Saturday, February 22, 2014

A Muslim Admits That Allah Prays

One of the most common Muslim objections to the deity of Christ is the question "If Jesus is God, why did he pray?" This question makes sense on a surface level, since Christians claim that Jesus is God and we also claim that he prays. But this is one of the many reasons we are Trinitarians, not unitarians. As one of the three persons of the Trinity, the Son was in eternal communion with the Father, because they shared the same essence. When the Son entered creation as Jesus of Nazareth, he continued that communion with the Father through prayer. Hence, while Jesus praying would be a problem for a unitarian who claims that Jesus is God, it makes perfect sense in light of Trinitarian theology.

But Muslims are unitarians, which means that they would have a huge problem if their god prays. And we find this problem in the Qur'an:

Qur'an 33:56—Verily, Allah and His angels pray for the prophet. O ye who believe! pray for him and salute him with a salutation!

Muslim translators are so horrified by the implications of this verse that they often mistranslate the relevant portion as "Allah and his angels send blessings on the prophet." The problem is that there are perfectly good Arabic words for "send blessings," but those words aren't used here. The Arabic word used of whatever Allah and his angels are doing is yusalloona, which is a verbal form of the word salah (prayer and worship). Thus, the most obvious translation involves Allah praying for Muhammad.

While this is clear to anyone who reads the verse and understands what yusalloona means, it's always nice to see an Arabic-speaking Muslim admit that Allah prays. This is precisely what happened today on Facebook.

A Muslim named Faruque Ikramul started a post mocking Christians for believing that Jesus is God when the Bible declares that Jesus prayed.

Instead of answering the objection, I decided to turn the tables:

Faruque apparently missed the quotation, so he asked for the reference:

After sharing the reference again, a Muslim named Avari jumped in with a common mistranslation:

Interestingly, after going back and reading the verse more carefully, Avari realized that the verse plainly says that Allah prays. Avari's only misunderstanding was that he somehow thought I was claiming that Allah prays to Muhammad (and therefore that Muhammad was Allah's god). But I was simply pointing out the obvious:

In the end, Avari simply admitted that Allah prays. And he didn't see any problem with this:

It's refreshing to see a Muslim happily acknowledge that Allah prays. But again, since Muslims are unitarians, why don't they see a problem here? Why don't they ask who Allah is praying to? And why do they continue to pester Christians with questions like "If Jesus is God, who was he praying to?" when the same may be asked of Allah (only in a far more devastating manner, because Muslims deny the Trinity)? Inquiring minds want to know.


Lord Brian said...

The Bible doesn't make much sense at all, but I'm glad you made your point. Keep up all of the good work David... It's good to see someone other than atheists standing up to Muslims.

Mark Chetkin said...

Awesome! With enough finess, you can get them to admit what they try so desperately to conceal. The issue then becomes that if they are aware of the implications, why do they continue to conceal and defend the deception?

Dacritic said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Cam avari said...

Sure whats the problem with it ?? who created all things, even prayers ?? you people really are something else I swear. feel free to watch my video responce to his deliberate attack and the fact he didn't post the rest of my post. If God created all things, isn't prayers part of all things ?? to suggest Allah is not the same Aramaic Jesus would say himself is blasphemy in itself. you don't even realize you say jesus is god, but he prayed as well. your point is pointless. peace be with you brother i truly mean that.

bob said...

Muslims will also often try to blend the meaning prayer and worship, but prayer by itself, as performed by Jesus is not in any sense worship, but was a means of petitioning/asking the Father for certain things during His temporary earthly servitude and also as an an example for us to follow in regards to how we should pray.

Dacritic said...

David, you might have come across this website If you haven't, you could probably guess who this website is referring to. However, the website also has a link to another page by the same author, I'm wondering if you would have time to go through that too and I would appreciate your comments!

bob said...

Lord Brian, you say,

"It's good to see someone other than atheists standing up to Muslims."

I don't think you atheists should go big noting yourselves or claiming too much credit, since, as explained below, you are actually a big part of the problem.

Atheism as a defence against Islam.

