France generously brought millions of Muslims to its lovely country. The Muslims thanked France by turning it into the countries they were fleeing from. I suspect it's too late for France to turn things around. But it's not too late for the rest of us to take note.
And now I'll ask the Muslims who are going to comment here: How are you going to stop this from happening in the UK, Canada, and the US, when Muslim numbers rise?
As in past posts Muslims will tell us, these people do not follow the dictates of Islam, so my question is this:
"Please inform us NON Muslims, which Islamic group, which Islamic Govt is in fact demonstrating the correct aspects/teachings/dictates of Islam?"
I feel this may help the discussion if we can have a benchmark from where to start our discussions regarding Islam and how Muslims follow the dictates of Islam.
I am really looking forward to hearing some thoughts by Muslims. Please only respond to this in a polite manner, ie: no calling me an idot or calling for my head to be chopped off etc etc as i only wish to open an honest, level dialog.
Of all the events that i saw in th Video, there must have been some events that angered muslims. After all Muhammed pbuh did say the best one is he who controls his anger.
You raised a good point aussie christian. Theres some islamic countries that claim they follow sharia, or muslims who have islam written all over them, but you only need to read a book to see what is islam and what is the actions of a muslim. The same goes for Christianity.
I dont see islam in many muslim countries. But however it is proving my faith true with every bomb that goes off, with every threat, with every scandal etc.
WomanforTruth said: "I dont see islam in many muslim countries. But however it is proving my faith true with every bomb that goes off, with every threat, with every scandal etc."
You have to love Islam. If a Muslim is peaceful, it's clear proof that Islam is true. If a Muslim is violent, it's clear proof that Islam is true. No matter what happens, it's clear proof that Islam is true. What we have here is either (1) a religion so amazing that it is confirmed by everything, or (2) a religion that is confirmed by absolutely nothing, forcing its adherents to appeal to all kinds of things in a desperate attempt to defend the indefensible.
I agree that many videos showing Muslims being violent shock and anger many Muslims. You also say,
"I dont see islam in many muslim countries".
But sorry to sound badgering or dogging you, that still doesn't answer my question, " which Islamic group, which Islamic Govt is in fact demonstrating the correct aspects/teachings/dictates of Islam?".
My problem is simple, if I cannot be shown an Islamic group or govt demonstrating Islam as it is suppose to be, the only example I have is what i read in these blogs, examples I see in the news, etc etc.
So as I asked earlier, can you please name for all of us, which Islamic group or govt is showing the world how Islam is suppose to be followed.
Eagerly awaiting your clear and precise answer including Name of group/s or Govt/s, and your explination of why they show us the example of how Islam is to be followed.
Oh and before i forget, thankyou so much for your wonderfully polite answer to my first question. And I do hope you and your Muslim friends see that my question is in no way trying to offend or cause an argument.
WomanForTruth101 saide: «Of all the events that i saw in th Video, there must have been some events that angered muslims»...
sure... muslims arounde the worlde only commite barbaric actions when they are provoqued... sure... who's so naïffe to belibe in such a lie? whate can justify these barbaric actions? who can bee so mentaly intoxicated to think so?...
she (?!?) also saide: «but you only need to read a book to see what is islam and what is the actions of a muslim»... are you talkin aboutte some sorte off ignorante book from some ignorante author like Karen Armstrong or aboutte the qur'an? iff you're talking aboutte the previous, I wonte eben bother to answer since she has been totally discredited; aboutt the latter it's the same: the qur'an is the most ville and violentte religious booke arounde...
she (?!?) also saide: «Theres some islamic countries that claim they follow sharia»... why do these westernized and "christianized" muslims do sai that the real islam only exists in the west and nott in the countryes were there are no exterior or interior pressure nott to behave againstt the core message off islam? hummm...
p.s.: insted off saing vague things you could, WomanForTruth101, say whate are these persons doing against islam...
