Sunday, January 27, 2013

Iran Sentences Christian Pastor Saeed Abedini to Eight Years in Prison for Evangelism

Pastor Saeed Abedini is in prison for starting house churches in Iran several years ago. We see the results of Sharia every day. Yet if we say, "Such laws must never be enforced in the West," we are immediately labeled racist, Islamophobic, hate-mongering bigots. Is Pastor Abedini a "racist" for thinking that Sharia is a threat to his rights and safety?


FoxNews--Christian pastor Saeed Abedini, an American imprisoned in Iran on charges of evangelizing, was sentenced this morning to eight years in prison.

According to the American Center for Law and Justice, Abedini was verbally sentenced in Tehran by Judge Pir-Abassi, known as the “hanging judge,” to eight years in prison for threatening the national security of Iran through his leadership in Christian house churches. He will serve the time in Iran’s notorious Evin Prison, known as one of the most brutal.

The evidence, the ACLJ reports, was based on Abedini’s activities primarily during the early 2000s, when house churches were not considered a threat in Iran. (Continue Reading.)

110 comments:

Warren Searles said...

There sentence is in direct violation for Surah 57 verse 28 as translated, as follows: O you who believe [in Musa (Moses) (i.e. Jews) and 'Iesa (Jesus) (i.e. Christians)]! Fear Allah, and believe too in His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), He will give you a double portion of His Mercy, and He will give you a light by which you shall walk (straight), and He will forgive you. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
As translated by Muhammad Muhsin Khan.

As long as a Christian does not speak against His Messenger (Muhammad) we can openly proclaim the gospel of mercy. Surah 57verse 27 reads: Then, We sent after them, Our Messengers, and We sent 'Iesa (Jesus) - son of Maryam (Mary), and gave him the Injeel (Gospel). And We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him, compassion and mercy. Again the above is as translated by Muhammad Muhsin Khan.

As a Christian I find no reason to speak against Muhammad and I indeed include him in the company of the prophets of Jehovah 'Elohiym or Allah however you want to address the Creator of all. Therefore, If Pastor Saeed Abedini did not speak against Muhammad, it is then the Iranians are the guilty parties not the pastor of violating the Quran.

David Wood said...

Warren,

You seem to think that you can quote a verse of the Qur'an and ignore everything else the Qur'an says, along with everything Muhammad and his companions said. Apostasy is punishable by death under Sharia. Trying to convert a Muslim to Christianity counts as a form of "mischief making" under Sharia. Care to quote 5:33 on the penalty for making mischief in a Muslim land?

Warren Searles said...

I'm not suggesting that they are right, I'm suggesting that they are not following their own teachings.

David Wood said...

Muslims don't determine their teachings by quoting a single verse and then ignoring everything else the Qur'an and Muhammad say. No orthodox, educated Muslim would say that Christians are free to preach the Gospel in an effort to convert Muslims in a Muslim country.

bob said...

To warn our nieghbours of impending danger (read the Koran for the details) would logically have priority over any charges of "political incorrectness" and the "fear mongering" that is sometimes required to get people's attention.

...but others save with fear, pulling them from the fire. Jude 23

@Warren Searles,

"As a Christian I find no reason to speak against Muhammad and I indeed include him in the company of the prophets of Jehovah 'Elohiym or Allah however you want to address the Creator of all."

This statement goes against, and is exposed as false by 1John 4:1-3

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh (God was manifested in the flesh. 1Timothy 3:16) is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. and this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world."

To be a Christian and "proclaim the gospel of mercy" also requires that we expose the Gospel's enemies, as Christ did in Matthew 23 where he served notice to the hypocritical religious hierachy (i.e. popes, bishops, sultans, shieks, imams, clerics, etc.)

Being a Christian means being on the front line of an intense spiritual war.

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.
For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal (physical) but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds (e.g. Islam),
casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowlege of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ. 2Corinthians 10:4, 5

Warren Searles said...

Please test the spirits, you will find that you are not speaking the spirit of our lord Jesus. You are being directed by a spirit not of Jesus and His Father My Lord and Saviour!

David Wood said...

Wow. You make a false claim about Islamic doctrine, and when I correct you, you say that I'm under the control of Satan? So according to you, God wants people to misunderstand Islam, while Satan wants people to know the truth about Islam? Interesting theology you have.

Warren Searles said...

Your answer is proof, thank you.

Anthony Rogers said...

It was the apostle John who told us to "test the spirits," and it was the same apostle who gives us the basis for concluding that Muhammad, far from being someone we should include "in the company of the prophets," was actually an antichrist.

"Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge. I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that he made to us — eternal life." (1 John 2:18-25)

"By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God." (1 John 4:13-15)

Warren, since you profess that God is your Father, you should not be perverting Scripture to teach that Muhammad is a prophet when Muhammad DENIED THE FATHER AND THE SON.

Foolster41 said...

Indeed, Warren is promoting "another gospel" (Gal 1:8), which is following a universalist heresy. From what I've read on the life of Mohammad and the Koran, I really don't see how one can accept the words and deeds of Moahhamad as a Christian prophet since what he did and taught contradicts the teachings of Christ! (but perhaps Warren can explain this)

Jesus warned about false prophets and teachers such as Mohammad and Warren in Matt 7:21. ""Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

@Warren, I pray you will read closer the bible and examine closer the words and deeds of Mohammad and see there is only one path to God (through the saving faith of Jesus and the blood of his sacrifice) and that Moahammad's words and deeds were vile and contradict the teachings of Christ.

So now bob needs to test the spirits, because why? You don't give a reason or explain how Mohammad's teachings is in line with that of Christ. This just is immature (basically "I know what you are but what am I?") and not very honest, and should be a warning sign.

Caricature said...

Warren,

Don't be so hilarious.

Muhammad - the first born child of Satan- Luther

I am having a hard time believing that you are serious.

Remember Muhammad claimed that Jesus didnt die on the cross.

So will you agree that Muhammad was the one that had a demon?

coptic crusader said...

@Mr. Samuel Green
AMEN Brother!!! You summed that up beautifully!

coptic crusader said...

My bad, that was posted by Mr.Rogers lol... Don't know why I thought it was Mr Green.. Apologize 4 the brain fart! it was well said regardless... Peace

JP Pŕáşãď said...

@ David Wood .
If there is any possibility to debate with All India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB),, i strongly request such possibilities,, and beyond that to other asia Islamic groups ,, in Malaysia, Indonesia, etc ,, there is vast opportunities for debate n discussion in asia.

If there is any possibility of connecting this blog to Google +.. then it will be easy to be updated about posts n follow this blog for the readers,,

bob said...

Warren,

A Christian always stands on the authority of God's word in the Bible. Where is some scripture to back up your statements and claims?

Pastor Jason Harris said...

I'm applying for mission work in a heavily Muslim area in South Asia. Despite a more liberal government and open society there, I'm not wearing rose colored glasses. I realize that preaching Christ absolutely DOES require clearly rejecting anti-Christ and doctrines of demons. A wise man once said that catechesis is the process of destroying someone's god. Such a god may be wealth or sex or Islamic supremism or weak pseudo-ecumenical pacificationism. Faithful, orthodox proclamation of Christ alone will always invoke rage and hatred from the world, but the Lord is with his church and the gates of hell itself shall not prevail against it. Though my head may eventually roll, the Gospel shall march on unfettered.

TPaul said...

Warren,
Remember what Christ taught, " you cannot serve two masters..." and that is exactly what you are attempting to do. Muhammad's religion holds Christianity in the lowest esteem because he denied the sonship of Jesus, yet you insult our Lord by "including him in the company of prophets". Do you even realize what you are saying?
Christians like you with these absurd ideas of ecumenical harmony are the ones paving the way for Islam to take over.
Do your home work on this evil cult before you try to mix urine with the purest of wines.

Warren Searles said...

The only claim I have made is that the Quran does not attack the children of Israel nor does it attack the children of the gospel. Carefully read what I have written, I have written that the Quran does not attack I cannot address the acts of men.

