Wednesday, September 10, 2014

Discussion with a Muslim on Quran 4:24 (Sex with Female Captives)

I've noticed a pattern among many Muslims on YouTube (and, of course, Facebook, Twitter, etc.). The pattern goes something like this:

(1) I say that the Qur'an teaches something (I usually quote a Qur'an verse to prove it).
(2) A Muslim accuses me of lying and declares that the verse means something completely different.
(3) I quote Muhammad to show that Muhammad agrees with my interpretation.
(4) The Muslim goes berserk and starts hurling insults.

Here's a ***GRAPHIC*** example:

76 comments:

Radical Moderate said...

WOW and he prays to allah with that mouth. Amazing how they turn from Pious Muslim to the mouth of a drunken trucker at the drop of a hat.

I wonder what he thinks of this pious Muslima

Sex Slaves

Wraith said...

Wow. Shades of The Exorcist...I'm convinced he was probably barfing pea soup all over his keyboard.

Satan's followers really are driven mad by the Truth, aren't they?

Fallon Behrens said...

Why do you always have to use "LOL!" when you disprove a Muslim? That isn't very respectful, nor do I imagine that is how Jesus would have treated them. You incite their anger, and you only select those comments which cast Islam and Muslims in a horribly negative light.
You are no apologist; a true follower of Christ would display a greater level of compassion, respect and love. Stop inciting hate, and remember the phrase: What Would Jesus Do?

If you want to rationally disprove a Muslim, you are more than welcome to disprove me or any of my comments on your YouTube videos, but I ask that you stop deliberately selecting the worst light to place Muslims in. Follow your gospel, follow Jesus, and remember why you follow Jesus.

I want to end the ignorance regarding Islam, and the animosity which exists against true believers in the same God.

People like this should not be defending Islam. The Qur'an even says we should not engage in such debates, nor allow ourselves to be incited to anger by it. Please, think about my words and remember Jesus.

King Arthur said...

one muslim i showed qur'an allowed rape actually admitted it but then justified islam by saying later muslim s disallowed it.
apparently nothing can disqualify muhammad ; even the most hideous crime ?

Mike said...

Fallon Behrens said -I want to end the ignorance regarding Islam, and the animosity which exists against true believers in the same God.- Actually they are not the same God. The God of Abraham, isaac and Jacob is Holy and righteous the god that mohammed created is total opposite of both of these attributes. hopefully I have addressed YOUR ignorance Fallon Behrens.

bob morane said...

bah, this was an easy one david, this muzz didn't use taqqya. he's a dumb-one

Fallon Behrens said...

Mike- Muhammad did not create a new God. His God was the God of his ancestor, Ishmael, who worshiped the God of his father- Abraham. Allah is Holy, Righteous, Just, Compassionate, Merciful, Gracious the Most High and Exalted Creator.
How is this different?

Now, my personal opinion so no hate please: God has sent all nations and peoples prophets to learn about him and how to properly worship him. All nations have, at some point, heard the message and been given a chance to be saved. Three of these messages are the most common: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Judaism and Islam worship the same God. (Whom Arab Christians call Allah.) Christianity only differs in that it can never be truly monotheistic while they believe in the Trinity. God is the God of us all, and if we both believe in One God, an Almighty Creator, who was and is and is to come. Eternal. The God who will judge us for our deeds in a coming day... how is this different?

Sufficient is God as a witness to the truth, and one day we will all be informed as to that in which we differ.

"Ye People of the Book! Why dispute ye about Abraham, when the Law and the Gospel Were not revealed Till after him? Have ye no understanding?" 3:65

"There is no god but He: That is the witness of Allah, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise." 3:18

TAREK said...

Hello Dr. David!
To Fallon Behrens
Please before you ask a question to somebody in the future make sure you ask yourself the same question. Why does he use "LOL". Did youask you coreligionist why does he have to insult at the end of his refutation? BTW our HOLY GOD is clearly different from your god
my GOD does not accept lies in any form or shape, or no matter what may be the situation ( to help or hinder the progress of Christianity) my GOD say NO to lies now let us look at your god
Allah does not have any problem with lies when it helps progress islam; quotation: Q 3 Verse 28. Please correct me if I am wrong
I would say this man is insultingbecause he cannot answer so the best way is to insult in order to find his way out of the situation. He will think and I am sure may adopt Q 3 verse 55.
Muslims cannot defend ISIStheycan onlyinsult to hide their weakness. For sure the cat is out of the bag. I just wish a brave muslim can come forward for a debate with Dr. David.
Thank you and to your team and family as well Dr. David
MAY YAHWEH BLESS you all IN JESUS' NAME AMEN

Nojmul Huda said...

@Fallon Behrens, you being a Muslim advice David to follow Christ to show respect to Muslim even though your holy book Quran portrait woman a lower human being and permitted raping of captive women as holistic to eye of Allah. Wonderful advice no doubt because our Lord Jesus Christ commanded his followers to love their enemy. But irony is that you do not follow Jesus, but follow Muhammad who commanded his followers to kill non-Muslims and take tax for their security as ISIS does. What a contradiction!

Muslims are irrational. They defend Quran no matter how evil thing it teaches. Muslims defend Quran because every Muslims took oath by touching fire, air, water etc. that Quran is truth and Muhammad is prophet. There is no way of refusing truthfulness of Quran, once you are a Muslim. Penalty for denying Quran is death. Muslims are afraid of being killed for denying Quran. But Jesus commanded his followers to know the truth to free from Evil’s claw. David is exposing truth about Quran and Muhamad by citing verse from Quran for his support. If he is wrong show us with proof.

As you advised David to follow Gospel, follow Jesus, you should also follow Gospel, follow Jesus. Then world would be better place to live. You should also know that Almighty God, the Father of Jesus Christ, God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob is not same of Allah of Muhamad. One simple reason is that Christian God love mankind, Jesus prayed to His Father while at cross for people who crucified Him, but on contrary Muhamad ordered to kill non-Muslims after War if they don’t convert to Islam. This is the difference between Gospel Jesus brought from Heaven and gospel spread by Muhammad by fighting and later died by poisoning. Choice is yours who to believe.

Mighty Joe Young said...

Fallon. What are you doing trying to befriend Mr. Wood?

The putative words of Allah as recorded in the Koran forbids you to do that.

Maybe you can get a Koran for cheap at a fire sale

jimothy b said...

Agua Marine,

“ISID, Bin Laden and all other radicals are Wahhibis that claim they are Muslims and they misinterpret Koran as they wish to justify their deeds.”

They are just using the Koran as designed by Muhammad. Remember, his plan was to conquer the world.

Fallon Behrens,

Obviously lol is in response to an intentional but weak deception.

F.B. you said:

“You are no apologist; a true follower of Christ would display a greater level of compassion, respect and love. Stop inciting hate, and remember the phrase: What Would Jesus Do?”

Jesus would call out false prophets like Muhammad and publicly expose the peddlers of false doctrines, (since they lead us away from salvation) as He did in Matthew 23:1-35; 7:15 etc.

F.B.

“Follow your gospel, follow Jesus, and remember why you follow Jesus.”

Thanks for the advice but we are already doing that.

F.B.

“I want to end the ignorance regarding Islam, and the animosity which exists against true believers in the same God.”

Then why have they always treated Christians differently by subjugating and/or murdering them? And if it is the same God then why do Muhammad and the Koran deny that Jesus is God? (John 1:1-14)

So how can you “end the ignorance regarding Islam” when you yourself are ignorant about Islam? All you are doing is helping to maintain the ignorance. You should realize that the “animosity” is built in because Islam is completely incompatible with Christianity - “And what accord has Christ with Belial?” 2 Corinthians 6:15

F.B.

