Tuesday, November 10, 2009

Honor Killings According to Ali Siddiqui

In the comments section of this post, Muslim Ali Siddiqui suggests that he can’t find any support for honor killings in Muslim sources but yet has no problem trumping up a verse from the Bible that does.

“But as before, there is no such thing as honor killings. Mathew 15:4 doesn't exist in the Quran.”
I submit that this comment from Ali tells us more about Muslims than it does about Christianity:

1) Anyone who can find honor killings in the Bible, even though the practice is unheard of among Christians, can also find support for honor killings in an issue of Popular Mechanics or on a billboard sign advertising Happy Meals at Mcdonald's.

2) Anyone who can’t find support for honor killings in Muslim sources, even though honor killings are widely practiced among Muslims, is either ignorant of the Qur’an and Sunnah, or he/she believes it is appropriate to willfully deceive others about the same.

The following comments from Ali are surely enlightening in this regard:


“We muslims, because we are the most practicing followers of any faith, we take it very seriously. Which is why whenever someone speaks out against islam theres all those riots and that. Since christians dont practice much you dont really see any type of extreme activty.”

Hence, according to Ali, Muslims engage in honor killings, riots and other types of extreme activity because they are the most practicing followers of any faith. So, the question follows: Are Muslims practicing their faith or not when they engage in such activities? If they are not, then it would appear that Muslims are not the most practicing followers of any faith; if they are, then Islam supports honor killings, riots and other types of extreme activity.

Since Ali insists that Muslims are the most practicing followers of any faith, and since this leads to the conclusion that Islam supports honor killings, then Ali is either ignorant and inconsistent with regard to whether or not Islam supports honor killings, or he is simply being deceitful.

17 comments:

aussie christian said...

Oh boy did I have a big belly laugh at this statement:

“We muslims, because we are the most practicing followers of any faith, we take it very seriously. Which is why whenever someone speaks out against islam theres all those riots and that. Since christians dont practice much you dont really see any type of extreme activty.”

This shows exactly how poles apart islam and Christianity is, and how poles apart followers of Mohummad and Jesus are.

Insult islam you get riots, killings, burnings, jihad etc. practising Muslims do this because it is commanded in the qoran.

Insult Christianity you get, debate, discussion, rebutal, prayers for you salvation, practising Christians do this because it is commanded in the Bible.

Islam the religeon of war.
Christianity the religeon of peace.

I thank you so much Mr Ali Siddiqui for demonstrating the point that has been made by so many for so long and now you have admited it publicly, Islam is the religeon of violence hatred and war. there is nothing peaceful about islam.

I pray for you Ali that this extremely blunt and to the point post will wake you up to the horror you find yourself in. And I pray that you will find true salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ and leave the dead mohummad who cannot save you.

Peace and Love

Leonard said...

"Are Muslims practicing their faith or not when they engage in such activities? If they are not, then it would appear that Muslims are not the most practicing followers of any faith; if they are, then Islam supports honor killings, riots and other types of extreme activity."

Nice one!

Paul Guralivu said...

To Ali:

Oh, boy we are the most extremist of all. We christians are, but we are extremits when we FORGIVE and LOVE those WHOM KILL US.

Paul.

GreekAsianPanda said...

Well, I agree with Ali that Muslims take their religion more seriously than a lot of Christians take theirs.
(Except I think that he is right only in the United States.)

Ali said...

No david, i did NOT mean those who murder, riot are the MOST practicing.
I said because we muslims take our faith very seriously these things CAN happen. The more practicing people in a a faith, the higher chances of extremism (NOT because of faith).

//2) Anyone who can’t find support for honor killings in Muslim sources, even though honor killings are widely practiced among Muslims, is either ignorant of the Qur’an and Sunnah, or he/she believes it is appropriate to willfully deceive others about the same.//

scholor on islam, may you give any quran verses or hadiths?
While your at it can you explain mat 15:4?

//Insult islam you get riots, killings, burnings, jihad etc. practising Muslims do this because it is commanded in the qoran.//

Any sources? All these years i must have been drunk about my faith huh?

Fernando said...

Ali saide:

«The more practicing people in a a faith, the higher chances of extremism (NOT because of faith)»...

Ali: you present two connected facts:

fact #1: The more practicing people in a a faith;

fact 2: the higher chances of extremism;

and then you say: NOT because of faith...

coulde you explain better your point? to me this is like saying: water boils when eat is provided to it, butt not due to the heat thate was provided...

then you saide: «scholor on islam, may you give any quran verses or hadiths»...

sure... can you provide us any verse in the qur'an where the Shahadah is it is entire form?

can you know whate is a logical developement off key statements?

aussie christian said...

to ali,

You really are speaking in double talk, you say: "The more practicing people in a a faith, the higher chances of extremism".