There are some who believe that the promotion of universal atheism by way of evolutionary indoctrination is a means by which Islam can be defeated.

Two points that refute this notion:

•Islam can permeate and influence every facet and level of a society, that is, socially and politically etc. It uses many other systems and means of conquest besides religious indoctrination; so what people don’t believe in is irrelevant.

•But the main reason that atheism is no defence, is that, because it denies God and Christ, it is actually part of the Antichrist itself and therefore cannot but help other elements of that system (which includes Islam), which it does in the following manner:

Wherever atheism abounds, Islam has easy entrance, since atheism (and evolutionary humanistic teaching) is actually holding the gate open by undermining or removing vital defensive knowledge (Scripture and word of Christ) and creating a largely ignorant, blind and defenceless population.

The Antichrist as a whole (called Babylon in Revelation) cannot and will not fight against itself.

“Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation… And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?” Mathew 12:25, 26

The following quote from Richard Dawkins:

“I have mixed feelings about the decline of Christianity, in so far as Christianity might be a bulwark against something worse.” The Times (UK), 2 April 2010

This, as I said at the start, is the reason that atheists are part of the problem, namely, that atheists have been and are actively contributing to the decline and downfall of Christianity and its basic principles which have in the past well proven to be the bulwark mentioned by Dawkins.

Dacritic said...

The real issue on this post isn't in Allah praying. The issue on this post is that Faruque uploaded a post "ha ha ha"-ing at Jesus praying to the Father. So in a sense, Faruque "started it". Christians have no problem with Jesus praying to the Father because of the Trinity, but since Faruque "ha ha ha"-ed at "God (the Son) praying to God (the Father)", he failed in the first place to recognize in his own Quran that his god also prayed, we assume, to himself. So he has no grounds to "ha ha ha" at Jesus.

Deleting said...

Cam said, 'Sure whats the problem with it ?? who created all things, even prayers ??'

Cam, the problem is if your god is a singular Unitarian being that is ONE person, then prayer is obsolete!!!
We are trinitarians, meaning the being that is god (whose name is YHWH and NOT Allah) is three distinct persons sharing that being. There is unity in the godhead so the son praying to the father is not an issue because the father in status is greater than all.
Go back to Islam for a second, your singular being and person of Allah has to pray? Pray to whom if he is all powerful and does what he wants?

' If God created all things, isn't prayers part of all things ??'
This is irrelevant to the verse to cited. The point is Allah has to offer prayers for Muhammad...TO WHO?

Is there a god above Allah? If so, you my friend, are violating your own book and committing blasphemy by worshipping Allah and not the true God.

Lord Brian said...


While I don't want to stray off topic, there are some things that Don't make PERFECT sense in the Bible in General, but that I can take up with David...

But there's one thing that DOESN'T make sense to me regarding Jesus praying.

Here, David says that God and Jesus are of the same essence - fair enough...

But then, if they share the same essence, why doesn't Jesus know when the second coming is? I know David and Sam spoke about this on Jesus or Muhammad, but I can't remember which episode it was...

In any case, while the Bible doesn't make that much sense to me, it makes far more sense than the Qur'an, as this article proves. Makes me want to be an apologetic too sometimes...

bob said...

"Makes me want to be an apologetic too sometimes..."

Well you could start by undoing some of the many distortions of the Scriptures invented and promoted by atheists which Muslims have latched onto and are using against Christianity. That would be nice.

Deleting said...

"But then, if they share the same essence, why doesn't Jesus know when the second coming is?"

Acts 1:7. He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.

There is still a hierarchy within the being that is God. In order it shows The father is first, the second is the son and third is the holy spirit. There is no contradiction here, if anything your question is your answer. Jesus is not first in the Godhead, he is second and subserivent to the father as is the spirit.

John 8:24 said...

@Cam avari

Your comments reveal that you are not the brightest bulb in the box. Isn't it? But I am not sure you are smart enough to see that. By the way, kudos to David who has to put up with people who have an IQ of a room temperature!

Ok, Cam avari, it is clear that you don't seem to get it (or maybe don't want to get it because of your pride and arrogance) in spite of the argument put forward is very simple and basic. Why don't you simply answer the following questions and do a favor to yourself and other Muslims out there:

1) Since you accepted that Allah prayed, whom did Allah pray to?