“The Qur'an even says we should not engage in such debates, nor allow ourselves to be incited to anger by it."

The Qur’an? Why should anyone take advice from a book that is just one great lie? You are going against Jesus by trying to defend a doctrine of devils.

gabriella oak said...

Hey Fallon Behrens...

LOL !

apran said...

Fallon Behrens, remember that Jesus also rebuked the Jews using harsh words. Do you dare to call Jesus inciting hate?

Fallon Behrens said...

Jesus would not incite such hate or mockery. There is a difference when Jesus and John the Baptist rebuked the Pharisees and the meaningless hate and ignorance spread between two religions which view both Jesus and John the Baptist as God-sent.

I want everyone who commented to know this: I follow Jesus. Not Matthew, nor Mark, Luke or John, not Paul, but Jesus.
Muslims are commanded to speak truthfully, and know that in my heart I have not lied to you.

I am not here to continually debate doctrine, or defend my beliefs. Nor do I wish to offend any of you: I only hope to show that Muslims are not the horrible people you think.

The doctrines you all believe are wrong, are completely wrong based on the morals and evolution of ethical thought in mankind. Why should our view of God leave him restrained to the moral consciousness of man? None of us here can honestly claim that we completely know and understand God's plan for humanity, because we are only humans. God is so far above us, and we are merely servants to his will and higher knowledge. So, if centuries to thousands of years ago God said it was lawful for a prophet to have slaves, or to kill unbelievers... who are you or I to question that? Look at the Old Testament, it isn't only in the Qur'an.

Regarding Jesus: I will say that God knows better than I or you what truly happened to Jesus. One thing is certain: you and I both believe he is alive in Heaven and will return to earth. However, if it were in God's wisdom to raise him up that he may be spared... who are you or I to question that, except on the basis of what we believe?

Jesus, to us, is known as the Word of God.

I, too, would call out a false prophet. Or a false apologetic... there are so many better ways to spread the Gospel of Jesus.

Saying Muhammad died by poisoning and therefore can't be a prophet is as logical as saying Jesus died on the cross, failing to fulfill the most important Jewish Messianic prophecies, and therefore isn't the Messiah. Muhammad, to me, was a prophet as much as Jesus is the Messiah for us all.

The world will be a better place when no longer is the question: "Jesus or Muhammad?" so important, but rather, "Turn and repent! Serve God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!" By this I mean, we all must learn that we can coexist, even with such differences. We will not be in agreement until the return of the Messiah. And we should not spend what little time we have before then debating such little things when the most important one is being forgotten. Remember God, Love God, Serve God. Most importantly, in all cases, treat others with fairness and justice.

And yes, that is taught in the Qur'an. How can you call that a doctrine of devils?

There is a place for the devil, and those who have been swayed by him will certainly find their reward in Hellfire.

McGuffeySchoolhouseinTexas said...

If I may answer you, Fallon, I would like to express that I very much appreciate what you are saying. I think that all wise people wish to live in peace with their neighbors. We agree that Jesus's main message was love - love for God and love for our neighbors. I will not speak for Mr. Wood, but I suspect that love is his motivation in dedicating so much of his life to speaking about Islam. It's not hate. It's love. Why? Because Jesus said, "Greater love has no man than this - to lay down his life for his friends." He then went on to later identify who are friends and neighbors are - the entire world. If I or David or any other Christian is absolutely convinced in our hearts, souls, and minds that followers of Islam are deceived by a false religion and on their way to Hell, is it loving of us to stay silent or must we speak up - even knowing that it may make the Muslim hearer furiously angry and perhaps put our lives in some peril? We are commanded by God to "Speak the truth in love." Love sometimes has to say hard things, unpopular things, things that are misunderstood, things that cause great offense and anger, but the wisest man who ever lived King Solomon reminded us, "Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful." There truly is something more important than peace between religious adherents - the Truth. Jesus said, "I AM the Way, the Truth, and Life. No man comes to the Father, but by Me." To a Christian, the idea that Allah and the Yahweh are the same god is terribly offensive because the teachings in the Holy Books are at polar opposites - one says to die for your enemies; the other says to kill your enemies. The idea that God used to teach one thing and now teaches another is also categorically denied - Malachi 3:6 has the LORD speaking, "I the LORD do not change...". I do applaud your desire to live in peace with all those around you and to have the courage to stand up for what you feel is wrong and bigoted, but please understand that for any true follower of Christ who tries to speak to Muslims about Jesus, we do it out of love. The Bible does not teach that we will get some reward or extra credit or something for "converting" people. On the contrary, it states that "conversion" is something that God does and that a single act of faith in the redemption available to all through Jesus is the key to open the door of salvation. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice, and open the door, I will come into him, and sup with me, and he with me." The Bible states emphatically, "God is love." Let us both pray for each other that we may receive God's truth. I will pray that the Lord sends you a vision or a dream, if you are truly seeking to know the truth. I will pray for the same because if I am wrong, I want to know it. Please reply back here to let us know if the Lord reaches out to you. I will do the same.

Dan K said...

Perhaps the lol was a bit much. I love your work, David, but we must not let anyone find fault with us as Christians if we can help it.

Dan K said...

Well, perhaps the lol was a bit too much. We all want to be vehicles through which God converts hearts. Let us not let anyone find any fault with us as Christians if we can help it.

David Wood said...

Dan,

That's ridiculous nonsense. Following your reasoning, we must condemn God, Jesus, Paul, Peter, etc., because people find fault with all of them.

God could have been very gentle with the Jews who committed idolatry. Instead, he compared them to women lusting after donkeys rather than loving their husbands.

Jesus could have said something much gentler than "Woe unto you, scribes and pharisees, you hypocrites," but he didn't.

Paul could have been much nicer than saying that he wishes the Judaizers would castrate themselves, but he wasn't.

I could avoid saying "LOL" to avoid offending a Muslim who's actually offended that I'm criticizing Islam and is looking for ANYTHING to complain about, but I'm not going to be.

And if you fall for the whining of people like Fallon, you must also agree that they're right to reject Christianity, since Christianity is so needlessly offensive to them.

Dan K said...

Hmm... That is something to consider.

David Wood said...

And now let me show you the correct way to respond to someone like Fallon.

In the following passage from the History of al-Tabari, a man points out two alternatives for Muhammad. If Muhammad is victorious over the Quraysh, he will be remembered as the man who slaughtered his own tribesmen. If the Quraysh are victorious over him, Muhammad's followers will abandon him. Pay close attention to Abu Bakr's response:

"Urwah went to the Prophet and began speaking to him. The Prophet spoke as he had spoken to Budayl. Then Urwah said: 'Muhammad, tell me: if you exterminate your tribesmen, have you ever heard of any of the Arabs who destroyed his own race before you? And if the contrary comes to pass, by God I see both prominent people and rabble who are likely to flee and leave you.' Abu Bakr said, 'Go suck the clitoris of al-Lat! Would we flee and leave him?' (History of al-Tabari, Volume 8, p. 76)

Urwah was a polytheist who worshiped the goddess al-Lat. Abu Bakr mocked Urwah's beliefs by telling him to go such on al-Lat's clitoris. But this is far, far, far more offensive than saying "LOL" (which means "laugh out loud," and which I put whenever I happen to actually laugh out loud). Hence, by condemning "LOL," Fallon has just condemned Muhammad's closest companion.

Thanks Fallon, for proving that Muhammad's companions were evil people!

David Wood said...

