Wednesday, October 31, 2012

Does Allah Love Unbelievers?

One of Allah’s 99 Names is al-Waddud, “the Loving.” Allah is called al-Waddud twice in the Qur’an. In 11:90, the prophet Shu’aib tells the people of Midian, “Ask pardon, then, from your Lord, then turn to Him; verily, my Lord is merciful, loving!” Likewise, in 85:12-16 we read:

Lo! the punishment of thy Lord is stern. Lo! He it is Who produceth, then reproduceth, and He is the Forgiving, the Loving, Lord of the Throne of Glory, Doer of what He will.

Nevertheless, other passages in the Qur’an qualify Allah’s love significantly. While Allah is said to love those who do good deeds (2:195), those who are pure (2:222), those who are righteous (9:7), and those who fight in his cause (61:4), the Qur’an is equally clear that Allah has no love for transgressors (2:190), ungrateful sinners (2:276), the unjust (3:57), or the proud (4:36). Even more significantly, the Qur’an states that Allah does not love non-Muslims:

Qur’an 3:31-32—Say [O Muhammad]: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.

Qur’an 30:43-45—Then turn thy face straight to the right religion before there come from Allah the day which cannot be averted; on that day they shall become separated. Whoever disbelieves, he shall be responsible for his disbelief, and whoever does good, they prepare (good) for their own souls, that He may reward those who believe and do good out of His grace; surely He does not love the unbelievers.

Notice that 3:31-32 makes Allah’s love contingent on whether a person believes in Muhammad. This is similar to what we find in 19:46, which declares: “Lo! those who believe and do good works, the Beneficent will appoint for them love.”

Hence, although Allah is called “the Loving,” the Qur’an only means by this that Allah will love people once they believe in him and obey his prophet. The god of Islam has no love for sinners and unbelievers.

Interestingly, the “Love me first and I’ll love you back” kind of love exhibited by Allah in the Qur’an is condemned by Jesus in Matthew 5:43-48:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”

For more on the god of Islam, visit our “Allah” page. For more on Allah's love in the Qur'an, read Farid Mahally's excellent article, "A Study of the Word 'Love' in the Qur'an."

84 comments:

_ said...

I went over to the Allah page. it's funny to see moohamid decsribing his imagination.

Yes, moo your imagination is wonderful, loving, kind, merciful.

Funny stuff.

Baron Eddie said...

Allah's names was 99 names and it has been like that for 1400 years

But it has been abrogated just like everything else!

29 names were taken out recently and replaced by new 30 names!

so now Allah has 100 names ... WOW!

for example the number (60)Al-Muhyi = “The Giver of Life” was taken out

I would agree with them that Allah is not the Giver of Life ...

another example

number (93) in your list "An-Nur" = “The Light” was taken out also ...

of course Allah is not the light ...

Prophet of Islam said "anyone memorized the 99 names of Allah will go to Janna(Islamic paradise)!

The prophet did not know there was 100 names!

Samatar Mohamed said...

Not a convincing argument. David brings up verses in the Quran showing Allah (swt) does not love those who disbelieve in Allah, those who are unjust, etc... We both agree on this point as the verses explicitly states. However, my issue is where David says that God will only love those who love him first. Allah (swt) extends his love to everyone, and only those who cast aside Gods love are those who God does not love. So rather, God loves everyone, except those who decide to dismiss or reject his love. Satan would be the perfect example. God extended his love for satan when he was in heaven with the angels, but when Satan challenged and disobeyed God did God not love Satan. Another quick point I had to make is that even the bible shows that God did not love everyone. Romans 9:13, Psalms 5, etc... are good examples showing God hating not only the sin but the sinners. So here is a question for you David, Did Yahweh Love EVERYONE?

David Wood said...

Nice try Samatar. Try reading my post again. Maybe you'll understand it this time. FACT: According to the Qur'an, Allah only loves people who first love him. FACT: Jesus condemns this sort of love. What does Satan or anything else have to do with this?

But let me make things even more clear for you.

(1) According to Islam, Jesus was a prophet.
(2) Jesus condemned the sort of love exhibited by Allah.
(3) Therefore, Allah can't be the God preached by Jesus.

Let me guess, you're going to raise a bunch of silly objections now, and fail to recognize that your religion self-destructed the moment the Qur'an affirmed the scriptures of the Christians and Jews. How original!

David Wood said...

Samatar says that Allah extends love to everyone, but then changes his mind when they reject it. But this is exactly the opposite of what we read in 19:46, which says, "Lo! those who believe and do good works, the Beneficent will appoint for them love.”

Notice that Allah appoints love for people who believe, not for everybody. Apparently Samatar is ashamed of his god and trying to cover for him.

Tiwas Tiwasok said...

@ Samatar,
You quoted Romans 9:13 and Psalm 5 as a proof that God in the Bible chooses whom He love or hate?

1. You are actually making a Tu quoque fallacy.
"You're saying that Allah doesn't love everybody? well, your God too.."

2. What is the full context of these Bible verses that you quoted? You didn't gave any. Does these verses entail positive hate?

One thing I found interesting, you said it was not a convincing argument (that Allah doesn't love everybody and he loves only those who love him first), yet you agree with what the verses explicitly state (which lead to the conclusion that Allah only love those who love him first)?

Baron Eddie said...

I am glad that someone mentioned Satan(Shytan) as mentioned in Islam.

Satan(Shytan) became Muslim (Al-hamdu Llah) and Satan has relationship
with the prophet of Islam Muhammad!

As mentioned in "Sahih Muslim" in book Sifat al-kyama wa al-janna
wa al-nar under section(Bab) "Tahreesh Al-shytan o Baa-thehee
sarayah L-Fitnat al-nas ...

Basically, the prophet of Islam was talking to a crowed and he said
that all of you have Satan ...

And the crowed asked Muhammad "You too?"
And he said "Yes, me too!"
but Allah helped on Satan and Satan became Muslim ...

This is disaster ... WOW

and not only that but Satan tells Muhammad with good things!

Shouldn't Allah tells Muhammad with good things ...

Arrow said...

Allah loves only the believing Muslims. Everyone else will go to hell, regardless how moral and righteous they were. For example:

In Sura 4:56, Satan says: “Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment.”

In Sura 7:50, Lucifer says: “And the companions of the Fire will call to the companions of Paradise, "Pour upon us some water or from whatever Allah has provided you." They will say, "Indeed, Allah has forbidden them both to the disbelievers ."

In Sura 35:36, Beelzebub says: “And for those who disbelieve will be the fire of Hell. [Death] is not decreed for them so they may die, nor will its torment be lightened for them.”

Arrow said...

I find the Muslim arguments quite compelling. Therefore, I have decided to embrace the religion of truth and proclaim the Shahada: I bear witness that there is no God but God and that Muhammad is the messenger of Satan.

Can I go to Mecca now?

bob said...

The Love of the God of the Bible.

God always loves everyone first before they love him.
He would not create someone he hated.
He loved us even before we existed.

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you. Jeremiah 1:5 (spoken to Jeremiah but applicable to all)

Since God is 100% love...

He who does not love does not know God, for God is love 1John 4:8

...there is no room for hate.

His essence and character does not change because of someone else's actions.

He has disgust and revulsion (translated as hate in some scriptures), sadness and anger at the sin and crime, but not hate towards the sinner; otherwise he would hate Islamist's who follow Mohammad's example and are alway's sinning and breaking his commandments, i.e. "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness" etc. and "You shall love your nieghbour as yoursef" Leviticus 19:18 (a nieghbour is anyone in our near vicinity at any time)

But God does not hate Islamist's or he would not have gone to all the trouble to hang on the cross for them (John 3:16).

God does not even demonstrate any hate towards Satan as shown in the book of Job.

Now there was a day when the sons of God [the fallen angels] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
And the Lord said to Satan, "From where do you come?" (a polite manner of greeting visitor's) So Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it." (a polite manner of answering the host's greeting)

Then (it gets down to business) the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job...?"

Jesus (God was manifested in the flesh 1Tim 3:16), never demonstrated any hate towards Satan either, but just got on with the business of rescuing us from sin and the devil's hold over us.

