Tuesday, November 10, 2009

Muhammad on Honor Killings

I blocked a comment from our friend Osama Abdallah, but I decided to answer it here because it was actually a reasonable question. (No, I'm serious.)

Osama wanted a Muslim source on honor killings. How about this one:

Sunan Ibn Majah 2540—It was narrated from Ubadah bin Samit that the Messenger of Allah said: “Carry out the legal punishments on relatives and strangers, and do not let the fear of blame stop you from carrying out the command of Allah.”

Here Muslims are told to carry out Islamic punishments against their own families. So if a daughter is behaving immorally, the family is to carry out the punishment. Any questions?

It's strange that a man who said he would skin his own sister alive if she became "loose and flirty" is challenging honor killings.


Nabeel Qureshi said...

I suggest we unblock Osama now that he has asked a reasonable question... at least until he says extremely objectionable things again. What say the rest of ye?

Fernando said...

Brother Nabeel... yes, I do beliebe thate this time Osama The Great Abdallah will behabe properlie... we all knoe he's a good person and willing to learn withe his mistakes... so, mie vote is to allow him, on parolle, back again...

Apollos26 said...

Dear Nabeel, brother in christ

it is great to see man like You, David, Sam and other christians who stand for the truth.

I am against the unlocking of Osama. He isn't interested in honest discussions getting to know what christians believe. He comes up with his self-made theories and misconceptions about christianity, calls our bible a book of pron and other things. I think, we christians in general shouldn't throw the pearls befoire swine, as Jesus said. I may sound a bit harsh, but I think enough is enough. He often offended christianity and christians in many forms, so we shouldn't allow a person like him to continue.

I think any further engaging with this person is a big loss of time and energy. YOu often debated him, but I think he never deserved the possibility to debate any christian.

I think you all can understand my point.

Christ is LORD,


David Wood said...

The problem is that we've unblocked him over and over again in the past, and he continues to be a problem.

Nabeel Qureshi said...

Apollos and David--

What you say is true, but I'm one of those "second chances" kind of guys. But, if others agree with the two of you, Fernando and I will yield our opinion.

Simon said...

let osama abdulla come out. i wudnt want him to think we r blocking him cause hes a muslim.and besides hes a good comedien. i need a laugh

minoria said...

I think Osama should be unblocked.I do not know what he thinks of the Fort Hood massacre.It would be interesting to hear his take.In Italy just a bit ago a FAMOUS FEMINIST DANIELA SANTANCHE said to a Muslim cleric live on Italian TV that they would never accept Mohammed because he was a polygamist and a pedophile because of the Aysha thing.She said it was a historical fact,and that she was 9.


I thought the Muslim would deny it.Instead he insulted her.And the Muslims in the audience became violent and a man had to be controled by security.

When a Muslim CHANGES the subject it is because he really agrees.There the cleric,instead of saying yes or no,called her ignorant...but he did not say it was not true.I am sure all the Muslims in the audience knew the story.

Gem said...

Well, if we want to have fun, we might need to think of unblocking him for a certain period of time. Once that period shows the fun is no longer funny, then I think ban for life should take in effect asap.

Apollos26 said...

Brotehr Nabeel,

I know what you mean, but I really think it will be "just for fun" at the end, unblocking this guy. I mean he really is one of the worst, if not the worst debaters I have heard. I think otuthere, there must be at least one muslim who is really interested in a dialoge with christians, not in pointless brawls.

I really wished for this guy, that he will be healed from his blindness because it really seems that his heart is hardened.

Did he ask for being unblocked?

Did he apologize?

aussie christian said...

I am in two minds on mr abdullah.

1. he should be let back in, because if you can read between the lines you actually get a good notion of what the majority of radical muslims think.

2. He should stay out, because, he is a lier, abusive, degrading to all civilised people. That and he refuses to answer a direct question, instead choosing to ignore the question and reverting to abuse lies and filth.

I suggest the latter, mainly because there are enough muslims who post on this site who can give us more or less the same useful info as osama did, and they do it in such less of a draconian and abusive fashion.

Let osama stay in the dark. let him feel what eternity will be like with his god, satan the devil.

Peace and Love

Ali said...

//Sunan Ibn Majah 2540—It was narrated from Ubadah bin Samit that the Messenger of Allah said: “Carry out the legal punishments on relatives and strangers, and do not let the fear of blame stop you from carrying out the command of Allah.”//

You know when i searched this up i only got 2 sites: This one and another christian one.
What are the chances of this hadith being reliable? (hint: theres over 5000+)

ubiquitouserendipity said...

osama has a history of internet terrorism dating back at least 8 years. he has proven his unworthiness to move amongst, and function with, the rational. although, letting him post is probably one of the best witnesses against mohammedanism. so i'm somewhat split,,, but no, he is duplicitous and unrepentant. he will just continue to function to his lowest capabilities.

islamoleery, not islamophobic

Fernando said...