Of course, Abu Bakr was simply following Muhammad's example by using such foul insults. Here's another quotation:

"Ubayy b. Ka‘b told that he heard God’s messenger say, 'If anyone proudly asserts his descent in the manner of the pre-Islamic people, tell him to bite his father’s penis, AND DO NOT USE A EUPHEMISM.'" It is transmitted in Sarah [sic] as-sunna. (Mishkat Al Masabih, Volume II, Book XXIV – General Behaviour, Chapter XIII. Boasting and Party-Spirit, p. 1021; bold and capital emphasis ours)

So Fallon has not only condemned me with his complaining. He has condemned his own prophet, who uses language far, far more offensive than LOL. Thank you, Fallon, for proving that Muhammad was an evil person. Since you're an apostate now, I encourage you to seek the truth.

David Wood said...

P.S. LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL!

David Wood said...

Dan said: "Hmm... That is something to consider."

Wow! A Christian who didn't freak out when I freak out! Most people go ballistic on me when I start ranting!

Good man.

Fallon Behrens said...

Mr. Wood, I am just asking for respect. I appreciate your broad scope of selected verses and hadiths, and that you know how to formulate an answer.
I don't wish to comment on the hadiths mentioned, because you and I both know we will not agree on the subject.
I am not trying to whine or complain, merely to suggest that there is a much better way to convey the love and message of Jesus. You put words in my mouth which I never uttered.
When I read your "LOL!" I know you are laughing out loud, it comes across as though you are laughing to my face and no person appreciates that. It is not the way to convey the love of Jesus.
I know as an apostate: I was a Christian before I embraced Islam. I know Jesus, I know the Bible, and I know that laughing like that at the beliefs of others is no way to convey Christianity.

Your logic says that you may insult me, because Jesus insulted the Pharisees, by that same logic I ought to tell you what those hadiths say, but I have no desire to use such language.

I had hoped, Mr. Wood, that you would respond more reasonably, conveying the compassion, mercy, and love which you idolize Jesus for.

Sufficient is God as a witness between me and you. And God is the Most Just, Most Merciful.

paki p said...

Peace and blessing of LORD JESUS be upon all.
@fallon behrens
I would like to correct you on a few things with a whole bunch of LOLs and a lot of love. You yourself answered you absurd question in your first comment that the reason brother David ended his sentence with a LOL is because he had just disproved a "baby mumu" lol, and thanks for your offer to end ignorance regarding Islam but Christians are doing that all over the world now you have no excuse to be ignorant about Islam lol. I do agree with you on a few things though, you're right mohammad didn't create a new god, pagan hamsi allah already existed in the tribe of quresh before mohammad LOL. I agree that Muslims are not horrible people only the true muslims are horrible people LOL. I agree with you that only God knows what happened to JESUS and he told us about it in bible LOL. I agree with you that you believe that JESUS is the word of God but when your uneducated profit was copying from bible he forgot to copy the rest of the verse in which that same word became flesh LOL. I also agree with you that this world will be a better place once there is no question about JESUS or mohammad, come to LORD JESUS and make this world a better place.
There's so so much that I don't agree with you but a few things would be,you said Jews Christians and Islam follow the same God, WRONG LOL. Christians and Jews follow the true living GOD LORD YAHUWA YARI not a pagan hamsi idol. You said brother David is not following JESUS but infact he's following him to the word and speaking the truth and spreading the gospel in the name of the father the son and the holy spirit and rejecting the false prophets that JESUS warned us about. And you DO NOT believe in JESUS but isa. Isa is not my YESU AL MASIH. You said you're not here to offend but you did just that by attacking by holy book , the true living words of THE LORD.
Have a blessed day......oh by the way I totally forgot LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

David Wood said...

Fallon, how is it "laughing to your face" to laugh when a Muslim claims to know the Qur'an better than Muhammad himself? Isn't this laughable to any Muslim?

Oops. I forgot that you're claiming to be a better Muslim than Muhammad. Here's a description of Muhammad by the Quraysh of his time:

“We have never seen the like of what we have endured from this man. He has derided our traditional values, abused our forefathers, reviled our religion, caused division among us, and insulted our gods. We have endured a great deal from him.” (History of al-Tabari, Volume VI, p. 101)

Interesting. So Muhammad "derided" their values, "reviled" their religion, and "insulted" their gods. Yet a "LOL" is immoral, according to you. Since you're claiming that LOL'ing is immoral, what must I concluded about a man who insults, derides, and reviles others because of their beliefs?

Even more interesting, you say that Christianity condemns such things. So according to you, Muhammad fell dreadfully short of the teachings of Jesus. So why should any of us obey Muhammad, when even his followers like you admit that he was a horrible individual and was nothing compared to Jesus?

I feel a special post coming on: "Muslim Condemns Muhammad"! LOL!

Mary W said...

Such behavior shows WHY such people are attracted to Islam, it sanctions rotten, evil behavior. Those who would love a rationalization for robbing people, abusing people, raping women, beating women, murdering people, etc. become "devout" Muslims.

Dan K said...

The thing is, I don't want potential converts to be driven away when they could otherwise consider your words.

paki p said...

@dan
It's because of christians like you who accept the dimmi status so willingly and to be politically correct that hundreds and thousands of christian through out the Muslim world are executed, killed and suffer horribly at the hands of respectable Muslims.
@fallon behrens
You want respect then start respecting me. Let me build a church in madina.
@david wood
Brother keep bringing your LOLs. We love it. God bless you and keep you, amen

Tom ta tum Tom said...

WAIT! WAIT, Y'ALL! This is serious - I mean REAL serious! Our dear brother "Aqua-man Marine" has insulted just a WHOLE BUNCH of people and they're ALL gonna be a'huntin' him.

What I mean is that FIRST, the Aqua-man insults our Whah-th-Hobbists bretheren and Sisterns by insin-uating that the Whah-th-Hobbists can't get any sex unless some poor woman is CAPTIVE as a slave. Wow, that's a pretty low blow. And the next thing you know, the Aqua-Mariner will be telling us the same thing about Whah-th-Hobbists with camels and turkeys. I'd be REAL careful talking about the sex-life of so many THOUSANDS of savage Whah-th-Hobbists (not to mention their camels).

And was that enough of a mess-up for poor angry Aqua-Man? NoooOOOOOoooo! Algae-Marine has to go and start using the SECRET CODE language that is SPECIFICALLY reserved for drunken-truckers all over the world. Hey, y'all there's a WHOLE LOT MORE drunken truckers than there are Whah-th-Hobbists and they can get REAL MEAN. I'm saying, they can make-the-ISIS-boys-look-like-Sunday-School-Teachers kind of MEAN. NOBODY messes with those guys! Just like pious polytheists are FORBIDDEN to affect the attire or manner of Muslims, so also is EVERYBODY ELSE forbidden to use the SECRET CODE language of the Drunken Truckers clan.

So, what I'm sayin' is that our poor dear friend Argue inMaine has done stepped in it BIG TIME - just because he got mad at David. The only way I can think of to save him is to get him some FGM and a Burka to wear for the rest of his life.

Maybe we can get some poor blind polytheist to buy agua Marney and give him cover as a sex-slave until the worst blows over. The Whah-th-Hobbists might be willing to forgive in, oh, a hundred years or so but those truckers? Man, the Drunken Truckers clan has a LONG memory and there won't be a truck-stop or highway rest-stop or camp-ground or porta-potty from here to Riyadh without the name of Aqua marine in the toilet. Smells like mint - at first.

ALLAHU OHYNKSMORR!!
ALLAHU OHYNKSMORR!!

[KAFIR AND PROUD!! ;)]

Fallon Behrens said...

You keep putting words in my mouth, Mr. Wood. I don't claim to know the Qur'an better than Muhammad, I don't claim to be a better Muslim than Muhammad (God forbid such thoughts even enter my mind!). I claim to be a true follower of Islam, and I claim to know the truth of Islam.

That quote you used, if you look to the Old Testament, could be applied to many, many prophets. Noah, Jonah, Moses, just to name a few.

