Sunday, February 8, 2015

ISIS, Islam, and the Burning of Captives

On January 3, 2015, the Islamic State (ISIS) set fire to Jordanian pilot Muath Safi Yousef al-Kasasbeh. ISIS released a video of the execution a month later. Since al-Kasasbeh was already dead when ISIS was negotiating his release, the negotiations were a sham.

Following the execution, many politicians, reporters, and Muslim spokesmen have condemned ISIS for burning a captive to death, insisting that Islam forbids putting captives to death by fire. The passage that condemns burning captives, however, is almost never quoted, because it explicitly promotes killing apostates:
Sahih al-Bukhari 6922—Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to Ali; and he burnt them. The news of this event reached Ibn Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire).’ I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’”
Though this hadith clearly forbids executing apostates by burning them to death, we know historically that Muhammad, Abu Bakr, and Ali all punished people with fire. How can we make sense of the Islamic position on burning captives?


Tabuli Abu said...


Ah Clem said...

Great job, David! Rigorous logical arguments and solid evidence.

Radical Moderate said...

WOW I was defending Muslims and Islam for the last few days based on this hadeeth that no Muslim would give me the source too. I can now see why they wouldn't. That will teach me to defend Islam and Muslims lol.

So the Fourth Rightly Guided Caliph burned people alive.

The First rightly Guided Caliph threatened and burned people alive.

Mohamed wanted to burn people alive for not going to pray.

Yup I can see now that burning people alive is Halal for Allah.

So if Muslims believe that burning aposates is wrong then they should err on the side of caution. Just cut off their heads.

Thanks David Wood for setting me straight I will never again defend Muslims and Islam.

BTW I do have one correction. You said "Who cares what Abu Barkr did... Muslims do". This is only partialy correct as the Shia hate Abu Barkr. But since the hadeeth said their hero Ali burned people alive its still Halah for their Allah to burn people alive.

Here is some other information I found via Jihadwatch...

Nojmul Huda said...

President Obama brought in his speech at American national prayer day, thousand years old history of Crusade to justify ISIS’ atrocities burning live a Jordanian Pilot in a cage, in front of his nose as president of Super power America.

President has failed to understand sentiment of non-Muslims; Muslims are criticized not for ISIS’ brutality but for brutalities, Muhammad, Abu Bakr, and Ali had setup punishing people with fire at their own time and for future generations.

Can anybody blame Jesus Christ, the Son of God set up any example punishing any people of His time and future generations; rather He said “As you sow so shall you reap”. He sowed love for Christians and Christians are calm now, still love Muslims. But Muhammad and his disciples like Abu Bakr, Ali set up example to punish by burning, how did Muslims blame ISIS doing any wrong by the eyes of Muhamad and his Islam? This is real question must be answered by majority Muslims to bring real Peace?

Thanks David pointing finger to source of origin for this brutality against civilization.

apran said...

Perhaps the pilot was not considered as an apostate, therefore it was ok to burn him alive.

Radical Moderate said...

Tabuli Abu, I agree with you, the US should leave Muslims alone to suffer under the Islamic state.

So I'm glad that kuffar and Muslims can agree on something

Husky said...

Mohammed was the greatest gangster in history.
If you don't believe the Angel Gabriel appeared to me, you will die a horrible death. --- So they believed!

wilson blaise said...

On February 7, 2006, the widely accessed Arabic website issued Fatwa No. 71480, titled “The Burning of Ias bin Abdul Yalil by Abu Bakr.” The fatwa, or Islamic decree, concluded that burning people as a form of punishment is permissible.

Ironically, hours after the Islamic State burned the pilot alive, Fatwa No. 71480 was removed from Islam Web.

The Burning of Ias bin Abdul Yalil by Abu Bakr

Fatwa No. 71480

Tuesday 2- 7- 2006

[Question]: How do we reconcile between the prohibition of burning [enemies] by fire made by the Prophet, peace be upon him, and the burning of Ias Abdul Yalil by Abu Bakr, may Allah be pleased with him, during the war of apostasy ?

[Answer]: Praise be to Allah and peace and blessings be upon the Messenger of God and his family and companions. Now:

The fact that the prophet – peace be upon him – forbade burning by fire is documented and stated in his holy hadith – peace and blessings be upon him – where he said: “No one punishes with fire except the Lord of fire,” Narrated by Abu Dawood and Ahmad in his Musnad .

The scholars differ as to whether this prohibition is for interdiction or just for humility; Ibn Hajar said in [his book] Fath Albari: “..Al Muhallab said: This prohibition is not for interdiction but just for humility, and the proof that burning is allowed is in the acts of the prophet’s companions, the prophet – peace be upon him – burned the eyes of the Oranyeen [from Orayna] with heated iron [nails]. And Abu Bakr burned the aggressors in the presence of the companions, Khalid Bin Alwalid [Muslim Army commander] burned some apostates, and most of the scholars of Medina [the prophet’s city] permit burning castles and ships, upon its people, this was stated by Althawri and Al-Awzaai. Ibn Mounir and others said: there is not a proof for permission, because the Oranyeen story was revenge, and the case of castles and ships is allowed with the necessity as a condition, if it was a way to achieve victory upon the enemy.

As for the story of Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) burning Ias Abdul Yalil with fire is documented in the books of history. In the book (Alkamel): “Ias Abdul Yalil came to Abu Bakr and said to him: help me fight the apostates by giving me arms. He gave him arms and ordered him to follow orders; he came to Muslims and even went down to Aljoa, and sent Nokhba bin Abi Almithae of Bani Sharid and appointed him an Emir on Muslims, then he raided every Muslim in the tribe of Salim, Amer, and Hawazen. Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) heard about that then he sent somebody to arrest him [Ias] and bring him back. Abu Bakr ordered a fire to be set in the prayer court then he threw him [Ias] in it with his hands tied.

If scholars have different opinions on the prohibition of burning by fire, as we have said, those who objected to burning allowed it in some exceptional cases, but there is no doubt that what Ias Abdul Yalil did was worth burning him [alive]. May Allah reward the Caliph of the Messenger of Allah – peace be upon him – for his zeal for Islam.

And Allah knows.

Clark said...

Minor detail: It was February 3, not January 3, yes?

A brief link on somewhat the same subject:

wilson blaise said...

Hi David , may the Lord continue to bless you and you family for the courageous work he called you for.
Here are couple Quranic verses you should look in to see if allah itself does not set the precedence in the quran for the burning.