Hatred is Satan's character and essence, not God's.

Compared to God's love, the devil's hate is a completely inferior and weak product.

"Our heart is much too limited to be able to grasp the scope of this great blessing. For such is its magnitude that if anyone were able to comprehend it... if we had a full understanding of this love of God for men, a joy so great would come to us from this recognition that we would promptly die because of it." Luther

Samatar Mohamed said...

@David

I don't think you even understood my argument. I said God loves everyone except for those who do not follow his commands knowingly. According to Islam, all children are born muslims, hence why children will go to heaven if they perish. So God does Love everyone from the moment they are born. Only those who have heard the true message of Islam and are willfully disobedient or unjust, etc... are those who God does not extend his love to. After all, these people have committed such a terrible sin that they will suffer an eternity in hell. It only makes sense that God would not love those people. And even the Old testament seems to agree with this so I do not see how you have any basis to stand on. The confusion may lie in what our definition of love really is. I equate love with having a positive affection for someone else. It doesn't even seem rational to think that God would have a positive affection for someone who has willfully disobeyed him (i.e. Satan) even after all God has given him/her, and who he will punish with eternal suffering. You still haven't responded to whether Yahweh loves the unbelievers, I'll be waiting.

Aqeel A. said...

I am a Muslim there is lot of thing i don't understan in Islam and one of that is we all children of God or Allah why in Islam Allah want's muslim to killed unbelievers for eg,if a man has three children how can he tell to his one child to killed his both brothers. thats mean the father is bad person.

Michael said...

What is the common Muslim defense to the claim that Allah loves not the disbelievers? I usually hear them say that "no that's not what the verse means, it means Allah doesn't love that person's sins but he loves all." In a way I'm refreshed to hear Arrow agree with what Allah says but he's the only Muslim I know who admits it. Thoughts?

Tiwas Tiwasok said...

@ Samatar,
I think the confusion lies not on the definition of love, but your categorical mistake by putting satan in the same group as 'everybody'.

Unlike us, satan wasn't created in the image of God. Satan is the embodiment of evil and unholiness. Everything that God hates, satan is and does.

So, to equate God's hate for satan with Him having a lesser degree of favor or love towards us is a good move to deflect the problem of Allah's grace/love as stated in the Quran. But, it's still a categorical mistake.

Baron Eddie said...

Satan became Muslim and Satan command Mohammad


The number is 2814
[2814] حدثنا عثمان بن أبي شيبة وإسحاق بن إبراهيم قال إسحاق أخبرنا، وقال عثمان حدثنا جرير عن منصور عن سالم بن أبي الجعد عن أبيه عن عبد الله بن مسعود قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم: ما منكم من أحد إلا وقد وكل به قرينه من الجن قالوا وإياك يا رسول الله قال وإياي إلا أن الله أعانني عليه فأسلم فلا يأمرني إلا بخير

This Hadith Sahih and ranked good

I want my Muslim brothers and sisters to watch for their Souls and for their eternal life

I pray that those deceivers (who don't translate everything and mis-tranlate some) their efforts
will come to nothing ...

Here is what Google translate to

"Tell us Osman Bin Abi Shaybah and Isaac Ben Abraham said Isaac told us, said Osman
told us Jarir Mansour Salem bin Abi Ja'd from his father Abdullah bin Masood said: The
Messenger of Allah peace be upon him: what one of you, however, has all its companion
of Gin said "and you, O Messenger of Allah" said, Me too, but Allah helped me Voslm not
telling me but okay"

I could tell those in Google Arabic department are Voslm "Muslims" ha ha ha
It should be "became Muslim"

Baron Eddie said...

Check this deception

in English site the above hadith is numbered 6757 (Sahih Muslim)
The Book Giving Description of the Day of Judgement, Paradise and Hell
(Kitab Sifat Al-Qiyamah wal Janna wan-Nar)'



Sahih Muslim in English

number 6757

and in Arabic is not the same

Sahih Muslim in Arabic

number 2814

In Arabic it says "Satan became Muslim" فأسلم

Why it not translated?

And how Satan command Mohammad "command me but for good"

Did Satan became and Angel?

I thought Allah suppose command for good!

Samatar Mohamed said...

@Aqeel

You said there were somethings you did not understand about Islam. My advice would be for you to examine the Quran, hadith, and the historical context of how certain verses in the Quran were used. It would be best if you went to someone knowledgeable about Islam, but don't just take his/her word for it. Check everything on your own also to make sure everything you are being told is accurate. You said that we are the children of God. I don't quite know where you got that from because that is not an Islamic teaching whatsoever and is borderline shirk. We are servants of God, not his children. He is our creator, we are his creation.

@Tiwas

You said I made a mistake by comparing satan with people with respect to God's love. I think my argument is solid and here is why. First off, it is important to note that satan wasn't always evil. He was at one point a good servant of God and it would only make sense that Yawheh would Love him. But once he rebelled against God did he not Love satan. I see it as the same for us humans. God extends his love to anyone until they decide to abandon it. After all, aren't Satan and unbelievers going to suffer an eternal torment in hell for the severity of their actions. You also said that humans are made in the image of God, I agree but what is your point. I hope you aren't using that as some sort of argument to show why God would love us and not satan. Yes, we are different from Satan, other animals, angels. But God loves all of his creation except for those who disobey him willfully. My final point is that if you look at the Bible and Quran, you see the same view on this matter. So if David has a problem with God not loving disbelievers, he should look to the Bible as well.

bob said...

The Koran says that God does not love sinners and unbelievers, but this is just attributing weak sinful human nature to God's character; which is simply trying to make God into an idol of man's own invention; an invention presided over by the devil.

God's nature and essence (love and light) cannot change because of the behaviour of others. His nature and essence stands alone and is independent of the wilful sins/crimes, blasphemy and disobedience of man or angel.

This is why it was possible for him to...

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but everlasting life. John 3:16

...rescue us from sin and Satan's hold over us in the first place.

_ said...

Samatar,

Asked "Does YHWH love unbelievers?"

Yes, he does.

See John 3 and the verses provided in this post.

Fyi, Theologians do distinguish between God's redemptive and general love.

Samatar let me take you to school. You see when the old testament speaks of God hating people, it's putting it in words we can understand.

God doesn't hate like we do. Our hatred is sinful. YHWH's hatred is perfect.

Did you read the verses provided in the post Samatar? In spite of God's hatred for the wicked, he still blesses them.

How about your god Samatar?

I'll be waiting.



_ said...

Samatar,


Romans 5:8

8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.


See that while we were unbelievers God set his love on us.

Arrow said...

Dear Michael,

In a way I'm refreshed to hear Arrow agree with what Allah says but he's the only Muslim I know who admits it.

Muslim?

Cristo Te Ama said...

@Samatar

Samatar your explaination fails, it seems you don't want to read the verses so i quote it for you:

Qur’an 3:31-32—Say [O Muhammad]: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers

-So let's think about this: If i don't love Allah (which i don't because i believe he is satan nor jews, Atheists dont because they dont believe in any god, Buddist dont because they believe in other kind of spirituality, hindus dont because they dont believe in Alah at all), i don't follow muhammad (which i don't because i believe he was evil, nor atheists, buddists, hindus,jews,etc), and abviously i have turned my back to him because i want nothing with such a God ( as atheists, Buddist, Hindus, Jews, etc), then surely Allah does not love any of us (the unbelievers), so we are forced to think that allah only loves Muslims... because you are the only ones who obey Allah and Muhammad and havent turned your backs on them. I mean how difficult is that to understand?

Also i find kinda funny how desperate you try to "Christianize" your God, to make him appear good and lovely as ours is, but if you travel 2 centuries back, and ask Muslims with their Quran in their hands: Does Allah love non Muslims? they would asnwer you very fast : NO!! and that would be supported by the Quran, but now that Islam is exposed to Christianity and other beliefs and opinions they can't just shut up with Shariah, you have to change the personality of your God to make him appear more like ours, you should ask yourself why you have to do that, why you have to twist the verses to make him appear more like YHWH.

Peace.