Also, if I were to be told by God to condemn immoral society, to accuse the unbelievers for their false beliefs, and call them to worship the One True God... I certainly would do it, and by any means required of me. Wouldn't you? As a matter of fact, it sounds like what you are trying to do!

You are the one claiming to know what Muhammad was like. And I tell you, he treated the unbelievers as did Joshua, and Moses. There are plenty of places where the Bible explicitly said such atrocities happened at the hands of the Prophets.


And I am sorry for not having been more clear in my last post. I am citing what I know to be Christian beliefs and moral values about how to treat your fellow people, because I had hoped to appeal to your moral conscience. However, I can see your main interest is in disproving Islam rather than attacking Muslims per se, and therefore you aren't responding totally reasonably to my messages.

I believe that Jesus would have upheld the actions of Muhammad, and acknowledged him as a Messenger of God. That is what I believe. I also believe that Christians teach more love and compassion than what I have seen displayed in these comments. Forgive me for appealing to the teachings of your gospel.

I would encourage you to keep your sarcastic comment to just that- a sarcastic comment. I haven't condemned Muhammad and stooping to the level of a liar ought to be beneath a Christian. It is certainly beneath the true Muslims.

"O People of the Scripture, why do you avert from the way of Allah those who believe, seeking to make it [seem] deviant, while you are witnesses [to the truth]? And Allah is not unaware of what you do."

"Whoever recommends and helps a good cause becomes a partner therein: And whoever recommends and helps an evil cause, shares in its burden: And Allah hath power over all things."

Ash hadu an la ilaha ill Allah wa ash hadu anna Muhammadar Rasul Allah.

Sufficient is He as a witness to what is in my heart, and my intentions.

Cath Def said...

It's disturbing how Muslims around the world try to whitewash what's obviously evil in our standard of what's moral.

Nojmul Huda said...

@Fallon Behrens, You got to agree with me that Muslims’ believe system including you a convert about Jesus comes from what you found in Quran and Christian’s believe system comes from Gospel written by Mathew, Mark, Luke and John by their eye witness account living with Jesus. By saying you believe Jesus but not writers of Jesus you are wrong. Muhamad did not see Jesus, he learnt about Jesus from others.

You also got to know that Quran is compiled by 1st caliph Abu Bakr (632-634) after death of Muhammad and edited to present form by ‘Uthman ibn Affan (653-656). If you believe Quran is book of Allah you may believe so but non-Muslim cannot buy your idea because of rationality and practical truth.

You agree with me that Almighty God is righteous and did not commanded people to do any unjust in any time, such as killing non-Muslim as commanded by Quran. Jesus by saving life of a prostitute woman from killing by stone throw showed the world that God commanded to kill a sinner by an absolute holy man not by people like ISIS or other fanatics like you and me. You know the story that none claimed to be holy and prostitute woman was saved. Almighty God is not irrational like Muslims.

Last not least, Muhammad failed to understand and incorporated into Quran, kindness of loving God for mankind by forgiving our sinful character thru painful death of Jesus at the cross. By Jesus’ sacrifice at cross God took human being as His adopted sons and daughters and considered us no more slave, as Muslims believe.

Muslims believe God by magic remove Jesus and put Iscariot Judah into Jesus’ place to fool Israelis. If this is true story as said in Quran why was Muhammad not saved from poisoning, he believed to be friend of Allah and bigger than Jesus as described in Quran? What a believe!

Mike said...

Such silence since 9:30 feels like "ISIS" LOL so sorry for the insult; I have gone to lower case lol! Dang it i will just say it, if the internet isn't enough please if you live in america go to Barnes and Noble and buy not one but all their translations of the supposedly "generous" koran. if you are American and wish to remain so- DO SO!

Mike said...

I feel a special post coming on: "Muslim Condemns Muhammad"! LOL!

Dacritic said...

This is the pattern that recurs over and over again, even more evident in Islamic majority countries, like the one I am in now. Besides the "Step 4" of going berserk and hurling insults, they like to accuse you of discussing "sensitive" issues. It seems like Muslims are especially "sensitive" whenever people touch on religion, especially THEIR religion. Oh, right, because they love their prophet so much (and you Buddhists and Christians and Hindus apparently do not love Buddha or Jesus or Krishna enough to get angry and start insulting or issuing death threats whenever someone discusses your religion, shame on you!). But when a non-Muslim is asked to abandon his/her faith to marry a Muslim, we don't see these people making a big fuss about the forced conversion. You know, Surah 9:29 is very right, especially on the "...feel themselves subdued" part. As long as you feel yourselves "subdued" in some way, i.e. when you marry a Muslim, you convert and don't start asking why isn't the Muslim converting out of Islam instead, or by all means discuss religion but don't ever dare touch on Islam, or Muslims can park indiscriminately on roadside during Friday prayers and don't you dare issue summons, then you are fine. In fact, you could be charged with "inciting hate" or "sedition" and be thrown in prison if you mention these unfavourable facts about Islam. Worse, you might even be charged with rebelling against the king where I am from. Even in neighbouring Singapore, a so-called first world, intelligent, world class country, you are banned from proselytizing to Muslims, again because it is supposedly raises that "sensitive" nerve that seems to only exist in a Muslim body. But...thank God for the internet and websites such as this, this exposure can no longer be withheld from the world.

PRODOS said...

I don't mind Fallon Behrens criticising David Woods for his "LOL".

Although I'm not a big fan of such "swipes", in the Hellenic/Christian/Judaic tradition some teasing and provocation is not considered such a big deal. It is part of robust exchange. And it tests the confidence and self-assuredness of the person one is debating.

Indeed, if one side acts irreverent and the other maintains their cool, it can turn the tables.

But to turn the tables in this way requires two things:

1. Point out that the other side is acting disrespectfully, AND
2. In a cool-headed manner, proceed to rebut the argument made by the irreverent person.

It is inadequate and counter-productive to do the first thing without ALSO doing the second.

Not including the second thing -- the cool-headed rebuttal -- makes it appear as if the critic is in fact unable to carry out an effective rebuttal and is THEREFORE carrying out an exercise in distraction and de-legitimisation in order to obscure this fact.

I'm certainly not suggesting that this is Fallon's intention. I'm merely indicating how it CAN appear to those who are primarily interested in the facts and arguments.

By not rebutting the irreverent individual's argument, you merely give him the last word on the subject and he has effectively won the debate by default.

I would like to read Fallon Behrens' refutation of David Woods' argument that Islam endorses having sex with female captives.

And, since the issue has now bee raised, I would like to also read Fallon's response to the mockery and insults towards others that are within Islamic texts.

I am confident the moderator of this blog will have no objections to this.

Thanks.

Best Wishes,

PRODOS
Melbourne, Australia

Mike said...

@ Fallon Behrens I will pray that your eyes will be opened to the truth which only JESUS himself can show through the holy Spirit. I pray that from now on only the true and living GOD shows you the truth in Dreams and visions which can only come from him. mohammed had a demon show up in broad daylight but God the father visits his children in dreams and visions. So that is my prayer that the Creator of life-from flowers to newborn babies-visits you with the true love that you so eagerly yearn for.

jimothy b said...

Fallon B.

“I want everyone who commented to know this: I follow Jesus. Not Matthew, nor Mark, Luke or John, not Paul, but Jesus.”

According to the original scriptures found in the Bible (which existed long before Muhammad and his Koran), the Jesus of the Koran is just a false Christ, an idol of Muhammad’s own invention.

F.B.

“Muslims are commanded to speak truthfully, and know that in my heart I have not lied to you.”

You must be lying if you deny that the Bible plainly says that Jesus is the Creator. You claim to be an ex-Christian so you have no excuse for not knowing.

F.B.

“I only hope to show that Muslims are not the horrible people you think.”

