Friday, April 27, 2012

Where Did Jesus Say, "I Am God, Worship Me"?

The Qur’an commands Christians to judge by the Gospel:
Qur’an 5:47—“Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.”
Thus, when Christians present their beliefs, it makes sense for Muslims to ask, “Could you show us where the Bible says that?” Christians should therefore be eager to present evidence from the Gospel, because Muslims cannot condemn us for doing what the Qur’an commands. Indeed, since the Qur’an affirms not only the Gospel, but also the Torah (Qur’an 5:43), Muslims cannot ignore what the Bible says without thereby rebelling against Islam.

Muslims around the world are being trained to ask Christians, “Where did Jesus say, ‘I am God, worship me,’ in those exact words?” However, if Muslims are suggesting that Jesus could only claim to be God by uttering a specific sentence, we may reply by asking, “Where did Jesus say, ‘I am only a prophet, don’t worship me,’ in those exact words?” The unreasonable demand for a particular statement, if applied consistently, would thus force Muslims to reject their own view!

Fortunately, we have a simple way to examine what Jesus said about himself. According to both the Bible and the Qur’an, there are certain claims that only God can truly make. For instance, God alone can correctly state that he created the universe. Of course, a mere human being can pronounce the words, “I created the universe,” but the statement would be false coming from anyone other than God.

Hence, if Jesus said things that can only truly be said by God, we must conclude that Jesus claimed to be God. Interestingly, Jews, Christians, and Muslims agree on many of the claims that cannot be properly made by (or about) mere human beings. Let us consider a few of these.

THE FIRST AND THE LAST

Surah 57:3 of the Qur’an refers to Allah as “the First and the Last, the Most High and the Most Near.” The Old Testament agrees that God is the “First and the Last,” as we read in the Book of the prophet Isaiah:
Isaiah 44:6—Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me.”
When “LORD” is written in all capitals in the Old Testament, the term refers to Yahweh, the creator of the universe. Since both the Bible and the Qur’an give the title “the First and the Last” to God, it should be quite shocking for Muslims to open the New Testament and read Revelation 1:17-18, where Jesus says:
“Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.”
Would a mere prophet claim to be the “First and the Last”?

WHO FORGIVES SINS?

While one human being may sin against another human being, there is a sense in which all sin is rebellion against God. Similarly, while you and I may forgive one another for the wrongs we commit, only God can offer ultimate forgiveness. Thus, the prophet David could say to God, “Against You, You only, I have sinned 
and done what is evil in Your sight” (Psalm 51:4), and the Prophet Daniel could declare, “To the Lord our God belong compassion and forgiveness, for we have rebelled against Him” (Daniel 9:9).

The Qur’an agrees that ultimate forgiveness belongs to God, for it asks, “Who can forgive sins except Allah?” (3:135).

It might surprise Muslims to learn that, in the New Testament, Jesus claims the ability to forgive sins. In Mark 2, a paralyzed man is brought to Jesus in order to be healed. Jesus’ response leads the religious leaders to accuse him of blasphemy:
Mark 2:5-7—And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” But some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, “Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?”
The scribes correctly recognized that only God can forgive sins. Yet Jesus (who referred to himself as the “Son of Man”), knowing their thoughts, replied that “the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins” (Mark 2:10). He then healed the paralytic, proving that his claims were true.

THE LIGHT

In Psalm 27:1, the prophet David proclaims: “The LORD is my light and my salvation.” Similarly, the Qur’an declares that “Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth” (24:35). Yet Jesus tells his listeners that he is “the Light”:
John 8:12—“I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life.”
THE TRUTH

The prophet David refers to Yahweh as the “God of Truth” (Psalm 31:5). According to the Qur’an, “Allah is the Truth” (22:6). Jesus, however, applies this as a title for himself:
John 14:6—Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”
How can a mere human being claim to be “The Truth”?

THE FINAL JUDGE

In Chapter 3 of the Book of the prophet Joel, Yahweh declares that the nations will be gathered and that he “will sit to judge all the surrounding nations” (v. 12). According to the prophet David, “the LORD abides forever;
 He has established His throne for judgment, and He will judge the world in righteousness” (Psalm 9:7-8).

The Qur’an maintains that Allah will judge the world, rewarding believers and punishing unbelievers:
Qur’an 22:56-57—The kingdom on that day shall be Allah’s; He will judge between them; so those who believe and do good will be in gardens of bliss. And (as for) those who disbelieve in and reject Our communications, these it is who shall have a disgraceful chastisement.
So why, we may wonder, would Jesus tell his followers that he will be the final judge of all people?
Matthew 25:31-32—“But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.”
Jesus goes on to say that he will admit certain people to heaven and cast others into hell. Isn’t this something only God can do?

THE RESURRECTION

The Bible and the Qur’an agree that God is the one who will raise the dead.
1 Samuel 2:6—The LORD kills and makes alive; He brings down to Sheol and raises up.

Qur’an 22:7—Allah will resurrect those who are in the graves.
Since God will raise the dead at the resurrection, why would a mere prophet tell his followers that he will resurrect the dead?
John 5:25-29—“Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.”

John 11:25—Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies.”
GOD’S GLORY

The Qur’an tells us that “Whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth glorifies Allah” (57:1).

In the Old Testament, we find that Yahweh will not share his glory with anyone.
Isaiah 42:8—“I am the LORD, that is My name; 
I will not give My glory to another.” (Cf. Isaiah 48:11—“My glory I will not give to another.”)
Yet Jesus claimed, not only that he would be glorified with the Father, but that he had glory with the Father before the world was created!
John 17:5—“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”
How can anyone see this as anything other than a claim to deity?

FURTHER EVIDENCE

In Mark 2:28, Jesus calls himself the “Lord of the Sabbath.” In Matthew 22:41-45, he proves that he is the Lord of the prophet David. In John 8:39-58, Jesus says that he has seen the prophet Abraham. In Matthew 12:6, Jesus claims to be greater than God’s Temple.

Jesus tells us that he has an absolutely unique relationship with the Father (Matthew 11:27), that he can answer prayers (John 14:13-14), that he is present wherever his followers are gathered (Matthew 18:20), that he has “all authority in heaven and on earth” (Matthew 28:18), and that he is with his followers forever (Matthew 28:20). He even makes the startling declaration that “All things that the Father has are Mine” (John 16:15).

According to Jesus, all people must honor him just as we honor the Father:
John 5:21-23—“For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.”
Since one of the ways we honor the Father is by worshiping him, it should come as no surprise that Jesus’ followers worshiped him on numerous occasions. Indeed, the Gospel tells us that Jesus was worshiped throughout his life: shortly after his birth (Matthew 2:11), during his ministry (Matthew 14:33, John 9:38), after his resurrection (Matthew 28:17), and after his ascension to heaven (Luke 24:52). Jesus’ disciple Thomas even addressed him as “my Lord and my God” (John 20:28).

ASSESSMENT

Where did Jesus say, “I am God, worship me”? As we have seen, Jesus claimed to be the First and the Last, the forgiver of sins, the Light, the Truth, the Final Judge, and the Resurrection. Jesus proclaimed that he had glory with the Father before the world was created, that he is the Lord of the Sabbath and of King David, that he had seen Abraham, and that he is greater than God’s Temple. Jesus has a unique relationship with the Father, he can answer prayers, he is with his followers no matter where they are, he has total authority on earth and in heaven, he is with his followers forever, and he owns everything. Jesus even demanded that he be honored just as the Father is honored. Clearly, these are not the claims of a mere human being. They are not even the claims of a mighty prophet. These are claims only God can truly make. This is why Christians believe that Jesus is God.

POSTSCRIPT: THE ISLAMIC DILEMMA

Since the Bible obviously supports the Christian view of Jesus, Muslims who want to deny the deity of Christ will have to argue that the Gospel has been corrupted. But if the Gospel has been corrupted, why does the Qur’an command Christians to judge by the Gospel? By commanding us to judge by what we find in the Gospel, the Qur’an has inadvertently ordered Christians to reject Islam!

But it gets worse for Muslims. The Qur’an affirms the inspiration and reliability of the Christian Scriptures (3:3-4, 5:47, 5:66, 7:157, 10:94), as well as man’s inability to corrupt God’s Word (6:114-115, 18:27). Muslims therefore cannot reject what the Gospel says, which leaves them with quite a dilemma. If the Gospel is reliable, Islam must be false, since the Gospel presents Jesus as God. Alternatively, if the Gospel is unreliable, Islam must be false, because the Qur’an tells us that the Gospel is the Word of God. Either way, Islam is false, and anyone who is searching for the truth will never find it in the Qur’an.

FOR FURTHER STUDY

"Did Jesus Claim to Be God When He Ascribed to Himself Divine Titles and Attributes?"
"Jesus’ Divine Claims and Islam: An Examination of Biblical Christology In Light of the Quranic View of Allah’s Attributes"
"Islamic Theology Confirms that both Jesus and His Followers Claimed that He Is God!"
"Meeting the Challenge of the Qur'an Concerning the Deity of Christ"

FOR RESPONSES TO COMMON MUSLIM OBJECTIONS TO THE DEITY OF CHRIST, SEE OUR FOUR-PART SERIES ON YUSHA EVANS' "TOP TEN REASONS WHY JESUS IS NOT GOD":

"Joshua Evans and the Deity of Christ: Part One"
"Joshua Evans and the Deity of Christ: Part Two"
"Joshua Evans and the Deity of Christ: Part Three"
"Joshua Evans and the Deity of Christ: Part Four"

219 comments:

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Leah said...

What a great article, I'm sending this to my friends. Thanks.

Koala Bear said...

Fantastic! Now I can send this to muslims when the topic comes up.

Koala Bear said...

This will be perfect to send to these people http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1394306/Provocative-bus-adverts-declare-Jesus-prophet-Islam-cause-anguish-Sydney.html

GreekAsianPanda said...

I'm pretty sure the social context would have prevented Jesus from making such a provocative and explicit statement like "I am God; worship me." Jesus was on a mission, and he couldn't have gotten himself killed too soon; he still had preaching to do.

Letitia (The Damsel) said...

Some extra meat for David Wood's plate:

1. "I say to you”/”I tell you” statements – Jesus often used these phrases to assert authority to change a concept of Jewish law or tradition by either contradicting it or correcting its present interpretation. For example, on divorce, Jesus assumes authority over Moses and contradicts Mosaic tradition (Matt. 19:8-9). And again, “For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 5:20). The impact of this was not lost on those who heard Him, for in so doing, Jesus was putting Himself in authority above them, above the Prophets, and above God’s Law as Judge and Revealer of God’s truth. William Lane Craig says in his book, Reasonable Faith, “Jesus’ sense of personal authority to correct the Torah and contradict Jewish tradition goes down hard for faithful Jews.” To His audience, Jesus put Himself in the very place of God, making the pronouncements that only God has a right to make. This is true even today. Jacob Neusner, the well-known Jewish scholar, wrote the book, A Rabbi Talks With Jesus, in which he objects to Jesus on the same grounds a Jews in the 1st cent. Neusner is offended at Jesus’ presumption to subject the Torah to His word and says of the book of Matt, “No one can encounter Matthew’s Jesus without concurring that before us in the evangelist’s mind is God incarnate.” In effect, Neusner is asking, “Who do you think you are, Jesus—God?”

Letitia (The Damsel) said...

2. Many times, Jesus orients Himself to God the Father differently than He orients His disciples to God the Father. In John 20:17, He says to Mary, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' " He doesn’t say “our Father.” (The famous Lord’s Prayer is actually a misnomer, because Jesus never prayed that prayer; it is a prayer for His disciples to pray.) Jesus always establishes a unity and intimacy between Himself and God the Father that He doesn’t ascribe to anyone else.

Letitia (The Damsel) said...

3. Liberal theologians also deny any historical references to Jesus' divinity, yet there is one parable of Jesus that is universally seen as authentic to Him, the Parable of the Wicked Tenants (Matt. 21:33-46; Mark 12:1-12): in this parable, Jesus clearly puts Himself in the story as the son the tenants plot to kill for his inheritance. The Pharisees' reaction to this parable is telling, for they seek His immediate arrest--for what? Jesus put Himself in direct authority above THEM with special relation to God and spoke judgment against THEM (remember, the Pharisees were the religious elite who were closer to God than anyone else; anyone having more authority than they would HAVE to be God Himself).

Letitia (The Damsel) said...

4. One of the titles Jesus often used for Himself was "Son of Man" with direct reference to Daniel 7:13. My intent is not to get into a Bible verse-joust, so I will quote Darell Bock in his Breaking the Da Vinci Code. When you read how Jesus portays Himself to His immediate audience in the Gospels, you can't help but recognize that "Jesus is a divine figure worthy to sit in God's presence because He is capable of sharing God's unique glory." The Gospels needed to make distinct exactly what their position was on Jesus: that Jesus was either a blasphemous pretender or one worthy to share in God's glory. Their choice is the latter. Jesus is a fully human person who also bears the unique signs of God's deity and deserving of that status, a view held by Christians long before Nicea.

That anyone would ask for more explicit claims for Jesus' deity really betrays a modern blindness to the way things were (anachronistic imposition of post-Enlightenment thinking, if you will). They are committing the first mistake I talked about, which is to want Jesus to get up in the middle of the Beatitudes and shout, "Yes! I am God! Worship Me now!" Such a proclamation would have been unecessary and would have given the wrong idea to Jesus' listeners. To say that would have meant that Jesus was the Father, (or a contemporary mistake which is to say that Jesus is the Trinity) which would make no sense whatsoever to the Jewish mind.

The challenge to the deity of Jesus Christ is an old one, and an answered one at that. But history doesn't seem to make a difference in the minds of modern-day deniers, so here we go again and again.

Radical Moderate said...

Well done, I hope this is going to be a pamphlet handed out in Dearborn.

I would just add that Jesus claims the name of YHWH.

John 17:11-12

"...Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me..."

Radical Moderate said...

There is only one name of power and that is YHWY

Scruffy Scirocco said...

http://towerofreason.blogspot.com/2011/05/jesus-is-god.html

Way2Yeshua said...

Amazing article!

Hakim said...

The problem is that Muslims would say that all the Gospels we have are corrupted and that will close the debate...Only the HS can do it.

Joe Abrahamson said...

Thank you for this article.

Joe Abrahamson said...

Thank you for putting this article together.

goethechosemercy said...

Quote:
Muslims around the world are being trained to ask Christians, “Where did Jesus say, ‘I am God, worship me,’ in those exact words?”
end

To answer the question, you must invoke the scriptural and doctrinal Trinity.
Jesus never said "I Am God" because the Trinity is the truth.
Who said we worship a man in the first place?
As Christians, we know that "Jesus" has two natures.

goethechosemercy said...

It never ceases to amaze me how feeble and weak the Muslim case against Christianity is.

Joe Bradley said...

The newest bit of misinformation being promoted by Muslims is that Jesus was a prophet of Islam. While he may be an acknowledged prophet within the Qur'an, Islam wasn't contrived until 570 AD with the birth of it's founder Mohammed. Since Islam wasn't in existence at the time of Jesus, the claim that he was a prophet of Islam is rubbish.

Dk said...

I like the question the Muslims are asking the Christians.

Here is the proposed standard Muslims are making. They demand a single verse of theology, where all the claims/theology they want is compacted into a single verse in a place in the Bible.

Now using the same standard my questions are directed at the Muslims:

Where in the Quran or Bible did Jesus say "I was born of a virgin, my mother was a virgin"?

Where in the Quran or Bible did Jesus say "I am the Messiah and Muslim Prophet"?

Where in the Quran or Bible did Jesus say: "Allah is going to save me from death, and i'm going to return"?

These are just a few questions I have, once these are answered, I will ask more.

If Muslims cannot answer these questions with a single verse with all the claims compacted inside the one verse, then it's time to start reconsidering your standards.

donna60 said...

I have shown Muslims verses where Jesus accepted worship, and they inform me that that is no different worship than is given to important people.

Is it my American value system in regards to the equality of humanity?-- Because, I don't worship anyone.

Radical Moderate said...

Hakim said...

"The problem is that Muslims would say that all the Gospels we have are corrupted and that will close the debate...Only the HS can do it."

That is the typical fall back position. When a Muslim can not deal with what the text says they just claim corutption.

So when ever they do that, make sure you point out to them that they have just admited that the bible teaches the divinity of Christ.

ogunitracy said...

And Jesus claimed to be omnipresent

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.

Only God is omnipresent.

Royal Son said...

Matthew 12:35 The good man brings out of his good treasure what is good; and the evil man brings out of his evil treasure what is evil.

According to Jesus, only God is good, so who is the good man? Remember, Jesus is condemning the evil of the Pharisees who had just committed Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

goodmorning said...

i don't know how i stumbled across this article.. but i have to add a bit of information you guys may or may not know. in my religion, we believe that the God of the Old Testament and Jesus of the New Testament is actually the same being. we believe there is a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother.. and that Jesus is the son.. and this earth is his creation(Jesus').. and He is the God.. the Savior of everyone born here. the word God.. meaning All Knowing and Creator. we also believe that one day.. a day far , far away from today.. that everyone that is worthy can also.. be a creator.. Gods and Goddesses of our own worlds.. and worlds that are and will be.. are like grains of sand on a beach.. too many to count. the possibilities are limitless! :)

Radical Moderate said...

@Muslims feel free to attack whatever religion Goodmorning is apart of, I will even join in. My guess Mormonism.

goodmorning said...

I am totally LDS. but it will be a waste of your time and effort to attack.. and i don't understand why you would want to. peace and love, people. peace and love. i enjoyed reading these posts and comments. thank you for them.

SubhanAllah5 said...

It is True that Muslims will argue that the Gospel is corrupt, what you have now is not a Original Gospel but what you Made out of it.
You turned a Gospel from the Book of Jesus" into a Book about Jesus and continue creating more and more after finding golden plates in forests of USA and Soon there may be an Avatar Church of Christ?
Whatever is TRUE in Gospel has ben repeated/ confirmed in Qur'an.