PS: this is true love:

Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

Cristo Te Ama said...

@Aqeel A

That's a good question, because you could accept this fight between brothers if they have become really bad and twisted towards them and other people, so the rightous one in front of the eyes of the father is commanded by him to kill the others 2, when the fathers knows they will not change and even in that case with pain in his heart. But in this case (Islam) we have a father (Allah), who deceives 2 of their sons (let's say Jews and Christians, because the quran actually say he deceive us to believe in what we believe), but even being deceived, we are not twisted and totally evil, we try to serve God the best we can (considering it was him who allowed his word being corrupted, meaning torah and inyil), and yet he tells the other son (muslim) to hate us, kill us, torture us, crucify us, slave our people, rape our women, etc. Then you wonder how come the muslim son is the good son? when he is the one who is actually twisted, and also you wonder why the father decided to deceive the other 2 sons so the muslim son could kill them and do all those evil deeds to them. If the other 2 sons are the bad, the corrupted, the evil, why is it the muslim son is the one allowed to kill, slave, rape, steal, lie, marry little kids, torture, etc etc.

I hope you think about this, and my advice to you is also the same Samatar gave you, "read the quran" and the tafsir, and you will see how evil it is, but if you want to notice it even more, read also the Bible, read at least one of these books: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and if you are yet interested read romans or Hebrews. May God open your eyes and be saved by his love and grace.

Michael said...

Hi Arrow,

No I'm not Muslim but when I ask my Muslim friends about this verse they give a different meaning of the verse (that Allah everyone including those who reject his message). I'm refreshed to hear your straight forwardness that the verse means what it says. Thanks.

_ said...

Arrow,

Are you kidding?

Ever hear what Martin Luther thought about your prophet it's really funny.

Luther believed that Muhammad was the first born child of Satan. It can't get any better than that.

Arrow said...

Dear Michael,

No I'm not Muslim

I know you're not, but you thought I am.

Nevermind.

Samatar Mohamed said...

@_

Sorry let me make my question more specific. Does Yahweh love ALL unbelievers?

You said:

"Samatar let me take you to school. You see when the old testament speaks of God hating people, it's putting it in words we can understand.

God doesn't hate like we do. Our hatred is sinful. YHWH's hatred is perfect. "

I don't quite see your point. I never argued that God's hatred of certain humans is sinful like the way we hate other people. My point is that the Bible said that God hated or did not love certain people. You haven't adressed this point.

@Christo Te Ama

My previous posts display my position. God extends his love to everyone, except for those who turn his/her back on him. So obdedient muslims (jinns and humans), children, and those who have not heard the message of Islam are not under the umbrella of those who God does not love. Rather, those who have heard his true and clear message, but choose to rebel or oppose it are the ones who God does not love. You have heard the message of Islam in its true form and because you choose to reject it, God does not love you. Just like Satan who disobeyed God. Now I must ask though, what is your issue exactly. Would you really expect God to love you after you have committed the worst possible sin (i.e. associating partners with him). The problem with christians is that they separate the action of sinning from the sinner. Remember, there is a reason the sinner is getting punished and not the sin. Do those who reject and abandon God's love deserve to still be loved?

_ said...

Looks like Samatar is on the run again.

_ said...

Samatar,

Yes, YHWH loves EVERYBODY Christian or not. However, he doesn't love everybody the same.

Once again Samatar you have to read the bible as a whole.


coptic crusader said...

@ Samatar
Not sure if you have children, but whether you do or not, if they sin or do wrong I'm sure u punish them but never the less I'm sure u love them no less? Are you saying ur love is greater than God? God is Love in it's purest form, we are his creation. He as a prefect judge must punish us 4 our sins just as u punish ur children but because his love 4 us is unwavering he gave his only begotten son that we may be saved!

_ said...

I think Samatar's problem is the fact that scripture says God hates the wicked/ sinners but the new testament says God loves his enemies ie the wicked/sinners.

I guess Samatar thinks these poses a problem for the bible.

Remember Samatar love and hate are not mere feelings but are also actions.

Anyway, crusader made a good point. Samatar have you ever been angry or felt hatred for somebody that you love?

Samatar Mohamed said...

@coptic

"Not sure if you have children, but whether you do or not, if they sin or do wrong I'm sure u punish them but never the less I'm sure u love them no less"

That is a good point on surface level but not if you really think about it. As a parent, when you punish your child or children, the reason is so they learn from their errors and don't make the same mistake again. So although, you are punishing them, you are actually helping them in avoid any harm in the future because of their actions. So clearly the reason for punishing them is out of love and the intent is good. But when God throws unbelievers in the hell fire, this is no discipline that would help unbelievers in the future. There is no good that comes out of burning in the hell fire forever. Therefore, the argument may seem strong on surface level, but not when you analyze the analogy you provided.

@_

Have you even read the verses I showed you. Lets see Romans 9, verses 13 to 15.

13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!

15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”


You clearly see that YHWH says he loved Jacob, but he hated Esau. Unless you are trying to pervert the passage, God is saying he loved Jacob, but he did not love Esau. Are you trying to tell me that hate does not mean "not loving". How do you define hate. hate is described as an extreme form of "dislike" against someone or something. To say that God loved Esau after the clear evidence is just you being biased because you are a christian. Your only other choice would be to agree to the obvious meaning of the verse, therefore, implying that the God of the bible does not love everyone after all.

Cristo Te Ama said...

@Samatar

You said: "those who have heard his true and clear message, but choose to rebel or oppose it are the ones who God does not love."

So he doesn't love us, that's what we are talking about, he despises us and even call us the worst of creatures, in the other hand my God loves you samatar even when you deny to believe in his son sacrifice, his words in the Bible, his Justice, so David Wood is right when he says that Allah's love is a low love as Jesus said, because he will only love me if i love him first, but if i refuse to love him, he hates me, i think that's a big difference between the IMperfect love of your god and our God, and that's what this is all about, we want muslims to notice how deficient is Allah's love, i.e I give a clear message to my son : "Don't go to that party" but he doesn't hear me and go anyway, SO I DONT LOVE YOU ANYMORE YOU BAD SON!!! i will only love him when he has a good behavior... i think that anyone would notice that there is a big fail in the love Allah has for us.I think that would answer this question you made to me : "Would you really expect God to love you after you have committed the worst possible sin (i.e. associating partners with him)." Even more considering it was your God who made Christianity (trinitarian) to take the upper hand, and be victorious, It was your God who decided to let his "other words" (bible and torah) be corrupted according to muslims (not the Quran), so he is the one who made us like this and now he hates us and despises us for believing in his corrupted words..

Then you said:
"The problem with christians is that they separate the action of sinning from the sinner".

How did you get to this conclusion?, we all know we are sinners, we don't say "there is a sin living inside me" we say WE ARE SINNERS, and that's exactly why we need Jesus, Samatar if we had take time to understand what you muslims believe, why at this point you don't know such obvious beliefs of our Christian faith?... But we do separate hate the sin from hating the sinner, you are a sinner in front of God, but you decide what sin is worst and what is not, and that simply makes you hypocrite.. i hate the sin of homosexuality but i will never hate the homosexual, i hate the sin of adultery but i won't hate the adulterer BECAUSE JESUS DIDN'T and those sins are commited against him not me, and even so he loved them!!

Cristo Te Ama said...

@Samatar
Then you said:

"Remember, there is a reason the sinner is getting punished and not the sin. Do those who reject and abandon God's love deserve to still be loved?"

So let me understand this, if i punish my little kid because he tried to put his finger close to the electricity or the oven, IT'S BECAUSE I HATE HIM? or it's because i love him and i know that if he keeps doing that he might one day DIE? and that happens even when i am not quite sure if he will eventually die for this, but GOD knows very well that if i keep doing some stuffs i will DIE (spiritually or even Physically), also "the sin" being punished does not make sense at all, you just have some strange idea about our beliefs that again i recommend you to take time to know what we actually believe and why we believe it.

About if those who abandon God deserve to be loved, my answer is: We all have abondoned God at some point of our lifes, wheater in the middle of our problems, or in rage, or in skepticism, ignorance, but God knows we are weak in our flesh and that's why He sent his spirit, because he loves us. Also i recommend you to read the story in the bible about "the Lost Son" in Luke 15:11-31, that will give you the clear Biblical answer from our God.

