Take, for instance, my first debate with Sami Zaatari. Many people were shocked at Nadir's attack on Sami during the Q&A period. Nadir suggested that Christians should not debate Sami because he is not equipped for debate. Why would Nadir make such a claim? The answer is simple. A day earlier, Nadir had been utterly humiliated in a debate with James White, as even Muslims will admit. Yet Muslims were generally quite pleased with Sami's performance. So what does a self-centered, selfish, power-hungry egomaniac like Nadir do when he is obviously outshined by a much younger apologist? For Nadir, there was only one option: Attack Sami.
Those who have dealt with Nadir in the past know that this is nothing new, for he has a long history of attacking Muslim apologists, often in an extremely offensive manner. Over the past few years, for instance, Nadir has called Shabir Ally a "dummy," a "loser," and "weak-minded." Nadir even said that debating Shabir Ally is like debating someone's grandmother. But these baseless insults are nothing compared to Nadir's most recent tirade against Shabir.
In a desperate attack, Nadir has claimed that Shabir's son has been cursed by God because Shabir believes in Swoon Theory (the view that Jesus was crucified, but that He survived crucifixion). According to Nadir, Shabir's son is blind because God struck him due to Shabir's beliefs. Indeed, Nadir maintains that Muslims must believe that Shabir's son has been cursed by God, since to believe otherwise is to be inconsistent. Nadir says:
Muslim have no problem accepting that Anis Shorosh was punished, or Jimmy Swaggart was punished..Muslim have no problem saying that ... so now be consistent... be honest.. and say the same thing about Shabir Aly.
And praise the Lord, the Christians have testified to to honesty and even handedness - I applauded the demise of Morey, Sharosh, Wood, and when Christians confronted me about other Muslims... I did not hold a double standard and use the same standard to judge them...
My response to why Allah punished Shabir Aly, or other Muslims... it is the curse of the cross. They embraced it, and Allah punished them. Now all those Muslim who mocked Sharosh and the Christians... need to come forward and admit the same thing about Aly.
It is a matter of honesty... and we can not have a double standard.
Now let's follow Nadir's reasoning through to the logical conclusion. Shabir defends Swoon Theory. Instead of striking Shabir with blindness, Allah struck Shabir's son. So Nadir believes that God punishes one person for the sins of another. But since Nadir believes that God can punish person X for the sins of person Y, why would Nadir object to the cross at all? And if there's no good reason to object to the cross, why would Allah strike Shabir's son because Shabir took a different position on an ambiguous verse of the Qur'an?
We should keep in mind that the Hadith supports Nadir's view that God punishes people for the sins of others:
Sahih Muslim 6666--Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit in his stead a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire.
Sahih Muslim 6668--Allah's Messenger [said]: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with as heavy sins as a mountain, and Allah would forgive them and He would place in their stead the Jews and the Christians.
Nadir, however, believes that parents' sins are paid for, not by Jews and Christians, but by their own babies! This is an interesting view for a Muslim to hold, considering verses such as the following:
Qur'an 6:164--Say: What! Shall I seek a Lord other than Allah? And He is the Lord of all things; and no soul earns (evil) but against itself, and no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another; then to your Lord is your return, so He will inform you of that in which you differed.
Qur'an 17:15--Whoever goes aright, for his own soul does he go aright; and whoever goes astray, to its detriment only does he go astray; nor can the bearer of a burden bear the burden of another, nor do We chastise until We raise an Apostle.
Nadir, it seems, has gone against the clear teachings of the Qur'an. But if Allah blinded Shabir's son because Shabir reinterpreted an ambiguous verse, what will Allah do to Nadir when Nadir ignores obvious statements of the Qur'an? Perhaps Allah will strike Nadir's career, and cause him to be despised by Christians, Muslims, Jews, and atheists around the world. Oops. It's too late to do that.
I know that Muslims in general are repulsed by Nadir's antics. But I have no clue why only a small handful of Muslims (e.g. Yahya Seymour and Sami Zaatari) are openly speaking out against him. I disagree with William Lane Craig on various issues. I also disagree with James White. Yet it would never occur to me to say that these men are cursed because they disagree with me, and I would certainly not tolerate other Christians condemning them due to minor disagreements.
