Thursday, April 30, 2009

Nadir Ahmed, Ahmed Deedat, and the Curse of God

As we've seen, Nadir Ahmed claims that Allah struck Shabir Ally's son blind because Shabir believes that Jesus was nailed to a cross. It's clear to everyone that Nadir is attacking Shabir because of envy and jealousy. Yet Nadir maintains that he is simply being consistent. That is, since he gladly declares that people like me have been cursed by Allah, he must be consistent and claim that people like Shabir have also been cursed.

So which explanation of Nadir's horrendous actions is correct? Is Nadir attacking Shabir out of envy? Or is he attacking Shabir because he wants to be consistent?

There is a simple way to prove that Nadir is acting from jealousy, and it has been noted by two contributors in our comments section (one Christian and one Muslim). If Nadir is really consistent, he will have to proclaim that Ahmed Deedat was also cursed by God. Deedat, like Shabir Ally, embraced Swoon Theory and helped popularize it among Muslims. In 1996, Deedat suffered a stroke that left him paralyzed and unable to speak or swallow for the rest of his life.

Is Nadir willing to say that Deedat was cursed by Allah? Of course not. Even Nadir wouldn't dare to say such a thing. This proves, conclusively, that he isn't attacking Shabir from consistency, but from a desire to bring down apologists who are obviously better and more famous than he is.

27 comments:

Unknown said...

im in now way defending NADIR, what he has done is disgusting....

but i remeber reading on answering-islam that you guys (christians) belived that what happened to deedat was god punishing him for attacking your beliefs....

here: http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Deedat/downfall.htm

Sepher Shalom said...

Nadir, Someone that you have been criticizing and mocking has some words for you:

Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger; brawling and slander, along with every form of malice (Ephesians 4:31)

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid (Proverbs 12:1)

Before his downfall a man's heart is proud, but humility comes before honor (Proverbs 18:12)

For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice. (James 3:16)

Sepher Shalom said...

If Nadir is going to be consistent, and assuming he actually cares about his new friend Ehteshaam, wouldn't he also have to say that Allah will curse Ehteshaam for believing in the Swoon Theory?

How about it Nadir? Don't you want to warn your friend about his dangerous beliefs and impending curse?

David Wood said...

Khayyam,

I'm glad you agree with the rest of us, both Christians and Muslims, that Nadir's actions are absolutely disgusting.

I can't speak for the other writers at AI, but I've never said that Deedat was cursed. I simply don't know how I could distinguish between (1) God giving someone a stroke, and (2) someone simply having a stroke. Theoretically, there could be factors that persuade me in one direction or the other. For instance, if Deedat had a history of strokes in his family, this would obviously weigh heavily in favor of a purely natural stroke. Or, if Deedat had stepped outside and said, "I challenge the God of the Bible to give me a stroke right now," and then he had fallen over from a stroke, I would say this weighs in favor of divine rebuke.

But apart from something like that, it would never occur to me to say what God has done to an individual like Deedat. Nadir, however, seems to have divine knowledge in these cases.

David Wood said...

Sepher Shalom,

Yes, Nadir would have to say that young Muslim apologists like Ehteshaam Gulam and Shadid Lewis risk being cursed because of their adherence to Swoon Theory. But will he say this? No, just as he won't say that Deedat was cursed. He's completely inconsistent, and it's obvious to everyone that he's only attacking Shabir out of envy and jealousy.

Fernando said...

Hi Khayyam... thanks for your alwaies interesting to read wordes...

have you, never the less, noticed thate with Deedat it was supposed a punishement IN HIM due to Deedat's actions and with Shabir and Doctor Wood it was supposed a punishement IN THEIR SONS due to their's fathers actions?...

Or do you believe that Muhammad died in the horrible wai he died due to his parents falts?

David Wood said...

Fernando,

An even more important question is this: Since Muhammad had several sons, and all of these sons died, is this a sign of God's curse on Muhammad? I don't think so. But if Nadir's going to be consistent, I don't see how he can avoid saying it.

ubiquitouserendipity said...

correct me if i'm wrong someone, but nadir's reasoning (for lack of a better word to describe his lack of reason) seems to apply the fallacy of "affirming the consequent," which is easily refuted by logic, reason, and scripture:

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

does nadir's reasoning also impute to non-believers and believers (in his failed belief system) allah's curse when a mohammedan gets into a car accident with a non-believer? who is the cursed one: the believer or the non-believer. what if there is a death (no jihad victory, no shahid action) of the mohammedan? are they cursed too because they died in an innocuous (for the sake of illustration) car accident and not in a holy action of some sort?

get real nadir ahmed.

Javier said...

but i remeber reading on answering-islam that you guys (christians) belived that what happened to deedat was god punishing him for attacking your beliefs.... I'm not sure Christians have that liberty to know if a calamity is punishment, or for example discipline, or for some other purpose strictly known to God (Deut 29:29). But the revealed things do belong to Christians and we know that God causes calamity, and disaster as well as personal problems for people. Strictly speaking, I'm not sure how one would know. :)

Anonymous said...

