Although I personally agree with a lot of what is being said in these videos, I'm not sure I agree entirely with the methodoligy being used.
If the objective is to show Muslims the truth I don't think the best way of approaching it is by grouping all Muslims in the same category as many of the speakers seem to be doing.
It's sort of like someone saying something bad about my parents. Even if I know my parents are wrong, only I am allowed to criticize them sharply. If you say something bad about them I am going to side with them regardless because I identify with them more than you. Now if instead you focus on why you are right instead of criticizing my parents, perhaps you will get me to change my point of view.
I think often times we as Christians spend far too much time trying to convert Muslims by criticizing them instead of demonstrating to them what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is all about. Christ sells himself, we don't need to go on the offensive, all we have to do is do what we have been taught.
When I look at Muslims today a small part of me is envious. Not because they possess the truth, but because of their dedication to their religion. Some of us Christians have eased up a little bit, many of us don't have this same dedication. We need to once again find this dedication and show the world what Christ is all about....this is done by example, not by going on the offensive...
According to Pamela Geller ,5,000 people showed up, while in reality only around 200-300 came to the event.
Geller said the NYPD and security at the rally told her about 5,000 demonstrators were there. But NYPD spokesman Sgt. Kevin Hayes said the police department’s policy is to not provide crowd estimates and that he could not confirm Geller’s number.
CNN iReporter Julio Ortiz-Teissonniere, who attended the rally and sent photos to CNN, said the number was closer to 200-300.
The height of irony probably came when two Christian Arabs who came to protest the mosque were mistaken for being Muslims, and became targets of their fellow protesters bigotry and harassment. I wonder if they will dispute whether Islamophobia really exists? From Mike Kelly’s article;
You've just lost a great deal of credibility. I was at the event. There were thousands of people there. Anyone who looks at the brief video I posted can see there were more than 200-300 people, and I was only recording one side of the street. There were people across the street and on two other corners.
i hope u will one day understand how lucky u r to have freedom unlike the rest of the people who live in the islamic world. and i also hope that u will gain a better understanding about Islam and quran etc. i agree with ur opinion regarding leading muslims to chirst through love but at the same time we all have to stand up for what is right and that is our freedom of speech and living. i could preech to u about the quran and its evilness but theres plenty of evidence for u to c what the real islam is. thanks to understanding
The news article mention Pam Geller said that the NYPD and security at the rally told her about 5,000 demonstrators were there. But NYPD spokesman Sgt. Kevin Hayes said the police department's policy is to not provide crowd estimates and that he could not confirm Geller's number.
Where as CNN iReporter Julio Ortiz-Teissonniere, who attended the rally and sent photos to CNN, said the number was closer to 200-300 while he was there for the first 45 minutes of the event.
Perhaps the numbers picked up later on, I don't know.
However contrary to Geller's claim that the police told her 5000 people attended, the police had made no such claim.
All of this is stated in the article that I link too from CNN.
The second link that I posted to is an news column from the Journalist Mike Kelly, a non-Muslim.
"At one point, a portion of the crowd menacingly surrounded two Egyptian men who were speaking Arabic and were thought to be Muslims.
“Go home,” several shouted from the crowd. “Get out,” others shouted.
In fact, the two men – Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry — were not Muslims at all. They turned out to be Egyptian Coptic Christians who work for a California-based Christian satellite TV station called “The Way.” Both said they had come to protest the mosque. “I’m a Christian,” Nassralla shouted to the crowd, his eyes bulging and beads of sweat rolling down his face.
But it was no use. The protesters had become so angry at what they thought were Muslims that New York City police officers had to rush in and pull Nassralla and El Masry to safety.
“I flew nine hours in an airplane to come here,” a frustrated Nassralla said afterward."
I have been searching around the 'Net regarding Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry. I was hoping to find other articles reporting on their experience, but from what I can gather so far, only one article has been written about it, and that one article has been republished in many other sites. Now I'm not sure about the authenticity of this report. Nevertheless, I think the ugly incident is shameful and no decent person celebrates its occurence.
Anyway, I was hoping to find a way to contact them. I found a Joseph Nassralla on Facebook. Hopefully, he is the right guy.
Hello Nazam: I certainly condemn what happened to the 2 Egyptian Christians.They were mistaken for Muslims.Hurting somebody for being of X religion is against the law.
But it is NOT "Islamophobia".Islam is not a PERSON.It is an ideology,ideas.Islam is not a people like the Jews.Judeophobia is against the law.Muslims over and over again use deception(I am talking in general,not in reference to you Nazam)trying to make ISLAM=MUSLIMS.
NO,NO.NO
Judeophobia=hatred of Jews(what you see among Muslims ALOT,over and over)
But ISLAM=MUSLIMS is deception,it is Islam=ideology(not the people who accept it).