In fact the Quran pleads with the children of the scriptures, the children of Israel and the Children of the Gospel, we who love Jesus, to return to our first love. The Quran proclaims that God will richly reward us for our obedience to our “first Love.” There is not time or space in a blog to explain what my lord Jesus has shown me, but I will sum it up by quoting Jesus from Matthew 5 verse 43 through 48 from the New Living Translation:

“You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven; for he gives his sunlight to both the evil and to the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that. But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

We will never win the Muslim to the Gospel if we approach them with hate in our hearts. Please study the Bible and read the Quran in prayer and guidance from the Holy Spirit. Then pray for our Muslim brothers, in God’s creation, that they too will enter the Kingdom-of-heaven.

Jamal Hassan said...
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David Wood said...

The Qur'an doesn't attack Jews and Christians? I guess no one bothered to tell the Qur'an that. 9:29 specifically COMMANDS Muslims to "fight" us because of our beliefs:

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

The very next verse calls on Allah to destroy us because of our beliefs:

"And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

The Qur'an (98:6) even refers to Jews and Christians who reject Islam as the "worst of creatures":

"Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures."

Oops! I forgot that, according to Warren, God wants Christians to deliberately whitewash the Qur'an. Warren believes that only Satan wants non-Muslims to understand what the Qur'an actually says. Thus, anyone who accurately reports what the Qur'an teaches is, according to Warren, INSPIRED BY SATAN!

David Wood said...

Jamal said: "@Caricature are you seriously quoting Luther? The anti-Semitic?"

Is it just me, or did a Muslim just accuse someone of being an anti-Semite?

Jamal Hassan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
TPaul said...

I could be wrong but, me thinks Warren is a Jehovah's witness, hence he has no problem denying the divinity of Christ.( He calls Yahweh, Jehovah and the father his lord and saviour) It is extremely easy for JWs to make the next 'logical' leap of faith by accepting Mohammed as a prophet.
If they accept the word of one deceptive 'angel' it is not hard to believe the demon of the cave of Hira was an angel of God.

David Wood said...

I didn't say anything about Luther. I asked if a Muslim, who believes that Allah transformed the Jews into apes and swine, who believes that Jews are "the worst of creatures," who believes that he can't be friends with Jews, who believes that Jews must be violently subjugated, and who believes that, at the end of time, trees will cry out, "There's a Jew behind me; come kill him"--I was wondering if a person who believes all of this is actually complaining about anti-semitism.

David Wood said...

And I have to ask: Did a Muslim who just dismissed a remark about Luther by appealing to Luther's anti-semitic views just say, "But that would be ad-hominem wouldn't it David?"? So criticizing Muhammad (the highest prophetic authority in Islam) for slaughtering Jews is a logical fallacy, but criticizing Luther (who isn't an authority at all in Christianity) is insightful?

Sometimes I think that people like Jamal revel in their inconsistency. It's like he's bragging about his utter lack of logic.

Caricature said...

Jamal,

Sadly Christians do stupid things. At least they are honest enough to admit it.

But I am curious, do you love Jews?

A classic example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Warren Searles said...

I gather from reading your comments the art of Christian Apology has been lost. Yes, the Quran does not recognize the Trinity as we understand it. The only response I am going to proffer is that you consider the Trinity from the Father’s point of view. If you can see the Father, Son and Holy Spirit from His point of view you can understand the approach being take to reach the Islamic people for Him. If you are having trouble seeing the Father view, please pray for His guidance.

TPaul said...

In the first place you will not win any hearts for Christ if you profess Mohammed to be in the line of prophets according to Christian understanding. Basically what you are doing is confirming Islam to be of divine origin... If so then why would you think a Muslim would leave Islam to flow your wishy washy version of Christianity?

If you are using 'love your enemy' methodology simply to snare them then that is taqiya, not Christian love.

Sometimes tough love is what is needed to combat the falsehood of Islam, not confirming it with sweet nothings like you are professing to do.

If people like you continue on this ludicrous path, Christ's redemptive message will be steamrolled by Islam's aggressive agenda, while you sing kumbaya.

David Wood said...

Warren said: "I gather from reading your comments the art of Christian Apology has been lost."

In Warren's theology, "Christian apology" means whitewashing the Qur'an, accepting Muhammad as a prophet (even though Muhammad denied all three core elements of the Gospel), and accusing people who correct him of being demon-possessed.

I wonder if this is what the Apostle Peter meant when he commanded Christians to be apologists.

Jamal Hassan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jamal Hassan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Caricature said...

It's interesting how Warren ignored my question.

That's cool. His silence says it all.

But just in case, Warren, will you agree that Muhammad is really the one that had a demon since he claimed that Jesus wasn't crucified?

Warren Searles said...

In answer to your question, Of course I love Israel and pray for the piece of Jerusalem, I trust you do too. Unfortunately your question is not appropriate to the conversation so I ignored it.

Warren Searles said...

But just in case, Warren, will you agree that Muhammad is really the one that had a demon since he claimed that Jesus wasn't crucified?

Please support the claim that Muhammad wrote in the Quran that Jesus was not crucified. I would be interested in the chapter and verse where he wrote that claim.

Caricature said...

Jamal,

What makes you think I am a Lutheran?

Don't be an idiot.

But How about asking me some honest questions?

So, you claim to love Jews. How do you harmonize that with what your book teaches?

What gives you the right to reform Islam?



Warren Searles said...

TPaul said... If you are using 'love your enemy' methodology simply to snare them then that is taqiya, not Christian love.

I do not believe that you are using the word Taqiyya correctly, please look it up. I am not pretending to deny my faith in the Lord Jesus, I am making an apology for that faith.

Sometimes tough love is what is needed to combat the falsehood of Islam, not confirming it with sweet nothings like you are professing to do.

Also, please define “sweet nothings.” The attempt to understand those you are not in accord with is not un-Christ like or going “soft” on a belief.

Arrow said...

Jamal,

Allah does not forbid you to treat kindly and act equitably towards those who have neither fought you in the matter of religion

What do you mean by “fought you in the matter of religion”? Islam attacks our beliefs and commands you to wage unsolicited wars against us. Doesn't, therefore, Islam fight us “in the matter of religion”? According to you code of ethics, doesn't that justify us in treating you unkindly and inequitably?

Indeed Allah loves the just

You have a really twisted definition of just.

aaron said...

@jamal
there is a huge difference between God being anti Semite then a man being anti Semite.

Search 4 Truth said...

I really dont have time for this! But Jamal That sura was abrogated! Thats sura 60:8. Either you knew that and didnt want to post the sura number, or your ignorant of Islamic doctrine.


* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ لاَّ يَنْهَاكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي ٱلدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُمْ مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوۤاْ إِلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يُحِبُّ ٱلْمُقْسِطِينَ }

God does not forbid you in regard to those who did not wage war against you, from among the disbelievers, on account of religion and did not expel you from your homes, that you should treat them kindly (an tabarrūhum is an inclusive substitution for alladhīna, ‘those who’) and deal with them justly: this was [revealed] before the command to struggle against them. Assuredly God loves the just.

Tafsir al-Jalalayn, trans. Feras Hamza
© 2012 Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Amman, Jordan

If you do not follow Islam properly then you are not following Islam. (Naskh) refers to one Quranic verse superseding another, and is itself supported by Quranic verses and various hadith narrations. Understanding the necessity for Naskh is crucial in understanding Islam and its theology. It's strange how often I have to teach Muslims how to follow Islam.

bob said...

Luther was anti-heresy, that is, anything that undermined the Gospel (good news of salvation) of Christ. When he says "Jews" he is speaking against their doctrine and against their religious hierarchy (as Christ himself did in Matt 23 i.e. "Den of vipers" and in John 8 "You are of your father the devil") rather than them personally as a race.
If he was an anti-Semite he would not have spent such a great amount of time and energy in trying to convert them to Christ.

His attack on the heresys of the Jews (read: The Jews and their Lies, by Luther), Islam and the pope etc. simply reflects his staunch defence of the Gospel and his great love for his redeemer, Christ.

It should also be noted that his was the general manner of speech among the population in that part of the world in those times i.e. a bit rough.

Jamal, why is an Islamist criticising Luther when Islam is full of anti-Semitism and abuse, deceit, killing, stealing, rape etc. of non-believers?

Mandy said...

