Not a comment, rather a question. Beginning at about 2:00, you state that Jesus is referred to as Esau in the Talmud. Could you tell me specifically where it does so? Thanks.
Hi Jonathan. The following is the source for my argument. Taken from the 'Encylopedia of Islam'.I. Etymology of the word ʿĪsā: Certain western writers (Marracci, ii, 39; cf. Landauer and Nöldeke in ZDMG, xlvi, 720) consider that the Jews induced Muḥammad to use the form ʿĪsā and he did so in good faith. In fact the Jews, in hatred, referred to Jesus as Esau () maintaining that the spirit of Esau had passed into him (cf. Lammens, in Machriq , i, 334). Others (cf. J. Derenbourg, in REJ, xviii, 126; Frankel, in WZKM, iv, 334; Vollers, in ZDMG, xlv, 352; Nestle, Dict . of Christ and the Gospels , i, 861) state that Yasūʿ derives, by a phonetic change, from the Syriac Yes̲h̲ūʿ (), itself coming from the Hebrew Yes̲h̲uaʿ, with harmonization with Mūsā. But it should be pointed out that it is used only five times with Mūsā, while it is mentioned 25 times altogether (cf. Parrinder, Jesus in the Qurʾan , London 1965, 16-7; Henninger, Spuren christlicher Glaubenswahrheiten im Koran , Freiburg 1951, 32-3). Finally some modern scholars have seen it as a reference to an ʿĪsā mentioned in the pre-Islamic inscriptions, ytc : a dialectical variant of hysc , a theory which has been strongly rejected by G. Ryckmans who disputes the reading in Analecta Bollandiana , lxvii (1949), 62 and in Les religions arabes préislamiques , 1951, 48. For the Muslim writers, see al-Bayḍāwī on III, 45 (ed. Fleischer, i, 156, l. 2).-Anawati, G.C., “ʿĪsā”, in: Encyclopaedia of Islam, Second Edition, Edited by: P. Bearman, Th. Bianquis, C.E. Bosworth, E. van Donzel, W.P. Heinrichs. Consulted online on 18 September 2018 First published online: 2012First print edition: ISBN: 9789004161214, 1960-2007
It is always quite curious when people, who do not have any expertise in a subject, misguided and consumed by their hatred, read some materials, and without any understanding of the issue, assert ridiculous claims and think by providing a large number of references they are providing a proffer for their assertions.In brief, to understand the etymological root of the word Yessa, or Iessa (Jesus) in Islam we need to see its relationship to the name of Mussa (Moses), which in Hebrew is "Moche" "משה". which we read in Exodus Torah that "וַיִּגְדַּל הַיֶּלֶד, וַתְּבִאֵהוּ לְבַת-פַּרְעֹה, וַיְהִי-לָהּ, לְבֵן; וַתִּקְרָא שְׁמוֹ, מֹשֶׁה, וַתֹּאמֶר, כִּי מִן-הַמַּיִם מְשִׁיתִהוּ" .I am not here concerned about various hypotheses about the meaning of "משה". I am only arguing that if Arab Jews pronounce "משה" or Moche as Mussa it would be quite clear that they would also render the name " ישוע " or Yesua, or Ieshua, as Iessa. Of course, for Greeks pronouncing "ישוע " was also a challenge so they rendered it into Ἰησοῦς, or “Iey-soos” . Of course, in English the letter 'J' was most often substituted for 'I' or 'Y' . For instance; "יהודי" Yehudi is the original Hebrew word that in English has rendered Jewish, where in Arabic, is Yahud. Of course, the word "Isa" is not Arabic, we know that Waraqa a cousin of the wife of the holy prophet was a Christian. So it would be strange that he be using a name for Jesus that was not used by Arab Christians!! Most scholars agree that Hebrew Geez, Aramaic, or Amheric do not provide any information about Jesus name. But we know that Armenians, a very old church, call him "հիսուս" that is Hisus , and Coptic Syrian and Chaldean churches call him "Isa" -- it would be bizarre to argue that they were taken the name from Islam. Spreading falsehood would astray you from the straight path.
