Friday, June 5, 2015

What It Feels Like Listening to a Zakir Naik Lecture

Muslims keep telling me I need to debate Zakir Naik, as if I haven't already challenged him. I must confess, however, that I can't understand why he's so popular. Here's what I feel like when I listen to a Zakir Naik lecture:


Paige said...

Where would we be without humour...or for that matter meerkats! THEY'RE SO FLUFFY!!!!

Joe Desimone said...

Nicely done David! ... Bahhhh haha hah hah

peter lasse said...

Amazing clip. I am a big fan of David Wood. This video merely adds to that fact.

Rosina said...

It's so true, I have same reaction....nicely done David

nacanacazo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ignatius said...

Boy, what a bad soundtrack! If that's typical for Nair, he's a terrible speaker!

King Harkinian II said...

Attending a Zakir Naik lecture - or really any Muslim lecture for that matter - will leave you a bit older, but none the wiser.

Samatar Mohamed said...

wow that was cold

simple_truth said...

I love your humor, David.

CHIDI ORJI said...

hahahahaha. i love David Wood.

Humour is good.

Jesus is Lord said...

LOL! If You want to Lower your IQ, listen to Zakir Naik for 5 Minutes!
WARNING: To much exposure to Zakir Naik will leave you with permanent damage to the Frontal and Occipital Lobe Part of your Brain! You've been warned!

Charlie said...

A place where you are more ignorant than before when leaving.

Nojmul Huda said...

Zakir Naik is preparing for David Wood’s question: “who did kill Muhammad and why had Muhammad not been saved by his Allah?”



Too bad this type of humor involving this cute little creature is forbidden in Islam. I read several authentic Hadiths that condemn any paintings or pictures, including of animals.

For example, Sahih Muslim vol.3 no.5268 (p.1160) says, "Ibn ‘Umar reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said: Those who paint pictures would be punished on the Day of Resurrection and it would be said to them: Breathe soul into what you have created.2519"

Notice that the prohibition was not just against idolators who made pictures, or even Muslims who made pictures for other reasons, but for anyone who made pictures.

Sahih Muslim vol.3 no.5271 (p.1161) gives a little more detail: "This hadith has been reported on the authority of Abu Mu’awiya though another chain of transmitters (and the words are): ‘Verily the most grievously tormented people amongst the denizens [inhabitants] of Hell on the Day of Resurrection would be the painters of pictures.2520..."

"Narrated ‘Aisha: Allah’s Apostle said, ‘The painter of these pictures will be punished on the Day of Resurrection, and it will be said to them, Make alive what you have created.’" Bukhari vol.9 book 93 no.646 p.487. no.647 p.487 is the same except it is narrated by Ibn ‘Umar.

No pictures of people or animals according to Bukhari vol.4 book 54 no.447-450 p.297-299.

Feel bad for Sunni muslims.

bam bamba said...

This is hilarious! That how I feel too when I listen to moslems talk

Paige said...

I thought this video was funny because it was a dig at Dr. Naik's widely known and unusual tele-evangelism style of rhtetoric, not an attack on the intelligence of all Muslims.

It seems that others have seen this as an opportunity to brand all Muslims as unintelligent. I did not think this was David Wood's intention, but others seem to think it is. I hope I am right.

Bam Bamba, I can only assume you don't have the privilege of talking with Muslilms often, as if you did you would find a vast number of highly intelligent human beings who would expand your knowledge base and challenge you to think more deeply.

Keith said...

"Bam Bamba, I can only assume you don't have the privilege of talking with Muslilms often, as if you did you would find a vast number of highly intelligent human beings who would expand your knowledge base and challenge you to think more deeply."

Paige, this is why this whole Islam and Muslims thing is all the more bewildering. I grew up among Muslims and have had the privilege to engage many of them on a daily basis. Like every other group, there are many of them who are so intelligent and who has taught me a thing or two about many subjects..........that I just CANNOT comprehend why can't they apply that very same intelligence towards Islam. Call it indoctrination, personal disinterest toward anything religious, or maybe a spiritual hindrance, but all I can do is pray for them.

Paige said...

Amen Keith!

It defies reason, doesn't it that highly intelligent and informed human being can buy into the Islamic network of lies.

