Monday, May 3, 2010

Revolution Muslim in Times Square

Just a few hours before an explosive device failed to detonate, Revolution Muslim was preaching in Times Square. Where were all the peaceful, tolerant Muslims who disagree with them? (RM even won a convert.)



I wish these guys would quit playing hide and seek (showing up unannounced and then disappearing afterwards). I'd really, really like some Qur'an lessons. How about posting their Dawah location ahead of time? (And if anyone ever sees them starting their Dawah, send me a quick email. I might be able to get there before they finish.)

Come out, come out wherever you are!

45 comments:

The Berean Search said...

David,

With your permission I would like to post a text exchange I had on youtube with Sidiq Abdul Malik - the last speaker in that video - in order to demonstrate that while he projects confidence in his verbal rhetoric he completely lacks substance in his arguments. The discussion took place on the page of a Muslim that was in the process of leaving Islam and is now a Christian. It's a discussion on the preservation of the Quran and I sourced much of my argumentation from materials available on your blog.

It's kind of lengthy and that's why I'm asking first.

Asadullah Yusuf Hamza said...

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem.
May Allah (All-Mighty God) strengthen, guide, and bless Saddiq, Younis, and the rest of the brothers at RM. Ameen.

Nazam said...

The vast majority of Muslim Americans despise Revolution Muslim and their hate-filled ideology. The New York mosque the group frequented banned them from setting foot inside the premises, forcing them to preach on the street corner. Many Muslim Americans question whether Revolution Muslim are real Muslims, and instead hold them to be agent provocateurs who wish to smear Islam.


Irahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said, “a strong suspicion [in the Muslim American community] that they’re merely a setup to make Muslims and Islam look bad. ”

The fact is that the group is made up of no more than 5-10 members.

The fact that the Muslim American community thinks that they may be agent provocateurs (irrespective of whether its true or not) speaks volumes about how little these guys represent the community overall.

hugh watt said...

There it is again. The man said 'Palestine' is a "Muslim land!" Have i missed something? I asked Yusuf about this a little while ago, he didn't say what RM and many Muslims say, "Palestine is Muslim land. The Jews are occupiers." These people don't know the Quran; or is this more 'Outwitting?'

S:5.20. Remember Moses said
To his people: "O my People!
Call in remembrance the favour
Of God unto you, when He
Produced prophets among you,
Made you kings, and gave
You what He had not given
To any other among the peoples.

21. "O my people! enter
The holy land which
God hath assigned unto you,
And turn not back
Ignominiously, for then
Will ye be overthrown,
To your own ruin."

S:10.93. We settled the Children
Of Israel in a beautiful
Dwelling-place, and provided
For them sustenance of the best:
It was after knowledge had been
Granted to them, that they
Fell into schisms. Verily
God will judge between them
As to the schisms amongst them,
On the Day of Judgment.

94. If thou wert in doubt
As to what We have revealed
Unto thee, then ask those
Who have been reading
The Book from before thee:
The Truth hath indeed come
To thee from thy Lord:
So be in no wise
Of those in doubt.

S:17.101-104. To Moses We did give
Nine Clear Signs:
Ask the Children of Israel:
When he came to them,
Pharaoh said to him:
"O Moses! I consider thee,

Indeed, to have been
Worked upon by sorcery!

102. Moses said, "Thou knowest
Well that these things
Have been sent down by none
But the Lord of the heavens
And the earth as eye-opening
Evidence: and I consider thee
Indeed, O Pharaoh, to be
One doomed to destruction!"

103. So he resolved to remove them
From the face of the earth:
But We did drown him
And all who were with him.

104. And We said thereafter
To the Children of Israel,
"Dwell securely in the land
(Of promise)": but when
The second of the warnings came
To pass, We gathered you
Together in a mingled crowd."

Yusuf, Yahya, these are other ayats Muslims go quiet on when asked about.

minoria said...

Hello Nazam:
I am glad most Muslims in the West you know are against them.I hope one day Al-Jazeera agrees with you and fires QARADAWI,who agrees with Revolution Muslim.

THE LATEST BOOK

Breathless news.I have just found out about a recent book that is a BESTSELLER in GERMANY.

It is by SABATINA JAMES(false name) a Pakistani girl who became a Christian,who is an AUSTRIAN CITIZEN,and has been in hiding for years since her own family has sentenced her to death.

MY FIGHT FOR FAITH AND FREEDOM

It is the name of the book in German.
The cover even has her face(very pretty)and her fate is that alot of ex-Muslims:
http://www.phoenixbooksandaudio.com/books/detail/my_fight_for_faith_and_freedom/

SAM said...

yusuf hamza

sorry to bust ur bubble but theres only 1 true mighty God and his name is JESUS. and them RM dont have any clue wut they r talking about. and u my friend should open ur eyes and c wut the true nature of Islam is.

i ask u this hamza. Y ARENT U PLANTING BOMBS OR JOINING A TERRORIST GROUP? THE RADICALS R DOING IT. Y ARENT U? UR COMMANDED TO TERRORIZE THE NON MUSLIMS. MOHAMMAD HIMSELF DID IT. I WANT TO KNW Y DONT U?

Asadullah Yusuf Hamza said...

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem.

Mr. Wood,

Why not debate them on the current political affairs they are speaking of?

minoria said...

Here is a video with an interview of SABATINA JAMES,the ex-Muslim girl,now Christian,who is hiding in Germany.

She speaks English also.Not surprising,since 33% of Europe's 500 million people speak it,some 160 million,it's the lingua franca there:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcxq1v_sabatina-james-le-livre-choc-en-fra_news

Adam said...

Dear Brother David,

Who is this Yahya Snow and why is he so afraid of Christian Apologist.

I wonder these muhamMADians Aka Kaaba worshipers are so afraid to debate Christian in Public, Imagine the Fate other Kaaba worshipers when they face Christ.

Adam

Nazam said...

Robert or Minoria (I hope you don't mind me calling you by you first name)

Do you mind quoting me Yusuf Qardawi and your source as to Qardawi supporting specifically the Muslims Revolution group as this is news to me and I doubt very much that it's true.

SAM said...

OH YES AND ANOTHER THING


Y IS IT THAT WHEN SOMEONE WANTS TO LEAVE ISLAM THEY R CONSIDERED TO BE DEAD MAN WALKING? WOW TALK ABOUT FREEDOM HAVING TO WATCH UR OWN BACK FOR THE REST OF UR LIFE UNLESS UR IN ANOTHER COUNTRY FAR FAR AWAY. 1 OF MANY NONSENCE THINGS HAVING TO DO WITH QURAN AND ISLAM.

Sepher Shalom said...

Nazam, I don't think anyone was saying Qaradawi has issued a public statement in support of Revolution Muslim. I think the point of the comment was that they share ideological and theological common ground (but I will let the comment posters clear up what they meant, I can't speak in their stead).

minoria said...

Hello Nazam:

Here is the info about QARADAWI:

1.He says HITLER's holocaust was a punishment by Allah on the Jews:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HStliOnVl6Q

2.He says sucide bombers in Israel and in Iraq are OK to him(in an interview with a UK journalist)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvXCJH_li08

minoria said...

Hello Nazam:
Rereading your comment I see you have misunderstood me,when I said "he agrees with RM" I meant his views are the same as theirs,not that he knows of them.Sorry for being unclear.

ned said...

I think the guy changing T shirt in surveillance video was signaling to some one after what was required of him to accomplish. He should be caught and inquired for the reason to change T shirt and especially when he very openly and actually faced the opposite direction of where he headed.
All in all very cowardly and again shows how someone can be so ruthless to innocent lives. These people who ever are they and whatever agenda they have is satan’s army and there should be no doubt in any mind about it.
Also I would comment on the short sightedness of the west including US in recognizing and planning for the impacts of mass immigration that went on for years.
I support profiling the terror suspects. whoever they are, without political correctness: if someone is serious in taking the challenge against the terrorists.

ned said...

Afetr having watched the clip i fell so ashmed that these people who offer nothing but death to non muslim minorities in muslim countries, so openly challenge the Govt. of US and people. Theu were indirectly harrassing people that what is happeing in iraq can happen here. US govt. should profile these people who gathered there as being source of nuisance, spreading unrest, harrassment and making threats to public and Govt.
What if an american tries the same hate speech openly in iraq, iran, pakistan...: he or she will be gone within first few minutes, tackeled by public or govt. there.
What is US govt. waiting for; another 9/11?
These guys are testing the public and Govt. response and soon they will come out with some big rally.
quran already tells them to subdue or fight and muslims are onto it.

Asadullah Yusuf Hamza said...

Bismillahir Rahanir Raheem.

SAM said...

"sorry to bust ur bubble but theres only 1 true mighty God and his name is JESUS."

The Noble Qur'an [5:72]
They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.

The Noble Qur'an [5:17]
In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things."

mkvine said...

Asadullah,

Can you ask Younis that instead of going to street corners and complaining about what America does, why doesn't he actually DO something about it? I'm getting very annoyed with him yappin' his mouth.

Asadullah Yusuf Hamza said...