No one said they are all horrible people, but they are certainly following a horrible doctrine, and one that has absolutely no accord with the gospel of Christ (His death, resurrection, and redemption through Him alone). There is no salvation in Islam. That is why it is a doctrine of devils.

F.B.

“So, if centuries to thousands of years ago God said it was lawful… to kill unbelievers… Look at the Old Testament, it isn't only in the Qur'an.”?

As an ex-Christian you should know better than to try to deceive people with that argument. Muhammad distorted the Old Testament events to fit his own agenda. In the Old Testament they weren’t killing ordinary unbelievers, but criminal societies who practiced all kinds of truly evil things and had God’s judgement coming, and after much warning. But Muhammad deceitfully twisted this so that it includes anyone who does not follow his doctrine of devils.

F.B

“Regarding Jesus: I will say that God knows better than I or you what truly happened to Jesus.”

That’s right, as we get it from the original scriptures found in the Bible. Not something plagiarized and twisted out of all recognition by some false prophet, Muhammad, 600 years later, for his own ends.

F.B.

“I, too, would call out a false prophet.”

Well what are you waiting for? Do the right thing and go and tell everyone that Muhammad is a false prophet.

Dacritic said...

Fallon, seriously, since David is quoting the Quran and the Hadith, try to show proof from there to disprove him. You know you can't, but we'd love to see you try. Otherwise you won't "end the ignorance regarding Islam". You said you were a Christian. The Bible told us Jesus DIED on the Cross, and was RESURRECTED, and ascendeded back to heaven, so nowhere did it say the Jews were deceived and it was MADE TO LOOK like he died but was rescued by God instead. Already on this most fundamental issue, the Bible and the Quran cannot BOTH be right. They can both be wrong, but cannot both be right. So someone is lying. We know who. We encourage you to find out the truth... and then yes, repent.

PRODOS said...

Reading through some of the follow-up comments, I see that Fallon writes:

"Why should our view of God leave him restrained to the moral consciousness of man? None of us here can honestly claim that we completely know and understand God's plan for humanity, because we are only humans. God is so far above us, and we are merely servants to his will and higher knowledge."

If that is the case, then this leave open the possibility that the teachings of Mohammed or of Jesus may in fact be wrong or may be declared wrong by God at some point.

Indeed, if my memory serves me, Mohammed himself stated that it was not certain he would go to Heaven.

(Please correct me if I am mistaken on this.)

Best Wishes,

PRODOS
Melbourne, Australia.

jimothy b said...

F.B.

“there are so many better ways to spread the Gospel of Jesus.”

There is only one way and that is according to God’s word in the Bible, which was in existence long before the false prophet and his Koran.

F.B.

“Saying Muhammad died by poisoning and therefore can't be a prophet is as logical as saying Jesus died on the cross, failing to fulfil the most important Jewish Messianic prophecies, and therefore isn't the Messiah.”

Except that Jesus predicted His own death and resurrection which would make Him the Messiah.

Muhammad on the other hand was caught unawares which would make him a nobody.

F.B.

“The world will be a better place when no longer is the question: "Jesus or Muhammad?" so important, but rather, "Turn and repent! Serve God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!" By this I mean, we all must learn that we can coexist, even with such differences.”

Nice fantasy, but ultimately this is not possible if the Muslim is commanded to lie to, deceive and kill all those outside of Islam.

F.B.

“And we should not spend what little time we have before then debating such little things when the most important one is being forgotten. Remember God, Love God, Serve God. Most importantly, in all cases, treat others with fairness and justice.”

That’s a nice fantasy too, but Muslims are commanded to do this only among themselves (“make no friends among the unbelievers”). Everyone else is sub-human ‘(pigs, dogs, kafirs etc) and fair game for whatever Muslims can get away with in regard to deceiving, stealing and killing the non-Muslim, and to advance Islam.

So we are not debating "such little things" at all, are we?

And exactly who is this "God" that you are talking about?

F.B.

“And yes, that is taught in the Qur'an. How can you call that a doctrine of devils? There is a place for the devil, and those who have been swayed by him will certainly find their reward in Hellfire.”

If you don’t have the Christ of the triune God of the original Scriptures found in the Bible, then that is where you will find yourself. “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:6

Obviously there is no salvation in a (mere mortal) non-existent Islamic Jesus.

bam bamba said...

David, Its wonderful that you took the time to explain what LOL means to some people. You see I noticed that when you catch a thief with their fingers in the cookie jar they always go ballistic looking for any way out.I think LOL is so harmless and in fact a normal abbreviation as compared to the filth that came out of that allah follower I hereby second your LOL ten times plus 20. Great work David

Mike said...

@ Fallon Behrens don't quote Christian scripture- which you say is corrupt- please use only your version of what mohammed said -even in light of your own fault with his teachings.

ignatius said...

Fallon, no one in this blog that I know of would make an unqualified claim that Muslims are horrible people. Of course that depends on how closely they follow the more depraved of Mohammed's teachings, and of course most of them don't.

So you're a former Christian? Then come back to Christ. Accept him as your Lord, Savior and God.

We know enough about Mohammed now to be sure that he was a fraud. You say you don't want to get into a discussion on these things. Maybe it's because many of the things Mo did are indefensible.

Come back to Christ, or if that's not possible now, at least ask God to show you the truth. He will not turn away anyone who really seeks Him.

Talal Itani said...

Intelligent people do not listen to what people say about the religions of the others, because people lie about the religions of the others. This has been going since day one.
Intelligent people go to the source book.
Quran in English is at www.clearquran.com

David Wood said...

Dan K said: "The thing is, I don't want potential converts to be driven away when they could otherwise consider your words."

Dan, this is once again nonsense. If you're going to grant that a Muslim is justified in rejecting the Gospel because I said "LOL," what in the name of common sense makes you think that he's going to open the Bible, read the words of God, Jesus, Peter, Paul, etc., and accept them (when they're much more harsh than anything I've ever said)? Do you really think there are Muslims out there who are ready to convert, but then say, "I'm ready to admit that Islam is false and that Jesus, the divine Son of God, died on the cross for sins and rose from the dead. Oh, wait a minute. David said 'LOL,' so I change my mind. I hereby reject Christianity."

You shouldn't fall for this, Brother.

Fallon Behrens said...

"I would like to read Fallon Behrens' refutation of David Woods' argument that Islam permits having sex with female captives, regardless of their marital status."

Yes, the Qur'an says this. Who are you or I to question what God has allowed?
I praise and thank God that our human consciousness has evolved so that many of us believe such things are morally wrong, but let's look at the verse:

"And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise."

And another hadith:
In an authentic narration from Sunan Al Bayhaqi,Book no. 72 Chapter no. 84 Hadith no. 18001 It is mentioned:
"Abu al-Hussain bin al-Fadhl al-Qatan narrated from Abdullah bin Jaffar bin Darestweh from Yaqub bin Sufyan from al-Hassan bin Rabee from Abdullah bin al-Mubarak from Kahmas from Harun bin Al-Asam who said: Umar bin al-Khatab may Allah be pleased with him sent Khalid bin al-Walid in an army, hence Khalid sent Dharar bin al-Auwzwar in a squadron and they invaded a district belonging to the tribe of Bani Asad. They then captured a pretty bride, Dharar liked her hence he asked his companions to grant her to him and they did so. He then had sexual intercourse with her, when he completed his mission he felt guilty, and went to Khalid and told him about what he did. Khalid said: ‘I permit you and made it lawful to you.’ He said: ‘No not until you write a message to Umar’. (Then they sent a message to Umar) and Umar answered that he (Dharar) should be stoned. By the time Umar’s message was delivered, Dharar was dead. (Khalid) said: ‘Allah didn’t want to disgrace Dharar’"

Taking these two together, the Qur'an verse clearly means that it is only permissible in the case that the woman is willing or unmarried. Now, in the context of this war, captivity, and old customs- these women were free and untied to their marriages because of their presence as captives in Muslim territory once their menstruation passed. Allah punishes and does not love unbelievers, but this is not his form of punishment. This is permissible only if the Muslim intends to make a certain woman his bride (also in the context that she would become a Muslim, a believer.) Otherwise it is unlawful sexual intercourse, and shameful. Do not think I am condoning these actions, I do not. But understand that our human consciousness has completely shifted in the last couple centuries. Praise God for that, but do not be fooled in to thinking that makes God subject to our own laws and reasoning. He is not.