Dear Mr.Wood, I am writing from Belgium. I did not find a contact email so am contacting you through this comment. We are interested in your brochure on the three stages of jihad to perhaps translate it into Dutch and possibly French if you have not already done so. Wondering where to find it and if that would be ok with you. Found one link but it was down. Mandy

Caricature said...

Warren,

let's make this simple:

Are you Armenian, Reformed, JW, 7th day etc.?

Caricature said...

Bob great response.

Jamal Hassan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Deleting said...

Jamal said, " I'm waiting for the Banu Qurayza escape tactic. But that would be ad-hominem wouldn't it David?"

David responded to the "..."But that would be ad-hominem wouldn't it David?"?" part..
Me-What the $%^^#!!! What escape plan Jamal? They were MASSACRED by your ANTI-SEMITE prophet! The Banu Qurayza did NOTHING to deserve what he did. Period. The end.

Sorry if that's too 'ad hominem' for you.

bob said...

Warren,

Your quote of Matthew 5:43-48 (...but I say love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you...) is in a completely different context from my critique of your statement.

That we should love our enemies is unrelated to my pointing out by means of 1John 4:1-3 that your claim...

"As a Christian I find no reason to speak against Muhammad and I indeed include him in the company of the prophets of Jehovah 'Elohiym or Allah however you want to address the Creator of all."

...goes against Scripture and is therefore false.

Love your enemies by all means as per Christ's command in Matthew 5, but don't compromise Christ's doctrine.

Samatar Mohamed said...

@Warren

"Please support the claim that Muhammad wrote in the Quran that Jesus was not crucified. I would be interested in the chapter and verse where he wrote that claim."

Well, the verse you are looking for is Surah 4, verse 157, and according to muslim belief, it was not written by the prophet (pbuh).

Surah 4, verse 157:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";― but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.

David Wood said...

Mandy,

I've had problems with the file since I switched to a Blogger account. I'm hoping to figure it out eventually.

In the meantime, you can send me an email at wood_apologetics@hotmail.com, and I'll give you the file.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Warren

4.157
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-


* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا ٱلْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ٱبْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ ٱللَّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَـٰكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ وَإِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱخْتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِّنْهُ مَا لَهُمْ بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلاَّ ٱتِّبَاعَ ٱلظَّنِّ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِيناً }

And for their saying, boastfully, ‘We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God’, as they claim: in other words, for all of these [reasons] We have punished them. God, exalted be He, says, in repudiating their claim to have killed him: And yet they did not slay him nor did they crucify him, but he, the one slain and crucified, who was an associate of theirs [the Jews], was given the resemblance, of Jesus. In other words, God cast his [Jesus’s] likeness to him and so they thought it was him [Jesus]. And those who disagree concerning him, that is, concerning Jesus, are surely in doubt regarding, the slaying of, him, for some of them said, when they saw the slain man: the face is that of Jesus, but the body is not his, and so it is not he; and others said: no, it is he. They do not have any knowledge of, the slaying of, him, only the pursuit of conjecture (illā ittibā‘a l-zann, is a discontinuous exception) in other words: ‘instead, they follow conjecture regarding him, that which they imagined [they saw]’; and they did not slay him for certain (yaqīnan, a circumstantial qualifier emphasising the denial of the slaying).


* تفسير Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
{ وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا ٱلْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ٱبْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ ٱللَّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَـٰكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ وَإِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ٱخْتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِّنْهُ مَا لَهُمْ بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلاَّ ٱتِّبَاعَ ٱلظَّنِّ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِيناً }

(And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger) Allah destroyed their man Tatianos. (They slew him not nor crucified, but it appeared so unto them) Allah made Tatianos look like Jesus and so they killed him instead of him; (and lo! those who disagree concerning it) concerning his killing (are in doubt thereof) in doubt about his killing; (they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture) not even conjecture; (they slew him not for certain) i.e. certainly they did not kill him,

Which is of course conjecture. The Quran is so hilarious.

Caricature said...

Jamal,

Go back and read David's comments. And then tell me once again, how is it that you love Jews in spite of the fact that your god hates them?

Caricature said...

Samatar,

So, it's a forgery then?

However, who do you think wrote it?

Satan maybe?

Caricature said...

Jamal,

Do you think Luther was wrong about the Catholic Church?

Caricature said...

Warren,

http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2008/07/irony-of-quransurah-4157-158.html?m=1

You got a lot to learn pal.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Jamal

Firstly the use of the word just is a relative term. Just in the view of Islam is not equality by any means. Just in the view of Islamic doctrine is to fight us until we are subjugated, convert, or die. if we do not accept the extortion of the jizya then you are commanded to continue to fight us until we are dead or subjugated.


Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." "People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews.

Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists (which includes Christians), invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"




Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah." Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik,
"O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?" He replied, "Whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have."
Sahih Bukhari 1:8:387, See also: Sahih Bukhari 1:2:24

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Jamal


I asked 'Ali "Do you have anything Divine literature besides what is in the Qur'an?" Or, as Uyaina once said, "Apart from what the people have?" 'Ali said, "By Him Who made the grain split (germinate) and created the soul, we have nothing except what is in the Quran and the ability (gift) of understanding Allah's Book which He may endow a man, with and what is written in this sheet of paper." I asked, "What is on this paper?" He replied, "The legal regulations of Diya (Blood-money) and the (ransom for) releasing of the captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for killing a Kafir (disbeliever)."
Sahih Bukhari 9:83:50, See also: Sahih Bukhari 1:3:111, and Sahih Bukhari 4:52:283

'Amr b. 'As reported: I heard it from the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) quite audibly and not secretly: Behold! the posterity of my fathers, that is, so and so, are not my friends. Verily Allah and the pious believers are my friends.
Sahih Muslim 1:417

Narrated AbuHurayrah: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man follows the religion of his friend; so each one should consider whom he makes his friend.
Abu Dawud 41:4815

"The Messenger of Allah [said] "Do not keep company with anyone but a believer and do not let anyone eat your food but one who is pious."
Abu Dawud 41:4832

"O you who believe! Take not my enemies And your enemies as friends offering them (Your) love even though they have disbelieved in that Truth (i.e. Allah, Prophet Muhammad and this Quran) which has come to you."
Sahih Bukhari 59:572:

Allah forbids His believing servants from having Jews and Christians as friends, because they are the enemies of Islam and its people, may Allah curse them. Allah then states that they are friends of each other and He gives a warning threat to those who do this"
The Prohibition of Taking the Jews, Christians and Enemies of Islam as Friends
Tafsir Ibn Kathir

“Imitation generates friendship and love, and regarding them as allies in the inside, just as loving them on the inside generates imitating them on the outside.” Allaah tells us that there is no (true) believer who takes a kaafir as a friend, for whoever takes a kaafir as friend is not a believer. Imitation on the outside implies that a person loves (the one whom he imitates), and so it is forbidden.”
Non-Muslim Religious Celebrations and Ruling on participataing
Ibn Taymiyyah

Jamal Hassan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Search 4 Truth said...

@ Jamal

Would it be just for us to be commanded to fight all non Christians until you have been subjugated or killed?

Abu Ishaq said that he heard al-Bara' b 'Azib (Allah be pleased with him) say: The last complete sura revealed (in the Holy Qur'an) is Sura tauba (i e. al-Bara'at, ix.), and the last verse revealed is that pertaining to Kalala.
Sahih Muslim 11:3941

“When it was asked to Ali, (one of the rightly guided caliphs of Islam) about the lack of Bismi in this chapter, Ali replied: “Bismi’s implication is trustworthiness. But this Chapter was revealed with a sword”
Tafsir Qurtubi. 8

Narrated Said bin Jubair: I asked Ibn Abbas about Surat Al-tauba, and he said, "Surat Al-tauba? It is exposure (of all the evils of the infidels and the hypocrites). And it continued revealing (that the oft-repeated expression): '...and of them ...and of them.'till they started thinking that none would be left unmentioned therein."
Sahih Bukhari 6:60:404

Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Paying Jizyah is a Sign of Kufr and Disgrace
Allah said, (until they pay the Jizyah), if they do not choose to embrace Islam, (with willing submission), in defeat and subservience, (and feel themselves subdued.), disgraced, humiliated and belittled. Therefore, Muslims are not allowed to honor the people of Dhimmah or elevate them above Muslims, for they are miserable, disgraced and humiliated.