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem.

SAM said...

"u my friend should open ur eyes and c wut the true nature of Islam is."

Allah said...

The Noble Qur'an [3:19]
The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.

SAM said...

"i ask u this hamza. Y ARENT U PLANTING BOMBS OR JOINING A TERRORIST GROUP? THE RADICALS R DOING IT. Y ARENT U? UR COMMANDED TO TERRORIZE THE NON MUSLIMS. MOHAMMAD HIMSELF DID IT. I WANT TO KNW Y DONT U?"

ALLAH said...

The Noble Qur'an [6:151]
Say: "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from": Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not nigh to shameful deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.

Anthony Rogers said...

Asadullah,

Surely you know the Muslim Allah has no authority around here. Quoting passages from the Qur'an that contradict what the Bible says only demonstrates to us why the Qur'an is not from the same God, is not a confirmation of what came before it, and should be rejected by everyone.

Odo said...

I read something interesting last night,

The Jews and Christians are spoken of over fifty times as "The people possessing the Book, Scripture or Gospel, The people of the Admonition or Revelation." The reason for the large amount of Jewish material in the Quran becomes very manifest when we consider that it was during the sixth to the tenth years of his [Muhammad’s] ministry [615-619] that these references are most frequent: indeed the Suras of this period consist almost entirely of Scripture stories and are different not only in their subject matter, but also in their rhetorical form. No longer do they consist of those short ecstatic utterances which are so characteristic of the earlier Suras, but they betray much careful study. A large amount of time must have been required to digest and assimilate so much biblical material and to work it up into such elaborate and rhythmical sentences. This was the time when Muhammad’s hopes for help from Jewish quarters were most sanguine. But, disappointed by their rejection of him, for few Jews ever became his faithful followers, he turned upon them with threats and rebukes, and in a few years even drove them from the land by slaughter and exile. The disappearance of the Jews was followed by a corresponding change in the material of the Quran. This fact, among many others, gives unmistakable evidence that the Quran was not systematically written, but grew up out of the circumstances and feelings of the day, consequently after Muhammad lost all hope of gaining the Jews to Islam, that constant repetition of Bible story and rabbinical legend which was so common for several years gradually ceased [Because Muhammad started preaching against the Jews]. Emphasis and brackets mine.

The Biblical Element in the Qur’an, D. Shepardson, Jr., The Old and New Testament Student, vol. 10, no. 4, The University of Chicago Press (Apr. 1890), pp. 210,-211 Source: http://www.jstor.org/stable/1595370

minoria said...

THE BEST ARGUMENTS THAT AISHA WAS 16 WHEN SHE CONSUMMATED HER MARRIAGE

Just now ALI SINA of faithfreedom.org has written an article called "Questions about Aisha's Age".He at the end has one of David's videos about Aisha.

The article(which I suggest all read)argues against the Muslim arguments that Aisha was 16 when she consummated her marriage.

FORM YOUR OWN OPINION

Now I am not an expert on the Muslim counter-argument but Ali Sina gives the arguments why HE rejects them,and they seem good.Check out his arguments against the Muslim counter-arguments to form your own opinion.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/wordpress/?p=10066

Theodoris said...

RM tries to win converts by appealing to people's emotional side without providing any facts as to why people should convert to Islam.

Case in point - they mention several attrocities commitied by the US government and its forces.

The footage of the helicopter murdering people in Iraq is absolutely horrible and those responsible should be brought to justice. Believe me, I am the FIRST person to criticize American foreign policy, and I belive ANY Christian who fully endorses everything that the US government does is NOT following the commandments of our Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ.

The problem that I have with RM is that they mention a number of unrelated facts, and then they try and sell you Islam. It's like me standing at a corner in NY, mentioning that 1+1=2, and telling everyone to join Christianity.

Muslims, please recognize that the government in the United States is NOT a hardline Christian government and they are NOT following the teachings of Jesus Christ whenever they commit these attrocities. You cannot therefore use any of this as evidence for people to convert to Islam any more than I can use it as evidence for people to convert to Christianity.

May the peace of the Lord be with all of you.

Asadullah Yusuf Hamza said...

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem.

@ The Berean Search:

Be Honest. Sadiq Abdul Malik had a post exchange with you and you backed down after he demonstrated the weakness of your arguments.

Now you want to beat a dead horse by asking Mr. Wood's 'permission' to post a text exchange with him?

Why not cut to the chase and continue your dialog with him? Why do you (and those like yourself) keep avoiding him?

Asadullah Yusuf Hamza said...

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem.

Mr. Wood,

The rest of the video is on RM's website. Do you plan on posting it? If so, are you also planning on either writing or posting a video response to the subject matter being discussed by brothers Younus and Sadiq? Thank You.

Sincerely, Yusuf

The Berean Search said...

"Be Honest. Sadiq Abdul Malik had a post exchange with you and you backed down after he demonstrated the weakness of your arguments."

I don't recall you being there Mr. Hamza. If you were there do you care to share what your youtube channel is? What actually happened is that someone properly challenged Sadiq's claims and demonstrated his error. I took the time and great effort to find a way to read through Sadiq's horrendous grammar, awful spelling, and imprudent use of capitalization so that I could refute what he said. After holding him to account and preventing him from going off topic as he usually does in youtube text exchanges Sadiq [aka TheFateofFaith] was absent from the channel comments for 2 days and when he returned he wisely moved to another topic. I won't speculate that this was because of me, but it certainly doesn't support your version of the events [which at this time it's unclear if you even saw].

"Now you want to beat a dead horse by asking Mr. Wood's 'permission' to post a text exchange with him?"

If by "beating a dead horse" you mean demonstrating Sadiq's terrible arguments that he chose to put into the public sphere, then yes.

"Why not cut to the chase and continue your dialog with him?"

If I choose to interact with Sadiq it certainly won't be in text form. I can barely read what the man writes.

"Why do you (and those like yourself) keep avoiding him?"

What do you mean Mr. Hamza? Do I perhaps have a youtube stalker now? Are you somehow following my activities with such intent that you know every interaction I've had with Sadiq? I hope not. You should have better things to do with your time. Sadiq knows where to find me.

The Berean Search said...

Below is an examples of Sadiq's text comments lest anyone assume I'm attempting to insult him by saying he is hard to read:

"TheFateofFaith
to chanuka the wars of the jews as cronicled by josifus and the book of the macabees the REJECTION OF THE SEPTUAGENT that became the core book of the hellinsed jews and the base book of pagan christianity on up past jesus 450 years later to the finnishing of what would become the ABOMINATION AND REJECTION OF GOD THAT CHRISTIANITY IS TODAY.statements from christian pagan defenders and fathers of the church to secular and christian scholers to the corrupted bible itself , all testifying to the abject and out right POLITHEISTIC PAGAN CULT that so called christianity is. this child mb will block me me 4 the same reason mr.g deleated my distruction of his ibrahim luqa vid.4 the same reason that shamoun or the sponser of his vid deleated my distruction the islamic delemma vid.4 the same reason david wood spent a full 20 minutes commiting the tu quoke fallacy in my vary first debate about the CRUCI=FICTION .4"


All the capitalization and spelling errors are original to Sadiq. As you can see, this gentleman's comments are laborious to decipher and interact with. Also notice that he has accused David or Nabeel of deleting his comments on youtube, and claimed David spent 20 minutes committing the "tu quoke" [sic] fallacy. The "Islamic Dilemma" video is hosted on the yahya2006 channel.

Lest anyone think I cherry picked an unfortunate example [these are fairly legible examples], here is another:

"TheFateofFaith
the new test.does NOT CONTAIN A DEVELOPED DOTERIN OF TRINITY.NEW INTERNATIONAL.DICTIONARYOF N.T THEOLOGY VOL .P.84.as far as n.t. is concerned one does NOT FIND IN it AN ACTUAL docterin of trinity .BERNARD LOHSE.- IN SHORT HISTORY OF CHRISTIAN DOCTERIN. P.38.THE BIBLE LACKS the express declaration that the FATHER the SON and the holy spirit are of equal essence. U-HUH WHAT ELSE IS NEW. K. BARTH, NEW INTERNATIONAL DICTIONARY OF N.T THEOLOGY. JUST A COUPLE QUOTES by the greek PHILOSOPHY inculcated fathers and stuanch defenders of your cult. - justin MARTYER who believed that christianity and PAGAN GREEK PHILOSOPHY WERE RELATED,insisted that christ came from GOD FROM WHO? GOD. he did NOT IDENTIFY HIM WITH GOD. JUSTINS GOD WAS A TRANSANDENTAL bieing who could not possibly come into contact with the world of men and things.this is substantiated by noted christian scholer McGIFFERT. NOTE;"


Along with the obvious difficulty in reading the man his usual youtube text activities consist of posting bizarre irrelevant questions and then saying over and over, "You never answer my questions!" I guess his rhetoric has appeal for certain individuals when he is giving dawah on the streets. I don't see how anyone could be impressed by the text arguments he produces. This is all I was seeking to demonstrate. I'm not sure why reproduction of public comments would get you so upset Mr. Hamza.