2) Since your Muslim friend was suggesting that Jesus prayed like a Muslim with his face down: Now tell me what posture Allah used while praying? Did he also bow and fell on his face to pray? To whom was Allah bowing to?

John 8:24 said...

@Cam avari

By the way, your reasoning that Allah created prayers is totally irrelevant. The point is Allah of Islam prayed to someone and bowed to someone or Allah prayed to himself and bowed to himself. If he prayed to someone then that someone is greater than Allah! If he prayed to himself and bowed to himself then it is rather stupid of him (to say the least). But Jesus does not have problem when he prays because he is praying to His Father. Christian theology has no problem with Jesus praying - it part of Christian doctrine for hundreds of years before Islam! And Christians do not have a problem that Jesus, who became a man and left his glory that he shared with his Father, fell on his face to pray to his Father. It is an imaginary problem created by some ignorant Muslims (it is an imaginary gotcha!). On the other hand Allah praying is a real problem for Islamic theology and for Muslims. You just can't escape it.

John 8:24 said...

And what do you actually mean by Allah "created prayers"? Do you mean that he created the way the Muslims pray? The five time a day prayers based on the sun already existed in Zoroastrianism for centuries before Islam. They called it Gah prayer. The five prayers are called Havaan, Rapithwan, Uziren, Aiwisuthrem and Ushaen in Zoroastrianism. They correspond to Fajr, Zuhar, Asr, Maghrib and Isha in Islam.

They even had to face a particular direction, had a call to prayer, had to wash themselves and cover their head! Does not seem very creative of Allah of Islam to copy stuff from other religions. Does it?

Herakleios said...

It is sad to see how blind a Person can be.
Cam Avari - if Allah prays for Mohammed ... then to WHOM goes this prays? You always pray TO someone FOR someone.
For example, i could pray TO God FOR the health of my Family.

So Allah prays TO ????? FOR Mohammed ?

hugh watt said...


.."why doesn't Jesus know when the second coming is?"

When He came from Heaven to Earth He had humbled Himself as a servant, laid aside His Majesty and became dependent upon the Holy Spirit to carry out His mission which is a blueprint for Christians to follow.

As Adam was a sinless man who blew Paradise Christ came in a sinless form to regain it (for all who believe), through His sacrifice at Calvary.

Philippians 2 details this and John 17:5 says before He went to the cross Jesus asked His Father for the glory which He had before the foundation of the world to be returned to Him.

So when Jesus said He did not know when He was coming back, you need to apply the tenses: Yesterday I did, today I do, tomorrow I will do.

hugh watt said...


Do you not see that Allah praying to someone else would be shirk?

If Allah created sleep would you say Allah sleeps? How about other human functions, e.g, sex?

Deleting said...

'If Allah created sleep would you say Allah sleeps? How about other human functions, e.g, sex?'

Or pooping. Allah created that too yet he'll 'pray' to something that is greater than he is though he created it (which explains a lot of his vows) but he won't go potty, something he probably needs to do because he's SO full of sh**.

Cam, either you don't understand what prayer is or you know understand the relationship between a creator and his creation and that's sad.

Tom said...

The "debate" continued with the present day deceiver, "nathan lean",
The huge difference bewteen nathan lean and cam avari, was he, cam avari was asked to read it in arabic and he saw & agreed, But when the so called muslim "scholars" read it they know this is a "screw up" hence their manipulation of their word!

Previously when Christian's debate a muslim using their koran and they get caught out they will say But "you must read it in arabic" and now we use the arabic they use the translation... :)
muslims, you have a perfectly twisted, incoherent, adulterated, perverted, plagiarised, "book"!

TPaul said...

Can, you don't seem to comprehend the concept of prayer, and you make a ridiculous statement like that saying that it is OK for Allah to pray. Praying requires one to appeal to a higher authority. So our question tho Muslims is when Allah decides trio pray for his favorite prophet, who is the higher authority he is appealing to?

RG said...