WHat Islam calls just, the rest of the world calls oppression, persecution, fascism, extortion, and bigotry.

Jamal Hassan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Caricature said...

Jamal,

You have a really bad habit of asking loaded questions
and manufacturing dishonest statements.

Hey Jamal,

Does the god that you imagine exists only love Muslims?

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Jamal

Well lets be consistent with your reasoning. Shall we?

Quote " You're telling me your your infinitely loving willing to kill himself god allowed Christians to be mislead by Catholicism for 1400 years and then all of a sudden he allows a vulgar anti-Semite to restore the religion?"

Actually thats what Muslims say. They say that God allowed his previous message to be alterted or lost or whatever todays lie is. And that it took him until 600 years after Jesus died to bring your false Prophet Mohamed.

Not to mention that as a result of your Allahs deception by making it appear as though jesus died on the cross, but actually didnt (LOL). Allah created Christianity and led billions of people astray. Now did Allah know the result of his deception would be Christianity or did he crate Christianity intentionally? Because the everyone knows that Christianity came as a result of Jesus death. So Allah is responsible for Christianity., Either directly or indirectly.

Caricature said...

Jamal,

So, then your god hates Jews and Christinans?

Why are you trying to get around this fact?

Jamal's god is like a two year old if he doesn't get his way he gets a temper tantrum.

It's hilarious.

Excalibur said...

Islam, the religion of the Anti-Christ himself.

aaron said...

@Jamal
funny jamal why you do not read the other half of the same wikipedia article

"Since the 1980s, Lutheran Church denominations have repudiated Martin Luther's statements against the Jews and have rejected the use of them to incite hatred against Lutherans.[234][235]"

the church is willing to admit to its pass mistakes unlike Islam. Luther had no grounds in the from the bible to support his claim.

1 Cor 10.32
Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God

Also where the huge difference is one of them is prescription from Allah and the other is from man.

Even those who believe are quite capable of committing sin Jonah for example is one

Excalibur said...

Islam, the religion of the Anti-Christ himself who seeks to divide the Holy land for gain. As desribed in a vision by the Prophet Daniel in Babylon: (Note: Daniel talks about the "despicable thing" standing at the set aside place, this is THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION: THE DOME OF THE ROCK)
Here is Daniel's description of the Anti-Christ: Daniel 11: 36-39

"Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done. 37 He shall regard neither the God[k] of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all. 38 But in their place he shall honor a god of fortresses; and a god which his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things. 39 Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain."
Its also worth stating that verse 1-35 is speaking of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who is ONE OF THE SEVEN KINGS OF REVELATION 13, ONE WHO HAS FALLEN.
"All the seven are like the Anti-Christ".
I know this is off topic but the Son of Man is returning and this must be known!


Search 4 Truth said...

@ Caricature

I can answer that question. YES!

Whats strange is that he calls his creation the worst of creatures even though he is the one who led them astray and cast demons on them.

30.045
YUSUFALI: That He may reward those who believe and work righteous deeds, out of his Bounty. For He loves not those who reject Faith.
PICKTHAL: That He may reward out of His bounty those who believe and do good works. Lo! He loveth not the disbelievers (in His guidance).
SHAKIR: That He may reward those who believe and do good out of His grace; surely He does not love the unbelievers.


* تفسير Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
{ لِيَجْزِيَ ٱلَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ وَعَمِلُواْ ٱلصَّالِحَاتِ مِن فَضْلِهِ إِنَّهُ لاَ يُحِبُّ ٱلْكَافِرِينَ }

(That He may reward out of His bounty those who believe) in Muhammad (pbuh) and in the Qur'an (and do good works) and perform acts of obedience between themselves and their Lord. (Lo! He loveth not the disbelievers) He does not accept their religion.

bob said...

Jamal,

Luther is only telling it like it is. Political correctness had not been invented then and that is how the people of that time spoke. To be heard above the rable, one sometimes needed to turn it up even more.

Many of the terms used by Luther can also be found in Scripture where it describes God's anger with Isreal's disobedience and corrupted moral state.

These terms are used metaphorically i.e. "Defiled bride" and "Incorrigable Whore" and "devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine." etc. and describe the Jew's spiritual condition.
They are not insults born out of hate but are simply describing the reality of their spiritual state.

He was trying to warn both his countrymen and also the Jews who were caught up in Judaism.

"...prohibit their Rabbis to teach, for they have forfeited the right to such an office, because they keep the poor Jews captive with the passage of Moses 7:11, 12, who there commands them to obey their teachers under threat of losing body and soul." The Jews and their Lies, Liberty Bell Publications, 2004, page 38

Luther's version of Christanity is Christ's version of Christianity, as per the Scriptures.

For Luther, everything rested on Christ (the only means of salvation), which is why anything outside of 'faith in Christ alone' (i.e. Islam, Roman Catholicism, Judaism etc.) got hammered.

Excalibur said...

"The Prophet said: The Mahdi… will fill the earth with equity and justice as it was filled with oppression and tyranny, and he will rule for seven years."

“He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time."{Daniel 7:23, (let the reader understand)}

Samatar Mohamed said...

@searchfortruth

"Not to mention that as a result of your Allahs deception by making it appear as though jesus died on the cross, but actually didnt (LOL). Allah created Christianity and led billions of people astray."

And did God give the christians false visions of Jesus (pbuh) rising from the dead also. Obviously not. Christianity rises and falls on the resurrection of Jesus (pbuh), not the crucifixion.

Samatar Mohamed said...

@caricature

"However, who do you think wrote it?

Satan maybe?"

I believe God revealed the Quran not satan, or anyone else for that matter.

Caricature said...

Jamal is fighting a lost battle, and It's utterly hilarious.
It's interesting to see Jamal condemning his god.

TPaul said...

Warren,
"I do not believe that you are using the word Taqiyya correctly, please look it up."
I know,I used it loosely to mean deception.

"I am not pretending to deny my faith in the Lord Jesus, I am making an apology for that faith."

Making an apology for faith in Christ surely does not mean accepting contradictory doctrines that deny the Christ of scripture, and that is what you are doing.

"Also, please define “sweet nothings.” "
Your bogus acceptance of Mohammed as a prophet of God, maybe to appease Muslims? It may or may not please Muslims, but it has absolutely nothing to do with Christ's teachings.

I wonder if you think Muslims will someday reciprocate your soft and mushy "christian" acceptance of Mohammed as a prophet of God with their proclaimation of Jesus as Lord and savior. Wishful thinking.
Accepting Mohammed as prophet Makes you a Muslim, NOT A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST.

"The attempt to understand those you are not in accord with is not un-Christ like or going “soft” on a belief."

Surely I hope in your arrogance you are not equating your wierd persuasions with that of Christ's fellowship with tax collectors and prostitutes. Yes he associated with them, but never once did he condone or accept their lifestyles.

Don't you realize that you insult Christ by accepting an imposter who denied Christ's divinity and finished work of salvation, as a prophet sent by Yahweh?

1 Peter 3
"Be always prepared to make a defence to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you."
How can you say you are making an apologhy for the faith, when instead of giving Muslims a reason for hope that Christ gives, you not only condone but accept their false ones?

Arrow said...

That was a Quran verse I quoted. 60:8... They aren’t my words

It doesn't matter who said it. The logic remain flawed.

One person’s opinion doesn’t reflect the majority

Islam is a religion is of opinions? We cannot know for sure what Allah really means?

the Prophet, peace upon him, encouraged her to accept her mother’s gift, to host her and to treat her with the upmost kindness

Imam Arrow believes that Muhammad made an exception because she was her mother.

bob said...

Jamal,

you ask, "what gives Luther the right to reform Christianity?"

It is the duty of Christians to keep an eye out for and to expose all heresy's. This is beginning of and the meaning of reformation.
Luther was just doing his duty as a Christian by following Christ and holding God's word in the Bible as the sole and highest authority.

On the other hand one could also ask, "what gives Mohammad, who was not a Christian, the right to 'reform' Christianity?"