Fallon Behrens said...

"And, since the issue has now bee raised, I would like to also read Fallon's response to the mockery and insults towards others that are within Islamic texts."

I do not wish to answer this. I don't condone such disrespect in today's society. However, that is not to say that we have not been told to call false doctrines and liars what they are. Christianity has as well. However, I do not feel I should justify this in light of what has been said in some of these comments. Clearly, Christians feel justified in this as well. What I seek is a respectful environment where we can truthfully learn about each other. Such insults and foul language is contradictory to what I seek.
I will say this: it is clear that God wants the unbelievers to hear and know the truth, and that they will receive their due punishment by Him for that. It is clear we are supposed to call out their false doctrines and beliefs. But why do we need to use such disrespect and language to do that?

It comes down to knowing, praying and understanding (or trying to understand) God. The prophets were not perfect (except probably Jesus, who- along with Mary- even Islam says sin never touched), but God is perfect. We are not perfect, but God is perfect. Therefore, we must always remember God and remember that He knows better than us. Every single time. We must pray for understanding, and always remember that we may be wrong. God does not need us, but we need God.

David Wood said...

Fallon said: "I don't claim to be a better Muslim than Muhammad."

LOL! The Qur'an declares that Muhammad is the pattern of conduct for Muslims (33:21).

Muhammad also said that the first generation of Muslims was the best.

Muhammad told people he disagreed with to "bite their fathers' penises." He insulted the gods of the polytheists.

The Qur'an calls Christians and Jews "the worst of creatures" (98:6).

Abu Bakr told a man to go perform oral sex on the goddess he believed in.

Your god, your prophet, and the early Muslims condemned non-Muslims and their beliefs in the most disrespectful manner imaginable.

Yet you say that it's wrong and immoral not to be polite and respectful when discussing other people's beliefs.

You can't condemn this sort of behavior without condemning Allah, Muhammad, and Abu Bakr. Hence, you are indeed claiming to know Islam better than Allah, Muhammad, and Abu Bakr.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say "X is wrong and immoral," when Muhammad did X.

So congratulations, Fallon, you're an apostate now.

LOL!

Fallon Behrens said...

Mr. Wood: Do you not think the first generation of Christians must have been the best? How amazing, to live at the time of a prophet and hear the direct word of God from that prophet! How blessed those people were, to hear and follow the call of God through his prophets...

Our generation is left to find and seek the truth of the prophets. You can take what is handed to you, or you can dive in head first and immerse yourself in faith and study. I am sure you have done the latter, as have I; therefore, I expected you to understand my words and what I ask.
Your responses have revealed to me your tactics of debate, and they are almost precisely textbook the way you lay them out and use them to twist others' words. Your lies do not even come from your gross misunderstanding of Islam. You are lying about my own words, which were evident plain as day to be read.

What about 98: 4-5?
"Nor did those who were given the Scripture become divided until after there had come to them clear evidence."
"And they were not commanded except to worship Allah , [being] sincere to Him in religion, inclining to truth, and to establish prayer and to give zakah. And that is the correct religion."
And, verse 6"Indeed, they who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures."

They are the worst of creatures who have heard and know the truth of the One God and who look at it, simply because a new prophet comes, and deny that prophet. This is true for those who rejected Jesus as well.

I do not condemn the prophet, nor Allah. Sufficient is He as a witness to the truth.

One would think, Mr. Wood, that you are trying to incite me to a similar anger as in the picture to prove your point. Subhanallah, patience is a gift from God. As are all things.

MELWYN DANIEL said...

muslims are always been agressive when they know that they are truely wrong,,,, so am not that surprised for what he just said@aqua maria ,,,,,, may jesus christ have mercy on him as he mercy on us

MELWYN DANIEL said...

my bro david did u guys stopped the show name Mohammad or jesus!!!!

David Wood said...

Fallon said: "How amazing, to live at the time of a prophet and hear the direct word of God from that prophet! How blessed those people were, to hear and follow the call of God through his prophets..."

Not sure how you're not getting this. (1) The greatest generation of Muslims was horribly offensive in the way they addressed non-Muslims. (2) You say it's wrong and immoral to address people in an offensive manner. (3) Therefore, the greatest generation of Muslims was wrong and immoral. (4) Since they obviously saw no problem with such behavior, you must know Islam better than they did. (5) But you claim that you don't know Islam better than they did, which means (6) that we must reject everything you're saying, because it contradicts Allah, Muhammad, and the greatest generation of Muslims.

Are you just trying to waste everyone's time here?

Fallon said: "They are the worst of creatures who have heard and know the truth of the One God and who look at it, simply because a new prophet comes, and deny that prophet. This is true for those who rejected Jesus as well."

So I'm one of the "worst of creatures" because I reject Islam, right? So you agree that the Qur'an refers to me as one of the "worst of creatures"? And the other Christians here, all of whom reject Muhammad, are the "worst of creatures," right?

So you agree that we are the worst of creatures. Is this what you call "respectful"? You condemn a "LOL," but praise a "YOU ARE THE WORST OF CREATURES"??? According to your book, we're worse than dogs or insects. But you're telling us how to address people properly?

Thanks again for condemning your god, your prophet, and the greatest generation of Muslims!

Are you ready to take back your complaint about "LOL," or are you going to continue condemning your own religion?

Fallon Behrens said...

I think I made it clear that it is in the context of today's day and age that I condemn it. Aside from this, you again lie about and twist my words.
I tell you this: Mr. Wood, you have sold your faith for the cheap price of your own ego.

That is how you call out falsehood, with no laughing necessary. My point is that you can say whatever you need to without adding pointless disrespect and lies. For the record, I would have condemned the Muslim in the picture, but no further replies were permitted to that comment.

God will be judge, and He will be the most just. I know some Jews, Christians and Muslims will enter Heaven. You are not the worst of creatures until you are in Hellfire. We are right now all people, and I do not claim to know which of us will be deemed worthy. But we all have the chance to repent, therefore no- I say we are the best of creatures in our lives for having free will and seeking God at all. God will tell us who was false, and who lived wrong.

David Wood said...

LOL!

Fallon says: "That is how you call out falsehood, with no laughing necessary."

Now let's turn to the Bible, to see what it says.

"Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth rise up and the rulers band together against the Lord and against his anointed, saying, 'Let us break their chains and throw off their shackles.' The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them."

Ha! God laughs at people's feeble attempts to thwart him. But it's wrong to laugh at such things, right, Fallon?

Fallon said: "I tell you this: Mr. Wood, you have sold your faith for the cheap price of your own ego."

LOL! You say that I have "sold my faith" because I don't contradict the Bible by insisting on rules that Jesus and Paul didn't accept. But you're a true follower of your religion, because you insist on rules that would condemn your own prophet and your own god! Interesting view of religion you have there! Anyone who actually follows a religion is selling his faith, but those who contradict and condemn the religion are true believers! LOL! You must be an American Muslim to believe such things!

Fallon said: "You are not the worst of creatures until you are in Hellfire."