Notice also Doctor Wood, that it must be someone else's fault to anger these Muslims. I love how they are such responsible members of society.
Hmmm,I don't like to say it but technically speaking,as far as I know,NO single Muslim organization ANYWHERE,not even in the West,would correspond to Womanfortruth's concept of true Islam.
LET ME EXPLAIN
Every single Muslim intellectual and organization,EVEN in the West,which should be the perfect place for true Islam to flourish,with its open society,continues with the illogical argument the "Islamophobia" is bad.
Islamophobia is simply criticism of Mohammed and the Koran.To punish somebody for it(like they want to)is to go against our freedom of speech.WHY?
Because "Islam" is only a set of IDEAS,not a person,you can speak against ideas,freedom of expression.
So Muslims will see the logic.Many atheists have written against Christianity,I have read their books:Christopher Hitchens,Michel Onfray,Dawkings,Dennet,RICHARD CARRIER.
TAKE THEM TO COURT?
Have WE said that they are guilty of CHRISTIANITYPHOBIA?Are we trying to have them silenced and punished?No.Would Ehteshaam agree that CARRIER be punished legally for CHRISTIANITYPHOBIA?No.
WHAT WE HAVE DONE
Instead we have written books to express why we disagree,there have been debates.Only that.See how the Muslim intellectual stance regarding Islamophobia is bankrupt,it is ANTI-RATIONAL.
WomanforTruth said "Of all the events that i saw in th[sic] Video, there must have been some events that angered muslims."
My question to you is, when are you going to stop pointing the fingers at other people and take responsibility for the actions of your Ummah? I mean, not in every situation is it the faul of the "kuffar." So please stop playing these childish games and man up. Have the courage to condemn WRONG actions when you see them, whether they be from "kuffar" or Muslims.
Not only that Royal Son, but they get angered to easily, for some reason. Matter of fact, it’s not just anger, it’s more outrage! I guess that is the effect that kaafirs like us have on the Muslim community. Because in Iraq, yesterday, there were two bombings. Damage: 136 MUSLIMS DEAD and more than 500 injured. Not a single Muslim seems to be bothered with that. Maybe because Muslims did it? Oh… let me guess… that is not true Islam, right? The religion is being hijacked, correct?
And these guys genuinely wonder why people aren't susceptive of Islam and even hate it with a passion. You must really be clueless in order not to understand that by now.
Muslims in France are suffering from much discremination. They are getting marignalized, and even the headscarf is being fought by the French government.
The intellectual level of this web site is becoming worthless. The stupidity blended with extreme hatred towards Muslims and Islam are too obvious by most christians on this site's threads.
AS TO WHY THE FRENCH BROUGHT IN MUSLIMS in their lands, the following are the answers:
1- Muslims are very intelligent. In my family, every single one of us has at least a Bachelor Degree. Most of the Muslims who work in the West are highly educated professionals. After the joke of 9/11, Islam all of the sudden now is becoming the world's biggest threat? It is beyond obvious that the Masonic Jews are using the christians **********LIKE TOILET PAPERS EVERYWHERE AND EVERYTIME.******** There is no Islamic threat. 9/11 was done by the Mosanic Jews and the american angelical christians are just too stupid to see it.
2- France needs the Muslim world very bad to market its products. The North African Arab countries buy mainly French products. But France now decided to become like Great Britain, another tail for the US rabid dog that is run today by the Jewish Free Masons. I'll just call Britain the ass of the USA for better allignment, because a dog couldn't have two tails, at least not to my knowledge. One of them as to be the ass, and I believe Britain makes the better ass than Sarkozi's France today. The Arab dictators, as one journalist called them on Aljazeera, are the shoes and the toilet papers of the USA.
So, this is why France has Muslims in it. It simply needed them, and it needed to build its economy and market. And the Muslims in the West are VERY HIGHLY EDUCATED, AND ARE THE LEAST TO CAUSE ANY TROUBLE. Aside from the terrorism lies that get glued on us, we really don't cause any trouble or threat to any person in the West. It is the christians who have the highest drugs, gangs, violence, prostitution, pornography, and a rising AIDS problems, to name a few.