For example, the Koran [600 A.D.] says:

(1) Rejection of Christ as God and the Trinity:

Surely they are kafirs who say, “Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary.” 5:17

People of the Book [Christians]! Do not overstep the boundaries of your religion and speak only what is true about Allah. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, is only Allah’s messenger and his Word which he sent into Mary was a spirit from him. Therefore, believe in Allah and his messengers and do not say, “Trinity.” Hold back and it will be better for you. Allah is only one god. Far be it from Allah to have a son! All the heavens and earth are His. Allah is the sufficient as a protector. The Messiah does not condescend to be Allah’s servant, nor do his favoured angels. Those who disdain service to Him, are filled with arrogance, Allah will gather them all together before Him. 4:171

(2) They surely blaspheme who say, Allah is the third of the three [The trinity], for there is no god except one Allah, and if they do not refrain from what they say, a grievous penalty will fall on those who disbelieve. 5:72

(3) The Koran denies Christ’s death and resurrection.

They said “We killed the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger.” But they did not kill him or crucify him, although it appeared so to them [the person crucified was not Jesus but a “double”]. And those who argued about it were in doubt concerning him. They had no clear knowledge about him and only went with opinion. They did not really kill him, but Allah lifted him up to himself. 4:156

But the Bible [1440 B.C. to 65-80 A.D.] says:

(1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him nothing was made that was made. John 1:1-3

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:14 (having both a human and divine nature) Between your seed and her Seed (Son of Man, Christ ) Genesis 3:15

For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given… And his name will be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer [Christ], the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the first and the last; besides me there is no God.’” Isaiah 44:6 (repeated by Christ in Revelation 1:11)

For by him [the Son] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth… And he is before all things, and in him all things consist. Colossians 1:16, 17
“…do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.” 1John 4:1-3

By his knowledge my righteous Servant shall justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities. Isaiah 53:11

continued...

bob said...

All the miracles that were performed by Jesus confirmed that he was indeed the Creator in the flesh, and he had no problem in demonstrating his creative power, which was witnessed by many, like feeding 5000 people, turning water into wine, restoring sight to the blind, healing the sick and raising the dead – all creative acts.

His human nature and body (the flesh), after dying on the cross, returned back to life after three days. Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up” John 2:19 (only his human nature was killed. His divine nature remained intact because it is impossible to kill God)

“…I lay down my life that I may take it again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.” John 10:17, 18. Only God has this power.

Jesus also accepted worship and forgave sins which only God has the authority to do since he is the one we have sinned against. “That all should honour the Son just as they honour the Father. He who does not honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent him.” John 5:23

Satan himself was one of the best witness’s that Jesus was God the Creator, when, at the end of forty days of being tempted by the devil, during which time Jesus ate nothing and was hungry, the devil said to him, “If [since] you are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread.” But Jesus answered him, saying, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.’” Luke 4:3, 4. This would have been a pointless temptation if Jesus was not the Creator but just an ordinary man who could not turn stones into bread.

In fact, all the devils/demons/evil spirits were subject to his authority and feared him greatly …there was a man who had a spirit of an unclean demon. And he cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Let us alone! What have we to do with you, Jesus of Nazareth? Did you come to destroy us? I know you, who you are – the Holy One of God!” But Jesus rebuked him, saying, “Be quiet, and come out of him!” Luke 33:33-35.

(2)1. The Father is God.
“…because God the Father has set his seal on him.” John 6:2.

2. The Son is God.
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM [Exodus 3:14].” John 8:58.

3. The Holy Spirit is God.

But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit…? You have not lied to men but to God.” Acts 5:3, 4

Some think that the Holy Spirit is not an individual or person but simply a projection of the Father’s own spirit. However, the following verses show that the Holy Spirit is indeed an individual Person within the triune God.

But he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness… Mark 3:29

Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go near and overtake this chariot.” Acts 8:29

As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Acts 13:2

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30

Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you will hear his voice, do not harden your hearts…” Hebrews 3:7, 8

All three are God.

Then Jesus, when he had been baptized, came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.” Mathew 3:16, 17

...baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” Mathew 28:19

Continued...

bob said...

The word ‘Trinity’ is simply an abbreviation for Father, Son and Holy Spirit; like a team of three like-minded individuals working together in perfect harmony for the same end. In this case, and since they are of the same nature and essence (which is love and light, and are therefore as ‘one’ and have a ‘oneness’) and have a common purpose and a shared authority, the team as a whole is called God, as per Genesis 1:26, 27...

And God said, “Let us make man in our image according to our likeness...” So God created man in his own image; in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

...and Genesis 3:22

Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us, to know good and evil.”

{While the word ‘Trinity’ does not appear in the Bible (but then neither does the word ‘Bible’), the doctrine of the Triune God certainly does. The word was coined centuries after the apostles as a title for this very important doctrine or article of the Christian faith and serves as a descriptive name for that which was there from the beginning anyway, and which only became much clearer during and after (Epistles of Paul) the advent of Christ}

The verses in the Gospels that are commonly used by some (Mathew 19:17; 24:36 and the Temptation of Christ etc.) to claim that Jesus was not God in the flesh actually refer to his temporary earthly servitude (Philippians 2:6-11) in the service of the Father and mankind...

“Yet I am among you as the one who serves.” Luke 22:27

...(Including the example set by him for us to follow), for the purpose of rescuing us from sin and Satan’s hold over us.
Jesus, the Creator, humbled himself and became like a man in order to become an unblemished and perfect sacrifice on our behalf, as foretold all throughout the Old Testament. He was both the Sacrifice and the High Priest who offered it up. He willingly sacrificed his perfect human nature (but leaving his divine nature intact) in order to make atonement for the world’s sins/crimes.

(3) But they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. Then they went in and did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. Luke 24:3

“The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and on the third day rise again.” Luke 24:7.

Without this there would be no salvation for anyone.

Yahya Bulus said...

@warren Searles

I want you to read carefully these quotes from the bible, so you can understand that putting mohammad a false prophet together with the prophets of the bible, then you are speaking blasphemy, and you need to study the bible better to understand the faith of which you claim to be,...

1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world

2 John 1:10-11 - If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

2 Peter 2:1-22 - But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

hugh watt said...

I wonder if Warren is a follower of Rick Warren's Chrislam?

Telling the truth to the lost is to be commended. Trying to appease those who are fighting against Truth must be spoken against regardless of their standing in the community.

Deleting said...

Jamal said, "
They did nothing? Are you mentally challenged? Quit running your mouth with unsupported statements. They committed treason and were punished, and there is not a single reputable scholar who says otherwise."

Are YOU mentally challenged? Quit running YOUR mouth with unsupported statements and saying they committed treason. They didn't. If there were reputable scholars who say otherwise why didn't you post them and what they said.

Because you know I'd look it up. 700 men were savagely beheaded on that day! Any boy who had pubic hair was considered 'a man' by the prophet and also beheaded! Wives and children were taken as sex slaves!
That's what they deserved? To be massacred and raped by a complete wackjob and his cronies?????? Are you mental???

Your prophet had a nasty habit of changing terms. Anyone who disagreed with him he called 'liar'. It's not beyond him to accuse the Banu Qurayza of treason because they wouldn't take his side in disputes.
Not when they had what he wanted.

Besides that, what exactly was their escape plan? You didn't elaborate on that...probably because you can't.
Don't follow his example.

Warren Searles said...

Mr. Bulus, I appreciate you concern, thank you. However, the passages you quote deal with the encroachment of Gnosticism in to the purity of Christ’s person and His teachings. Having read the Quran, there are no Gnostic teachings in the book. Factually the writing is anti-Gnostic.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Samatar

The fact that according to Islamic doctrine your Allah made it appear as though he died in and of itself is a deception of the people.

04.158
YUSUFALI: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
PICKTHAL: But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.


* تفسير Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
{ بَل رَّفَعَهُ ٱللَّهُ إِلَيْهِ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ عَزِيزاً حَكِيماً }

(But Allah took him up unto Himself) in heaven. (Allah was ever Mighty) in His vengeance against His enemies, (Wise) by granting triumph to his friends: He saved His Prophet and destroyed their man.