The Berean Search said...

Mr. Hamza,

To demonstrate my point further, consider the following exchange:


"TheBereanSearch
[Quoting] TheFateofFaith- "QUESTION WHAT IS THE CONNECTION BETWEEN OMONIA AND YOUR PAGAN CONSEPT OF GRACE"

This is not actually a question Sadiq. It is an *assertion* disguised as a question. You are presupposing that there is a connection, and expecting us to answer based on your presupposition. I reject your presupposition outright. In light of this, the onus is on you to prove your presupposition. Once you do this, I will try to interact with your claims.

[Quoting]"give verse in quran that commend throwing babys against rocks"

I don't recall claiming there was such a verse, nor is this relevant to the points we are raising. Please try to keep on topic. It will help for an honest and useful discussion."
[Brackets added for clarification]

This is what I received in response:

"
TheFateofFaith
YOU HAVE DONE ABSOLUTLY NOTHING PROOVEN NOTHING IT IS YOU THAT MADE THE CHARGES AGAINST ISLAM AND TO DARE BRING THE FALLACY OF WHICH THIS HOLE THING GOT STARTED THAT WAS USED BY YOU IS TRULLY DESPERATE. U MBI AND MRG TOGETHER HAVE AMOUNTED TO NOTHING I PLAYED ALONG WITH YOUR DIVERSIONARY TACTIC WHICH ITSELF WAS AN ACT OF THE DEBATE FALLACY TO GET AWAY FROM MY QUESTIONS AND ACUSATIONS OF WHICH STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED. REMEMBER THE COMPARISON OF MOSES AND MUHAMMAD U RESPONDED 2 U GOT KILLED THERE IN MY RESPONCE THIS ENCOUNTER WAS 4 ALL INTENTS AND POUPOSES OVER THEN READ IT AGAIN AND SEE WHAT I MEAN NEXT TIME CALL THE MARINES BACK FROM IRAQ AND AFGANISTAN SO THAT AT LEAST U HAVE A FIGHTING CHANCE GOOD NIGHT"


I haven't the foggiest idea what Moses/Muhammad comparison he is referring to, but I think it's clear there is no substance in this man's rhetoric. My apologies for the ocular discomfort all those capital letter may have caused. Also, my apologies to David if these posts are too far off topic. When I saw Sadiq speaking in the video you posted I just wanted to make people aware of the type of logic that he actually brings to the table.

Thanks for bearing with me.

The Berean Search said...

It appears that someone (possibly Mr. Hamza?) informed Sadiq that I posted a couple of his comments on this blog and he has now accused me of misrepresenting him and posting comments not addressed to me. First, one of the comments I posted was addressed to me. Second, the comments I posted above are not the one's I was referring to in my first post on this thread. I was waiting for an “OK” to post those because of the number of posts it would take up on the blog. I am attempting to be considerate of the operators and readers. Since my posting of the quoted youtube comments seems to be getting approved, and Sadiq has called my honesty into question, I will now post the full exchange we had on the youtube channel JANNISARI4ISLAM. This channel no longer exists as it's operator has, by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, become a Christian. Sadiq has also stated that I am unfairly criticizing his poor spelling and grammar. It is not my intention to mock him, but it is simply a fact that needs to be communicated when I mention our past interactions because I sometimes have a very hard time following the content of what he is saying based on his non-orthodox application of the standards of the English language and his frequent use of capitalization. Following is our exchange. All typographical errors are original to the typist (mine included). The person posting the comment has been placed in brackets. I have placed { } with some added comments at one point to attempt to provide context to the flow of the discussion since there were other commenters on the page whose text I did not save. Sadiq knows about this thread and I invite him to type a response. I'm sure the blog operators would welcome it as long as he acts respectfully.

To preface the exchange, I was first directing my comments to another Muslim regarding his claims against the Bible in light of the evidence against the Quran found in authentic Islamic traditions. Once Sadiq interjected himself into the exchange, my intentions were not to engage or refute Sadiq on every single point he made, but rather to make it clear that since he interjected himself in the discussion he should address the points I was making, rather than derail the dialogue off onto some other topic. If at times my representation of the same sources and information appear redundant, it is because of the youtube channel comments format in which comments quickly become buried on previous pages. I was reposting to attempt to keep the unanswered points easily viewable for both the operator of the page and any onlookers. Here is the text exchange:

[TheBereanSearch] Part 1 - My information comes from Islamic sources, and your sources show your Quran was a big mess from the start. Compare these narrations:

"That is a man I still love, as I heard the Prophet (saw) saying, 'Learn the recitation of the Qur'an from four: from Abdullah bin Mas'ud - he started with him - Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa, Mu'adh bin Jabal and Ubai bin Ka'b". (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 5, p.96)

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: 'Umar said, Ubai was the best of us in the recitation (of the Qur'an) yet we leave some of what he recites.' Ubai says, "I have taken it from the mouth of Allah's Apostle and will not leave for anything whatever." (Sahih Bukhari, Vol 6, #527)

The Berean Search said...

{At this point Sadiq began commenting. It is not clear if his first comments were directed at me in particular, or were just comments he was making of Christians in general and perhaps based on what I was posting. Sadiq frequently does not mark who he is addressing.}

[TheFateofFaith] THE LEVEL OF DESPERATE IGNORENCE USED BY CHRISTIANS IS ALMOST amasing exsept 4 the fact that desperate ignorence is the only thing that they are left with as a mode of defence 4 there cult.and of course throw in a more than healthy portion of to quokey fallacy cooked in the pot of tacticle change of subject to BOOT.when u need to resort to expunged biblicle verses it becomes truly sad.maybe they should resort to another expunged biblicle verses, such as the last 8 or 9 verses of the finnal chapter of mk . you know the ones about drinking poison what is the level of ignorent commitment to those. the christian is in a desperate state they have no understanding of arabic and do not understand the histort or methodology of hadith.no matter how much information u bring out these people are in a state of abject loss .the only thing they know is that the bible there cult there entire belief system can not be defended

[TheFateofFaith] as a result insult and tacticle deversion away from subject becomes there only option.the biblicle problem is so PROFOUND that the science of textual critisisum was created in order to sharpen the skill of SPIN DOCTERING TO TRY AND DESPERATLY JUSTIFY THOUSANDS APON THOUSANDS OF MISTAKES CONTRADICTIONS, AND FICTIONAL STATEMENTS IN THE BIBLE.SO TACTICLE DEVERSION IS LIFE TO THESE CULT PRACTIONERS WHILE THE LIGHT OF FOCUSED TRUTH ON THERE CULT IS DEATH. they do not speak arabic. and they do not speak the language there bible was reveald in, nor the one it was CORRUPTED IN KOINE GREEK which by the way is not even spoken today. LET me recomend a book they should read MILLS APARATUS. knowing nothing but the mere minimum of there religion is in fact an article of faith 4 them because if they knew more islam would increase in shahadas even faster than it is now.-

[TheFateofFaith] WITHOUT HAVING ANY CRITICLE HISTORICLE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THERE OWN RELIGION exsept 4 WHAT theY MERCIFULLY GET FROM A SYMPATHETIC COMPUTER SEARCH.THEY DEEM THEMSELVES EXPERTS ON SOMTHING ELSE. IT IS REALLY SAD BECAUSE THEY LIVE IN ARAGENT IGNORENCE.THE IMAMS OF KNOWLEDGE SAID---EVERY MAN OF HADITH WHO HAS NO IMAM OF FIQH {UNDERSTANDING} IS ASTRAY they do not understand practice and its relationship to hadith and its role in verifyability.like a man grabbing on to sea weed in the middle of the ocean in a desperate attempt not to drown there condition is tragic .may god guide them to truth.

[TheBereanSearch] Ibn Masud, a Quran teacher chosen by Muhammad himself, says NOT to follow the Quran you possess today (compiled by Zaid):

Jami At-Tirmidhi 3104--Az-Zuhri said: "Ubaidullah bin Abdullah bin Utbah informed me that Abdullah bin Mas'ud disliked Zaid bin Thabit copying the Musahif, and he said: 'O you Muslim people! Avoid copying the Mushaf and recitation of this man. By Allah! When I accepted Islam he was but in the loins of a disbelieving man'--meaning Zaid bin Thabit--and it was regarding this that Abdullah bin Mas'ud said: 'O people of Al-Iraq! Keep the Musahif that are with you, and conceal them. For indeed Allah said: And whoever conceals something, he shall come with what he concealed on the Day of Judgement. So meet Allah with the Musahif.'"

Who gave Zaid and Uthman the authority to change what Muhammad's chosen Quran teachers said was Quran?

The Berean Search said...

[TheBereanSearch] Part 2- The 2 narrations below completely refute your false claims about the history of the Quran. It shows that Muhammad said to learn Quran from Ubay, but the Quran you have today leaves out some of what he considered Quran. These narrations can only be reconciled in 2 ways:

1) Ubay was right, and part of your Quran is isn't in your book today
2) Ubay was wrong, in which case Muhammad was wrong, and couldn't pick the right teachers of Quran

These narrations also falsify your "memorization preservation" claim. If there were really so many huffaz that had all memorized the exact same Quran, this dispute never would have happened in the first place, and never would have been recorded in Sahih Hadith.

