Monday, July 28, 2014

Pakistan: Muslim Mob Kills Woman and Girls for Blasphemous Facebook Post

Here in the West, Ahmadis are some of the most vocal defenders of Islam. They are also quick to label critics of Islam "bigots" and "Islamophobes." And yet Ahmadis are viciously persecuted by Muslims in Pakistan and Indonesia. Thus, they are defending the ideology that oppresses them.

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - A Pakistani mob killed a woman member of a religious sect and two of her granddaughters after a sect member was accused of posting blasphemous material on Facebook, police said Monday, the latest instance of growing violence against minorities. 

The dead, including a seven-year-old girl and her baby sister, were Ahmadis, who consider themselves Muslim but believe in a prophet after Mohammed. A 1984 Pakistani law declared them non-Muslims and many Pakistanis consider them heretics.

Police said the late Sunday violence in the town of Gujranwala, 220 km (140 miles) southeast of the capital, Islamabad, started with an altercation between young men, one of whom was an Ahmadi accused of posting "objectionable material".

"Later, a crowd of 150 people came to the police station demanding the registration of a blasphemy case against the accused," said one police officer who declined to be identified.

"As police were negotiating with the crowd, another mob attacked and started burning the houses of Ahmadis."

The youth accused of making the Facebook post had not been injured, he said.

Under Pakistani law, Ahmadis are banned from using Muslim greetings, saying Muslim prayers or referring to his place of worship as a mosque.

Salim ud Din, a spokesman for the Ahmadi community, said it was the worst attack on the community since simultaneous attacks on Ahmadi places of worship killed 86 Ahmadis four years ago.

"Police were there but just watching the burning. They didn't do anything to stop the mob," he said. "First they looted their homes and shops and then they burnt the homes." (Continue Reading.)



I'm a Christian and have a question for anyone who's willing to answer.

Clearly the Qur'an teaches that no human can alter God's Word (6:115 etc.) and that the Christian Bible is God's Word (5:47 etc.). But a Muslim could argue that the Qur'an's promise that no one can change God's Word is about how no HUMAN can change it. Why can't a Muslim claim that God himself changed and corrupted the Christian Bible? Or even allowed humans to corrupt it?

It's not a logical contradiction to say 1. that humans, OF THEMSELVES, cannot corrupt the Bible, and 2. God ALLOWED humans to corrupt the Bible as a punishment for their (i.e. Jewish and Christian) unfaithfulness and sin (along with whatever other purposes God had; e.g. to provide the final/last and only reliable revelation in the Qur'an). It would seem that we need a Qur'anic passage(s) that says that even Allah HIMSELF cannot, or at least will not, change any of his (previously) written revelation.

One way around that is to point out that we have Biblical manuscripts before, during and after the time of Muhammad which have survived down to the present time that are consistent with each other and yet contradict the Qur'an. Thus proving preservation. However, Muslims could still argue that the historical and scientific evidence for the antiquity and purity of those manuscripts isn't certain. Not as certain as the Word of God (which they take to be the Qur'an).

So, a Qur'anic passage stating (explicitly or implicitly) that Allah would not change or corrupt his own revelation would still be useful.

BTW, it seems to me that if Muslims are willing to admit that Allah could allow previous inspired written revelation to be corrupted because of unfaithfulness, then they have no certainty that the Qur'an hasn't been corrupted due to unfaithfulness on the part of Muslims as the latest people of God. In fact, Muslims disagree among themselves regarding core doctrines of Islam.

Then there are the problems with 1. the Satanic Verses incident; 2. the fact that there were different versions of the Qur'an during Uthman's time after Muhammad's death; 3. and that there are surviving textual variants of the Qur'an to this day.

David Wood said...

Not sure what this has to do with Ahmadis being burned to death.

Apostolicfdn said...

