Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Ten schoolchildren and two soldiers with NATO's International Security Assistance Force were killed Monday in a bombing in Afghanistan, officials said.
A police officer was also killed when a suicide bomber attacked a bazaar in Afghanistan's eastern Paktia province, the Afghan Interior Ministry said.
The assailant, who was on a motorbike, detonated a device in the main bazaar of the Samkanai district, Interior Ministry spokesman Sediq Sediqqi said.
At least 16 others were wounded, Sediqqi said. (Continue Reading.)
Monday, June 3, 2013
Ten Children Among Dead in Afghanistan Suicide Bombing
Here's a question for our Muslim friends. Why is it that if these ten children had been killed by an Israeli bomb, or by a U.S. bomb, we would see Muslims rioting in the streets and demanding justice, but when Muslims kill Muslims, we don't hear a peep about it? It's as if you're telling us that it's perfectly acceptable for Muslims to kill Muslims.
Sickening, but I'm sure this had nothing to do with Islam. (I'm being sarcastiv)
On another note it looks like Saudi Arabia has given the world someting other then Islamic terrorism.
Deadly new virus comes from Saudi Arabia
Your observation is so wrong. Afghani Muslims all over the world condemn the killings of other Afghan Muslims all the time. All the Afghans I've known have always condemned the taliban and their terror strikes. To assume that they somehow condone killings because they're not out rioting in the streets is outrageous and unfair. The taliban still holds a major grip and control in Afghanistan it's not that easy to go out and riot against them, you have to be conscious of the political situation in the land and the hearts and minds of the civilians.
Who said anything about Afghani Muslims? I wouldn't protest if I were a Muslim in Afghanistan either. I'm talking about the Muslims who turn out to protest outside embassies in London and other European countries.
When Muslims show up by the thousands after an Israeli bomb kills some Muslims, the message seems to be: "Killing Muslims is unacceptable, and we won't allow it."
But where's the same outrage when the Taliban poisons little girls, or blows them up, or throws acid in women's faces? When the Taliban attacks, there's more outrage from non-Muslims than from Muslims.
I see almost no reaction from groups like CAIR or ISNA to these atrocities.
So the message seems to be: "It's wrong to kill a Muslim, unless you're a Muslim."
Your article is on Afghanistan that's why I brought up Afghans. My point was that muslims condemn terror done by muslims all the time. It may not always be in the form of riots, but there are many other far more productive ways of speaking out against terror. Malalai Yousafzadi's testimony against the taliban is 1000 times stronger than any form of riot on the street. Why? Because she was a devout muslim, and is still a devout muslim today even after being mutilated and scarred by an acid attack by the taliban. What is she doing now? She continues to speak out against the violence she endured and has inspired thousands across the globe to do so as well. Whether you think certain organizations should be speaking out more, than take it up with them. My intention is not to personally attack you, but you so often make blanket generalizations and statements about Muslims as a whole that are frequently misleading, unfair, and wrong. I think that it keeps Muslims from really hearing out what you have to say and it displays a very real level of ignorance. It frustrates me to read a lot of the stuff that you post because I know you personally and know that you are brilliant in many ways, but because of the blanket statements you often make it can become difficult to take you seriously.
Nonsense. This isn't generalizing. It's making an observation.
True or False: Muslims get way, way more upset over an Israeli attack against Muslims than they do over an even more deadly attack against Muslims by the Taliban?
You can always say, "Oh, but this Muslim over here got upset about the attack." Of course Muslims get upset about these attacks. The point is that the level of outrage isn't anywhere near what I would expect given their outrage over cartoons, American involvement in Afghanistan, etc.
And that raises a question: Why is there comparably little concern over Muslim attacks against Muslims than over non-Muslim attacks against Muslims?
Let me put the matter differently. I would be much, much more outraged if a Christian were to kill in the name of Jesus than if a Muslim were to kill in the name of Allah. Why? Because the Christian claims to be representing my Lord, and he's doing the opposite of what Jesus commands. Yet in Islam, the reverse is true. Muslims get supremely outraged when the unbelievers do something, but hardly upset at all when Muslims kill, throw acid in women's faces, blow up mosques, etc.
Yet somehow, it's wrong of me to notice such things, to comment on them, or to examine the underlying reasons.
I guess if all of us simply pretend that all is right in the Muslim world, things will magically get better.