If Nadir is really consistent, he will have to proclaim that Ahmed Deedat was also cursed by God. Deedat, like Shabir Ally, embraced Swoon Theory and helped popularize it among Muslims. In 1996, Deedat suffered a stroke that left him paralyzed and unable to speak or swallow for the rest of his life.That almost looks like a pattern which might support his position.

Anonymous said...

Khayyam,
not everything on answering-islam is worth endorsing.

David Wood said...

Matthew said: "That almost looks like a pattern which might support his position."

Yes, he could make such an argument. But the point of this post is that Nadir wouldn't dare make such an accusation against Ahmed Deedat. This shows that Nadir is inconsistent, and that he's only attacking Shabir out of jealousy.

David Wood said...

Has anyone noticed that Nadir is completely silent on the Deedat question? It's as if he's admitting that he's completely inconsistent and that he is only attacking Shabir out of envy.

Royal Son said...

David - Would you like for me to send a clip of Nadir avoiding a debate with Rafa-el? It's very short and i'll have to censor his language with beeps or something but I think it could be useful, especially to address his claim that everyone is running away from him.

KeithTruth also had a debate from Nadir in which Nadir was getting refuted thoroughly, and again Nadir ran away from the debate - he sent Keith a pm saying "Oh well, I tried my best"

Royal Son said...

Yes David, I noticed that too. Is there a special term in debating when the opponent loses a point by default by not addressing claims against his position?

For now, I'll call it an implicit white flag.

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

well

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

Well, thats just nuts. If Nadir really believes people get cursed for believing the swoon theory, then I agree with David, Nadir is simply losing his mind.

Anthony Rogers said...

EG,

You put that so diplomatically. I don't think anyone here believes Nadir is losing his mind...we think he lost it a long time ago.

Now there I go being diplomatic: the fact is, some people aren't entirely convinced Nadir had anything to lose to start with.

Either that or his mind is just temporarily "swooning", but I would rather not assert such a thing for fear that Nadir might call down curses upon me. If that happened, then I would surely be added to "the list": Shabir, Deedat....(ooops, strike the last one. Deedat doesn't count. Don't ask me why. And whatever you do, don't ask Nadir why. David already asked. Nadir's lips are sealed. I guess that isn't the kind of attention he wanted.)

David Wood said...

Did anyone think that we would completely silence Nadir with this one?

David Wood said...

Royal Son,

Yes, I'd like the clip. No need to censor the language. I'll add a "Parental Advisory" note to let people know that they can expect the typical foul language from Nadir.

Ehteshaam Gulam said...

How did David Wood find out about Nadir's 2 previous marriages and PPO Violation is what I want to know. Nadir is my friend-- he never told me any of this.

David Wood said...

Ehteshaam,

When I announced that I was doing a series on Nadir, questions of Muta came up once again. Since someone said that the reason for Nadir's first divorce was that he was practicing Muta with another woman, one of our readers who lives in Nadir's area went to the courthouse to see what was in the court records.

The point of looking through the records wasn't to criticize Nadir for his divorces. That's his business. The purpose was to see what Nadir really thinks about Muta. And it was certainly odd to find that he got married less than a month after his first divorce, and that this second marriage lasted less than two months.

I don't take this as proof that Nadir practices Muta. But I can see why some would wonder about it.

I was also surprised that Nadir's wife accused him of abusing her. Nadir said that she was out for money, but the court records show that Nadir had practically nothing. But since Nadir was found "not guilty," his ex-wife's reasons will have to remain a mystery.

Michelle Qureshi said...

Ehteshaam said:Well, thats just nuts. If Nadir really believes people get cursed for believing the swoon theory, then I agree with David, Nadir is simply losing his mind.

Wow - see? I told you I liked this guy. Good job on being honest, Ehteshaam, and keeping your allegiance to principles.

Looking forward to debating you later this year on the Bible and the Qur'an. How does the weekend of May 28th strike you?

Radical Moderate said...

David Wood said...
Did anyone think that we would completely silence Nadir with this one?

Yeah I didn't tink it would be that easy.

Royal Son said...

Let's see what Nadir has to say on his website here:

"Therefore the Bible is very relevant!!! That is how Ahmed Deedat won so many converts: Deedat smashed the Bible, which made Christians THINK, if this the Holy Bible is not true, then which is the true religion of Christ? Proving the Bible to be corrupt proves a very central doctrine of Islam."

Sounds like Nadir was pro-Deedat to me...

Royal Son said...

David : "Yes, I'd like the clip. No need to censor the language. I'll add a "Parental Advisory" note to let people know that they can expect the typical foul language from Nadir."

I think you forgot about this one :) You put the clip up, but you need to put the notice up.

Thanks.

IslamSINS said...

I think, if Nadir wishes to remain faithful to his image, he should don a weather-beaten top hat, a moth-eaten black cloak, AND, most importantly, a Snidely Whiplash mustache.

This is freely given, but I shall send Nadir my consultant's billing if he wishes to retain me for some P.R.