I cannot believe this. A post on Facebook no matter what it is should never, and I mean never bring the punishment of death. I know if someone made a blasphemous post about Jesus, I as a Christian would forgive that person as that is what Jesus taught us to do. Jesus is the final judge and he will judge perfectly. I think that we as Christians will allow Christ to judge and not take the judgement into our own hands.Jesus said let him who has no sin cast the first stone.The persecutions of Christians has been a big problem in Pakistan. I did not know that the Ahmadis were also being persecuted. I grew up in Pakistan as a Christian and believe me it was not easy.I did experience persecution when I lived there,and I was so glad and happy when we found out that we were leaving Pakistan behind. I know what will change all of these problems. The same love that Our God Jesus showed to us, when he chose to die for the sins of all mankind. It says in the Bible that we are bought with a price. If you can only imagine where Jesus left from and where he came because he loved us. Jesus loved us first and we loved him back. He was whipped for our iniquity and crucified for our transgressions. I just want to say that these senseless killings of little children need to stop. Think love and not judgement. Leave the judgement in Jesus Christ's hands.

Unknown said...

Islam is the most intolerant religion ever presented to mankind.

Unless Ahmadis recognize this fact they will always be confused and never understand why they are being so viciously persecuted.

The fact is, they are being persecuted by the TRUE and therefore intolerant Muslims.

christ follower said...

I was going last night dropping of some guests near to manchester town centre . The Muslim people were celebrating there Eid after Ramadan. They were playing music, religion hims, distrubing traffic, distrubing local people sleep without any fear or any problems. Police was there and doing any thing. I was thinking these people might moved to u.k 40-50years ago. They are injoying there all occasions and living freely here like as local British people. We Christians from Pakistan born and bred there. Have same asian features like Muslim but being Christian treating as third class citizens In my own country . Even in uk after white people pakistani origin people are second biggest community in u.k.But they never approach there there politican, religious leader and to local people in back home to treat none Muslims equal and gives there rights as they are injoying here in Britain. They never condom there people when they kill or burn our churches in back home. I feel said when I see Muslims are injoying there life in Christians countries all over the world . We Christians are suffering in our own land where we were born and bred.we were kept as poor deliberately back home so we would not get propet education,jobs, business. Our people don't know what there rights are. In here my muslim brought there families and families because most of them had money education , they have got relative as lawyers. So they new how to get in west, how to use West ignorous to word islam and use there humanity laws to get settled in west. I am praying to God for safety of Christian people those are living under Muslims governments. Because western world is not doing any thing for us . Because politican are not bother what is Christianity about,local young people's not follow the religion so they don't care what jesus teaching is about. I havr lots white friends yhry don't care what religion about is so they don't bother where I am Christian, muslim or any body. They don't care weather we having all these suffering back home or or no voice for us . The fact is simple if they don't follow jesus and his teaching they why would they bother what's going on around the world.

Unknown said...

Being an ex-Ahmadi myself and then finding Christ in 2004 I can tell you why they do this. The power of Islam, Allah and his messenger is attached on the hearts and souls of these people. I have spent an enormous amount of time having dialogue with Ahmadis and other Muslims. Clearly pointing out the things in the Quran and Hadith that should not sit well with any rational God fearing human being. They refuse to accept what is written in black and white. They hold the prophet greater than Allah at times. As a child I would "swear to God" or occasionally use the inappropriate verbiage of "God D%#*+" when angered. Well that was not such a big deal, but try doing that with Mohammads name in a Muslim home or around Muslims and I guarantee you it won't be pretty. In some ways they have placed Mohammad above God and are willing to hurt or kill for him. It's pure and utter insanity and what's sad is Ahmadis are subject to Muslim torment first hand, yet they will not accept the roots of this torment and behavior. They can't, it's clung on to their hearts and souls as well and we just have to pray.

@David Wood, you know as well as I do there's forces behind this that are well beyond our understanding. It's very challenging to witness, sometimes I almost feel like giving up when I have I testify to the truth I front of my family. The lost friendships, suffering I have experienced, it's insane. But in Jesus name we all MUST keep doing what we need to do.

Anonymous said...

Sadly the Ahamdis are the most ardent defenders of Islam, yet the majority of Muslims don't even see them as fellow Muslims.

It is like the Shite run Iran. Today Sunnis are murdering them in the thousands around the world and the Shia leadership only cares about what Israel is doing.

Pure insanity.

Balancedobsession said...

Qur'an is not corrupt. Allah is not corrupt. Islam is perfect people are not. Ahmadis are persecuted because of their differences, just as Christians, and other minorities are persecuted in Pakistan. In the case of Hadiths vs Qur'an IF EVER there is a question than you would only refer to the Qur'an. Just as Christians in society use the Bible or "God" as a means to commit crimes that's how you can think of some of the muslims who commit crimes. People are good and bad everywhere.