"The Qur’an affirms the inspiration and reliability of the Christian Scriptures (3:3-4, 5:47, 5:66, 7:157, 10:94), as well as man’s inability to corrupt God’s Word (6:114-115, 18:27)"
YES this confirms hat I said above- Christian scriptures and NOT the stories about THEM.
“Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, “This is from Allaah,” to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby” [al-Baqarah 2:79]

And when God says: O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you say to mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside God? he says: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then You know it. You know what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Your mind. You, only You, are the Knower of Things Hidden. I spoke to them only what You commanded me, (saying): Worship God, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I lived among them, and when You took me You were the Watcher over them. You are Witness over all things. If You punish them, they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them (they are Your slaves). You, only You are the Mighty, the Wise. (5:116-118)

And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of God, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of God. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. God (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they! They have taken as lords beside God their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah, son of Mary, when they were ordered to worship only One God. There is no god except Him. (9:30-31)

Radical Moderate said...

@Sub you wrote...


"It is True that Muslims will argue that the Gospel is corrupt, what you have now is not a Original Gospel" but what you Made out of it. You turned a Gospel from the Book of Jesus"

Ok prove it, show us the "ORIGINAL GOSPLE OF JESUS. Show us anyone who quoted from this Original Gosple of Jesus. Since Christians have never claimed and do not claim that the Gosple of Jesus is a BOOK.

You then wrote...

"finding golden plates in forests of USA and Soon there may be an Avatar Church of Christ?"

You are refering to Joseph smith a false prophet and false teecher. Momons are NOT CHRISTIAN they are PAGAN. IF the mormons are Christian then the Bahai's and ALwaits are MUSLIM.

You then go on...

"Whatever is TRUE in Gospel has ben repeated/ confirmed in Qur'an."

Since you said that there is a "true gosple of Jesus" and now you say "whatever is True in gosple." I assume you mean the four gosples. Other wise you are saying that there is un truth in the orgnial gosple.

So show us what of the gosples has been repeated in the Quran? Give me the verses from the Gosples that are true and repeated and confirmed.

You then go on to prove the Quran wrong by quoting it. THe Jews never said Ezra was the SON OF GOD, and Christians have never believed that Mary is a GOD and we do not believe that Jesus is a God beside GOD.

Well I await your answers.

SubhanAllah5 said...

You seem to know a lot of about Gospels,then why do not you read Qur'an for yourself and make hundreds more discoveries.
By the way I did not mean "four" as I know that those "inspired by God" + lobby of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. If the Gospels from the Holy Scripture were turned into stories about Jesus,why not all of them made it to Bible?
Read most of the answers to your questions below:
1. Do Muslims believe he was a Messenger of One God? YES

Belief in all of the Prophets and Messengers of God is a fundamental article of faith in Islam. Thus, believing in Prophets Adam, Jesus, Moses, and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon them) is a requirement for anyone who calls him or herself a Muslim. A person claiming to be a Muslim who, for instance, denies the Messengership of Jesus, is not considered a Muslim.

The Quran says in reference to the status of Jesus as a Messenger:

"The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger before whom many Messengers have passed away; and his mother adhered wholly to truthfulness, and they both ate food (as other mortals do). See how We make Our signs clear to them; and see where they are turning away!" (Quran 5:75).

2. Do Muslims believe he was born of a Virgin Mother? YES

Like Christians, Muslims believe Mary, Maria in Spanish, or Maryam as she is called in Arabic, was a chaste, virgin woman, who miraculously gave birth to Jesus.

"Relate in the Book the story of Mary, when she withdrew from her family, to a place in the East. She screened herself from them; then We sent to her Our spirit (angel Gabriel) and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. She said: I seek refuge from you in God Most Gracious (come not near) if you do fear God. He said: Nay, I am only a Messenger from your Lord, to announce to you the gift of a pure son. She said: How shall I have a son, when no man has ever touched me, and I am not unchaste? He said: So it will be, your Lord says: ‘That is easy for Me; and We wish to appoint him as a sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': It was a matter so decreed" (Quran 19:16-21).

3. Do Muslims believe Jesus had a miraculous birth? YES

The Quran says:

"She (Mary) said: ‘O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me.' He (God) said: ‘So (it will be) for God creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: ‘Be!'- and it is" (3:47).

It should also be noted about his birth that:

"Verily, the likeness of Jesus in God's Sight is the likeness of Adam. He (God) created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!'-and he was" (Quran 3:59).

4. Do Muslims believe Jesus spoke in the cradle? YES

"Then she (Mary) pointed to him. They said: ‘How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' He (Jesus) said: ‘Verily! I am a slave of God, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet; " (19:29-30).

5. Do Muslims believe he performed miracles? YES

Muslims, like Christians believe Jesus performed miracles. But these were performed by the will and permission of God, Who has power and control over all things.

"Then will God say: ‘O Jesus the son of Mary! recount My favor to you and to your mother. Behold! I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit (the angel Gabriel) so that you did speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught you the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel. And behold: you make out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and you breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by My leave, and you heal those born blind, and the lepers by My leave. And behold! you bring forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the children of Israel from (violence to you) when you did show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: ‘This is nothing but evident magic' (5:110).

SubhanAllah5 said...

6. Do Muslims believe in the Trinity? NO

Muslims believe in the Absolute Oneness of God, Who is a Supreme Being free of human limitations, needs and wants. He has no partners in His Divinity. He is the Creator of everything and is completely separate from His creation.

God says in the Quran regarding the Trinity:

"People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.' Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. God is indeed just One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. God is sufficient for a guardian" (Quran 4:171).

7. Do Muslims believe that Jesus was the son of God? NO

"Say: "God is Unique! God, the Source [of everything]. He has not fathered anyone nor was He fathered, and there is nothing comparable to Him!" (Quran 112:1-4).

The Quran also states:

"Such was Jesus, the son of Mary; it is a statement of truth, about which they vainly dispute. It is not befitting to the majesty of God, that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, ‘Be' and it is" (Quran 19:34-35).

8. Do Muslims believe Jesus was killed on the cross then resurrected? NO

"“They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but they thought they did.” (Quran 4:156) “God lifted him up to His presence. God is Almighty, All-Wise” (Quran 4:157) .

SubhanAllah5 said...

1. Do Christians believe Jesus was a human being and Messenger of God? YES & NO

With the exception of Unitarian Christians, who like all the early followers of Jesus, still do not believe in the Trinity, most Christians now believe in the Divinity of Jesus, which is connected to the belief in Trinity. They say he is the second member of the Triune God, the Son of the first part of the Triune God, and at the same time "fully" God in every respect.

2. Do Christians believe he was born of a Virgin Mother? YES

A chaste and pious human woman who gave birth to Jesus Christ, the second member of the Trinity, the Son of God, and at the same time "fully" God Almighty in every respect.

Christians believe however, that while she was a virgin, she was married to a man named Joseph (Bible: Matthew:1:18). According to Matthew 1:25, Joseph "kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus".

3. Do Christians believe he had a miraculous birth? YES

"Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows. When His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit" (Bible: Matthew 1:18)

4. Do Christians believe he performed miracles? YES

"And now, Lord, look upon their threats, and grant to thy servants to speak thy word with all boldness, while thou stretches out thy hand to heal, and sign and wonders are performed through the name of thy holy servant Jesus (Bible: Acts 4:30).

Christians believe that Jesus performed these miracles because he was the Son of God as well as the incarnation of God.

5. Do Christians believe in the Trinity? YES

With the exception of the Unitarian Christians, who do not believe in the Divinity of Christ, the Trinity, according to the Catholic encyclopedia, is the term used for the central doctrine of the Christian religion. The belief is that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three Persons or beings are distinct from each another, while being similar in character: uncreated and omnipotent.

The First Vatican Council has explained the meaning to be attributed to the term mystery in theology. It lays down that a mystery is a truth which we are not merely incapable of discovering apart from Divine Revelation, but which, even when revealed, remains "hidden by the veil of faith and enveloped, so to speak, by a kind of darkness" (Const., "De fide. cath.", iv). The First Vatican Council further defined that the Christian Faith contains mysteries strictly so called (can. 4). All theologians admit that the doctrine of the Trinity is of the number of these. The Catholic Encyclopedia notes that of all revealed truths, this is the most impenetrable to reason.

SubhanAllah5 said...

6. Do Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God? YES

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him (Bible: John 3:16).

However, it is interesting to note that the term "son of God" is used in other parts of the Bible to refer to Adam (Bible: Luke 3:38), Israel (Bible: Exodus 4:22) and David (Bible: Psalms 2:7) as well. The creatures of God are usually referred to in the Bible as children of God.

The role of Paul of Tarsus in shaping this belief and the belief in Trinity

The notion of Jesus as son of God is something that was established under the influence of Paul of Tarsus (originally named Saul), who had been an enemy of Jesus, but later changed course and joined the disciples after the departure of Jesus.

Later, however, he initiated a number of changes into early Christian teachings, in contradiction, for instance, to disciples like Barnabas, who believed in the Oneness of God and who had actually lived and met with Jesus.

Paul is considered by a number of Christian scholars to be the father of Christianity due to his additions of the following ideas:

o that Jesus is the son of God,
o the concept of Atonement,
o the renunciation of the Law of the Torah.

Paul did these things in hopes of winning over the Gentiles (non-Jewish people). His letters are another of the primary sources of information on Jesus according to the Christian tradition.

The original followers of Prophet Jesus opposed these blatant misrepresentations of the message of Jesus. They struggled to reject the notion of the Divinity of Jesus for close to 200 years.

One person who was an original follower of Jesus was Barnabas. He was a Jew born in Cyrus and a successful preacher of the teachings of Jesus. Because of his closeness to Jesus, he was an important member of the small group of disciples in Jerusalem who had had gathered together following the disappearance of Jesus.

The question of Jesus's nature, origin and relationship with God was not raised amongst Barnabas and the small group of disciples. Jesus was considered a man miraculously endowed by God. Nothing in the words of Jesus or the events in his life led them to modify this view.

The Gospel of Barnabas was accepted as a Canonical Gospel in the Churches of Alexandria till 325 CE Iranaeus (130-200) wrote in support of pure monotheism and opposed Paul for injecting into Christianity doctrines of the pagan Roman religion and Platonic philosophy. He quoted extensively from the Gospel of Barnabas in support of his views. This indicates that the Gospel of Barnabas was in circulation in the first and second centuries of Christianity.

In 325 (CE), a council of Christian leaders met at Nicaea and made Paul's beliefs officially part of Christian doctrine. It also ordered that all original Gospels in Hebrew script which contradicted Paul's beliefs should be destroyed. An edict was issued that anyone in possession of these Gospels would be put to death.

The Gospel of Barnabas has miraculously survived though.

SubhanAllah5 said...

7. Do Christians believe he was killed on the cross? YES

This is a core Christian belief and it relates to the concept of atonement. According to this belief, Jesus died to save mankind from sin. However, this is not stated explicitly in the four gospels which form the primary source texts of Christianity. It is found, however, in Romans 6:8,9.

Christians believe Jesus was spat on, cut, humiliated, kicked, striped and finally hung up on the cross to endure a slow and painful death.

According, to Christian belief, the original sin of Adam and Eve of eating from the forbidden tree was so great that God could not forgive it by simply willing it, rather it was necessary to erase it with the blood of a sinless, innocent Jesus.

Resurrection

The four Gospels and the Epistles of St. Paul are the main sources of Christianity which discuss the Resurrection of Jesus after his crucifixion. According to St. Matthew, Jesus appeared to the holy women, and again on a mountain in Galilee. Mark's Gospel tells a different story: Jesus was seen by Mary Magdalene, by the two disciples at Emmaus, and the Eleven before his Ascension into heaven.

Luke's Gospel says Jesus walked with the disciples to Emmaus, appeared to Peter and to the assembled disciples in Jerusalem. In John's Gospel, Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene, to the ten Apostles on Easter Sunday, to the Eleven a week later, and to seven disciples at the Sea of Tiberias.

Another account of the resurrection by St. Paul is found in Bible: Corinthians 15: 3-8.

According to Christian belief, Resurrection is a manifestation of God's justice, Who exalted Christ to a life of glory, as Christ had humbled himself unto death (Phil., 2: 8-9). This event also completes the mystery of Christian salvation and redemption. The death of Jesus frees believers from sin, and with his resurrection, he restores to them the most important privileges lost by sin (Bible: Romans 4:25).

More importantly, the belief in the resurrection of Jesus indicates Christian acknowledgment of Christ as the immortal God, the cause of believers' own resurrection (Bible: I Corinthians 4: 21; Phil., 3:20-21), as well as the model and the support of a new life of grace (Bible: Romans 4: 4-6; 9-11).

SubhanAllah5 said...

AND all of that mess because of PAUL?-AKA: Saul the former Pharisee (Jew). The bounty hunter/a persecutor of Christians before his Damascus road experience wherein he became Paul.
Saul who NEVER met Jesus - except for an instance wherein he was "alone" and Jesus appeared to him- another sick dream like those golden plates.
What do you know about Saul BEFORE he started promising followers of Jesus (later coined "christians") that they would be saved from being fed to the lions if they tithed to him and followed him?
Was he a con-man? Jews disclaim him. One Jew stated, "As far as Judaism is concerned, Paul didn't merit any mention at all. He may as well not have existed."
Another stated, "He is more of a Roman spy who found Christianity a better way to contain larger number of their conquered people"... yet another stated, "We don't care at all about Paul--he's not a person we give any thought to... he seems to have taken whatever Jesus was trying to say and perverted into something else."

IS IT WHERE YOU BASE ALL YOUR RELIGION because...If you reject Saul and his apostleship and conversion, then you reject the entire, infallible word of God??

SubhanAllah5 said...

Exodus 4:22
New International Version (©1984)
Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,

New Living Translation (©2007)
Then you will tell him, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the LORD, Israel is my firstborn son,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Then you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the LORD, "Israel is My son, My firstborn.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Then tell Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son.

King James Bible
And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel [is] my son, [even] my firstborn:

The Jews said Moses wasn't able to bring the Turah Except in Book But Ezra brought it without book. So many Groups of them called Ezra " Son of God "

THIS IS to your claim of my Quoting Qur'an wrong.

Radical Moderate said...

Sub you asked...

"If the Gospels from the Holy Scripture were turned into stories about Jesus,why not all of them made it to Bible?"

Answer becasue not all stories about Jesus are True. For instance a lot of the stories found in your quran are from late 2nd to third century FORGORIES.

Now on to the rest of your lengthy response. Thank you for explaing what you believe however that was not my question.

I asked you to show me a group of pre mohamed Islamic followers of Jesus who beleived the things that you say they should believe. For instance.

1. Jesus was born of a virgin.
2. Jesus was not divine.
3. Jesus did not die on the cross.

Also what scripture did they follow?

To asnwer another one of your questions.

"1. Do Christians believe Jesus was a human being and Messenger of God? YES & NO"

The answer is YES we do, as a matter of fact if you do not believe that Jesus was a MAN of flesh and bone you are a anti christ.

Also your response to your own question is just wrong. You wrote

"With the exception of Unitarian Christians, who like all the early followers of Jesus, still do not believe in the Trinity, most Christians now believe in the Divinity of Jesus"

Thats JUST wrong go and read the early church fathers of the first century.

Ignatious died 110 AD writes "We have only one Physician the lord our God Jesus the Christ the only begotten Son and WOrd...."

He writes again... "For Our GOD Jesus Christ"

And again "God Himself appearing in the form of a MAN for the renewal of eternal life"

Justin Martry writes about Jesus
"we do rightfully worship the father and his Son who being the second person and the holy spirit the third"

There is more, much more but I challange you to read Ignatious, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, Ireneous and others.

SubhanAllah5 said...

Oh may be this is the reason Why Catholics and Protestants are still deciding who is divine, Jesus Mary or Paul or whoever, May be that is why they are taking one part of Bible in the accuracy of translation of which no one is sure and make hundreds of different churches every day.
Someone says oh I was a Hitler-christian by the way, killing/sterilizing Jews but Jesus came to me when I was "alone" so NO witnesses no proof.. Pay me one 10th of your income and I will stop selling you for bounty/lion food? Some other guy has a vision and digs out golden plates and creates another church. Tell me what is Christian - and what is Holy... calling Jesus F Christ, Oh my F God, throwing Bibles in the trash OR defending the Bible because some part of it is mentioned/confirmed in Qur'an. Giving due respect to Jesus and his Mom or calling every single woman a bitch because of Eve's sin?

SubhanAllah5 said...

"If the Gospels from the Holy Scripture were turned into stories about Jesus,why not all of them made it to Bible?" Answer becasue not all stories about Jesus are True.
HOW DO YOU KNOW, DID YOU HAVE JESUS COME IN YOUR DREAM WHEN YOU WERE ALONE TOO?

Allah says: I have PERFECTED the RELIGION( not Torah, Not Bible, Not Qur'an) and I will DEFEND it.

I do not need to refer to Justin Martry Ignatious, Polycarp, Justin Martyr and Ireneous, they are No More than story tellers like you Paul and Luke and Mathew and whoever and there will be hundreds more to come, keep worshiping people and not God.

Hasnain said...

there is only one God and there has always been only one religion that is islam
gospel of john chapter 5 verse 30

'I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me'

if he is god y does he say that?

can someone explain...

Hasnain said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sREemKFBJX8

i think this shud be enough to remove any doubts

if u still deny may (son of)god help u

Koala Bear said...

@Hasnain: If you are going to pick a cherry pick a verse out of John I am guessing you found it on an anti-Christianity site without actually reading it yourself. If you read the whole of John you would have seen these too:

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

John 14:6 - Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 15:26 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.

Do you see how wrong those sites are? Read the Bible for yourself and see what it says before being deceived by the Christian haters.

Koala Bear said...

@Hasnain - have you never noticed with Naik how he rattles off passages to justify what he is saying? Have you ever looked up those verses he states to see whether they have any relevance to the comment or do you just take it as gospel that he knows what he is talking about. There are countless sites proving the man is an idiot and knows nothing about Christianity (or even islam for that matter).

Read through these:
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Rebuttals_to_Zakir_Naik

Hasnain said...

John 16:13

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.


Acts 2:22

“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.


who do you think the holy spirit is?
do u believe in hazrat muhammad p.b.u.h as the last messenger of God and do u believe in the quran?


We have sent down the Reminder, and We will preserve it (Al-Hijr 15: 9)


God says this only for the quran which means the bible u have is written by man himself.

The Divine Scriptures that were revealed before Islam lost their original forms over time; they are either incomplete or not fully accurate. In the case of the Qur'an, however, Allah placed the revelations into our Prophet’s (peace and blessings be upon him) memory. In addition, after he received each revelation, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) told his numerous Companions to write them down, thereby ensuring the Qur'an’s preservation in its original textual form.Basically God promised to protect the quran.