* تفسير Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
{ بَل رَّفَعَهُ ٱللَّهُ إِلَيْهِ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ عَزِيزاً حَكِيماً }

(But Allah took him up unto Himself) in heaven. (Allah was ever Mighty) in His vengeance against His enemies, (Wise) by granting triumph to his friends: He saved His Prophet and destroyed their man.

Nice try though.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Warren

- The story of the she-camel which leapt out of a rock and became a prophet was known in Arabia long before Muhammad (Suwar 7:73-77; 54:27-29; 91:13-14).

- The story of an entire village of people who were turned into apes because they broke the sabbath by fishing was a popular legend in Muhammad's day (Suwar 2:65; 7:163-166).

- The story of Moses and the gushing twelve springs is found in Surah 2:60ff and comes from pre-Islamic Arabian legends.

- In what is called the "Rip Van Winkle" story, seven men and their animals slept in a cave for 309 years and then woke up perfectly fine (Surah 18:9-26)! This was also a popular story in Arabia at and before Mohammed's time. This legend was also found in Greek and Christian folks fables from that time and before.

- The fable of the pieces of four dead, cut-up birds getting up and flying was well known in Muhammad's time (Surah 2:260).

- The story about the birth of Mary in Surah 3:35-37 appears to be loosely based off of an apocryphal 2nd century work, The Protevangelion of James the Lesser.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Warren

004 Mary working in the temple (in Jerusalem) as child/youth – from “The Proto Gospel after Jacob”, part 8,1 and 8,1b.

005 Jesus talking in the crib – from the religious legend “The Egyptian Child Gospel” perhaps via the as made up “The Arab Child Gospel” (originally from Syria) – both fairy tales about fantastic things concerning the child Jesus. “The Arab Child Gospel” also got stories from “The Proto Gospel after Jacob” and “The Thomas’ Child Gospel” – both made up religious legends or myths.

006 Jesus making birds from clay – read the heretical Gnostic “Child Gospel after Thomas” verse 1 – 4, a very made up child gospel. (Actually none of the storeys about Jesus in the Quran is reckoned by scientists to be true. Actually most of what is said in the Quran about Christian religion, is from apocryphal – made up – sources. Not unnatural as there f. ex. were many Gnostics and other semi-Christian and semi-Jewish sects in the fringes of Christianity. sects. Syria and Arabia definitely were in – and outside – those fringes).

007 Mary and the palm – from the made up religious fable “The Proto Gospel after Mathew”, chapter 20.

008 Muhammad’s Night Journey to Heaven – read about different such travels in Jewish Merabah mysticism or even more the gnostig “Enoc’s Journy to Heaven” (nearly identical to Ibn Ishaq’s by Islam accepted story after Abu Said al-Chudri)

009 The sleepers in the cave – the even today well known religious fable from Efesus, about the 7 youths that fled from emperor Decius (a real emperor reigning only 2 years around 250 AD) and went to sleep in a cave, and then woke up maximum 196 years later (the Quran says 300 or 309 years) under the more well known emperor Theodocius). Just read it – it normally even is better told than in the Quran.

010 Alexander the Great/Duh’l Quarnayn – anyone knowing the story of Alaxander; read this part oft Surah 18 and weep – or laugh. Copycatting at its most naïve. (He f. ex. was no Muslim, he never went west – this we know from history, there no place in the world was enough iron blocks to close off a whole valley around 330 BC, etc.).

Warren Searles said...

You are rambling, please make your point!

Warren Searles said...

Mr. Watt:

I am a Christian and follow only Jesus. However, I have studied the major religions of man to consider why people follow such instead of the truth presented in the person of Jesus Christ.

I do not find Islam as an onus to our foundational belief in the Creator God. Starting from the point that Islam shares our belief in the Creator and does not hold to a pantheistic perspective I seek understanding. From that point of intersection I am attempting to ascertain why Islam is and to what ends are the objectives of its followers.

The apparent objective is that its followers are to submit to the Creator. If this is true, then we (the Muslim and I) can have a conversation. My objective is not to belittle his beliefs, but to communicate my witness as to the life of Christ that is within me. I am only a witness, not the Judge or the Jury of his faith. I leave that to God, see Matthew chapter 19, verse 26.

Yes, I look for the strong points of Islam and seek to understand those, in his belief, that seem to oppose Christ. To better understand my perspectives consider the parable of the sower. The parable has three main objects; they are the seed, the soil and the sower. A prosperous farmer knows his soil and I dear say appreciates that soil. That farmer also knows how to prepare the soil for planting. Then the farmer selects to proper strain of seed to plant in the soil that he knows well. Finally, the sower plants his field attempting to waste no seed.

As the planter I need to come with respect to the field. If I do not study my field in fact I disrespect that soil. If I disrespect the soil, how can I expect a crop to grow?

Caricature said...

Warren,

It's simple.

Was Muhammad a prophet of God.

Yes or No?

Quit evading it only makes you look bad.

The Holy Bible said...

Many people give you a good example of what facts in the Quran and Muhammad commetators, but you ignore express because you ashamed of your so-called prophet.

So you deliberately keep the stupid because you're afraid for your own people who called the Muslims.

TPaul said...

Warren,
Just a couple of questions to determine what your position is in the scheme of things.
1.Do you believe in the divinity of Christ?
2.Do you believe in the Trinity as revealed to believers by Christ himself?
3.Do you believe in Christ's finished redemptive works ie: Through His death, burial and ressurection?
If and only if you have answered a resounding "Yes" to the above questions, then:
4.How do you justify the Koran's rejection of all of the above truths of the Christian faith.

Warren Searles said...

Mr. TPaul:

Yes, I believe that Jesus is God with us; I hold a Trinitarian point of view as to who the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are and by His (Jesus’) righteousness I am saved in this life and the one to come.

It is because I love our Lord that I seek to witness that love to those who we deem to have a difference with. As an example, I have someone close to me who ascribes to a form of Hinduism. This person has gone to India to study at their temple. Though I personally cannot believe what this person believes and I have been called a bloody savage, by them, because of my belief in the Cross of Christ, I still have read all that they have given me concerning their belief structure and their points of view. From that reading I attempt to highlight the truths that make us His Creation and speak gently about those who separate us. Once I’ve done the best I can to show Christ’s love I pray. I’m not convinced in the case of my Hindu friend that I’ve been successful, but on the other hand they have ascribed Jesus to be my Master. If you have any knowledge of the Hindu Religion that is a great leap for a Hindu.

I have been asked by a Muslim to read the Quran. The Quran pleads with the people of the Scriptures to follow God the Creator. This is the starting point of our conversations. If they see Christ in me, the hope of Glory, then I’ve done my job. Again I point to Matthew 19 verse 26 and end this response with Salvation is in God’s hands. Both the Muslim and the Christian agree to that point.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Waren

Who is rambling? I presented evidence of Quranic verses that were taken or inspired by Gnostic fairy tales. All of those things can be found in Gnostic fairy tales and the Quran! What dont you understand?

Your deflecting!

Samatar Mohamed said...

@searchfortruth

Way to avoid my contention searchfortruth. You made the argument that Allah (swt) started christianity by making people think he died. I provided an argument against it, which was that at the most all the people would be deceived about is that Jesus (pbuh) was killed just like the many prophets (pbuh) before him. Again, Christianity rises and falls by the resurrection of Jesus (pbuh), not his crucifixion. Care to respond to the contention or will you continue to avoid it.

Fifth Monarchy Man said...

Samatar said,

Christianity rises and falls by the resurrection of Jesus (pbuh), not his crucifixion.

the word of God says,

Quote:

Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures,
(1Co 15:1-3)

end quote:

Nuff said

peace

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Samatar

Look up. Your Quran says that Allah raised him up unto him. According to Islamic doctrine the event which took place was your Allah made it appear as though Jesus died on the cross. And then it goes on to say that your Allah took Jesus unto him. So your Allah lied and the result of his lie was Christianity. Doesnt everything happen by the will of your Allah?


04.158
YUSUFALI: Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
PICKTHAL: But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.


* تفسير Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
{ بَل رَّفَعَهُ ٱللَّهُ إِلَيْهِ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ عَزِيزاً حَكِيماً }

(But Allah took him up unto Himself) in heaven. (Allah was ever Mighty) in His vengeance against His enemies, (Wise) by granting triumph to his friends: He saved His Prophet and destroyed their man.