Once again Behieh does not engage the scholars that were cited but argues with irrelevance. There were Arab Christians in Saudi Arabia and Muhammad had contact with them. All he had to was inquire from them about Jesus and His name. Arab Christians do not call Jesus 'Isa'. The Jews in Medina with whom Muhammad had considerable contact (in fact it was the Jews that welcomed him into Medina as an escaping 'refugee' from the Meccans, the Jews later regretted this after he slaughtered them) would have been familiar with the derogatory statements about Jesus in the rabbinic literature, one of which was they called Jesus 'Esau", hence the slide into 'Isa'. The Arabic name for Jesus is Yasu'a. Read and learn https://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Abualrub/true-name-isa.htm
It is quite clear that you did not understand the issue I raised. Why do you engage in a discussion when you are unable to recognize something relevant from something irrelevant (for example, every scholar would agree that what you have included in the parenthesis about the welcoming Jews , is not related to this topic. One needs to discuss it historical evidence and facts, which are again irrelevant for this topic which is about the etymology of the name Jesus. However, you use this sophistry, as a smoke screen to hide your lack of knowledge and your embarrassing errors.)1. You are resorting to Pauline antisemitism -- accusing Jews of misleading the holy prophet (glory be to his most sacred name) by using "the derogatory statements about Jesus in the rabbinic literature" . It would be interesting to see how, with your tail between your legs, will you spin this statement to argue that you are not a Pauline anti-semite. Perhaps, you will respond, again, by saying something to the effect that; "this would be my last response to you because you are not here to accept my views!" :) Or "Paul did not have anything against the Jews and the Torah and he did not cause a radical break with the Jewish tradition, as understood say by Matthew" Despite the fact that we KNOW Matthew saw no opposition between Judaism and Christianity, and no contrast between Law and gospel! 2. To understand how stupid is your argument in the video we just have to look at how various nations pronounce the name Jesus. It is interesting that the Aramaic name "Eashoa" became "հիսուս" that is Hisus in Armenia. The Ostrogoths descendants of the German tribes, the Teutones and the Cimbri, who settled in the territories east of the Rhine and north of the Danube and Black Sea around AD 370-430 pronounced "Jesus" Eiehzus (Danes used a very close pronunciation Yehsous) . For Huns in Hungary, "Jézus" is pronounced as Izush, in Dutch "Jezus", is pronounced Yaizis, in Finnish "Jeesus" is pronounced yeyezhosh. However, it is in Russia that the pronunciation gets closer to the Armenian version, Иисус, pronounced Isous, which when we remove the Roman/Latin nominative ending "us" we will see how close they become to the Arabic rendering Isa. We can use the Latin rendering Iesus, and remove 'us' to find the root Ies, very close to Iesa of Arabs. If we remove the nominative "ous" from Greek Ιησους, we again arrive at the Arabic Iesa. The question of "Y" in Hebrew being converted to "J" in the Roman world (e.g., Yehudim =Jews, Yehovah=Jehovah, Ya'qov=Jacob, Yosef=Joseph) is well understood. Thus, in French, it is Jésus, and pronounced, Zhezu, in Italian, it is Gesù and pronounced Jezu, in Spanish it is Jesús and pronounced Shesous. In Hindi the name is जीजास Jījāsa very close to Isa, if we convert J to I. 3. The claim that Arabs could not pronounce "sh" is utter rubbish. For example, look at the word الشمس pronounce Ashamss, meaning the sun, or اشرف Ashref meaning born into the highest social class, and many more.The problem is that to pretend you are a scholar, and understand etymology, you take an error-ridden article from internet by Jochen Katz. That won't do , and is a shame. I suggest to you to open your mind and like many Christian clergymen enter into the straight Path. This is a massage from the most forgiving God. The creator of Universe. The One and only God.
Behieh, you are a master of 'argumentum ad hominem'. The fact that your emotions are getting the best of you is an indication of the feeble character of your argumentation. I was particularly struck by your act of shirk when you said concerning Muhammad,"(glory be to his most sacred name)". You have just confirmed what many Christian apologists have always known, you associate Muhammad with Allah."[All] praise is [due] to Allah, Lord of the worlds" (Quran 1:2).
So you never admit your errors! This is an absolute disgrace. Instead of focusing on the issues, i.e., the etymological origin of the name "Jesus", or your antisemitic rants. you try to create a smoke screen, (I am beginning to understand what's Verbal Diarrhea!! :o)Surely, you are aware that the holy prophet (glory be to his most sacred name) was the last prophet of The Creator of Universe. He was the 'Seal of the Prophets' of the Most Forgiving and The Most Merciful God, The One and Only God, the Eternal God. Thus, of course I associate him with God. But he is NOT God. The holy prophet is an ally of God. Every one of us come from God and to him we return. He and we will be united with God, like rain drops that will unite with ocean. But he was NOT God. Note that associate is originated from Latin associatus, which its past participle is associare, meaning "join with." Also note that associāre = to ally with, from sociāre = to join, derived from socius = an ally, a companion. כחהֲל֨וֹא יָדַ֜עְתָּ אִם־לֹ֣א שָׁמַ֗עְתָּ אֱלֹהֵ֨י עוֹלָ֚ם | יְהֹוָה֙ בּוֹרֵא֙ קְצ֣וֹת הָאָ֔רֶץ לֹ֥א יִיעַ֖ף וְלֹ֣א יִיגָ֑ע אֵ֥ין חֵ֖קֶר לִתְבֽוּנָתֽוֹ That is: καὶ νῦν οὐκ ἔγνως εἰ μὴ ἤκουσας θεὸς αἰώνιος ὁ θεὸς ὁ κατασκευάσας τὰ ἄκρα τῆς γῆς οὐ πεινάσει οὐδὲ κοπιάσει οὐδὲ ἔστιν ἐξεύρεσις τῆς φρονήσεως αὐτοῦ !!