[Say: “If both humanity and jinn banded together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could never produce anything like it, even if they backed each other up.” ] (Al-Israa’ 17: 88)




Lastly if u believe in the quran which u shud...
(112-1 to 4)

1. Say (O Muhammad ()): "He is Allah, (the) One.

2. "Allah-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks).

3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten;

4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."

Hasnain said...

she says it all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQE0w5HQiZo&feature=related

A.Q said...

Friends read the script from the original bible which is kept in a museum.

Hasnain said...

in a museum? i dont think so

Truthseeker said...

@A.Q Oh! How sad!! Are we really have to go to the museum to read Bible...... See Friend you are throwing stone on yourself... Search the truth

ash said...

The answer is very clear as day light in the Bible. Please open your heart, and read the following:

Mark 12:28-33

28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.

31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.”

32 “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.

33 To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”



So, it is clear.......

This matches 100% with the Quran (Chapter 112:1-4)

1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

2 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

3 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

4 And there is none like unto Him.



If Allah (The Arabic translation of God) told us in the Quran that Jesus is my Son, and worship him.... I would be the first one who does that..... But he did not....



I love God, I Love Adam, I Love Noah, I Love Yunous, I love Abraham, I Love Jacob, I Love Isac, I Love Ismeial, I Love Yousef, I Love Sulaiman, I Love David, I Love John, I Love Moses, I Love Jesus, and I love Muhammad..... Peace and Blessings upon them all....

Koala Bear said...

Gosh muslims are desperate to prove that Jesus is not God.

@Ash - you said

"31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.”

That is what Jesus said but islam does not teach that (I assume you have read your own books). We do not worship the same God so why are you so desperate to prove that we are wrong? Could it be that you know deep down that islam is wrong and that mohammed is a false prophet?

Here is a site for you all to read http://isaalmasih.net/

Below is a prayer that you may pray and ask Jesus to come into your heart and life. This is the true plan that God has for your life.

Lord God. I come to You a sinner and I humbly repent of my sins. I believe that Jesus is Lord and I believe You raised Him from the dead. I ask that Jesus will come into my life and be my Lord and Savior. I receive Jesus to change and take control of my life that I may live for Him from this day forth and from now on. Thank You Lord Jesus for saving me and cleansing me with Your precious blood. In Jesus name, Amen.

A.Q said...

http://iamanambassador.blogspot.com/

earn cash said...

In short regardless the religion once you know or observed!!! who would you believe and pray to???? the creator??? or the creations????

Gianni Tosca said...

I do not worship Jesus...as I am a monotheist and believe that only God deserves to be worshipped. Many times Jesus referred to God as being outside of himself. He also prayed to God.
In the Juddaic tradition, the messiah, as revealed by God's word, was to be a savior. He was not be a God. Why would God reveal things to his people and tehn do something totally different? He wouldn't. I follow the example of Jesus but do not worship him and believe that those who do are breaking the first commandment.

Feeko said...

Ok assuming the article is true then Jessus is God and Father is not? same as the Holy spirit? which one is God? How a God can be killed by his creation? and as I understand you believe that Jessus (God) was dead for 3 days... who ran the universe during his death? and who brought him again to life, is their a higher force than God? and how about the other verses that says Jessus was praying? Does God have a God? whom he was praying to? and how a woman (Human) could be pregnant to God and give birth to God? so the God Created this woman and then he went inside her to be born from his creation? and does this make Marry the Mother of God? is she Divine? does not this contradicts with the article that says am the First, Last and no one beneath me? since Marry was first and there are other Gods like Father & Holy spirit who are beneath God?

Foolster41 said...

Sorry to break it to you Muslims, but we have manuscripts from BEFORE Mohammad was EVEN BORN, so unless the Zionist/Christians have a time travel conspiracy to change their religious books, the claim that Islam is a continuation of Islam/Judaism MAKES
NO SENSE.

Source:
http://carm.org/manuscript-evidence

It boggles me that MUSLIMS STILL MAKE THIS OBVIOUSLY FALSE CLAIM.

D335 said...

I believe everyone has heard this: Matthew 7:21

21 “Not everyone who says TO ME, ‘LORD, LORD’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

I wonder what the muslim think what that verse means...

Becki Studer said...

The truth in this world that everyone knows all too well is enough to discount the Qur’an’s legitimacy as a divine writing, in my opinion. All human beings die, so it must be a Law of God. That is Truth.

… it is appointed unto men once to die… -Hebrews 9.27

Death entered this world because of sin. God gave a specific commandment, and it was broken.

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” –Genesis 2.16-17


To die in the flesh, one must be born in the flesh. That is what is meant by being “born again,” which actually translates “born from above.” Man’s spirit is born in the flesh to live and die, and that is why Christ is known as “The Son of Man.” He came to live, die, resurrect and save. Because, you see, there are some who refused to be born in the flesh. Oh yeah…that “son of perdition” signed his own death warrant, along with all of the “fallen angels.” They fell from above; they weren’t born from above.

Every human being dies and loses their blood.

For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul. –Leviticus 17.11


When God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness” (Genesis 1.26), He included Himself. As Satan has done everything he can to cancel out God, there is one thing he wasn’t willing to do that God was: Die for His creation.

Understand this mathematically: In any formula, simplification is achieved by canceling out the equal parts on both sides of an equation ( i.e. E=mc2 started like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E%3Dmc2#Background ). Satan is trying to be God’s equal, so he does what God does. When all is simplified, the only thing that will remain is that our Heavenly Father did what any real father would do for his children.

This is Christ ~ God's Spirit living and dying in the flesh, then resurrected to become The Holy Spirit…YHVH’s Savior, Yehoshua Messiah.

The Scriptures say it so much better than I ever could. Hebrews 9 explains (special attention to vv 16-28 recommended). God has testaments to keep.

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. –Hebrews 9.16-17


http://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-bible-text/Heb-9.html


Islam does not accept any blood sacrifices. If their Allah created this universe, why did he make it that blood is shed in the first place, if not that it was Law for atonement of the soul?

Fernando said...

Hahahahaha... I had not stumble on a soo greatte numer off ignorant muslims in this blog for a wile... just ans exemple:

A.Q. wants us to believe thate the medieval forgery known as the "gospel of barnabas" is the origibnal gospel... lol... hoe man: how dumb can islam make people to be?

Lleychino said...

TO ALL THE MUSLIMS THAT COMMENTED ABOVE:

1 - Did you read the article?

2 - Please provide the Gospel of Jesus that you claim the Christians corrupted (I want to remind you though: Quran 18:27 says, THE WORD OF ALLAH CANNOT BE CORRUPTED. If MEN then could corrupt his word in the gospel, then what kind of god is allah? Since he said that his word cant be corrupted BY MEN).
If your IMAGINARY Gospel of Jesus existed, you definitely are able to give it to us.
'Till then, all you have is MYTH and FANTASY.

3 - Why are you getting out of the topic? Because this article is the answer to your stupid argument?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Lleychino said...

@Hasnain, you said, "there is only one God and there has always been only one religion that is islam
gospel of john chapter 5 verse 30

'I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me'

if he is god y does he say that?

can someone explain..."

You just arrived in the very chapter that not only proves Jesus Diety, but also the Trinity.

First of all, STOP pick and choosing.
Start from Verse 18 (but you can read from verse 1 to see the context of verse 18)
V.18, "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD".
Have you read that? It's in the same John 5.

In Verse 21, Jesus said that HE CAN DO WHATEVER GOD CAN, "For AS THE FATHER RAISETH UP THE DEAD, and quickeneth them; EVEN SO THE SON QUICKENETH WHOM HE WILL".

Can a mere Prophet makes such claim?

Verse 22, "For the Father judgeth no man, but HATH COMMITTED ALL JUDGEMENT UNTO THE SON:"

You see that? Jesus is saying He is the Jugde. Can a mere Prophet say that?

Verse 23, "That ALL MEN SHOULD HONOUR THE SON, EVEN AS THEY HONOUR THE FATHER. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."

DO YOU STILL WANT ME TO CARRY ON????????????

I dont think you actually read the article because David already mentioned all this in it.

So next time, try to read it all before commenting.

Will said...

Hi . Great post , really loved it.

“Violence does not build up the kingdom of God, the kingdom of humanity. On the contrary, it is a favorite instrument of the Antichrist, however idealistic its religious motivation may be,” Pope Benedict XVI .

Hmmm....I wonder who he was talking about? :)

Lleychino said...

@ Hasnain,
you can quote all the quran you want but that doesnt prove that the Bible is corrupt.

And why don't you quote us Surah 53:19-20 too.
Why was Muhammad promoting polyteism?

Do you know that Muhammad claimed to be god?

Sahih al Bukhari 1.13-15:

13. Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is, NONE OF YOU WILL HAVE TILL HE LOVES ME more than his father and his children."

14. Narrated Anas: The Prophet said "NONE OF YOU WILL HAVE FAITH TILL HE LOVES ME more than his father, his children and all mankind."

15. Narrated Anas: The Prophet said, "Whoever possesses the following three qualities will have the sweetness (delight) of faith:
1. The one to whom Allah AND HIS APOSTLE BECOMES DEARER THAN ANYTHING ELSE. 2. Who loves a person and he loves him only for Allah's sake. 3. Who hates to revert to Atheism (disbelief) as he hates to be thrown into the fire."

So a muslim CANNOT HAVE FAITH WITHOUT LOVING MUHAMMAD MORE THAN ANYONE?
Muhammad is faith giver now? That's God's duty not prophet's.

According to the Bible only God gives faith (Romans 12:3, 10:17) and we are told to love GOD with all our heart, soul and body without the prophets included (Deuteronomy 6:5, Matthew 22:37).

If you want to quote Jesus in Matthew 10:37. That's because we know and believe that Jesus is GOD!!!

I believe Muhammad heard about this and try to use it to himself because he thought Jesus was just a prophet.

Also, PLEASE ANSWER THIS QUESTION:

You keep calling Jesus THE MESSIAH (CHRIST). Do you even know what does that mean? Because it has a meaning in Christianity.

And also, Isa is not arabic word for Jesus. So who is this Isa?
And what does Isa mean? Because Jesus means Savior. It is not just a mere name. It is a title!

How can Jesus be Savior if according to Muhammad He didn't die on the Cross?

Cristo Te Ama said...

@earn cash said...
"In short regardless the religion once you know or observed!!! who would you believe and pray to???? the creator??? or the creations????"

The creator of course and thats why we worship Jesus:

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

John 1:10 "He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him."

John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."

Cristo Te Ama said...

@Gianni Tosca said...
"I do not worship Jesus...as I am a monotheist and believe that only God deserves to be worshipped. Many times Jesus referred to God as being outside of himself. He also prayed to God.
In the Juddaic tradition, the messiah, as revealed by God's word, was to be a savior. He was not be a God. Why would God reveal things to his people and tehn do something totally different? He wouldn't. I follow the example of Jesus but do not worship him and believe that those who do are breaking the first commandment."

I suppose you are a Jehova Witness, and i suppose you haven't read i.e John 1, and about the Judaic tradition only considering him a savior but not God, is not an argument because God reveals things at it's proper time, but even so i can see in the bible things that leads us to believe your statement is wrong:

Malchi 1:1“I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the Lord Almighty.

This is fulfilled in the NT but the messenger is Joh the Baptist and Jesus is YHWH (LORD)

Luke 1: 76 “And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest;
For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways,
77 To give knowledge of salvation to His people
By the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God,
With which the Dayspring from on high has visited[e] us;
79 To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death,
To guide our feet into the way of peace.”

80 So the child grew and became strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his manifestation to Israel.


ALSO

Matthew 11:7 "As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? 8 But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments? Indeed, those who wear soft clothing are in kings’ houses. 9 But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. 10 For this is he of whom it is written:


‘Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.’[b]

11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he"

This should be enough to make you think twice, and if you are gonna judge your faith by what the Pharacees believed then most of them didn't believe in a Messiah that would die for their sins with his hands and feet pierced as predicted in the Bible, they believed in a Messiah that would come to kill all their enemies in a human way and "save" them, so you shouldn't be a JW either because Jewish leaders didn't believe what you believe.

Cristo Te Ama said...

@Feeko said...
Ok assuming the article is true then Jessus is God and Father is not? same as the Holy spirit? which one is God? How a God can be killed by his creation? and as I understand you believe that Jessus (God) was dead for 3 days... who ran the universe during his death? and who brought him again to life, is their a higher force than God? and how about the other verses that says Jessus was praying? Does God have a God? whom he was praying to? and how a woman (Human) could be pregnant to God and give birth to God? so the God Created this woman and then he went inside her to be born from his creation? and does this make Marry the Mother of God? is she Divine? does not this contradicts with the article that says am the First, Last and no one beneath me? since Marry was first and there are other Gods like Father & Holy spirit who are beneath God?

Nop you are wrong since the beginnig, we believe Father-Son(Jesus)-and Holy Spirit are one being named YHWH, they are 3 persons in one being, the father is not the son, the son is not the father, the holy spirit is not father or the son, in a simple but not 100% perfect example is like me being flesh-soul-spirit, yet i am one Being named XXXX, so when the son came he got a human form so he could die in a sacrifice for my sins, since the God of the Bible teaches all the sins you commit are a violation of the law and just like that they must be punished, So Jesus took that punishment for me and you (if you accept him), so when Jesus died the father didn't or the HS, and even more Jesus death is his flesh but we don't believe he stopped his spiritual existance.

Then you ask who he prays to, how can he be born of a woman,etc:

He was born of a woman because he needed to come n human form to do his sacrifice, he prayed to the Father in heaven:

Phillipians 2:5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:


6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death —
even death on a cross!



So Jesus humbled himself and came here in total obidience to the Father who is still in Heaven, thats also why Jesus says this in John 17:5 "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."

Then you ask about why Jesus says he is the first if he has a beginning when he was born from Mary, the thing is that Jesus pre existed before he became a man, as John 17:5, John 1:1 etc explains, So when he says he is the beginning he is refering to his pre existance, he didn't begin his existance when he became flesh.

Mary as any other woman in the world is a Human who needs a saviour Luke 1:46 And Mary said:


“My soul glorifies the Lord
47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.

She is not devine yet she was elected by God so we suppose she was a great woman yet in need of a savior. If you say she is the mother of God, you should know you are refering to his Human form, yet God in his spirit preexistance since the beginning before the creation doesn't have a mother.

I didn't understand the las part of your post, Mary wasn't the first, it was "first" than Jesus (human form) but not first than his devine preexistance in Heaven, and as i explained you before we don't believe in 3 differents gods.

aaron said...

@SubhanAllah5
Gospel of Barnabas. it messed up the year of the jubilee once every 100 years when the jews practice it once every 50 and besides that proof of it being written in medieval times was due to a pope messing up the time of jubilee. secondly it got its geological location of Nazareth wrong .Nazareth is 14km from the closes body of water and that so called gospel of yours claims it was a fishing village. You want to claim the church of Alexandria. I challenge you to look up the manuscripts of Iranaeus whom the person who made the claim known as Rahim in his book "How the Gospel of Barnabas Survived". I want your to provide the quotes. You will find none

nice try but no cigar

Mary said...

Very, very well said. Thank you for pointing out the truth in the Bible and giving Christians the means to refute Islamic tagiyya jihadists.

Hezekiah Ahaz said...

To any Muslim:

If "Allah" was alone in the beginning, how did he distinguish himself from non-existence?

Zack_Tiang said...

SubhanAllah5 said...
"If the Gospels from the Holy Scripture were turned into stories about Jesus,why not all of them made it to Bible?" Answer becasue not all stories about Jesus are True.
HOW DO YOU KNOW, DID YOU HAVE JESUS COME IN YOUR DREAM WHEN YOU WERE ALONE TOO?

----

By your own standard, you condemned Muhammad as a false prophet... because frankly, he never met Jesus, whether alone or 'alone'.

Good going, SubhanAllah5.


Great article, Mr David. And it's refreshing to see many Muslim commentors aside from the usual bunch.

Davidsmountain .^. said...

I'm confused, the Gospel states sins are forgiven by the Father and the Son, that Jesus healed the paralytic and forgave his sins in the name of the LORD God, by merely speaking the words, Jesus absolves him of his sins.

Furthermore, "the Qur’an agrees that ultimate forgiveness belongs to God, for it asks, “Who can forgive sins except Allah?” (3:135)." Yet last month, we learned that Allah doesn't exactly forgive the sins of Muslims by his words, but by an action. Allah piles these burdens on the backs of Christians and Jews, which in fact, isn't forgiveness of the sins at all, but merely passing them on to the backs of Christians and Jews, whereby the LORD God forgives adopted Muslim sins, as well as our own? Seems to me, Allah doesn't really have the power to forgive sins at all, he's just the symbiotic between unforgiven Muslims and those truly forgiven, by the word of the LORD God.

Lleychino said...

Muslims are desperate!
And they think we (Christians) are here to compete with them to take over the whole world...
No Muslims, we are here to tell the truth and win the world (men) to God. We are here to save them out of this world.

You can have the whole world (countries), which I am 100% sure that you will NEVER accomplish, but we will save men out of it.

NITEMARES791 said...

YOU SAID
Letitia (The Damsel) said This is true even today. Jacob Neusner, the well-known Jewish scholar, wrote the book, A Rabbi Talks With Jesus, in which he objects to Jesus on the same grounds a Jews in the 1st cent. Neusner is offended at Jesus’ presumption to subject the Torah to His word and says of the book of Matt, “No one can encounter Matthew’s Jesus without concurring that before us in the evangelist’s mind is God incarnate.” In effect, Neusner is asking, “Who do you think you are, Jesus—God?”

MY RESPONSE
Letitia Can I ask you how do you know that your god was right and not those 1st cent. Jews. Any one looking from the outside would say that the Jews were right since your god died. Now of course those who followed him were left embarrassed that the Jews against him won so they made up some myth legend story that he was resurrected. Notice if that were true would he not go to those Jews and show them he was resurrected, even that is not proof, but it will show something, don’t you think.

CallingChristians.com said...

Thoroughly refuted:

http://callingchristians.com/2012/04/30/refutation-where-did-jesus-say-i-am-god-worship-me/

Didn't know David Wood became a Modalist.

Cristo Te Ama said...

NITEMARES791 said...

"MY RESPONSE
Letitia Can I ask you how do you know that your god was right and not those 1st cent. Jews. Any one looking from the outside would say that the Jews were right since your god died. Now of course those who followed him were left embarrassed that the Jews against him won so they made up some myth legend story that he was resurrected. Notice if that were true would he not go to those Jews and show them he was resurrected, even that is not proof, but it will show something, don’t you think."