SIMPLY PUT: THE CHRISTIANS ARE THE BIGGEST TRASH AND LOSERS in the christian world. Not the Muslims. The Muslim citizen in the West is far better than millions of christians in the West. He is successful, pays his taxes, works a professional career, has a family, and is living a peaceful life. Your Masonic lords had to create the 9/11 lie to ruin our high status. They must've had too much diarria that they had to use their christian toilet papers to wipe their asses with by sending them to a false war and lie to die for them.
Okay, we hear you; so you don't like toilet paper very much. But may I ask why you compare us all to toilet paper instead of to the left hand of faithful Muslims? It seems to me that the latter would be a more derogatory way of referring to us from your perspective (not to mention ours, at least for those of us who know about your bathroom behavior), and it is clear that you want to be very derogatory.
To Osama Abdullah:
"Aside from the terrorism lies that get glued on us".
Do you deny the exists of terrorist groups(that think they follow the sharia&Islam) out there ?
"And the Muslims in the West are VERY HIGHLY EDUCATED, AND ARE THE LEAST TO CAUSE ANY TROUBLE."
Nobody denies that there are many(lots and lots) of muslims in the West that are simple, working men and women that bring a plus to everything.
Even David Wood said in a debate with Shadeed Lewis(Is Islam a religion of peace ?) that many muslims in West are good, peaceful people.
But what concern us the christians is the fact that this(good, peaceful muslims) is a sleeping giant whom one day will raise up as we can see that it(the gaint) raised up in France.
You could deny this as much as you like, but you must admit that Islam has a bloody history.
What makes the difference from the muslim world and christian world(Considering that but had bloody chapters in their history) ?
Christianity doesn't aprove violence in anyway(defending your country isn't violence).
While Islam always had a bloody history(genocide after genocide:
70-Pakistan 3 million dead people)
"Your Masonic lords had to create the 9/11 lie to ruin our high status. "
Let's admit for a second that it's true that Masons ordered the 9/11.
The question is: What did the good muslims from the muslims countries did ?
They REJOICED. They SONG SONGS. They PARTY ALL NIGHT.
Is that OK ?
While we christians through Red Cross and others we've helped a lot of people.
May God bring us to his light.
"Muslims in France are suffering from much discremination. They are getting marignalized, and even the headscarf is being fought by the French government."
is this so!? poor muslims :( the french r abt to ban burqa too. shame on them.
fyi france is the most SECULAR country of europe. u bragged abt ur education here. well check once again what being secular means.
"Most of the Muslims who work in the West are highly educated professionals."
LMAO r u kidding me!? u clean toilets here, have "10" kids and live off a state welfare, prisons r full with u... to cut the long story short ur into kebab making and not into intellectual fields. i mean majority of u. not all.
10% of france is muslim. 60% of french prisoners r muslims. such a great contribution :)
do u wanna hear how the situation looks 4 other european countries?
" But France now decided to become like Great Britain, another tail for the US rabid dog that is run today by the Jewish Free Masons. I'll just call Britain the ass of the USA for better allignment, because a dog couldn't have two tails, at least not to my knowledge. "
hey if u dont like how things in europe look like, feel free to flee to saudi arabia or some other heaven on earth 4 u. we wont miss u here. thats 4 sure.
From what I know of Islam in France,and I have read the books of many of their Muslim intellectuals,they all,even the most liberal,continue with the illogicality of "Islamophobia is bad."
They say 80% of France's Muslims are non-religious,they don't go to the mosque or only a few times a year.Yet the great majority of those "integrated","modern","secular" people continue to believe the idea that they were brainwashed with as children that "Islamophobia is bad."
Even the non-practicing Muslims believe Mohammed was a real prophet and the Koran is the word of God.And they believe in HELL.