Sura 2:194
......... And one who attacketh you, attack him in like manner as he attacked you. ............

If ye punish, then punish with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted. .......

42:Sahih International
And the retribution for an evil act is an evil one like it,........

Let's put those verses in prospective with ISIS burning of the pilot . By the way those above verses are clear evidences that the Quran is not from the same God who sent Jesus into the world. Jesus demands that we christians forgive our enemies but those verses command muslims to seek vengeance .

when the coalition aircrafts bomb ISIS they do so by dropping bombs over buildings and caves therefore killing those inside and at time some of those targets are set on fire consequently people inside are burnt. After the aftermath of a bombing ISIS use tractors to remove corpses under the rubbles .

according to sura 2:194, 16:126 and 42:42 since isis don't have aircraft and the pilot is not in a building or a cave isis made a cage and put him inside of it and locked it so he won't be able to run then set him on fire and used a tractor to remove his corpse from the cage.
welcome to islam 101 the religion of peace.

akairey said...

@Tabuli response to "drones and F16' have burned millions." Please provide your evidence or is that coming from the taqiyya you practice? I can provide historical evidence ISLAM has killed 270 million people and counting since the creation of islam. Maybe islam shouldn't had started the first war with the U.S. in 1801! I think your infinitesimal cranium is in need of some edifying and enlightenment to keep you from being vapid.

Baron Eddie said...

ISIS used Ibn Taymiyyah quote for burning the pilot which says
"قال ابن تيمية رحمه الله: وأما إذا كان في التمثيل الشائع دعاء لهم إلى الإيمان أو زجر لهم عن العدوان فإنه هنا من إقامة الحدود والجهاد المشروع".

Ibn Taymiyyah told them that if it is in a rebuke and mutilation(burning is one kind of mutilation) a call for stopping aggression and in that a need for outline and allowed Jihad"

Mutilation (example burning) is allowed if that will get others to Islam faith and/or scaring them.

The pilot was burned by a Fatwa and approved it by the above quotation for Ibn Taymiyyah.
ISIS published this Fatwa online as a Photo.

Baron Eddie said...

Also ISIS used a verse from Quran Surat At-Tawbah

"Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people"

see Tafsir Al Tabari

Baron Eddie said...

ISIS also use Quran Surat An-Nahl 126
"And if you punish [an enemy, O believers], punish with an equivalent of that with which you were harmed. But if you are patient - it is better for those who are patient."

Here as the pilot shot his missiles and burned them so they will do the same.
Patient here is a choice, if you want to be patient don't do it but if not then do it.

Baron Eddie said...

ISIS used Quran Surat Al-Baqarah 194
"[Fighting in] the sacred month is for [aggression committed in] the sacred month, and for [all] violations is legal retribution. So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is with those who fear Him."

Fighting in] the sacred month is for [aggression committed in] the sacred month means do in the same way

used as in "oh Muslims the pilot tried to burn you and kill you ...
you do the same

It is as ISIS said that they have the right to do it

Baron Eddie said...

In Quran Surat Al- Anfal 57
"So if you, [O Muhammad], gain dominance over them in war, disperse by [means of] them those behind them that perhaps they will be reminded."

From Tafsir Ibn Kather for this is to make their punishment severe and so put fear in your enemy ...

And that what ISIS did.

Baron Eddie said...

From Quran Surat Al-Ma idah 33
"Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,"

Here if you are fighting the Islamic State you are considered are fighting against the Messenger and Allah ...
the word "yo katalo / be killed" is severe killing

They have the right to kill severely, crucify, cut hands and feet, and torture

There are more in the Sunah about this But that should be more than enough

Maybe that is why my friend did not want pray for the pilot! even though ISIS is considered a Jewish organization!

Which one is it?

John Lesle said...

So it is ok to kill the infidel, but just not by fire. How loving and peaceful.

NoDhimmi said...

Tabuli Abu

Take your idiotic indoctrinated victim muslim mentality elsewhere; think about 1400 years of muslim genocide of non-muslims resulting in
270 million deaths.

Also think about the lesson of imperial Japan- 2 small atomic bombs cured them of their violent militarism. Islam desperately needs a similar [or worse] lesson...

Osama Abdallah said...

Please show us where Prophet Muhammad burned anyone with fire before. Otherwise, your argument is empty like the empty trinity. Nothing but noise and false conclusions.

Osama Abdallah

Nojmul Huda said...

@Baron Eddie,
Thanks Baron, for referring surah from Quran to proof that Quran is axis of all evils for this current terrorism around the World. Quran makes all Muslims educated/uneducated dummy. They do not see and understand what is written in Quran about their Allah and his Prophet Muhammad, even though they have two eyes and two ears.

If Muhammad’s Allah is creator, why did Muhammad’s Allah need ISIS to kill Christians/Jews/Non-Muslims, to force them support Muhammad’s laws of terrorisms? Why can’t his Allah do by himself if he is so powerful? Why does Muhammad’s Allah give rain, light to all people, if he does not want non-Muslims to live? Muslims wake up and find the truth. It is easy.

We can remember from the Bible that Abraham ask God the Almighty why did God want to kill all good people of Sodom and Gomorrah for the sake of few criminals? We know the answer, Abraham fail to show any holy people. All were corrupted not because they did not worship Him, but they were adulterous and violent, like Muhammad and ISIS.

God is righteous, merciful, and slow to anger. But Muhammad’s Allah is hot tempered, ferocious and cunning. Can any devote Muslims justify why did their Allah need human help to establish laws of terrorism as referred by Baron from Quran?

Glory to God of Heaven and PEACE be on Earth, as He promised!

Foolster41 said...

Man Osama, you really don't know your own religion very well, to have to be educated by Kuffir.

"Kinana b. al-Rabi`, who had the custody of the treasure of B. al-Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (T. was brought) to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kinana, "Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?" he said Yes. The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr b. al-`Awwam, "Torture him until you extract what he has," so he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, translated as, The Life of Muhammad, (tr. A. Guillaume), Karachi: Oxford University Press, 1998, p. 515.)"


Your welcome. So, when are you leaving Islam?

Baron Eddie said...

My friend Osama

The topic here is not the Trinity, but anyway just because you don't understand the Trinity that makes it empty!

Shiaa Muslims are doing the five pillars of Islam and believe in Taweed and said the shahada

Why you(Sunni) are killing them and they are doing what the prophet of Islam taught!

Then burning others (Infidels and hypocrites) should not be a problem ...