You say "anyone looking from outside" no, not anyone, just Muslims and Jews who want to reject Jesus as savior.

And about our "God dying" and being embarassing for them, it might be true if Jesus weren't telling before going to Jerusalem that he was going to die and resurrect at the third day there in J'lem, also if it wasn't in the OT i.e Isaiah 53, psalms 22, etc. Also why would they lie to themselves and be willing to die for this lie? in which they were being persecuted by the Romans and the Jews, if they (i.e Paul, Peter, John) made "that Myth", and if they made it up, they did a really good job connecting the Dots from the OT, the sacrifice system, the new pact predicted in Jeremiah 31, etc, sounds to me that if you use that system you would have to reject Islam because it's more likely to be made up by a 7th century pagan guy desiring power,slaes,women,lands,etc.

BTW saying that they made up everything because Jesus has died is anti Islamic because the quran is clear saying Jesus didn't die, so i'm confused, are you Muslim?

HereAmI said...

Genesis ch 1 v 26 says "Let Us make man in Our image". The implication is that God is plural, the Father and the Son. And as every beast brought forth after its own kind, so the only begotten Son, the firstborn of all creation, must also have been brought forth after His own kind, ie the God kind. Not the man kind.
Re. the various implications by Moslems that the gospels are corrupted, it would be useful for them to go to "The Other Bible Code" website, where they will find that the Word of God is underwritten by a complex mathematical / geometrical code which is not visible to the naked eye of the reader, but which is nevertheless there when the strategy of gematria ( fully endorsed by the Lord Himself at Rev 13 v 18 )is utilized. This strategy reveals that the God of Genesis chapter one is the Word of John chapter one.

Letitia (The Damsel) said...

NITEMARES, please go back and reread carefully what I posted. Then ask yourself if your "question" makes any sense.

NITEMARES said:
Letitia Can I ask you how do you know that your god was right and not those 1st cent. Jews. Any one looking from the outside would say that the Jews were right since your god died. Now of course those who followed him were left embarrassed that the Jews against him won so they made up some myth legend story that he was resurrected. Notice if that were true would he not go to those Jews and show them he was resurrected, even that is not proof, but it will show something, don’t you think.

I'm not sure what you are asking. The theism of the 1st century Jews is the theism of Jesus, who was a 1st century Jew and that of His disciples, also 1st century Jews.

Of course Jesus' followers were put in a difficult position at the time of Jesus' death, even though He told them on several occasions that the Messiah must die and then rise again on the third day. In fact, His prediction was public knowledge and used at His trial before the Jewish court. The conviction that the Jews heaped on Him was not that Jesus was claiming to be a prophet or another god, but that He is THEIR GOD, YHWH, the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jacob. Muslims must deal with the very fact that Jesus did claim to be the Judge over the living and the dead, with eternity dependent on one's belief in who HE is. We would not misunderstand anyone making that same claim today, so why not recognize Jesus' obvious claim to deity in the same words? His contemporaries did--that's why they crucified Him.

Actually, the situation is even worse than what you mention. Under the Jewish paradigm, one was considered cursed by God if he died by hanging on a "tree" (and crucifixion was looked on as hanging on a tree). So, Jesus not only blasphemed and proclaimed Himself God, He died in the worst way possible, signifying God's rejection and cursing on Him.

Notice if that were true would he not go to those Jews and show them he was resurrected... Well, He did not go to the Jews in fact. Your point is confused. Read the Gospels yourself and get the story straight.

The disciples, therefore, were not in a place of power to proclaim anything. The Jewish paradigm that they all lived under did not speak of a Messiah who would die accursed by God. And neither did they understand anything but the Resurrection that would happen at the end of the age, not immediately. Small in number and subject to arrest and execution themselves, they found themselves outlaws to the only civil and religious authorities they had ever known. There was no motivation for them to make up anything, for to expose themselves was a great risk of death.

YET, these same disciples transformed overnight from fugitives to evangelists who willingly accepted their martyrdom for proclaiming Jesus' resurrection. They had lost faith in Jesus, so where did they find it again if not for Jesus Himself appearing to them and teaching them just as the Gospels say? People do not willingly die for proclaiming something they know is untrue.

If the Resurrected Jesus is untrue, then why did no one produce His body? Why did the Pharisees bribe the Roman soldiers to lie and say the body was stolen when it would have been impossible to steal it if not to cover up the fact that Jesus' tomb was empty? How did 500 people at once see the risen Jesus? Why did Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea become believers? Why did Jesus' brother James become a believer? And why did Saul believe in Jesus when he had no reason to? Why does the story say that women were the first to encounter the risen Jesus? If you are a Muslim, you must consider that if you reject the Resurrection, you reject the reason the Gospel exists.

Derek Adams said...

CallingChristians on his blog said:

"This is problematic for David, when one has read his article, he asserts that Isaiah 44:6, refers to the LORD or YaHWeH, for Christians that would be the Father. It’s a problem because if The Lord is the Father and the Trinitarian Godhead makes it clear that while both the Father and the Son are God, the Father isn’t the Son, nor is the Son the Father. Since this is the case it doesn’t matter what Jesus claims as he cannot be YHWH from Isaiah 44:6. "

Yeah you're rebuttal doesn't understand basic Christian doctrine. All three persons are LORD(YHVH). YHVH is not an exclusive name for the Father that cannot be applied to the Son. But let's assume "the first and the last" is an exclusive title for God the Father, then Jesus (a person distinct from the Father), claimed the very title of the Father, which belongs to God alone. You still have the case of Shirk. A creature claims to be God or have the same attribute of God, share in his nature.

"Following from that logic, he also cannot be Allaah from Qur’an 57:3, because of Qur’an 112:3."

This doesn't follow. "First and Last" is an exclusive title that is given to Allah alone. Anyone else claiming that is claiming to be Allah, whether they are claiming to be the Islamic Allah it's quite clear, Jesus is not claiming to be the Islamic Allah (who has no children), rather he is claiming to be the Biblical God, the Son. The reason for quoting the Quran is to point out even Allah claims to be the first and the last, like Jesus, and this title functions as an exlusive title of Allah aswell.

"The final question which begs itself, is this is all a dream from John, as he references the Book of Revelation or the Revelation of John (a dream), therefore I must ask David, if any Christian gets a dream about Jesus claiming something, would he also accept it as the truth? As an example, if I dreamed that Jesus claimed he wasn’t the first or the last, would he also accept it as divinely inspired revelation?"

When Allah showed them to you IN YOUR DREAM as few; and if He had shown them to you as many you would certainly have become weak-hearted and you would have disputed about the matter, but Allah saved (you); surely He is the Knower of what is in the breasts. S. 8:43 Shakir

And when he attained to working with him, he [Abraham] said: O my son! surely I have seen IN A DREAM that I should sacrifice you; consider then what you see. He said: O my father! do what you are commanded; if Allah please, you will find me of the patient ones. S. 37:102 Shakir

Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers) The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright day light...(Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3)

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The (good) dream of a faithful believer is a part of the forty-six parts of prophetism." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 117)

Derek Adams said...

The further errors pressupose the same fallacy that Jesus is not YHVH. (With a hole bunch more fallacies on top).

But maybe this will get the Christians started.

But if this guy was honest enough, he would just go the route that Shabir Ally has chosen, which is to admit the Bible teaches these things, and then say the Bible is corrupt or has an evolving christology.

Then we don't need to waste time on idiotic rebuttals like this.

Aqsa_Brigades said...

@Derek Adams,

Scroll down to my article, I've updated it and answered your claims specifically in the update:

http://callingchristians.com/2012/04/30/refutation-where-did-jesus-say-i-am-god-worship-me/

aaron said...

@derek
John 8:58 if read in full context pretty much makes calling Christians claim that you quoted false straight of the. Because he refers to himself as I am and every knows that God refers to himself as " i am". reason why Jews through stones at him because he he used God's name for himself.

enough said this pretty much demolishes anything he could come up with on his claim that Jesus did not share the name "i am" . what a waste of time writing those articles if he doesn't even understand the theology of it.

Derek Adams said...

CallingChristians,

You are a deceiving conniving snake and your distortion of Sam Shamouns article is as low as it gets.

This is a brilliant example of mohammadan apologetics at it's best (and therefore by default the worst), quote out of context and completely manipulate the information like the great Allah the deceiver.

Here is the FULL CONTEXT AND QUOTATION OF SAM SHAMOUNS POINTS:

"Yahweh is a tri-Personal Being, eternally existing as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

In Trinitarian understanding the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit can be identified as Yahweh either individually or collectively, since all three are God fully and eternally. To break this down further note that:

All three Divine Persons can be identified as Yahweh God collectively.

Each specific Person can be identified as Yahweh. For example, the Father can be identified as Yahweh apart from the other members of the Godhead without this implying that the Son and the Spirit are not Yahweh as well. The same is true in the case of the Son or the Spirit, i.e. either one can be addressed as Yahweh apart from the other members without this meaning that the rest are not Yahweh God.

Since there are three distinct Persons of God one Person can become the Servant of the Other without that Person ceasing to be God.

One of the Divine members of the Trinity became the Servant of another Divine member, i.e. the

Father sent the Son to be his Servant without this implying that the Son is not Yahweh or that the Son became his own Servant.

Moreover, since the Father can be identified as Yahweh in isolation from the others, the Son can therefore be identified as Yahweh's Servant."

http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Osama/zawadi_yahweh.htm

NAILED.

Derek Adams said...

Calling Christians also said:

"a Prophet in Islam is a Rasul who is the vessel through which the Risalat (Message) is revealed. So the Rasul can receive the Risalat in a variation of ways, as that is their purpose in this world, to deliver the revelation of God."

Note his criterion.

1 "A vessel which the message is revealed"

2 "Message can be received in a variety of ways (including dreams and visions"

3 "deliver the revelation of God"

Now note Revelation 1:1

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and [a]communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John

Revelation 1:1 therefore proves that according to Islamic understanding of a Messenger, John qualifies as a messenger.

He is a vessel. He receives the message through an angel and a dream. (variety of ways). He delivers this message to his bondsman. All three criterion are fulfilled making John a messenger of God by his own standard.

All of this is of course a smokescreen to deny the obvious fact. Allah, YHVH and Jesus ALL claim to be the "first and the last" a title exclusively for GOD ALONE.

Dawah Refuted said...

Muslims will find themselves in dilemma if they keep on denying that Jesus does express His Divinity in the gospel.

Jesus saying I'm The Truth is similar with the sentence "Anna Al-Haqq/ I'm The Truth" spoken by a sufi named Al Hallaj ( 244 AH – 309 AH) that had made him executed because of blasphemy for claiming to be divine. Muslims are just not being sincere if they don't want to admit this.

As Abrahamic religion muslim and christian know very well fundamental attributes such as The Truth, The First & The Last, The All-Mighty,etc can only be applied to God. The only way for muslims to deny the similarity of Al Halaj statement &Jesus's is by disassociating themselves from abrahamic belief
--------------
Wahabist muslim fails to recognize that Trinity is not 3 GODS but 1 God who consists of 3 fundamental unseparated parts(hypostasis). In fact Wahabi muslim should be the one who agrees with christian because after all Wahabi believes Allah also consists of parts (eyes,ears,mouths and etc),

No muslim can say Allah' head is "Higher" than Allah's foot OR Allah's ear is More All-Hearing then Allah's mouth

Muslim especially Wahabi won't be able to deny that Allah's leg is as Allah as His face though functions differently or Allah's mouth is as Allah as Allah's ear. The same with Christian, The Father is as God as the Son and Holy Spirit though each functions differently.

However it will be absurd to say Allah's mouth can hear or Allah stands with His head. That's also why it's hillarious when wahabists demand The Father has to function the exact same way as The Son or Holy Spirit.

If the wahabists want to be consistent with their demand toward christian (ALL THREE UNSEPARATED PARTS of God should be absolutely interchangeable) then they must apply the same measure toward their own religion that ALL PARTS OF ALLAH SHOULD ALSO BE INTERCHANGEABLE (which would mean Allah's mouth could hear as Allah's ear could.) .

Hattem Eldoronki said...

Look at the big picture, and find the answers by yourself.
We all agree that God Allah is perfect, cannot sin. He NEEDS NOTHING. He OWNS EVERYTHING. If He wanted us all to be believers He would have created us as such. Therefore, he never walked on this earth. If Jesus was God, he would have made all earth people believers, and that would have been the end of this world. And if Jesus who you claim to be God the Light had died, then there could be no more light on Earth. If Jesus was a God that died, then God cannot be perfect, therefore it is impossible. If God had a son, he would never let him die for our sake, and if that son was a half God, then he could probably stop his own "death". Why would a master kill his son for the sake of a slave? God Allah is bigger than Jesus, bigger than Mohammed, and bigger than anything else besides Himself combined. Religions are not made to teach peace, although they do carry that message. Religions and prophets are sent to lead to the oneness of God. Every religion is so clear about this except Christianity, because the bible that you have today is not the word of God Allah in pure form. Therefore it is not a resource that we can depend upon to draw proofs. Show me two bibles from two christian sects that are carbon-copies. Furthermore, show me two bibles from two different-language countries that are the same.
Use your head. Look around and meditate. Forget science. Forget the Koran and your bible. Allah gave us brains to use and find the truth on our own. The Koran is a tool that enhances and directs our relationship with our Creator, in the way that He prefers.

aaron said...

@hattem
ROFL you do understand christian theology.

Go look up how uthman compiled the quran. IT was messed up in its original language already rofl. we have manuscripts from the dead sea scrolls that are our modern day translations.

"If Jesus was a God that died, then God cannot be perfect, therefore it is impossible"

are you saying that god can;t come to earth die a physical death and ressurect himself? Because God died and resurrected is what made him god it showed that he is above the mortal realm and further prove that he is omnipotent and all powerful. If Jesus died and stayed dead then i would have issues.

"If He wanted us all to be believers He would have created us as such. Therefore, he never walked on this earth. If Jesus was God, he would have made all earth people believers, and that would have been the end of this world."

now this is hilarious, what is the point of creating a bunch of mindless slaves without free will. It is better that people choose to worship god with their own free will then to have a bunch of mindless slaves who serve you because that defeats the purpose of worship. But wait your argument get worst you are saying that IF Allah wanted he would create us all as believers and if Jesus was god he would create everyone as believers.

"Why would a master kill his son for the sake of a slave?"
God created the world pure of taint in the beginning. what is the point of creating something when you don;t care about it? If you have a large vault with everything you worked hard to create in it and someone burns the vault. would you not risk yourself try to save what you can from it? This is what god is doing. dying for sins is a payment of god to save what he can from it and he further showed his glory from coming back from it

"Religions and prophets are sent to lead to the oneness of God" you are woefully ignorant, Hindu, Buddhist also, traditional Chinese religions and much more worship more then one god

" Furthermore, show me two bibles from two different-language countries that are the same. "

bravo bravo this is hilarious are you saying that the word of God can not be translated? because that makes? Because if you do then you just saying that god is not omnipotent because his message is limited by to one form of human language.

I can still capture the meaning of what the original writer wants to say in another language through the process of translation i might prefer to use a different set of words with the same meaning.

Here is some advice from yourself " use you head" and get your facts right before making such claims.

NITEMARES791 said...

YOU SAID
Letitia (The Damsel) has left a new comment on the post "Where Did Jesus Say, "I Am God, Worship Me"?":

NITEMARES, please go back and reread carefully what I posted. Then ask yourself if your "question" makes any sense.

MY RESPONSE
Not only will I go back I will post it here. Can you read what you wrote.
"I say to you”/”I tell you” statements – Jesus often used these phrases to assert authority to change a concept of Jewish law or tradition by either contradicting it or correcting its present interpretation. For example, on divorce, Jesus assumes authority over Moses and contradicts Mosaic tradition (Matt. 19:8-9). And again, “For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 5:20).
You are claiming that since your god said the laws have changed he must be correct so I asked you how do you know he was correct and not the Jews at that time. What is so hard for you to understand.

YOU SAID
NITEMARES said:
Letitia Can I ask you how do you know that your god was right and not those 1st cent. Jews. Any one looking from the outside would say that the Jews were right since your god died. Now of course those who followed him were left embarrassed that the Jews against him won so they made up some myth legend story that he was resurrected. Notice if that were true would he not go to those Jews and show them he was resurrected, even that is not proof, but it will show something, don’t you think.

I'm not sure what you are asking. The theism of the 1st century Jews is the theism of Jesus, who was a 1st century Jew and that of His disciples, also 1st century Jews.
MY RESPONSE
You just said before that I quoted you cause you told me to reread it. Let me remind you from a second ago you wrote Jesus often used these phrases to assert authority to change a concept of Jewish law or tradition by either contradicting it or correcting its present interpretation. So he wasn’t teaching the theism of the 1st cenrury according to your own words.
(to be continued)

NITEMARES791 said...

YOU SAID
Of course Jesus' followers were put in a difficult position at the time of Jesus' death, even though He told them on several occasions that the Messiah must die and then rise again on the third day. In fact, His prediction was public knowledge and used at His trial before the Jewish court. The conviction that the Jews heaped on Him was not that Jesus was claiming to be a prophet or another god, but that He is THEIR GOD, YHWH, the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jacob.
MY RESPONSE
Obviously you have no clue to what the Jewish religion teaches had your god said that he was a god he would have been killed no need for a court or anything. I Challenge you to show me one writing of your god before he died predicting his death. All these predictions were written after he died. Many people after 9/11 claimed they predicted it before. Also there was no trial this was all made up again by your false guys like you said for being embarrassed their god died.

YOU SAID
Muslims must deal with the very fact that Jesus did claim to be the Judge over the living and the dead, with eternity dependent on one's belief in who HE is. We would not misunderstand anyone making that same claim today, so why not recognize Jesus' obvious claim to deity in the same words? His contemporaries did--that's why they crucified Him.

MY RESPONSE
Yes I agree with you that according to the muslims they would have to believe as you say since they ask where he said it. However not being a muslim myself and since all Christian rooms on pal talk are run by terrorist Christians who do not allow to question I ask them here. Excuse me anyone claiming today that they are a god would be sent to the mental hospital. They killed him because he was false and the only way to prove he was false was to kill him since the true G-D cannot die. They didn’t know you were going to come up with some bull story about resurrection etc.