About a year ago I decided to acquaint myself with the Koran. It amused me and nauseated me all at the same time.

The one thing that really struck me as totally weird was that, I had barely read for 5 minutes when I started noticing that allah continuously refers to himself in the plural context. "We", "us", etc, etc.

"We"? "us"? Shoot, that sounds pretty trinitarian to me! In the Bible, in Genesis, Elohim says, "Let US make man in our own image." Gee, I just have to wonder, ya don't s'pose mo was reading his Bible when he decided to distort his own version of it??? Hmmmm!!!!

So there it is, right under their noses--their own 'false' prophet refers to his 'unitarian' god in the plural form. Proof positive that the koran is a vile deception and a fraud!!!!!

Truth be told, mohammed distorted and plagiarized everything he wrote in the koran. Most of it comes directly from the Bible, a distorted product of mohammed's demented, demonic imaginations.

RG said...

Your blogger is messed up! I submitted my comment prior to creating an account--there was no warning to the contrary! Now my comment has been erased! Ya think you could post a warning (or figure out a way to save the comment--w/o deleting it?????

RG said...

I stand corrected. My comment was not erased. My bad!!!

David Wood said...

Yeah, I'll post a giant warning saying: "YOU MUST HAVE A BLOGGER ACCOUNT TO COMMENT ON BLOGGER." Should I put this warning where the "Answering Muslims" banner is?

RG said...

My bad! My comment wasn't lost. I didn't read the part telling me that my comment had been saved, pending approval. Thanks for answering back though!

If you post a warning, I suppose it couldn't hurt to tell guys like me to keep their shirt on! Oops!!!

Umm Yusuf said...

Greetings all,

I stumbled across this blog while I was searching for something else completely. I thought I would offer some insight into the apparent dilemma that the verse you have pointed out poses.

I begin in Allah's name and I ask the He allows me to do justice in answering.

The first thing I need to make clear is that the Qur'an was revealed in the Arabic language. This is made clear in this verse "We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an so you people may understand / use reason" (12:2):
So those who adhere to Islam learn Arabic to lesser or greater degrees in order to understand the true message from the Creator.

The word Qur'an means recitation because it was revealed and recited not created.

Arabic is a very intricate language and meanings are conveyed through the forms the words take and the context.

Arabic works on root words usually comprising of 3 letters from which concepts can be formed using different morphology. All Arabic letters are made up of consonants and vowels are added either on top of or underneath the letter.

Using prefix and suffix determines the tense, gender and form (1st, 2nd or 3rd person)to convey meaning.

Allah says "yusalloona" (transliteration of the Arabic)which looks like a word but is actually a sentence. The root word is three letters Waw Swad Lam and means to connect, arrive, unite, link, contact, when broken down the sentence means "They(masculine plural)send greetings" the verse that you quotes says what means " Allah and the Angles all send their greetings to the Prophet" Not prays for.

So essentially Allah conveyed in Arabic using one word what is conveyed in English in 3 or more.

Unfortunately the interpretation of the Qur'an in English that you quoted did not make this clear and in turn caused unnecessary confusion.

Salaat which is the ritual form of worship that we Muslims perform does not mean praying it means connecting. We are connecting with our Creator and sustainer a minimum of five times a day and we are closest to Him in prostration because this is the most humble position one can assume. Which is what Jesus (peace be upon Him) did.

Prayer or supplication is called dua which can be done sitting standing, walking laying down and can be done liberally during ones day.

Allah says what means; Who remember Allah while standing or sitting or [lying] on their sides and give thought to the creation of the heavens and the earth, [saying], "Our Lord, You did not create this aimlessly; exalted are You [above such a thing]; then protect us from the punishment of the Fire. 3:191

I kindly urge any of my Muslim brothers and sisters not to answer questions regarding the Words of Allah if they do not have any knowledge on the subject they are being questioned.

Please let us all be respectful of each others practices and aim to discover the truth not just to be proven right as we are all seeking to please our Creator. Peoples hearts change and what we believe today might change tomorrow we do not want to be the cause of pushing people away from the path of God.

Umm Yusuf

Herakleios said...