The KEY word here is HELL.The non-practicing Muslims hope that they will make it to heaven on good deeds somehow even if they don't practice Islam much.
So that is why they so easily agree with SANCTIONS against those who criticize Mohammed and the Koran.They know 100% it goes against freedom of speech,a human right.
But since Islam is the true religion then if non-Muslims create DOUBTS in the minds of Muslims by their counter-arguments the following will happen:
Many Muslims would leave Islam and go to HELL.
THE CONTRARY IS OK
But it is ok to argue freely against Paul and Christianity,full exercise of freedom of speech.Since they are 100% convinced(even the non-religious Muslims) that Christianity is false,then weakening makes it possible for others to even convert to Islam and thus escape hell.
That is why it is so difficult for even secular Western Muslims to accept what comes so easily to all non-Muslims:complete freedom of religion(including the right to leave one) and freedom of speech.It all comes down to theology and the idea of hell as being very real.
Osama, I suggest you leave this blog. You have nothing to offer us here. You are past reasonable discussion.
In minute 2:14, it looks to me that this is a picture of a christian thug muging a white woman. You know, christian blacks VS christian whites usual scenarios in the West.
OH I FORGOT, IT IS ISLAM'S FAULT!
And, much of the rioters were also non-Muslims. There are many christians from Africa and Latin America in France. Why should you count them as Muslims?
LOL, the desperate polytheist trinitarian pagans never cease to amaze me about how TRULY DESPERATE AND RIDICULOUS THEY ARE! Truly, you are the true followers of satan, and your whole history is filled with lies, conspiracies, colonizations, fabrications, terrorism, and much war mongering and blood shed, ********IRONICALLY, EVEN MOSTLY AGAINST EACH OTHERS! This is why you always slaughter each others by the mass and plot conspiracies against each others by the mass.
DAVID WOOD QUOTE ME ON THIS:
TRULY, JEWS AND CHRISTIANS ARE INDEED, BY THE ABSOLUTE FARTHEST, THE FILTHIEST SCUMS OF ALL HUMANS ON PLANET EARTH, with the exception of few who were promised Paradise by Allah Almighty!
Visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_in_islam.htm to see how Allah Almighty's description of the jews and christians, with the exception of few, is perfectly accurate and indeed is Miraculous in the Glorious Quran.
osama. seriously. ur statements r sick. ur such a vile person. still, at least u dont belong to those muslims who think that quran flatters us and jews when it calls us the ppl of the book. quite opposite, quran and allah hate us, lie abt our beliefs and call us names. and amazingly 20% of the world think that this comes from god. lmao if god exists , all mankind r his children and not only good muslims. duh
The Global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,000, or 20% of the world population. They received the following Nobel Prizes:
1988 - Najib Mahfooz.