I agree there are multiple reasons why people stay. I often think of what is taught in psychology, that is, that we repeat behaviour by choice, even damaging behaviour, if there is a reward in it for us. That reward may be inverted, such as, "if I do this I will not get beaten", so rewards may be strange to many of us. I often ask myself, what is the perceived reward that this person believes they will gain by staying in Islam. It might be affirmation from a love one, protection, acceptance or "if I remain a Muslim I won't be in danger".

For an Imam I know, it is obvious that his entire world would collapse if Islam were not true. He is very kind and very intelligent, but everything he has ever believed is based on Islam and it's obvious that this is his security. He simply cannot perceive life without Islam, and therefore becomes agitated and changes his breathing when there is a suggestion that Islam is not the right path. He shudders when he hears about ISIL as if this was a direct attack on life itself. I know he suspects things are not right with Islam, but he has no mechanism with which to deal with these doubts.

Perhaps that's why I'm so cautious about how I present the truth, because I know that many Muslims lack the mechanism with which to deal with doubt so when they can no longer cope, they just shut you out. I hate that 'shut-down' moment when you know that that person is too afraid to talk to you anymore. It's those window closing moments that I want to avoid.

We often have the content, and this website is wonderful for providing people with content, but it is the method with which we present it that I think most of us stumble on. At least, it's the area that I need the most help with. I know that acts of service are one way to keep that window open, but this is not always possible when it's a one-off meeting.

I would very much appreciate any advice that others may have on how to get beyond the 'shut-down' moments!!!

Keith said...

I have wondered about this... how to avoid Muslims and even other non-Christians from "shutting down". Perhaps we can start from a common point. I presume this would be easier to achieve with a Muslim than with an atheist or a Buddhist (adherent of atheistic religions). Then go on until there is a difference in opinion, for example the deity of Christ. But at least we have started on a positive "common ground" footing e.g. that both Christians and Muslims believe in God. Then discuss the reason for the difference in opinion and what do the facts support.

Answering Judaism said...

Adorable meerkat. "Compare ze, simples".

Samatar Mohamed said...

Keith the same thing could be said about why you follow Christianity.

Keith said...

Samatar, I don't see how it is the same. Care to elaborate?

Paige said...

Thanks Keith for that very helpful advice.

Dear Samatar Mohamed,

Are you referring to Keith's earlier comment? "I just CANNOT comprehend why can't they apply that very same intelligence towards Islam."

I completely understand what you are saying, especially as I've sat in Islamic classes where Christians and the Bible have been discussed. If all I knew of Christianity was through those classes I'd believe Christianity was a bunch of utter nonsense. In fact, from those classes I was able to understand why Muslims look at me as if I'm just ridiculous for believing what I do, because I've heard what they are taught about us.

My Islamic lecturers' errors weren't about incorrect interpretations of the Bible, they were blatant omissions of text, or worse, additions. The amazing thing was that these were coming from people with Ph.Ds. For example, students were taught on day one that Christians have always been afraid of knowledge because they believe that God forbade Adam to eat from "the Tree of Knowledge". This was in a university, yet Islamic lecturers misquoted, added and changed historically accepted texts constantly.

There is always an unusual focus in Islamic Studies on distorting and changing Christian texts in order to make Christianity look like a joke. I don't think my lecturers were lying, I think they were just repeating what they had been taught. Just as I encouraged them, I encourage you to go the source and read the Bible for yourself.

I'd love to hear what you think of it.

Marina Gallagher said...

Paige, Keith,

I like your searching for answers as to how to break through the armor. I’m not good at evangelism, but I have given it some thought. For Moslems, my (as yet largely) unrealized approach involves four factors:

1. Keith, you mentioned prayer. I’m in a small group which prays weekly for persecuted Christians and the conversion of the Moslem world. Privately I also pray for five terrorists who I've committed myself to pray for, and for some Moslem acquaintances of mine plus their families.

2. This factor is where you have both experienced the “shutting down.” The work at discrediting Mohammed and Islam is extremely important. This is done by people like David Wood and it is, as you discovered Paige, also done by ISIL/ISIS and other such jihad groups, which puts peaceful Moslems into a quandary. I think the case against Islam is much more widely known among Moslems than we suspect, and I think there is a lot of inner wringing and struggle with the difficulties.