The people practising islam are the ones being extreme. the extremists are the ones doing the rioting looting killing burning jihading etc etc. why? because they follow the teaching of islam, which is uless i am totaly mistaken the qoran, hadith's, and suna.

So i come back to my first statement, when you get rioting by muslims it is because what your "holy books" teach.

Either you have little grasp of english or your deliberatly making misleading statements, either way, might i suggest if you are trying to say something that is opposed to what your actually writing, you need to get a proof reader to clarify your statements.

This is because, as i read it, your saying, rioters are not practicing islam, but the more people practise islam the more violent they become, so by practising islam, ergo you become violent.

on this i totaly agree. on saying islam is a religeon of peace, i totaly disagree.

Peace and Love.

Ali said...

//The people practising islam are the ones being extreme. the extremists are the ones doing the rioting looting killing burning jihading etc etc. why? because they follow the teaching of islam, which is uless i am totaly mistaken the qoran, hadith's, and suna.//

ONCE AGAIN i can say the SAME FOR THE KKK, LRA AND AG.
I cannot believe the ignorance people on here present.
Must be a christian thing.
AGAIN 99 PRECENT OF taliban and al queda tagets and murders are MUSLIM. Constantly their actions contradict islamic sources. And scholors constantly condemn their actions. You dont need a brain to figure that out. But christians will obviously ignore that.
Look, religious goons exist in ALL faiths. The more followers of a faith there will be MORE extremists than a faith that has LESS followers.
Oh and by the way most islamic terrorists come from tribal area's. Those are poor and uneducated. Poverty can cause violence (Christian Science Monitor).

Ali said...

Think about it this way.
Country A has 1000 people
Country B has 20 million.
The crime rate is obviously going to be higher in B.
The MORE people in a place or faith, will have MORE crime than other places or faiths with lower population.

minoria said...

Hello Ali:

I am glad the Taliban and Al-Qaida.Now you have probably heard of the famous Al-Jazeera Muslim cleric who has a weekly show that is viewd,if I am not mistaken,by 10 million people a week,called QARADAWI.

He is in favor of the suicide bombers and terrorists of HAMAS and HIZBULLAH who attack civilians who are NON-MUSLIM ,in Israel.

My question is:"Are you also against THEM?"

Since you don't see Al-Qaida and the Taliban as "freedom fighters" to put next to those who fought the nazis then do you also agree that Hizbullah and Hamas are no better?

aussie christian said...

Ali,

I noticed you said the taliban and al quada murdered nearly only muslims and scholars condemmed the killings.

only one problem with your argument, most of the mulla's mufti's islamic govts, support them with words money equipment etc.

so in reality they give lip service to the west to distance themselves from the violence, while still supporting the terrorist organisations.

and as for proof that the extremists are following the qoran, just listen to their quotes, which are from the qoran. need i say more. oh wait, no proof that an infidel can provide will suffice your need for proof, so this is why i dont bother with long winded explinations. if proved you just either dismiss the proof, or change the subject.

And for your personal information, I condem the people who commit horrendous acts of violence and use their religous writings to warrant such actions. If you are a muslim who lives in peace wherever you live, dont commit acts of violence riots killings bombings etc, I have no problem with you.

So my good Ali, please take this to understand that i condem violent people, i do not condem you or other muslims who are peaceful members of society. In fact I will always fight to ensure my and your freedom to conduct our lives as we see fit, and condem all who want to take it away.

Hope this allows us to have the appearance of friendship in the future.
Peace and Love.

Fernando said...

Ali saide: «ONCE AGAIN i can say the SAME FOR THE KKK, LRA AND AG»...

Ali: can you present ANY evidence thate the actions off these people are based on Christian teachings? Or thate they did whate they did on religious grounds?

I'll gibe you an hint: you won't be hablle to do so... so I'll use the same words you used: I cannot believe the ignorance muslim people on here present...

Semper Paratus said...

Ali,

Ali said:"No david, [For the record, I am not David; check the signature line at the bottom of the original blog post.] i did NOT mean those who murder, riot are the MOST practicing. I said because we muslims take our faith very seriously these things CAN happen. The more practicing people in a a faith, the higher chances of extremism (NOT because of faith)."

I'm afraid that doesn't quite cut it.

I understood your point when originally made; it does not materially differ from your intended clarification above.

In light of your remark that Islam is the most practiced faith, and that the high incident rate of extremist actions is a result of this, as it would (supposedly) be in any faith if practiced to the degree that Islam (allegedly) is, I asked the following: "Are the people who engage in (or approve of) honor killings, riots and other types of extremist actions practicing Islam or not when they behave in such ways?"