Ali saide: «You know when i searched this up i only got 2 sites: This one and another christian one. What are the chances of this hadith being reliable?»...

in a "normal world" where true woulde be reliable your point might habbe some straight; in the "logic off islam", where covering up these facts so other people do not know about them is a key-rule, the streight is on the posibility of being reliable... ah.. have you done the searc in arabic? I did... and the number is not 2, neither 4, neither 40...

and Ali... is they are not reliable, why do muslims still habe them? Where can we find a reliable compilation, accepted bie all muslims, off all the reliable hadiths?

The Fat Man said...

As far as unblocking Osama Abudllah he does make things more interesting, and a little more lively.

Ali said...

Fernando, its because christians aways like bringing them up. We dont keep any unreliable sources.
David did you copy this hadith from that other christian site? Looks like it.
Again I fail to find where hnour killings exist in my faith.

David Wood said...

Ali said: "David did you copy this hadith from that other christian site? Looks like it."

I copied it from the Darussalam edition of Sunan Ibn Majah sitting on my bookshelf.

Ali said...

David I'm asking for the RELIABILITY. Again upon searching this hadith i only found 2 sites, BOTH christian ones.

Ali said...

David I'm still waiting for you to explain the reliability of the hadith. (again here's a hint theres over 5000 of them).

I have never heard of this hadith and again when i searched it up i only got this site and another christian one.
Wouldn't you think your friends at answering-islam, faithfreedom or jihadwatch would've presented this awhile ago?

David Wood said...


Do your own research. I gave you a Hadith from Sunan Ibn Majah, one of Islam's most trusted collections of ahadith. If you don't believe the Hadith, then explain why. (NOTE: "But it's only mentioned a couple of times in Google" doesn't count. This translation of Ibn Majah came out only recently.)

Ali said...

Uh huh so when you apparently do the research for islam pretty much all the time, and i bet you've never asked any other muslm on here to do "research", all of a sudden because you cant explain to me the reliability of the hadith you presented, you want me to do research even though my previous comments have proved i've done so? Why are you saying this to me now just all of a sudden?
Recently translated? And some how you're the only one who has it sitting on his shelf? I'm not uunderstanding this. Maybe you can explain this as well.

David Wood said...


I'm not sure what you want from me, but you're getting annoying. You're obviously disturbed by the fact that Muhammad commanded his followers to kill family members.

I gave you a source--Sunan Ibn Majah. If you can show that my source in unreliable, please do so. But if you expect me to do the research for you, think again. I'm not your dhimmi.

leviMichael said...

keep him out! between ali and ashraf we have enough entertainers.

Ali said...

I've caught you here david. I can tell your cracking right up.
YOU presented a hadith that NO one has heard of.
I asked YOU to explain where you got it form and the reliability.
And YOU're saying i'm annoying because you can't make up an excuse?

David Wood said...


You're right that I'm cracking up, but I don't think I mean the same thing you mean.

You asked for a saying from Muhammad. I gave you one. You ask where I got it from. I've told you where I got it from--Sunan Ibn Majah. Now you're telling me I need to investigate its authenticity for you. And here you're simply wrong. You need to grow up and investigate things for yourself. This comes from one of your most trusted collections of ahadith. If you want to reject it, you need to come up with a reason for rejecting it.

You seem to assume that I'm just dying to convince you of something. Here you're simply wrong. I couldn't care less whether you accept your sources or throw them out. (Indeed, I'd rather you throw them out. The more ahadith you reject, the closer you are to rejecting everything about the life of Muhammad.)

So here's where we are. I gave you a Hadith. You want to reject it, but you're so incredibly lazy that you refuse to do the slightest bit of research on your own. You even expect Christians to do a study of Muslim sources for you!

Well, too bad. Based on the number of comments you've posted on this, I can see that this hadith troubling you tremendously. If it bothers you that much, I suggest you learn to do research. Otherwise, quit complaining. I'm not your dhimmi.

Ali said...



-YOU presented a hadith no on has EVER heard of.

-YOU came up with it and no one knows HOW.

-I ask YOU, because YOU came up with it, to explain when, why it was said. I asked the RELIABILITY because again YOU came up with it. And YOU have not been able to answer me.
What the matter? why dont YOU (because YOU came up with it) explain to all of us?

