Monday, October 10, 2011

Kim's Muslim Scholars on Forcing Women to Have Sex

Kim's favorite Muslim source isn't the Qur'an or the Hadith, but a website called "Islam: Question and Answer." Interestingly, the scholars of the site agree that a man may force his wives and slave girls to have sex with him.

Kim's scholars are asked: "Is it permissible for a man to force his wife or slave to have intercourse if she refuses?"

Here is their response:

Praise be to Allaah.
The woman does not have the right to refuse her husband, rather she must respond to his request every time he calls her, so long as that will not harm her or keep her from doing an obligatory duty.

Al-Bukhaari (3237) and Muslim (1436) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If a man calls his wife to his bed and she refuses, and he spends the night angry with her, the angels curse her until morning.”

If she refuses with no excuse, she is disobeying and is being defiant (nushooz), and he is no longer obliged to spend on her and clothe her.

The husband should admonish her and remind her of the punishment of Allaah, and forsake her in her bed. He also has the right to hit her, in a manner that does not cause injury. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next) refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allaah is Ever Most High, Most Great”

[al-Nisa’ 4:34]

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked what a husband should do if his wife refuses him when he asks for intimacy.

He replied:

It is not permissible for her to rebel against him or to withhold herself from him, rather if she refuses him and persists in doing so, he may hit her in a manner that does not cause injury, and she is not entitled to spending or a share of his time [in the case of plural marriage].” Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 32/279.

And he was asked about a man who has a wife who is rebellious and refuses intimacy – does she forfeit the right to maintenance and clothing, and what should she do?

He replied:

She forfeits her right to maintenance and clothing if she does not let him be intimate with her. He has the right to hit her if she persists in being defiant. It is not permissible for her to refuse intimacy if he asks for that, rather she is disobeying Allaah and His Messenger (by refusing). In al-Saheeh it says: “If a man calls his wife to his bed and she refuses, the One Who is in heaven will be angry with her until morning comes.”

From Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 32/278. The hadeeth was narrated by Muslim, 1736.

So the wife should be admonished first, and warned against defiance (nushooz) and of the anger of Allaah and the curse of the angels. If she does not respond, then the husband should forsake her in her bed, and if she does not respond to that, then he may hit her in a manner that does not cause injury. If none of these steps are effective, then he may stop spending on her maintenance and clothing, and he has the right to divorce her or to allow her to separate from him by khula’ in return for some financial settlement, such as giving up the mahr.

Similarly a slave woman does not have the right to refuse her master’s requests unless she has a valid excuse. If she does that she is being disobedient and he has the right to discipline her in whatever manner he thinks is appropriate and is allowed in sharee’ah.

And Allaah knows best.

So if a woman doesn't immediately respond to her husband's sexual demands, he may beat and starve her. Kim's scholars don't say much about how a man may discipline his slave girls, but slave girls have a lower status than wives and may be treated more harshly, so the punishment will be more severe than beating and starving her.

Kim has no problem with these rules, just as she has no problem with her (admitted) hatred for non-Muslims. Welcome to Islam.

***UPDATE***

Kim again contradicts the scholars she keeps quoting to us. She writes:

And I doubt that this even applies to slave girls since they aren't wives. They can simply say no and continue their lives. If they agree then it is permissible for a Muslim man to be with her.

According to Kim, a sex slave can "simply say no" and go on with her life. But what did Kim's scholars say?

Similarly a slave woman does not have the right to refuse her master’s requests unless she has a valid excuse. If she does that she is being disobedient and he has the right to discipline her in whatever manner he thinks is appropriate and is allowed in shari’ah.

So according to Kim's scholars, a slave girl has no right to refuse her master's request. But according to Kim, she can refuse all she wants.

I now have to ask Kim, "If you somehow know more than your scholars (and even more than Allah!), why do you keep quoting these scholars to us, when they know even less than you about Islam?"

9 comments:

donna60 said...

Don't Muslim men know how to seduce their wives? Because my husband was pretty good at it.

search 4 truth said...

Women are just property under Islam. Muslim and especially non Muslim. They can pretty much do as they please to non Muslim women. Because kaafr are less then human.

Qur'an (2:223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..."

Bukhari (62:81) - "The Prophet said: "'The stipulations most entitled to be abided by are those with which you are given the right to enjoy the (women's) private parts (i.e. the stipulations of the marriage contract).'"

Muslim (4:1039) - "A'isha said [to Muhammad]: 'You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses'"

Kim said...