YOU SAID
Actually, the situation is even worse than what you mention. Under the Jewish paradigm, one was considered cursed by God if he died by hanging on a "tree" (and crucifixion was looked on as hanging on a tree). So, Jesus not only blasphemed and proclaimed Himself God, He died in the worst way possible, signifying God's rejection and cursing on Him.

MY RESPONSE
I don’t know where you got this from can you show me any where in the Jewish paradigm where it teaches this that if you are hung on a tree you are cursed. Seems you know nothing of Jewish paradigms but are easily able to talk. “signifying God's rejection and cursing on Him” However comes you liars and makes it all good.
(to be continued)

NITEMARES791 said...

YOU SAID
Notice if that were true would he not go to those Jews and show them he was resurrected... Well, He did not go to the Jews in fact. Your point is confused. Read the Gospels yourself and get the story straight.
MY RESPONSE
Obviously you don’t know how to read I said he did not go to the Jews and you said same thing so why are you telling me to go get the story straight.

YOU SAID
The disciples, therefore, were not in a place of power to proclaim anything. The Jewish paradigm that they all lived under did not speak of a Messiah who would die accursed by God. And neither did they understand anything but the Resurrection that would happen at the end of the age, not immediately. Small in number and subject to arrest and execution themselves, they found themselves outlaws to the only civil and religious authorities they had ever known. There was no motivation for them to make up anything, for to expose themselves was a great risk of death.

MY RESPONSE
First why people do things is not a question to be asked people rape people rob banks people do all sorts of crazy things that does not make them true. Second what are you talking about of course they had motivation they lost to the Rabbis their god was lying dead. So they made up this lying story about resurrection bla bla bla etc. It is all a lie do you got it.
(to be continued)

NITEMARES791 said...

YOU SAID
YET, these same disciples transformed overnight from fugitives to evangelists who willingly accepted their martyrdom for proclaiming Jesus' resurrection. They had lost faith in Jesus, so where did they find it again if not for Jesus Himself appearing to them and teaching them just as the Gospels say? People do not willingly die for proclaiming something they know is untrue.

MY RESPONSE
Again shows your lack of knowledge millions of people died proclaiming things they thought were true. Ask the dead followers of Jim Jones ask the communists ask millions who followed and died for all sorts of false religions or cults. In fact you should become a muslim now, they die every day for their god.

YOU SAID
If the Resurrected Jesus is untrue, then why did no one produce His body? Why did the Pharisees bribe the Roman soldiers to lie and say the body was stolen when it would have been impossible to steal it if not to cover up the fact that Jesus' tomb was empty? How did 500 people at once see the risen Jesus? Why did Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea become believers? Why did Jesus' brother James become a believer? And why did Saul believe in Jesus when he had no reason to? Why does the story say that women were the first to encounter the risen Jesus? If you are a Muslim, you must consider that if you reject the Resurrection, you reject the reason the Gospel exists.
MY RESPONSE
Who told you the Pharisees bribed anyone. I explained it to you let me explain it again. Your followers were embarrassed that they were following a false guy since he died so they made up stories about his resurrection. Who are these 500 people can you name two of them.
Tell me something, here are Christians who converted to Judaism so will you leave Christianity now. So why do you Christians always bring up the first followers of your god were Jewish as if that means your god was sanctioned by the Jewish. This is false we don’t know if they were Jewish at all like I said all your books are made up after the fact.

http://www.amazon.com/Ordained-Be-Jew-Catholic-Conversion/dp/0881254126
List of converts to Judaism from Christianity
Former Christian clergy/theologians
Nicolas Antoine, was a French-Christian Protestant theologian
William G. Dever, a former evangelical minister who converted to Judaism and became a world-renowned Biblical scholar
Ahuva Gray, a former Protestant Minister
Asher Wade, former Methodist Minister
Ole Brunell, former Lutheran Minister. Shlomo Ben Avraham "Ole" Brunell, former Lutheran minister from Finland and Australia. Along with him, his wife Ruth (formerly Runa), two adult daughters, two teenage daughters, and a former son-in-law also converted.[68]
Skipp Porteous, former Pentecostal minister

Cristo Te Ama said...

NITEMARE said:

"Tell me something, here are Christians who converted to Judaism so will you leave Christianity now. So why do you Christians always bring up the first followers of your god were Jewish as if that means your god was sanctioned by the Jewish. This is false we don’t know if they were Jewish at all like I said all your books are made up after the fact."

You qoted some names of former Christians who converted to Judaism, i guess that if we look for historical data of these Christians we will find that they actually were Christians right? The same happens with John, Peter, Paul, etc, there is historical data out of the Bible that says they were Jews when they converted, then you also said that there are many ppl who has died for false religions and that it doesn't prove anything, but there are some differences, it wasn't one guy convinced of something (i.e Charles Manson) preaching some random stuffs to some ppl converting them (i.e La familia), as these cults does, you even mention the communism, but most of these ppl sent ppl to kill and die for their beliefs but they weren't so willing to go themselves for the world in a peaceful way preaching it risking their lifes, also it wasn't just a guy it was many of them (at least 12) preaching it, risking their lifes for something they saw and touch, but if you keep saying that the bible is false, and you are not to believe so, then you are debating nothing, you are just playing with yourself making some randoms questions and answering to yourself.

PS: What is your belief? Jews, Muslim, Atheist?

Cristo Te Ama said...

NITEMARES said:

"Obviously you have no clue to what the Jewish religion teaches had your god said that he was a god he would have been killed no need for a court or anything. I Challenge you to show me one writing of your god before he died predicting his death. All these predictions were written after he died. Many people after 9/11 claimed they predicted it before. Also there was no trial this was all made up again by your false guys like you said for being embarrassed their god died."

We have predictions of his death and resurrection i.e Isaiah 53. So we don't have to doubt about he saying he woul die for our sins and would resurrect,because he was just saying what was written many centuries before.


NITEMARES also said:

"Excuse me anyone claiming today that they are a god would be sent to the mental hospital. They killed him because he was false and the only way to prove he was false was to kill him since the true G-D cannot die. They didn’t know you were going to come up with some bull story about resurrection etc."

I can see now you are Jew, you tell her that they killed him, may i ask how do you know they killed him? also you said "they didn't know they were going to come up with some bull story about resurrection etc", as i said he said this before dying and it's also predicted, but now that i know you are Jew i'm shocked about what you wrote saying "Challenge you to show me one writing of your god before he died predicting his death. All these predictions were written after he died. Many people after 9/11 claimed they predicted it before. Also there was no trial this was all made up again by your false guys like you said for being embarrassed their god died."... WOW i will have to ask you something, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT ISRAEL WAS PROMISED TO ABRAHAM SEED, SPECIALLY ISAAC? IT WAS WRITTEN BY MOSES (AN ISAAC DESCENDANT) MANY CENTURIES LATER, SO IT WAS EASY TO SAY SO BECAUSE THEY WERE SHAMED OF NOT HAVING A LAND OF THEIR OWN AND THEY WANTED IT SO MUCH THAT THEY HAD TO MAKE THIS UP, I THINK A MUSLIMS USING YOUR SAME REASONING COULD SAY THE SAME, SPECIALLY A PALESTINIAN, BUT IT WOULD BE AWESOME TYO HEAR YOUR RESPONSE WHICH WOULD SAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS: "THE TORAH SAYS SO" SO PLZ STOP BEING HIPOCRITICAL AND TRY TO BE HONEST WITH YOUR ARGUMENTS AND "RESPONSES"

NITEMARES791 said...

Cristo Te Ama Said

We have predictions of his death and resurrection i.e Isaiah 53

My response
Hello i can see you are a chrisitian, before I respond to you, and it may take a few days, can you answer two questions for me.

First question, who is this Isaiah 53 that you mention here is he a football player?. Second, you claim that your god came to sacrifice himself and die for every ones sins. The question is why did he come at that particular time and no other time in history to do that.

THANK YOU
http://unsavoryislam.blogspot.com/
http://www.memri.org/subject/en/840.htm.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
PETER

Royal Son said...

NIGHTMARE: As a response to your two questions:

1. Is Isaiah a football player?
A: Yes. His team just pwned "the nightmares". It was pretty brutal and to be expected. The Nightmares were at the bottom of the table and really playing out of their league.

2. Why did Jesus die when He died and not some other arbitrary time?

A: Because if he chose another time, some idiot would ask "Why did he do it at that time and not another?"

NITEMARES791 said...

Royal Son Said NIGHTMARE: As a response to your two questions:

1. Is Isaiah a football player?
A: Yes. His team just pwned "the nightmares". It was pretty brutal and to be expected. The Nightmares were at the bottom of the table and really playing out of their league.

2. Why did Jesus die when He died and not some other arbitrary time?

A: Because if he chose another time, some idiot would ask "Why did he do it at that time and not another?"



MY Response

1. So can you tell me why the other Christian is telling me that a football player proves his god.




2. I guess I would be that idiot. So you have no answer. Do you think you should follow an illogical god. Actually according to Christianity there was absolutely no need for your god to have come at the time he came. However if he would have come and complete every thing that the real messiah was to complete than it makes all the sense why he would have come at that time. (WHICH WAS TO SAVE THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.)

Foolster41 said...

I thought it was a really dumb joke pretending to be ignorant, but are you serous about Isiah 53? You really don't understand what it really is? (Hint it's in a book that supposed to be revered by your religion) Do yo really not understand Royal Son's sarcastic answer your ignorant question?

Truthseeker said...

My dear Christian and Muslim brother and sister..... I am a Muslim and im proud to be a Muslim. I know some Christians who are very honest with religious conversation, but there are some who not only from Christians but also from other religion including Muslim, they have no interest in finding the truth but searching how to feed their egos.

Well some people might think that why did i include some Muslim as I am too Muslim?

Because it is true that some people are just named to be Muslim but they don't have the things what a true Muslim should required. If we try to tell them about the truth, some argue, some ignore, some listen and then again get lost in their daily life. These kinds of people are just after to feed their egos and needs.

So think for a moment, if a person from among Muslim can be like this then what is there to be surprise seeing same person in other religions. When shaitan revolted Allah, he promised that he will mislead Adam and his offspring and thats what is happening.

Therefore I say to the people who dont believe me

Sura 109 (Al Kafirun)

Say, "O disbelievers,I do not worship what you worship. Nor are you worshippers of what I worship. Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship. Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship. For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

NITEMARES791 said...

Cristo Te Ama said...
NITEMARE said:
"Tell me something, here are Christians who converted to Judaism so will you leave Christianity now. So why do you Christians always bring up the first followers of your god were Jewish as if that means your god was sanctioned by the Jewish. This is false we don’t know if they were Jewish at all like I said all your books are made up after the fact."

Cristo Te Ama said
You qoted some names of former Christians who converted to Judaism, i guess that if we look for historical data of these Christians we will find that they actually were Christians right?

My Response.
I don’t know the same thing I can say when you post Jewish converts to Christianity,
Cristo Te Ama said
The same happens with John, Peter, Paul, etc, there is historical data out of the Bible that says they were Jews when they converted,
My Response
Actually the OT never mentions them they are only mentioned in your book which may not necessarily be true.
Cristo Te Ama said
then you also said that there are many ppl who has died for false religions and that it doesn't prove anything, but there are some differences, it wasn't one guy convinced of something (i.e Charles Manson) preaching some random stuffs to some ppl converting them (i.e La familia), as these cults does, you even mention the communism, but most of these ppl sent ppl to kill and die for their beliefs but they weren't so willing to go themselves for the world in a peaceful way preaching it risking their lifes, also it wasn't just a guy it was many of them (at least 12) preaching it, risking their lifes for something they saw and touch, but if you keep saying that the bible is false, and you are not to believe so, then you are debating nothing, you are just playing with yourself making some randoms questions and answering to yourself.
My Response
You can make all the distinctions you want if that is the case there were more Jewish Rabbis martyred than Christian high priests. So would that mean you should convert to Judaism?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyr

According to W. H. C. Frend: “Judaism was itself a religion of martyrdom” and it was this “Jewish psychology of martyrdom” that inspired Christian martyrdom

This proves you wrong.
The Sikh Gurus and Sikh with and after them are the biggest examples of martyrs. They fought against Mughal tyranny and oppression hence upholding the fundamentals of Sikhism. And in which their lives were taken. During protesting non-violently or in battles.

Let me ask you has your god ever rescued any of these martyrs. I suggest you read Daniel.

Cristo Te Ama said
PS: What is your belief? Jews, Muslim, Atheist?

My Response
Jews

NITEMARES791 said...

Cristo Te Ama said...
NITEMARES said:
"Obviously you have no clue to what the Jewish religion teaches had your god said that he was a god he would have been killed no need for a court or anything. I Challenge you to show me one writing of your god before he died predicting his death. All these predictions were written after he died. Many people after 9/11 claimed they predicted it before. Also there was no trial this was all made up again by your false guys like you said for being embarrassed their god died."

We have predictions of his death and resurrection i.e Isaiah 53. So we don't have to doubt about he saying he woul die for our sins and would resurrect,because he was just saying what was written many centuries before.

My Response

Can you show me any where in Isaiah 53 where it says this about your god. If you can find it ill give you twenty five million like I give the Muslims. I had asked you who was Isaiah 53 it seems you could not answer but another answered for you (Hint it's in a book that supposed to be revered by your religion). The reason it is a revered book is because he was a prophet as you mentioned by saying predictions which of course is false he say prophecies hence he is called a prophet. Now isn’t it funny Christians constantly claim Jews rejected the Prophets yet we have their books and revere them.

Now I ask you how you know that Isaiah was a prophet or a revered man that you say his predictions are true. Are you not relying on the Jews that tell you he was a prophet? So it seems that the Jews know who is a prophet or not. Well we tell you that your god was no god or prophet.
(To be continued)

NITEMARES791 said...

Cristo Te Ama saidNITEMARES also said:

"Excuse me anyone claiming today that they are a god would be sent to the mental hospital. They killed him because he was false and the only way to prove he was false was to kill him since the true G-D cannot die. They didn’t know you were going to come up with some bull story about resurrection etc."
Cristo Te Ama said
I can see now you are Jew, you tell her that they killed him, may i ask how do you know they killed him?

My Response

Because the Bible says to kill false prophets.
Cristo Te Ama said
also you said "they didn't know they were going to come up with some bull story about resurrection etc", as i said he said this before dying

My Response

Yes I know you keep telling me that but how do you know it is true I told you that your books were made up after the fact.

Cristo Te Ama said
and it's also predicted, but now that i know you are Jew i'm shocked about what you wrote saying "Challenge you to show me one writing of your god before he died predicting his death. All these predictions were written after he died. Many people after 9/11 claimed they predicted it before. Also there was no trial this was all made up again by your false guys like you said for being embarrassed their god died."... WOW

My Response

Tell me something is this the first time any one has ever told you the truth that you are so surprised.

Cristo Te Ama said
i will have to ask you something, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT ISRAEL WAS PROMISED TO ABRAHAM SEED, SPECIALLY ISAAC? IT WAS WRITTEN BY MOSES (AN ISAAC DESCENDANT) MANY CENTURIES LATER, SO IT WAS EASY TO SAY SO BECAUSE THEY WERE SHAMED OF NOT HAVING A LAND OF THEIR OWN AND THEY WANTED IT SO MUCH THAT THEY HAD TO MAKE THIS UP,
My Response

Good points you make read the answer and know the truth. This Bible was given to the people at the time they witnessed all the miracles. The Bible and you Christians testify that the Jews are a stubborn people. So if it was not true the Jews would have said hey all these miracles that you say happened to us never happened it was not written later like your people wrote it after your god died. My G-D made sure that every one believed in him so much that if you read it says so you should know. Two whole nations saw the works of the true creator and they believed. The Bible also says the people did go into Israel and miraculously won the wars. Neither your god nor the muslim god was and is able to do anything remotely close to that. So now you know the difference.

(To be continued)

NITEMARES791 said...

Read these verses carefully.
Exodus Chapter 11:10 And Moses and Aaron did all these wonders before Pharaoh; and the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not let the children of Israel go out of his land.
Exodus Chapter 12:29 And it came to pass at midnight, that the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the first-born of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the first-born of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the first-born of cattle. 30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead. 31 And he called for Moses and Aaron by night and said: 'Rise up, get you forth from among my people, both ye and the children of Israel; and go, serve the LORD, as ye have said. 32 Take both your flocks and your herds, as ye have said, and be gone; and bless me also.'
Exodus Chapter 13:11 And it shall be when the LORD shall bring thee into the land of the Canaanite, as He swore unto thee and to thy fathers, and shall give it thee
Exodus Chapter 14:31 And Israel saw the great work which the LORD did upon the Egyptians, and the people feared the LORD; and they believed in the LORD, and in His servant Moses.
(To be continued)
Exodus Chapter 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying.
Exodus Chapter 20:14 And all the people perceived the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the voice of the horn, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled, and stood afar off. 15 And they said unto Moses: 'Speak thou with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Deuteronomy Chapter 4:10 the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me: 'Assemble Me the people, and I will make them hear My words that they may learn to fear Me all the days that they live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.' 11 And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the heart of heaven, with darkness, cloud, and thick darkness. 12 And the LORD spoke unto you out of the midst of the fire; ye heard the voice of words, but ye saw no form; only a voice. 13 And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the ten words; and He wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Deuteronomy Chapter4:33 Did ever a people hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as thou hast heard, and live? 34 Or hath God assayed to go and take Him a nation from the midst of another nation, by trials, by signs, and by wonders, and by war, and by a mighty hand, and by an outstretched arm, and by great terrors, according to all that the LORD your God did for you in Egypt before thine eyes? 35 Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD, He is God; there is none else beside Him. 36 Out of heaven He made thee to hear His voice, that He might instruct thee; and upon earth He made thee to see His great fire; and thou didst hear His words out of the midst of the fire.
Cristo Te Ama said
I THINK A MUSLIMS USING YOUR SAME REASONING COULD SAY THE SAME, SPECIALLY A PALESTINIAN, BUT IT WOULD BE AWESOME TYO HEAR YOUR RESPONSE WHICH WOULD SAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS: "THE TORAH SAYS SO" SO PLZ STOP BEING HIPOCRITICAL AND TRY TO BE HONEST WITH YOUR ARGUMENTS AND "RESPONSES
My Response

I am not being hypocritical and we do not claim that the land is ours because a book says so. We are claiming it because we went into the land and killed the muslims and took their land. I’m glad you mentioned that, that is another reason Jews don’t proselytize because we don’t expect you to believe because a book says so. However you Christians proselytize especially to Jews so you have to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

NITEMARES791 said...