So why is it called 5 prayers a das? Are all the arabic speaking Muslims misguiding the English speaking Muslims? Should it be called "get in contact with god 5 times a day" ... Or maybe "say hello to god 5 times a day"? Umm Yusuf, you are basicly saying, that Muslims don't worship god with prayers?

Deleting said...

Umm Yusuf said in his diatribe 'Allah says "yusalloona" (transliteration of the Arabic)which looks like a word but is actually a sentence. The root word is three letters Waw Swad Lam and means to connect, arrive, unite, link, contact, when broken down the sentence means "They(masculine plural)send greetings" the verse that you quotes says what means " Allah and the Angles all send their greetings to the Prophet" Not prays for. '

Liar. That's not what it means at all. By the way, Arabic is another language and like all languages it can be translated into English. All the nuances may not copy over but the context is what's important and in every single instance where it appears in the Koran it means 'to pray' and not 'greet'.

Deleting said...

'I kindly urge any of my Muslim brothers and sisters not to answer questions regarding the Words of Allah if they do not have any knowledge on the subject they are being questioned.'

You mean they should do a better job lying to other people, like you did.

It is not hard to figure out context umm or look up root words and see how those words are being used. Your whole post was deceitful and offensive.
Shame on you, your religion and your ummah who taught you to lie like this(and to do it so poorly I might add).

Deleting said...

'Please let us all be respectful of each others practices and aim to discover the truth not just to be proven right as we are all seeking to please our Creator'

Yet you don't like reading do you, because the Muslims this post was about denigrated OUR creator (and yours) and disrespected our religion because YOUR religion says to do so.

Liar AND you're not that bright.

Umm Yusuf said...

I begin in Allahs name,

The beauty of Arabic is that one word can convey many different levels of meaning.

The misconception stems from the level of the individuals own understanding; it can only be considered deception if its intentional. Prayer seems like the only fitting word because its a form of worship and because of years of conditioning people are more ready to accept.

I am not a native Arab, and also thought salaat was akin to prayer until I took a more active approach to reading the Qur'an myself for understanding and guidance.
Allah says what means ....Allah will not change a condition of a person until they change what is inside themselves ... 13:11. Islam demands that one uses their reasoning; the responsibility is on every individual to seek their own understanding to gain a personal working relationship with their Creator. The initial stage however is to have the correct intention.

This is as much as knowledge and understanding will penetrate. We have to examine our selves first, what are our motives, what are we driven by, what do we want?
We will only receive what we are willing to.

Knowledge is of two kinds, External (Zahir) & internal (Batin) these two are also attributes of Allah. Everyone will gain knowledge and understanding based on their own capacity to digest it. See the story of Khidr in Surah Al Kahf of the Qur'an.
Knowledge is a Divine gift, this is what seperates humans from other creatures; arriving at understanding through reason. We have to let go of our egos as it is an obstruction to our spiritual growth.
See Tasawwuf (purification of the soul).

Deleting, while your post hurt my feelings I accept that we will not all see eye to eye but I sincerely offered my understanding to help to bring light to the issue.

And while I am a person and you can insult me it is not wise to insult Allah, nor have I insulted what you worship besides Him.

I am a female by the way, and it is not easy to translate languages do not translate word for word. If I said anything to offend you I regret that and apologise. I am content that my intention was a correct and I was not lying.

I did not read all the comments because I expected there to be much hate and wished not to be affected my negativity. I seek refuge in Allah from it and pray that my efforts will be seen by Him.

Kind greetings
Umm Yusuf

Herakleios said...

@Umm Yusuf:

I dont speak arabic, but i did learn hebrew, so i am familiar with the semitic languages and know a Little bit about how the System with roots etc. work.

So you are saying, that sad lam waw means connect and not prayer?

The verbal form is 12 times in the Quran. Lets see how the passages translate (sahih international):

3:39 So the angels called him while he was standing in prayer in the chamber,

4:102 And when you are among them and lead them in prayer, let a group of them stand [in prayer] with you and let them carry their arms. And when they have prostrated, let them be [in position] behind you and have the other group come forward which has not [yet] prayed and let them pray with you, taking precaution and carrying their arms. Those who disbelieve wish that you would neglect your weapons and your baggage so they could come down upon you in one [single] attack. But there is no blame upon you, if you are troubled by rain or are ill, for putting down your arms, but take precaution. Indeed, Allah has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.