To say that they are not is to seriously weaken your claim that Islam is the most practiced faith. If you want to say that these people represent the minority, then you need to account for the fact that things like honor killings and other types of horrendous evils are practiced widely throughout the Muslim world, not just among a handful of wild-eyed individuals professing faith in Allah and Muhammad. In addition, it is not just the individuals who engage in such thigngs that are complicit, but also the societies that foster such behavior (e.g. not every Muslim will kill another family member in an honor killing because not every Muslim family will have a member that "deserves" to be killed, say, for a crime like apostasy or blaspheming Muhammad; but, even those who do not have such a reason in the case of one of their own family members often still agree with and/or sympathize with the actions of those who do.).

For all that, I do like your new excuse for why Islam has so many "goons" in it.

Ali said:Look, religious goons exist in ALL faiths. The more followers of a faith there will be MORE extremists than a faith that has LESS followers. Oh and by the way most islamic terrorists come from tribal area's. Those are poor and uneducated. Poverty can cause violence (Christian Science Monitor).

Weren't Muhammad (the illiterate, i.e. uneducated, prophet) and his earliest followers from tribal areas? Weren't Muhammad and his followers impoverished as a result of their migration from Mecca to Medina? Seems to me I've heard that somewhere before. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they were from a tribal area and that because of this they just couldn't resist the urge to engage in extremist actions, maybe even executions, raids, kidnappings, rapes, etc.

Thanks for that insight. It is all so much clearer now. It looks like the "goons" (your word) go clear back to the beginning of your religion.

Ali said...

//If you want to say that these people represent the minority, then you need to account for the fact that things like honor killings and other types of horrendous evils are practiced widely throughout the Muslim world, not just among a handful of wild-eyed individuals professing faith in Allah and Muhammad//

Again, honour killings are a CULTURAL thing. Again NO ONE has given any ISLAMIC evidence to support this.
Again, islamic extemists are a minority in which 99 PERCENT of their 14 000 terror attacks are muslim tagets and victims.

Unfortunatley Semper, no such terrorism existed during the Prophet's time. They got educated from the Quran and the Prophet.

Semper Paratus said...

Again, honour killings are a CULTURAL thing.

Ali, you need to decide which horn of the dilemma you want to take. Either Islam is the most practiced faith or it isn't. Either it is practiced by a minority, who don't steal, kill and destroy; or, it is practiced by the majority, i.e. not just by a straggler here and there but by entire societies of people. If the latter, then writing off things like honor killing on Islamic cultures only implicates Islam. You obviously don't get the problem.

Unfortunatley Semper, no such terrorism existed during the Prophet's time. They got educated from the Quran and the Prophet.

During your (false) prophet's time, he was the terrorist.

That shouldn't be very surprising. After all, he was an uneducated individual from a tribal area and needed some way of getting what he wanted.

Ali said...

Okay i think i haven't been very clear.
I'm not relating honour killings to extremism (it is extreme, but I'm talking in the sense of the taliban and al queda-that kind of extremist activity)
They are a minority whose 14 000 jihad attacks,99% of them are targeted towards muslims.

The more people practicing a faith, the more CORRUPT religious people come out.
ALL religions have bad grapes in them.
So tell me, even though christians continue to fail (must be a holy spirit thing) to prove where honour killing exist in islam, is there a need to relate it to the religion?
Like i've said, MANY times before, honour killings are CULTURAL (i.e MANY CULTURES).
Many cultures have alcohol connected to them. Many islamic countries sell alcohol because its the CULTURE.
There is a difference between the tribes of today and back then. Like how David attempted, you most likely cannot find ANY relation whatsoever between Muhammed pbuh and his ways, and the taliban/al queda.

Semper Paratus said...

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (peace be upon him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace be upon him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace be upon him) was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet (peace be upon him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.
----------

AI-Mughira b. Shu'ba (Allah be pleased with him) reported that Sa'd b. 'Ubada (Allah be pleased with him) said: If I were to see a man with my wife, I would have struck him with the sword, and not with the flat part (side) of it. When Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) heard of that, he said: Are you surprised at Sa'd's jealousy of his honour? By Allah, I am more jealous of my honour than he, and Allah is more jealous than I. Because of His jealousy Allah has prohibited abomination, both open and secret And no person is more jealous of his honour than Allah, and no person is more fond of accepting an excuse than Allah, on account of which He has sent messengers, announcers of glad tidings and warners; and no one is more fond of praise than Allah on account of which Allah has promised Paradise.