Monday, January 22, 2018

When Was Jesus Born? Was it on December 25?



Many of our Muslim friends and even other Christians contend that December 25 was a pagan holiday taken over by Constantine or the Roman Catholic Church and transformed into the birth day of Jesus. Is this true? Do we know when Jesus was born and why the date of December 25 was chosen? Watch and find out!

5 comments:

Elena Everett said...

Cardinal Newman admits in his book that "The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison, are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church. {374}" -An Essay on The Development of the Christian Doctrine John Henry "Cardinal Newman" p.359 - NOTE THAT THE HOLIDAYS AND SEASONS ARE NOT OF BIBLICAL ORIGIN!!!

Why in the world would those who call themselves Christians follow the pagan Roman Catholic church, well-known for changing God's times and laws and saying blasphemous things? (see the compilation of their statements here http://www.remnantofgod.org/beastword.htm). Why would they justify such wrongdoings? Didn't Paul said "As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 9:1)? Did any of apostles preached celebrating of pagan holidays or they preached the Lord Jesus?

Why do you promote lies? Revelation 21:8 clearly says that "... and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." You lie to your own children about Santa Claus who does not even exist... and the things you tell them about him are an open blasphemy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2m0r_rI-Lg

I implore you to reconsider what you do with regards to this false doctrine and I am doing it in the name of Jesus Christ, whom you profess to serve.

Tony Costa said...

There are a number of erroneous statements you make here. For instance you cite Newman (I am not nor is this blog Roman Catholic) who argued elements such as, "incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings... holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments" are proof the Church adopted paganism. If you notice, the nation of Israel also had these elements in their worship in the Tabernacle and Temple.

Secondly, we are not a Roman Catholic ministry. There will be more videos addressing the question of the Christmas tree, holly and ivy and so forth.

Thirdly, you commit an anachronistic fallacy. You are assuming the Roman Catholic church was around in the 4th and 3rd centuries. The Roman Catholic Church developed much later some would even say into the first millenium. Your idea of Rome changing the times and laws is smack out of Ellen G. White who had said and did many things that are not only in error but she erred about the time of Christ's coming. The Gospel Paul speaks of in Galatians 1:6-9 is the Gospel of grace. Every cult denies salvation by grace alone in Christ alone.

You are also in error in saying Christmas was a pagan holiday. Even listened to the video that was made very clear that it was not a pagan holiday. Your charge of me promoting lies is absolutely baseless. You are simply regurgitating the same arguments SDA's, Sabbatarian cult groups, and Armstrong cult groups and others repeat like a mantra. If you are interested in scholarly material on this topic please the works of Roger Beckwith and Anthony McRoy. You can read Dr. McRoy's article here http://www.answering-islam.org/pagan/christmas.html

Elena Everett said...

Tony,
I perceive that I might have insulted you in some way, and if yes, I apologize because it was not my intention. I did not take into consideration that the written statements may not carry the same meaning as stated in person, accompanied by the body language. As to the ‘proof’ that the church adopted pagan traditions, there are many early historical sources that describe the behavior of Catholic church and documented criticism of Christians in the west by eastern Christians who started celebrating Christmas, along with the multiple statements of Catholic church, which took pride in such actions. I will provide you with all the references that I have if you would like do your research on this topic.

As to my anachronistic fallacy, then it is a fallacy of those who lived in the 3rd and 4th centuries to record things that happened in their time (references also available). Then I have a question: How come that several historians of those times, independently of each other, recorded the same thing? Plot? The church started its development in the first century (reference on the source in which the monument to the first pope was criticized in the 2nd century is available) and in 538a.d. the pope officially took the throne and Catholic Church gradually took over the whole Europe.

Regarding of Catholic Church changing times and laws: Saturday was changed to Sunday by Catholic church and there are numerous statements that they made taking pride of their church, which they claim is above the Bible, and if the church did not have such a power, others wouldn’t have agreed with her, and how they urged Christians not to behave like Jews and not to rest on Saturday, and so on (references available). Historic records also refer to Catholic Church changing the time (Pope Gregory XIII changed the calendar in 1582). He did it just like his ancient predecessor Julius Caesar (popery admits that they inherited roman paganism and there are sources in which Popes on occasion referred to themselves as Caesar).

With regards to Ellen White’s wrongsayings and wrongdoings, and her mistake with ‘prediction of Christ’s coming, I would love to have specific references. I know that her writings have been altered and some portions even removed from in the later publications. All of it is to discredit her. So I will appreciate any references. And I am glad to learn that I am not in the cult because my church and myself believe in salvation through the LORD JESUS alone.