I explained it above what ISIS uses to justify burning others and it is all brought by the Prophet of Islam.

Thanks Nojmul Huda for your support
Only In Christ you can forgive your enemies and we don't see that in Islam!

Baron Eddie said...

Here is some references for the prophet of Islam ordering to burn and doing it himself
These from Sahih Albukhary and Sahih Muslim
If you notice that number 4 has a Bab called "if a Mushrik burns a Muslim would he get burned!"

صحيح البخاري كتاب الاذان باب وجوب صلاة الجماعة
حديث أبي هريرة والذي نفسي بيده لقد هممت أن آمر بحطب فيحطب
وأما حديثه في هذا الباب عن أبي الزناد ، عن الأعرج ، عن أبي هريرة أن رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - قال : " والذي نفسي بيده ، لقد هممت أن آمر بحطب فيحطب ، ثم آمر بالصلاة فيؤذن لها ، ثم آمر رجلا فيؤم الناس ثم أخالف إلى رجال فأحرق عليهم بيوتهم [ ص: 323 ]

those are Muslims that did not go to the prayer or late to prayer the prophet of Islam ordered to burn them in their houses

صحيح البخاري كتاب الاذان باب فضل العشاء في الجماعة
عن ابي هريرة قال النبي ليس صلاة اثقل على المنافقين من الفجر والعشاء
حدثنا عمر بن حفص قال حدثنا أبي قال حدثنا الأعمش قال حدثني أبو صالح عن أبي هريرة قال قال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ليس صلاة أثقل على المنافقين من الفجر والعشاء ولو يعلمون ما فيهما لأتوهما ولو حبوا لقد هممت أن آمر المؤذن فيقيم ثم آمر رجلا يؤم الناس ثم آخذ شعلا من نار فأحرق على من لا يخرج إلى الصلاة بعد

This is an order to burn those who don't go to prayers

صحيح مسلم كتاب القسامة و المحابرين باب حكم المحاربين و المرتدين
وحدثنا يحيى بن يحيى التميمي وأبو بكر بن أبي شيبة كلاهما عن هشيم واللفظ ليحيى قال أخبرنا هشيم عن عبد العزيز بن صهيب وحميد عن أنس بن مالك أن ناسا من عرينة قدموا على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم المدينة فاجتووها فقال لهم رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم إن شئتم أن تخرجوا إلى إبل الصدقة فتشربوا من ألبانها وأبوالها ففعلوا فصحوا ثم مالوا على الرعاة فقتلوهم وارتدوا عن الإسلام وساقوا ذود رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فبلغ ذلك النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فبعث في أثرهم فأتي بهم فقطع أيديهم وأرجلهم وسمل أعينهم وتركهم في الحرة حتى ماتوا

Here the prophet punished those Muslims who apostate from Islam and killed the shepherds,
that the prophet cut their hands and legs and heated a nail and shoved it in their eyes and burned it and left them in the desert for dead.

صحيح البخاري كتاب الجهاد و السير
باب اذا حرق المشرك المسلم هل يحرق
حدثنا معلى بن أسد حدثنا وهيب عن أيوب عن أبي قلابة عن أنس بن مالك رضي الله عنه أن رهطا من عكل ثمانية قدموا على النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فاجتووا المدينة فقالوا يا رسول الله ابغنا رسلا قال ما أجد لكم إلا أن تلحقوا بالذود فانطلقوا فشربوا من أبوالها وألبانها حتى صحوا وسمنوا وقتلوا الراعيواستاقوا الذود وكفروا بعد إسلامهم فأتى الصريخ النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فبعث الطلب فما ترجل النهار حتى أتي بهم فقطع أيديهم وأرجلهم ثم أمر بمسامير فأحميت فكحلهم بها وطرحهم بالحرة يستسقون فما يسقون حتى ماتوا

In Conclusion, Yes, the prophet of Islam ordered to burn and he did it too.
So he is an example to follow thus ISIS

Osama Abdallah said...

Baron Eddie,

Either you don't know Arabic and just pasted what was given to you, or YOU ARE ONE CHRISTIAN LIAR.

For hadiths 1 and 2, the Prophet warned the Muslims who were too lazy to prostrate to Allah Almighty, and told them that if he could he would burn them. NO ONE GOT BURNED. SO THAT'S A LIE.

For hadith 3, the Prophet didn't burn anyone. This was the the incident where 4 from the infidels pretended to have embraced Islam, and then when they singled out a shepard, they killed him and stole the camels. The Prophet sent out after them and they were caught. They were brought back and the Prophet ordered for their execution by cutting off their hands and feet. AGAIN, NO BURNING WITH FIRE. ANOTHER LIE EXPOSED.

As to Hadith 4, did you even read the first sentence in it?? It is about IF A DISBELIEVER BURNS A MUSLIM, WHAT SHOULD HIS PUNISHMENT THEN BE?

Your stupid lies had been refuted. As always, you and your likes from the liars think too low of your audiences' intelligence. You thought those quick ones would pass on them. You're either a liar or a non-Arabic speaking ignorant.

Osama Abdallah

Foolster41 said...

@Osama: So no comment on the hadith I posted where Mohamnmad was totally cool with using fire to torture someone for their treasure? Are you completely ignoring me now?

Also I hear nothing but crickets when I challenged you on past lies, so this would be hardly surprising.

smalltallest88 said...

"For hadith 3, the Prophet didn't burn anyone. This was the the incident where 4 from the infidels pretended to have embraced Islam, and then when they singled out a shepard, they killed him and stole the camels. The Prophet sent out after them and they were caught. They were brought back and the Prophet ordered for their execution by cutting off their hands and feet. AGAIN, NO BURNING WITH FIRE. ANOTHER LIE EXPOSED."

It's either you're a dunce or you don't reason at all. The prophet never burn anybody but order their execution. To burn and to execute someone, are they not to kill that person? Weather you burn or execute a person, the goal is to kill such a man. Dude use your brain next time. #Shalom

smalltallest88 said...


You're not even ashame to typed it that the most peaceful man according to your nonsensical religion order the execution of a person and you dare open your mouth and called such a man a prophet.

Show us a verse in the Bible where Jesus Christ order the execution of a man? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone! That is the level of love you can get from Christ.

Brother we're expecting you to denounce that your religion and embrace the TRUTH in JESUS CHRIST. He will gladly accept you into HIS Kingdom.

aaron said...


last time i check you lied about 1 Corinthians 5:5 and still haven;t admitted it

Baron Eddie said...

