Saturday, October 10, 2015

Debate: Is the Bible a Book of Peace? (David Wood vs. Shabir Ally)

Is the Bible a book of peace? Christians point to Jesus' commands to "Love your neighbor as yourself" and "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you" to prove that Christianity is a religion of peace. However, the Bible also contains reports of Joshua invading the land of Canaan, Saul fighting the Amalekites, etc. So what's the Biblical position on peace and violence? In this debate, David Wood and Shabir Ally examine the texts to get to the truth.

13 comments:

Auke Feitsma said...

Good job David but Shabir was also very good. He kept his point (genocide) and sticked with it. That he fears you David was very obvious. He tried to destabilize you by using youre words literally, except you meant it sarcastically.(video: is the quaran a book of peace). Shabir knows youre right about mo, but he will never say that. He will use half truths to undermine youre authority. He is a very good debater, he studied you very well and knows youre flaw, youre sarcasm. And you are right David that the Bible is a book of peace, but we are also commanded to fight evil as christians and we are also commanded to look after our brothers and sisters who are percecuted. Look at Mattheus 25 vers 31 to 46.

Sorry for my bad english.

Tom said...

Hi there David,

Great work.

I have been challenging this clown aqil, on line for months now.. I have brought this character to your attention previously under abu......, as you know he is irrational, loud and does alot "spin work"...

He just made a claim:
"....SHAMOUN HAS REFUSED TO ACCEPT MY BASIC TERMS TO DEBATE."

Could you kindly bring this to Sam's attention and curious what is aqil's so called "terms"
if you are aware of them?

Shalom.

David Wood said...

Aqil is a mental case and a stalker. I'm not giving him any attention. I wouldn't be surprised to find him hiding in the bushes watching me some day.

Steve Penich said...

Off-Topic (sort of):

1. Are ishaq and tabari basically the same thing? Does tabari provide any information that isnt in ishaq?

2. I'm confused by quran 9:4. It says that the pagans who kept the treaty were allowed to live, while those who broke the treaty must convert or die. This presents a dilemma:

- A peaceful islam wouldn't make the treaty breakers convert or die.
- A violent islam wouldnt let the treaty-keepers continue to live as kuffars

What does this verse actually mean?

King Harkinian II said...

Hey Dr. Wood, I'm a little confused about your last tweet (I don't have a Twitter so I can't respond to this directly). What is Usama Dakdok's stance on Islam that would necessitate a debate on the question, "Was Muhammad a True Prophet?"? I thought he was also a critic of Islam.

David Wood said...

KHII,

No one said it was a debate.

ignatius said...

Well done, David!

I was surprised that Shabir tried smearing you by quoting a sarcastic remark. I didn't think he was doing so badly, but this was truly a tactic of desperation, and one which undermined his own credibility.

I have one question. Lately I've read a little about the Greco-Roman practice of infanticide. Could you tell me the source for your statement that Christians were rescuing and raising babies in the 2nd and 3rd centuries. I've strongly suspected this was happening, but I never found a source to substantiate it.

Thanks and God bless you.

King Harkinian II said...

Oops. Ha ha. I'm so used to browsing for debates involving you guys that anything that isn't Jesus or Muhammad? and asks a question for a prompt is a debate to me XD

Benny Nelson said...

God bless you David

Dennis Abraham said...

I believe the purpose of apologetics should be to win souls and to teach our fellow believers the effective means for sharing the Gospel to people from different cultural and religious backgrounds. By God's grace, you're doing that job brilliantly Brother. Just love the service you re doing in the body of Christ. But sadly, atleast few of us cross the fine boundary between beating up a person of a different faith with words and challenging a person's belief to earn his soul-(out of love for him, so that he too can know the true freedom in our blessed LORD JESUS). I praise God that you remained composed even when you were personally attacked during the debates. Praying for your ministry. I just wanted to share this thought with all who come to this blog due to their interest in apologetics
Thanks and God bless

Ruzzle Harvey said...

God is giving david wood wisdom and knowledge to direct people to go on the right path...God bless you david

Luther-Carlo Suvu said...

Muslim Dawagandists usually like to accuse Christians as unpeaceful using OT and certain part or Book of Revelation.

Firstly, OT is describing about historical stories with their both peace and 'violent' part of a country in certain region and in CERTAIN ERA(which is thousand years ago). Even the taking of the land by Israelites was limited by God which only applied to certain region with borders etc. It's totally different with Moslem where they are ordered by Allah to SUBDUE & CONQUER ALL THE WORLD with no limitation by time or region.

