Monday, November 9, 2009

James White vs. Imam Syed Sayeed: "Jesus in the Qur'an and the Bible"

We had a little problem with lights at the beginning, but it gets fixed later on.

PART ONE


PART TWO


PART THREE

24 comments:

LouisJ-B said...

Dr.White should have been more forceful when stating the Biblical reasons for rejecting m'Who?'hammad.;-)

p.s. The audio drops out starting at 7:30.

Royal Son said...

But the debate wasn't about Mohammad it was about Jesus. I think Dr White did an excellent job. The Imam didn't seem to be up for the job at all.

LouisJ-B said...

Royal Son said:

'But the debate wasn't about Mohammad it was about Jesus...'

What i meant was m'who?'hammad' revelation.

Adam said...

Peace of Lord Jesus Be with you all.

Hi everybody

It’s been sometime I have been talking to Muslims and Christians about Debates. I have been getting mixed response from Christians and Muslims. One of my closest friend said these debates will only destroy the peace and harmony among certain communities. So far this has been true. Lets make apologetics as a tool to heal and win than a sword.
Muslims consider a debate as war, and their religion allows them to lie for islam. So they might not feel any repentance or guilt in misleading people with such propaganda.
muslims has already taken their stand about their faith, rejected the Christian beliefs, continuously speak against nature of Christ.
A muslim apologist mainly invites a Christian to mock and do a parade. If a Christian looses this debate then they consider Christianity as totally false and baseless religion thus trying to confirm their own belief which they have done many times in the past. They invite Christians to mock, than seek the truth. But if Muslims loose the debate which is never accepted like in many cases, islam is still the truth for them whether they lose or win. So its starts with a misguided foundation about Islam and Christianity. For them it’s all winning situation and a mocking stage show against Christians. Thus they invite a non apologetic Christian to come and debate, not to clarify the truth but to mock them, thus moving further from truth. Remember many muslims are not of an intellectual class. As in India many muslims who attend Debates are poorly educated Mob. Islam does not allow them to think about a world beyond islam. The creative and intellectual class of muslims are never accepted as true muslim, many are criticized or tolerated.
Dear Christians it’s our Duty to make apologetics as a tool to heal and win than a sword.

Adam.

Ali said...

//Muslims consider a debate as war, and their religion allows them to lie for islam.//

Again, taqiyya is a SHIA thing.
And what about Paul saying lying for christ, he rejoices?

//As in India many muslims who attend Debates are poorly educated Mob. Islam does not allow them to think about a world beyond islam.//


Typical christian remark. Yes we're stupid and dumb.
These excuses continue to remind me of why i am not a christian.
Our religion does not allow us to think beyond islam? Myabe you can explain.
Again we have christians speaking for islam. Another reason why i'm not christian.

george said...

Ali

Hope u had gone through Adam's POINT. See, Most of Muslims in world are poor-educated and this is well accepted by mUSLIMS and secular documents. so in india people like zakir and imran are super heroes who do fashionable stunts which is noy proved at all.

Yeah u r right, u dont use freedom to study Christianity and thats the reason why u are Not a christians.
Thanks Ali for finding teh right answer for why u r not Christian

Royal Son said...

"Again we have christians speaking for islam. Another reason why i'm not christian."

Hold on a second Ali. You are perfectly aware that Muslims try to speak for Christianity right? They are forever reinventing our scriptures to fit their brand of theology.

Since Muslims try to speak for Christianity, you're going to stop being a Muslim, right?

David Wood said...

Ali said: "And what about Paul saying lying for christ, he rejoices?"

Care to quote that statement in context, Ali?

I see it's not enough for you to misrepresent and distort your own religion. You now join other Muslims in deliberately distorting ours.

Adam said...

Dear brother Ali peace of Lord Jesus Christ be with you and all.

Just felt like communicating with you and other readers about your comments.