My friend Osama
I am one Christian who prays for you ...

Number 4
" They were brought back and the Prophet ordered for their execution by cutting off their hands and feet."

No, the prophet did not order (He did it himself), Let us google translate it

فقطع أيديهم وأرجلهم = And cut off their hands and feet

and then the hadith says that the prophet ordered them to heat up nails
and the prophet burned their eyes.

If you are allowed to burn an eye ... you are allowed to burn all parts of body.

The other hadiths are very clearly says that the prophet ordered and he did too burn them in their houses.

That is why we see examples all over the world for burning churches and believers

History does not lie ...

Also you missed all Quranic verses above

Qatar Published Fatwa In 2006 Permitting Burning People — Removes It After ISIS Burns Pilot

Osama Abdallah said...

"@Osama: So no comment on the hadith I posted where Mohamnmad was totally cool with using fire to torture someone for their treasure? Are you completely ignoring me now? "

Produce your proof if ye are Truthful, as the Glorious Quran Commands. Let's see if you're another liar.

Osama Abdallah

Baron Eddie said...

Here is a link to a web site called Elaph which is Islamic site that google translate from Arabic

It mention a person name ابن المقفع "the Son Muqaffa" that his hands and legs were cut and were

burned while he was watching his body parts burning

Read me

this is the Arabic site link which were translated

Arabic site

I think this is the next technique that ISIS will use

Osama Abdallah said...


last time i check you lied about 1 Corinthians 5:5 and still haven;t admitted it"

Let us examine this 1 Corinthians 5:5 which proves that Paul was false:

1 Corinthians 5:5
5 hand this person over to the devil. His body is to be destroyed so his spirit may be saved on the day the Lord comes again.

So here Paul orders the killing of the sinner so that the latter's soul would be saved. How does Paul know that the sinner is a believer in order for his soul to have a chance to be saved?

Where did I lie about Paul?

Osama Abdallah

aaron said...


Please read what you wrote here
"Let us examine this 1 Corinthians 5:5 which proves that Paul was false:

1 Corinthians 5:5
5 hand this person over to the devil. His body is to be destroyed so his spirit may be saved on the day the Lord comes again.

So here Paul orders the killing of the sinner so that the latter's soul would be saved. How does Paul know that the sinner is a believer in order for his soul to have a chance to be saved?

Where did I lie about Paul?
Osama please learn to read the rest of the chapter because this is not good for you

"9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

The purpose of Paul's letter was to disassociate with the sinful brother as he stated in black and white. so your interpretation would prove false

Rosina said...


Paul did not order a man 's death in what he uttered.
You lack spiritual understanding of Biblical Scripture. I will not even try to explain it for i doubt you seek to know truth, instead abusing scripture to prove your violent point which is contrary to teachings of Christ Jesus.

If you seek God, He will be found. If you seek spiritual understanding that only the Holy Spirit can reveal. He will give it. But seek to know the One True God of the bible.
But you accuse and lie and curse the Only One who is able to forgive you. You are an agent of hatred. Repent while you still can.
You said you didn't want what Christianity offers, are you refusing forgiveness of sin, being reconciled to God the Father, Creator of all things. And the gift of Eternal life in the Kingdom of heaven.
That is what await you if you repent. So consider Who and what you are rejecting.

One day, you will stand before God Almighty and you will have to give an account of yourself including why you have rejected His covenant.

The Lord God is Sovereign, He is Holy. He cannot dishonour Himself thus He will not allow unrepentant persons to enter His rest. HE IS THE LORD GOD.

Stick man Sam said...

Its funny how Osama Abdullah loves spamming this site.

Every post he will insult trinity, try to refute points of his absurd beliefs by ridicilous answers and spam the page with websites that are very ridicilous and time wasting.

May The Holy Spirit guide him

Stick man Sam said...

Its funny to see Osama constantly spamming this page with his useless attacks on trinity as a response to what is pointed about Islam.

I guess tu quoque is irresistible for him lol

Foolster41 said...

Osama: Are you having trouble reading? I provided the proof by quoting the Hadith above. But if your looking for a location reference (which is, I admit absent from the quote, I think it's Al-Tabari, Vol. 8, p. 122, See Also Ishaq:515)

RE: 1 Chron 5:5.

Hmm, it's interesting you used the NLV version and not the more common NIV. Was this because it's the version you usually use, or was this intentional? If you had used NIV you would have noticed a note on that verse.

" In contexts like this, the Greek word for flesh (sarx) refers to the sinful state of human beings, often presented as a power in opposition to the Spirit."

So, flesh is not understood as the literal body.

Let's look at how Christian commentators look at this verse.

"5. To deliver such a one unto Satan. Not only this one, but all such persons. To deliver unto Satan is to excommunicate; to extradite from the kingdom of God to the prince of this world. The expression is used in 1 Tim. 1:20" (People's New Testament, 1981)

More commentaries can be found here.
They all interpret "deliver to Satan" as excommunication.

You are intentionally misrepresenting a verse, putting an understanding of it that has not been used by the church in the last 2,000 years. Imagine what would happen if one of us tried to do the same thing for the Koran or Hadiths! Thanks for once again showing how dishonest you are!

Osama Abdallah said...

Baron Eddie,

Again, the Prophet threatened people with fire, and perhaps even had Muslims scare those who didn't want to Pray, but NO ONE WAS BURNED, let alone KILLED.

As to Qatar issuing a fatwa allowing for burning as a punishment, the fact that it needed a fatwa, and ONLY QATAR ISSUED IT, shows that this is not a standard Islamic practice. Qatar would not need to issue fatwa on the for example fasting the Month of Ramadan, because that is a given. You don't need fatwas for things that are agreed upon in Islam. But for side things that have both agreements and disagreements, then fatwas are issued.

The Prophet's command is clear: DO NOT burn people with fire. This is the very hadith that even David Wood posted for this thread.

If people issue fatwas for certain situations, then that's there thing. But this doesn't apply to all Muslims and to Islam. Qatar's fatwa is isolated to Qatar.

And let me now ask you about what king David did when he killed the messenger who brought him bad news. KING DAVID IN THE BIBLE SAID THAT he killed the messenger just because he brought the bad news:

2 Samuel 4
10 when a man told me, 'Saul is dead,' and thought he was bringing good news, I seized him and put him to death in Ziklag. That was the reward I gave him for his news!