As to promoting the lies, it was not charge, but a statement. Statement of a fact often sounds like a charge. And here I am willing to take my words back and go with you. What we have now is that the so-called Santa Clause exists, he is everlasting - comes from the North Pole every year for centuries, omnipotent – squeezes his fat body through the narrow chimneys (without getting dirty), all-knowing – knows who were good and who were bad children, all-forgiving – forgives all children, and all-giving – gives to all children, and on and on and on… So how come that parents still have to buy presents to their children if Santa Claus is the one who brings them from the North Pole? How come that poor children don’t get as much as children of rich parents? Coincidence? Or Santa Clause distribute all gifts according to the status in society? Can you explain this?

As to Sabbatarian cult groups, Catholic church openly mocks Protestants for keeping their sanctified Sunday and calls back under her wing (references available).

God Bless.

Elena Everett said...

Tony,

I believe that I gave you enough time to find at least one reference on Ellen White’s mistake and to answer my questions about Santa Claus (unless I am impatient and didn’t wait longer). What I see now is that you do the same thing you bash the Muslims for – you ignore my questions. And it is a strong indicator that you don’t have knowledge and prefer to stay in the state of ignorance. There is not a single reference on the Bible in that video that ‘clearly’ explains things (it merely explains the truth away). Acts 17:11 says about Bereans “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” and this is how I know that you neither have readiness of mind nor diligently search the Word of God. Instead, you insist that this holiday tradition is not pagan, but if it is not then it has to be according to the Word of God. But the Bible clearly says that “But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men” (pleased note: commandments of men, not of God) (Matthew 15:9). And the LORD was extremely clear when He said “I am the LORD, I CHANGE NOT” (Malachi 3:6). Even the apostles knew that the LORD is not going to change: “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever” (Hebrews 13:8). And if He did not command us to celebrate his birthday, then we are not to and the excuses whatever they are should not matter…

You also prefer to ignore the ethical issue – the lies so-called Christian parents tell their children. But commandment #9 says not to bare the false witnesses. I find it strange that Christians teach their children lies about Santa but then when the child later finds out that the lie works and starts lying, these same parents suddenly tell the child that it is not good to lie, and you state that it is absolutely baseless, which is even more strange.

Below you will find quotes from some pioneers of Protestant movement in the United States with regards to the importance of the law. But you still insist on some tradition…sad… I will close by statement that I am sure that you won’t be able to explain even the simple things like who is the beast, what is his name that it sums up to 666 (Revelation 13:16 says that you have to have understanding), what is the mark and the image of the beast.

I am not giving up and hope and will pray that one day you will wake up spiritually and will accept the word the way it is written, not the way this world teaches.

Elena Everett said...

P.S. Quotes on importance of keeping the law, which includes “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy” (the LORD blessed Saturday when he rested that day and even apostles did not annoint Jesus’s body when it was getting dark on Friday and rested according to the commandments) and “Do not bare false witnesses”.

“Thus it is, by disowning the law, men utterly subvert the gospel. Believers, therefore, instead of being freed from obligation to obey it, are under greater obligation to do so than any men in the world” - Baptist Publication Society, Tract 64

“We believe that the Law of God is the eternal and unchangeable rule of his moral government; and that the inability which the Scriptures ascribe to fallen men to fulfill its precepts arises entirely from their love of sin [which is your case]; to deliver them from which, and to restore them through a Mediator to unfeigned obedience to the holy Law, is one great end of the Gospel, and of the means of grace.” - New Hampshire Confession, article 12 [According to Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom, (New York: Harper, 1919), Vol. 3, p 746.]

“Not only is it unchangeable with respect to places and races, to days and seasons, to conditions and circumstances, but also to ages. It has been unchangeable. It will be unchangeable. This rule is unchangeable because it is in harmony with the unchangeable nature of God.” - O.C.S. Wallace, What Baptists Believe, p 81. Copyright 1934 by the Sunday School Board of the Southern Baptist Convention, Nashville. [it is funny to see how Baptists promote Catholic Sunday and at the same time insist that the Law is unchangeable...]

“Jesus did not give a new code, but he also did not say that the moral teachings of the Old Testament were suspended. The ceremonial and ritualistic laws of the Old Testament are abrogated for the Christian, but not the Ten Commandments.” - J. Philip Hyatt, “God’s Decrees for Moral Living.” The Teacher, 57 (Oct., 1943), 5. Copyright, Sunday School Board of the So. Baptist Convention. [so your statement that the trees and everything else is ok does not make any sense. In addition, your claim that Jews had candles and so on is absolutely baseless]

As you see, do not lie still applies today just like it was each and every single day for thousands of years. So we are to obey the written word of God when it says “Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not” (Jeremiah 10:2-4). And this is the very same thing you teach others to do instead of teaching the obedience to the law of God and the daily search of the Bible to find out if these things are true or not…