Monday, July 1, 2013

Jesus: The Final Judge

Muslims often ask where Jesus claimed to be God. According to both the Bible and the Qur'an, God is the final judge of all people. Yet in Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus claims to be the final judge of all people. Since Jesus makes a claim that only God can truly make, Jesus clearly claimed to be God.

For more on Jesus' claims to be God, see:


goethechosemercy said...

Jesus never "claimed to be God."
He was and is the Son of God.
Read the scriptures and you can't help but agree.

David Wood said...

So Jesus' disciple John got his message wrong when he said that "the Word was God"? And Thomas got Jesus' message wrong when he called him "my Lord and my God"? How did you come to know so much more about Jesus than his closest followers?

Reginas Templariis said...

goethechosemercy - Pray for discernment. It is clear that Jesus Christ is God made flesh. He had to become flesh to stand in our place and take our sins. To appear as His Godly Self on earth would have completely defeated the purpose. How can you not see? You need to stop reading deluded blogs and focus on the scriptures. David Wood has it right, and well-said.

Unknown said...

Son of God = God the Son

This is all over the scripture, and "it screams" in John 14. :-)

Dk said...

I've decided to play Muslim (Devil's) Advocate, since no Muslim would be able to fulfill these requirements anyhow. In fact just call me Sheik Abu Derek.

David while I agree on the surface level I think this would make Jesus the true God according to the standards held to by some passages in the Old Testament and Quran since both books imply God alone is the final judge of mankinds soul and heart and Jesus claims the same in the Gospel.

But what if the New Testament theology which isn't necessarily consistent with these passages of the Old Testament or Quran.

Meaning in the New Testament, God could have appointed a proxy who does the judging on behalf of him. Which is contrary to the OT and Quran which say God alone has this power and prerogative.

Secondly if it can be shown that in the Old Testament and Islam that God appoints judges and kings and other representatives and delegates to judge on behalf of his divine council and justice, then how do we know God can not simply continue this process through making Jesus a judge in the New Testament?

Also in Islam there are some hadiths that teach Jesus will return as the judge of mankind. Also there are passages in the Quran that imply certain humans, including Mohammed, act as the judges of God on earth in their respective periods. e.g.

There are also passages that clearly teach Mohammed on the day of judgement is going to intercede, judge and save people as appointed by Allah:

So while God alone has the perogative and power to judge people, wouldn't it be accurate to say God can give this authority to certain delegates and proxies in the Old Testament, New Testament and Quran and Hadith? And therefore give this authority to the Messiah whom represents him?

If you say God alone is the ultimate judge, does that mean he cannot have a representative in certain contexts such as the day of judgement but not others? How do these kings and judges exist as God's representatives and judges on earth? And how do Saints judge the angels at the end of time if God has no proxy at judgement day?

Finally when the Old Testament says God jugdes all people of the world, specifically on the day of judgement, how do you know God can not simply judge all people through his proxy as in Daniel 7 he himself gives the judgement to the Son of Man who represents God's justice perfectly?

In other words there is nothing specifically mentioned in the Hebrew Bible that says God cannot endow his creatures with the ability to judge and be God's proxy on earth. How does God being the judge of the earth and all it's inhabitants and kingdoms mean the he cannot use a proxy? The passages you quote make no qualification, that God cannot give his authority to others. They just say God judges the whole earth with justice which is entirely true, but we know he judges the earth through vessels.

Dk said...

Continued...part 2

If we say this case is different because the Son of Man in Dan 7 is "worshiped" as God's appointed judge and ruler, couldn't we say the same about King David:

1Chr 29:20 [KJV]And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.

This same kind of worship is offered to Yahweh in: 2 Chronicles 7:1-4, 2 Chronicles 20:18.

In other words God can appoint a ruler and judge who receives worship in the context of religious ceremony with that entity being a creature and proxy representing God's justice and judgement. So just because a proxy receives reverence and represents God's justice on earth, that does not mean the proxy is divine.

In conclusion: Judging all mankind on the day of judgement is not a special divine function that God cannot given to another in the Old Testament or Islamic texts, we need stronger evidence.

goethechosemercy said...

I don't think so.
John was referring to the word as prophesied by Isaiah.
"For as rain and snow fall from the heavens and return not again, but water the earth, bringing forth life and giving growth, seed for sowing and bread for eating, so is my word that goes forth from my mouth;
it will not return to me empty;
but it will accomplish that which I have purposed, and prosper in that for which I sent it."