It’s very difficult to fill American streets and protest against the Taliban and other terrorist organizations, you can’t bring political awareness and justice through peaceful means when it comes to organizations that are devoted to inflicting endless terror, you have to work to stop the advancement of terrorism in other ways. There are people in the world who will find reasons to be angry. Yes there are muslims who have gotten angry over cartoons, but I know a ton of muslims who don’t care about the cartoons. Yes there are muslims who are outraged over the war in Afghanistan, but all the Afghani Muslims I know love the fact that the American troops are there. As far as the muslims that I know, the level of outrage over death and terror is the same always, but it is not always showed in the same manner in every situation, (a lot of times this is simply because people do not know what they can do to help the situation). People hold public protests to influence legislators and politicians to make changes, well American legislators and politicians have already been fighting a lot of these huge terror camps for years. Muslims are NOT okay with killings in the name of their religion, my parents certainly are not. You are wrong, not for what you think is making accurate observations, but for taking the observations you have made and then making base assumptions about billions of people in the world. David, you can’t erase thousands of years of history, tradition and religion. If you want the Muslim world to change, I guarantee you that it will never change by trying your hardest to destroy Islam. Perhaps you should focus on changing hearts and minds through other means. Perhaps by proactively joining organizations that bring education and cultivation to certain parts of the muslim world. If your agenda is to destroy Islam – you won’t and you can’t. If you’re agenda is to see Muslims know Christ, introduce them to your God. You don’t have to destroy their religion to bring them to yours.
"It’s very difficult to fill American streets and protest against the Taliban and other terrorist organizations"
But why is it so easy to fill streets with protests against Israel, cartoons, YouTube videos, etc.? And that's the entire point. You can tell a lot about a religion by what infuriates its adherents.
"you can’t bring political awareness and justice through peaceful means when it comes to organizations that are devoted to inflicting endless terror, you have to work to stop the advancement of terrorism in other ways."
As far as I can tell, the other ways are (1) do nothing, and (2) pretend terrorism has nothing to do with Islam. (1) is cowardly and (2) is dishonest. That's why I prefer to expose Islam's teachings, which result directly in terrorism.
"Yes there are muslims who have gotten angry over cartoons, but I know a ton of muslims who don’t care about the cartoons."
Hmmm. One group riots in the streets; the other doesn't care. Which group is doing what Muhammad commanded his followers to do? (Hint: Muhammad ordered his followers to assassinate critics.) But if they don't care about cartoons, why would they be at all offended by my comments on this blog?
"Yes there are muslims who are outraged over the war in Afghanistan, but all the Afghani Muslims I know love the fact that the American troops are there."
And the American troops will be abandoning Afghanistan soon, leaving the America-loving Muslims in a country with Muslims who actually care what Islam teaches. How do you think that's going to turn out for pro-America Muslims, Negeen? You need to be more realistic here.
"People hold public protests to influence legislators and politicians to make changes, well American legislators and politicians have already been fighting a lot of these huge terror camps for years."
Since terrorism is going through the roof, how's that "fighting terror camps" going?
"Muslims are NOT okay with killings in the name of their religion, my parents certainly are not."
Any Muslim who isn't okay with killing in the name of his religion isn't okay with Islam, which commands Muslims to kill in the name of Allah. You keep referring to these peaceful, pro-American Muslims, when Muhammad called them hypocrites.
"You are wrong, not for what you think is making accurate observations, but for taking the observations you have made and then making base assumptions about billions of people in the world."
Show me where I made any assumption about "billions of people in the world." Are you even referring to Muslims? There aren't billions of Muslims in the world. And when I say that the Muslim population doesn't get nearly as upset over attacks by Muslims as they get about Israel, cartoons, etc., that's simply a fact (not an assumption). To deny the obvious is delusional.
"David, you can’t erase thousands of years of history, tradition and religion."
Who's trying to erase thousands of years of anything? More than 270 million people have been killed in the name of Allah, and it's not slowing down (especially when people are so quick to defend Islam). You're the one who's trying to erase history, tradition, and religion (by trying to convince people that Islam is sunshine and roses).
"If you want the Muslim world to change, I guarantee you that it will never change by trying your hardest to destroy Islam."
I suppose we'll change the Muslim world by praising Islam and keeping people from examining it? Silly. The younger generation in several Muslim countries is already abandoning Islam. Would you like to convince them that Islam is the truth?
"Perhaps you should focus on changing hearts and minds through other means."
Let me guess: By praising Islam, ignoring Islam's violent teachings, and sitting around as radical Muslims seize power in country after country? Yeah, that's definitely better than the truth, right?
"Perhaps by proactively joining organizations that bring education and cultivation to certain parts of the muslim world."
People have been trying that for years. When has it ever worked? Are you saying I should build a school, but ignore the fact that the Taliban will poison the girls who go to the school?