1) “As in India many muslims who attend Debates are poorly educated Mob”

This is very true in India. India has 3rd largest muslim population in the world. Most of the Indian Muslims are poorly educated, madrassa educated or school dropouts. Muslims are poor and backward just like many Tribal and Lower caste Hindus. In fact many muslim In India were coverts from the Evil caste system of Hinduism. The social problem of muslim always keep on mounting. Muslim get aid and other support form Middle East. But due to corrupt Mullas and other muslim leaders this aid doesn’t reach the needy.
Till date ask any muslims How many Hospitals, Schools, Colleges and other welfare activities carried out by their leaders. He will surely name some handful of institution, majority run by Non by Sunni muslim sects.
Apart from that You Wahabbis play a good role of making them extremist and future terrorists. Hence leads to hatred by others. You Wahabbis are making them more arabs muslims dictating them not to believe in Nationalism. But in your own Arab countries you treat Indian muslims as 2nd class citizens.

2) “Islam does not allow them to think about a world beyond islam”.

This also very true in my country, You Wahhabis Muslims create fear and mental panic, in ordinary people.
You, Wahabbis extremists, neither appreciate art or culture. I still remember my friend, after listing to Wahabbi agent Zakir talks –on not wishing Christian Merry Christmas for it is unislamic. I could only see you, making them more religious rather good humans. You don’t allow them to read the bible with open mind.
Even our former President APJ Kalam ( a muslim and scientist) was criticized by your Saudi sponsored islamist in India. For he was appreciating Hindu culture and his moderate approach to religion.
You don’t allow them to love their neighbor or friends who are non muslim. Corrupt their minds with hatred.

You Wahabbis are the one who say, If you don’t follow the real Islam of Saudi style you all are sinners.


3) “Typical christian remark. Yes we're stupid and dumb.

These excuses continue to remind me of why i am not a Christian”.
Ali, I did not say Muslims are stupid or dumb. Rather you are accepting, YOU are stupid and dumb. Please don’t use “We” for whole Muslim as stupid and dumb. People like you give dumb excuses for why YOU are not a Christian.
I bet you, if given a chance to Muslims and Non Christians to Choose Jesus Christ or Muhammad prophet of Islam. The overwhelming majority will accept Jesus over Muhammad. That is the reason you Wahabbis and Saudi sponsored Daawa preachers are afraid of Christianity.

4) “Muslims consider a debate as war and their religion allows them to lie for islam””

Yes, again very true, this is also called a different Jihad against disbelievers. If you were from India, a Muslim would boost about Islamic victory on stage. Saying it is like a true Jihad. If a Christian start exposing True Prophet Muhammad and his true religion of Kaaba cult islam. The Christian apologist will be on their hit list. Have you not observed your Daawa preachers twist, turn, lie and go off topic to prove supremacy of islam over other religion. There are many Daawa speakers in India. One fellow called Zakir Naik who is now evading debates from Christian apologist.

5)“ what about Paul saying lying for christ, he rejoices”

I would like to know this from Muslims, Christian and others. Where, Why, What, When and How did St.Paul lied for Jesus Christ.

Dear Non Muslim readers,
it’s our Duty to make apologetics as a tool to heal and win than a sword

ashraf said...

Hi Adam bhai, Kya Haal hain? bilkul teek hain?

Adam Said:
"Muslims consider a debate as war, and their religion allows them to lie for islam. So they might not feel any repentance or guilt in misleading people with such propaganda."

Adam please explain me about the verses below:
1st corinthians
9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Romans
3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

Philippians
1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

Adam bhai you are talking about faith, please teach me what's ur faith & How muslims are not following first commandment? i think this is the important faith to be followed by all human being.please explain to me simply, don't give me any links to the christian site.

Adam said
"Remember many muslims are not of an intellectual class"

you mean to say all christians in india are intelligent?

Adam said
" Dear Christians it’s our Duty to make apologetics as a tool to heal and win than a sword."

Adam bhai this is the only good point you made so far (according to me). please tell your christians to evacuate occuppied muslims countries and stop manufacturing hi tech weapons. do you know U.S gained 30 billion dollars last year by selling weapons to other countries.So please tell them stop suck others blood to keep yourself healthy like vampires.

Khudha Afiz.
bye.

Fernando said...

Ali saide: «Again, taqiyya is a SHIA thing»...

no it is nott... the word "taqiyya" (strange the way you speel it... taqqiya arleady?...) might be specialy used by shia muslims, butt the notion thate it expresses is common to ALL muslims... saying whate you say is, in itself, practzing taqqiya...