3. I will never have the ahadith and quran verses at my fingertips like the apologists do, but when a Moslem makes a claim about Islam, I hope I’ll be able to challenge it with a vague, imprecise question such as, “Well, that particular verse fragment says killing an innocent person is like killing the whole world, but isn’t the full context violent? And is there a distinction between instructions to the Jews and instructions to the Moslems?” If I have the e-mail address, I might send the person the link to David’s film on this verse and ask for his/her opinion on it.

4. I hope to invite Moslems to Christian educational evenings. Thus a friend and I will hold an evening on Humanae Vitae in the autumn. A young Moslem lady will be invited to it, because we’d like to have someone with a Moslem perspective hear it. If she comes, she’ll hear that Christians have entered into a covenant with God through baptism; we are now part of the chosen people and have the status of being His sons and daughters. She’ll secretly compare that with the Moslem status of being a slave/servant of Allah. She will also hear that marriage is a sacred covenant between a man and woman for life which excludes other sex partners. She’ll hopefully compare this with the polygamous practices and frivolous divorce rules in Islam. There’ll be no pressure on her to say anything, and Islam will not even be mentioned the whole evening, but she’ll hopefully begin to see the depravity of Mo’s teaching and the richness of the Christian Gospel.

Those are just my thoughts. I wish you all the best in your encounters with Moslems and in your walk with the Lord.

ignatius said...

Oops! I wrote that last comment (comment 24) on a friend's computer, and it came out as Marina Gallagher. It is actually from Ignatius. My apologies, Paige and Keith.

Paige said...

Thank you Ignatius! This was very helpful and very much appreciated.

Paige said...

Hey, I just thought how interesting it was that we got from David's video to this point. Maybe this is a "6 degrees of Kevin Meerkat" thing?

Mahsheed said...

Likewise amazed that the hilarious Meerkat video generated such interesting comments!

Regarding "shutting down", have had it happen too. Not surprised, the pursuit of truth (Christ=Truth with capital T) is most costly with all kinds of problems. Imagine the personal costs to Zakir Naik or Anjem Choudry for following Christ: they would lose everything, whereas now they lead lives of comfort and respect and are feared by the authorities and to top it off imagine they are living for Allah and therefore better and braver than everyone else!

ignatius said...

Nice play on words, Paige. It is amazing where such conversations can lead us, and there are not many people among my circle of friends who I could talk with on these topics.

Mahsheed said...

Re the "Tree of Knowledge" I was misled by that omission via the writings of an influential Iranian scholar, completely fell for it. I wasn't acquainted with the Bible and didn't know the full name is "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil". I was also taught that Christians and Jews blame Eve (hence causing sexism) whilst we Muslims are above that sort of thing.

Paige said...

That's such an excellent point Mahsheed, and one that I need to remember when I'm talking to Muslim believers. This is definitely where discernment comes into play, especially needing to sense when someone's heart is open but their head, which knows the cost they will pay for leaving, is overriding it.

The advice that people are giving has been very insightful and incredibly helpful. Thank you everyone. It's so good to be able to put our heads together like this.

One thing I'd really like to do is being able to have a discussion where neither party refer to any sacred texts as our final authority. This is to try and avoid the circular arguments that Muslims often engage in, eg. Mohammad is a true prophet because the Qur'an says he is, the Qur'an is true because Mohammad says it is, or Allah is true because the Qur'an says so and the Qur'an is true because Allah says so...and neither Allah nor the Qur'an can be wrong because they both said they couldn't be.

Is it fair to ask Muslims to lay the Qur'an aside for the purpose of debate, or is it even possible? Thoughts?

King Harkinian II said...

Paige, in case you took my comment the wrong way, let me put it to you like this. On MythBusters, they examined the myth of pyramid power. One of the people they interviewed was one of those types who wore a precisely-measured pyramid on his head, believing it would be beneficial for him. As the show's narrator put it, by the time they were done talking to him, they were no closer to knowing anything about the myth or having learned anything - the time they spent with him left them older, but without any additional knowledge to show for it.

That doesn't mean this gentleman was stupid - it just meant he had nothing to say.

Muslim lectures are the same way. Sure, some of these people are very educated and smart, but what do they SAY in such lectures as these? As Christians, we already know that when preaching Islam they're wrong. Thus, no one has anything to gain from listening to them preach - including the assumption that they're stupid for any reason. You just walk away feeling like the lecture was empty, and that you weren't really told anything by it - not even about the speaker. That's all I meant.