Ps: Look just how much our God loves humanity that even when we all were away from him, he sent his son so we all could be saved (John 3:16)
PS2: The way you so easily despise the people who "abandon God" shows us how low is the love the quran teach you for humanity, i.e David Wood used to be atheist, even when he knew about the Bible, so our God according to you should've hated him a lot because of that, yet our God even at that moment loved him because he knew he was lost in his own skepticism, but he finally opened his eyes and now he is being used by God so others can see the truth, the difference between YHWH and Allah behviour is that YHWH loved David all the time, but Allah would've only loved David now, but before that he hated him...

Peace.

_ said...

Samatar,

Once again you have to read the bible as a whole.

God loves Esau but in comparison to Jacob he hates Esau. No, this is not a play on words but a rational inference.

Samatar go to "gotquestions.org" and search for the article "Does god love everyone or just Christians."

It may help with this matter. Plus you can search for other topics. It's a really good site for all seekers. I like and agree with the way it is put there.

YHWH loves all men the same. However, to those that believe in Jesus he extends his love further.

Blessings.



aaron said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bob said...

God's 'hate' is better described as abhorance, disgust and anger at sin and crime.

"Esau I have hated" refers to God's rejection of the notion of physical descent as a critera for being selected for salvation. Salvation is for all.

There is neither Jew nor Greek [Gentile], there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christs, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal 3: 28, 29

This promise (not according to the flesh) from God was already established from the beginning in Genesis; because even the Jews are Gentile on the mother's side...

Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah as wife, the daughter of Bethuel the Syrian... Genesis 25:20

...so they, and the descendents of Ishmael, also cannot recieve the promise according to the flesh.

In other words physical descent from Abraham is of no benefit for our adoption by God. The adoption is by promise, not flesh and blood descent.

...nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham... That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. Romans 9:7, 8

Salvation is based on a promise to all, not on the blood line of a few, especially since...

He has made from ONE BLOOD every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth... Acts 17:26

Prasanna said...

@Samatar,

Does the true God punish sinners/unbelievers/wrongdoers in hell? I suppose we both agree that He does! However, the question that distinguishes YHWH of the Bible from Allah of the Quran is as follows....

Does the Quranic Allah love the sinners/unbelievers/wrongdoers? If so where does the Quran says so?

The God of the Bible does love the sinners/unbelievers/wrongdoers despite what they are because of what He is. That's what the Bible says so...

1. Romans 3:9-26
2. John 3:16
3. Romans 5:5-8
4. 2Peter 3:9
5. Ezekiel 18:23
6. Ephesians 2:1-7

Peace!

Prasanna said...

@Samatar,

All human beings, except infants and children, have committed sins knowingly and willfully in defiance of God's commands in one way or the other.

God is love or loving or merciful by His very nature. That's why to begin with He Himself took the initiative to help save the sinners/unbelievers/wrongdoers. The true word of God the Bible makes it clear and gives categorical statements about this truth.

The Quran being of purely human origin fails to measure up to the Bible which is the true word of God in this area! In fact, the Quran introduces Allah as the one who 'creates many men FOR hell!' (Sura 7:179) This is a clear indication of the human origin of the Quran in its description of God. Muhammad with ulterior motives and having lack of the true knowledge of the true God who is holy, just and love gave verses like this!

Peace!

Prasanna said...

@Samatar,

I need to ask you two more questions in this context. Does the Quranic Allah love those whom he creates for hell according to sura 7:179? If so, does that mean the Quranic Allah creates them for hell because he loves them so much?

Af sha said...

There is ONE God ... Jesus is not the 'son' of God nor does Jesus claim this. Paul has destroyed the Gospels, please refer to Jesus's teachings, not Paul's.

Murtadd said...

@Af Sha

You are so quick to throw your peas in the pot without
proper references.

Can you give me ONE witness that can confirm that muhammed indeed received his revelations from YOUR allah.

Also, please bring your evidence to substantiate your "claim".

If you are interested, ill prove to you that we DON'T worship the same GOD.
While you at it, can you please tell me why you still follow islam when muhammed himself confessed to fabricating your quran. See Tabari 6:111.

In Christ, for Christ, by Christ.
murtadd.wordpress.com

kingramses94 said...

You assume that loving means un-conditional love.

Nuff said!

Konterrias Roddy said...

First off, everyone is created pure according to the Qur'an. Many try to present other religions through the lenses of their own. In Islam, they say Allah does not love first because Allah loves those who do good deeds and are pure. They maybe assuming that people are born sinners in Islam like in Christianity. However, this is not a tenant of Islam. So a person has to go astray first because Allah created man in the most excellent way.

David Williams said...

ALLAH IS SATAN, HERE IS THE PROOF


Luke 4:5 Then the devil ( allah/satan ) took him up into a high mountain, and shewed him all the
KINGDOMS of the world, in the twinkling of an eye.

6 And the devil ( allah/satan ) said unto him, All this power will I ( allah/satan ) give thee, and the glory of
those KINGDOMS; for that is delivered to me, ( allah/satan ) and to whomsoever I
( allah/satan ) will, I ( allah/satan ) give it.

7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, ( allah/satan ) they shall be all thine.


Surah Ale-Imran 3:26. Say (O Muhammad ): "O ALLAH! Possessor of the KINGDOMS, You give the kingdom to whom You will, and You take the kingdom from whom You will, and You endue with honour whom You will, and You humiliate whom You will.
In Your Hand is the good. Verily, You are Able to do all things.



Rev. 11:15 And the seventh Angel blew the trumpet, and there were great voices in
heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are our Lord’s, and his Christ, and
he shall reign for evermore.

17 Saying, We give thee thanks, Lord God almighty, Which art, and Which wast,
and Which art to come, for thou hast received thy great might, and hast OBTAINED THY KINGDOM.

Jesus does not retain the kingdoms of the Earth, UNTIL, He rains on Earth AT THE END.

anonymus said...

Muslim bible doesnt really doesnt support nonmuslim supporters...in 5:32 koran :that whoever kills a humanbeing for other than manslaughther or curruption of land it shall be as if he killed all mankind.......so killing someone for curruption of land/earth is permitted......nonmuslims are not considered innocent in koran but satan according to:45:31.........koran doesnt include statement that forbids killing of nonmuslim but says its muslim duty to go angaint nonbeliever since thede seened as corruption

nour said...

I would like to respond to Baron Eddie regarding the issue about SATAN becoming a Muslim and helping the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Hello sir, well, here is the issue, you actually either misunderstood the Hadith or you changed the word Satan so that it would serve your agenda ;) because the original Hadith states CLEARLY that

"There is not one of you who does not have a jinn appointed to be his constant companion. They (companions) said: "And you too, Oh Messenger of Allah?" He said: "Me too, but Allah has helped me and he has submitted, so that he only helps me to do good."

OBVIOUSLY the Hadith doesn't say Satan, but it says jinn, the word jinn in Arabic means "demons" not satan, therefore the Hadith says that Allah helped the prohpet Muhamed (pbuh) convert his own demon to Islam NOT SATAN!! So don't try to play with the words please, and if you even know anything about the English language you will know that a demon doesn't mean the same thing as satan. However, satan was always an infidel, not because he disbelieves in Allah (swt), but because he refused to submit to Allah's order by prostrating to Adam (PRIDE).

Don Dan said...

So if the Christian God/Jesus, lives the righteous and the righteous then why would he throw people who don't believe in him into hell, that doesn't sound like much love to me.
Frankly, it sounds exactly like Islamic God, both deities will cast you into hell if you don't proclaim their tenets of belief

Life born to live for Jesus Christ said...

Get to know the heart of the God of His Son, Jesus Christ, whom is called Love and you will see the Islamic God and the Christian God are diametrically opposed. The God of Jesus Christ is the God who actively reaches out to us daily when we are still sinners and is always trying to get our attention to deliver us from hell. That is love. Whereas the Islamic God never once from within our hearts helps us in our sinful ways.