[TheBereanSearch] friendofutube- "...who first compiled the Bible by selecting only 4 of the available more than 24,000 differing manuscripts of the gospels."

Oh my! You have clearly demonstrated that you are completely ignorant regarding the textual history of the Bible. You are going to have to explain WHAT ON EARTH you are talking about in that comment?? You are going to have to explain what you mean by "selecting only 4 of the available more than 24,000 differing manuscripts of the gospels"? Please enlighten us: What were these "4 manuscripts" that were the manuscripts of the Gospels?

[TheBereanSearch] friendofutube- "There is ONLY ONE Quran, the ONE left by the Last Prophet (pbuh) to Aisah (ra)."

So according to you, Aisha had the "true Quran". Ok, well according to you, the Quran in your hand today is NOT the Quran left by your "Last Prophet":

Jami At-Tirmidhi 2982--Abu Yunus, the freed slave of Aishah, said: "Aisha ordered me to write a Mushaf for her, and she said: 'When you get to this Ayah then tell me: Guard strictly (the five obligatory) prayers, and the middle Salat.' So when I reached it, I told her and she dictated to me: 'Guard strictly (the five obligatory) prayers, and the middle Salat, and Salat Al-Asr. And stand before Allah with obedience.' She said: 'I heard that from the Messenger of Allah.'"

Compare that with what is in your Quran today: "Attend constantly to prayers and to the middle prayer and stand up truly obedient to Allah." (S. 2:238) ( cont ) ...


[TheBereanSearch] Part 2 - .....( cont ) According to Aisha, whom you just said had the true Quran, when Muhammad recited this Ayah, it referred to (1) "prayers," (2) "the middle prayer," and (3) "Salat Al-Asr.". This is NOT what is contained in the version of the Quran written by Zaid Ibn Thabit.

There is plenty more to expose how your own Islamic sources prove without a doubt that your claims about your Quran being "perfectly preserved" are false. By all means please help me prove it. You are my right-hand man, my top assistant ;). Or, instead maybe you would like to start quoting former President Thomas Jefferson as your "authoritative scholar" to argue against the Bible and Christianity like you did in your comments section. That should be good for a laugh for all of us!

The Berean Search said...

[TheFateofFaith] I AM AT TIMES FILLED WITH AW AT THE INOCENT DISPLAY OF IGNORENCE BY CHRISTIAN CULTIST.ITS KIND OF TRAGICLY CUTE BUT IN REALITY PITTYFULL AND EVOKES A SENCE OF SORROW 4 THEM ON HUMAN LEVEL NOT AS ANTAGONIST ONE TO THE OTHER BUT ON A PURELY HUMANISTIC LEVEL.BY THERE OWN MOUTHS THEY RENDER THE OBJECT OF THERE WORSHIPJESUS A LYER,I SUGEST THEY READ JESUS PROCLIMATIONS AND HEART FELT STATEMENTS IN JN.17.AND THEN FIND THE MEANING OF MASIAH AND HOW SON IS USED IN RELATION TO IT.TIME IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WAIST THE FATE OF THESE CULTIST IS SEALED UNLESS THEY APPEAL TO THE GOD OF JESUS ,MUHAMMAD AND THE REST OF GODS CHOSEN MESSENGERS.I ASK THAT GOD GIVE THEM VICTORY OVER EGO TO ALLOWS GODS TRUTH TO ENTER THEM


[TheBereanSearch] TheFateofFaith,

So I guess we can we can interpret your continued musing and failure to engage the evidence I have presented as a tacit, "No comment". Why am I not surprised?


[TheBereanSearch] ThefateofFaith- "I SUGEST THEY READ JESUS PROCLIMATIONS AND HEART FELT STATEMENTS IN JN.17"

Since you have stated that Jesus' true words are contained in John 17, we now know that Islam is false, according to you:

5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."

Jesus tells the Father to glorify Him, and claims to share eternal glory with the Father and pre-exist the world. He also claims that God is His Father 6 times in that one chapter, while your Quran explicitly denies that Allah is a father to anyone. I suggest YOU read his proclamation in John 17. You are one confused man.

[TheBereanSearch] Narrated Aisha: "The verse of the stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were written on a paper and kept under my bed. When the messenger of Allah expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper." (Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal. vol. 6. page 269; Sunan Ibn Majah, page 626)

Notice, Aisha specifically says these verses were "revealed" as part of the revelation of the Quran. Why don't you have them in the Quran today?

[TheBereanSearch] We also know approximately how many verses disappeared from the Quran when the goat ate them:

Zirr ibn Hubaish reported: "Ubayy ibn Ka'b said to me, 'What is the extent of Suratul-Ahzab?' I said, 'Seventy, or seventy-three verses'. He said, 'Yet it used to be equal to Suratul-Baqarah and in it we recited the verse of stoning'. I said, 'And what is the verse of stoning'? He replied, 'The fornicators among the married men (ash-shaikh) and married women (ash-shaikhah), stone them as an exemplary punishment from Allah, and Allah is Mighty and Wise."' (As-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.524).

In your Quran today, Al-Azhab is 73 verses, yet it used to be about 286 verses (about the length of Al-Baqara). So we know that around 200 verses are missing from this one chapter alone.

[TheBereanSearch] Add that to 2 of Muhammad chosen people to take the Quran from (Ubay ibn Kab, Ibn Masud) not being able to agree which chapters are actually Quran, and the Quran of Zaid and Uthman being different than BOTH of these men, and I would say you have a mess on your hands, considering the Muslim claims about this book's "perfect preservation".

Muslims, it's time to wake up and see that the textual history of your book is not what you are saying it is, and the the early Muslim scholars did not believe what you believe today about how the text was preserved.

The Berean Search said...

[TheBereanSearch] Quran Is Incomplete -

"Many (of the passages) of the Qur'an that were sent down were known by those who died on the day of Yamama ... but they were not known (by those who) survived them, nor were they written down, nor had Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman (by that time) collected the Qur'an, nor were they found with even one (person) after them." (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p. 23).

It is reported from Ismail ibn Ibrahim from Ayyub from Naafi from Ibn Umar who said: "Let none of you say 'I have acquired the whole of the Qur'an. How does he know what all of it is when much of the Qur'an has disappeared? Rather let him say 'I have acquired what has survived.'" (as-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.524).

[TheFateofFaith] u seem to be getting sicker by the second or you just cant read.I will call u sir in the interest or respect. that was the first time SIR u adressed me directly.and IF YOU READ WHAT U SAID SIR IN THAT REPONCE U JUST SITED YOU SAID AND I QUOTE-- FAILURE TO ENGUAGE THE EVIDENCE THAT I HAVE PRESENTED, I REPEAT THAT I HAVE PRESENTED. U DONT EVEN HAVE THE SENCE TO LIE CORRECTLY OR IS IT FUTILE DESPERATION THAT MAKES U ACT THIS WAY. EVEN THOUGH U WERE INVOLVED WITH FRIENDOFYOUTUBE I STILL RESPONDED TO YOUR IGNORENCE INDIRECTLY BUT TOTALY OBVIOUS THAT U WERE THE INTENDED TARGET.READ P.2 OR 3.BY THE WAY ARE YOU SUFFERING FROM THE SAME DESEASE THAT GLORTHAC IS SUFFERING FROM OR ARE U JUST

[TheFateofFaith] taking clases from him on how to lie and get caught doing it.on nikos9 he is a waist of time masiah is not, was not. will not. BE GOD.MASIAH =CHOSEN SERVANT OF GOD OR=SOME ONE DRAFTED OR CONSCRIPTED INTO THE SERVICE, SERVICE, SERVICE,OF GOD,GOD. READ JN.17;3 AND V.26 I HAVE BROKEN THIS CH.DOWN VERSE BY VERSE I WILL NOT DO IT AGAIN.LET GOD GUIDE U WHEN U FIND HIM.YOUR ARE NOT VERSED IN HADITH NOR THERE SCIENSES YOUR INTENTION IS TO DRAW ATTENTION AWAY FROM THE DELEMAH THAT IS THE DEATH NELL OF YOUR CULT AND THAT IS YOUR BIBLE AS I HAVE SUGGESTED BEFORE PICK UP MILL APARATUS WHERE HE SITES 30,000 OR MORE CONTRADICTIONS AND VARIENSES IN YOUR COMIC BOOK.BUT HE IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG THERE ARE OTHER CHRISTIAN SCHOLERS THAT DOUBLE MILLS IN HIS ASSESMENT.TACTICLE DIVERSION WILL NOT WORK U ARE ONLY LYING TO YOUR SELF.THATS SAD.read all post nothing by u --

[TheFateofFaith] or any of your commrads has adressed any points or answered any questions exsept 4 a scant few that have been deemed by u and your commrads not to be suisidal to answer.let me add more fuel to the fires of your desperate futility--here are some more quotes from the unknowing and unwilling father of your cult---- the primal existence is god ,THE DEVINE WORDIS PLACED IN THE CLOSEST PROXSIMITY TO THE ONLY ABSOLUTLY EXISTING GOD ,WITHOUT ANY PARTISION OR DISTANCE BETWEEN THEM .-- the wordthe son thus begottenfollowed the ways of the father,and formed the different things looking to the protoype patterns which the father supplied,--the wordwhere withalso he god made the world,the word of godthrough whom the whole universe was framed.does any of this sound familiar ? continuing-the same word by which he made the universeis that by whichhe drawsthe perfect man to himself.---


[TheBereanSearch] TheFateofFaith- "YOUR ARE NOT VERSED IN HADITH NOR THERE SCIENSES"

So let me get this straight: because you say I am not "versed" in Hadith nor "there scienses"[sic], this means all your best Islamic sources are false? Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

The Berean Search said...