1978 - Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat
1994 - Yasser Arafat
1990 - Elias James Corey
1999 - Ahmed Zewail
1960 - Peter Brian Medawar
1998 - Ferid Mourad
Total Muslim Nobelists = 7
The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000 or
about 0.02% of the world population. They received the following Nobel Prizes:
1910 - Paul Heyse
1927 - Henri Bergson
1958 - Boris Pasternak
1966 - Shmuel Yosef Agnon
1966 - Nelly Sachs
1976 - Saul Bellow
1978 - Isaac Bashevis Singer
1981 - Elias Canetti
1987 - Joseph Brodsky
1991 - Nadine Gordimer World
1911 - Alfred Fried
1911 - Tobias Michael Carel Asser
1968 - Rene Cassin
1973 - Henry Kissinger
1978 - Menachem Begin
1986 - Elie Wiesel
1994 - Shimon Peres
1994 - Yitzhak Rabin
1905 - Adolph Von Baeyer
1906 - Henri Moissan
1910 - Otto Wallach
1915 - Richard Willstaetter
1918 - Fritz Haber
1943 - George Charles de Hevesy
1961 - Melvin Calvin
1962 - Max Ferdinand Perutz
1972 - William Howard Stein
1977 - Ilya Prigogine
1979 - Herbert Charles Brown
1980 - Paul Berg
1980 - Walter Gilbert
1981 - Roald Hoffmann
1982 - Aaron Klug
1985 - Albert A. Hauptman
1985 - Jerome Karle
1986 - Dudley R. Herschbach
1988 - Robert Huber
1989 - Sidney Altman
1992 - Rudolph Marcus
2000 - Alan J. Heeger
1970 - Paul Anthony Samuelson
1971 - Simon Kuznets
1972 - Kenneth Joseph Arrow
1975 - Leonid Kantorovich
1976 - Milton Friedman
1978 - Herbert A. Simon
1980 - Lawrence Robert Klein
1985 - Franco Modigliani
1987 - Robert M. Solow
1990 - Harry Markowitz
1990 - Merton Miller
1992 - Gary Becker
1993 - Robert Fogel
1908 - Elie Metchnikoff
1908 - Paul Erlich
1914 - Robert Barany
1922 - Otto Meyerhof
1930 - Karl Landsteiner
1931 - Otto Warburg
1936 - Otto Loewi
1944 - Joseph Erlanger
1944 - Herbert Spencer Gasser
1945 - Ernst Boris Chain
1946 - Hermann Joseph Muller
1950 - Tadeus Reichstein
1952 - Selman Abraham Waksman
1953 - Hans Krebs
1953 - Fritz Albert Lipmann
1958 - Joshua Lederberg
1959 - Arthur Kornberg
1964 - Konrad Bloch
1965 - Francois Jacob
1965 - Andre Lwoff
1967 - George Wald
1968 - Marshall W. Nirenberg
1969 - Salvador Luria
1970 - Julius Axelrod
1970 - Sir Bernard Katz
1972 - Gerald Maurice Edelman
1975 - Howard Martin Temin
1976 - Baruch S. Blumberg
1977 - Roselyn Sussman Yalow
1978 - Daniel Nathans
1980 - Baruj Benacerraf
1984 - Cesar Milstein
1985 - Michael Stuart Brown
1985 - Joseph L. Goldstein
1986 - Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini]
1988 - Gertrude Elion
1989 - Harold Varmus
1991 - Erwin Neher
1991 - Bert Sakmann
1993 - Richard J. Roberts
1993 - Phillip Sharp
1994 - Alfred Gilman
1995 - Edward B. Lewis
1907 - Albert Abraham Michelson
1908 - Gabriel Lippmann
1921 - Albert Einstein
1922 - Niels Bohr
1925 - James Franck
1925 - Gustav Hertz
1943 - Gustav Stern
1944 - Isidor Issac Rabi
1952 - Felix Bloch
1954 - Max Born
1958 - Igor Tamm
1959 - Emilio Segre
1960 - Donald A. Glaser
1961 - Robert Hofstadter
1962 - Lev Davidovich Landau
1965 - Richard Phillips Feynman
1965 - Julian Schwinger
1969 - Murray Gell-Mann
1971 - Dennis Gabor
1973 - Brian David Josephson
1975 - Benjamin Mottleson
1976 - Burton Richter
1978 - Arno Allan Penzias
1978 - Peter L Kapitza
1979 - Stephen Weinberg
1979 - Sheldon Glashow
1988 - Leon Lederman
1988 - Melvin Schwartz
1988 - Jack Steinberger
1990 - Jerome Friedman
1995 - Martin Perl
Total Jewish Nobelists = 128
i wouldnt underestimate jews if i were u. only 7 nobelists with all that science in th quran!? cccc
Because in Iraq, yesterday, there were two bombings. Damage: 136 MUSLIMS DEAD and more than 500 injured. Not a single Muslim seems to be bothered with that. Maybe because Muslims did it? Oh… let me guess… that is not true Islam, right? The religion is being hijacked, correct?