The Western press should make that crystal clear,they seem so hopelessly stupid,considering they have UNIVERSITY education.
Statement from the Coptic man Nazam is referring to [*]
"I was a little frustrated initially for being identified as a Muslim infiltrator, but was glad that the issue was resolved later. My partner, Mr. El Masry, was even able to freely speak to the crowd after our identity was clarified. He explained how Christians are tortured, killed and oppressed in Egypt at the hands of Muslims who are encouraged to persecute Christians from the pulpit of mosques by Muslim preachers.
The reason I am writing to you, is because I am very disappointed in the mainstream media who used this minor incident to make a blanket generalization about all the attendees of the rally as Muslim haters.This kind of generalization was unfair to the good American people who legitimately stand against the building of a mosque next to ground zero and who are against Islamist agenda in the US. I am very well aware of such an agenda which has destroyed the Christian and Jewish existence in the Middle East."
Needless to say, since he has stated he is very disappointed in the mainstream media for using the incident to make blanket generalizations, we can also rest assured the Mr. Nassrallah is also disappointed in you Nazam, for using the media's published information to make the same generalizations.
I think his final remarks are quite revealing:
"We have come to America to seek refuge from the oppression of Islam and expose to the American public what kind of instigation we suffered at the hands of hateful Muslim preachers who incite the worshiping crowds to burn our homes, kidnap our girls and suppress our freedom to practice our religion. We will never allow media misrepresentation to stop us from our mission.
Nazam, If you check out this video and accompanying short article, and while watching the video you pause it here and there and you follow the simple, common-sense counting methods discussed in the article, you can see for yourself that the crowd was at a minimum 2000 people. Based on that video's evidence, I don't know how one could estimate over 3000. If there were more demonstrators elsewhere, not appearing as the camera pans back and forth, then the number could go higher. Also, if one considers that the demo went on for hours (how long was it?), then one can consider crowd turnover, people leaving and people coming. That means that even if the crowd in the video is 2500, the total number of people who came to the demo is higher. One would have to know the rate of turnover to estimate how much higher. I don't think this demo was 10,000 strong, I'd guess not even 5,000. But it certainly was not 200 or 300. I'd guess about 2500, based on a very rough count of the crowd in the video.
To Dave Wood and Team! God seriously bless you guys, for your efforts to try and making us aware of what's going on in the Islam world. I'm sure you are already aware of this page on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=119376404750172 and it has become a burden now and has been since joining the group. And, will use your information to make known to those who write things one there which shows their ignorance. I can hear Jesus say, "Good job good and faithful servant!" to you when the time should come. If you have a facebook page, would also like to be a friend and that to others involved in your ministry. Keep on keepin' on!
An email was sent to a NY1, a huge news company in New York City and this was what was entailed.
To Whom This Concerns Should you check out some pages on Facebook, you would notice that there are a few pages that refer to this topic. Here is the largest one and it is growing fairly rapidly: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=119376404750172&v=wall
Andrea Canola Garcia just recently wrote - Quote: "Are you serious??? Who are the people behind this? Who's paying who????? A response to her inquiry made me think about Mayor Bloomberg's motives as to Mayor Giuliani, seeing and believing, he was the one in office at the time of 9/11, he wouldn't allow such a thing to occur.
Wanting us to believe they are for the most part a peaceful religion, here now is another video to help prove differently: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxFzFIDbKpg For more information about this religion / "doctrine" here is another site: http://www.answeringmuslims.com/
After seeing all this, if you are one who feels perturbed about them building this beside which we refer to know as sacred ground, then please share it with the rest of New York and hopefully/ eventually other states, because I know that the populous would too disagree to have such a building constructed, especially since Muslims were the ones who devised this atrocity and what it truly represents if constructed. Thank you!
So, to you guys, you know your efforts / work is still being used to this day!
18 comments:
Although I personally agree with a lot of what is being said in these videos, I'm not sure I agree entirely with the methodoligy being used.
If the objective is to show Muslims the truth I don't think the best way of approaching it is by grouping all Muslims in the same category as many of the speakers seem to be doing.
It's sort of like someone saying something bad about my parents. Even if I know my parents are wrong, only I am allowed to criticize them sharply. If you say something bad about them I am going to side with them regardless because I identify with them more than you. Now if instead you focus on why you are right instead of criticizing my parents, perhaps you will get me to change my point of view.
I think often times we as Christians spend far too much time trying to convert Muslims by criticizing them instead of demonstrating to them what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is all about. Christ sells himself, we don't need to go on the offensive, all we have to do is do what we have been taught.
When I look at Muslims today a small part of me is envious. Not because they possess the truth, but because of their dedication to their religion. Some of us Christians have eased up a little bit, many of us don't have this same dedication. We need to once again find this dedication and show the world what Christ is all about....this is done by example, not by going on the offensive...