If Prophet Muhammad did it, you'd be vomiting all over the place for it. But when it's in the Bible, it's ok.

Visit the following link to see AMPLE CUTTING OFF OF HANDS AND FEET and killing of people in the Bible:

As to praying for me, you don't need to pray for me, because I am neither an infidel nor am I persecuting you. You're the infidel that needs prayers, and believe it or not, I do pray for you guys, because you are no less than polytheist trinitarian pagans. You are not monotheists.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Hiwot said...

Osama, do you know how to read and understand English? 1Cor5:5 - says his flesh to be destructed by Satan not by humans. - "turn that one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh..." not "turn that one over to human for the destruction of the flesh..."

It was Paul's code for the exclusion of unrepentant offender from the congregation to the outside world where Satan dominated that where this man belonged. This exclusion was redemptive in intent. Let the bitterness and darkness of the world outside bring its own impact on the man so that he might repent and restored (2Th3:14-15).

Foolster41 said...

Osama: It's clear you have no bottom depth when it comes to misusing scripture. There's a number of problems with your using that 2 Sam verse as proof of hypocracy:

1.)King David is not a prophet who is to be emulated. He did many terrible things. There is nothing in the verse that approves of what David does (nor anything disproving for that matter). Mohmmad is a prophet who is said to be the perfect example of mankind.

2.)King David was killing a man who admitted to murdering a man (Context is 2 Sam 1), who he had ordered was not to be harmed.Are you saying you a problem with people executing murderers? If so, YOU have the problem of hypocrisy in YOUR position!

Also, you complain when Qouran verses are taken out of context, but you have no problem with taking verses from the OT or NT out of context! You are a hypocrite!

Yet again you show how either ignorant or dishonest you are!

You've been thoroughly refuted on 1 Cor 5:5, are you going to apologize for that, or contenue to stubbornly hold on to your wrong position?

smalltallest88 said...


When are you going to start reading the whole story you found in the Bible. Well base on your claimed that David slew the man that brought him the bad news about Saul's death. The next verse says "11 How much more, when wicked men have slain a righteous person in his own house upon his bed? shall I not therefore now require his blood of your hand, and take you away from the earth?" 2Sam4:11

I think you read 2Samuel and miss thee reason why David slew that young man. Read 2Samuel 1:1-17. The young man was slew because he has slew God anointed king Saul and take note of another thing in that story. David never did that on the account of God but on his own account. 16 "And David said unto him, Thy blood be upon thy head; for thy mouth hath testified against thee, saying, I have slain the Lord's anointed."

Muhammad on on the order account did his killings in the name of Allah and on Allah's command. David did his on his own accord and not what God commanded him to do. Peace be upon you as you still keep trying to force error on the scriptures.

Baron Eddie said...

Osama, you are entitled for your opinion but the text says otherwise, and reality shows that burning has been used from time of the prophet of Islam until today.

Islam is very elastic, you can say "you have your own religion and I have mine" and also at times "Islam is the religion to follow or else"

There are a lot of stuff not translated to other languages and if it translated will be sugar coated and that is the fact.

Gazza Sloane said...

Osama when will u start listening to what we say about the bible?

Unlike the Quran which you believe to be perfect and contains all perfect teachings, the bible is much more than a book of teachings. It is a historical document containing accounts of events. Basically, just because David killed a messenger does not mean God approved of it. Solomon having 700 wives does not mean God approves of it. But it is still recorded.

To answer your statement of IF muhammad did it. YES! WE WOULD BE CRITICAL! Because Muslims say he was perfect and a role model for mankind.

No christian or Jew would say Solomon or David or Isaac or Abraham was perfect. It seems we understand that man is not perfect, but can still deliver a message from God. Look at your favourite New Testament Apostle Paul, he was murdering Christians left right and centre but God used him to become one of the greatest teachers of Jesus' message.

Osama Abdallah said...

"Osama, do you know how to read and understand English? 1Cor5:5 - says his flesh to be destructed by Satan not by humans. - "turn that one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh..." not "turn that one over to human for the destruction of the flesh...""

My dear Hiwot,

I read in one of the footnote or in some Biblical text that the text said to KILL THE SINNER.
Your English translators are ashamed of the Bible, which is why they had to play and twist with the words, as they do with the trinity to prove its falsehood.

I will write an article about this very verse probably this weekend, Insha'Allah. You have motivated me.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Stick man Sam said...

Osama, the reason why the person in 2 Samuel 4:10 got killed by David is because, the person went and took Sauls crown and armor when Saul killed himself, this person wanted a reward from David by looking as if he was the one who killed Saul.

But David knew that the person had evilness and greed in his heart trying to boost something false so he killed him as his reward, because the man was doing this in greed and evilness.

So this different from Muhammad, Muhammad kills people if they don't obey him as the desert prophet and his puppet god Allah.

In the Bible, killing was done in mostly political and militant reasons, there's no where in the bible where God tells people to slay everyone for the sake of Judaism or Christianity :)

But in Islam, you will find that your god commands killing for his selfish cause

And we Christians are monotheists but u are desperate to prove our trinity wrong :) disproving trinity will never work, you're trying to disprove God's Nature

It's amusing that in order to prove that your religion is peaceful u will have to try to prove that ours is violent.

And why do u send those ridiculous websites? Do u honestly think that its a good page just because u put different colors for titles but ridicilous claims and misconceptions like a typical Muslim

Its sad that ISIS are following footsteps of Muhammad and Abu bakr by burning captives, it would have been better if they burnt the Quran instead...

But oh well, I guess that burning a human being is more acceptable than burning a book containing lies, rapes, promoting violence for the sake of a desert god who made himself known in a cave to an Arab caravan trader...

Osama Abdallah said...


1 Corinthians 5:5

1 Corinthians 5:5New Life Version (NLV)

5 hand this person over to the devil. His body is to be destroyed so his spirit may be saved on the day the Lord comes again.

1 Corinthians 5:5New Century Version (NCV)

5 then hand this man over to Satan. So his sinful self[a] will be destroyed, and his spirit will be saved on the day of the Lord.

a.5:5 sinful self Literally, “flesh.” This could also mean his body.

If Paul meant that the person will sin so much that he will eventually realize that he sinned, and then repent and be saved on the day of the Lord, then Paul should've articulated it better. We have to read this into the text in order to eliminate the interpretation that Paul ordered for the actual killing of the flesh.