[TheFateofFaith] that last responce by you is the most ignorent child like thing u have said to date you continually amase me .rethink what u just said and u will see what i mean.continuing ----the word is the image of god{eikon} the devine word is himself the image of god,--the word ,which is more ancient than all the things of creation this is the word of god,the beginning of all things,the first species.--the word was appointed as judge and medeator who is called angle.i could write 3 to 400 such quotes.this from the as i said unknowing father of your cult. who never mentioned JESUS one time in his writings. even though he was his contemperary and lived in the same city.i can connect this to the pre hellinisation period all the way to the present and connect the dots 4 u .--


[TheFateofFaith] this mans interpretation and meaning was light years away from christiam intepretation and manipulation it became which was not of what the auther had intended but that has been the MO. of christianity from the beginning to borrow change and adapt. i can bring out more info and follow up questions but i will get what i have consistantly gotten which are insults ,deversionary tactices ,to quokey fallacys and god knows what else.imagin thinking u are a scholer on islam from the memery of a computer.would any of you try to do open heart surgery on your baby son just because at one time in your life you read a magazine article on the subject. imam malik said--every man of hadith who has no IMAM of FIQH IS ASTRAY.CHRISTIANS CAN NOT PROOV THERE POSITION TO THEMSELVES AND THERE WORST ENEMY IS THE MAN WHO THEY DEVILISLY ELIVATE TO DIETY JESUS WHO FIRMLY TESTIFYS AGAINST THEM THATS A HELL LOL OF A POSTION 2 BE IN.BE WELL BARREN OUR TIME IS OVER. JANNIS BE TALKING TO U --PEACE


[TheBereanSearch] TheFateofFaith- "that last responce by you is the most ignorent child like thing u have said to date you continually amase me"

Well, your insults don't erase the fact that my comment points out your abject logical fallacy. I have provided evidence (with references) from; Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Ibn Majah, At-Tirmidhi, Abi Dawud, As-Suyuti, that shows your Quran has missing verses, that Muhammad's chosen Quran teachers couldn't agree how many Surahs should be in your Quran, and that they both differ from the number of Surahs you have today.

Your only response is to claim that I don't understand Hadith "scienses" [sic], as if this claim by you somehow negates what your Islamic sources say. You are going to wake up one day with nothing but your empty rhetoric and failed logic staring back at you.

[TheBereanSearch] Muhammad named Ibn Masud and Ubay Ibn Kab as 2 people to learn the Quran from. Masud said the Quran has 116 chapters, Kab said the Quran has 111 chapters, but Uthman gave Zaid Ibn Thabit the authority to decide what was and wasn't Quran, and he chose 114 chapters, and then Uthman BURNT all the materials that disagreed with him. Muhammad never gave Uthman or Zaid authority to compile the Quran. They went against his chosen teachers.

Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. (Al-Bukhari, 6.510)

Imagine Muslims burning manuscripts with the Quran written on it today?

The Berean Search said...

[TheFateofFaith] I QOUTE--THERE ARE MORE DIFFERENSES AMOUNG MANUSCRIPTS THAN THERE ARE WORDS IN THE KNEW TESTAMENT . I COULD SIT HERE AT THIS COMPUTER AND FILL 50 PAGES ON THIS CHANNEL ALONE WITH REDICULAS CONTRADICTIONS IN YOUR BIBLE.U HAVE A BOOK THAT WAS COMMISSIONED BY A KILLER CONSTANTINE WHO CHARGED A CONVICTED LYER EUSABIOUS TO WRITE A BIBLE 300 OR MORE YEARS REMOVED FROM JESUS. YOUR IGNORENT CHARGES AGAINST THE QURAN HAVE BEEN ANSWERED OVER A THOUSAND TIMES ARE YOU UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT U ARE BREAKING NEW GROUND HERE, I AM NOT HERE TO PLAY YOUR GAMES YOU CONTINUE LIKE THE REST OF YOUR COMMRADS TO ADRESS NOTHING AND ANSWER ABSOLUTLY NO, NO, NO,NO QUESTIONS . I AM MAD AT MYSELF 4 EVEN WRITING THIS AS IT GIVES YOU A POSITION THAT U EVEN EXIST .YOUR BIBLE FROM BEGINNING TO END

[TheFateofFaith] IS SUCH AN EXSERSISE OF REDICULAS COMICLE ERROR AND CORRUPTION THAT IT TRIGERED THE CREATION OF A DICIPLIN ALL OF ITS OWN WHOS FOCUS IS TO SPIN DOCTOR AND B.S.AWAY THE MORE THAN 300,000 ERRORS AND DIFFERENSES WITHIN THE BIBLE . MORE RECENTLY A MORE AGREEGES PROBLEM IS SURFASING IN THE BIBLE .WHICH IS THE MONUMENTAL PROBLEM OF TEXTUAL HARMONY BETWEEN THE O.T AND THE NT. ITS A JOKE THAT INCREDIBLY ENOUGH COMES THROUGH IN JESUS OWN SITING OF OT VERSES. QUESTION-- WHERE IN THE OT DOES GOD REPEAT GOD SAY HE WILL INCARNATE INTO A MAN BE CRUSIFIDE ON A CROSS DIE RISE UP ON THE THIRD DAY AND SIT AT HIS OWN RIGHT HAND.Q2-GIVE ONE SECULAR CONTEMPERAY SOURSE OUTSIDE THE 4 GOSPLES THAT DESCRIBE THE SO CALLED MIRRACULAS EVENTS OF THE CRUCI=FICTION IN COMPLETE DETAIL AND DO NOT BRING UP THALUS BECAUSE J.AFRIKANUS WILL BE WAITING 4 HIM

[TheFateofFaith] QUESTION.3 WHERE IS THE BELIEF IN INCARNATION OF GOD INTO MAN, MADE A CASUAL ACSEPTED PART OF THE BELIEF SYSTEM OF THE EVERY DAY PRACTISIONERS OF JUDAISUM OR THE SO CALLED PEOPLE OF JESUS. MEANING THAT IT WAS SO CLEAR THAT THERE WAS NO NEED OF DISCUSSING IT OR DEBATING IT GIVE ANY BIBLICLE OR VALID HISTORICLE SECULAR SOURSE THAT MAKES THAT CLEAR STATEMENT. GIVE BIBLICLE CH.AND VERSE NUM. OR NAME OF HISTORICLE BOOK WITH AUTHERS NAME? SIMPLE HUH IT SHOULD BE CHILDS PLAY

[TheBereanSearch] TheFateofFaith- "YOUR IGNORENT CHARGES AGAINST THE QURAN HAVE BEEN ANSWERED OVER A THOUSAND TIMES ARE YOU UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT U ARE BREAKING NEW GROUND HERE, I AM NOT HERE TO PLAY YOUR GAMES YOU CONTINUE LIKE THE REST OF YOUR COMMRADS TO ADRESS NOTHING AND ANSWER ABSOLUTLY NO, NO, NO,NO QUESTIONS"

Your comment about textual variants has no depth. It's a shock-quote, and not related to my points about the Quran. If what I'm saying is so "ignorant" and has really been effectively answered "thousands of times" you should be able to hammer out a rebuttal that disproves what I am saying with ease. What is clear is that you want to rest on the empty claim that it's been answered to deflect away from your lack of ability to answer in a logical and valid way. Also, what does the concept of incarnation have to do with the textual history of the Quran? ( cont )

[TheBereanSearch] Part 2 - Sidiq, your [statements], "No one dares to answer my questions" [paraphrased, not direct quote] is simply a side-show of smoke blowing. I have seen your claims addressed repeatedly in other places on YouTube, but you just go on bringing a never ending supply of new and equally obtuse questions, changing from topic to topic. You seem to think you are the question maker, and everyone else has to answer you, and you yell and rave about it. It's ok, don't answer my arguments proven from your best Islamic sources about your corrupted Quran.

By the way, typing in all capital letters is not only hard to read, it makes you look like an angry maniac who is running around screaming at everyone in print.

The Berean Search said...