Jhughes said...

Allah loves no one not even himself. Allah is the red dragon the devil and Satan who is a bright colorful fallen angel with a deceptively beautiful voice speaking no truth at all. He fooled Mohammed into thinking he was Gabriel. Gabriel is kind, gentle and thoughtful. He would not terrify people choking them like that deceiver in the cave.

jacob de jongh said...

I've read thru the articl and comments what struck me was Q3:31. Maybe off the point. It seems to me allah had doubt in muhaamad. If he was the selected prophet by allah. Why would allah still say. "If you turn from islam" my 2nd point is saw an article of a 2000 year old barnabas bible denying the crucifix. identical to the kuran. So where did muhammad came about that revelation and who gave it to him.

Jss Darrang said...

The best logical and rational answer can be find itself in Quran 5:18 But the Jews and the Christians say, "We are the children of Allah and His beloved." Say, "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" Rather, you are human beings from among those He has created. He forgives whom He wills, and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them, and to Him is the [final] destination.

d w said...

@ Samatar Mohamed

If we are all servants, than submitting changes nothing.

If we are free children of God, than submitting is everything.

You do not worship God, you worship a text. The God of your text doesn't deserve worship. The God of the Bible humbles a man with love, not fear.

Therefore I submit to God and his love. I pray for your eyes to see and your heart to open.

God is awesome. If your text doesn't reveal an awesome God, instead just a powerful God, it is not God.

Search for God because nothing else will matter soon. Find him or lose him forever.

In the name of our Holy Father pray, amen.

d w said...

@ My fellow Man, who are all children of God

We all put the horse before the carriage sometimes, in this life. We think we must. We believe we must know things. This gets us into trouble.

We did not come here to learn to define God. Won't he do that for us when we see him? We are in his image and yet nothing like him.

Transformation is our reason for this life. To transcend this creation the way God does.

Here is were we put the cart first though. To learn who God is and what his love his, you must experience it. Has anyone that relationship with God?

Why then are we defining a love that only God actually knows?

We can only know what we have experienced; everything else is faith.

Faith is so beautiful to God and yet we often choose to operate on assumptions.

Here is one of the few things we have yet to experience but still we know will happen.

We will die.

Still I do not understand death, not really.

This is because it is something I have not yet experienced.

What we should stop thinking is that we can comprehend in a meaningful way what God really feels and thinks.

If you cannot operate without that knowledge, study Jesus. Jesus was the embodiment of God on earth. If you want to know what God love is, read the new testament and study the new covenant.

The new covenant tells us everything we NEED to know.

Put the horse first and start with separating what we know from what we THINK we know.

Forget what you think you know and then start the process. You can't learn if you already know everything.

We came here to transform into something more. We are not there yet and that is okay. God has a plan and its bigger than any of us can see. Know that. Stop fighting, worship God and he will show you your path.

You will die. God won't. We will be judged by our creator. Not all of us will be saved. There is infinite love in God and that is why he gives us the separation we seek if we so choose. God loves us so much, he will even let us go if we choose, even if it wasn't what he wanted for us.

So my answer to your question is that all of God's creations are loved by him in the true meaning of the word love.

But if you want to change the meaning of the word love and ask does God have warm fuzzies for sinners, you should just ask him.

God has an open door policy meaning you can talk to him at any time. If he doesn't give you the answer you want, that might be because we rarely see things the way he does.

Lastly, my question about your question. How does it matter who God has warm fuzzies for?

God says nothing of that being a determinant for anything at any point.

It is my belief that we fight for nothing, we hurt in the name of good, and live completely lost while knowing everything all along.

Worship God. There is nothing else. Come to him. There is nothing he gets more warm and fuzzy about than that. That's my guess at least. I hope I am not wrong.

d w said...

@ My fellow Man, who are all children of God

We all put the cart before the horse sometimes, in this life. We think we must. We believe we must know things. This gets us into trouble.

We did not come here to learn to define God. Won't he do that for us when we see him? We are in his image and yet nothing like him.

Transformation is our reason for this life. To transcend this creation the way God does.

Here is were we put the cart first though. To learn who God is and what his love his, you must experience it. Has anyone that relationship with God?

Why then are we defining a love that only God actually knows?

We can only know what we have experienced; everything else is faith.

Faith is so beautiful to God and yet we often choose to operate on assumptions.

Here is one of the few things we have yet to experience but still we know will happen.

We will die.

Still I do not understand death, not really.

This is because it is something I have not yet experienced.

What we should stop thinking is that we can comprehend in a meaningful way what God really feels and thinks.

If you cannot operate without that knowledge, study Jesus. Jesus was the embodiment of God on earth. If you want to know what God love is, read the new testament and study the new covenant.

The new covenant tells us everything we NEED to know.

Put the horse first and start with separating what we know from what we THINK we know.

Forget what you think you know and then start the process. You can't learn if you already know everything.

We came here to transform into something more. We are not there yet and that is okay. God has a plan and its bigger than any of us can see. Know that. Stop fighting, worship God and he will show you your path.

You will die. God won't. We will be judged by our creator. Not all of us will be saved. There is infinite love in God and that is why he gives us the separation we seek if we so choose. God loves us so much, he will even let us go if we choose, even if it wasn't what he wanted for us.

So my answer to your question is that all of God's creations are loved by him in the true meaning of the word love.

But if you want to change the meaning of the word love and ask does God have warm fuzzies for sinners, you should just ask him.

God has an open door policy meaning you can talk to him at any time. If he doesn't give you the answer you want, that might be because we rarely see things the way he does.

Lastly, my question about your question. How does it matter who God has warm fuzzies for?

God says nothing of that being a determinant for anything at any point.

It is my belief that we fight for nothing, we hurt in the name of good, and live completely lost while knowing everything all along.

Worship God. There is nothing else. Come to him. There is nothing he gets more warm and fuzzy about than that. That's my guess at least. I hope I am not wrong.

d w said...

@ Hate

Why do you think we experience so much more about hate than love?

Do you believe God loves you sometimes and hates you others?

If Mohamed believed in Jesus, how come he didn't follow him?

What sin is greater than denying the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit exist in and with God and Jesus. Satan denied the Holy Spirit and was cast from Heaven.

This act of "anger" could only be in anger if there was also love.

When the twin towers came down there was horror in our hearts. The act itself was demonic. But we were also angry because we knew many lives were taken. Had I no love of life, I wouldn't have been angered as much.

God was betrayed by his most beautiful of creations. Surely God knew this would happen and that it must come to pass in order to achieve his design. But still it would seem that he would not have created something only to hate it. That is an interesting thought, but difficult to support.

When my Dog chews my carpet and walls to destruction, I am forced to act. The way I act could be interpreted as angry (I am) but I simultaneously love him. How?

Because my love doesn't go away just because he didn't do as I commanded. Pay checks work that way, God doesn't.

God also doesn't see your life as a struggle to get to heaven. There is not a checklist of things to do to get there. Again, that would be more like a Job, not God.

If you want to understand God, stop thinking you are God. Stop thinking the use of words that mean worship can replace real worship.

Because I worship God, I know I am a sinner. Because I know I am a sinner I submit to the one that loves me despite that. Perfection is a word we use a lot, yes God is perfect, but we have no idea what perfect is. Have you seen it? Describe it to a T now. Can't? Think about why we don't know that. Think about why all we have is an idea that varies from person to person. It is because it is a concept, not a definition.

If you have hate in your heart, it is taking up space that God would like to fill with his love.

Let God worry about who to hate, you worry about loving God and he will do the rest. He is God after all, he doesn't actually need you to do anything.

d w said...

One more thing,

God does not love me because I love him.

I love God because he loves me.

I didn't love him first.

Are you so egotistical that you believe you control God's love?

Are you so egotistical that you believe you control God in anyway?

Read the covenant God has made with us and know the truth of God's love.

d w said...

http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/did-god-really-forsake-jesus-christ-on-the-cross

This link is to a short video that looks at Jesus's last words.

I always wondered why Jesus said that God had forsaken him.

Now that I know, I want you to know what Jesus was telling us.

