Sunday, August 31, 2014

Does Jesus Command His Followers to Kill People in Luke 19:27?

Following the example set by some of their top apologists, many Muslims are trying to deflect attention away from jihad by claiming that Jesus commanded his followers to slaughter his enemies in Luke 19:27. Here's an example from today, along with my response:

Here's the parable Jesus tells, beginning at verse 11 for context:
11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12 He said: “A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas. ‘Put this money to work,’ he said, ‘until I come back.’

14 “But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, ‘We don’t want this man to be our king.’

15 “He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.

16 “The first one came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned ten more.’

17 “‘Well done, my good servant!’ his master replied. ‘Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.’

18 “The second came and said, ‘Sir, your mina has earned five more.’

19 “His master answered, ‘You take charge of five cities.’

20 “Then another servant came and said, ‘Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21 I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.’

22 “His master replied, ‘I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’

24 “Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’

25 “‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’

26 “He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”
Of course, this parable obviously has something to do with Jesus. But that simply proves the point. Jesus is about to die and ascend to the Father. Jesus' return will be the final judgment, and Jesus tells us elsewhere that the angels will carry out his commands to execute judgment (see Matthew 13:41-43). So Luke 19:27, in its immediate context, is part of a story that has nothing to do with Jesus' disciples killing anyone. And even when it is interpreted as referring to the final judgment, the passage still has nothing to do with the disciples killing anyone, because "those standing by" are angels sent for judgment.

All deception by Muslim apologists aside, what does Jesus actually commands his followers to do? Here's the answer in Matthew 5:43-48:
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.


Unknown said...

Well, it is the normal thing for the devil and his followers to take one verse from the Bible and twist around. As David explained, this verse is a part of a parable. Anyway, I am glad that some start to read the Bible to find mistakes in it. This is a good sign. Most people did this found the truth and became Christians. God bless you David. I am praying for you safety. God bless.

D335 said...

I know that David has a very long list on how islamic apologetics evade the real question with fallacies.
But I believe that David also has a long list on how islamic apologetic dares to manipulate the facts. Here a few:
1. using a parable and disregarding context using it as literal commandment.
2. pointing in non-prophetic bible characters,... i.e. Look at the Porns in the bible, prophet Lot slept with his own daughters.
3. identifying biblical slavery the same with any other slavery especially in early american history.

4. I have about dozens more... but yeah some I did get from Jesus vs Muhammad, so...

Devotee of Christ said...

Dear Bro David and team,

A lot of Muslims are turning to the following videos made by Shabir Ally to argue that ISIS is not authentic islam and that there's is no obligation for muslim youth to wage jihad in support


Can you and your team please do an analysis of the first video and let us know if Shabir is accurate?

I'm not sure about the second video. He may be wrong, but at least he's discouraging muslim youth from travelling to irag/syria.

Unknown said...

+Islamic Fundamentalist U say "You seem to think its ok to quote the Quran out of context"
There is no context in the Quran. It has no chronology. Apart from the fleeting mention of the Jews in their holy land Israel, there is no historicity either!
Your Allah is incapable of referring to himself in the authoritative 1st person. The Q is nothing but a bunch of mainly repetitive verses in no particular order.
This means that the Q can only be interpreted literally. So I guess you and your fellow muslims are compelled to read your book as is. This situation is very dangerous. Hence the birth of Islamic fundamentalism. Particularly ISIS. They are good practising Muslims and do exactly what their Quran teaches them. If your chummies dare criticise them then then you are not a good practising Muslim.
But then on reading YOUR post and judging by your nom de plume, this makes you a good practising Muslim.
It's people like you who deliberately corrupt the meaning of the scriptures that make us weary of you and the violent nature of Islam.

taomeano said...

Typical moslem, always taking things out of context. Sometimes I wonder if moslems who argue like this are either ignorant of what a context means or they are just plain stuck on stupid ?

This is mind boggling because indeed you would want to engage moslems in a meaningful discussion worthy of your time and energy but the level of self-deception displayed by moslems like this "Islam fundamentalist" guy is astronomical.

Once again the "father of lies" has gotten this moslem convinced of his stupid argument, pathetic indeed. Our LORD JESUS CHRIST will not tell us to love our enemies and then command us to kill our enemies. May God cure this moslem guy of his self-deception.

TAREK said...

Hello Dr. David!
Muslims cannot defend what is going on with IS and other islamist so they are looking for something similar in christianity in order to justify their poor immoral actions. By doing so they are just comfirming to us the truth to us that whatsoever they are doing it comes directly from the quran or hadeeths.
GOD BLESS you Dr. David

Dacritic said...

David, I'm very interested to know what did "Islamic Fundamentalist" reply to you, if he did. I'm always interested to know how someone who has been utterly shamed and exposed reply. Or maybe they just go into hiding to surface at another time on another day. Let's talk about context. One of Jesus' final utterances on the cross, is a prayer to the Father to "forgive them, for they know not what they do." Even Warren Buffett makes an interesting reference to this quote to explain the stock market. But some of these apologetic Muslims DO know what they are doing by twisting the Word of God. Bruce, you mentioned the Quran has no context. Let me help you with something funny you can use next time the Muslim asks us about context. We all know Surah At Taubah, or Surah 9, is one of the final chapters of the Quran CHRONOLOGICALLY. In there, Muhammad uttered all the violence against Jews and Christians. That's "context".

Christlike said...

Some times i simply get frustrated how deceptive and ignorant islamic apologists parrot verses from the Bible and display their ignorance. Even when you correct them, they behave as if have not heard you and still go on repeating same thing over and over. Its clear that most of their defense isn't original.