[TheFateofFaith] there is no nice way to say this. simply because you yourself by your own actions have taken away my options of puting it any other way. so i will use the only option that u have left open to me and regretfully say--that you have become irrelivent. the same way u butcher the bible that by the way does not need any more butchering by u.YOU BUTCHER what i say and ask. and take the smallest of what i say to further assist you in running from the truth so that i can of my own choise assist you in your ignorent attempt to evade the truth with this childish attempt at tacticle deversion and retreat,its NOT GOING TO WORK --SO 4 GET IT .ITS A WAIST OF TIME. TO SHOW U THE ABSOLUTE FUTILITY OF YOUR GARBAGE THE ANSWER TO ONE OF YOUR QUESTIONS IS DEALT WITH IMEDIATLY WITHIN TAFSIR IBN KATHIER.HAD YOU ANY BRAIN what soever and the ability to think independent of the computer u would have never even embarest yourself and asked the question

[TheFateofFaith] barren you are a vary loyal and aggressive lyer whos skill at lying has not caught up with your LOVE OF ITS USE .asa you know u have been caught allready.shalli again give u a page by page run down to disprove your careless statements.

[TheBereanSearch] TheFateofFaith- "shalli again give u a page by page run down to disprove your careless statements."

Well, seeing as you never disproved, or even dealt with my evidence the FIRST TIME, I don't see how you can attempt to do it "again", but yes, please do go through my arguments claim by claim. I will even summarize them for you, seeing as I'm such a helpful mood (but try to refrain from the empty insults ok)....


[TheBereanSearch] Summary: Muhammd says Ibn Masud and Ubay Ibn Kab are 2 of the 4 people you should learn the Quran from (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 5, p.96). Al-Azhab (S. 33) is 73 verses, yet Ubay says it used to be about 286 verses, about the length of Al-Baqara (As-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.524). Aisha says verses of stoning and suckling invalidating a marriage were revealed as Quran, but they are gone because a goat ate them (Sunan Ibn Majah, page 626). Ibn Masud, chosen by Muhammad himself, says NOT to follow todays Quran, compiled by Zaid (Jami At-Tirmidhi, 3104). [ cont ] ...

[TheBereanSearch] Summary part 2: Umar, a rightly guided Caliph, says the Muslims leave out some of what Ubay recited as Quran. Ubay says he learned it from the lips of Muhammad (Sahih Bukhari, Vol 6, #527). Ibn Umar says no one can learn the whole Quran because much of it has disappeared (As-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.524). People who were the only memorizers of Quran verses died in the battle of Yamama BEFORE anyone wrote down what they knew (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p. 23).

Now please address these issues by QUOTING your sources so that everyone can verify your claims. Thanks.

[TheFateofFaith] or will you ACT like a child with his hand CAUGHT in the cooky jar and answer like you did on PAGE 4 .SHALL I QUOTE IT 4 U. i will be kind and leave that alone and not comment on that further.let the posters read it 4 themselves your post testify against u.let me give you another PRIME EXAMPLE OF CHRISTIAN CULTIST FUTILITY AND DESPERATE DECIET. LOOK AT THE COMPORTMENT OF GLORTHAC JUST TO NAME ONE AND THEN TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT YOUR OWN ACTIONS TO SEE WHAT i mean .u do not harm no one but yourself, your victim is the person staring back at u in the mirror.WHO HAS A CULT HE CAN NOT DEFEND AND A GOD HE CAN NOT DEFINE.I AM GOING TO GIVE U A LITTLE ADVICE DO NOT MAKE CLAIMS THAT U CAN NOT SUBSTANTIATE ABOUT CLAIMS ON YOUTUBE OR AGAIN I WILL GIVE U A PAGE BY PAGE RUN DOWN TO HIGHLITE YOUR AFFINITY FOR DISGUISING THE TRUTH..

The Berean Search said...

[TheFateofFaith] LET YOUR SKILL FOR DISGUISING TRUTH CATCH UP FOR YOUR LOVE OF LYING.can u read?i never asked u to repeat the garbage u are again putting out. and again as is typicle of u no answering questions or points.read my first post.u are siting small points which are important only to the profoundly desperate enemys of islam that have been dealt with allready they are picky unn insignificent and answered. while my points DESTOY YOUR CULT ENTIRELY AND COMPLETLY THATS WHY YOU GLORTHAC AND ALL THE REST EVADE, CHANGE SUBJECT, INSULT, OR JUST COMPLETLY IGNORE AND FADE ON IT. NOW THAT IS A FACT.I WILL REPEAT ONE OF YOUR QUESTIONS IS SO PERSPICIOUSLY STUPID THAT U MUST HAVE BEEN DRUNK TO ASK IT BECAUSE ITS ANSWER CAN BE FOUND IMEDIATLY IN THE EXPLAINATION OF THE SURAHS

[TheFateofFaith] THE REST IS SIMPLE NON SENCE THAT HAS EVEN BEEN DEALT WITH BY OTHERS YOU HAVE DIALOUGED WITH ON THE COMPUTER.THE POINT IS YOUR ARE A PRACTIONER OF A CULT THAT GOT ITS BIRTH FROM PAGANISUM. THAT IS DEFENDED BY THEOLOGICLE AND PHILISOPHICLE PAGANISUM .WHOS FOUNDING FATHERS ADMITT TO its use and almost devine origin.whos foundation of faith can not be found in the book it says it follows BUT THAT CAN MOST DEFINITLY BE FOUND IN EVERY PRE CHRISTIAN PAGAN CULT AND RELIGION .I HAVE PRESENTED WRITINGS THAT SUSTANTIATE THAT CLAIM.FOR U AND THE REST OF YOUR CULTIST COMPADRES TO DEAL WITH WHICH HERE TO 4 HAVE BEEN IGNORED.on this and many channels i have presented a historicle empiricle argument from the pre helinsation period to the present to highlite my points

[TheFateofFaith] and i have shown that the to most significant representations of your cult seperated and devided angrily and with hatred between them amid mutul charges of abject AND PROFOUND PAGANISUM and that it is a charge that has plauged your cult from from the mouths of your enemys to the mouths of its own practioners and founding fathers and most ardent defenders.i have presented pivitol explosive info on people like yehoshua bin parashiya ,yieshu ha notzri the nietzer movement before the advent of christianity and tones of historicle empiricle data prooving the pagan origin and matrix of your cult.WITH NO RESPONCE.QUESTIONS TO ENFORCE THAT TRUTH AND AGAIN WITH NO RESPONCE. HISTORY IS YOUR ACUSER AND EXSECUTIONER .FOR HE WHO WAIST TIME WITH A FOOL IS A FOOL barren from now on u will recieve one reply ---not worth a responce may god 4 give u .jannis a mistake can be learned from LEARN come back when u are ready allah says 39;53 peace jannis

[TheFateofFaith] this is my finnal walk with the blind. my charecter is compassion and humanity which is somthing that u nor your fellow cultist will never understand while living dominated by the demonic deceptive influence of your cult.it is hard to stand passivly by seeing people commited to the tortures of hell by the deceptive influence of your cult. my charecter as u put it is born out of compassion and humanity is to save with gods undenyable and unchallenged simple truth as many as i can. standing passivly by is not an option 4 me.to do nothing with what i know strips me of my most important god given possesion my humanity.i will scream from the moutain tops -STOP, DONT DO IT, LOOK AND OPEN YOUR EYES.here is gods undenyable and unchallenged eternal truth, god is pure mercy made plain and acsessable to all his creation

The Berean Search said...

[TheBereanSearch] TheFateofFaith “i never asked u to repeat the garbage u are again putting out.”

I know you didn't. I doubt you want people to see it all again and prefer it stayed buried several pages back. I'm posting it again because you haven't answered any of it.

Now that you have spent 4 posts calling me (and others) liars and giving all kinds of theories, are you actually going to engage the EVIDENCE with references from Islamic sources that I provided?

As I suspected, you are unable to respond. You are using a lot of space and time calling other people "pagans" and "liars" and whatever other nonsense you can think up. Thank you for making it perfectly clear to everyone that you are unable to defend your Quran from the clear evidence that it is a corrupted book. I feel sorry for you Sidiq :(. You are so full of anger but you can't defend your religion. All you can do is attack others based on bad information and your own misconceptions.

[TheBereanSearch] Here's a summary of my arguments in case you missed them - Part 1: Aisha says verses of stoning and suckling invalidating a marriage were revealed as Quran, but they are gone because a goat ate them (Sunan Ibn Majah, page 626). Ibn Masud, chosen by Muhammad himself, says NOT to follow todays Quran, compiled by Zaid (Jami At-Tirmidhi, 3104). Muhammd says Ibn Masud and Ubay Ibn Kab are 2 of the 4 people you should learn the Quran from (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 5, p.96). Al-Azhab (S. 33) is 73 verses, yet Ubay says it used to be about 286 verses, about the length of Al-Baqara (As-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.524). ( cont ) ..

[TheBereanSearch] Summary Part 2: Ibn Umar says no one can learn the whole Quran because much of it has disappeared (As-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.524). People who were the only memorizers of Quran verses died in the battle of Yamama BEFORE anyone wrote down what they knew (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p. 23). Umar, a rightly guided Caliph, says the Muslims leave out some of what Ubay recited as Quran. Ubay says he learned it from the lips of Muhammad (Sahih Bukhari, Vol 6, #527).