Anyway, I never even wrote an article about this. We have far greater reasons that disprove Paul. You can visit the Bible section on my website to see them.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Timothy said...

Hello, David

please take a gander at Thomas Wictor's debunking of the pilot's burning

that is the good news: the pilot was not burned alive. The bad news is that IS has burned alive others.
I believe this lie will come back to haunt and discredit those cowards.

Richard said...

David, the Quran has many verses urging Muslims to terrorise, kill, conquer and subjugate non-Muslims, just like Muhammad did himself, but did you know the Quran acknowledges that Allah and Muhammad are one and the same?

That Allah is Muhammad's invention?

This is how the Quran slips up:

1. Allah salutes Muhammad - "....And when they come to thee, they salute thee, not as Allah salutes thee, (but in crooked ways):....." 58:8 Yusuf Ali

2. Explicitly - The verses 4:150 - 151 say "Verily, those who disbelieve in Allah and His Messengers and wish to make distinction between Allah and His Messengers (by believing in Allah and disbelieving in His Messengers) saying, "We believe in some but reject others," and wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment."

"Humiliation" and "Humiliating Punishment" is of course Islam-speak for death by inhuman torture, such as beheading or burning alive etc.

The Tafsir of Ibn Kathir clearly says this is meant for Jews who reject Christ and Muhammad and Christians who reject Muhammad and is meant really for those who reject Muhammad, as Muhammad is really concerned about himself more than any one else.

Thus the verses say there is no distinction between Allah and Muhammad - they are one and the same.

This is further borne out by the Shahada, where you do not become a Muslim by merely saying - There is no God but Allah. You have to say There is no God but Allah AND Muhammad is his prophet.

aaron said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Hiwot said...

Osama, do you even read your own post? You posted: "1 Corinthians 5:5New Century Version (NCV)

5 then hand this man over to Satan. So his sinful self[a] will be destroyed, and his spirit will be saved on the day of the Lord."

Does it say "hand this man over to human?" - it says, "hand this man over to Satan..." Whether his body or flesh, it was going to be destroyed by Satan not by human. No where it says to be killed by human but to be destroyed by Satan since he will be handed over to Satan not to human.

Foolster41 said...

Osama: Once again you're ignoring me.

"If Paul meant that the person will sin so much that he will eventually realize that he sinned, and then repent and be saved on the day of the Lord, then Paul should've articulated it better. We have to read this into the text in order to eliminate the interpretation that Paul ordered for the actual killing of the flesh."

Haha, Osama you are no bible scholar! You mean "the obvious way" it's read into that no bible scholar, apostle or follower of Christ has understand that verse to mean in the last 2000 years? There is no explicit command to kill in this verse, even if "body' is literal.

If you'd bothered to read the source I gave above you'd find:

" I deliver him to thee", that is, to Satan; and which was done, that his body might be smote with sore boils by him, as it was; only his life was to be preserved, that he was not suffered to touch." (Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible).

I find it interesting, you complain about how Christians uncharitably interpret Q. 9:29, and you claim it simply does not say to kill unbelievers (Maybe Mohammad/Allah should have articulated it better!), and then you take a verse like 1 Cor 5:5 that doesn't explicitly say to kill and say it does. This just shows how you really are a completely unethical hypocrite!

You've been also thoroughly refuted on your claims about 2 Sam as well, but I expect you won't apologize on that and will double down as you did with 1 Cor 5:5, because you don't want to give up what precious little ammo (flimsy as it is) you have against Christianity.

Herakleios said...

@Osama: Your seriously base all your argument on ONE ENGLISH translation?
How about looking at this:
παραδοῦναι τὸν τοιοῦτον τῷ σατανᾷ εἰς ὄλεθρον τῆς σαρκός, ἵνα τὸ πνεῦμα σωθῇ ἐν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ τοῦ κυρίου. (NA28)

I am not a native english speaker (i am german), but i will try to give a translation into english.
For the start a german version:
ihn zu übergeben dem Satan zum Verderben des Fleisches, auf daß der Geist selig werde am Tage des HERRN Jesu.

The german translation is actually very good and close to the greek.

So, what is my translation:

"hand him over to satan,for the destruction of the body, so that the spirit will be saved in the day of the lord."

The part "for the destruction of the body" - εἰς ὄλεθρον τῆς σαρκός - it cleary is meaning the result, that happens when you are handed over to satan. When satan takes control of you. It nowhere states, that he should be killed.
I am not an expert in greek, but i can assure you, that anyone more capable than me, would suggest a similar way of understanding this text.
Stop reading things into bible-verses that are clearly not there. The author never intended to communicate such a thing and please treat the bible in the same way, that you want christians to treat the quran.

Stick man Sam said...

Honestly it's boring and annoying to talk to a liar like Osama who thinks his lies are right. Listening to him is less entertaining I can reassure you.

Anyways since he can put up articles of trying to expose Trinity, I think that the only fair thing to do is to strike back and expose his lies in return from articles i found which already responded to this man who's trying to troll for the things which are already answered

aaron said...

@Osama baka

"If Paul meant that the person will sin so much that he will eventually realize that he sinned, and then repent and be saved on the day of the Lord, then Paul should've articulated it better. We have to read this into the text in order to eliminate the interpretation that Paul ordered for the actual killing of the flesh."

and if you read the rest of the chapter instead of reading just one verse paul further explained what was to be done. so he did articulate better but you never read those parts

aaron said...

@Osama baka

Not to mention when handing a person over to satan its normally used in the by paul to teach the sinner a lesson so they understood their wrongs by letting them continue till they realize their sin

"Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme."

1 timothy 1:20

Paige said...

Dear Osama,

Baron Eddie said "It is as ISIS said that they have the right to do it."

In this brief sentence, Baron Eddie has summarily hit upon a very central issue that it seems many Muslims are militantly determined to ignore, and with good reason!

If I were a Muslim in a Western country, I would want to convince the world that ISIS, Al-Quaeda, Hezbollah, Boko Haram, the Muslim Brotherhood,the Indian Mujahideen or any other of the hundreds of explicitly Islamic terrorists groups in the world, did not find their inspiration in the Qur'an or in the Hadiths.

I would want to if I were Muslim, but if I were an honest person, I could not.

At best Osama, you can argue that they have 'misunderstood' the Qur'anic injunctions and the teaching of the Hadiths, but you cannot say that injunctions and teaching that sanctions their behaviour do not exist.