OK well I should start off by telling once again, christians WILL ignore as much as they can about the muslim media, which openly condemn extremist acts.
Another thing I dont understand, besides christians insulting our faith for muslims getting killed by extremists, is that they litteraly need for us to take their hand and show them what Islam is. I wonder how many times they've visited islamic sites? Lectures? Or islamic newspapers?
I wonder how many times they've shoved ignorance aside and taken time to watch islamic channels with muslim programing?
Chances are extremely low.
Nakdimon, may i have a verse or hadith (go ahead, give me any of the 5000 unreliable ones) that justifies al-queda or taliban's actions against muslims?
WomenforTruth (or Ali) asked: «may i have a verse or hadith that justifies al-queda or taliban's actions against muslims?»...
well... anyone who cooperates withe the enimies off islam (the afhegan people due to its connection withe the aphgan governement; the pakistany people due to its connection withe the pakistany governement; and so on) his considered an enimy off islam even iff its a muslim person because he has become a disbeliever[just see, for instance whate Abdul Latif bin Abdur Rahman bin Hassan Aal-Sheikh says aboutte this: "Whomsoever helps the disbelievers or brings them to the country of Ahl Al-Islam, then that person is clearly an apostate" Ad-Durrar 8/326... or "Anybody who supports the kuffar in their kufr, or (supports them) against Muslims, then they are a kaffir" Sheikh Ibn Tamiyyah: Majamou Al-Fatawa]...
do you know, WomenforTruth (or Ali), whate is a sillogism? There you have, in the one I juste presented, the chain off reasoning al-queda or taliban, being true muslims as they are, use to justify their actions based on the qur'an and the hadiths (eben outside off the so supposed unreliable ones)... eben you, I guess, will bee hable to find these...
butt iff islam is so great why do you, WomenforTruth (or Ali), do not ask yourself why do muslims are allowed to kill non muslims?
Regarding Islam again.I don't like to say it but the Muslim arguments are often incomplete.I mean,for example:
THERE IS USULLY A "CONDITION" IN THE KORAN:
The KEY word is CONDITION:
FREEDOM FOR ALL SLAVES
It was argued that Islam is against slavery,yet there is a verse that says to free a slave but with a CONDITION,if you think he is good enough.That does not make the Koran be for the freedom of ALL.
SPIRITUAL JIHAD AS GREATER
Not having to do with the Koran,but the argument that Mohammed considered SPIRITUAL struggle (jihad) to be the GREATER jihad is in a WEAK hadith.In other words it's highly improbable.And Muslim apologists should NOT keep it a secret from non-Muslims who know little of Islam and TRUST them.I don't like to say it but it is dissumulation,taqiya.
BE KIND TO WOMEN
There are 2 verses in the Koran that say to be kind to women yet we also have the one authorizing a husband to hit her if he "fears disobedience".It is CONDITIONAL.
There is the story than an Arab told SALADIN to make peace with the Crusaders because they desired it.That in the Koran we have:"If they incline to PEACE then seek peace ALSO(sura 8:61)"
Muslim people show this and say Islam is not aggressive,that the sura 9 order to fight the "people of the Book"(Christians and Jews) is CONDITIONAL.If there is negociation then they have to STOP fighting.
There is that condition.But SALADIN answered the Arab:"You are an Arab,and I am a Kurd,so you should know the Koran better than me,because it ALSO says (Note:here is another CONDITION):
"Why seek for PEACE if you have the ADVANTAGE and Allah is with you,and he will not bring your deeds to nothing(sura 47:35)".
Again the acceptance of peace is CONDITIONAL:if the enemy wants it AND if you do NOT have the upper hand,if the MUSLIM is NOT in a weaker position.
Otherwise continue fighting.And that is what the terrorists intend to do,no matter how many negociations are done.I ask,why do Muslim apologists not speak of all this and about such CONDITIONAL verses?Answer:they would make Islam look bad.
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