I love the last guy
"It does not say in the gospel or the ten commandments "Thous shall be stupid"
Theodoris, listen,
They are dealing with Islam as an IDEOLOGY - All Muslims are associated with that ideology - like it or not.
These people know what they are doing. Let them do their jobs, please.
According to Pamela Geller ,5,000 people showed up, while in reality only around 200-300 came to the event.
Geller said the NYPD and security at the rally told her about 5,000 demonstrators were there. But NYPD spokesman Sgt. Kevin Hayes said the police department’s policy is to not provide crowd estimates and that he could not confirm Geller’s number.
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/06/06/new.york.ground.zero.mosque/?hpt=T3&imw=Y
CNN iReporter Julio Ortiz-Teissonniere, who attended the rally and sent photos to CNN, said the number was closer to 200-300.
The height of irony probably came when two Christian Arabs who came to protest the mosque were mistaken for being Muslims, and became targets of their fellow protesters bigotry and harassment. I wonder if they will dispute whether Islamophobia really exists? From Mike Kelly’s article;
http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinions/kelly/95748769_On_this_ground__zero_tolerance.html?c=y&page=1
I guess the lesson here is don’t speak Arabic or look foreign at an Islamophobic protest or you might get harmed.
Nazam,
You've just lost a great deal of credibility. I was at the event. There were thousands of people there. Anyone who looks at the brief video I posted can see there were more than 200-300 people, and I was only recording one side of the street. There were people across the street and on two other corners.
This is just deception on the part of Muslims.
theodoris
i hope u will one day understand how lucky u r to have freedom unlike the rest of the people who live in the islamic world. and i also hope that u will gain a better understanding about Islam and quran etc. i agree with ur opinion regarding leading muslims to chirst through love but at the same time we all have to stand up for what is right and that is our freedom of speech and living. i could preech to u about the quran and its evilness but theres plenty of evidence for u to c what the real islam is. thanks to understanding
nazam
man u really need to see the world through a non muslims eyes.
Robert Spencer said "Are you tired of being lied to?" I answer YES! So Nazam stop lying to us.
Theodoris:
They were not there to preach the gospel! If BP are protested against i would not expect a gospel message when the issue is to stop the leak.
mkvine said: "So Nazam stop lying to us."
I don't think Nazam is lying to us. I think he just goes to some horribly unreliable sources of information.
David,
You said "this is deception on the part of the Muslims".
But I was quoting from a non-Muslim source i.e. CNN. Don't shoot the messenger!
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/06/06/new.york.ground.zero.mosque/?hpt=T3&imw=Y
The news article mention Pam Geller
said that the NYPD and security at the rally told her about 5,000 demonstrators were there. But NYPD spokesman Sgt. Kevin Hayes said the police department's policy is to not provide crowd estimates and that he could not confirm Geller's number.
Where as CNN iReporter Julio Ortiz-Teissonniere, who attended the rally and sent photos to CNN, said the number was closer to 200-300 while he was there for the first 45 minutes of the event.
Perhaps the numbers picked up later on, I don't know.
However contrary to Geller's claim that the police told her 5000 people attended, the police had made no such claim.
All of this is stated in the article that I link too from CNN.
The second link that I posted to is an news column from the Journalist Mike Kelly, a non-Muslim.
http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinions/kelly/95748769_On_this_ground__zero_tolerance.html?c=y&page=1
He states two Christian Arabs who came to protest were mistaken for being Muslims, and became targets of their fellow protesters hatred.
Below are some quotes from his column regarding the two Arab Christians;
http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinions/kelly/95748769_On_this_ground__zero_tolerance.html?c=y&page=2
"At one point, a portion of the crowd menacingly surrounded two Egyptian men who were speaking Arabic and were thought to be Muslims.
“Go home,” several shouted from the crowd.
“Get out,” others shouted.
In fact, the two men – Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry — were not Muslims at all. They turned out to be Egyptian Coptic Christians who work for a California-based Christian satellite TV station called “The Way.” Both said they had come to protest the mosque.
“I’m a Christian,” Nassralla shouted to the crowd, his eyes bulging and beads of sweat rolling down his face.
But it was no use. The protesters had become so angry at what they thought were Muslims that New York City police officers had to rush in and pull Nassralla and El Masry to safety.
“I flew nine hours in an airplane to come here,” a frustrated Nassralla said afterward."
Hello, Nazam.
I have been searching around the 'Net regarding Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry. I was hoping to find other articles reporting on their experience, but from what I can gather so far, only one article has been written about it, and that one article has been republished in many other sites. Now I'm not sure about the authenticity of this report. Nevertheless, I think the ugly incident is shameful and no decent person celebrates its occurence.