Second, The strict rules of Judaism such as genuine stoning( such as in Moses time and not as in Jesus time which the implementation solely hypocritical) and even order for annihilation of Edomite and Moabite were applied under a full PHYSICAL manifestation of Holiness of God in the midst of people through Shekinah. When God fully manifest Himself (His Holiness especially) in such an OBVIOUS PHYSICAL way, then to disregard HIS DIRECT COMMAND would surely bring severe consequences toward the people of Israel. This is totally different with Moslem , actually MOSLEM HAS NEVER EXPERIENCE THE PHYSICAL MANIFEST OF HOLINESS OF GOD, more of all MOSLEM ACTUALLY HAS NO CONCEPT OF HOLINESS OF GOD! They only know about 'man trying to be holy' but has never experience the holiness of God. One of the clear example is The Islamic concept of heaven which supposed to be a HOLY PLACE yet for Islam this is place where men will have SEX-ORGY Party endlessly, this is surely a blasphemy toward True Living Holy God of Israel.

Third, Shabbir likes to play around on NT Book of Revelation to describe that Jesus is a violent MAN and along with His followers will bring violent in end times. However Shabbir is cunningly ignoring the fact that Jesus will also come as GOD who will JUDGE the world!

Even in Islam in Judgement Day , Allah will be harsh toward sinners. It's so cunning & deceptive in Shabbir part for somehow demands God of Christianity to be just a SUGAR-CANDY GOD who ignores sin and rebellion of men. And speaking of violent if we read carefully throughout Book of Revelation it is GOD ALONE who will doing it, and for Lord Jesus especially He will judge the people and bring punishment through fire which will come out His mouth. So there will be no need for JIHADIS ARMY-christian style or even Christian style of SHARIAH Police because it will be Lord Jesus alone to be the Judge and Executor!

For both Moslem & Christian the Judgment Day is day of reckoning where there will be no chance to repent , how deceitful Shabbir for objecting the peaceful nature of Christianity by referring to what would God the Son do in Judgment Day.

Fourth, Shabbir also deceitfully likes to play around this false idea of Jesus as a militant leader when He was in earth 2000 yrs ago, but Isa somehow presumably failed in His attempt to throw down Roman occupation. I think Shabbir is far too smart in not noticing the core teaching of Jesus of "Loving your Enemies". So based on that I can safely conclude that Shabbir is totally dishonest and deceptive in his approach and (if I'm not mistaken) even Islamic teaching about Isa the prophet has never came out with that 'weird idea'

Dennis Abraham said...

In the Beginning, when God created humans, they were in perfect communion with him. When they fell(or rather claimed to posses the ability to say that they can determine what is right and wrong, all by themselves), their descend was was pretty bad, as each man defined evil according to his aspirations and ambitions.

So we read in the Genesis about Lamech who acquired wives as a possession and extracted vengeance in a very bitter way-killing the people who wronged him. "Lamech said to his wives, "Adah and Zillah, listen to me; wives of Lamech, hear my words. I have killed a man for wounding me, a young man for injuring me".Genesis 4:23

God wanted his children back. He wanted to restore human beings to his image and likeness. So he told them whose culture became one that of selfishness and violence, "life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot."Deuteronomy 19:21. Well, extract revenge, but be just:you are supposed to take only what lost, not life for an injury or wound.

When this became engraved in the culture, God said: I created him, I created you. So leave the part of giving you justice to me.In 2 Chronicles 24:22, we read, Zechariah son of Jehoiada "...... said as he lay dying, "May the LORD see this and call you to account." Well this was the maximum a human being could do on his own.

When this became engraved in the culture of Israel:"But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son" Galatians 4:4, who taught us: "But I tell you,love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,"
God said: You and him were created by Me, neither are you blameless, so forgive him who has wronged you since he is your brother as I am your Creator and Father. "But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins".Matthew 6:15
He himself died forgiving his murderers, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." Luke 23:34

Jesus also promised to sent his spirit to us the spirit of truth who would make his abode within us and strengthen us to follow him. So Stephen the first martyr to died saying "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." Acts 7:60, just like his God and Saviour. "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect". Matthew 5:48

This is what God wanted to say from the beginning, but he had to wait for centuries, so that his hard hearted sons on earth would understand what he had to say and not dismiss it as stupid cliché.

Does this by any means mean "abrogation", no, not at all. Because God never replaced one command with an entirely different one, rather he was explaining his mercy through ages and all of them were directed to the summation of his revelation which was through his Son our Lord.

Thanks for your patience, Love and be blessed.

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect". Matthew 5:48