"If your agenda is to destroy Islam – you won’t and you can’t.
Says who? Islam is obviously false and absurd. It's only survived by killing critics, killing apostates, complaining about Islamophobia, etc. As soon as Muhammad's teachings become common knowledge, Islam will crumble.
If you’re agenda is to see Muslims know Christ, introduce them to your God. You don’t have to destroy their religion to bring them to yours."
This is simply false. Most of the former Muslims I know left Islam after seeing Islam exposed. True, certain Muslims simply need to hear the Gospel, but many Muslims won't consider any alternatives until they realize that Islam has problems. By pretending that there are no problems, we give them no reason to think they need to change.
I'm not sure what kind of "Chrislam" proponents you've been hanging out with, but I've never seen the "Let's praise Islam until Muslims become Christians" approach work anywhere. Indeed, by the end of some of their presentations, I'm surprised Christians don't convert to Islam!
Please do not ever accuse me of promoting “Chrislam” I don’t believe in it at all. And have often spoken against it. I don’t hang out with Christians who say that you praise Islam until muslims become Christians. I hang out with Christians who know that preaching Christ crucified is powerful enough to save, no more, no less. Let me say this if any Muslim in the world comes to Christ because they suddenly don’t believe in Islam or because they see Islam in a much more negative light, then they are not saved. If anyone comes to Christ because of anything other than realizing that they’re a sinner and that Jesus is their savior than they’re not saved. Theological barriers need to be removed sometimes sure, but theological barriers are things like the trinity, God becoming flesh etc, NOT replacing a peaceful perspective of Islam with a violent one. Even with those theological barriers being removed the only thing that brings man to Christ is, “I’m a sinner, I need Jesus” end of story. It's not that I think, "David don't ever talk about Islam", but it's just the way you do it and the generalizations that you make. No muslim is going to read or listen to what you have to say and think "hmm maybe he is right". In the type of ministry you're in you should always consider that there will be Muslims watching your videos and that the ultimate objective is to see those muslims come to Christ. But when you make videos where you're wearing pink polka dot spaghetti straps, it's obvious that seeing the muslim come to Christ is not at all in purview of your thoughts. I don't know what else to say to you, because you're not stupid, I'm years younger than you, and know I'm not smarter than you. But on this one, I think I'm right and I think that sometimes the things you say and do is not productive and if it's not hurting many, I certainly do not see it bringing sheep into the fold.
"I hang out with Christians who know that preaching Christ crucified is powerful enough to save, no more, no less."
Interesting. The Christians you hang out with seem to know more about Christianity than Jesus, Paul, the Apostles, and the first thousand years of Christian evangelists. They constantly refuted false teachers, criticized idolatry, condemned false beliefs, etc.
"Let me say this if any Muslim in the world comes to Christ because they suddenly don’t believe in Islam or because they see Islam in a much more negative light, then they are not saved."
I didn't say they're saved by seeing Islam in a negative light. I'm saying they refuse to even consider Christianity as an option until they recognize that Islam isn't the perfect religion they've been told it is. Nabeel, for instance, reasoned that even if I show him with 99% certainty that Jesus rose from the dead, Islam is 100% certain, so Christianity still loses. It wasn't until we discussed the problems in Islam that he started to treat Christianity as an option. But if I had followed your method, he would have never seen the problems with Islam. It's strange that you're advocating a method that would leave people convinced that Islam is obviously true.
"If anyone comes to Christ because of anything other than realizing that they’re a sinner and that Jesus is their savior than they’re not saved."
It's not that simple. People need to believe in God. Would you say that we shouldn't refute atheism? People need to reject false beliefs, such as the belief that Muhammad was a prophet. But how can we ever show that Muhammad wasn't a prophet, when we can't discuss it?
Theological barriers need to be removed sometimes sure, but theological barriers are things like the trinity, God becoming flesh etc, NOT replacing a peaceful perspective of Islam with a violent one.
Strange, one of the main reasons many Muslims come to Christianity is that they contrast the violent teachings of Islam with the peaceful teachings of Christ (Mosab Yousef, for instance), and this leads them to consider the Gospel. But according to you, we should never show them that Islam is violent, because it won't help. Do you not realize that what you're promoting is utterly contrary to the experience of many converts to Christianity? Are you saying that Mosab Yousef, Nabeel, and countless others aren't really Christians, simply because they saw massive problems with Islam before they left Islam?
"Even with those theological barriers being removed the only thing that brings man to Christ is, “I’m a sinner, I need Jesus” end of story."
What did they do to you in Texas?
"It's not that I think, "David don't ever talk about Islam", but it's just the way you do it and the generalizations that you make."