Even the most liberal Muslim man knows that Allah has given him divine permission to physically punish his wife if she will not obey him (Sura 4:34). He may not act on this, he may even disagree with this injunction, but his opinions are only that, his opinions. The sura legitimizes a husband's right to physically punish his wife. (whether it's done with the tip of a handerchief or not!).

This is but one sura that validates the use of force, you know yourself there are hundreds more. Terrorists do not have to look far to find verses where Allah himself promises rewards to those who will murder in his name.

A recent study of ISIS recruits showed that many came from middle class educated background, most in the twenties, many from universities. Well versed in not only the Qur'an and the established Hadiths, they are familiar with the works of the great scholars such as Al-Ghazali.

You cannot continue to assert that there are a few "garbage Muslims" messing up your otherwise perfect religion and be done with it. It is not reasonable to assert that you are right in your understanding of Islam and ISIS are wrong, when they draw their argument from primary evidence and you draw your argument from hypothetical evidence.

Osama, you rejected Baron Eddie's prayers as if you were afraid of them. It is clear that he meant only good towards you so this was a strange reaction. I am praying for you too, and as with Baron Eddie's prayers, you have no need to be afraid.

aaron said...

Everyone knows that the original sin was what led to the destruction of flesh so i have no problem with the use of that word and when put into the rest of the chapter which point out not to do daily activities such as eating with such people. which means the people in question is clearly alive.

Not to mention if you kill the person he would not have the chance to repent thus this means he would not be saved. If the verse in question was a case of bringing judgement upon the sinful brother then the destruction would be carried out by god or his agents. So it would not be handed to satan but instead be handed to god and his agents.

so you can either except explanation that makes sense or you can go ahead and go with the explanation that doesn't which isn't saying much since you don;t even realize you are wrong when you confuse the size of the planet and its mass in your adam is 90 feet tall article, especially when you do the math behind it.

Osama Abdallah said...


I am neither scared nor running away.
It is you who is desperate to prove anything on Islam. I have already debated David Wood on ISIS and thoroughly refuted all of the nonsense that is being spewed on Islam. Those rotten terrorists that you mentioned are either:

1- Middle Easter and African Jews pretending to be Muslims.

2- Stupid and illiterate Muslims who don't know any better.

Like NYC has two major infestations: one with rats and the other with Jews, we also have some infestation of Jews in the Middle East and Africa, which makes it very easy for them to behead people (today they beheaded 21 Christians), and bomb Churches. The Glorious Quran forbids killing of civilians. This had been thoroughly proven.

And I don't need your empty prayers. They don't mean a thing to me. I have a DIRECT CONNECTION with my Creator, The Almighty, and I feel His Peace come to my heart on regular basis. It is you and your polytheist Trinitarian pagans WHO ARE NOT AT PEACE with either GOD Almighty or with themselves, which is why you always have to constantly debate whether Jesus GOD. I know it's very frustrating to you, because you always have the confusion clouding you, and your ISLAMIC FITRAH that you were born with eats you alive by telling you that your beliefs are all false and are nothing but conjecture, as Allah Almighty summed up Christianity in this word.

I said it before and will say it to you also Paige: Trinity and Atheism are very similar religions. They both are "WE CAN ONLY CONCLUDE" false religions:

1- We can ONLY CONCLUDE that Jesus is the Creator of the Universe.

2- We can ONLY CONCLUDE that GOD doesn't exist.

You're both are two sides of one coin. So no thank you, I do not want AT ALL your prayers. They're empty.

I hope my words will make sense to you.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Foolster41 said...

As I expected, Osama posted again, but no apollogies for his inconsistant and hypocritical readings of 1 Cor 5:5 or 2 Sam 4. The crickets are deafening.

Stick man Sam said...

"2- Stupid and illiterate Muslims who don't know any better."

So Osama admits that there are stupid and illiterate Muslims in his religion lol. Its nice to hear that u can outsmart your fellow Muslims when it comes to intelligence perhaps Allah bestowed u more intelligence than all Muslims and thats why Muslims like Nadir Ahmed call u "kafir" for inheriting this "undefinable intelligence".

"Like NYC has two major infestations: one with rats and the other with Jews, we also have some infestation of Jews in the Middle East and Africa, which makes it very easy for them to behead people (today they beheaded 21 Christians), and bomb Churches. The Glorious Quran forbids killing of civilians. This had been thoroughly proven."

So ISIS is Jewish? Like your Jewish conspiracy theories which have no proof but must make sense because u have "undefinable intelligence". Since when did Jews kill for the sake of Osama bin Laden? Was Osama Bin Laden Jewish? As far as I know Osama (the terrorist, not to be mistaken with the Muslim "undefinable intelligence") was antisemitic.

Quran promotes killing in many verses but u just ignore no matter how u get enlightened in your debates. So Jews bomb churches? Jews kill for Osama bin laden?
Very silly theories made by you. Islamic extremists are killing Christians , bombing churches, but u who cant bare the reality violence of Quran, you decide to blame it on the Jews just like how Medeival Europeans used to blame Jews for their sickness.

I bet that u would blame a Jew everytime you're sick or any bad tragedies are all caused by Jews according to u

"I hope my words will make sense to you."

Sorry this words don't make sense to anyone except the Muslim with undefinable intelligence (Osama).

Osama you have many misconception of trinity and hatred for Christianity. Even when u write or speak you're doing it out of hatred to win arguments, not out of attempting to win hearts.

So we all can see the limits of your "undefinable intelligence".

Turn to Christ, He's Lord.

Trevor said...

Osama you said: “I have a DIRECT CONNECTION with my Creator, The Almighty, and I feel His Peace come to my heart on regular basis.”

That would be a temporary false peace that comes from the devil who speaks to you and says: “Don’t worry Osama, you don’t need this Jesus to take your sins away because I, Satan, who pretends to be God (“I will be like the Most High.” Isaiah 14:14. For Satan transforms himself into an angel of light. 2 Cor. 11:14), and tells all you poor Muslims and the followers of Judaism and the followers of the Pope that to gain salvation you must first gain credit by following God’s Law to the letter.”

But, Osama, what you poor Muslims and the followers of Judaism and followers of the Pope have not grasped is that the Law’s spiritual office (as opposed to its lesser earthly civil office) is itself not a means of salvation at all, but simply a way for God to drive us to despair of ourselves and our own efforts and merits (since no man can follow the Law to the letter and without resentment) and on to the foot of the Cross where we, having had our weak sinful natures fully exposed to ourselves, and being truly humbled and beaten down and being hungry and thirsty for righteousness (Matt. 5:6, John 6:35; 7:37), are then fit to accept God’s grace (God’s unmerited/unearned favor), the free gift of salvation and eternal life (Revelation 21:1-4).

