesus. What's interesting Osama is a Muslims who believes that Allah is able to give prophets, messengers revelations of future events and past events without that prophet or messenger being there themselves. Osama has argues in the past since there is no eyewitness testimony to the death of Jesus on the cross and since Paul himself didn't witness it we can"t accept their testimony. I guess if Osama is consistent anytime a prophet foretells a future event Osama can't take their testimony has valid, because that person wasn't there physically to see the events or when ever a prophet gives a narration of past events such as Moses did regarding creation. I anticipate responding that God enabled those prophets to accurately narrate past events and future events without them being there physically, which that very same response he uses can be used to refute his objection. A). It's either Osama rejects revelation in the sense persons can accurately give information about past events or future events without being there physically. B) Osama accepts that persons can give accurate information about past and future events without being there physically and discard his argument against Paul and the disciple supposedly not witnessing the death of Jesus

Jesse Morton said...

Anyone who does a plain reading of the NT will see that Jesus indisputably died. The only way that you could ever read the NT and not see that is if you have a presupposition against it.

"He was placed in a cave, and he was anointed and massaged with medicine during the three days he was there, and after he healed he physically left the cave"

This is so wrong on many counts, and anyone who has actually read the NT could not possibly claim this.

1) Jesus wasn't put in a cave; He was placed in a new tomb that had just been hewn out of stone. (You can still go see it to this day.)

2) The Romans made absolute sure that He was dead, as they put a spear through Him, and blood and water came out. If the Romans had failed to execute Him properly, then they could have been put to death themselves. Jesus was definitely dead when He was placed in the tomb. I am not merely inferring this; all four gospel accounts indicate that He "gave up His spirit". In Matthew and Mark, the Roman centurion said "truly this Man WAS (not is) the Son of God!", indicating that Jesus died. Also, Pilate marveled about how fast Jesus had died on the cross (as it could take days). It is a miracle that the scourging alone did not kill Him, as it had done to many others. Also, in Revelation 1:18, Jesus Himself said "I am He who WAS DEAD, but now is alive forevermore".

3) The tomb was sealed and guarded from the time that Jesus was interred into the tomb, to the time that the angel came and rolled to stone away to reveal an empty tomb. Therefore, no one went in there and anointed Him or put medicine on Him. Besides, medicine would have done Him no good, as He was DEAD. Even if He had still been alive, He would have needed MAJOR reconstructive surgery, something that medicine cannot cure. Also, the injuries He received would have crippled Him for months. He would not have appeared to be a victor over death and sin if such had occurred, and people would certainly have not believed in Him.

4) The Bible never actually records Jesus leaving the tomb. It says that the stone was rolled away by and angel and the tomb was found empty, except for the garments which He was wrapped in, as well as the NEATLY FOLDED handkerchief that had covered His face. (Jesus probably left these in order to prove that His body had not been stolen, as someone stealing a body would not have taken the time to remove those garments.)

Jesus is savior said...

Hey u all my bro in christ ... stop now, osama has no answers now... he has run away with the teachings of the rapist i.e. mohammad