Wow! Allah says that those who reject Islam ARE (present) the worst of creatures and that they WILL (future) enter the fire of hell. But you say they AREN'T the worst of creatures UNTIL they enter the fire of hell. I guess you know more about Islam than your god after all!

Fallon said: "I think I made it clear that it is in the context of today's day and age that I condemn it."

Amazing! So when Allah, in his eternal Word, calls Muhammad the pattern of conduct for Muslims, he only meant that Muhammad was the pattern of conduct in the seventh century, but that we should reject Muhammad's conduct today, because Muhammad's conduct would be horribly offensive to people today. Great! So anything our culture doesn't accept, we get to reject! It's good to see you once again know more about Islam than your god does!

LOL!

Fallon Behrens said...

You put yourself equal with God by your first remark. God may laugh at whomever he pleases, God will do whatever he pleases, and God is certainly the Most Just, Most Merciful.

You, Mr. Wood, are but a creation of the Most High. Just one single person. You are not better than any other person. I am but a creation of the Most High. One single person. I am not better than any other person. Therefore, I merely seek a peace where you insist on defaming and defiling.
I insist on these things so that we are not blinded by our own bias. I do not, and have not, condemned God or the Prophet. I know nothing compared to God, and I owe everything to Him.

I do not say that we should reject it because our culture doesn't accept it. I say we should conform to the laws of society and respect one another as we convey our interpretations of the Truth. In America, it is the only way to reach genuine understanding.
Muhammad was a prophet, therefore don't speak of his actions as though you know better (Or Joshua, or Moses because you have to believe in them.) Muhammad's imaan is the ideal imaan, and just as Muhammad was the picture of a perfect Muslim, so were Jesus and Joseph and Moses and Joshua, Isaiah, Jerimaiah, Nehemiah, Zacheriah, David, Solomon...You do not condone the actions of ISIS, yet in the Old Testament there are several passages which depict mass killings of Unbelievers and apostates. I am not a prophet, I am but a slave of the Most High, and as such I request that you cease your lies and incessant attacking of little words which don't at all mean what you take them to mean. We will never achieve peace on the road you follow, Mr. Wood. In my heart, I know only the Messiah will bring the peace I desire... yet I ask all of you humbly to promote peace. There is no point to arguments like this between me and Mr. Wood- we will not come to agreement until the day we see the Messiah.

By your logic, Mr. Wood, I should be saying horrible things to you. I choose not to in hopes that my words will reach you, or someone, that someone may realize I speak the truth. Is it wrong of me to seek peace, knowledge and understanding? Do you think that because I am a Muslim it is impossible for us to reason the Truth out of our Book? Because I am an American, I can therefore, have no understanding of Islam? By that logic, if you aren't a Jew you shouldn't understand the Bible! I tell you, I am one of the Children of Israel. I pray to the God of Abraham, and I pray that I will be forgiven if I have spoken wrong, and that my words are guided only by His truth. Always do I pray these things.

God has always known who will enter Hellfire. To God, they 'are' because he knows. I don't know, so I say the ones who 'WILL BE' are the worst. Because I don't know that I will be in Heaven, or you, or who will be in Hellfire, this is not a judgement for me to make. There will be a time when we all know.

I really think you're almost begging me to use the foul language those hadiths requite. Yet I tell you again, patience and understanding are gifts from the Most High.

Radical Moderate said...

David Wood wrote to Fallen

"Wow! Allah says that those who reject Islam ARE (present) the worst of creatures and that they WILL (future) enter the fire of hell. But you say they AREN'T the worst of creatures UNTIL they enter the fire of hell. I guess you know more about Islam than your god after all!"

My Response: Not to mention if they are not he worst of creatures until they enter the hell fire then why are they going into the hell fire in the first place. Does allah send the best of creatures to the hell fire so they can become the worst of creatures?

TAREK said...

Mr. Fallon LOL Bahren I think you do not know where you put your feet it is right now that your are beginning realize what faith you embraced LOL.
Please Come back toback to CHRIST and experience the love you are longing for. Otherwise you will have a rain of "LOLs" on you everyday. Think of it and read not recite Q 3 verse 55 and follow it.
MAY YAHWEH BLESS

John 8:24 said...

@Fallon,

Sorry to break this news to u but you were NEVER a true Christian. You THINK you were but you were not. You might have been born in some namesake Christian family and got some half-baked superficial knowledge of Christianity and the Bible. Therefore u became an easy target for the devil to snatch you with lies and deception. If you belonged to Jesus, He would never let the enemy snatch you.

Anyway, it's not too late to come to the light. Maybe you can first start with giving some intelligent and honest responses to the difficult questions put forward here. All you did so far is beating around the bush and handwaving. I hope you are smart enough to see that.

David Wood said...

Fallon said: "You put yourself equal with God by your first remark. God may laugh at whomever he pleases, God will do whatever he pleases, and God is certainly the Most Just, Most Merciful."

Nonsense. I pointed out that your condemnation, if taken seriously, would condemn the God of the Bible (just as you've already condemned Muhammad, Muhammad's companions, Allah, Jesus, Paul, etc.).

The point remains the same, and it's one you don't seem to take seriously (odd, for someone who condemns laughing). When you blurt out rules without knowing ANYTHING about the religions your discussing, you run the risk of condemning your own religion. You keep saying you haven't, but you obviously have.

David Wood said...

Fallon said: "I am not better than any other person. Therefore, I merely seek a peace where you insist on defaming and defiling."

Do you still not get this? You say that a mere "LOL" is wrong and immoral. If this is the case, then your prophet and his companions were far, far worse. You seem to think that it was a different culture back then, and therefore acceptable. But "Go suck your goddess's clitoris" and "Go bite your father's penis" were obscene, profane, offensive, etc. back then as well.

So like it or not, you've condemned Muhammad and Islam. Moreover, you don't seem at all repentant, which means that you're a full-blown apostate.

David Wood said...

Fallon said: "I do not say that we should reject it because our culture doesn't accept it. I say we should conform to the laws of society and respect one another as we convey our interpretations of the Truth. In America, it is the only way to reach genuine understanding."

Oh my goodness. You deny that you're referring to our culture, and instead say that we should "conform to the laws of society and respect one another" because "IN AMERICA, it is the only way to reach genuine understanding." Do you even think before you post this nonsense? LAWS! There's no LAW against "LOL"! So all you can say is that "IN AMERICA," we should do X. BUT THIS IS AN APPEAL TO CULTURE, WHICH YOU DENY YOU'RE APPEALING TO.

If you believe it's more than culture, then it's a universal, in which case your prophet stands condemned for violating a universal rule of morality.

So, by denying that you're appealing to culture, you have just accused your prophet of gross immorality (again).

(BTW, it's quite acceptable to write "LOL" in American culture. As far as I recall, you're the only one I've ever seen throw a tantrum over it!)

David Wood said...

Fallon said: "Muhammad's imaan is the ideal imaan, and just as Muhammad was the picture of a perfect Muslim."

So a perfect Muslim is the sort of person who would tell someone to go bite his father's penis? And the "best generation" is the generation that would tell someone to "go suck your goddess's clitoris"!

And let me guess: you'll say that having sex with a nine-year-old girl is wrong in America, but not for the "perfect Muslim." And you'll say it's wrong to have eleven wives at one time, but not wrong for the "perfect Muslim."

Has Islam blinded you this much already? Do you really not see any problem saying (1) behavior X is wrong, but (2) the ideal Muslim did X? If Muhammad is the standard, then nothing he did is wrong. But you keep condemning people for doing far, far less than Muhammad ever did.

David Wood said...

Fallon said: "By your logic, Mr. Wood, I should be saying horrible things to you. I choose not to in hopes that my words will reach you, or someone, that someone may realize I speak the truth."