* تفسير Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs
{ بَل رَّفَعَهُ ٱللَّهُ إِلَيْهِ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ عَزِيزاً حَكِيماً }

(But Allah took him up unto Himself) in heaven. (Allah was ever Mighty) in His vengeance against His enemies, (Wise) by granting triumph to his friends: He saved His Prophet and destroyed their man.

9.051 Say: "Nothing will happen to us except what Allah has decreed for us: He is our protector": and on Allah let the Believers put their trust.


* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ قُل لَّن يُصِيبَنَآ إِلاَّ مَا كَتَبَ ٱللَّهُ لَنَا هُوَ مَوْلاَنَا وَعَلَى ٱللَّهِ فَلْيَتَوَكَّلِ ٱلْمُؤْمِنُونَ }

Say, to them: ‘Nothing shall afflict us but that which God has decreed for us, that we be afflicted thereby; He is our Protector, our Helper and the One in charge of our affairs; in God let the believers put their trust’.

And with Him are the keys of the unseen treasures-- none knows them but He; and He knows what is in the land and the sea, and there falls not a leaf but He knows it, nor a grain in the darkness of the earth, nor anything green nor dry but (it is all) in a clear book.
Qur'an 6:59

The guiding of them is not thy duty (O Muhammad), but Allah guideth whom He will. And whatsoever good thing ye spend, it is for yourselves, when ye spend not save in search of Allah's Countenance; and whatsoever good thing ye spend, it will be repaid to you in full, and ye will not be wronged.
Qur'an 2:272


* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ لَّيْسَ عَلَيْكَ هُدَاهُمْ وَلَـٰكِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَهْدِي مَن يَشَآءُ وَمَا تُنْفِقُواْ مِنْ خَيْرٍ فَلأَنْفُسِكُمْ وَمَا تُنْفِقُونَ إِلاَّ ٱبْتِغَآءَ وَجْهِ ٱللَّهِ وَمَا تُنْفِقُواْ مِنْ خَيْرٍ يُوَفَّ إِلَيْكُمْ وَأَنْتُمْ لاَ تُظْلَمُونَ }

When the Prophet (s) was prohibited from giving voluntary alms to idolaters [as an incentive] for them to embrace Islam, the following was revealed: You are not responsible for guiding them, that is to say, for people, that they should embrace Islam, [you are responsible] only for conveying the Message [to them]; but God guides, with His guidance, whomever He will, to embrace Islam. And whatever good, property, you expend is for yourselves, since the reward is for you; for then you are expending, desiring only God’s Face (this clause is the predicate, denoting a prohibition), that is to say, His reward and not any other transient object of this world, and whatever good you expend, its requital, shall be repaid to you in full, and you will not be wronged, you will not suffer any diminishment of it (both [of the last two] sentences emphasise the first one).

According to Islamic doctrine it was Allahs will and by his deception that Christianity was born.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Samatar

I didnt avoid it. I answered it long ago. Perhaps you didnt see it. I will wait for your apology. Strange how Allah made it appear that Jesus died, and then raised him up bodily unto him. But allowed a little old Jewish woman to poison Mohamed. Dont you find that strange?

Warren Searles said...

I apologize to you; Search 4 Truth, for not understanding your meaning in what you wrote in the Blog.

I went back and read the story of the young men and the cave. Yes, that does seem fanciful to the Western mind. So does the Sun standing still in Joshua battle with the kings of Canaan, the sun going backwards as a sign to Hezekiah both I believe to have happened as written. The story of the men in the cave, I don't know it and that story is not in the Old Testament. I took it as an allegory of God’s protection for those who believe in Him.

I reread the story of Zacharias and Mary in the Quran, and that story may have several interpretations. However, if you say it is a Gnostic writing then I have a problem with it, because Gnosticism is an abomination and clearly antichristian. I have read several of the Gnostic ‘stories’ but apparently not as many as you.

Concerning the She Camel, that story appears to be allegorical and not factual as are the Jews being turned to Apes.

Finally the discussion of the Crucifixion, the way that account is written it appears that Muhammad is being told by someone else that they crucified Jesus or killed Him is some means. There is an appearance that Muhammad is shocked by their story and in fact denies the story, yet he writes: But Allah raised him ['Iesa (Jesus)] up (with his body and soul) unto Himself (and he is in the heavens). And Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise. (Muhsin Khan)

Do we not agree that God raised Jesus up, body and soul unto himself?

Stories make points, what is a fact and what is metaphorical is sometimes overlapping, yet I am drawn by the seemingly sincerity to know God as expressed by Muhammad. If you are concerned for my soul, please pray for me, I need all the prayer I can get. I truly believe that the time for the spilling of blood should be over, and yes I have read Revelations so my hopes are dim. Return Quickly Lord Jesus!

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Warren

No problems. Except that your not understanding my argument. You said that there were no Gnostic teachings in the Quran. Some of these very stories are from Gnostic stories. If you selectively point to some Gnostic teachings you wont find everything in it to be AntiChristian. Thats doesnt mean that it isnt a Gnostic teaching. Many of the stories come from heretical Gnostic stories. You cant dismiss them by saying oh well they teach something.

And what exactly are you referring to when you say that there are many interpretations Many interpretations of what? Lets take for instance the story of Jesus molding a bird out of clay and then giving it life. No at first look that may not seem like such a big deal. But when you look at the source of that story it comes directly from Gnosticism. And just because you say oh well it may teach us something, that does not dismiss the fact that it is from Gnostics.

You are drawn by the sincerity of Mohamed to know God? You obviously dont know very much about Mohameds sunnah. Your making assumptions. First of all Mohamed never spoke to God. He spoke to a demon named jibreel. And Im not sure if your aware but Jesus said to not accept a Prophet who speaks against him being Christ the savior. Mohamed denied the deity of Jesus! And anyone who does that is a false prophet.


Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"


* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ وَقَالَتِ ٱلْيَهُودُ عُزَيْرٌ ٱبْنُ ٱللَّهِ وَقَالَتْ ٱلنَّصَارَى ٱلْمَسِيحُ ٱبْنُ ٱللَّهِ ذٰلِكَ قَوْلُهُم بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ يُضَاهِئُونَ قَوْلَ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِن قَبْلُ قَاتَلَهُمُ ٱللَّهُ أَنَّىٰ يُؤْفَكُونَ }

The Jews say: Ezra is the son of God; and the Christians say: The Messiah, Jesus, is the son of God. That is the utterance of their mouths, for which they have no support, nay, imitating the utterances of those who disbelieved before [them], from among their forefathers, mimicking them. God assail, curse, them! How they are deviated!, turned away from the truth, despite the proofs having been established.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Warren



And I agree that the time for spilling of blood should be over. But appeasing those that wish to subjugate or spill your blood will not aid you in any way.

And Muslims believe that Jesus is still alive, is NOT the son of God, and when he comes back he will break the cross, end the jizya and kill non believers!


Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."


"By Him in Who’s hands my soul rests, surely Jesus, Son of Maryam (Mary) will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind judiciously, by the law of the Quran, as an honest ruler. He will break the cross, kill the pig and abolish jizya. Money will abound in such excess that no one will wish to accept it. A single prostration to Allah, in prayer, will be better than the whole world and all it contains." Abu Hurayrah, the narrator, added, "If you wish, you can recite this verse from the holy Quran :" "And there is none of the people of the book, but must believe in him (i.e. Jesus as an apostle of Allah and a human being), before his death, and on the Day of Judgement, he will be a witness against them." Quran 4/159
This Hadith expounds upon the justice of Jesus after his descent. Imam Nawawi(d.676/1254) has explained his ruling to be according to the laws of Islam and the teachings of prophet Muhammad. He will abolish Jizya, as it is a kind of payment given by the non-Muslims in lieu of safety and security. Hafiz Ibn Hajar (d.852/1430)has explained the reason behind this as follows: only Islam will be the acceptable religion at the time and thus those who do not profess the faith will not have the option of paying Jizya.

That means accept Islam or death!

Caricature said...

Warren,

I am happy that you have finally come to your senses.