9:84 And do not pray [the funeral prayer, O Muhammad], over any of them who has died - ever - or stand at his grave. Indeed, they disbelieved in Allah and His Messenger and died while they were defiantly disobedient.

9:103 Take, [O, Muhammad], from their wealth a charity by which you purify them and cause them increase, and invoke [ Allah 's blessings] upon them. Indeed, your invocations are reassurance for them. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

the other parts are 33:43, 33:56, 75:31, 87:15, 96:10, 108:2

Sahih International always translates "pray" when a human does it and translates "sends Blessings" when Allah does it. Seems to be strange - same word, different meaning. Realy strange!

For me it sounds like the Translation wants to get around the Problem and just changes prayer to send Blessings, whenever Allah is doing it.

IF the word would not mean pray, but always send Blessings - does this one make any sense?

75:31 And the disbeliever had not believed, nor had he prayed (send Blessings).

Especially if the Quran wants to be clear it is very disturbing, if one word changes its meaning all the time.
And btw. "get in Connection with god" - doesnt that describe in a way what prayer means?
The noun that is derived from the same root almost always (like 99%) translates as Prayer - even in Sahih International!

Abdelrahman M. Alhajj said...

The Quran's contains some words that has multiple meaning. in English there are tons of tons of words that have multiple meaning of different situations and times.
what Pray means here is "greet" we Muslims don't pray for Muhammad, but it mentions "You believers, pray for Muhammad" we don't get to floor and worshipping him, we just greet and salute him. Man, you are unbelievably desperate to stand a point. poor man.

Umm Yusuf said...

I begin in Allahs name,

@ Herakleios I empathise with your fustration and it is absolutely natural to have these questions. It is not by accident because it arouses ones interest. An attribute of Allah is Al Lateef, which roughly translates to The Gentle One; who saves you in the subtlest of ways such that you didn't even know you were in danger.

What I love about Islam is that we can know Allah not by Him reducing Himself, but by us raising ourselves. An omnipotent being is free of need and therefore needs not pray, so the context is quiet clear. The inner conflict to understand is a natural reaction of a reasoning heart. Arabic is the most precise language to convey this message in the most intricate and personal and meaningful way that one is left in awe. To such an extent that the pagan Arabs of Makkah would accept the message of the Qur'an upon hearing just one verse. Such is the miracle of the Qur'an.

Salaat was enjoined upon Muslims during a miraculous night journey (see surah Isra ayat 1) where the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wa salaam) was transported from Makkah to Jerusalem and then up into the heavens (7 in number see surah Mulk ayat 3) to the presence of the Creator where he was commanded to offer worship 5 times a day by doing ritual that involves, standing, bowing and prostrating and sitting with recitation of the Qur'an.

The Prophet (S.A.W) said the salaat is the ascension of every faithful one (mu'min).
We repeat the conversation between Allah and His messenger called the tashahud in the sitting position. Which in itself is awesome; when do any of us in life get the chance to sit with kings or high ranking officials or even celebrities? We must dress in our best clothes and have explicit permission. Allah only asks that you bring a sound heart and we get an audience 5 times a day! :D The beauty and simplicity is overwhelming. Remove your shoes, be comfortable in Allahs presence and communicate your troubles its the most natural thing. Alhamdulillah (All praises are for Allah)

If you are still in doubt then don't take my word for it. Find out for yourself. Allah says what means;

Sahih International "And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided. " 2:186

May the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth guide and protect His faithful ones!

Umm Yusuf

Herakleios said...


What are you talking about? You dont seem to have any understanding of the word "pray".

When you say: "You believers, pray for Muhammad" ... you dont worship him! Nobody ever said that! BUT you also dont greet HIM!

When you pray for Mohammed you will say (in your mind) something like "Oh God, please take care of his Soul and do good to him ... "
So you pray TO!!! God FOR!!! Mohammed. This Point None of the muslims seems to realise.
So when Allah prays FOR Mohammed, he has to pray TO!!! some higher being!

