Friday, October 2, 2015

Debate: "Is Jesus the Son of God?" (David Wood vs. Shabir Ally)

Is Jesus the Son of God? Christians and Muslims give very different answers to this question. Can an examination of the evidence show who's right? In this debate, David Wood and Shabir Ally give their reasons for affirming and denying the claim "Jesus is the Son of God."

11 comments:

wilson blaise said...

I have a tremendous love for David because I believe that God has used him along others such as Sam and so on. However, I do believe he could do better in this debate if he had paid more attention to Ally argument. 1) For example Ally admits that in judaism God is considered the father of the prophets and the kings . If this statement is true and i believe it is so then the god of islam is not the same God of judaism because in sura 5:17-18 allah makes a mockery of the jews for claiming just that.(David missed that opportunity to press shabir on that).
2) Shabir said that is only in the book of John that Jesus is called the Word of God . Again, I think that David missed that opportunity to press Shabir on that . If John is wrong why 600 years later Muhammad confirms that message in Sura 4:171 and there are famous hadiths from Muhammad stating the Jesus is the Word of God. So if John is wrong so is allah then according to Shabir Christians and muslims need to look for another God.
3) Shabir said that we need to go to the Quran to find what is revealed by God in the bible but not so according to the Quran. The Quran tells us to go to the bible to validate the claim of the quran : sura 18:27, 6:115 , sura 21:7.
4) Shabir said David does not understand how in arabic people use the word "Mother" so do allah and muhammad . They don't understand how jews and christians use the term "son of God " in the Bible.,
Overall good job brother David

Mikel Greaves said...

David, you did an excellent job with this debate.

Mari Kaimo said...

Great job, as usual, David! God bless you for your restraint in staying on topic while Shabir went gallivanting off everywhere else. When you were debating Paul, he was debating the reliability of the New Testament. When you were debating Jesus being the Son of God, Shabir was debating the reliability of the New Testament. I wonder what he will do if the topic is ever on the reliability of the New Testament :)

Kidding aside... Methinks that next time you need to have a moderator, someone familiar with debating Muslims such as Bro Tony, to call Shabir or any other Muslim out when they stray from the agreed topic

Tolis Galantis said...

If God does substitute revelations with something better or similar (Quran 2:106), why not accept the more divine view of Jesus in John's Gospel, which was the latest Gospel, over the more human view of Jesus in the earlier Gospels?

Keith said...

Haha Tolis...hell yea. Never thought of it that way before!

Rain Drops said...

Well done David Wood, You are blessed by God. Your information are very important. You will be always in my prayers. Anyone knows that, Quran is fake and edited copy of Bible. The authors of Quran, stolen persons, events, and contents from Bible. They even stolen the many concepts such as heaven. Jesus is the only person, revealed about heaven after life. That muslims copied.

taomeano said...

David

Once again you were phenomenal in the debates with Shabir. Dr Shabir Ally is always resorting to scholars whose opinions though, they may be important, are not factual. They are just opinions and assertions, yet that is what Shabir relies on, instead of dealing with the content of what is being debated. Resorting to scholars as the main thrust of once arguments is not very smart in my view, because these scholars may have a bias or an agenda and their opinions are just assertions with no basis in fact. For instance dealing with certain passages in the quran that allah says are clear, yet Shabir runs to scholars to find what the meaning of the passages are, and in fact as you stated in one of the debates, the way Shabir reads the quran will have him killed by the true practitioners of Islam.

You were too much for Shabir. I also noticed that Shabir resorted to subtle personal attacks that were very uncharacteristic of him and that was an indication that he was in trouble and could not defend his positions. Well done bro. The LORD is definitely using you to shed light to muslims. God bless you and may the Lord bring Shabir out of the darkness of Islam into the light of JESUS CHRIST.

Roel Agustin said...

I have watched this debate and it seems that Shabir Ally confused himself as well as he did not even understand the reality of the texts concerning Jesus as the Son of the living God. In David's part, job well done. It seems that he defended his position concerning to the Messiah as the Son of God and David explained very well with evidence. I pray that Shabir will see the light of the true Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, and to Mr. Wood, job well done and God bless. Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

From: Roel of Tarlac, Philippines

Luther-Carlo Suvu said...

The title 'Son of God' in term of God The Son in my opinion is closely related with Christology which is about the Incarnated Man of the Second Person of the Godhead.

I believe that's why this title primarily describe in NT , while in OT the Second Person of Godhead was identified as 'The Word of God', so in other words Son of God in NT is The Person of The Word of God in OT made flesh.

Targums (one of the official sacred book in Judaism)recognize and even somehow in some cases seemingly DIFFERENTIATE between -the PERSON of GOD- and -the PERSON of The Word of God.

So the belief in The Second Person of Godhead has actually been in Judaism since the beginning.

The Second Person of Godhead has always been since the beginning bearing the title The Word of God as also being described in Book of Revelation.

So since 'genuine' Judaism and Christianity belief in The Word of God as the Second Person of Godhead I think the burden solely lays upon Islam to proof how can be it claims to be related and even BASED its foundation upon the former when apparently Islam is totally deviated from the true teaching of Judeo-Christianity ?