Ali also saide: «And what about Paul saying lying for Christ, he rejoices?»... coulde you present thate verse and it's context? Can you do thate? And is this not a muslim speaking for Christianity? Woulde you not, iff wantting to bee coherent withe your statements, want to leave islam?

How much hate and inmature comments in your words... Adam simply stated a fact thate any sociological study can show, butt muslims cannot bear the truth... how sad...

Gem said...

Adam said
One of my closest friend said these debates will only destroy the peace and harmony among certain communities.


Gem
I guess if we view it from human perspective there is some truth in it but it is not 100% true though. The way I look at it, is not the debates between the 2 debaters but also those who listen to the debates.

In the country I am from "Indonesia" Christian has been persecuted and challenged by muslims. In every corner of opportunity muslims will attack
Christian doctrines and those lay Christians are not well trained for a proper answer and they got confused. Thus this type of debates will in fact strengthen some of my Christian friends in Indonesia.

Well, Adam you said your friend thought it would destroy the harmony.. I kind of hard to believe that as there will never be a harmony between the World and God, between falsehood and Truth. Christians in Indonesia never attacked Islam but they did. They stoned my church and in fact the hurled pebbles at me so many times. So, what sort of harmony has ever been existed Adam? I dont understand your friend? I started to see the light due to the Christian Heroes that defend the Truth of Christianity. And because of these people, God also uses me to convert one Whole Muslim family in Indonesia. So, I guess the meaning of harmony needs to be viewed under the light of God's word. Do you agree Adam?

I may be wrong.. so forgive me if I am wrong.

Bless you brother Adam

Fernando said...

Hi ashraf...

it seams thate you habe responded for my question to Ali aboutt the supposed verses where Paul, in muslim's mind, seams to lie...

now, seriously, could you present any real verse where Paul did (say he) lie? Thanks...

aussie christian said...

To Ashraf,

I personally would like to see the west be able to pull out of Islamic countries without further delay.

At which point we could then put on planes boats all the refugee's from those islamic countries and send them back to their homelands. because islam is totaly peaceful and welcomes all muslims no matter which sect they are from without discrimination or compulsion.

The only tiny minut point is, they came to this country because they were being terrorised and killed by Muslims. alqada, taliban etc.

So many countries gathered together to stop such orginisations from killing inocent people. But you only seem to see that muslims are being killed by non muslims. you seem to not see that many in the west are trying our hardest to gain for many muslims the same freedoms we share in the west, which is being able to live your life without being killed for having a different view to someone else or would you prefer to have the taliban in charge?

I am sure that as islam is such a wonderful religeon you are just busting a beanbag to get yourself a ticket on the first flight to a sharia law islamic state country, move in and become a citizen.

And of course seeing as nothing good can come from the west, you will do your research and forgo the useage of anything not invented by a muslim inventor.

So before you start bagging the freedoms that you enjoy in the west, sit down and have a good long look at what you have and what your muslim bretheren are missing out on, either that or go join them. Start using your brain instead of regergitating islamic propoganda please, it gets old real quick.

Peace and Love.

Darren said...

To Ashraf janab,

I entirely agree with Aussie Christian but would like to add some more. I have seen many times muslims shouting & proclaiming "A muslim cannot kill a muslim", is that muslim is a member of an intelluctual class or a big fool on earth. Who kills muslims in plastine, pakistan,Iraq & Afghanistan by suiside bombings etc.? are they not muslims who kills muslims?

You all muslims are a bunch of hypocrites.

Darren said...

To Ashraf janab,

I entirely agree with Aussie Christian but would like to add some more. I have seen many times muslims shouting & proclaiming "A muslim cannot kill a muslim", is that muslim is a member of an intelluctual class or a big fool on earth. Who kills muslims in plastine, pakistan,Iraq & Afghanistan by suiside bombings etc.? are they not muslims who kills muslims?

You all muslims are a bunch of hypocrites.

Ali said...

I'm not wahabbi by the way.
Oh dear God are we REALLY going back to the taliban and al-queda?
Wasn't what i said enough to inform you all their actions CONTRADICT islam?
Again I can say the SAME for the KKK, LRA and AG.
The verse is philipians 1:18 too.

ashraf said...

Hi kabaayan,

i can give you many examples but it is waste of time i believe, so better pray god almighty to show you right path.