When Allah prays for Mohammed, what would his words be like? "Oh Allah take care of Mohammeds Soul"?! Is he talking to himself then? That wouldnt make any sense. Praying always involves the "speaking" to some higher being. So when Allah is praying, he is directing his words to a higher authority. Thats the Point! Nobody ever said that Muslims worship Mohammed.

Btw. what is the Problem of Jesus praying, if Allah does the same? It is a typical objection of muslims about christianity!

Deleting said...

'I am a female by the way, and it is not easy to translate languages do not translate word for word. If I said anything to offend you I regret that and apologise. I am content that my intention was a correct and I was not lying.'

Your gender is irrelevant to anything regarding this conversation. I'm a female too.
As far as translating is concerned your gender is still irrelevant. Your methodology is flawed when you open with sweeping statements of arabic's preciseness and intimaticy and them within the same post say you're not a native Arabic speaker!
You came on the board to lecture is on Arabic and yusallona not meaning prayer but blessing for crying out loud!!!

As for this ' I am content that my intention was a correct and I was not lying.'
Give me a break! You don't know if your lying or not because of your intent???? Seriously?!?
That's like a guy saying 'I speak English to my WIFE because I believe she speaks English too.' You know what your intent is. If you're too screwed up morally speaking to know right from wrong, truth from falsehood, maybe you need to quit reading the Koran and stop worshipping Allah.

Last: 'Knowledge is a Divine gift, this is what seperates humans from other creatures; arriving at understanding through reason. We have to let go of our egos as it is an obstruction to our spiritual growth.
See Tasawwuf (purification of the soul).'

I will give you the benefit of the doubt by saying you probably meant to say 'wisdom' is from God alone.
I agree. The epistles talk of asking God for wisdom and he will give it too you.
But your definition is lacking and one again flawed. You derived it from two of Allahs attributes but of those attributes he's also called the greatest of liars.
Besides, this is not the definition of knowledge. It's a noun.
'the psychological result of perception and learning and reasoning.'
Knowledge, by the way, has another component: objectivity. You're lacking that.

Deleting said...


You said, "@ Herakleios I empathise with your fustration and it is absolutely natural to have these questions. It is not by accident because it arouses ones interest. "

He's not asking a question, nor is he 'vending frustrations'. He's making a point you keep missing. Or avoiding rather.

Context of the word in the Koran is always 'prayer'. Not 'send blessings' or 'greetings'. He listed out verses showing you your 'correction' was wrong.

Waxing philosophical about prayer doesn't accomplish anything. Honor God with truth, not platitudes. It's like you muslims don't see the similarities between yourselves and the pharisees in Jesus' time. They were religious too, they liked to pray too, and they did it out in public like you guys do yet Jesus said in Matthew 23:27

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."

Stay on point...Allah PRAYS.

Ask yourself the question 'if it's true that this word means 'prays' and nothing else, then what does that really mean?'

The christians who looked at this verse and asked objectively came to the same conclusion: this is one more evidence that Allah is not God and Mohammad was never a prophet of God.

Why are you afraid to do that?

Driller Mohamed said...

mister I think if you know arabic language you are not blinded like that you know that allah prayed to muhammed means mentionned him to his angels
and when angels prayed to muhammed means ask forgivens for muhammed

Driller Mohamed said...

but I ask you how can you believe that your God jeasus prayed this is the greatest problem created in your bible

Al-Ghazali said...

Yes, Arabic word for "pray" is "salat or salah", but it doesn't mean that "salat" has only one meaning. Islamic scholar Abu Abdullah al-Hakim Nishapuri (933-1012) found 22 different meanings of the word "salat" in the Holy Quran. Another Islamic scholar Abu Mansur es-Sealibi (d. 1038) found 10 different meanings of salat in Quran. Muhammad ed-Demagani (d. 1085) found 4 meanings of salat.