The short clip removes doubt that Jesus is THE Messiah.

Know your King and Savior, he has infinite titles, but only 1 name.

Jhughes said...

Here is the thing: There is no love in Allah. Allah is a fake god. His laws do not teach people to love people.His laws tech people to kill those that are not in name a Muslim. That self destructive. There is nothing constructive in that command. It was not Gabriel in the cave with Mohammed. It was Allah up to his deceptive tricks forcing Mohammed to recite. Allah looks like this beintg Lucifer. Ezekiel 28:13:Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
2 Corinthians 11:14:And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. That being fools souls departed from the body to end them to his prison.1 Peter 3:19:. 18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing.
Jahanna is the devils prison not heaven at all. Jesus, the physical manifestation of God who had blood in him for a short time.

Jhughes said...


edited;

Here is the thing: There is no love in Allah. Allah is a fake god. His laws do not teach people to love people. His laws teach people to kill those that are not in name a Muslim. That is self destructive. There is nothing constructive in that command. It was not Gabriel in the cave with Mohammed. It was Allah up to his deceptive tricks forcing Mohammed to recite. Allah looks like this being Lucifer. Ezekiel 28:13:Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
2 Corinthians 11:14:And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. That being fools souls departed from the body to end up in the devils prison.1 Peter 3:19:. 18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing.
Jahanna is the devils prison not heaven at all. Jesus is the physical manifestation of God who had blood in him for a short time.

Rachael rego said...

Many of us people cannot imagine the immense love God has for us and sacrifice it took to let His Son die on the cross. He is the creator of the universe and former of the stars. We are so small and insignificant in comparison to His creation, and yet so loved by Him. Jesus lives inside of every believer. 1 John 4:10 says "In this is love, not that we have loved God but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins". Romans 5:8 states "But god shows His love for us that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us".
Tonights talk hinges on the phrase that : Jesus loves you. It might seem really simple, something we heard. But what can be more impressive and that would top out the reality that JESUS LOVES YOU. I don't know, if you love him or not? But I love the fact that Jesus decided what He was going to do, before you decided what you were going to do. Some of you are still thinking about it. Thats okay. He's not! Some of you are still in process. He's not in process. Some of you don't believe he loves you. Some of you haven't received yet that he loves you. Not stopping Him. Some of you cannot imagine comprehend fathom that someone like you a husband, a wife, a son, a mother, a child, a friend, at workplace someone told you that you were "unlovable"and you believed that. And that's defined you and it has cast an identity for you? So when someone says Jesus loves you, you find it hard to believe "My parents dint, my boyfriend dint , my husband dint, my wife dint, my neighbour dint, this person dint they dint, so I know if they dint, He probably doesn't either". I am here to tell you tonight that there is a cross spanning history and eternity and it is an I Love You that is brighter than the sun. You are loved by Jesus Christ tonight. Madly passionately deeply intimately eros-ly pursuing relentless unstoppable determined unending bottomless sure unshakable Love. Every way you can possibly be loved.
Humanity needs to be soaked in the belief, awareness and experience that they are loved by the Son of the living God. Let me tell you about the God who is madly in love with you. You can't always depend on love expect for the love of Jesus Christ because I cannot promise you if you would be loved your whole lifetime. With Jesus, You'll be loved every day your on this planet every hour you exist every moment you breath. His love is unshakable because He is unshakable. He is supreme and sufficient in every single way. All things were created by Him. You are the dream and conception of God. You were a dream in His mind and He decided to create you and love you. You were made for Jesus. Colossians 1:16 "All things were created through Him and for Him". Your lover created everything. He breath out stars. He spoke and the world lit up. Isaiah 40:26 "Lift up your eyes and look to the heavens: Who created all these? He who brings out the starry host one by one and calls forth each of them by name. Because of His great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing". The creator of the universe is here to tell you that He Loves You. We are so small, yet so loved. So tiny, yet so priced.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BjSio8jur2Y
This documentary based on John 3:16 The story of Love, which truly explains the heart of our loving God. So blessed are we to be His children.
You are loved so deeply. God cares for us and longs for us to talk to him. Pray bodly to Him and He never let you go.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mBcqria2wmg

Jhughes said...

Allah loves no one. Allah is a liar. Allah is the one impersonating Gabriel in the cave with Muhammad.

Sojourner said...

Proverbs 25:11 - "A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver."

Somehow, barbed remarks towards the lost does not exactly fit this verse.

David Wood said...

Wow! I'm not sure how you can bear to read the Bible, since Jesus, Paul, Peter, and others made numerous "barbed remarks" against the lost. But perhaps you've edited those out of your Bible.

Dick Gold said...

@Baron Eddie
The hadith you are talking about never mentions Satan. But i'll let Mr.Wood explain it to you since he is an expert on Islam and a seeker of truth. He should have told you that you misunderstood the word kareen as Satan.

wheatington said...

I was buying a new Koran every month because they keep changing it! I'm going to wait a year or two now.

Jhughes said...

Allah loves no one including himself. Allah is not who people think. That being thinks he hides in the dark. It was that being who said recite to Muhammad. It is he who demands worship. It is He that makes Blasphemy be everything but against the Holy spirit. It is He that demands death when a person does b not bow to him. It is He that calls us a blood clot. God who made us would not say such a thing. IT is He that made the universe the way it is. God did not make Gas clouds. God the Father was one with Jesus. Who else could Jesus be?

Satan is not what art depicts. 2 Corinthians 11:14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. This is a more detailed transcription of Satan who was called Lucifer before that being rebelled. Ezekiel 28:13:Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
KJV Cambridge edition 1611 or 1900. Satan wants to stand where he ought not to stand on the earth. Get away from him when that being is seen.

Jhughes said...

The Muslims role model is the fly off the handle with the slightest thing Satan.

Jhughes said...

Allah loves no one including himself. Allah is not who people think. That being thinks he hides in the dark. It was that being who said recite to Muhammad. It is he who demands worship. It is He that makes Blasphemy be everything but against the Holy spirit. It is He that demands death when a person does not bow to him. It is He that calls us a blood clot. God who made us would not say such a thing. IT is He that made the universe the way it is. God did not make Gas clouds. God the Father was one with Jesus. Who else could Jesus be?

Satan is not what art depicts. 2 Corinthians 11:14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. This is a more detailed transcription of Satan who was called Lucifer before that being rebelled. Ezekiel 28:13:Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
KJV Cambridge edition 1611 or 1900. Satan wants to stand where he ought not to stand on the earth. Get away from him when that being is seen.

Karla Nunez said...

I'm just very knew to apologetics, and I've following David, Sam, Nabeel, and have watched YouTube debates until my eyes fall off... I've been relocated to India, and now I'm very good friends with a Muslim couple. They are freaking awesome. I am a Christian, and I've found myself questioning my faith a lot. In trying to reach to them, I've began reading the Quran, and learning as much of my faith and theirs so to know how they behave, and why. Anyway, I found this website helpful for the LOVE/HATE regarding Yahweh: http://www.mercifultruth.com/doesgodhate.html
It's long but worth reading. I do however feel that the prove that Yahweh loves even though He "hates"is that Jesus died on the cross. Allah only loves those who follow Mohammad, and that's what I feel everytime I read the Quran. If you reject the prophet, and if you do not have the faith (Islam) then you go to hell.

I guess I just want to say that even tough these sites are great for debate and discussion, there are real awesome muslims people out there whom we can love with the love that Jesus commanded us to do. It's not their fault they do not understand, but maybe we can help them? :)

Revenant said...

Baron Eddie, as to what you say about " 29 names were taken out recently and replaced by new 30 names! " and " for example the number (60)Al-Muhyi = “The Giver of Life” was taken out "

I think you are gravely mistaken or maybe someone tried to make you a fool by telling you something rather out of muslim contexts, I still see that name and I still speak that name because all the 99 names are still as they were before. Nothing is changed and even the name An-Nur isnt changed, I use that name too and I hear it said by so many other muslims even now. So i'd suggest you to stop making some strange self-made lies and put it on us, If you have proof then slam it here on the comments so that we all can see if you opened a "Against Muslims" web or maybe you were bribed to make some amusing comments.. which by the way if anyone wants to learn how to make lies should learn it from you Baron.