Foolster41 said...
I thought it was a really dumb joke pretending to be ignorant, but are you serous about Isiah 53? You really don't understand what it really is? (Hint it's in a book that supposed to be revered by your religion) Do yo really not understand Royal Son's sarcastic answer your ignorant question?

My response
Read my above response and I answer why I asked this.

NITEMARES791 said...

Truthseeker SAID My dear Christian and Muslim brother and sister..... I am a Muslim and im proud to be a Muslim. I know some Christians who are very honest with religious conversation, but there are some who not only from Christians but also from other religion including Muslim, they have no interest in finding the truth but searching how to feed their egos.

My response
I don't think any muslim has an interest in finding the truth.

Truthseeker SAID
Well some people might think that why did i include some Muslim as I am too Muslim?

My response
No, I dont think anyone thought that they knew why you said that the reason being so you should sound more credible.

Truthseeker SAID
Because it is true that some people are just named to be Muslim but they don't have the things what a true Muslim should required. If we try to tell them about the truth, some argue, some ignore, some listen and then again get lost in their daily life. These kinds of people are just after to feed their egos and needs.

My response
So why doesn't your allah send a prophet to them. Your allah claimed in his book that you would not need anymore prophets since you will all follow islam. So it seems your allah did not tell the truth. Now if you claim that if your allah would send a prophet they will not listen so it seems you muslims are the same that you claim the Jews are, not listeners to prophets.

Truthseeker SAID
So think for a moment, if a person from among Muslim can be like this then what is there to be surprise seeing same person in other religions. When shaitan revolted Allah, he promised that he will mislead Adam and his offspring and thats what is happening.

My response
So why didn't your all powerful allah kill this satan why does he let him mislead doesn't your allah love worshipers.

(to be continued)

NITEMARES791 said...

Truthseeker SAID
Therefore I say to the people who dont believe meSura 109 (Al Kafirun)
Say, "O disbelievers,I do not worship what you worship. Nor are you worshippers of what I worship. Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship. Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship. For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

My response
This verse is actually a lie. Your prophet probably said this when he was talking to Jews or Christians to make his religion appear peaceful. However when he was talking to muslims he said this.

Do any of these verses sound like "for you is your religion, and for me is my religion." NO.

003.012 YUSUFALI: Say to those who reject Faith: "Soon will ye be vanquished and gathered together to Hell,-an evil bed indeed (to lie on)!

005.068 YUSUFALI: Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith
009.033 YUSUFALI: It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).

009.073 YUSUFALI: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

009.123 PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).



Here your allah in fact made people dead right away for not believing in your prophet. This does not sound like "for you is your religion, and for me is my religion."
23.039 YUSUFALI: (The prophet) said: "O my Lord! help me: for that they accuse me of falsehood."
023.040 YUSUFALI: (Allah) said: "In but a little while, they are sure to be sorry!"
023.041 YUSUFALI: Then the Blast overtook them with justice, and We made them as rubbish of dead leaves (floating on the stream of Time)! So away with the people who do wrong!

Barbara said...

What amazes me is the length people go to prove their own point. We try so hard, challenging the finest points, and dwelling on the infinitesimal details, expounding and waxing great, being very eloquent and using masses of our intelligence and words to say what we have to say, and then saying it over and over in many ways. In this way we make ourselves feel good that we have battled wits and we presume to win.

Jesus finally broke it down to the simplest parts when he said, "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Stop all of your bickering. Ask God for the faith of a child. That is all you need. Do not rest on your own grandiose intelligence. We need to get out of our own way. God is great, God is good. It is only God that can change minds and hearts.

I pray God will reveal Himself to each of you in His own way. I bless each of you for seeking, and pray you find Him if you have not done so already. Open your hearts. Let go of your egos.

chelsia chelladurai said...

amazing article! god bless u sir

0oBonesawo0 said...

WHY DO THE CATHOLICS HAVE MORE BOOKS THAN PROTESTANTS. HOW LONG AFTER JESUS DIED WERE THE NEW TESTAMENT BOOKS WRITTEN? DID JESUS NOT SAY TO THE PEOPLE WHO FELL TO THE GROUND BEFORE HIM. DO NOT WORSHIP ME--BUT YOUR FATHER IN HEAVCEN...OH WHICH LEADS ME TO ASK...
THE PRAYER "OUR FATHER which art in heaven, hallowed bve THY name on earth as it is in heaven. Give US this day OUR daily bread....yada yada...you get my point.
And these apostles, were they physically alive when Isa (Jesus AS)walked the Earth? And who were they, Mathew who? Mark who?
I would have to believe that after translation from Aramaic-Hebrew-Greek...there has to be a tad bit of inconsistencies. Oh...was it not a term used back then to refer to others as the son of God?
Amazing how Abraham, Jesus, they all washed their heads, arms, feet and prostrated when they prayed...much like the orthodox Jews. And who can forget blessed Maryam...she was so modest she wore a hijab.
*sidenote, to reach Paradise a Muslim must believe in the Injeels (original Bible) and the Torah. In Quran God(Allah) says even some Christianbs and Jews will enter paradise, those who do not associate partners with me.
Walaikum

Devam Et said...

A good article indeed, unfortunately mistaken from the very start.

When Quran says about judging Christians by their book, it is definitely about 'judging'. If you read a little bit more about Islam, you'd see that the Christian subjects of the Islamic empires (such as Ottomans) were being ruled by their own juricial systems, such as civil law, law of obligatories etc.

Thus, what that article missing is, neither Islam nor Quran says that the 'contemporary' Gospel is the fact. Not surprisingly, Quran mentions 'a lot' about the mistakes and corruptness of the current Gospel. And warn the humans to not fall into the same mistakes again (eg saying God has a son).

Thus, that article's main point is false and mistaken. That line from Quran is just and only about the interior law affairs of Christian societies. In Islam, civil law can be changed and varied to different societies and all religions have the freedom to enjoy their own systems of marriage, heritage etc at the same time in the same state.

Ty.

Thanseef Gafoor said...

if jesus(p.b.u.h) is god then what he said in
John 14:28 is wrong
John 10:29 is wrong
John 5:30 is wrong
Mathew 19:16-17 is wrong
Acts 2:22 is wrong
Mark 12:29
if trinity is good then..
matthew 15:9
there is no problem in worshipping looking at a graven image or photo imagining it or him to be god..then
Exodus 20:3-5 and Deuteronomy 5:7-9 is wrong

Thanseef Gafoor said...

i know u wont publish the comment...hiding the truths...cowards u r...

Jesus is our Beloved Prophet said...

I wonder

-Why Christianity does not have full Code of Life but Islam gives complete code of life i-e Quran as "Theory" and Life of Our Prophet as "Practical".

- If today's bible is original then Why are these versions ? John , Mathew, etc? unlike Quran

- Does Bible covers entire life of of our Prophet "Jesus"?

-If Quran is wrong then how about those verses that are proved by natural evidences i-e Two seas , Mummy of Faraon in Egypt, Birth process, Astrology, Honey Bee, Olive and many many more...

Dare to reply

Thanseef Gafoor said...

first question...is the bible fully correct?

Nidal Khalifeh said...

It is interesting how we are trying to read the books of God and claim who is wrong and who is right. I ask God "Allah according to my believe" to forgive us all. Last time I read the Quran it was clear his forgiveness cannot be measured and it can cover everything. Religion is one and each boo k is a message and those messages are part of this one religion aimed for human kind. we will not be judged by God equally yet fairly. each one of us got different chances to learn the religion and we should appreciate the fact that at the end its God judging us. May God lead us to the right path. Even us Muslims don't know if we will get God's mercy so we keep asking God for it :)

Abed Mousa said...

There is no god but Allah and mohammad is his final prophet to all creatins,god have no wife no kids and he needs nobody,Jesus the son of Mary was created by Allah like Adam was created he never claimed to be god or son of god but the first word he said when he was born was;I'm the servant of Allah go check and do not follow other people's teachings blindly thank you

TheArabianShield said...

@Abed Mousa

There is yes a god called al ilah 'the pagan moon god' (see crescent symbol in every mosque today) and mohamad is the false prophet. Allah had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. (an-Najm 53:19-22)Jesus the son of Mary was not created by the Father (Colossians 1:16 and John 1:14-18) was like Adam as man(1 Corinthians 15:45-47)but he claimed to be the 'Lord of Heaven' the Isa of quran baby reciting is not the real Jesus of the Bible in fact Muhamad speaks about the resuurection of Jesus (Qur'an, Surah 19:30-35) but the true Jesus is the one who died for our sins.

You can continue follow false prophet muhamad and his teachings blindly and met your allah in jannah or follow Jesus who claimed in John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me"

Is Islam is the way? NO
Does Muhamad tells the truth? No
Does Allah gives life? Oh NO

You have a good reason to believe in the true Jesus of the Bible than bowing 5 times a day to a pagan black box which is pre-arabian idolatry.

Jeff Wolfgang said...

Thank you so much. This is powerful. No one can read this and have any doubt that Jesus is God. I especially like the verse in Isaih where God doesn't share His glory. That is proof Jesus claimed to be a deity.

SubhanAllah5 said...

God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

Oops did I just claim that I AM Divine?OMG it is only Numbers 23:19:))

Thanseef Gafoor said...

When u make a tape recorder. and when u want to repair it..u do not have to turn urself into a tape recorder to find its problems.. u use tools to repair it.. since u have made it u can know what all problems it has.. similarly God does not have to incarnate himself into a man to solve problems on earth he sends prophets. By saying God incarnated into a man and came in human form is like insulting God..which is the biggest unforgivable sin...u will have to stay in hell forever even if u did a lot of good things in earth..all other sins there is a slight chance that god will forgive...God neither beggets..nor is he begotten..he is one and only...

Koala Bear said...

@Thaseef Gafoor - have you actually bothered to read this thread or are you jut posting the usual propaganda that is thrown about? There are now plenty of refutations to what Naik says and hopefully you will watch them. It never ceases to amaze me that muslims are always attracted to this question - that shows that you have deep doubts about islam. I suggest you explore your doubts once and for all.


One who claims to be a messenger of God is expected to live a saintly life. He must not be given to lust, he must not be a sexual pervert, and he must not be a rapist, a highway robber, a war criminal, a mass murderer or an assassin. One who claims to be a messenger of God must have a superior character. He must stand above the vices of the people of his time. Yet Muhammad’s life is that of a gangster godfather. He raided merchant caravans, looted innocent people, massacred entire male populations and enslaved the women and children. He raped the women captured in war after killing their husbands and told his followers that it is okay to have sex with their captives and their “right hand possessions” (Quran 33:50) He assassinated those who criticized him and executed them when he came to power and became de facto despot of Arabia. Muhammad was bereft of human compassion. He was an obsessed man with his dreams of grandiosity and could not forgive those who stood in his way. Muhammad was a narcissist like Hitler, Saddam or Stalin. He was astute and knew how to manipulate people, but his emotional intelligence was less evolved than that of a 6-year-old child. He simply could not feel the pain of others. He brutally massacred thousands of innocent people and pillaged their wealth. His ambitions were big and as a narcissist he honestly believed he is entitled to do as he pleased and commit all sorts of crimes and his evil deeds are justified.

SubhanAllah5 said...

Your ignorance is appalling. Where does it come from?

Wellohwell said...

Great post. Muslims do you agree that jesus committed no sin? Did muhammed commit sins? Who lead a purist lifestyle as opposed to the other? Would youre conscience permit you to marry a nine year old? Man is born to sin. God never sins. Jesus never sinned. Religion is simple as long as it makes sense. Stop being so narrow minded. Our goal is to work towards being in the likeness of jesus. Why dont you live in the total likeness of muhammed? Because its not acceptable. Any human with a conscience knows that. Right on point koala bear.

SubhanAllah5 said...

WOW and WOW again:(( Ecclesiastes 7:20 says, "There is no righteous man on earth who does good and sins not." Having a flaw is no disqualification for being a rabbi or prophet.
Genesis 17:1
When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty; walk before me and be blameless (tamiym).

SINCE ....Since Jesus was sinless why was it important for him to be baptized?

Yeah go ahead and tel me all sinless kids who die are GODS?
You are not sure WHEN Jesus was actually born. You do not have account of big part of his life, do not have his original words an u claim him to be God when he did not say so.

Radical Moderate said...

@SubhanAllah5

WOW and WOW is right.

You wrote...
"You are not sure WHEN Jesus was actually born. You do not have account of big part of his life, do not have his original words an u claim him to be God when he did not say so."

Sub
You don't have a clue when Jesus was born unless you borrow from the Christian world view. The only account you have of Jesus life is what your Quran says and that is borrowed from Gnostic sources Jesus speaking from the womb, Jesus making clay birds come to life etc.. and thats about it. And you don't have any words of Jesus since the Quran is only Allah speaking.

Thanseef Gafoor said...

subhaanallah..that was awesome subhaanallah!!! but brother, the main problem is these guys are quite ignorant..its less use in helping them...only what we can do is try...leave the rest to God,,its he who has to guide them..but to be guided they have to be true to themselves first. but they are not.they wont accept...even jesus(p.b.u.h)himself preached about the oneness of god in his time people did not accept him as a prophet...so u need not expect these guys to come to the truth. that is why they start insulting prophet muhammed(s.a.w) by making up thereown stories about him and spread it when they become speechless when we authentic quotes from the bible against the divinty of jesus(p.b.u.h) and proving him he is just a prophet of God. Its because these guys are cowards and afraid of truth, they are doing this...u need not worry brother..nothing can stop the rapid growth of Islam..God will himself take care of it in sha allah. whatever they are trying to do by insulting Muhammed(p.b.u.h) is turning out to be a boon for islam helping it grow much stronger because as a result of their insulting, people started to study about Prophet Muhammed(p.b.u.h) from authentic sources and go through the quran..leadng them easily to islam.. So whatever they do in short is a good sign..lets do our part well in sha allah

IDEPCO said...

Prophet Jesus (PBUH) was a messenger of God Almighty he never said " I am god or worship me", all that the Christians believe are the invented theories of non eyewitness saints.
The greatest commandment of the Bible according to prophet Jesus is that GOD IS ONE!
Mark 12
28: One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"
29: "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
30: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.
What Jesus was refering in John was that he is not God at all.
i) "My Father is greater than I."
[The Bible, John 14:28]
(ii) "My Father is greater than all."
[The Bible, John 10:29]
(iii) "…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."
[The Bible, Mathew 12:28]
(iv) "…I with the finger of God cast out devils…."
[The Bible, Luke 11:20]
(v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[The Bible, John 5:30]
"Most assuredly, I say to you, the son can do nothing of himself …" (John 5:19)
How can the Christians call Jesus a God when he is not greater and he can do nothing by himself?
Jesus refuted the remotes suggestion of Divinity.
Consider the following incident mentioned in the Bible:
"And behold, one came and said unto him, 'Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?'
And he said unto him, 'Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.' "

[The Bible, Mathew 19:16-17]
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

[The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]
There is not a single unequivocal statement in the complete Bible, where Jesus Christ peace be upon him says… 'I am God' - or where he says… 'Worship me'. ­­­­­­Infect if you read the Bible,
As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God (John 8: 40)
They do blaspheme who say: "God is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship God, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with God,- God will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. [005:072] Al-Quran.

Thanseef Gafoor said...

That was nice Idepco...Masha allah...
but these guys will ignore it...They will be blind to it...And they become dumb too in matter of truth.... Its really hard for them to accept truth even after showing proofs from scriptures ,its because of there self pride.. They worry about this world and end up loosing heaven...They surely will have no answer to what u quoted from the bible ..And when they get speechless they surely will begin Insulting Islam and Prophet Muhammed(p.b.u.h) because they have no other way..... U can wait and see there reply...All what we can do is pray for them so that they get guidance and to get there ignorance get removed from there hearts...In sha Allah

SubhanAllah5 said...

here some humor:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFGrQMD6Uqc

Unknown said...

The word of Allah in the Quraan does not include a single character in any language other than the Arabic language. Verse Q5:47 reveals the following meanings:

"وَلْيَحْكُمْ أَهْلُ الإِنْجِيلِ بِمَا أَنْـزَلَ اللَّهُ فِيهِ وَمَنْ لَمْ يَحْكُمْ بِمَا أَنْـزَلَ اللَّهُ فَأُولَئِكَ هُمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ".

Mohammad Doofesh
mdoofesh@gmail.com

IslamisMyreligion said...

Bismilahi rrahmani rrahim
O disbelievers in Allah, in his oneness, in his angels, in his books, in his messengers, in the day of resurrection and in al-kadr
I worship not that which you worship
Nor will you worship that which I worship, and I shall not worship that which u are worshiping
Nor will you worship that which I worship
To you be your religion, and to me my religion ISLAM

Yao said...

John 14:6—Jesus said to him, “I am
"the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”

Is John your prophet? According to what evidence you acknowledge him?

Check the book of revelation, there are so many who criticized him. We need an evidence from god or Jesus himself. By the way I ma just seeking the truth. I am not in either side.

ShirinAbid said...

One religion states that a minor sin by Adam and Eve could only be erased by sending an innocent man to his death, and thereafter absolving all future mankind of all sins, no matter how much bigger than Adams. That is justice of God. And note, there is only ONE God but also three Gods. You have to believe in all three to be accepted as a monotheist.

The other religion states to each his/her own. You do the crime, you do the time but not an iota more than the crime, You do a charitable act, you be rewarded many times more, be you Muslim, or non-Muslim. God forgives all your sins, IF you atone for your sins. That is justice of God. And remember, there is no God but God. He is unique, needless, and forever.

Tell me which one I should accept. I find that even the zionist jews prefer the latter.

David Wood said...

Shriben,

It doesn't seem that you've ever actually read what Islam teaches.

Read this and tell me which religion you would prefer:

http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2013/03/jesus-islam-and-atonement-for-sin.html

Radical Moderate said...

Shinnin Abad wrote...

"One religion states that a minor sin by Adam and Eve could only be erased by sending an innocent man to his death, and thereafter absolving all future mankind of all sins, no matter how much bigger than Adams. That is justice of God. And note, there is only ONE God but also three Gods. You have to believe in all three to be accepted as a monotheist. "

I'm curious which religion teaches this? I am un aware of this being taught in Christianity so I'm just wondering what religion it is you are attacking?