"If she refuses with no excuse, she is disobeying and is being defiant (nushooz), and he is no longer obliged to spend on her and clothe her."

All of this is allowed to happen when the wife has no excuse for being with him. And if she consistently persists in doing so then she is going to be punished as his wife and eventually divorced.

Why keep a woman if she has no desire in being with you when you ask her to make love? And she keeps denying her husband that right. I believe it's a fair punishment. It would be arrogant of a wife to keep denying her husband this right.

Notice on what to do first if she refuses the first time.

"So the wife should be admonished first, and warned against defiance (nushooz) and of the anger of Allaah and the curse of the angels."

And if she has no excuse and doesn't respond:

"then the husband should forsake her in her bed"

Still wont respond?:

"then he may hit her in a manner that does not cause injury"

And if she really doesn't want to respond, as if this will happen often in reality, then

"If none of these steps are effective, then he may stop spending on her maintenance and clothing, and he has the right to divorce her or to allow her to separate from him by khula’ in return for some financial settlement, such as giving up the mahr."

So if the wife continuously refuses her husband, then he has the right to divorce her and stop spending on her.

All of this happens when she continuously refuses her husband and decides to ignore him WITHOUT an excuse.

And I doubt that this even applies to slave girls since they aren't wives. They can simply say no and continue their lives. If they agree then it is permissible for a Muslim man to be with her.

But how many female slaves do we see today owned by Muslim men?
Virtually none.
And also the Quran encourages us to free slaves for the greater reward and to treat them as nice as you treat your brother or sister.
This behavior to me is reasonable.
Of course to some of you born in different cultures, this may be different, but think about it.

Charis kai Eirene said...

There is much brokenness in human sexuality...across the board, not only in Islam. The worldly attitude towards sex demonstrates a power struggle among men and women, ways of manipulating each other for what people want. Generally, the brokenness is a variation of this: men use relationships to get sex and women use sex to feel loved.

The thing about Islam is that it heartily endorses this perverse attitude towards sex and is, in fact, worse: men manipulate women by withholding food, clothing, and care and even coercing them through violence to satisfy their sexual whims. This reinforces in the minds of women that their worthiness of love and care by their husbands is mostly dependent on how they respond to their husband's sexual desire. So if a woman is "not in the mood" or "doesn't feel like it" for whatever reason on a particular night, she would be much more inclined to ignore her own feelings/fatigue and engage in sex for fear of not being loved as much (at best) or being abused (at worst). Should a woman want to please her husband? Yes, but not disproportionately to how he desires to please her. Instead of a mutually appreciative sexual interaction, the woman is forced to use sex for what she wants--nay NEEDS-- because she knows that her husband will abuse her if he doesn't get what he wants!

taomeano said...

According to Kim's interpretation and understanding, forcing a woman to have intercourse is just having sex not rape. Either Kim is truly brainwashed by Islam or she is intellectually dishonest.

We christians on this blog will continue to pray for Kim to see the truth so she would leave the darkness of Islam and come to the light who is JESUS CHRIST.(John 8:12)

Kim said...

If you truly loved your husband, why would you say no for no reason if he wants to make love with you?
It's understandable if you are sick, having your monthly courses, tired, sleepy, hungry..whatever. But the hadiths tell us about women who are arrogant or extremely disobedient and have no good reason.

Call me whatever you can think of, but I strongly believe that this is fair punishment.

donna60 said...

Kim, when a woman doesn't respond to her husband in the bedroom, it is because of the way he treats her in the kitchen. Mistreating her even more is not the answer to a happy home.

Meanwhile, Arabs are enslaving Africans, not to mention the way they treat their Filipino domestic servants.

curly said...

"how many female slaves do we see today owned by Muslim men?
Virtually none. "

Kim is wrong. My friend was work at CIA. He told me Saudi Arabia have some sex slaves. I do not remember what country people selling to Saudi Arabia. I believe it is Sudan. Anyway, Sudanese Muslim people sell to Saudi Arabia for sex slave. Of course, Saudi Arabia people hid from the media.
I have one article about the sex slave. Muslim woman seek revival institution for sex slave. Here is a article:
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/9734/islam-sex-slavery
I applause Kuwait woman for couragely declare in public media.

curly said...

Kim,
"he Quran encourages us to free slaves for the greater reward and to treat them as nice as you treat your brother or sister"

Please show me where the sura in Quran? I do want to see it