If you didn't ignore my previous comments, i told you i researched that hadith and i got re directed back to this site (no faithfreedom, no answeringislam, no jihadwatch)
Why shoudn't i reject what YOU came up with?
Lol Dhimmi. Nice sidetracking.

David Wood said...


Are you saying that no one has ever heard of Sunan Ibn Majah???

There's no point in talking to you if you don't know the basics of Islam. It's one of the six collections known as Sahih Sittah.

Now that we've cleared that up, we can cover the "how" I got it. Well, I opened up the book and typed the Hadith into my computer. Is this really beyond you comprehension? IT'S IN THE BOOK. BUY IT AND SEE. AND SINCE IT'S IN THERE, ANYONE WITH THE BOOK CAN TYPE IT INTO A COMPUTER. IT'S NOT DIFFICULT. I DON'T SEE HOW YOU CAN'T FIGURE THIS OUT.

Ali said...

Wow WHAT a joke.
AGAIN you in NO WAY are answering me AT ALL.
AGAIN this hadith is NO WHERE to be found (NOT ON jihadwath, NOT ON answering islam, NOT ON faithfreedom or ANY of it's affiliates, NOT ON investigate islam, NOT ON islamreview, NOT ON truthnet......)

YOU JUST pulled this out of mid air recently, and not EVER before.

Dont YOU think there's something WRONG when NO site has this hadith?

Your claim that this was "recently translated" means NOTHING. And i find it difficult NONE of your christian buddies have this hadith.

Yeah i can tell you want to leave this discussion. You haven't cleared up NOTHING.
You CANNOT find me a link to this hadith, nor can you find me another narration of anything similar AT ALL.
YOU dont know why, where this was said.
YOU dont want to investigate this hadith because YOU KNOW your wrong here.

aussie christian said...

To David,

The reason ali can't get it is simple: It blows his argument away. simple as that, because it proves his argument to be false then there is no amount of proof on earth that can prove the point.

Same as when a muslim claims anything against Christianity, anything at all including a snail shell with two dots on the side will be brought forward as proof.

Or to put it another way, nothing can disprove islam but anything can disprove Christianity.

But on a side note, ali has got to the point where he is just throwing a tantrum cause he has lost. I wouldnt bother flogging a dead horse, it wont get you any further.

Peace and Love

Ali said...

i can see aussie deosn't want to admit either.
Probably a holy spirit thing.

David Wood said...

I think I've figured out the problem. Ali defines "Sunan Ibn Majah" as "what gets quoted on Christian websites," whereas I define Sunan Ibn Majah by the actual collection of ahadith.

So here goes. (And I have to say, Ali, that if you keep wasting my time with these idiotic ramblings, I'm going to ban you like your friend Osama.)

I have in front of me Volume 3 of Darussalam's 2007 translation of Sunan Ibn Majah. It is compiled by none other than Imam Muhammad Bin Yazeed Ibn Majah Al-Qazwini. The Hadith collection was edited and referenced by Hafiz Abu Tahir Zubair Ali Za'i. It is translated by Nasiruddin al-Khattab. I turn to page 455, which falls within the "Chapters on Legal Punishments." I look at Hadith #2540, which reads:

"It was narrated from Ubadah bin Samit that the Messenger of Allah said: 'Carry out the legal punishments on relatives and strangers, and do not let the fear of blame stop you from carrying out the command of Allah.'"

So did I get it out of thin air, or did I get it straight out of the book? Am I supposed to reject the Hadith because you can't find it on Jihad Watch? Do you realize how crazy you sound???

I'm starting to think you're insane. Are you Nadir Ahmed?

David Wood said...

New rule. Anyone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit is getting blocked. I simply can't continue hitting "Accept Comment" when by pushing the button I am posting blasphemy against the Spirit. So, you're blocked Ali. You've wasted all of our time, and you have spoken against the Spirit of God.

Apollos26 said...

Brother David,

bravo for blocking this guy and for doing so whoever blasphemes the Holy Spirit.

God bless

donna60 said...

This is just a suggestion for showing that this hadith actually exists in this little book. You could scan the page of the book that this quote is on into this site, and Ali could actually see the hadith from this book for himself.

The only reason I am suggesting this, is that I think that Ali doesn't believe it because he doesn't own the book and doesn't see the quotation anywhere else.

I personally don't have the money to buy books on the hadiths. I get all of my quotations from websites. Maybe Ali is the same way.

I really like Osama. He frequently makes me giggle. I absolutely adored him talking about demons in the mouth and bad breath. It was hysterical! I use that quote all of the time.