Shabir Ally is Islam's greatest debater. He is extremely intelligent. He's also kind, pleasant to be around, unoffensive, and honorable. He is a man of integrity. He is very much what I would want to be like if I were a Muslim apologist.
Nadir, on the other hand, is rude, obnoxious, disrespectful, arrogant, boastful, violent, and deceptive. He uses horribly foul language, insults Christians and Muslims alike, and tries to get the entire world to revolve around himself. He is one of the worst debaters in history, completely unable to focus on the topic at hand. Nadir obviously suffers from chronic envy and jealousy. He wants to bring everyone else down, so that his own status will be better by comparison. He is illogical, immoral, and has absolutely no personal integrity. He is, in short, the exact opposite of what I would want to be if I were a Muslim apologist.
I conclude with a piece of advice for Nadir. Nadir, if you're on the first floor of a building, and you're jealous because other people are on the top floor, the solution is not to tear down the building in an effort to bring them down to your level. Rather, the solution is to start climbing the stairs. Similarly, if the world is repulsed by your horrendous behavior, constant insults, and delusions of grandeur, and you're jealous of more respectable people, the solution is not to attack people who are obviously better than you. Instead, the solution is to reform your character and actions, and to learn something before you talk.
22 comments:
David you said in the post.
"I know that Muslims in general are repulsed by Nadir's antics. But I have no clue why only a small handful of Muslims (e.g. Yahya Seymour and Sami Zaatari) are openly speaking out against him."
That is the thing. Muslims dont like to take out their own trash. Take for instance the horable attacks on 9-11. I'm sure decent muslims were repulsed by these actions. However did they condem the muslims resposnible for them. No instead they came up with elaborate conspiracy theories, blamed the Jews, George Bush administration, the free masons, The Iluminanti and any one or anythig else that wasnt a muslim.
Look at Saddam Husein. A brutal horable dictator that killed his own people, killed other muslims by the thousands. Yet when he was removed from power and then exectuted the Sunni Islamic world went nuts, they were outraged.
Ask Nakdimon about his experiance with muslims bashing Nadir on paltalk. But when Nadir came into the room he was the greatest muslim apologist.
Perhaps since only a few muslims have come out in public oposition to Nadir. Then maybe you and James and others should only debate Nadir. Force their hand. After all he really is their problem.
Only debating Nadir for a year or so would be a loss. But in the bigger scheme of things it would be a small loss, compared to a big gain.
Nadir Amned...
I rellie don't know whate to say...
here I was starting to think all these things might juste be an orchestred "complot" from some zionists and you simply destroied this supposition withe your wordes...
please: accept this humble and truthfull advice: take a good vacation (and vocation) time, learn from the others muslimes apologistes like Osama Abdalah, ask forgiveness to all you deeplie offended and do not follow twice the same pathe again...
We all around here will bee praying for your recoberie...
Excellent post Dr. Wood. You put so many good points together. I hope and pray that Nadir will wake up and be brought to repentance.
Fernando : I'd probably say that Nadir would do better to learn from Shabir Ally than Osama Abdallah, but we know that's not going to happen.
HEY! come one... someone write something... it looks like the party fizzled out.. :(
I have been on cloud 9 these last few days, that the Christians would throw a party for me...
btw, David.. why didnt you post my comments from that Christian on paltalk???
He was a shamoun fan, and he wanted that fat pig to debate me again... Now.. I hope Shamoun will not let his own fans down ;)
But Im ready...
Hey.. did you guys know that I actually get quite a bit of Christian fan mail?? Seriously.. people who are Christian.. but love the debates on my website.. and for some strange reason.. likes seeing the Christians get humiliated... kinda wierd.. but true.
Thanks,
Nadir Ahmed
www.ExamineTheTruth.com
Nadir,
I'm glad you're having fun being the center of attention. You'll be the center of attention for quite some time as soon as I have enough articles to give you your very own website!
You asked: "btw, David.. why didnt you post my comments from that Christian on paltalk???"