Anonymous said...

Today’s Muslims will also often use the arguments invented by atheists e.g. the distortion of the scriptures concerning God’s judgement on the Canaanites and others. But atheist arguments don’t take into account that the Canaanites etc. would never be tolerated in today’s society. The problem with today’s Bible critics and skeptics is that they falsely assume that those past societies were generally the same as us in their overall attitude and behaviour. But, as we can plainly see recorded in the Scriptures, they most certainly were not

And many of these Bible critics/skeptics would be the first to jump up and down in protest (even more so if it were to directly affect them and their immediate family) if the judge failed to pass sentence on anyone who committed only a fraction of the awful things that were perpetrated by whole societies (“the detestable things of those nations”) in the Old Testament. And yet they criticise God for passing sentence on these evil societies which knowingly and wilfully provoked God to His face with their crimes/sins (Genesis 13:13).

But pass sentence He does.

“When the Lord your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you, and when the Lord your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favour to them” Deuteronomy 7:1-2,

“Only in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes. But you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the Lord your God has commanded you” Deuteronomy 20:16-17

They [Israel] utterly destroyed everything in the city [Jericho], both man and woman, young and old, and ox and sheep and donkey, with the edge of the sword. Joshua 6:21

“Now go and strike Amalek and utterly destroy all that he has, and do not spare him; but put to death both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey." 1 Samuel 15:3

Again this had nothing to do with that lying, deceitful, false prophet and criminal, Muhammad, who only came along hundreds of years after these events were over and done with.

JeSuisCharlie said...

David, in regard to answering the Muslim accusation of 'violence' they might claim is present here, you have omitted an important point about this statement by Yeshua.

The statement is as follows:
27"But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence."

The key words are "bring them here" and more importantly "in my presence".

"bring them here"

Where was Jesus when he spoke these words?
The slayers would have to find the house of Zaccheus or the place before the house whereupon he spoke.

"in my presence"

This can never be interpreted (or misinterpreted) as a call to violence unless it is done IN THE PRESENCE of Jesus Christ.

Therefore, for humans to kill enemies of Jesus they would have to not only find the house of Zaccheus or the place before the house whereupon he spoke but hope that Jesus would be there at the same time and remain present while they did the killing.

Now I asked a Muslim to find such passages in the teachings of Christ which could be interpreted as violent and this is the only one he came up with.

Unknown said...

why dont you accept the truth. the verse is written very clear in your bible

Unknown said...

For a time in His ministry, Jesus relied heavily on parables. He told many of them; in fact, according to Mark 4:34a, “He did not say anything to them without using a parable.” There are about 35 of Jesus’ parables recorded in the Synoptic Gospels.

It had not always been that way. In the early part of His ministry, Jesus had not used parables. Suddenly, He begins telling parables exclusively, much to the surprise of His disciples, who asked Him, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” (Matthew 13:10).

Jesus explained that His use of parables had a two-fold purpose: to reveal the truth to those who wanted to know it and to conceal the truth from those who were indifferent. In the previous chapter (Matthew 12), the Pharisees had publicly rejected their Messiah and blasphemed the Holy Spirit, thus committing the unpardonable sin (Matthew 12:22–32). They fulfilled Isaiah’s prophecy of a hardhearted, spiritually blind people (Isaiah 6:9–10). Jesus’ response was to begin teaching in parables. Those who, like the Pharisees, had a preconceived bias against the Lord’s teaching would dismiss the parables as irrelevant nonsense. However, those who truly sought the truth would understand.

Jesus made sure His disciples understood the meaning of the parables: “When he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything” (Mark 4:34b).

Interpreting a parable can present some challenges for the student of the Bible. Sometimes, interpretation is easy because the Lord Himself gave the interpretation—the Parable of the Sower and the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares are both explained in Matthew 13. Here are some principles that help in interpreting the other parables:

1) Determine the scope of the spiritual truth being presented. Sometimes, a parable is preceded by some introductory words that provide a context. For example, often Jesus preceded a parable with the words “this is what the kingdom of heaven is like” (7 times in Matthew 13 alone). Also, before the Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, we read this: “To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable” (Luke 18:9). This introduction delineates the subject matter being illustrated (self-righteousness and spiritual pride).

2) Distinguish between the “meat” of the story and what is just ornamentation. In other words, not every detail of a parable carries a deep spiritual meaning. Some details are simply there to help the story seem more realistic. For example, in Jesus’ own interpretation of the Parable of the Sower, He does not comment on the fact that there are four (and only four) different types of soil. That detail was meaningless to the overall point Jesus was making.

3) Compare Scripture with Scripture. This basic principle of hermeneutics is invaluable when studying parables. Jesus’ parables will never contradict the rest of the Word of God, which He came to express (John 12:49). The parables are meant to illustrate doctrine, and the teachings Jesus illuminated are found clearly taught elsewhere in the Bible.

There are parables in the Bible other than those found in the Gospels. The book of Proverbs is full of analogies—whenever Solomon used a comparison to teach a truth, especially in emblematic parallelism, the result was a simple parable. For example, Proverbs 20:2 says, “A king’s wrath strikes terror like the roar of a lion.” The roaring of a lion is “cast alongside” the wrath of a king for the purpose of comparison. That is the essence of parabolic language.

After telling some of His parables, Jesus said, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear” (Mark 4:9, 23). This was a call to listen to the parables, not just as one would listen to an ordinary story but as one who is seeking the truth of God. May God grant us all ears to truly “hear."

I hope and Pray that you have Ears to Hear and May God Bless you in your search for The Truth!