Revenant said...

As for David Wood says " But let me make things even more clear for you.

(1) According to Islam, Jesus was a prophet.
(2) Jesus condemned the sort of love exhibited by Allah.
(3) Therefore, Allah can't be the God preached by Jesus. "

1st point is correct yes Jesus was a Prophet who came before Mohammad 571 years before.

2nd point is laughable, You really think Jesus had any kind of authority to condemn anything he was ordered to do, sure he if ever had doubts he asked straight away like Mosses did and others before him did, but they eventually all learned the wisdom of those actions they were told to do. If God told Jesus to tell people to love him and to accept him and to find all the proof they can to challenge against his existence so that he may tell them where they need help in finding the truth and where did they needed explanations, Allah never said he hates non-muslims, right here above if you read about the whole sentence (and not just the one underlined) you will notice it says, "Those who turn away/back" meaning if you found the truth but still didn't investigated further and left or maybe because you knew Islam was true then you later felt like you don't "want" to be part of it despite it being true, *then* Surely Allah hates the non-believers, and why was the word "non-believer" used? because it points to those who "know" Islam is true but still don't want to join it.
So now you tell me, Would you love any man who will stand against and defy you, insult and be sarcastic about your existence when there is so much you do to help them sustain their life and protect them?

and so therefore your third point is also wrong. If I were you, I'd go investigate more.. unless if i was stubborn then I'd say everything this guy(me) said is wrong and is making a bunch of silly objections because "that" is what a response less man would also do. But you're not a response less man, you should really go search some true webs rather some cheap people who are just trying to frame us muslims. If you were framed in your life, then you would know how it feels like to have to explain 0.1 -100.0 everything exact.

Revenant said...

Answer to what David wood said in response to Samatar.

Allah does extends his love for everyone, it's why He never asked us to curse the rest in hell and set your own lives according to the religion, no He was very clear when he said he loves the human race the most and then the Jinns & Angels, because it is said even when a person is a non-believer he still looks after him/her in hopes that he will come and seek out the truth. Allah only hates those who reject his existence knowingly and those who are unjust and transgressors and proud and wrongdoers he also hates those who don't investigate and just live their lives blindly in the world who only crave to be rich and famous and out do not put much thoughts towards "which is the true religion, why is it true, how can it be true, and satisfied all the questions that are general and common sense."

In regards to what you quoted, if you were actually concentrating of what you quoted maybe you wouldn't have made this mistake. The verse is 96 not 46, and if you read the whole chapter then surely you will understand every meaning of every verse written inside, Picking out verses from one chapter and proving us wrong is something "also described in Qur'an of how you people do it." Now on to the verse,
Verse 60
Except those who repent, believe and do righteousness; for those will enter Paradise and will not be wronged at all.
Verse 63
That is Paradise, which We give as inheritance to those of Our servants who were fearing of Allah .
Verse 68
So by your Lord, We will surely gather them and the devils; then We will bring them to be present around Hell upon their knees.
Verse 69
Then We will surely extract from every sect those of them who were worst against the Most Merciful in insolence.
Verse 70
Then, surely it is We who are most knowing of those most worthy of burning therein.
Verse 72
Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees.
verse 73
And when Our verses are recited to them as clear evidences, those who disbelieve say to those who believe, "Which of [our] two parties is best in position and best in association?"
Verse 76
And Allah increases those who were guided, in guidance, and the enduring good deeds are better to your Lord for reward and better for recourse.
Verse 81
And they have taken besides Allah [false] deities that they would be for them [a source of] honor.
Verse 82
No! Those "gods" will deny their worship of them and will be against them opponents [on the Day of Judgement].
Verse 85
On the Day We will gather the righteous to the Most Merciful as a delegation
Verse 88
And they say, "The Most Merciful has taken [for Himself] a son."
Verse 89
You have done an atrocious thing.
Verse 92
And it is not appropriate for the Most Merciful that He should take a son.
Verse 93
There is no one in the heavens and earth but that he comes to the Most Merciful as a servant. (Jesus)
Verse 94
He has enumerated them and counted them a [full] counting.
Verse 95
And all of them are coming to Him on the Day of Resurrection alone.
Verse 96
Indeed, those who have believed and done righteous deeds - the Most Merciful will appoint for them affection

Tell me you do see a match here, He is pointing it towards those who have wronged in this life and have disbelieved knowingly. And yes if you are suspicious about why I skipped some of the verses from between you are more than welcome to search them up and prove me wrong if you find any proof that stands against what I call "truth" I only skipped them to make it to the point and as short as possible. Allah loves all of his creations because he wants them to love him and seek the truth in life rather be seduced by Satan and be damned to hell for eternity.
And If Allah didn't appoint his love for only the believers then he would long ago asked us to kill all non-muslims in his name but he didn't because he doesn't wants any to fall to Satan's seductions or trickery.

Revenant said...

Baron Eddie, To your second post about Satan topic, You seem to have ran out of words or something because what you said is what I have heard of too, infact I was searching for the same thing which surprised me if every man has a Satan but the word Satan is only used for One Satan(Shytan) who disobeyed Allah, These satans have another word for them which some people who dont have the knowledge or are calling them satans since they whisper only evil inside of you.
The true word for them is "Qareen" not Satan, And Qareens are each for every human, they are appointed to whisper bad things in the ears of men and women and are the agents of Satan, Prophet Muhammad's Qareen was converted to Islam by Allah but not even the companions of Muhammad were saved from the Qareens. And Muhammad never sought help from anything or anyone except Allah unless Allah commands it from indirect means like from Gabriel.

Some people, (only muslims) call Qareen as Satan because their overall qualities and actions are exactly that of Satan so they tend not to give them a new name. Since every muslim only needs to know that he has to be careful from all the bad thoughts that Qareen encourages you.
If those books were made for Non-muslims too then surely they'd 'have' to call them by their proper names since it would raise lots of questions and by that I mean it would sound really strange like the one I'm giving reply to.

Revenant said...

In response to Bob's first post of 2012, 1st November:-
Yes Allah is 100% love but he is also just.
So when you say he doesn't hate the Sinners, then you should know that you are wrong. At the moment I'm 100% sure he hates us more than any other of how much we muslims are doing in the world, how much tensions we grow and families we ruin and countries we burn, and how much conflict we create and he knew this time would come, it was written in our Hadith. That one time will come when muslims will kill each other and hurt others but some will still remain in the world who will help and show kindness and be true muslims.
And Yes every muslim who did wrong in this world even if he did wrong with a Satanist shall be casted in the Hells to pay for his sins, it is said that "if you murder one man then you have murdered the entire human race and if you helped one man then you have helped the entire human race."

And as for what you quoted about John 3:16 I don't think thats true since Islam wasn't the name that time, It was Prophet Abraham's Monotheism that all prophets believed in, including Jesus.
This is what I found when searching for
"John 3:16"

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

which is exactly the same as muslims if you exclude the son from the quote because Allah is one and always have been and will be alone.

Jhughes said...

You are right.I am not a response less man. I know what I am talking about. Islamists will become alive when they die to themselves. They will become whole when they are broken. Allah is not the God preached by Jesus. Jesus and the father God are one. They are the same. Allah is loveless. He is Satan saying recite. Gabriel would not say recite to anyone. That being made Muhammad think he was going to die had he not recite. Jesus obeyed the spirit of God in him perfectly. Jesus did not condemn people. Jesus was into saving people. A human cannot do that. Jesus is the truth. Jesus is the word. Why challenge him in anything? Allah is 100% unreliable. He fools people into thinking he is not against non Muslims being exactly that. What do you think an infidel is? Muslims themselves can be seen as an infidel by another Muslim. It can be anything. The way they pray can be enough to give a death sentence. All Allah has is hate. Apostasy gives Allah an excuse to hate people through people. That is what gives Allah joy. Truth in Islam is only a word. There is nothing to support it. You hear the word truth with deafening silence coming after wards. Sustain: All Allah sees is the physical body. He is blind to the soul in others and his own soul. I I do not need the web. I see a sneaky liar in a cave. Who in the heck wants to trust a sneaky liar in a cave? It is wanting directions to go somewhere with a person saying: I know of a liar that will give you directions. People gather around that being stupidly asking that being for directions. That is Islam.