Rudolf Odame said...

This information comes as a result of what you believe you know and which you do not know , My prayer for you is that as you read this message Holy Spirit will reveal things to you , even in your sleep you will experience Christ Himself. 1. Do you know you are your father ?
2. Do you look like your biological father or your mother ?
3. Have you ask your self why. because you are caring his gene, if you have study about reproduction in your biology you will understand what i am taking about. The bible says when God created man He breath the breath in him ....that breath is the gene of God Psalm 82 verse 6 describe every human as gods John 10 verse 34 same and in John 10 verse 25-30 if Jesus Christ is describe as son of God is just the same way you can be describe as a Son of God, Exd 7:1 says God has made us like God to whatever challenges we might be facing , what He is saying is that the way God speaks to challenges and it vanishes because you were made by Him you equally have that same authority , that was all Jesus did walking in the authority of God and some of the prophets like Moses used the same charisma, You are alive today because God has chosen you so that your life will speak of His glory, rather than attacking the christian on religion grounds. let us reason together you can not fight for God, let us make this planet a happy place to live irrespective of your religion be you a Muslim or a Christian or Hindus we all believe there is one SUPREME PERSONALITY that no one has ever seen but accountable to him someday somehow. Peace of God must reign on this planet. God Bless your understanding as you read this message.
Rev. Emmanuel Hill, Accra Ghana.

real monotheist christian said...

Your tastes have become refined

It used to be
If someone stole all your coins

Or locked your sexual pleasures in a room
You could not reach

This world would have no meaning
And a thirst for a hemlock brew
Might arise

But that was many lives ago
Now look at yourself

You are often still a mess

Though these days
At times,

You weep because
You Miss
Him

Your tastes have become refined

It used to be
If someone stole all your coins

Or locked your sexual pleasures in a room
You could not reach

This world would have no meaning
And a thirst for a hemlock brew
Might arise

But that was many lives ago
Now look at yourself

You are often still a mess

Though these days
At times,

You weep because
You Miss
God

Hafez

gmm said...

This discussion is very interesting to me. In comparing religious text, especially between the Quran and the Bible, the similarities between the two is unmistakenable. I have managed to live harmoniously between religions and cultures my whole life noting that followers of both religions have similar values, practices and beliefs. It's the interpretation by the individual that bends what is said in either reference, hence the birth of extremists on both sides of the aisle. Christianity as a whole went through a time of punishing non-believers in the name of god, now Muslim extremism has heavily evolved in the same light in the last several decades for those who are punishing and opressing others in the name of Allah. The extremism between these two religions are no different, just different eras. The average christian and average muslim can and have easily coexisted with each other, complimenting each others values. With an open heart, open mind and knowledge of history, anyone can see this. One must always remember, the Quran and the Bible were written and published by man as an extension to spread the word of God and Allah. Only God or Allah can judge man as both scriptures explain, not man himself. Yet, every day man imposes the judgement of God or Allah on other men. In light of both scriptures, it's wrong for man to act as an extension of God and Allah and judge others, for man is flawed and their hearts ae in constant battle between right and wrong. This here is the main reason I don't follow one religion because no man has the right to judge me under the name of God or Allah. History proves that man has had a difficult time following any scripture since man is inherently flawed. Only a higher power can truly judge and once everyone grasps that, the world will be a better and safer place to live. Unfortunately, that will never happen because the most flawed of man will always twist any scripture and execute their interpretations as they see fit.

? said...

how could christains say god died? if you say he died and after three days he resurrected ....did the world progress without god for three days? the world without in the god control for three days?

? said...

i) "My Father is greater than I."
[The Bible, John 14:28]
(ii) "My Father is greater than all."
[The Bible, John 10:29]
here jesus denotes father.. if he is a god then why he used to say father ... god needs no father ...god wont born ..he wont die...MANY of great mans doesnt say NEITHER to pray them..nor not to pray them...but we should know only god is worthable to pray...but not the creators of him....(i.e..who born and die)..THE real god is needless ....want no mother no father...

David Wood said...

You act as if we haven't heard these same objections hundreds of times, and as if we haven't answered them hundreds of times. Here are a few quick samples of answers. Plenty more where that came from.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_jesus_praying.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzBesvLK5bE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM0Pjbkp3E4

Now how about you explain for us why Allah prays and worships:

http://answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/allah_worships.html

lina said...

It kills me how people are so blind away from the truth. What bothers me that people are attacking islam and they defend their own Ideas blindly. People defend their beliefs but they don't really search for the truth. people are being programmed and no one has the boldness to change his faith, Instead they stick their minds with something that will take them no where. Why & how people believes that Jesus is God, Son and father? How Jesus is god and he prayed to God many many times? Why God would need to pray to himself? What type of confusion this to me sounds? The verses you all sent looks very okay and fine to me . No single verse mentioned that Jesus is God , Or even God's son directly. The verse you mentioned just says this metaphorically that Jesus is God's son. He is God's son in term Of love and careness. people like to twist things the way they like. God send all his profits to spread One mission. The oneness of God. They all taught people that God is one and he is the greatest. Islam is not a tag or a name that describes certain people. Islam means God is one. Islam is the only religion of God. We believe in Jesus and all profits. Jesus was a muslim and he believed in one god. His mother was a muslim and she believed in One god. Jesus had a bear as all muslims you describe radicals , Also Marry was veiled. We believe In jesus and you don't believe in Muhammed what type of confusion & Prejudice is this ? God is different than Jesus. God doesn't pray to himself , God doesn't underestimate himself. God doesn't let people to kill him shamefully. Crucification is a shame for God and even profits. God saved Jesus and raised him before crucification because Jesus was loved by god. God is perfect , all his books are one ! All god books are muslims as well as his profits. If God allowed himself to contain Jesus he would have done the same to Mohamed because as i said God is perfect. God sent all profits with miracles , Each profit was sent with his own miracles but non of them was contained by God greatness. God is great , powerful and he is only One.!!!!! I saw lots of people who just reverted to their own initial state and they lost their families , husbands just to find Logic. If you want to consider faith in your life just follow God words. God says Im one !!!! God says you need to pray to me everyday. God says when women are on their period they shouldn't pray. God said remember me everyday and not only on sunday. God said don't follow your desires and follow me. I wish i was a christian and then i revert. People who reverts to Islam God forgives their sins no matter how great they are. They are like new-borns babies. People ,please God is different than Jesus . God genes are different than Jesus. Jesus is a profit. he is not god's son , neither Marry his mother is God's wife.Jesus and Marry had a life .

lina said...

hey ate and drank. I know my religion is right because God it is so logic.God also sends me miracles whenever i doubt anything. I had a friend she was asking me to show her the verses in quraan that say Jesus is not god or whatever you call. Even The quraan is almost 600 pages and Im not that awesome in knowing every single verse in Quraan ,Once i opened the quraan , the quraan opened himself on this page , The quraan opened himself on the chapter that is mainly talking about Jesus & Marry. Im not saying this to brag about my religion or to force people about my ideas. Im saying this because it happened to me. I Woke up one day on prayers azan , Even i live in a city that don't allow the calling for prayers but it happened. Angels always wake me up to pray specially fajir when i have to wake up 6:am everyday. Im not saying to talk lies but this happened to me. I saw Allah name in the sky before , Im so blessed and i love God. Let's get into our point again now. I know too many people as well hate islam because they think it is hard. Others hate it because they have wrong concepts about it. While others tend to relate Islam to terrorism. Islam is not something scary or something different. We all been born muslims but our ancestors programmed us the way they wanted. Some people are thankful they are muslims because they think christians will never get convinced about Islam. I believe smart christians are more blessed when they seek the truth. I wish i had a chance when god can forgive all my sins. I know a friend that has lost her husband and family just for god's sake. She was smart to seek things that are logic. if God is jesus , the son and father then why God is not the brother ? why Marry is not the wife ? how Jesus is god and he prayed to himself ? How jesus is the son and he prayed to his dad? i feel just confused. Endless confusion. God sent all profits with miracles but god never contained any of them. Why you guys don't believe in my profit as i do ? Why christianity sounds kind of prejudiced to me now? How a person can bare all your sins? Why do i have to drink, gamble & have fun and then i say GOd WILL Forive all this? What type of logic is this? Why People are worshiping the cross? If Jesus was crucified in the cross then it simply means he is not god . God will not allow underestimation to himself. Why god would let bunches of people do this to him? God is one God is great . Muhamed, jEUS AND musa are all profits. Im not here to brag but i like to follow logic.

Sumy Cillomu said...

I guess Muslims should consider reading this verses again. John 4:16 Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.(Jesus. Good luck to your jugdment day!!!!

Sumy Cillomu said...

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.John1:1 lots of people have been to Heaven and they witness Jesus is God.

SubhanAllah5 said...

did you ever read what the question was?

Sumy Cillomu said...

Did you ever read about the Boston Bomb? Yeah I did! Christians don't kill but Muslims do cuz satan take over them. I will pray for you and ask Jesus to lead you through him.

Sumy Cillomu said...

http://gnli.christianpost.com/video/touching-testimony-of-how-a-muslim-man-met-christ-9863

Joel Giedt said...

lina said: "If Jesus was crucified in the cross then it simply means he is not god . God will not allow underestimation to himself. Why god would let bunches of people do this to him?"

Paul answers this question: "For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." (1 Cor. 1:18)

And further on in the same letter: "Those who are unspiritual do not receive the gifts of God's Spirit, for they are foolishness to them, and they are unable to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Cor. 2:14)

Really, Christians should not expect you to understand the cross. Understanding it only comes to those who have been born again. It requires the annointing of the Holy Spirit to open the "eyes of your heart." Period. That is the orthodox position. Go read St. Augustine.

Mary said...

When Jesus was brought before the Sanedrin and asked by the High Priest if Jesus was the Messiah, Jesus said, "I am," which is what God said to Moses ("I am who I am") and that Jesus would be God's right hand (i.e., God's power). That is the "legal" reason they condemned Jesus for blasphemy and crucified Him, for claiming to be God and the son of God.

Allah Is One said...

Why dont we have Dr. Zakir Naik and David Wood have a public debate so that every one can benefit. However, Is there any single Christian who has memorize the Bible? and if not y? because when truth is held against falsehood, it perishes because falsehood by its nature is bound to perish. prove the Holy Quran wrong by pointing out contradictions in it if u can. Dont hate Islam rather try and read the Holy Quran as we are also reading the Bible and u will soon know the TRUTH.

David Wood said...

It always amazes me when Muslims think that Zakir Naik is willing to debate. We've been challenging him for years, and he refuses. I've challenged him to debate. So have Sam Shamoun, James White, Nabeel Qureshi, Jay Smith, and others. But he just makes excuses. Zakir Naik has never faced an experienced Christian debater in his entire career. But if a local Christian pastor with no debate experience challenges him, suddenly he's ready to debate! Debating the weakest opponents he can find is a deceptive strategy. But somehow Muslims fall for it and are convinced that Zakir is a champion debater!

Don't believe me? Ask him to debate me and watch him make excuses.

Allah Is One said...

@ David Wood, can u show as a scanned copy of the invite to debate you and the reply note/letter. Common lets tell the readers the truth. Please lets tell the truth to the whole world. Better still u can contact them on Peacetv.org.

David Wood said...

The challenge was posted on several sites (and sent to Badawi, Ally, and Naik) nearly five years ago. Here's a link:

http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2008/10/open-debate-challenge-to-shabir-ally.html

Radical Moderate said...

Also the challange was sent by Dr White and he got a reply saying he needed to get a venue and pre sell tickets for 10,000 people

Sumy Cillomu said...

Allah is just a demon that teaches people to kill. Our God will destroy him someday and his followers in the name of Jesus Christ!

Radical Moderate said...

IDEPCO wrote...

..." all that the Christians believe are the invented theories of non eyewitness saints."

My Response:

After saying this you then go on to quote these non eyewitness saints.

you wrote...

"The greatest commandment of the Bible according to prophet Jesus is that GOD IS ONE!
Mark 12
28: One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"
29: "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
30: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.
What Jesus was refering in John was that he is not God at all.
i) "My Father is greater than I."
[The Bible, John 14:28]
(ii) "My Father is greater than all."
[The Bible, John 10:29]
(iii) "…I cast out devils by the Spirit of God…."
[The Bible, Mathew 12:28]
(iv) "…I with the finger of God cast out devils…."
[The Bible, Luke 11:20]
(v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[The Bible, John 5:30]
"Most assuredly, I say to you, the son can do nothing of himself …" (John 5:19)"

My Response:

Since you believe these are "non eyewitness saints" then how do you know Jesus said these things?

Sumy Cillomu said...

John 10:30 Jesus said: I and my Father are one.

Kathy Bramley said...

The perfect word of God is Jesus; it says it in the first chapter of John's gospel. This a reworking of the creation story which takes into account what he knows (or thinks he knows) after knowing Jesus.

St Paul wrote "there is neither male nor female, jew nor gentilem, slave or free in Christ Jesus." We wrapped up with jesus in our spiritual beings to a spiritual place where our earthly matters-of-fact don't actually matter; the words St paul repeats are 'in Jesus'. We follow human beings; we are wrapped uop in lovers and relatives; we are simply 'in' the universe and the god who made it, and is the tissue of the universe himself; in whom we live and have our being (st paul, at Athens). The man that stood before them was not the universe as they could see just by looking, but symbolically and indeed everything that god stood for and was, Jesus was. He was the unity, in himself the agape of god. How can god be self-giving without giving himself in the ultimate act of sacrifice? jesus was God himself given for us. The trinity is a difficult world to acquire, and a theological conceptual world if at all reasl; but it was a documenting of the way in which God worked and mentioned three seperate entities or formulations of God; the big universal father who Jesus was the emissary of. The holy spirit, the activity of god, some sects see this entity or phrasing even very differently from each other and to the mainstream interpretation. is is a he? And enitiy? The exectuive arm? Or just conscience? And what's with the use of the word elohim; the activity of which is often recorded in the OT. Angels sometimes blend into this, or are translated in context from that word, i was aware, I think. And is this the activity of the holy spirit, or seperate entities? Then, the third commonly mentioned aspect; Jesus. The, emissary; the word. The messiah.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+9%3A6&version=NIV
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+53&version=NIV
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+9%3A6&version=NIV

SubhanAllah5 said...

Once again people read the the question.... It is NOT what some people with no last nane like John, Mathew, Paul and Luke said.... It is WHAT Jesus (pbuh)himself SAID.... He Said NO word or NO hint of him or his mother being divine, NO trinity, NO holly cross or other fiction those people without last name invented/improvised/imagined/fantasized about HIM!

David Wood said...

SubhanAllah 5,

Did you even read the post you're commenting on? Jesus makes claims that only God can make (even according to the Qur'an). Are you so brainwashed that you can't even recognize what someone is saying?

SubhanAllah5 said...

Yes I do all the time, all I see is Bla bla bla.... Me and father ae one, I am, and whatever BUT nothing about Jesus being GOD...
Why would he pray and teach to pray Our Father, beg his Father..., Weaker than the Father.... Jesus is not Transformer....

David Wood said...

Wow! I asked if you had read the post, but the examples you gave didn't even come from my post. It seems that you want to raise objections while ignoring the evidence. How original!

IDEPCO said...

TO DK
Your questions;
................................
Where in the Quran or Bible did Jesus say "I was born of a virgin, my mother was a virgin"?

Where in the Quran or Bible did Jesus say "I am the Messiah and Muslim Prophet"?

Where in the Quran or Bible did Jesus say: "Allah is going to save me from death, and i'm going to return"?
--------------------------------
WEll iy is clear to every one who read the Koran, (Muslims or not) that you have never read the Holy Book... Your Questions are responded in "ALI IMRAN" or IMRAN Family... go ahead don't convince yourself that you know what you don't or... have you eyes but not see, have you ears but not listen, have you heart but not feel? take from the Koran what ever you want for what ever you want... many Scientists and schoalrs have converted into Islam after readind and studying the Koran do you consider yourself (or others) wiser than them...
Jesus says, I do nothing by myself but with the finger of my Lord... don't change his words (not His words) and just pray God as he tought the people of Israel to whom he was sent by God (Allah -Elohim=)

David Wood said...

IDEPCO,

I think you missed the point. Muslims demand EXACT WORDS from Christians. So DK is demanding EXACT WORDS from you. Where did Jesus say the exact words DK requested?

All you've done is say that the Qur'an teaches these things. Well the Bible teaches that Jesus is God. Thanks!

Sumy Cillomu said...

Don't forget that Jesus died for us to save us . He didn't just died and brag about his power or being conceited! He made himself as a servant to become human but isn't he sitting at the right throne in heaven right now?

SportyTurks said...

Good Day Brothers and Sisters, Muslims, Jews and Christians.

I have read both the Quran and the Bible briefly as it may be, but it’s enough to give me the answers to what I believe in.

We all come from the same base faith of Ibrahim/Abraham (p.b.u.h) the one who passed God’s ultimate test of sacrificing his son. In Islam the son is interpreted by Muhammad (700 years after Isa/Jesus’ death) as Ishmael who was born of Hagar, whereas Christians and Jews on the other hand believe it to be Abraham’s ONLY Son Isaac. Only son because Ibrahim/Abraham had only one Son from his first and non- slave wife Sarah. In the Christian and Jewish world the story is the same in regards to Ibrahim’s Slave girl Hagar who gave birth to Ishmael. It’s important to note that the Christian and Jewish side of the story comes thousands of years earlier.

To me all three religions divert into different directions but this is the focal point. One can’t help but ask themselves what does Ibrahim/Abraham sacrifice really mean?

Did God test Ibrahim/Abraham to prepare the coming of Isa/Jesus (p.b.u.h)?

Was this Ibrahim/Abraham’s true reward for his faith along with the descendants as numerous as the stars?

This was written in the 1st century, over 500 years before Islam:

“Now this is an allegory: these women are two covenants. One woman, in fact, is Hagar, from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery”. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free and she is our mother.”

To me the nail on the target is the nail of the cross, God’s ultimate sacrifice for us all.

May God Bless you all

Knecmedin said...

Good day Every1. The main diffrence between Christianty & Islam lies on each point of view ab Jesus (Isa). Other than that both religions are almost identical. Christians believe that Jesus is the son of God and/or part of trinity, and/or divine, part of God. Muslims believe that his only a messenger of God. Now if I ask my Christians brothers and sisters that I can quote "One" verse for their own bible (IN RED LETTERS) where Jesus implies that he is not God and not son of God and not Part of Trinity would you believe me or not?