Because I assumed that the comments were from you, posted under a false name, as you've done before on this site. Indeed, notice what you just said: "why didnt you post my comments . . ." Your comments? So they were yours, correct? You need to stop doing this Nadir. I've actually been protecting you from comments I felt were overly harsh (I also blocked a comment that insulted the Fat Man). I don't see how I can continue being nice if you're using false names.
Now please respond to my latest post, Nadir. Admit that you will not condemn Ahmed Deedat, and that you're simply not consistent. Then admit the obvious: You're jealous of Shabir Ally.
David thats so nice of you. But really no reason to block insults. I got really thick fat :)
Royal Son saide: «Fernando : I'd probably say that Nadir would do better to learn from Shabir Ally than Osama Abdallah»...
yes Royal Son... I totalie agree thate Sahbir Ally not onlie seems to be a verie good person, buut also a good muslim apologiste...
butt there's a psychological and paedagogical rull off mental developement that sais that one should onlie sugest a goal thate is inmediatlie above the current levell off mentalitie...
above Nadir, inmediatelie, above him, we found, I recon, Osama Abdallah... when Nadir can reache Osama's level then he cann trie to walk a furder stepp... step bye step...
I am beginning to believe that Nadir Ahmed suffers from a narcissistic personality disorder.
It's unfortunate that exposing what this guy is all about requires giving him so much attention.
"Hey.. did you guys know that I actually get quite a bit of Christian fan mail?? Seriously.. people who are Christian.. but love the debates on my website.. and for some strange reason.. likes seeing the Christians get humiliated... kinda wierd.. but true."
Nadir can't even hork up a believable lie. Why would a "Christian" like seeing a sibling in Christ "humiliated"? I've never seen Nadir humiliate anyone but himself and his Muhammadan community. If he's getting "fanmail" from a Christian, it must be one who finds entertainment in listening to such an ignorant Muslim, he makes every oponent sound genius.
The first step toward healing, is admitting you have a problem. Since Nadir hasn't been able to confront his own lunacy, he will remain an internet piƱata, clubbed by Christians and Muslims.
One thing this site has done for me is morph Nadir from an object of scorn to one of pity and scorn. We need to pray that he will find his mind; he's making "Allah" look completely impotent. But then, "Allah" wasn't able to heal Muhammad's illiteracy in that cave, so maybe "Allah" is impotent.
Sepher Shalom said...
I am beginning to believe that Nadir Ahmed suffers from a narcissistic personality disorder.
I thought Narcisits were usualy very successfull people. CEO's politicians, Serial Killers....
Nadir Ahmed said...
HEY! come one... someone write something... it looks like the party fizzled out.. :(
ubiquitouserendipity says: feeling needy today are we? imagine that: a lonely, unhappy man coming to the internet to be validated by his detractors. probably because he has no real friends and/or admirers.
Nadir Ahmed said... I have been on cloud 9 these last few days, that the Christians would throw a party for me...
ubiquitouserendipity says: again nadir,,, get it where you can. must be a lonely little world you sit and fester in.
Nadir Ahmed said... btw, David.. why didnt you post my comments from that Christian on paltalk???
He was a shamoun fan, and he wanted that fat pig to debate me again... Now.. I hope Shamoun will not let his own fans down ;)
But Im ready...
Hey.. did you guys know that I actually get quite a bit of Christian fan mail?? Seriously.. people who are Christian.. but love the debates on my website.. and for some strange reason.. likes seeing the Christians get humiliated... kinda wierd.. but true.
ubiquitouserendipity says: nadir: would you say that your parents are cursed for having such an obviously distraught and lonely son who pretends to be "religious" but who is seemingly so filled with hate towards the world? do you think you might be cursed by your allah because your life is so unfilfilled? some things to think about
Actually Nadir Ahmed is the one cursed...he just don't know it yet. :-)
Don't you people find it odd that Nadir would always try to debate that Islam is a religion of peace and yet his own words are anything but peaceful? I think he has a lot of internal conflict within.
May God grace Him with the gospel.
Royal Son,
I agree. We've seen Nadir threaten to kill his fellow Muslims when they disagree with him. And this comes from a man who believes that Islam is peaceful!