This joke of Dr. Wood's can also be perceived as offensive in a different way: Being that Dr. Naik is Indian, he has a thick accent - which means without subtitles English speakers can't understand him. This clip can be tantamount to dismissing his arguments simply for his being mostly unintelligible when he speaks in lectures.

How is that any better than it being a swipe at general Muslim intelligence?

Mahsheed said...


I will say from experience that almost every thinking Muslim has points of doubt that they push from their consciousness. I had too. Our words don't mean a thing. It's when a person is jolted those doubts will come out and they will be receptive to what you have to say.

You're a much better evangelist than I can hope to be. The only thing I can think of is to suggest that we don't have to let others set the terms of the debate. If you find the conversation is getting bogged down into some minutia why not step back and go meta? Examples of a meta question: What did Islam bring that was new and better than Judaism or Christianity? If Mohammad's father died before he was born, what does his name mean and what was his religion? If you weren't afraid of the punishment due to apostates, would you stay in this religion?

Paige said...

Dear Mahsheed,

You wrote:

"I will say from experience that almost every thinking Muslim has points of doubt that they push from their consciousness. I had too. Our words don't mean a thing. It's when a person is jolted those doubts will come out and they will be receptive to what you have to say."

Human wisdom did not teach you this, nor even your own personal experience as a Muslim. You know this because you are open to the Spirit of God, Mahsheed. Your experience affirms this knowledge, but it came to you from God because you had ears to hear. You are already a better evangelist than you even realize, my friend.

Your write from a place of honesty and authenticity that is not often found on internet forums and your comments come with such a perfect balance of both heart and mind. I am sure I am not the only here to have noticed that.

I don't say these things just to return your kind and encouraging words, but because it is true. Stop hoping, my friend, you're already speaking the truth in love and changing lives, just keeping on doing what you already are!

Excellent, excellent advice! I hope others will read and appreciate it as much as I do.

If you don't mind I thought I'd put them in point form for other readers:

1. Be mindful that most Muslims already have doubts pushed to the back of their mind
2. Words and arguments aren't enough on their own to convince a Muslim that Islam in wrong.
3. Be prayerfully aware that God will use opportunity to bring those doubts to the surface.
4. As far as possible, respectfully set the terms of the debate.
5. If an argument becomes bogged down in minuitia (eg. semantics, interpretations) consider whether it's a hair worth splitting and move to meta questions that have more impact (see Mahsheed's examples).

God bless you Mahsheed for sharing these important and insightful thoughts! And God bless the ministry the Lord has already begun through you.

Paige said...

Hi King,

Thanks for your thoughts. I wasn't responding to your initial comment, as much as I was to one that came after yours. But I do want to respond to your later comment, specifically your statement, "As Christians, we already know that when preaching Islam they're wrong. Thus, no one has anything to gain from listening to them preach".

Nothing to gain? Really? Well, for one thing you might learn something that might help you to have more compassion and insight, you might learn something that might help you to understand why so many people are willing to believe Islam, you might learn something of a culture you didn't know before, and you might gain a Muslim friend you never had before!

King, there is always something to be gained by listening, and much to lose when we refuse to. If you're on this page because you want to see Muslims know the fullness of God's truth, then lesson no. 1 is learn to listen to them.


David posted a joke with a cute and fluffy meerkat falling asleep as it listened to Zakir. We played a prank like this on a lecturer at bible college. It was funny. I laughed. That's my take on the video.

Mahsheed said...

Thank you for your kind words, dear Paige, encouraging me to keep trying.

Here's a story you might find interesting. I know an ex-Muslim turned secular. He tried to read the Bible but didn't register at all. I finally told him his problem is that even though he's left Islam he's kept his Muslim presuppositions with him. Suggested that he put aside all his Muslim based conceptions and approach Scriptures with a blank slate. Once you read Scriptures will find that compared to that the Quran is like the sequel to Gone with the Wind (obviously written by a different author and a completely forgettable book--lol). You can understand the Bible by Peter Kreeft is a great start. A few people I know started Old Testament and gave up long before reaching NT. Probably better to read New Testament first, or, read Genesis, then New Testament, then start from beginning.

God bless you and your ministry as well. I'm not able to post very often these days so please don't mind the long gaps in response times.

patricia300100 said...

Too funny lol..Naik could help by speaking..more clearly...or hiring an english interpreter...its not easy to catch all his words on the fly with his accent ...he uses the pakistani his english..