Climate of Progress said...

Seek the truth and the truth will set you free. Jesus is Lord.

PinoysaKuwait said...

Dear Knecmedin, Could you please tell me what is that verse?

Sheri Southern said...

In Revelation, the Angel, whom many have said is Christ, said don't worship me. And Christ said God gave him authority, so doesn't that mean God can take it away? Whenever wisdom is sent by God by an angel, a good percentage bow to the angel instead of God and this we call religion. And we congratulate our "self" for it, instead of following the Soul of Jesus who came straight from Heaven to show us that we must sacrifice our "opinions" (will and preconceived ideas) and our flesh in order to be doubly-apportioned with our Soul and a resurrected body. We ARE to follow Jesus! His example, his Sonship, because he is and was a loyal son, like the Prodigal Son who realized life is not good without God (btw, why then did Jesus state that "only God is good" when someone addressed him as good?) and we have not been good. By laying down our "life" we get our true life back: our soul and being residents of Heaven as angels restored and now, trusted and tested, because like Jesus, our brother, we rely on God's grace and the Holy Spirit's guidance (back Home) while here on earth.

David Wood said...

Sheri,

You claim that "many" people say that the angel in Revelation is Jesus. The only people who could ever say this are people who didn't finish reading the book. Try reading Revelation 22:16: “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

So Jesus is the one who SENT the angel. And you're saying that Jesus is the angel?

Abdul Rahim said...

13 People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." 16 And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them. 17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
18 "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered.
"No one is good -- except God alone. Acts 2:22 "Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.Matt &:21- 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ the verses go on and on . The main issue is many verses that you quote are not even in the Koiné Greek they where adapted to the 1600 King James version and even so much that if you have study scriptures and learn the greek and latin text you would have a clarification in your heart who Jesus(PBUH) is to all and you would praise the all mighty Creator. I implore you and those which read my comment to seek the guidance , knowledge and understanding of scriptures before making a comment. Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

Betron said...

The Quraan say (GOSPEL) singular ,not GOSPELS (Plural) ,current bible (4 GOSPELS)Plural,,and Quraan say GOSPEL given to JESUS ,,the Quraan didn't say that GOD gave the GOSPEL to Matthew ,Mark Luke and John ,,the GOSPEL was given to JESUS ,,so please provide verses from the GOSPEL of Jesus

Dawood Yusuf Omane said...

0 People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Commit no excesses in your religion; nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, and His Word, and a Spirit proceeding from Him.
Surat-un Nisaa (4):171

franco14344 said...

Being a muslim is a call,
No matter how hard you explane everything to someone that is not ready/or not been called to see and to know the truth, he/she will never understand it.

Just like christian if u are been called as a christian you will see all the good things in the bibble, you will fight for it, and defend it.

Just like muslims do,

IF you think your religion will save you from
Yomalqiyama judgement day,
Think twice,

If you think that your on the right path and you are just defending everythning, and doing nothing to please god, i dont think your religion will saves you,

11+ years converted as a muslim, lailahailaallah there is no god except for allah,

Proud to be a muslim,

Unknown said...

“Where did Jesus say, ‘I am only a prophet, don’t worship me,’ in those exact words?”

Why would Jesus (Peace Be Upon Him) would say that when no one worshipped him when he was alive? If someone starts worshipping Steve Jobs saying he was a god and his only proof that Steve Jobs was a god because he never said 'I am just a man, don't worship me' then you know the state of mind of that person.

May God give us guidance!

The key to getting guidance is to love God, pray to Him, seek guidance from Him, study religions, use your intellect, and work hard to seek that guidance. If you have not studied various religions then clearly you are a blind follower and you don't know the truth. I encourage everyone to study Quran and all other religions and if you truly seek God (and not trying to defend the religion of your forefathers), you will find Him, right in front of you.

Pillar of Islam - "There is no one worthy of worship except God and Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) is a servant and messenger of God."

David Wood said...

Jesus was never worshiped???

"And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, 'You are God's Son!'" (Matthew 14:33)

"Jesus said to him, 'You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.' And he [the man Jesus had just healed] said, 'Lord, I believe.' And he worshiped Him." (John 9:37-38)

Jesus was worshiped repeatedly during his lifetime, and yet he never told people to stop worshiping Him. Is that what a prophet would do?

Before you tell people about the life of Jesus, you might want to actually study it. Otherwise, you'll make the same blunders your prophet made.

dham vanalyn said...

John 4:16 Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me."

This verse is true, the true way is on Jesus(p.b.u.h), Jesus(p.b.u.h) is the truth. No one can come to the Father except through me. Believe in Jesus and you shall walk into the garden; disbelievers may rot in fire. The verse actually says to follow Jesus(p.b.u.h) and not to worship him. Worship him and you have made a huge mistake.

Koala Bear said...

dham vanalyn said...
John 4:16 Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me."

This verse is true, the true way is on Jesus(p.b.u.h), Jesus(p.b.u.h) is the truth. No one can come to the Father except through me. Believe in Jesus and you shall walk into the garden; disbelievers may rot in fire. The verse actually says to follow Jesus(p.b.u.h) and not to worship him. Worship him and you have made a huge mistake.
December 29, 2013 at 8:33 PM

Considering islam DENIES the father I suggest you read a Bible for yourself instead of islamic propaganda of verses taken out of context. Considering you clearly believe that Jesus is the Son of God you are Christian not muslim.

Koala Bear said...

@Dawood Yusuf Omane - you seem awfully desperate to convince yourself that islam is even of God (it is not). Read a Bible for yourself and stop being afraid.

dham vanalyn said...

@Koala Bear - John 17:3
- John 5:30

These verses states that Jesus(p.b.u.h) was sent by Father.
----------------------------------------
- Matthew 3:17
- Matthew 1:18

These verses states that Jesus(p.b.u.h) was the son of God.
----------------------------------------

The question is; What's up with the contradiction of verses in the Bible? Surely as I know some of the verses in the Bible states that Jesus(p.b.u.h) was only a messenger(prophet) by God Himself to save his people. While other verses states that Jesus(p.b.u.h) is really the Son of God? Clearly a Holy Book will not be that sacred if there are mistakes between the verses, right?
----------------------------------------
Now check this out. Matthew 5:9 - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Clearly in this verses states that whoever make peace between souls may be called son of God. Note that the verse is in plural form which mean that not only Jesus(p.b.u.h) is the son of God. Everyone can be the son of God. Even I can be the son of God, the judge, policemen, even a referee can be the son of God.
----------------------------------------

John 17:23 - "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one...

In this verse (them) are the friends of Jesus(p.b.u.h). "I in them" means that Jesus(p.b.u.h) is one with His friends the 12. "You in Me" means Jesus(p.b.u.h) is one with God.

Are you a believer of the Trinity? If yes is your answer, then how can you explain the union between the 12 friends of Jesus(p.b.u.h) and Jesus(p.b.u.h) AND God Himself?

If you believe every word from the Bible, then you should believe that not only Jesus(p.b.u.h) and Holy Spirit is one with God, you should add 12 more of them..12+3= 15 of them !


David Wood said...

Dham,

You're seeing contradictions because you don't bother to read entire passages. Instead, you copy references from websites, insert an Islamic meaning into the verses, and ignore what Jesus actually said.

As examples, let's take your first two references. According to you, John 17:3 refutes the Deity of Christ. But keep reading until 17:5, where Jesus says that he had glory with the Father before the world was created. What kind of prophet could say that?

Next, you say that John 5:30 refutes the Deity of Christ. But read the entire passage (verses 16-30), where Jesus claims that he will raise the dead on the last day, that he is the final judge of all men, and that everyone must honor him in the same ways that we honor the Father.

Your approach is so incredibly sad, because it's the same approach of the last 200 Muslims who visited this site (i.e., mindlessly cite references that you've never bothered reading). Why is there so little critical thinking in Islam?

Piece of Mind said...

O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God. Bear witness that we at least are bowing to God's Will.

[3:64]

lgray said...

I always find it interesting when people try to analyze something they don't understand and pass it off as truth.
Muslims, Jews, and Christians (all of which are founded in the same religious base) who are 3 parts of the same tree - but each have very few that truly understand. Each "religion" has "believers" that are still STUCK and imprisoned by the Egyptian Slave mentality. They all are so comfortable being SLAVES that they put themselves in great peril of God saying to them "I never knew you" It breaks my heart to hear and see so many spending more time trying to prove that their form of religion is superior to another, instead of respecting their root (which is God, Yahweh, Allah, etc.) He has many names. And he hates religion with all it's rules - all he wants from you is a relationship. One where he can talk to you and you will listen to him - not some book The greatest commandment that he has given us all is to love him and his creation (which is us). The more we seek a true relationship with him the more we will understand the truth! Which is not completely spelled out in any book with words "inspired by him" or not. He wants us to believe him, HIM the texts for our respective religions are simply a way for me, you, and him to start the conversation. Muslim, Christian, Jew - we are all branches of the same tree - I BEG YOU to please stop fighting like spoiled siblings.

David Wood said...

Igray,

You know what's even more interesting? When someone comes on this blog condemning people for "trying to prove that their form of religion is superior to another," and then immediately proceeds to correct everyone, thus claiming that his own form of religion is superior to theirs!

That people can be so inconsistent and hypocritical boggles the mind, doesn't it?

henry Jackson said...

WONDERFUL ARTICLE !!!

Val Todd said...

Igray is right. When will you all begin to see the futility of trying to prove that your form of religion is superior to another?!

vepopyeyee said...

What happened at the Garden of Gethsemane? Read Matt 26:38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.” Did the MEN OF LITTLE FAITH heed his words? Will you do the same if you have known that GOD is giving you the order? It shows that Jesus’ disciples have weak faith. Every time the so-called God returned after his prayer to God, he found them sleeping. It was the last moment of 'God' and his disciples had no concern at all. This make one wonders whether did Jesus really make known to them he is God.

shydreamer8 said...

What I can conclude from these comments are muslims are so dumb. They just ignore things which they don't like and keep repeating their stupid claims. Now its so funny to read their comments. Even though all of their questions are answered, they don't see it and keep posting like ignorant fools.

Pray for the Holy Spirit to guide you. I will Pray for you too.




shydreamer8 said...

I pray for all these Muslims to be guided by the Holy Spirit to the truth and to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour so that they may be saved.
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”- John 8.32

vepopyeyee said...

shydreamer8 Christian delusions are amusing. The claim that Jesus is God is their crackpot notion. When Moses can part the ocean, does that make Moses God for having such power? He did great miracles only to make it clear that men should know that his sufficiency for these things was of God. He says "I can do nothing of myself.." Surely, this is not the Voice of God, but of man!

David Wood said...

Wow. Did you even bother reading the post before you made this silly comment? Where did I argue that Jesus is God because he performed miracles? Why do Muslims always attack arguments no one ever made in the first place?

You only offered one piece of evidence that Jesus didn't claim to be God, but even here you displayed your complete ignorance of the topic. You pointed out that Jesus said, "I can do nothing of myself . . ."

LOL! Why don't you try reading the entire chapter, instead of cutting and pasting only part of one verse and reading it without the context? If you read the rest of the chapter (John 5), you'll see that in v. 17, Jesus claims to be equal to the Father. So he is accused, in the next verse, of claiming to be ANOTHER GOD. Jesus spends the rest of the chapter correcting the claim that he is ANOTHER GOD. He says that he is the final judge of all men (5:22-23) and the one who raises the dead (5:25-29). The statement about not being able to do anything on his own is meant to show THAT HE IS NOT CLAIMING TO BE A DIFFERENT GOD. INSTEAD, HE IS CLAIMING TO BE ONE WITH THE FATHER. He can't do anything on his own because he is one in essence with the Father. Of course, if you'd bothered to read the chapter, instead of mindlessly cutting and pasting the same silly arguments, you'd know all of this by now.

SubhanAllah5 said...

DAVID WOOD
How long will it be till Christians stop ASSUMING...... What prophet Jesus (Pbuh) MEANT?
You guys do not have originals of your Bibles.. which on top , according to youtube "misquoting Jesus" has as many MISTAKES as WORDS in it.....how dare you still ASSUME what Jesus MEANT!!!'

shydreamer8 said...

@vepopyeyee

Okay first of all did you even read the article 'cause if you did you'll know that even your quran proves that Jesus is Lord. Secondly its not the Christians but the muslims who are under the dumb delusion Jesus Christ is not God. Great work by your prophet, whowa born 600 years after Jesus came, in brainwashing you all so well so that the truth never goes into your head.
All brainwashed like robots to say where did Jesus say I am God worsip me. So lame!!

shydreamer8 said...

Can you do us a favour then? Can you show us your so called original bible. Because I don't think anyone has seen it. Do you have a copy? Where did you get it from? your Muhammad gave it to you?
So instead of you assuming things you show us your 'orignal'bible.

shydreamer8 said...


Acts 2:38

And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Can any prophet ever forgive ones sins? Only God has the power to do that.

Muslims can keep ignoring the fact that Jesus is Lord because that's how its being programmed in their brains, unless the Father wants them to know the truth.
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day"- John 6.44

vepopyeyee said...

shydreamer8

If you had asked and learned something from a Muslim, you would have known that you statement "even your quran proves Jesus is Lord' is silly.

Quran teaches is that Jesus whom we addressed as Prophet Isa is a mere prophet. This verse explicitly states that. "O people of the Book! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter anything concerning Allah except the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was ONLY A MESSENGER of Allah .." - QS 4-171
See, when somebody is NOT God, Quran states so explicitly. There is no room for twist and turn.

Jesus is only a messenger of Allah; just like all other prophets. Who is God then?
"And they say: Allah has taken to Himself a son. Be He glorified! NO! But whatever is in the heavens and the earth is His. All are subservient to Him. The Originator of the heavens and the earth! When He decrees a thing, He says to it only: Be! and it is - QS 2-116-117

There were many prophets before who were appointed by God to guide their own people. Revelations were sent to these prophets. Likewise, Jesus as a prophet, too received the divine message to be conveyed to his own people, the Children of Israel. His duty was to guide them to the right path. He was given the Injeel. The Injeel was NOT in the book form which was sent to Jesus. They were revelations valid for his own people for that specific time. Obviously, Jesus did not carry the gospels according to Mark, Luke, Matthew or John. Where was this original Injeel? You should have asked the Children of Israel the question. Did they put them on papers and guard them well? Did they have the materials to record own all that had been preached to them by Jesus? Your own Bible states that prophet Jeremiah accussed them of corrupting the message of God. So why asked a Muslim to show the original 'Bible'?

For a Muslim, we doubt that you belong to the group of people called Children of Israel. No you are not and your own Bible refers you as the Gentiles. Would Jesus lie when he told you "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel."? See, the word 'ONLY' is used here.

What is my comment with regards to the article here?
First of all, the Gospel sent to Jesus was meant for the Children of Israel. It was the revelations from God; not a book written ABOUT JESUS by unknown writers. When this has been fully understood, the claim that Quran affirms Bible according to Mark, Matthew, Luke and John is a desperate attempt made by Christians.

When it is written in the Bible that Jesus made a claim to forgive sins, does it mean the sins are really forgiven? When a priest claims that the sins of those who make confessions are forgiven, does it really mean to be? Where is the proof? Any idiot can make such claim but we can never see the proof!

What is true that we can get from the Bible today?
Jesus said " Hear O Israel the Lord OUR God is ONE Lord' - this is true.
Jesus said "Verily, verily, I say unto you, the son can do nothing of himself." - this is true.
Jesus said "My Father is greater than I." - this is true.
Jesus did not ever propose himself as an object of religious worship.
Jesus uniformly and to the last set an example of praying to the Father, 'to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God'.
When the disciples requested him to teach them to pray, Jesus did not teach them to pray to him or to any other person but the Father.
Jesus did not ever call himself God or tell you that he was the maker of the world and to be worshipped.

Lalitha Jose said...

VERSES IN THE BIBLE WHERE JESUS CHRIST REVEALS HE IS ONE IN THE TRINITY OF GOD
“I and the Father are one” (John 10:30).John 8:58 "I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. " When many were about to stone Jesus for blasphemy (John 10:30-39), He said to them that said he blasphemed "because I said, I am the Son of God?" (John 10:36).You call Me Teacher and Lord; and ye say well; for so I Am. John 13:13And Jesus said, I Am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mark 14:61-62"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works." ( John 14:10And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24 John 17:5 tells us Jesus said; "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."(Luke 22:66-71), He made the statement that “...Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.,” ."The Father judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." ( John 5:22-23)

"If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father." ( John 10:37-38)

GOD SAYS BEFORE CREATION OF MAN "*Let us*make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." ( GENESIS 1:26)

Jhughes said...

The temple Jesus spoke of was his body. Jesus was God with blood in him for a short time.

Bhagath Abhay said...

Dear Brothers & Sisters,

May God guide you. May the God of All Humans guide you, May the God of Adam guide you.
But Remember one thing. Just one thing. Jesus(PBUH) is our Beloved Prophet, No one is a Muslim if he dont accept jesus(PBUH)
One of the Five foundations of Islam is Believe in Prophets, Believe in their Scriptures (Saboor, Torah, Bible & Quran)
All have or had the same Concept. Ilohim, Ilah , Allah. The God of Universe.
Please read Surah Hashr (chapter 50 , verses 18 -24) Thats all.
Just to minutes

Jhughes said...

The reason Jesus did not say I am God worship me is this:that is what the devil would say. Jesus had others say who he was. That is why what Thomas said is so important, significant when he said my Lord and my God. Satan wants to take God's place. He will call fire down from the sky trying to prove it. Satan looks like this: Ezekiel 28:13:Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
2 Corinthians 11:14:And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.Muslims are hurting themselves killing people.

Jhughes said...

When Muslims forgive not killing like Muslims kill they will be forgiven. Don't do that putting up a barrier to keep that forgiving spirit out of you do evil to people calling it good.That does not get a good reward.

SubhanAllah5 said...

Really? Bill Gates does not say he is Saint, however I believe his foundation is doing lots of Godly things around the world.
Why do you judge Muslims just because some bastards who call themselves and or labelled Muslims by mass media act like animals? Why would you label them Jihadis when your own history is full of genocides and crusades in the name of your self assumed GOD? Keep assuming GOD and proclaiming Saints against the common sense that something CREATED can not be the CREATOR of All.

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