Again, I have no idea what generalizations you're referring to. My method is generally (1) to point to some problem in the Muslim world, and (2) to show how Muhammad's teachings lead to this problem. What most Muslims think or do doesn't enter into the analysis. What exactly do you even mean by "generalization"? You seem to be using it in some way I'm not familiar with.
"No muslim is going to read or listen to what you have to say and think "hmm maybe he is right"."
It's amazing how you constantly say things that are totally contrary to reality. Muslims constantly listen to what I say, and I hear from Muslims all the time who are leaving Islam (most of them don't want to make it public). Following your theory, Father Zachariah Boutros must be the most evil man in the world, yet thousands upon thousands of Muslims have left Islam because of his work. Do your theories have any empirical implications? Because your theories are thoroughly refuted by experience.
"But when you make videos where you're wearing pink polka dot spaghetti straps, it's obvious that seeing the muslim come to Christ is not at all in purview of your thoughts."
Hmmm. If you thought the purpose of that video was "seeing Muslims come to Christ," you missed the point of the video. The purpose of the video was "Don't enforce Sharia, or I'll expose your prophet."
"I don't know what else to say to you, because you're not stupid, I'm years younger than you, and know I'm not smarter than you. But on this one, I think I'm right and I think that sometimes the things you say and do is not productive and if it's not hurting many, I certainly do not see it bringing sheep into the fold."
Again, your theories say one thing, my experience says something else.
It is nice to see you back on this blog (in fact, people were wondering why you weren't named in the Dearborn civil lawsuit). However, it is quite shocking to see you accuse David's ministry. Of all the people, you should know better since you worked with him - at least for a while. Didn't you?
First, stop putting God in a box. God can and does use both the "soft" and "hard" approaches for reaching Muslims. There are those whose calling is to just serve Muslims without much preaching, there are those who preach the Gospel in a non-confrontational manner and then there are those who God calls to confront head-on and expose the lies and deceit. There are different kinds of Muslims and what one works for one does not work for others. But ALL the approaches are needed. In fact, I would say the approach that God needs the most now is the one that one that very few are ready to volunteer. That indeed is pioneering work for God's kingdom.
Maybe David's videos are not for your parents. Maybe "soft" approach works for them the best (Indeed sometimes one can't actually tell which approach works since God works quite unexpectedly). But if you only follow "soft" approach, tell me how do you reach Muslims at Speakers Corner? How do you reach Muslim debaters like Osama or those who visit his websites? There are millions and millions of Muslims who are lied to about Christianity (and also Islam) and are completely brainwashed. Now, how do you reach them by just clarifying theology?
Second, don't fall for the lies of those who constantly belittle other Christian ministries because their approach is different from ones own. I really hate this attitude of some Christians who in their narrow mindedness and ignorance, think that their own ministry style is better and effective and a different style is ineffective or at best counter-productive. They, instead of embracing diversity and helping, supporting and encouraging other Christians whose ministry is different from their own, constantly put others down and oppose them. They are indeed working against the kingdom. How sad! What ever happened to taking heed of Jesus' words, "Those who are not against us are for us"! (Mark 9:10)
God gives different ministries to different people based on their talents and his sovereignty. (There was a time I used to cringe on hearing some street preachers preach (on sin, hell etc) while walking though downtown. I later met and heard from a street preacher about his ministry and realized how it is such a hard work and that there are many people who do come to Christ through such ministry. It was an eye opener and I learned not to judge other people's ministries because it is not my style or not comfortable to me.) So since it is God's work, instead of bickering among each other - can we be united and support each other? Jesus' last prayer was for our unity and Paul (who himself was opposed by those who either did not like him or his ministry to the Gentiles) wrote so much about unity. Don't throw all that under the bus.
David's ministry is the hardest one where you not only are under constant threat from Muslims and get arrested in your own country for exercising freedom of speech but also get scorned by other fellow Christians who just have no clue. He is involved in a pioneering work where a lot needs to be done and very few are doing anything. Like many other Christian pioneers he has been facing opposition from both the world and other clueless Christians. Lets support him and pray for him instead of opposing him! He needs it!
And if you indeed like to help, maybe you should instead ask your Christian friends to volunteer to help and train themselves in such a ministry. We actually need tens and hundreds of people like David! "The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few" (Matthew 9:37).
God bless you!
I see that you didn't respond to either David or me. You made a serious accusation of David's ministry and it is not nice if you either don't acknowledge your mistake in humility or respond with a counter argument. So if you are either checking this post or are subscribed to receive follow-up comments could you please care to respond?
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