These all scholars say that "salat" in 33:56, means "forgiveness/blessing". You can't translate 33:56 like "Verily, Allah and His angels PRAY for the prophet." No, you don't even know Arabic or Tafsir, but it seems that you really like to talk about things that you have no idea. Allah confers mercy/blessing/forgiveness upon Prophet Muhammad (pbhu) (though Prohpet is completely sinless) and angels seek mercy/blessing/forgiveness from Allah for Prophet Muhammad (pbhu). And then Allah says "O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him (Prophet Muhammad) and ask [Allah to grant him] peace" (Because of it, we put PBUH(peace be upon him) after Prophet Muhammad's name.) That's what the Verse says.

According to scholars and philologists, salat in 2:157, 33:43 and 33:56 means "forgiveness/blessing". "Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [Allah to grant him] peace" (33:56) It's absolutely great translation, not mistranslation.

I tired of respond to illiterate and ignorant Christians' ridiculous claims. Come on, educate yourself and read something other than Pamela Geller's or Geert Wilders' books. If you do that, you will see that salat has many meanings in Quran, like "pray"(9:103), "daily prayers"(5:55), "religion"(11:87) and "forgiveness/blessing" (33:56).

And also, your explanation for Prophet Jesus's (pbuh) prayer, is quite weak. You say "he (Prophet Jesus) continued that communion with the Father through prayer". But look at John 14:28: "...the Father is greater than I." When we consider the Jesus' prayer in the light of John 14:28, we see that it's just a prayer (like anyone's prayer) than communion.

mysteriousseethebigpicture said...

Allah prays see Arabic above and Muhammad don't know where he's going, yet he's a prophet.
See below
Surah 46:9

Say: "I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the messengers, nor do i know what will be done with me or with you.

You are 100% certain your God is the only one.

Athiests believe in ghosts, poltergeists, aliens, sorcery and evil like the devil.

The principal of sowing and reaping is understood sow good get good so bad get bad. Opposing forces..Science explains this, Christians this, Jews, New Age Pagens..and so on.. If Allah is one God is He responsible for evil on earth too being the only creator. Is that why Jihad justifies killing in Allah. In any other law known it's is unlawful to declare in someone else's name?

To anyone who's is reading this Islam practices lying it is acceptable behaviour and sees any individual as not equal but:

Taqiyya ("al Taqiyya") is the Muslims' license to lie to infidels in order to camouflage Islam's holy war strategy (jihad) to conquer the world. The strategy mentioned
through orders and solicitations in the Quran 3:28 and other Islamic writings and reference applies to all Western countries and against all infidels people (non-muslims) who is not
Islamic and therefore seen as a constant threat to Islam.

Quran 3:28 or Quran 3:28 are two different translations of the Quran verse and says exactly the same in summary:

"Let not the believers (muslims) take the unbelievers for friends, or their companions instead for the believers (muslims): if someone does, then you have no contact with Allah [They
does not represent islam anymore and can be killed ]: unless muslims take precautions, and plays fake (Guard yourselves from them) [Which means that muslims say that they are unbelievers (non-muslim's) best friends when in fact they hate them ].

One of the so-called largest Islamic commentators and historians of all "Ibn Kathir"commented the above sura (chapter) 3 and verse 28 of the Quran and said that "muslims are allowed to show friendship outwardly, but never inwardly)." . Another renowned scholar among muslims, "Al-Bukhari" commented by saying that "We[muslims] smile in the face of some people[non-muslims] although our hearts curse them".

This religion only link to Christianity is the God of Fortress in the Book of Daniel. In that describes a false prophet who will enter the world preaching deception and destruction. This has not christian, Jews, Buddha, Sikh, Hindu or any diety.

Researcher said...


56. Allah and His angels send blessings on the Prophet:(3761) O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect.

Commentary :

3761 Allah and His angels honour and bless the Prophet as the greatest of men. We are asked to honour and bless him all the more because he took upon himself to suffer the sorrow and afflictions of this life in order to guide us to Allah's Mercy and the highest inner Life.

Hameem Abdul Al Hakim Habeeb said...

Prayers and peace upon our Master Muhammad to the extent of created things in Allah/Gd's Kingdom as long as Gd/ Allah's Kingdom endures