Monday, September 21, 2009

Christian Couple Arrested for Expressing their Beliefs

In July, we posted a video discussing a trend in the UK wherein free speech is declining as Muslims constitute a greater percentage of the population. I asked the question "Will this pattern continue?" So far, the answer is "definitely yes."

In England, A Christian couple was arrested for having a conversation about their religious beliefs with Muslims. The arrest was prompted by a Muslim woman in the conversation who was offended by the couple's beliefs. Just what did they discuss? Here is a snippet found in The Telegraph:

It is understood that among the topics debated was whether Jesus was a minor prophet, as Islam teaches, or whether he was the Son of God, as Christianity teaches.

Among the things Mr Vogelenzang, 53, is alleged to have said is that Mohammad was a warlord. His wife, 54, is said to have stated that Muslim dress is a form of bondage for women.

The conversation, on March 20, was reported by the woman to Merseyside Police. Officers told the couple that they wanted to interview them over the incident.

After being questioned on April 20, they were interrogated again three months later before being charged on July 29 with a religiously-aggravated public order offence. They appeared in court on August 14 and are now awaiting trial.

If defending Jesus' deity will send me to jail, or if informing my Muslim friends about the true Muhammad will send me to jail, then throw some chains on my feet and a smile on my face, I'll go there praising God.

Ladies and gentlemen, now is the time to stand up for our freedoms. Let's do it by using them.


IslamSINS said...

Php 1:9-21 "And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment, so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ; having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God. Now I want you to know, brethren, that my circumstances have turned out for the greater progress of the gospel, so that my imprisonment in the cause of Christ has become well known throughout the whole praetorian guard and to everyone else, and that most of the brethren, trusting in the Lord because of my imprisonment, have far more courage to speak the word of God without fear. Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will; the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel; the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice, yes, and I will rejoice. For I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayers and the provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, according to my earnest expectation and hope, that I will not be put to shame in anything, but that with all boldness, Christ will even now, as always, be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain."

Still, I can nearly feel my lunch coming up to see the once, former, "Great" Britain, bowing their knees to the Ba'al worshipers of Muhammad.

Radical Moderate said...

Like I said in the previous post, if your a Chritian living in Great Britin, you need to stay at this Bead and Breakfast at least one night a month.

Fernando said...

Hei (I' listenning to sume muslims friends arounde here laughing in the background off this notice and I'll trie to gibe them voice ober this issue...) this is multiculturalism and globalization! Why on earthe are Christians being persucuted, judged, emprisioned and killed in muslim countries and thate does not happen in wester countryes? Thate can not bee...

Radical Moderate said...

It sounds like this Couple had a pretty good buisness a nich market.

It wouldnt surprise me to find out that either the muslim woman either owned or was working for a competing buisness and this is a way to drive the competition out of buisness.

Or this woman either wants to own or works for someone who wants to own this particular buisness.

This is economic Jihad at its finest.

For those muslims who say I'm being paranoid. This does happen in lovely islamic paradises like Kraptakistan. Where if you accuse kaffir of Blasphemy you his property.

Unknown said...

Zakir Naik...New at the Deen Show...Would be great if you could shoot him down with a video respond..

Take care People....Missing some debates..

minoria said...

Now what would be the reaction of the typical non-Muslim(like I once was)who knows little of Islam?My thought would be:"The Muslim is a fanatic."

My second thought would be:"They called Mohammed a warlord.Is it true?And if so then why should the Muslim be surprised that a non-Muslim should have a negative opinion of Mohammed?"

My third thought:"And if not true then why not just explain it to them and forget it?"


All the Western governments shout FINALLY pass a legal ruling saying that ISLAMOPHOBIA is in no way a crime.That would settle once and for all the whole nonsense.

It is as illogical to consider Islamophobia a crime as it is to consider Hinduismophobia,Atheismophobia,Judaismophobia,Buddhsimophobia crimes.

What has happened to Western intellectuals?Where is all their intelligence?Can't they see they are the laughingstock of future generations?

Adam said...


News from Pakistan


GOJRA Christians massacre was due to hate announcements from Mosques A Shocking Report

Paijo Budi said...

This is probably off topic. Muslim leaders in the country (Indonesia) told us many times that Sharia only applies to Muslims. This link says that in the implementation this is not true. Well, probably they different "law of contradiction" which is not law of contradiction.

Dk said...

Adam that second link is a waste of time, no translation no subtitles, no english.

Paijo Budi said...

Ooops. I should have written: Well, probably use they different "law of contradiction" which is not law of contradiction.

Unknown said...

Good afternoon,

This is my first and last post in this blog. Its existence was mentioned to me by a friend. I was totally surprised to see that Mr. Ehteshaam Gulam is trying to convey the idea that he’s some sort of a scholar. He is no such thing. I had the privilege to study with him at the Eastern Michigan University and I know what I’m talking. He is a bellow average student with no real academic capacities whatsoever. Yes he’s well noticed due to his unorthodox remarks, but he has not achieved anything significant in the years he stayed here. As a matter of fact he expressed, many times, the intention to leave EMU due to the fact some teachers did not agree with is positions that he never could defend, but rather simply present those in a dogmatic fashion like: things are the way I say because it’s me saying them. I’m not a believer. I’m an agnostic. I’m trying to be impartial about these subjects, but I really get annoyed when someone makes him(her)self pretend to be what he(she) is not.