Now the gift of salvation from God is free (priceless) and so cannot be bought by us with personal merit/credit or abilities or in following the Law or by doing good deeds. It is free because it has already been bought and paid for on the Cross. To try to pay for something that God has determined to give us for free is an affront to God and a sin which only takes us further away from it. The more we stubbornly try to work our way into heaven by the Law and good deeds, the more we pile sin on top of sin and condemn ourselves even further. To try to gain credit for salvation by following the Law is just an abuse of the Law since that was never its intended purpose.

Now your Muhammad, who, in the end, did not know if he was saved or not, also followed the devil’s false doctrine and tried to gain salvation by good deeds and works of the Law as he in turn also advised his followers to do in his Quran. He rejected the only means of salvation which is through Christ (John 14:6), and trusted in his own abilities and merits, to his own destruction.

Nojmul Huda said...

"Like NYC has two major infestations: one with rats and the other with Jews, we also have some infestation of Jews in the Middle East and Africa...," Osama Abdullah

@ Osama Abdullah,

The above statement proves that you are a Jewish phobia and you must be charged for hate crime against Jews in American laws. Don't think being Muslims American laws permits you to hate Jews and blame them for all terrorist activities. Even liberal media and President Obama can't protect you. No one is above the laws.

In all terrorist activities even Shia Sunni fight, you blame Jews without any proof. One day you may blame Jews writing Quran hating Christians and other 5 billion non-Muslims to create hates against Muhammad, a friend of all people, Muslims and non-Muslims. Those days are not far away.

smalltallest88 said...


1- "Middle Easter and African Jews pretending to be Muslims.

I don't know if I have much to say to you again cos you have always proved that you're not a muslim but a jew. Since you're sure they are jews, I will suggest you go into their camp and pretend like a jew and let us see if you will come out of that camp alive as a jew. Even as a muslim you can't come out alive from the ISIS camp since it will be very easy to detect kafir like you.

2- Stupid and illiterate Muslims who don't know any better."

You thik you know more than ISIS, Boko Haram etc. Maybe you call one of their leader to debate if what they are doing is Islamic or not. You know for sure if you debate the reliability of what they do that you'll always come out a loser even if you do it 1001 times. You did it with Dr. David Wood, you ran out of words to say instead came up with video done by some dude you know to do you talking. May Jesus arrest you like He did with Paul. #Shalom

aaron said...


last time he said he was going to respond and I got nothing instead

aaron said...

Osama should change his name to Osama hitler not abdullah.

For him its always those pesky JEWS

The next thing i am going to hear from him is probably along the lines of the lunar landing was a hoax and it was done by the Jews

Is he going to tell us terrorist attacks from muslims in a place where there is no jewish population such as in china that the jewish boogey man was behind it next?

Paige said...

Dear Osama,

Others have eloquently responded to your extremely problematic claims, so I will address only a few.

You said:
"I am neither scared nor running away"

I did not say you were "running away" these are your words not mine. I wrote "Osama, you rejected Baron Eddie's prayers as if you were afraid of them. It is clear that he meant only good towards you so this was a strange reaction.

I wrote to tell you that I was praying for you also, not to demean or deride you, but to show you that, despite your hatred, God loves you. This seemed to incite you even further.

Osama, if you are right and I am a polytheist pagan, then my prayers are indeed "empty" and can do you no harm. If I am right then my prayers are not empty and God is listening as I ask Him to reveal to you how much He loves you. Either way, it's a win/win situation for you Osama so there's no need to reject my prayers.

Your rejection of me, however, is not important but I do take deep and profound offence at your hateful and vitriolic comments about the Jewish people. I have no idea what has motivated your contempt for the children of Abraham but I suggest that you ask yourself where these feelings will lead you.

No other people group in history has ever faced such constant, intense and almost unrelenting persecution and discrimination, yet here they are today. Historians cannot explain how the Jewish people, a relatively small people group, have survived so many attempts to extinguish their light. Their survival and their vitality is a miracle and cannot be explained by any other means than God's divine protection.

I would caution you not to think lightly of your words and actions towards them Osama, as if despising the living God and His creations will not have consequences.

Yet, whatever is ahead of you, you can be assured that Christians will be praying for you whether you want them to or not.

Stick man Sam said...

Smallesttallest88 lol :) maybe Osama can debate with Jihadi John on beheading ( i am sure jihadi john wouldn't forget to bring his knife just in case Osama says that Islam doenst support ISIS)

Foolster41 said...

"Like NYC has two major infestations: one with rats and the other with Jews, "
Islamic Antisemetism ladies and gentlemen. It's in the Quoran, and so is a built-in part of Islam.

Here is a good reminder of the results of such ideology:

Foolster41 said...

"I am neither scared nor running away." - Osama.

Which is why you go silent from topics and move to new ones and refuse to either answer with facts or apologize for your false claims about the bible (2 Sam, 1 Cor 5:5, and now the moon woshiping claim, etc.). Uh huh.

Paige said...

Dear Osama,

I do not want you to feel as if you are being trapped into a corner, that is not my intention, however, Foolster41 makes an excellent observation.

Ignoring our personal disagreement, there is a large amount of silence and logical fallacy in your arguments that makes having discussions and coming to conclusions very difficult.

I too have noticed that you often avoid answering questions by not responding; by personally attacking the enquirer; by adding criteria to the initial question; or by reverting to the 'No True Scotmans' arguments (ie. making an appeal to absolute purity so you don't have to answer reasonable questions).

Granted we all commit these logical fallacies in our arguments at times, especially when we get heated, but this seems to have become a pattern in your method of arguing.

Of course, you can tell yourself that my mind is too corrupted to receive what you have to say, but that's just another logical fallacy and according to the Qur'an, Allah will decide if I have chosen the right path, so it is an Islamic fallacy as well.

The Qur'an teaches that the wisdom of Islam should be explained to me through "beautiful preaching" and open dialogue (16:125). I am a Christian and therefore am not a Kaf'r who you can disregard. Da'wah is part of your obligation before Allah.

What I'm saying is that I'm sincerely and earnestly very eager to continue our dialogues. I'm not interested in slanging matches, keeping score, nor in attacking you personally, but I am interested in the truth.

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Peace to you and your family,