Can you can explain all this evidence that your Quran is corrupted found in your BEST Islamic sources? A response that deals with my evidence and QUOTES with references from Islamic sources would be nice.

[TheFatofFaith] know him worship him and do as his beloved messengers and prophets did who all taught in eternal unicin that god is one and that he is only one to be worshiped.this truth is my life and my passion .i fully realise that everything is gods will. while some reject truth and some others may leave truth that god cleans purifys and doubly replenishes the believers and to that i bear greatfull wittness as i see it unfold 4 me on the streets of n.y.c. 100s of times over ALHAMDULILAH. I will not respond to the to quokey fallacy nor acknowledge its presenter exsept to say that he should read a book by ibn taymiyyah called refutation of phelasfia and the rejection of ibn rushed the catalist of the rennesance he was muslim by the way.maimamidees said all paganisum is cleansed from the muslim it is legal for a jew to pray in a mosque but it is not legal 4 a jew to pray in a church as it is paganisum.

The Berean Search said...

[TheBereanSearch] What does textual variants in the Bible do to answer the evidence I presented about your Quran? If your claim that variants and canonisity issues invalidate a holy book is true of the Bible then it's also true of the Quran. Muhammad's chosen teachers had different “canons” of Quran chapters and variants exist in your manuscripts too. Let's see, how did TheFateofFaith do in addressing the evidence I presented:

1) Aisha said verses of stoning and suckling were Quran, but a goat ate them - Answer: None
2) Ibn Masud, chosen by Muhammad to teach Quran, says DON'T follow Zaid's Quran , what you have today - Answer: None
3) Ubay ibn Kab (another teacher of Quran chosen by Muhammad) says about 200 verses are missing from Surah 33 - Answer:None
4) Ibn Umar says no one can learn the whole Quran because much of it already disappeared in his day - Answer: None
5) Verses were lost when the only people who knew them died in the battle of Yamama - Answer: None
6) Umar says the Muslims leave out some of what Ubay recited as Quran, even though Muhammad said you should take the Quran from Ubay - Answer: None

Overall I think you did a completely horrible job of addressing the evidence Sidiq. In fact, it doesn't look like you even tried to address it at all. You have mostly offered insults.

[TheFateofFaith] where u will find changes ,additions deleations and even out and out admission by your own scholers admitting to UNINSPIRED additions that are not in any of the most ancient of text such as last ch. of mk and its last 8 or 9 verses. which gives u a better reason not to test your faith so u dont drop dead from self inflicted poison. u can easily say its not part of the bible as david wood admitted in his debate with ali attai. so u see u can live to B.S. ANOTHER DAY. QUEST-WOULD U RATHER DRINK THE POISON AND HOPE 4 THE BEST OR WOULD U JUST RATHER ADMITT THAT YOUR BIBLE IS NOT INNERENT AND THAT IT IS CORRUPTED HOW GOOD A CHRISTIAN ARE U CHOOSE?--

[TheFateofFaith] go to any muslim country go to a masjid pick up a quran and compare . CONTINUING---still the omited remains and christians continue to deny the test of faith in mk. read the n.r.s.v. where 50 eminent scholers bemoan the ineptness of the bible to such an extent that it requires an OVERHAUL. there are bibles that have undertaken the task of deleating wholsale such as the n.w.t - here are but a scant few examples --mt.17;21 ,18;11 ,23;24 ,mk.7;16 ,9;44 ,9;45 ,11;26 ,15;28 ,lk.17;36 ,23;17 ,jn.5;4 ,acts 8;37 ,15;34 ,24;7 lol ,28;29 ,rom.16;24 ,1ln.5;7 ,col.1;2 ,2;2 ,rev 1;11 and 2;15 .just to name a few

but the quran remains the same in my possesion i have a russian and french quran and guess what children there exactly the same thats a fact. the qurans mentioned by n.w a c. have been desected by the scholership of islam and thay see no problems or any reason to revise or change the quran while christian scholers are activly changing your bible to this day. the garbage put out by the enemies of islam have been deemed to be b.s. at the vary best. like your dr. morry who his own coleags put out to pasture.but the quran remains the same through times of internal and external conflict and times of internal and external harmony.--

The Berean Search said...

[TheFateofFaith] you are a gutless computer defensless wonder who has blocked me out of his channel where do u get your nerve was it a trip to 99cent store where u stole it.your not worth a responce.CONTINUING--here is somthing to think about all qurans from every part of the muslim world have the exact same content and the same number of surahs.islamic scholership the ulemah as well as all those who hold exaulted positions as it relates to the knowledge of islam from the time of the prophet to just after the prophet to the generations that imediatly followed them till this vary day in 2010 have maintained the quran through all these periods in history to be exactly the same, without change and alterations.conflicts manifested in war by competing muslims such as sunni and shia

[TheBereanSearch] TheFateofFaith- "you are a gutless computer defensless wonder who has blocked me out of his channel where do u get your nerve was it a trip to 99cent store where u stole it.your not worth a responce"

I didn't block you from anywhere. I have "friend lock" on my channel comments. Perhaps that's what you are referring to....but Sidiq, what's with all the anger? You don't like what your Islamic sources say about your Quran? You still haven't even attempted to provide a response. You are just doing more insulting. Everyone sees how empty your little routine is now Sidiq.


[TheBereanSearch] TheFateofFaith- "here is somthing to think about all qurans from every part of the muslim world have the exact same content and the same number of surahs"

No, that's false. The Topkapi Quran, Samarqand Quran, Sana'a Quran, and Quran codex in the London Museum ALL have differences amongst themselves. They have variants.

"generations that imediatly followed them till this vary day in 2010 have maintained the quran "

The Quran you claim they "maintained" is the Quran given to you by Uthman and Zaid ibn Thabit. The very Quran that 2 of Muhammad's chosen Quran teachers said was wrong. All of your Quran's today go back to what Uthman decided not to burn. The evidence I presented is what remains of the pre-Uthman discrepancies. You still haven't answered ANY of the proof I brought from your own Islamic sources regarding your corrupted Quran

[TheFateofFaith] have not caused any of these 2 groups to change and alter the quran in any way. you would think that would be standered procedure as it was between catholic and protestant. but no both groups continue to read the exact same quran today. thay did not even consider it not even to expouse the supioroity of one over the other, the quran remains the same .while IF WE CONTRAST THAT WITH THE BIBLE U SEE WHOLE SALE VIOLATIONS OF THIS SO CALLED BOOK DONE WILLI NILLI AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.from the maseratic text to the septuagent whos aragent corruption even sparked a war both external and civil to the catholic and protestant bibles bibles of today --

The Berean Search said...

in times of peace and in times of war it remains the same even through the efforts of the mujtabids. the same through times of scholerly interpritive conflict or scholerly agreement.it remains the same in times of rulership by the corrupt and unjust to the ruler ship of the pious and compassianate .it remains the same through the subjigation and oppression of the conqerer to the freedom of a successfull struggle 4 liberation.IT REMAINS THE SAME IN THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF MORE THAN 30 TO 60 MILLION PEOPLE FROM THE VARY YOUNG TO THE VARY OLD WHO HAVE COMMITED IT TO MEMERY FROM THE FIRST LETTER TO THE LAST WORD FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.--

IT REMAINS THE SAME BECAUSE IT IS TOTALY AND COMPLETLY WITHIN THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY THAT THIS PUERTO RICAN MAN SADIQ-ABDUL-MALIK WILL SOMEDAY BE ABLE TO MEMORISE IT AND RECITE IT AS OUR BELOVED PROPHET DID 1,500 YEARS AGO ALHAMDULILAH. IT REMAINS THE SAME EVEN IF YOU DESTROYED AND BURNED EVERY QURAN ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH AND KILLED EVERY MUSLIM, MAN, WOMEN, AND CHILD AND LEFT ONE CHILD ALIVE. THAT CHILD WILL BE ABLE TO BRING IT BACK TO LIFE.IT REMAINS THE SAME BECAUSE OF THE EFFORTS AND SACRAFISES of those who came before that took the steps to insure its purety and integrity.it remains the same because it is the speach of allah all mighty god.--


it remains the same because allah himself protected and preserved it as he infused it in the hearts of his creation.and as such it is eternal, to the end of life on this earth back to where it came from allah subhana -wata-allah.it is amirricle from allah that keeps on giving because PROOVS itself even from the knowledge within islam that the enemies of god utilise to disproove and discredit it. and it remains the same because the info used by the enemys of god was ordained by allah himself to further show its mirraculas origins.in conclusion it remains the same because it is THE WILL OF ALLAH.--QUESTIONS-


[TheBereanSearch] Oh boy, this is really really quite sad. TheFateofFaith STILL hasn't addressed a single one of my points. What does the erroneous Jehovah's Witness New World Translation have to do with the Greek and Hebrew manuscript tradition OR the textual history of the Quran? He is not even bothering to cite any sources or bring any proof. He is just giving us circular reasoning. Sidiq, what you don't seem to be able to understand is that EVERY Quran in print that you can appeal to as being "the same" is the same primarily BECAUSE of the evidence I provided. All your Quran's go back to Uthman and Zaid ibn Thabit, the very Quran that Muhammad's chosen Quran teachers told you not to go by, and this is the very Quran that is corrupt. You can't get back to an earlier Quran because Uthman burnt them all. Was Uthman a prophet of Islam now?