Nonsense. I agree that you shouldn't behave like Muhammad, because he was a wicked, perverted person. I would never advise you to go and have sex with a little girl like your prophet did, just as I would never go around using foul insults the way your prophet did.

The simply point here (and it's very, very simple) is that when you run around condemning people, and your prophet did things that were far worse, you condemn your prophet.

You don't seem to understand basic consistency. It seems that Islam is having its effect already. You've only been a Muslim a short time, and you're already prepared to condemn all non-Muslims, and to excuse any behavior of Muhammad, no matter how despicable.

In other words, you're already becoming an extreme hypocrite.

How original. And you're trying to convince us to adopt the religion that promotes such hypocrisy?

LOL!

David Wood said...

Fallon said: "I had hoped, Mr. Wood, that you would respond more reasonably, conveying the compassion, mercy, and love which you idolize Jesus for."

You seem to think that love means "being nice." Nonsense. Love is often brutally honest, or even mocking. When Jesus condemned people for their hypocrisy, it was the most loving thing he could do.

Similarly, the most loving thing I can do for Muslims who act like they know more about Islam than their own prophet is to write "LOL!"

But since you believe that love always means being nice, you've once again condemned Muhammad, who was disgusting and repulsive in his language. How many times have you condemned Muhammad in this short discussion?

Fallon Behrens said...

You, Mr. Wood, are a liar and you know it. I'm done here, I didn't even intend that one comment to be blown so out of proportion by you. But remember my words. You have sold your own faith, and are blinded by your desire to show your version of the truth. You have twisted my words, lied about what I have said and I see you doing this in all your responses to Muslims and in all your videos. I commented on them out of respect and a desire for mutual learning. Your attacks, lies and textbook debate tactics prove nothing more than your blindness to your own beliefs in Jesus! I know my opinion matters not to you, but I no longer respect you or your knowledge of even the Bible.
I am no hypocrite, and I will say again that God is sufficient as a witness between you and I, and what is in each of our hearts.
You are the hypocrite for claiming that Islam calls for harsh words to the Unbelievers and not supporting that while putting yourself on a pedestal as you hurl your justified 'Christian' lies just because you like seeing your own words published.

I asked you for peace and respect, and you said no because you are following the teachings of Jesus...now who sounds like the bigoted, blind follower?
Live your life, say what you will. I have done all I can by my religion and heart and you continue to do no more than twist my words, misquote me and delve further into your own selfish world.

So continue spreading your doctrine of lies, and pray you are not among the lawless whom Jesus will cast away. Because right now, Mr. Wood, you are not following him properly. You have acted very childish in your responses, and I hope that you think twice before idly tossing around such words when you have no idea the power or effect on your soul.

I have said all I can. Sufficient is God as a witness to the truth and what is in my heart, and sufficient is He as witness to all things. To God I owe everything, and to Him we will all return.


And my last comment I will direct to John 8:24 and say that if you truly belonged to God, you would not think you belonged to Jesus. You know nothing about what I believed or where I was born and what you have said was a grievous insult to my family in ways you have no clue about. It isn't your place to judge me. Nor is it mine to judge you, but don't follow Mr. Wood's own completely raw version of Christianity. Eating uncooked meat will make you sick.

Fallon Behrens said...

By the way, I wasn't trying to convince anyone to adopt the religion. Again, this is up to God and not me. I have only attempted to share the truth:

la ilaha illallah

Dacritic said...

No. 1: David, as Fallon rightly said, patience is a gift from God. Ironically, you are the one showing such patience in dealing with people like this. LOL LOL LOL.

No. 2: Hats off to people who cannot understand consistency, and this goes out to all so-called ex Christians who converted to Islam. The simple question to be asked, "Did Jesus die on the cross and got raised up or not?" If someone converts to Islam then they have to say no to this question and hence take up the position that the Bible is lying. Then they say, "Oh no! Maybe God is trying to mean something else..." or "Maybe the Bible is corrupted..." No, I believe the Bible is God's clear word, and when it said Jesus died, He died. Hence I cannot be a Muslim, ever. And therefore yes, the Quran is lying.

No. 3: If by this I am called the "worst of creatures", then I'm proud to be "worst of creatures". Maybe I should print a T-shirt with "Worst of Creatures" written large and then a fine print "according to Islam." But all I know is, I am one of the "...sinners, of whom I am chief."

jimothy b said...

Fallon, you are wasting your time trying to play the victim, because everyone can see through it.

And you keep talking about peace as if it is the most important thing (so does the devil when it suits him), but the truth is far more important than peace. It's no good having a peaceful life and then ending up in hell.

So if it takes a few LOL's to wake someone up, then so be it.

Most people will be grateful for few chastisements if it saved their life. All people are sinners and sinners need chastising and ridiculing/shaming from time to time, by means of the scriptures, to expose their foolishness and help draw them back from destruction.

Sancho Panza said...

When Muslims whine about not getting respect from non-muslims what they are basically saying is this:

'All we want to do is slaughter and crucify you, rape your women, enslave your children, destroy your churches and temples and extract jizya from you. That's all we want to do.

And you want to hurt our feelings by being disrespectful to us! How can you be so mean? Boo hoo!

Brokenstriker said...

Dear Fallon,
I hope you open your eyes and mind before its too late. David laid it out for you quite clearly. The only explanation for your reaction is that you refuse to admit that he is correct. If you would do that you'd realize he's trying to help you.

Mighty Joe Young said...

Mr. Wood, you have sold your faith for the cheap price of your own ego.

Is that an accusation of spiritual simony?

The simple fact of the matter is that one can have Faith and an ego; for example, to be humble is to see one's one self as one really is.

O,and the greatest of all Commandments is to love you neighbor as your self.

There is a bit of a difference twixt Jesus and Mahomet.

Our Creator, Lord, Redeemer and Saviour, Jesus, is both God and man, King of Heaven and Earth, whereas Mahomet was a murdering psychotic pedophilic bigamist who liked to dress-up in women's clothing and drink Camel Urine with his milk but who is now in Hell (see Dante and The Last Judgement in the Sistine Chapel) suffering for all of eternity.

I will never put him on an equal basis with Jesus anymore than any man with any common sense would have put Mao, Stalin, or Hitler on the same level as his brother just because they were born of a woman.

If Mahomet was a prophet, I am the flying spaghetti monster and the BEST thing we Christians can do is to mock that psychotic lunatic and be armed to the teeth to defend ourselves against men like you

TAREK said...

Hi again Mr. FallonB!
The key note on which you are finishing with this conversation is alarming. Alarming because all you have been asking to do; you have just turned around and did just the contrary. Calling Dr. David a liar is indeed and insult but.
I would kindly tell you that you have just given you soul to a god (Allah) you do not know. Please think very well of your action today. Dr. David did all he could to rescue you but you seem to be rejecting flatly his help. Dinying the truth will only take you to hell. You have the ticket for that journey already, please think very well before it is too late.
Thank you and MAY YAHWEH NOT allah help you find your the way back.
You are looking for love but allah does not have nay love according to the quran.
GOD BLESS

gabriella oak said...

FB,

You are not asking for "peace and respect", you are asking for unreasonable accommodation for your manufactured sensitivities.

You are a ridiculous fraud masquerading as a delicate petal.

smalltallest88 said...

@Fallon B
"Jesus, to us, is known as the Word of God."

According to you, Jesus is the word of God. Good you know that, but it will bee awsome if you now start believing that the word of God is God.

You claimed you are an ex Christian. I love that but I want to know why you convert from bing a Christian to a muslim? Am sure your reason won't be that you found salvation in Islam. Rather it will b for some selfish reason or reason that you don't know who Jesus is because I believe if you know who Jesus is, you won't dare convert. Jesus warn us against prophet like Muhamd that will come as a true prophet but in reality ar fake.