Hi Aussie kristian,

your comments echoing some kind of superiority complex,this is the main problem with your white skin lords. i believe this is the reason indian students are being attacked by australian racist in your country(ignore it,if u r not a aussie)

you said:
"The only tiny minut point is, they came to this country because they were being terrorised and killed by Muslims. alqada, taliban etc."

Auusie, before 1940 no any islamic terrorist groups existed in this world. your white skin grandpaas did all evil things to muslim community, you christians divided palestine and gifted to your lord killers Jews and made citizens of palestines as refugees. i believe this cause anger amongst muslims against west, am i right?

so bring justice to those people who sufferd lot, and evacuate your invaded forces from other countries sir,then surely we can get rid off this terrorists.so please look at the root cause aussie & don't blame islam for everything. yes islam gives muslims green signal to resist & retaliate against the human devils.

Fernando said...

Hi Darren...

recently I saw in CNN a story aboutte the "jihad reformation" thate is being happening in Libya... they knw say thate a jihadist cannot kill:

women;

child;

christian priests;

other muslims...

how... whate a reformation... this leaves out off this list more than 75% of the world population...

Fifth Monarchy Man said...

Hey Ashraf

How are you doing?

You said:

please explain me about the verses below:
1st Corinthians

1st corinthians
9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.


I say:

I am so glad you asked. Please check out this MP3

http://s3.amazonaws.com/tgc-video/2009-conference/plenary/Carson_session_10.mp3


This a talk by DA Carson one the most respected Christian scholars alive today given at a Christian conference. It will allow you to get an idea of what Christians believe this text to be saying.

Since this talk was not intended for a non Christians you can be confident that it is the honest reading.

I would also recommend it to the Christians here. It again reminds us what "be all things to all people really means."

We all need to hear that message from time to time

peace

Darren said...

To Ashraf,

As i had always said that in my whole life i have seen many good muslims but never a sensible & discreet muslim, please don't demonstrate again & again we know that you muslims don't use your brain. You must be from Pakistan or India since you didn't responded to my earlier comments i have something for you.

Why you muslims always talk about Jews & plastinies, why don't see the log in your own eyes. What you have to say when thousands of muslims where killed during Hamas & Fatah's confilict? Why protest on Israel & not these incidents? What you have to say when Hamas entered the mosque, killed muslims & degraded Quran? Why are muslim womens burned & killed by their husbands & their is no one to save them? Why is their war in South Waziristan? Why does Taliban & Alqaeda kill muslims in Iraq, Afghanistan & Pakistan? Why you fools have to jump to hatred against the west? Are all muslims in unity in east????? What is Kashmir? What you have to say when America saved you holy country Saudia Arabia from Iraq?

Again from this little examples it has been proven that you all muslims are a bunch of Hypocrities.

Adam said...

Hi Ashraf and other readers
happy to see you. I was on vacation, did not have internet access. I had been to military camp for combat terror training program, organised by Force 24x7. In other words preparing to fight you Muslim I mean Terrorist.
Thank you for your comment regarding my 5th point.
5)“ what about Paul saying lying for Christ, he rejoices” I would like to know this from Muslims, Christian and others. Where, Why, What, When and How did St.Paul lied for Jesus Christ.
Also thank you for highlighting the verses regarding WHERE
Now I am waiting to know WHY, WHAT, WHEN, HOW St. Paul lied. I would like to know more about these verses from muslim and non muslim, as I think there is a good explanation.

I personally don’t think St Paul was a liar. But whom he preached the good news about our Lord, I mean the Jews and pagans thought he was a liar. This is very relevant in today in our modern world. Many want to see miracles and many want Logic to accept Christ.

Adam said...