Jhughes said...

A being who behaves and talks like the devil not behaving or talking like Gabriel will tell the truth? you have to be kidding me. Allah hates all that God made. The first thing Allah attacked were the stars God made. That is why we have asteroids and meteors and comets and black holes and neutron stars and pulsars etc, etc. They are the stars looking like rosy paint. People who did wrong will see God's face as the fires of hell. God's son is not like our sons. God becoming like us allowing blood in him. That is the way it it is. That was for a short time.

Jericho Fallen said...

There is a common misconception amongst some muslims that we are worshipping the same God. This is an absolute lie. In Luke 9:35 and Matth 3:17 my God acknowledges he has a Son. According to the quraan Q 6:101, Q 72:3 and Q 10:68 allah denies that he has a son. I won't elaborate to much on this, there are many more examples. So NO!!!! We do not worship the same God.

If muslims worship the same God as christians, why are you commanded to kill those who leave islam. 'Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him' Hadith- Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57) If muslims worship the same God as christians, why are they commanded not to take us as friends surah 5:51.

Jhughes said...

Allah cannot have a son because of this. No angel can have a son. Satan would say recite. Gabriel would not do that. This is what Muhammad saw.2 Corinthians 11:14: And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. This is what Satan looks like in more detail. Ezekiel 28:13:Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
KJV Cambridge edition 1611 or 1900. Satan wants to stand where he ought not to strand standing on the earth. Get away from him when seen.

Rawia macabalang said...

Allah is not. Satan. I will not argue with you guys, I hope Allah will guide all of you to the right path. InshaAllah! I recommend you to watch videos of sheik mufti menk and dr zakir. And btw if you have questions about the verses from the Quran, make sure to ask the expert so that youll understand the meaning of it. All of you kept on saying that Allah is like this, Allah is like that but in fact you havent even read the whole Quran. You guys dont even know what is Islam, you just define Islam from what you see on your tv screens or news from the internet BUT to tell you honestly, everything that is shown in the media are just lies. We all worship the same God but we muslims don't consider Jesus as a God. Because According to surah al-masad Allah doesnt have a partner and he doesnt have a child. But christians believe that 1+1+1=1 (God+Jesus+holy spirit=1) and we dont because Allah has no partners. He is the only God. But we all get to choose which religion to believe and follow. I respect that :) May Allah protect us and guide us all.

Jhughes said...

God did not bring death or mortality. God did not make the stars to look like they look. God did not make gas clouds and all of the anomalies in the universe. God did not even want to split the moon. God set everything where he wanted them to be all at once. Allah is Satan not telling the truth. look for the word ""SET". Version (KJV) 16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth.

Jericho Fallen said...

@Rawia
Wow you clearly seem to have the same Ahmed Deedat mentality. No dear we pray that OUR God guide you on the right path. You seem to stuck on a mathematical equation to define the christian trinity concept. Let me school you out of your ignorance.. I dare you to proof this concept as flawed. Do you perhaps know what 1x1x1 adds up to?

Let's look at the Trinity concept of us Christians. Muslims so confidently claim that we worship 3 Gods and not One God. These "experts" (sarcasm) in islam uses the addition of 1+1+1 to arrive at three.

The moment the muslim makes the God head physical they completely lose track of all their faculties. Only muslims can add up a Spirit and arrive at three much to the contradiction of their own quran.

Let's examine this.

In John 4:24 .God is a SPIRIT; and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The SPIRIT of God is an infinite entity and cannot be subtracted, added or diminished. It is a common misconception amongst anti-trinitarians that christians worship THREE gods and is thus guilty of polytheism. A lot of them so confidently argue that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit adds up to three gods.

Although the Trinity is explained as God in three "persons" we must bear in mind that all three are in actual fact SPIRIT.

We must not confuse ourselves to the fact that Jesus Christ was a PHYSICAL being on earth. Jesus is the "Word" in the flesh.
According to John 1:1 we can clearly see that the "Word" is a SPIRIT entity. The "Word" in his CAPACITY as Jesus still retained his divinity and infinity.

At this point we can clearly see that the Trinity or God head is a Spirit being. A Spirit can remain ONE in totality when imparted on believers. The SPIRIT remains singular throughout. When a Spirit is in 100 people they do not say we are filled with the spirits(plural), they correctly say the Spirit(singular). The Spirit although in 100 people did not diminish in itself and still remained ONE singular entity.

In view of the aforementioned, why is it so difficult to accept that the Trinity is God the Father, God the Son and of course God the Holy Spirit. The doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three divine "persons" the Father, the Son (Word) and the Holy Spirit. The three "persons" are distinct throughout the bible yet they are of ONE being. The christian God is in fact ONE but not confined to one.

So as christians we do hold to Deutoronomy 6:4 and Mark 12:29, Hear O' Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE. Yes this may come as a surprise to our muslim folks. Our God is ONE but not confined to ONE .

Now let's look at Spirit entity in islam. According to surah 21:91 allah breathed into Mary of his spirit and in surah 32:9 he breathed into mankind of his spirit. Is there now two spirit(s) or more here? The one in Mary, The one in Mankind ( approximately 6 billion people) and the little that allah has left from using it all up. (sarcasm)

Now we ask, did the spirit of allah diminish when he used some of it for mankind, Mary, Adam and others?

The muslim will CLEARLY object to this question and say NO, NEVER.
Well then you share the same concept of a Spirit being as mentioned above. A SPIRIT doesn't diminish at all. Its an infinite being that can impart himself in more than one being and still remain singular (ONE).

In view of this only an absent mind can deduce that christians worship three gods. This is a blatant fallacy.

In Christ, for Christ, by Christ

Jericho Fallen said...


@Rawia.... part two

No dear muslimah. You're sadly misguided to believe that we worship the same God. I suggest you read your own quran and hadith more intensely as you have no concept of islam. In fact for a woman to be a muslimah is an insult to her intellect as islam offers woman nothing but misery. Islam approves beating you into submission, you are cursed if you fail to submit to your husband. Your prophet compare you woman to dogs. I have ALL the scripture to back me up. If you want I can post them for you to see what low thinking your own prophet had of you. In fact he said you muslimahs have half the intelligence of a man.

Anyway here why we do not worship the same God...

There is a common misconception amongst some muslims that we are worshipping the same God. This is an absolute lie. In Luke 9:35 and Matth 3:17 my God acknowledges he has a Son. According to the quran Q 6:101, Q 72:3 and Q 10:68 allah denies that he has a son. I won't elaborate to much on this, there are many more examples. So NO!!!! We do not worship the same God.

If muslims worship the same God as christians, why are you commanded to kill those who leave islam. 'Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him' Hadith- Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57) If muslims worship the same God as christians, why are they commanded not to take us as friends surah 5:51.

In conclusion, allah is a liar and a deceiver and you've clearly fallen for his lies. After the quran claims he is the best of deceivers. Didn't your allah supposedly make it appear as if Jesus was crucified so as to lead billions of christians into believing that. Thank goodness we don't believe islam to be the truth at all. Islam is based on the rantings and ravings of one fallible human being named muhammad. This character has no credibility at all.
I'm just curious what will a muslimah get in allahs paradise?

Secondly you're a hypocrite to believe that we all get to choose which religion to believe and follow.
Your as a muslim is commanded to kill us for our religion. According to the quran you have an open mandate to kill all unbelievers until we ALL submit to islam.


Quran (8:39) - "And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do."

I hope my God guides you out of the darkness of islam into the light of christianity.

Matthew 5:44- But I say unto you,
Love your enemies, bless them that
curse you, do good to them that hate
you, and pray for them which
despitefully use you, and persecute you;

In Christ, for Christ, by Christ

Jhughes said...

Christians are not worshiping three gods. I never hear that from real Christians or false for that matter. Quran followers are the only ones saying that. Allah is death. We see it. The spirit in Allah is not God being the one who made nebula.