I think it'd be good to make a post on the blog about "Nadir Ahmed - The Ambassador of peace"
Ooh, drama in the Muslim apologist world. Feels like high school all over again. Except the Muslim apologists would be the teenagers and the drama would consist of mundane issues...
So, actually I'm surprised that Mr. Ahmed wouldn't be defending his fellow apologists considering they're all arguing for the same cause. Birds of a feather flock together, I thought. It's a sad thing when debating in favor of one's world view becomes a contest--on the same side.
But there have also been so-called Christians that do the same thing (to which, I would argue, their views actually portrayed the opposite--that is to say, they held New Age views rather than Christian).
I feel like I missed out on a lot.
Ok, it's official. Nadir came into paltalk today, I pressed him on the question : "Was Ahmed Deedat cursed?" This was in the "Why I am not a Muslim" room. I am trying to get hold of the recording, although apparently it's very quiet. I'll see if I can amplify it.
He kept trying to avoid it again and again and again.
He said he would only answer the question if he also talks about if Christians were cursed by God.
One admin said ok but only if Nadir addressed Deedat first. Nadir agreed.
He got up on the mic and said that Ahmed Deedat was not cursed.
He was dotted before he got the chance to talk about Christians being cursed. But anyway, there you have it. It's official. Nadir believes Deedat was not cursed.
It shows his total inconsistency when he claimed that Shabir's son was cursed for believing the Swoon theory, and yet turns a blind eye to Deedat who held the same position.
It was unfortunate that he was dotted before he got to mention his reasons for believing that Christians were cursed because I wanted to interact with him further.
In particular I wanted to ask him 2 questions:
1. Why the inconsistency?
2. Why would Shabir's child bear his sin if muslims believe that they are responsible only for their own sins (despite Muslim 87 6668)
Anyway, that settles at least part of the issue, albeit raising more questions.
I forgot to mention, here's the quote of the text he sent me in pm in paltalk:
"nadir_ahmed: Dear Mr. Ahmed:
I am a Christian man who is one of your admirers. I enjoy watching the videos in which you debate such persons as Sam Shamoun, Craig Winn, Keith Thompson, and the like. I believe that you are an intelligent and engaging debater, and you often make your debate opponents look quite ridiculous. I especially enjoyed the video in which you prevailed mightily over Shamoun, who is one of the most arrogant spokespersons against the Islamic faith. Even though I am Christian, I still enjoy how you clobber your opponents in debate.
I would like to send you a work of fiction in which I describe what it will be like on the Day of Judgment and in the Hell-Fire. I have not yet started this narrative, but I hope to do so in the months ahead. This project will give me the opportunity to consider the Day of Judgment and the Fire from the perspective of a Christian man: If Islam should turn out to be the one true religion, then what will be in store for me in the hereafter? The narrative will be an honest effort to answer that terrible question, and for me this will be an example of thinking outside the Christian box. If you would like, I will send you several such installments over the next months, and I hope that it will provide you with an unusual form of entertainment. I may need to take particular liberties with the traditional Islamic understanding of the Last Day and the Hell-Fire. I need you to assure me that you will not be offended by anything that I might say.
Once again, keep up the good work, and continue to go after your opponents in the debate forum. I hope to hear your reply to this e-mail message. Please keep these things fully confidential.
XXX M. XXX
Male, Age 52, USA.
XXX@lycos.com
nadir_ahmed came online at 1:46 PM
royalson: was Deedat cursed ?
nadir_ahmed: im not allowed to talk about this topic
royalson: just answer me here
royalson: yes or no
royalson: ?
royalson: was Deedat cursed ?
nadir_ahmed: ask the admin if i can talk abotu this
royalson: forget about that right now, just answer me here in pm. Was Deedat cursed ?
royalson: please tell me
nadir_ahmed is now offline.
Messages will be delivered when they sign on to Paltalk."
The "letter from a christian" sounds awfully like Nadir writing to himself.
This is disgusting. Nadir Ahmed has every right to disagree with Shabir Ally...but you don't bring a man's family into it.
Okay, I managed to obtain the audio of Nadir Ahmed saying that Deedat was not cursed. I sent it to you David. Please let me know if it went through to your email address.
For once I actually agree with David on a point.
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