Ashraf Bahi this what I said

"Remember many muslims are not of an intellectual class"

Where did I mean to say ALL christians in india are intelligent Or ALL Christian in India are intelligent people. But I can tell you for sure Christians work hard in My country to create Intellectual who are future of India and the World. Unlike islam who are creating future terrorists.
Ashraf Bhai, you could ask you self why do we all hear always Muslim in illegal activities, Rape, Murder, Gang war, drug peddling, Extortion and the list goes on and on… this things happens in my city

“please tell your christians to evacuate occuppied muslims countries and stop manufacturing hi tech weapons” your last statement is typical Friday sermon from your mosque. This is the proof that you muslims are of not Intellectual class. After your Friday namaz you go out with hate and greet people peace be with you. I have been hearing such sermon since Long

So USA and UK is Christian that is what you mean, dear Ashraf M.N.I.B.P.H. (Muslim by Name Indian by Birth Pakistani by Heart). I have always seen USA as a friends of Muslims. They helped you muslims against my country, during the cold war. When Christians are tortured and killed by you muslims in your muslims countries, USA never helps.
Now regarding the WAR, I had been activity involved during my college days against the war In Iraq and Afghanistan. There were also people of other faiths, Who saw this war as unjust and unfair occupation by USA. We never saw any religious reasons behind these wars. Unlike muslim who gave it a religious reason. To gain support you muslim make use of islam to spread hate. Now the real reason for the US occupation is Oil, I mean petrol or Gasoline and stratigic control of regions.

Do you know Ashraf, you Muslims are such vampires and cause of all evil in India. Do you know you muslims control the oil business. India’s major import is OIL. You vampires are not allowing the oil pipeline from Iran to India. Once the pipeline resumes, you muslim may go into major loss in Shipping other activities. So please tell them stop sucking others blood to keep their selves healthy like vampires.

Unlike muslim, I am a Indian First and Christian later. For centuries you Muslims invaded My mother land (India), looted here, raped her, tortured her and cut her into parts and made Pakistan. Now If time comes we will fight you muslims in our seas, on our Land and in our Skys and These days also on internet.

Afghanistan, the land where all invaders entered India including Alexander the great. You know what you muslim did to The Hindu Afghanistan.

Several books by Islamic historians including Tarikh -I-Guzida of Hamdu-lla-Mustaufi, Towareekh Yumny, as well as Ferishta record the Hindu King of the Ghorians Suri was attacked by Mahmud of Ghazni and the Hindu population converted to Islam by Him.
“Sultan Mahumud now went to fight with the Ghorians, who were infidels at that time. Suri, their chief, was killed in this war, and his son was taken prisoner; but dreading the Sultan's vengeance, he killed himself by sucking poison which he had kept under the stone of his ring. The country of Ghor was annexed to that of the Sultan, and the population thereof converted to Islam. He now attacked the fort of Bhim, where was a temple of the Hindus”.

Dear readers more historic notes on Islamic Invasion in India will be posted

Hope you Muslim remember the Hindu King Shivaji Maharaj, Prithvi Raj Chauhan, the great Sikh gurus like Sri Guru Gobind Singh. (Dear Westerner, If you meet a Sikh ask him Why Sikhism Religion was formed). These great Men challenged you Invaders (Muslim)

Dear Terrorist, may Force 24x7 be with you.
Vande Mataram
Jai Hind
Bharat Mata Ki Jai
Long Live India Long Live Israel

thegrandverbalizer19 said...

I think Adam's comments sound more reasonable. In fact it would be wise if Wood were to distance himself from both White and Shamoun in the future. 1) Because of the extremely foul mouth and nastiness that has been recorded in e-mail and voice exchanges. Besides Shamoun is not even his real name he is using you (David Wood) to piggy back to fame! He used Pal Talk for years to 'field test' arguments. He's a very nervous public speaker.

2)James white failed in both his debates with Shabir Ally, is running from Bob Ross on Regeneration before faith issues, did horrible against Ehrman, and is a glory hound with a past of issues. Notice he doesn't allow comments on his blog or you-tube? It's not a dialogue it's a monologue.

The fact that his sister Patricia Bonds who converted to the Catholic Church is dealt with in a very distant way by a spirit filled Christian (James White)after she reveals that she and possibly James were molested by her father (who is a pastor) is very telling indeed!

http://art-of-attack.blogspot.com/2009/04/blessed-are-you-when-men-hate-you.html < That is right! James White sister is a convert to the Catholic Church and has revealed that she was molested by James father!

I'm begging you now before everyone to heed these words! I'm glad you banned that very sick looking sadistic picture that used to comment on here. The BDSM picture of the woman covered in blood! I don't know how the spirit of Christ didn't move your soul to act sooner on this.

Any way dump Shamoun keep a distance from James.
Wood and Jay Smith those are the guys with the credibility and the ability to get the job done.
Shape up David!