That is Jesus Christ.
Wherever the Word, or the Anointed is spoken before Christ, it does refer to Christ.
The Word was with God.
That is a simple, declarative statement of fact, it's not a claim.
Jesus does not merely claim or possess himself, he is himself and certainly that includes his divine nature.
His divinity is not something he adopted, but something he had all along.
I did not come to know it.
I read it.
To claim something is to see it as beyond yourself, it implies some kind of reach.
I don't think Jesus needed to reach divinity, if I did, then I'd be an Arian.
If I believe that it was his nature from the beginning, then I'm a Trinitarian.
And yes, I believe in the Incarnation, and the Athanasian Creed.
I read it there too.

goethechosemercy said...

So I'm sorry about saying that Jesus never claimed to be God.
When a non-Christian, particularly one unfamiliar with scripture, says that Jesus claimed to be God, he is in the peculiar position of not understanding just why Jesus's words are true.
Still, there is something essentially different about Jesus's claims to divinity than say, average Joe Blow's claims to be God.
I remember a story of a priest who, in ministering to a Muslim, dared his auditor to read the entire New Testament and then say that Jesus Christ only claimed to be God. If the Muslim remained committed to his faith, the priest agree that he would submit.
And so the Muslim read the entire NT and decided that no one could have invented Jesus, that he had to be God as he and so many after him had stated.
Only God would do what Jesus did.
Anyone can say "Jesus claimed to be God."
What's important is why those claims have meaning, what makes them both true and profound at the same time.

Sam said...

Derek, I was writing an article on 1 Chronicles 29:20 to show that the worship Jesus receives is qualitatively different from the honor given to David in that text. Guess what happened? My wife ended up damaging my computer and I lost the file!

Anyway, take a moment to read the praise which David gives to Yahweh in 29:10-19. Once you do, you will see that every honor, praise, accolade etc. given to Yahweh is actually ascribed to Jesus in the Nt. For instance, compare 29:10-14 with Revelation 5:8-14. As you will be able to verify, Jesus is worshiped in the same way that David and the Israelites worship Yahweh.

Dk said...


The dog ate my homework...

The wife broke the computer....

You are obviously running from Sheik Abu Derek!!!!

Allahu akbar!

Look forward to your article, if Jochen ever comes back!

Anonymous said...

In any kingdom, the highest authority is the King.

"Then the King will say..."

"And the King will answer..." Matthew 25:34, 40

“...saying that he himself is Christ, a King.” Luke 23:2

“Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord!” Luke 19:38 (“God is the Lord.” Psalm 118:27)

"These will make war with the Lamb [Jesus] and the Lamb will overcome them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings..." Revelation 17:14

And whoever creates something is King over it.

“All things were made through him, and without him nothing was made that was made.” John 1:3

And only the God, the King, can say,

“Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.” Matthew 24:35

Agape said...

God the Son, the Second Person of the Holy Trinity became flesh not only for juridical reasons of atonement/punishment. This is a very reductionist approach to the mystery of the Incarnation. The Incarnation is far more significant. "God became man, in order for man to become god" [by grace, not essence]. Christ is the New Adam, he is the Theanthropos, what Adam failed to achieve Christ realizes and brings to perfection. He submits the human will willing and freely [out of love and trust] to the Divine Will. In the very Incarnation human nature is restored and brought to its full realization, full dignity. How? Through its intrinsic unity with God, not fusion or mixing which would imply a change in either nature, but by a Hypostatic union, through which all our iniquities, all our weaknesses are cured. Obviously the Calvary is important, but so too is the very incarnation, and resurrection. Muslims do not see the full picture because we always present them the juridical element of soteriology, rather than its holistic all encompassing one. God is Love.

Toll said...

1Chr 29:20 [KJV]And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.

I would not interpret this to mean that the people worshipped the king. It means that the king, in addition to the congregation, also worshipped the Lord along with his people.

Toll said...

If the people worship the king after he has commanded them to bless the Lord this would be a great blasphemy.

Toll said...

2 Tim 2 v 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Matthew 7 v 23 : "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

At the last judgement Jesus will send all those to hell that he never knew as his own sheep. No one but Jesus has this knowledge. So how can anyone judge in his place?

World Wide said...

Jesus does not stand as God's proxy, rather He is God Himself. Well then why does not God come directly and judge? thats becasue "no man can see God and live", so He has to send His 'Form' down so that we dont die st the very sight of Him. Jesus says if you have seen me, you have seen the Father.

Christian A. said...

Sam and David, many are waiting for answering-islam's new articles. Why is it delayed more than usual?