You really and seriously need to understand that the Koran is not from God but from Satan.

Initially Muhammad believed that he was possessed by a demon. What prophet of God ever thought this?

You have a lot of research to do my friend.

Look up Muhammad and the satanic verses and his initial revelations. The man was a suicidal nutcase.


Nothin'ButTheTruth said...

@ Warren,

REPENT IF YOU REALLY ARE A CHRISTIAN.

1. Do you believe Jesus died on the cross?

Qur'an says NO, He DID NOT DIE on the cross:

Q.4:157 And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger THEY SLEW HIM NOT NOR CRUCIFIED HIM, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture ; they slew him not for certain)

-------This verse denies the Crucifixion of Jesus SO HOW DARE YOU SAY MUHAMMAD IS A PROPHET OF THE TRUE GOD?

2. Do you believe Jesus to be the Son of God?

Qur'an says He is NOT the Son of God.

q.9:29-30
29. Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the religion of truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
30. And the Jews say:. Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: THE MESSIAH IS THE SON OF ALLAH. That is THEIR SAYING with their mouths. THEY IMMITATE THE SAYING OF THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE of old. Allah (himself) fighteth against them. HOW PERVERSE ARE THEY.

This verse DENIES JESUS TO BE THE SON OF GOD, and that Christians are perverse for saying that He is the Son of God.

----How dare you call Muhammad a prophet and allah the same God of the Bible.

3. Do you believe in the trinity?

The Qur'an DENIES the Trinity:

Q.4:48, 171, “Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him… 171. SAY NOT "Trinity": DESIST: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) ABOVE HAVING A SON. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.”

Q.5:73 “They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

According to these verses, there is NO TRINITY.

-----HOW DARE YOU CALL MUHAMMAD A PROPHET OF GOD.

CONCLUSION

According to 1 John 2:22, anyone who denies Jesus as the Son of God IS AN ANTICHRIST.

Muhammad DENIED JESUS AS THE SON OF GOD, SO HE IS AN ANTICHRIST. Period!

Nothin'ButTheTruth said...

@ Warren,

Please consider these following quranic verses:

Q.98:6 Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) and
among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein
(for aye). THEY ARE THE WORSE OF CREATURES.

==According to the book you try to defend you are a worse creature if you are indeed a Christian.

Q.9:29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor
hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

==This verse command muslims TO FIGHT YOU AS A CHRISTIAN WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS AS THE SON OF GOD (See Q.9:30).

Nothin'ButTheTruth said...

@Warren,

YOU SAID: The only claim I have made is that the Quran does not attack the children of Israel nor does it attack the children of the gospel. Carefully read what I have written, I have written that the Quran does not attack I cannot address the acts of men.

I SAY, READ q9:29-30, 123; 98:6...

YOU SAID:
There is not time or space in a blog to explain what my lord Jesus has shown me, but I will sum it up by quoting Jesus from Matthew 5 verse 43 through 48 from the New Living Translation:

“You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven; for he gives his sunlight to both the evil and to the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that. But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

We will never win the Muslim to the Gospel if we approach them with hate in our hearts. Please study the Bible and read the Quran in prayer and guidance from the Holy Spirit. Then pray for our Muslim brothers, in God’s creation, that they too will enter the Kingdom-of-heaven.

I SAY: LOL

WHO HATES MUSLIMS? WE DO THIS BECAUSE OF LOVE, WE SHOW THEM THAT THEY ARE IN THE WRONG PATH.
we have to show them the mistakes of the Qur'an because it contradicts the Bible.

hugh watt said...

1-

Warren

Which Jesus one follows needs to be clear as Jesus Himself (and Paul) warned us:

Matt.24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Nothin'ButTheTruth gave some refs' further down which must be considered in the light of Matt.24:24 etc.

Which is the incorrect revelation from God? If
Christianity and Islam has its
"foundational belief in the (same) Creator God" how can that God make such an error regarding the passages Nothin'ButTheTruth cited? How do you reconcile these?

Sikhism has a belief in a creator but would you say it's the same God?

You want to know Islam's goal? The Muslim Brotherhood will tell you:

"Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way.
Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope. Allahu akbar!”

Not clear enough? Watch these:

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/3713.htm

http://www.radicalislam.org/news/egypts-morsi-prayer-group-calling-destruction-jews

About Hamas? Since the MB and Hamas hold to differing views within Islamic teaching what are the differences or similarities that bind them?

“Allah is its goal, the prophet is its model, the Koran is its constitution, jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is its most coveted desire” Hamas motto.

hugh watt said...

2-2

You say you are a Trinitarian and want to have a conversation with Muslims. Here's what Islam says about that:

Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists (Trinitarians included), invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them .. If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

Being Judge and Jury seems to be somewhat missing the point in all of this. When Muslims try to convert me I tell them what God says in His Book and what Allah says in his book. No judging. Just judging according to what's written.

Sahih Muslim (1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat."

These are the strong points Islam has to offer. This is what Muslims want the kafir to understand.

Lastly; you need to better understand what you're saying in the last part of your post. Read Matt.13 in full.

Search 4 Truth said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
TPaul said...

Thanks for your response Warren,
I now truly believe that you are a Christian, however Hi still have my reservations about your opinion about Mohammed.
I am amazed at the number of people who have responded to you. This only goes to show that we care. we think you are a bit misguided about Islam. You cannot love your enemies like the Lord did, by surrendering to their lies.

I believe everyone here will agree that it is not Muslims that we hate, but the evil cult of Islam, that enslaves. Muslims are the very first victims of Islam because they have surrendered their faculty to reason. No matter how learned they may be, they will still defend every single contradiction found in the Koran.

I pray that you may come to understand that even though he may have promoted the notion of one God, Mohammed never in his entire life had any fellowship with the true God, the father, because he denied the Son while blasphemeing the Spirit, the unforgivable sin acording to Jesus.

His corrupted lifestyle perfectly tells us who Mohammed's master really was.(...by their fruits ye shall know them)

Please do not be drawn to the lies of Islam, and please refrain from accepting this criminal as a messenger of the one true God.

Nothin'ButTheTruth said...

@ Search 4 truth,

you refers to me as nothing but trouble? why is that?
Did i say we hate muslims? u better go back and re-read what i wrote before calling me names.

Warren Searles said...

TPaul and others:

Thank you for the time you have taken to read my postings. You have given me a lot of information and guidance as I tread the waters of witnessing to my Muslim friends. I have to devote time to research and to my business. Therefore, I’ll be a reader not a writer for some time.

I will pray Our Lord’s richest blessings for all of you and trust that His return will be swift. Until then may the Love or Jesus shine in your hearts and on your faces too.

Warren

Nothin'ButTheTruth said...

@ Warren,

I missed this one:

I quote you:

"...Again I point to Matthew 19 verse 26 and end this response with Salvation is in God’s hands. Both the Muslim and the Christian agree to that point."

===Both Muslim and Christian agree?

NO DOUBT, Salvation is of the Lord. But today He has made that salvation available to everyone who would believe in Jesus as their sin sacrifice (John 3:16)which Islam strongly rejects...

Today, it is not up to Him anymore whether you are going to be saved or not, it's your own decision.

SALVATION IS NOW AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE WHO WOULD BELIEVE.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law, with the result that there is righteousness FOR EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES...10:9 That IF YOU CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH that Jesus is Lord AND BELIEVE in your heart that GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD, YOU WILL BE SAVED. 10:10 For with the heart one believes and thus has righteousness and with the mouth one confesses and thus has salvation.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ nothin but truth
'

I am really sorry. That was a mistake. I did not mean to do that. I totally apologize. Thats just a common phrase. When I went to type your name I must have just done that automatically. I sincerely apologize.
It's kind of funny but i didnt mean that at all. I am sorry. That is what some would call a brain fart. LOL! Please accept my apology.

bob said...

@Warren

No worries.

Nothin'ButTheTruth said...

@Warren,
It's hard for some people to admit their mistakes the way you did. I really appreciate that!
Remember, Muslims are allowed to lie in order to spread Islam (Q.3:28 and read the tafsirs on this). So don't merely listen to what they say.

@Search 4 Truth,
Apology accepted!