I will quote you again, "Thus, of course I associate him with God. But he is NOT God". What "associate" means in other languages is irrelevant and is an example of the fallacy of equivocation. I will let our Muslim readers judge your comments and ascertain whether or not this is shirk.On another note I don't accept Muhammad as the seal of the prophets (which ahadith identify as a bodily mark on Muhammad's body)or the last prophet from God. I believe he was one of many false prophets Jesus prophesied would come to deceive many.
لَقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُوٓا إِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ ۖ وَقَالَ الْمَسِيحُ يٰبَنِىٓ إِسْرٰٓءِيلَ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ رَبِّى وَرَبَّكُمْ ۖ إِنَّهُۥ مَنْ يُشْرِكْ بِاللَّهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ الْجَنَّةَ وَمَأْوٰىهُ النَّارُ ۖ وَمَا لِلظّٰلِمِينَ مِنْ أَنْصَارٍ"They have certainly disbelieved who say, Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary while the Messiah has said, O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Indeed, he who *associates others* with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers."(QS. Al-Maaida 5: Verse 72)
Amen Tony, I admire your humbleness despite the arrogance towards you! :) Issa is just a fabrication by Muhammad, he never existed!
I congratulate you for resorting to our holy book in order to back up your claim. This is indeed a miracle, a sure sign. Thus, "worship God, my Lord and your Lord. Indeed, he who *associates partners* with God - God has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers." Stop calling Jesus and the holy spirit "god", or in Nabeel Qureshi's word Elohim!! At the very least, you are insulting women by excluding them from your Exclusive Pantheon of Three Male gods. You are also excluding other races, blacks, Asians, and Amerindians as well as Europeans (Perhaps Nietzsche had a point in this regard!) ;7)Notwithstanding, the question of if I associate a partner with my God, the Eternal God of the Universe, (The One and Only Gad, The Most Forgiving, The Most Merciful, The Most Loving, The Most Just,) is between me and my God. He is the only one that is well aware that I consider the prophet (may glorious be his sacred name on Heavens and on Earth, where all Angels praise his most holy name, with love and affection) is God's messenger and he is NOT his partner. He is not God. I bear witness that there is no God but God, and Muhammad is his messenger" !. He is a messenger whose name touches your heart and every other human beings! As it is at the core of your heart that you are attesting to this fact right at this very moment, since you are born a Muslim. Even though that the Whisperer, Lucifer, tries to convince you of otherwise. Finally, may be it is time that you would accept the errors in your video. Tell everybody why Greek call Jesus, "Ιησους", which when you remove the nominative "ους" at the end it becomes "Ιησ" virtually the same as the Arabic name "Iesa", and exactly the same happens when you remove the Roman/Latin nominative ending "us" from all the European versions of the name. Admit that the "Sh" sound exists in Arabic. Believe in what the bible say:כזיִרְאַ֣ת יְ֖הוָה תּוֹסִ֣יף יָמִ֑ים וּשְׁנ֖וֹת רְשָׁעִ֣ים תִּקְצֹֽרְנָה:The proof is Nabeel Qureshi who died at the tender age of 34 with such a horrible cancer, is this not the validation of the sign in the bible?? Look at David Wood's two innocent sons, who are paying for transgressions of their neo-Nazi dad and if you still think that is normal wait and see the new divine signs. Τα χείλη του δικαίου τρέφουν πολλούς, αλλά οι ανόητοι πεθαίνουν από έλλειψη σύνεσης.
Behieh Ruhi - out of the thousands of Greek manuscripts, can you show us ONE that omits the ending of Jesus' name as you do?
The Griek name of Jesus pbuh is Iesous pbuh and the way it is pronounced is Iesou. The pronunciation is identical to Isa pbuh.
Tony Costa you are a liar and a deceiver just like the false deciple paul. never did the jews welcome the prophet to Madina the people of Madina that were pagans but accepted islam they wolcomed the prophet. And you are completely refuted by the muslim brother thats why you don't respond to his arguments. You are very pathetic.
Amed. Instead of committing logical fallacies in your reasoning by using ad hominem attacks, try bringing forth evidence.Christian Arabs who predate Muhammad by centuries called Jesus by His proper name 'Yasua' not 'Isa'.The names Isa was invented by Islam. Do some research https://youtu.be/-_Zn9EQbAGg
The pronunciation of the name “Iesous (nominative case)/Iesou(dative, genitive, vocative cases)” is actually closer to the name “Yasu”. Where are you getting your proof for it having similarities to the other name?
I know that the Hindi reference to Jesus being called “Jijsa” is nonsense. Jesus is refered to as Yeshu in that part of the world. Unless you are a Muslim. It’s nothing close to “Isa”. I hope your other language references are better researched.
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