However Jesus in Quran is also described as The Word of God without any clear explanation why,since Muslim often claim the meaning is different from christian understanding where Jesus was created from Allah's word and not Jesus as The Word of God itself HOWEVER Earth, DIRT, fire ,water, time ,space and etc was also firstly created by the word of Allah so strangely on that sense LOGICALLY all of those things and especially DIRT (i like to give DIRT the stronger emphasis to show how pathetic Moslem's argument is) SHOULD ALSO BE GIVEN THE SAME TITLE AS ISA The Prophet!! L.O.L

HisBullAssh HamAndAss said...

At 11:40-11: Shabbir argued that Son of God terminology was used by ancient Judaism to identify kings,prophets and nation of Israel

Based on that admission consequently means Shabbir's 'historical evaluation' acknowledges the use of this terminology by The Ancient/Genuine Judaism whom in Islamic perspective supposedly also to be Moslem.

Bro.David should've pressed Shabir on this claim by asking whether what Shabbir really meant was the supposedly Genuine OT had this terminology been written within it and then taught. Coz surely Islam absolutely rejects any notion for identifying any holy man as Son of God even if it's just metaphorical.


and at 51:57-52:03, Shabbir said IT'S FINE w/MUSLIMS in tolerating the Jews for metaphorically define someone as Son of God though muslims wouldn't say it that way.

Here it seems Shabbir gives the impression as if Islam would tolerate the way of the Jews in identifying someone as Son of God as long as it was meant metaphorically, yet in ambiguous way also giving notion that Islam would never use this terminology.

Bro.David should've pressed Shabbir to clarify what Shabbir clearly meant and on what Islamic authoritative ground that such a group who define themselves as Children of Allah/God would've been excusable from being condemned as Kaffir or heretic.

By the way this part of an article on the rulings for using Son of God terminology in Islam taken from http://islamqa.info/en/26728

=======
Any Muslim who says, “We believe that we are all the children of Allaah” should be asked to explain what he means before any judgement is made concerning him.

1.1 – If what he means by being children is the metaphorical meaning, which is that people are dependent upon Allaah, and he is using this word for a purpose allowed in sharee’ah, such as REFUTING THE CHRISTIANS who say that the Messiah is the son of God, then there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT IF HE USES IT "ONLY" WITH CHRISTIANS IN ORDER TO SHOW THEIR BELIEF IS FALSE, BUT HE SHOULD NOT USE IT WITH OTHERS lest that generate confusion and misunderstanding. That is because one of the means of showing the Christians’ beliefs concerning ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) to be false is to use the same expressions as are mentioned in their holy Book (the Bible) to prove that others were described as “sons of God” as well as ‘Eesa, which clearly indicates that what is meant by being a son of God in the texts of the Gospels is not “sonship” in the literal sense, which St. Paul claimed for Jesus in order to lead them astray from belief in Divine Oneness (Tawheed)
====
The rest of the other points in that article strictly forbid the use of the terminology which leave us with the point number one which is being presented above where the conclusion is:

The Using of Son of God terminology is permitted in Islam when debating Christians though it's certainly an abomination to use it however Muslims are allowed TO PRETEND as if it was ok IN ORDER TO DECEIVE the Christians. To make it simple this means IT'S OK TO LIE & BE DECEITFUL IN ISLAM

zayamghani said...

The point is, that Bible is not Jesus true words, it's corrupted over time, It misled Christian around the world. think why we have too many religions in the world. which one is the true religion. God didn't chose all these religions(message) for our guidance. which one is it, Hindus have many Gods Idols, Buddhism worshiping Idols big Bud-ah, Judaism they even say that Ezra is God son or Christianity worshiping three Gods,or Islam believing in one God, which one makes sense or logical ,
And what is the purpose of life, why God created us in the first step. Christianity a religion without justice, what a ridicule, that you will not be judge for your action, even if you kill Innocent, what a non sense. it doesn't make sense.

what part of Jesus was God, the brain, soul or body.
Why Christians believe in the Father, son, holy spirit, not mother Mary, isn't she God mother, that means there is not respect in Christianity for God mother.

the Bible say' Roman 8;14 Says for those who are led by the spirit of God, are the children of God. even Bible contradicts your belief. that means we all God children.that means Adam was god first son.

We say the same thing, that you Christian twisted the Bible too.That Jesus never said I'm God or his son, he is the son of Mary. even Bible says referring about Jesus, that he is the son of man.God is not human, how do you know, that God looks like man? even Jesus never seen God.

you should know God characteristics, that God is one, God is the creator not creation. God does not need worldly need but Jesus did, water food oxygen, sleep, using bathroom and so on. God is the sustainer of the world, God can forgive if he wants, without sacrificing any one. Christianity is a religion without a purpose and judgement. it eliminate the purpose of God, that God said to angels I created humans to worship and believe in me that I'm one. and to associate no one with me

read Quran I"m sure you will find the truth