Instead of dealing with reality and the evidence, you are now telling people to drink poison. This is both sad and absurd.

The Berean Search said...

[TheBereanSearch] TheFateofFaith- "but we are taught in islam that there is no deseace that allah has not sent a cure 4"

Oh yes, I know that Hadith: Bukhari vol, 4 book 54, #537 - "The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease.""

Let me know how your house fly cure works out for you Sidiq, but in the meantime do care to even ATTEMPT to address my points?

[TheFateofFaith] i will get to the flys as soon as i find unicorns, insects with 4 legs, bats that are really birds, dragans that fly and i also must remember that i must disinfect my house with pigion blood. and feed my cud chewing rabbit and of coure i must teach god simple addition as he faild his last test in the book of num.3 LOL.CONTINUING--6-OF AHIYAH AND VISIONS OF IDDO THE SEER BOTH MENTIONED IN 2 CRON. 9;29. 7-book of iseah the prophet which gives historicle acount of uzziah mentioned in 2cron.32;32 .8- book of cron.that does not exist mentioned in nehemiah.12;23 .9-book of the acts of soloman mentioned in 1kings.11;14.of couse there is much more but i have an appontment with with job the prophet to asure him that he was right on the water cycle and that god was actually wrong LOL,LOL REALLY LOL


TheFateofFaith- "LOL.CONTINUING--....."

You keep typing "continuing" in your posts, which makes it really obvious what your purpose in posting is. You have an agenda to post certain talking points Sidiq. You aren't here for dialogue. You aren't even here for debate.

This is evidenced by your attitude, your word choice, and explains why you don't even ATTEMPT to address the legitimate and sincere points I raised, with Islamic source quotations. You don't even care enough to address these issues. Keep posting Sidiq. You are just exposing your intentions and showing everyone why what you say is illogical.

[TheBereanSearch] The arguments that TheFateofFaith is unable to answer:

1) Umar says the Muslims leave out some of what Ubay recited as Quran, even though Muhammad said you should take the Quran from Ubay (Sahih Bukhari, Vol 6, #527)
2) Ibn Masud, chosen by Muhammad to teach Quran, says DON'T follow Zaid's Quran , what you have today (Jami At-Tirmidhi, 3104)
3) Ubay ibn Kab (another teacher of Quran chosen by Muhammad) says about 200 verses are missing from Surah 33 (As-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.524)
4) Ibn Umar says no one can learn the whole Quran because much of it already disappeared in his day (Sahih Bukhari, Vol 6, #527)
5) Aisha said verses of stoning and suckling were Quran, but a goat ate them (Sunan Ibn Majah, page 626)
6) Verses were lost when the only people who knew them died in the battle of Yamama (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p. 23)

[TheFateofFaith] YOU ARE A JOKE IF I CAUGHT U IN THE STREET FREE OF YOUR COMPUTER YOU WOULD STUTTER LIKE A DRUNK SUFFERING FROM HYPOTHERMIA. BUT EVEN WITH YOUR COMPUTER YOUR A JOKE THATSTHE WORST AND MOST TRAGIC PART. LEARN HOW TO READ .PEACE

[TheBereanSearch] TheFateofFaith- "YOU ARE A JOKE IF I CAUGHT U IN THE STREET FREE OF YOUR COMPUTER YOU WOULD STUTTER LIKE A DRUNK SUFFERING FROM HYPOTHERMIA."

If I'm such a "joke" then proving me wrong should be easy. For some odd reason you seem to be afraid to even try to demonstrate how I am wrong. If I'm a "joke" and you can't refute me, what does that make you Sidiq?

The Berean Search said...

[TheFateofFaith] what is quit sad is that christianity destroys a persons ability to think .and i guess one of the criticle symtoms is that you loose the ability to comprehend what u read.the demands of this cult ask you to abdicate the gifts that god gave us .u must abdicate your heart and mind the abilty to see hear think logicly and correctly to understand and differinciate truth from absolute abusive nonsence.imagin god is his own father who begot himself while both transend the borders of time.nowhere is this consept found in the religion or ancestry of jesus amazingly though it is found in almost every pagan polithistic religion that surround the believers in the one god.in fact adopting this paganisum by christians is clearly rejected supposedly by god and condemed in the stongest terms. read book of duet. and book of joshua.abhorance of truth and its deniyal are also symtoms.

[TheBereanSearch] TheFateofFaith- "what is quit sad is that christianity destroys a persons ability to think"

So let me get this straight. I have provided evidence that the Quran you possess today is incomplete and disagrees with the Quran recited by Muhammad's chosen Quran teachers, and I have made logical arguments while citing your most respected Islamic sources (Bukhari, Abu Dawud, As-Suyuti, etc), and you have failed to address any of the points while simultaneously insulting, calling me a liar, and telling me to drink poison, yet *I* am the one that has problems with my ability to think?

Your poor excuses for responses don't fool anyone, and when your empty rhetoric is challenged on proper logical grounds you only look foolish. This is really sad Sidiq.

[TheBereanSearch] TheFateofFaith,

You've wasted God only knows how many of these 500 character posts with insults, ramblings, and illogical nonsense. You would think you could even try to address even ONE of the arguments I provided (with references mind you).

Pick one of them Sidiq. Respond to it and provide evidence with references as to why you believe I am wrong. Just one Sidiq. Give it one more try.


[TheBereanSearch] TheFateofFaith, Here's a reminder of my major arguments and the Islamic sources:

1) Ibn Masud, chosen by Muhammad to teach Quran, says DON'T follow Zaid's Quran , what you have today (Jami At-Tirmidhi, 3104)
2) Umar says the Muslims leave out some of what Ubay recited as Quran, even though Muhammad said you should take the Quran from Ubay (Sahih Bukhari, Vol 6, #527)
3) Ubay ibn Kab (another teacher of Quran chosen by Muhammad) says about 200 verses are missing from Surah 33 (As-Suyuti, Al-Itqan fii Ulum al-Qur'an, p.524)
4) Aisha said verses of stoning and suckling were Quran, but a goat ate them (Sunan Ibn Majah, page 626)
5) Ibn Umar says no one can learn the whole Quran because much of it already disappeared in his day (Sahih Bukhari, Vol 6, #527)
6) Verses were lost when the only people who knew them died in the battle of Yamama (Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif, p. 23)


[TheFateofFaith] as u will see tactics utilised by this cults adherents or victims that do nothing but acuse and condem themselves by there own hands, it evokes 4 me saddness 4 there condition AS I WAS ONCE ONE OF THEM.it is said u are crazy if u do not know it. where there is no awareness of your actions and no problems in your actions where the wacky is normal. look at the cultist responses to see what i mean.but we are taught in islam that there is no deseace that allah has not sent a cure 4 we offer to them of the truth of al-islam---

The Berean Search said...

At this point I became tired of trying to encourage Sadiq to address my points and my sources, tired of the difficulty of deciphering his posts, and tired of reading his insults. It was only by the grace of the Lord Jesus that managed up to that point even. He made a couple of comments declaring victory over me in the argument, and throwing in some insults for good measure. After that there was a lapse of sometime where Sadiq made no comments on this channel page of youtube. When he returned he did not address me directly, nor did he directly address anything from our discussion above. He just went back to his usual modus operandi and rhetoric about how Christians “are deceived”, “never answer his questions”, “have no response”, and began making more assertions disguised as questions.

Sadiq Abdul Malik frequently posts disjointed information not directed at a particular person and then proceeds to chide whoever is present and onlooking for not answering him. Also, notice that even though Sadiq has cried foul at my mention of his grammar and spelling, he has told me that I need to “learn to read”, am a “joke”, that I have a “disease”, and directed many other insults at me and Christians in general. I think it should be clear to anyone that read the above exchange that Sadiq has demonstrated no substance or logic behind his claims. Congratulations to anyone that managed to read through all of that. Perhaps it will be useful to someone at some point, and it demonstrates the typical level of discourse Sadiq Abdul Malik engages in (on youtube at least). Considering the limitations of the 500 char limit on youtube channel comments and the speed at which comments were moving at the time in question, I think the discussion went fairly well.

So once again: Sadiq, I invite you to dialogue here on this blog to clarify yourself and perhaps even discuss why you never engaged any of the evidence or sources I quoted. Perhaps you could even explain your obvious double standard of complaining over my mention of your grammatical and spelling errors while telling me I need to learn to read and insulting me in all kinds of ways. This is a much better venue of dialogue than the restrictive character limited posts allowed on youtube channel comments.

hugh watt said...

Berean Search said: "Congratulations to anyone that managed to read through all of that. Perhaps it will be useful to someone at some point,"

It was. Well done for sticking with it for so long.