Thanks for your attention.

minoria said...

Fellows,that is not all.You have all probably heard of AL-ANDALUS,when the Muslims ruled Spain.It is often talked of as though it was a Golden Age of Muslim-Jewish-Christian relations.Muslim leaders say it is an "example" for us today.


There are many facts about it that show it is not so.Unfortunately sincere Muslims are DUPED by their own Muslim intellectuals and believe it.Plus non-Muslims who never research,but think:"Since it comes from a Muslim intellectual it must be true."(Note:usually the Western journalists who never double-check because of naivete or slothfulness)


AVERROES was the greatest thinker produced by the Muslim world so far.Personally I believe it is clear he did NOT believe in Islam.He said the resurrection of the dead in the Koran was not physical.

The Koran says the contrary.Anyway,he certainly knew denying even one detail of it meant the Koran has an error,and so is not from God.By the way,he was persecuted by the Muslims.


He was also a jurist,expert on Islamic law and wrote on it.He says very clearly that apostates should be killed because Mohammed said to kill them.

Did HE believe that also?Hard to tell.He could have just been saying what he wanted his readers to hear.Or maybe at the time he did believe it but later no.


Why don't the Muslim intellectuals in the West who talk so much about Al-Andalus mention THAT?Because it would shock the non-Muslims.


He was the greatest Jewish philospher of the Middle Ages.He was PERSECUTED by the Muslims and had to flee Spain,only for being Jewish(but the Muslim intellectuals don't tell you that).He found refuge in Egypt,then so-so tolerant.HE in his writings calls Mohammed a MESHUGA(Hebrew for crazy man).He also condemned Jesus.Why don't the Muslim intellectuals say MAIMONIDES had a low opinion of Islam?Becuase it is not to their advantage.

Adam said...


I tried searching for English news..unfortunately No International or National English news Channel have carried these true stories.

If you really want to know what they are saying I will translate.

any ways the other video The Christian leader was twell that this was a well planned and oraganise hate crime, which was propagated in a local mosque. To which many Local muslim said they hd no idea of who they were. The Muslom neighbours House was not damaged a bit.


Adam said...


Are you a Muslim of Pakastani Indonesiian or Arab origin ?

Please donot carry the same act like muslim in Pakistan.


Bfoali said...

Nabeel guess what? I had a dream you came and had dinner at my house pretty intersting huh ??

Thought I would share that...

minoria said...

Concerning the whole Al-Andalus thing again.What is so depressing is the general lack of seriousness among Muslim intellectuals.Every other culture has serious self-criticism(Chinese intellectuals about theirs,Indian intellectuals,Western,etc.)


Self-criticism means honestly admitting that some things are myths and propaganda.But when you read BOOK after BOOK about Islam written by Muslims where they never mention things like the devshirme system,white slavery,that all the women in the harem were non-Muslim and it was allowed by the Koran,what Maimonides really thought of Mohammed,about the 50 Christian martyrs to freedom of religion in Cordoba,etc,then you see that they are interested not in real CULTURAL DIALOGUE but in maintaining a facade.


Muslims are taught that they are the best of peoples,that Islam is the most rational religion.So the most rational religion (at least to Western Muslims)should be COMPATIBLE with human rights and the MODERN WORLD.

That is why you see Muslim intellectuals in the West trying to make Westerners believe Islam in its Golden Age was an example for all humanity.I believe there is alot of the HONOR SYSTEM here.The HONOR of ISLAM is more important than the historical reality.


You see that often when Muslim intellectuals are confronted with such facts.Instead of simply saying "Al-Andalus as an example of a PLURALISTIC SOCIETY of EQUALITY is a myth"then they point to negative aspects in Western history.That is not serious dialogue.

Radical Moderate said...

Colleen thanks for your input. However speaking just for me, I can say that we pretty much figured that out about Ethshaam a long time ago.

You say your a agnostic well I hope you stick around and learn about Christ and the dangers of islam.

minoria said...

Hello Colleen:

Well,I suppose you were referring maybe to political or social positions held by Ehteshaam with his professors.I don't think they had to do with religion.Since I don't know what they were I would have to withhold,for the moment,any thoughts on the matter on my part.

However I do find that he has several times apologized for sarcastic remarks he made about others in this blog,and quickly,so that is a great characteristic.It shows the ability to see where an error might exist.And I hope he never loses that quality.


Changing to another subject,on SEPT 24th,NONIE DARWISH and IBN WARRAQ(who wrote "Why I am not a Muslim") created,with others,FORMER MUSLIMS UNITED.


To create an awareness and get protection for ex-Muslims in the WEST.They have sent a message to 50 MUSLIM LEADERS for them to sign,supporting the rights of apostates.If they are serious about human rights they will sign.But even if they do sign there is the possibility of TAQIYA(remember the case of TARIQ RAMADAN,a "moderate" Muslim,and the most famous Muslim intellectual in the West.).