Tuesday, November 15, 2011

Jesus in Christianity & Islam

A debate between Mustafa al-Shakarji and Samuel Green. August 2011.


Samuel Green said...

Again, it was pleasure to debate with Mustafa.

Dk said...

Samuel, the guy you debated seem to be from the 1980's, using bullocks like Haggai, Deuteronomy, songs of Solomon.

How do you in all seriousness address these people?

Personally I was expecting A LOT BETTER (from both sides in general) for a debate taking place in 2011, not 1984 guys.

I just can't see how the preservation of the Qur'an and Bible was relevant to the topic at all. The crowd questions were total red herrings.

In general a disappointing debate, something you would expect "online", not in a proper format.

Samuel Green said...


Thanks for your reflections.

Haggai, Deuteronomy 18 and Song of Songs 5:16 are all standard verses that many Muslims are still using today. "How do you in all seriousness address these people?" The important thing is that we do address them and learn how to do this better.

The reason I bring up the topic of the preservation of the Qur'an is that in my presentation I refer to history and the Bible to prove my case. When a Muslim hears this they generally dismiss it because of their belief that the Qur'an is perfect and every other source corrupted. Therefore I must deal with this belief in order to challenge them to consider the evidence and not dismiss it as corrupted and irrelevant.

I disagree that the crowd questions were "red herrings". They reflect where the Christian and Muslim audiences are at. They demonstrate how they are engaging with the subject and this is very import for us to know. I also believe in giving the audience their chance to contribute.

Radical Moderate said...

The Thunder from Down Under strikes again.

mikeyh428 said...

I think you did a brilliant job Samuel. Some things needed to be elaborated on more fully, but with the time constraints it's nearly impossible. I noticed that Mustafa seems to think that Muhammed's knowledge of Christianity was supernatural, but that seem ridiculous given his travels in caravans and other exposure to stories from various peoples who easily could have related them. The lack of detail in the Quranic accounts is classic evidence of that which you pointed out early on. He also mentions the supernatural speaking of Jesus from the cradle. While that would be incredible in and of itself, it is also incredible that his towns people seem to have completely forgotten about it when they threw him out of the synagogue for making similar statements. Overall, I think that's one of the best debates I've heard you do.

mikeyh428 said...

I also meant to add, that though Jesus does not explicitly say I am God worship me, there are numerous examples where he implies it. The closest statements of explicitness are in John - see John 13:13 where he does acknowledge himself as Lord. I was also curious about the source of the sayings of Jesus that he claims Shi'ites believe in. Sunnis never seem to mention any such sources.

simple_truth said...

Hi, Samuel.

I really enjoyed your presentation. I thought it was very sound in argumentation while possessing both historical and theological problems for those who support Islam.

I really appreciate your demeanor in debating. You really make it difficult for the opposition to hate or reject you. Keep up the effort.

You were really effective in getting your points across. I hope to see more of your debates in the future.

Fifth Monarchy Man said...


You are my hero man.

I love your style. It strikes me as very Christ like. You pull no punches as far as the content of the message but you deliver it with the utmost reverence and respect.

I especially liked your response to Mustafa’s charge that it is somehow limiting for God to enter his creation. In effect you said “Who are you oh man to tell God what he can and can’t do” but somehow made it sound meek and mild.

Please keep up the good work. You truly have a gift


Annasopranna said...

If the Muslims have such a high regard for Miriam (Mary), a Jewess, why do they still refer to Jews as pigs?

Mustafa said something about Jesus birth 2000 years ago yet they believe Miriam lived 1500 years before that, in the time of Moses.

The Koran seems filled with contradictions.

Sam said...

I am very disappointed in this Muslim who parrots Ahmad Deedat's lies and mistakes. At the 1 hour, 49 minute mark he parrots Deedat's gross perversion of what the creed says, and even uses the same exact analogy that Deedat used to mock the Trinity! I challenge Mustafa to quote any creed which says that the Father is a Person, the Son is a Person, and the Holy Spirit is a Person, yet they are not 3 Persons but 1 Person. That is a lie since no creed says that. He needs to stop using Deedat since this will only end up causing him serious embarrassment.

Fifth Monarchy Man said...


I have a suggestion that might help you to quickly illustrate the differences between the Quran and God’s genuine revelation in debates like this.

Are you familiar with word clouds? They are cool visual representations of word frequency in a document you can find great examples here………..


Here is a list of the frequency of the top 4 significant words in the entire Bible from the site.
Notice that number four and five are words with messianic overtones and “son” is number four with many more occurrences than common words like judgment and sin

1. 7,484 Lord
2. 3,969 God
3. 2,485 one
4. 2,331 son
5. 2,314 king

When you compare one section of the Bible to another you find the word clouds to be quite similar.

I’d be willing to bet that a word cloud of the Quran would reveal a very different emphasis. With words like Jihad and punishment being prominent

Such an exercise might help you to illustrate the continuity of the law the prophets the psalms and the gospels and show how the Quran is the odd man out.


Ayesha Khan said...

First, Muslims do not call Jews "pigs" in the Holy Quran, because Muslims did not write the Holy Qur'an. It was written by God. The Arch angel Gabriel dictated it to Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him.

There is no confusion about Maryam being the mother of Jesus. There is no date listed in the Quran, because it is not written in a story format, except for the chapter on Yusuf.

Hazrat Miriam is the most highly respected Jewish lady. She had many trials over the birth of Jesus, but she bore it all patiently. In Islam, we say that "heaven is at the feet of the mother." That applies to a mother who teaches her children to pray to God.