Anyway, I was hoping to find a way to contact them. I found a Joseph Nassralla on Facebook. Hopefully, he is the right guy.
Varumi,
Both of them were from an Arab Christian TV station called "The Way" based in California, if that is any help?
Hello Nazam:
I certainly condemn what happened to the 2 Egyptian Christians.They were mistaken for Muslims.Hurting somebody for being of X religion is against the law.
But it is NOT "Islamophobia".Islam is not a PERSON.It is an ideology,ideas.Islam is not a people like the Jews.Judeophobia is against the law.Muslims over and over again use deception(I am talking in general,not in reference to you Nazam)trying to make ISLAM=MUSLIMS.
NO,NO.NO
Judeophobia=hatred of Jews(what you see among Muslims ALOT,over and over)
But ISLAM=MUSLIMS is deception,it is Islam=ideology(not the people who accept it).
The Western press should make that crystal clear,they seem so hopelessly stupid,considering they have UNIVERSITY education.
Statement from the Coptic man Nazam is referring to [*]
"I was a little frustrated initially for being identified as a Muslim infiltrator, but was glad that the issue was resolved later. My partner, Mr. El Masry, was even able to freely speak to the crowd after our identity was clarified. He explained how Christians are tortured, killed and oppressed in Egypt at the hands of Muslims who are encouraged to persecute Christians from the pulpit of mosques by Muslim preachers.
The reason I am writing to you, is because I am very disappointed in the mainstream media who used this minor incident to make a blanket generalization about all the attendees of the rally as Muslim haters.This kind of generalization was unfair to the good American people who legitimately stand against the building of a mosque next to ground zero and who are against Islamist agenda in the US. I am very well aware of such an agenda which has destroyed the Christian and Jewish existence in the Middle East."
Needless to say, since he has stated he is very disappointed in the mainstream media for using the incident to make blanket generalizations, we can also rest assured the Mr. Nassrallah is also disappointed in you Nazam, for using the media's published information to make the same generalizations.
I think his final remarks are quite revealing:
"We have come to America to seek refuge from the oppression of Islam and expose to the American public what kind of instigation we suffered at the hands of hateful Muslim preachers who incite the worshiping crowds to burn our homes, kidnap our girls and suppress our freedom to practice our religion. We will never allow media misrepresentation to stop us from our mission.
Yours truly,
Joseph Nassralla"
Nazam,
If you check out this video and accompanying short article, and while watching the video you pause it here and there and you follow the simple, common-sense counting methods discussed in the article, you can see for yourself that the crowd was at a minimum 2000 people. Based on that video's evidence, I don't know how one could estimate over 3000. If there were more demonstrators elsewhere, not appearing as the camera pans back and forth, then the number could go higher. Also, if one considers that the demo went on for hours (how long was it?), then one can consider crowd turnover, people leaving and people coming. That means that even if the crowd in the video is 2500, the total number of people who came to the demo is higher. One would have to know the rate of turnover to estimate how much higher. I don't think this demo was 10,000 strong, I'd guess not even 5,000. But it certainly was not 200 or 300. I'd guess about 2500, based on a very rough count of the crowd in the video.
To Dave Wood and Team! God seriously bless you guys, for your efforts to try and making us aware of what's going on in the Islam world.
I'm sure you are already aware of this page on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=119376404750172 and it has become a burden now and has been since joining the group. And, will use your information to make known to those who write things one there which shows their ignorance.
I can hear Jesus say, "Good job good and faithful servant!" to you when the time should come. If you have a facebook page, would also like to be a friend and that to others involved in your ministry.
Keep on keepin' on!
An email was sent to a NY1, a huge news company in New York City and this was what was entailed.
To Whom This Concerns
Should you check out some pages on Facebook, you would notice that there are a few pages that refer to this topic. Here is the largest one and it is growing fairly rapidly:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=119376404750172&v=wall
Andrea Canola Garcia just recently wrote - Quote: "Are you serious??? Who are the people behind this? Who's paying who?????
A response to her inquiry made me think about Mayor Bloomberg's motives as to Mayor Giuliani, seeing and believing, he was the one in office at the time of 9/11, he wouldn't allow such a thing to occur.
Wanting us to believe they are for the most part a peaceful religion, here now is another video to help prove differently:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxFzFIDbKpg
For more information about this religion / "doctrine" here is another site:
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/
After seeing all this, if you are one who feels perturbed about them building this beside which we refer to know as sacred ground, then please share it with the rest of New York and hopefully/ eventually other states, because I know that the populous would too disagree to have such a building constructed, especially since Muslims were the ones who devised this atrocity and what it truly represents if constructed.
Thank you!
So, to you guys, you know your efforts / work is still being used to this day!
Post a Comment