Thursday, January 1, 2015

God OUR Father

One of the chief benefits of the Gospel is that God the Father adopts us as His children through Christ, His co-eternal and co-essential Son. Since Muslims do not believe in the Son of God, they neither know God as their Father nor do they worship the Father. Muslims will sometimes deny this and pretend that they believe in and worship the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, but those who know better say otherwise.



Since Muslims believe they are brothers and sisters but deny that God is their Father, the million dollar question is: "If all Muslims are brothers and sisters, then who is their common father?

Either Muslims must reckon themselves to be cosmic orphans, something Jesus said was not true of His followers (John 14:18), or they must own up to the fact that they are sons and daughters of someone else. But who could that be? As the old saying goes, this means they are stuck between the Devil and the deep blue sea.

64 comments:

Syed Sye said...

adam and eve are father and mother of human being

Anthony Rogers said...

Syed,

That is irrelevant. If all Muslims mean by saying they are brothers and sisters is that they are descended from Adam and Eve, then that would include other pagans besides Muslims, and it would also include Jews and Christians. But Muslims claim to be brothers and sisters in Islam. Since Muslims deny the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, who is their father?

RMuhammad said...

Anthony, Muslims will say we are all brothers and sisters in Abraham. The follow-up question would be the same, that is, who is the father of Abraham. Since Muslims claim this "universal brotherhood in Abraham" is ultimately a spiritual one, then that means they have to believe in the same spiritual Father of Abraham, and they don't. Abraham is found in Genesis, and the Qur'anic "genesis" account differs from the correct, Biblical account. Islam is further hung by the hadeeth since "Allah" claims to have written the Torah (which includes Genesis) with his own hand:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Adam and Moses argued with each other. Moses said to Adam. 'O Adam! You are our father who disappointed us and turned us out of Paradise.' Then Adam said to him, 'O Moses! Allah favored you with His talk (talked to you directly) and HE WROTE (the Torah) for you with HIS OWN HAND. Do you blame me for action which Allah had written in my fate forty years before my creation?' So Adam confuted Moses, Adam confuted Moses," the Prophet added, repeating the Statement three times. (Bukhari, 8.77.611)

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him) as saying: There was an argument between Adam and Moses. Moses said to Adam: You are our father. You did us harm and caused us to get out of Paradise. Adam said to him: You are Moses. Allah selected you (for direct conversation with you) and WROTE with HIS OWN HAND the Book (Torah) for you. Despite this you blame me for an act which Allah had ordained for me forty years before He created me. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: This is how Adam came the better of Moses and Adam came the better of Moses. (Muslim, 33.6409)

Abu Hurairah reported the Messenger of Allah (May peace be upon him) as saying: Adam and Moses held a disputation. Moses said: Adam you are our father. You deprived us and caused us to come out from Paradise. Adam said: You are Moses Allah chose you for his speech and WROTE the Torah for you WITH HIS HAND. Do you blame me for doing a deed which Allah had decreed that I should do forty year before he created me? So Adam got the better of Moses in argument. Ahmad b. Salih said from 'Amr from Tawus who heard Abu Hurairah. (Abi Dawud, 41.4684)

It is hardly surprising then to read the following in Kitab al-Sunna, which many Muslims believe to have been written by ‘Abduallah b. Ahmad, the son of the famed Ahmad b. Hanbal, but which in any case shows how at least some Muslims took teachings of this sort.

"Allah wrote the Torah for Moses with His hand while leaning back on a rock, on tablets of pearl, and the screech of the quill could be heard. There was no veil between Him and him," (Vol. 1, p. 294)

So, Allah writes two contradictory books: Qur'an and Bible? This is the "father" Muslims want us to believe in! The Muslim god is not even a father to Muslims as he claims to have no children, rather only slaves (Muslims).

Paul Rantau said...

I can't help feeling sorry for Muslims who are led astray by Allah. Allah even decides who among the Muslim are to end up in Jahanam irrespective whether in life they have been faithful to the teaching of Islam.

Those Muslims who claim that they are part of humanity - that naturally includes the Jews who according to Allah are descended from monkeys and pigs.

Mark Bennett said...

RMuhammad said: "Anthony, Muslims will say we are all brothers and sisters in Abraham"

Here is what Qur'an asserts:

"Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing. 33:40

The disavowing of Mohammed as Father seems to go hand in hand with his existence as Allah's messenger, along with having been one of many prophets, they are slaves, wars and messengers but not Fathers. The logic of the verse would then imply other prophets and messengers were merely messengers and prophets yet not fathers.

Abraham is referred to in the Qu'ran predictably not as a Father but as in the following:

"Lo, I have appointed you a leader for mankind". [2.124]

It was further prohibited for Zaid (and others) to refer to Zaid as "ibn Muhammad" due to Allah revealing the following:

Narrated `Aisha:

(the wife of the Prophet) Abu Hudhaifa, one of those who fought the battle of Badr, with Allah's Apostle adopted Salim as his son and married his niece Hind bint Al-Wahd bin `Utba to him' and Salim was a freed slave of an Ansari woman. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) also adopted Zaid as his son. In the Prelslamic period of ignorance the custom was that, if one adopted a son, the people would call him by the name of the adopted-father whom he would inherit as well, till Allah revealed: "Call them (adopted sons) By (the names of) their fathers." (33.5) [Sahih Bukhari - Book 64, Hadith 51]

This was also prohibited for other adopted sons:

Narrated `Aisha:

Abu Hudhaifa bin `Utba bin Rabi`a bin `Abdi Shams who had witnessed the battle of Badr along with the Prophet (ﷺ) adopted Salim as his son, to whom he married his niece, Hind bint Al-Walid bin `Utba bin Rabi`a; and Salim was the freed slave of an Ansar woman, just as the Prophet (ﷺ) had adopted Zaid as his son. It was the custom in the Pre-lslamic Period that if somebody adopted a boy, the people would call him the son of the adoptive father and he would be the latter's heir. But when Allah revealed the Divine Verses: 'Call them by (the names of) their fathers... your freed-slaves,' (33.5) the adopted persons were called by their fathers' names. The one whose father was not known, would be regarded as a Maula and your brother in religion. Later on Sahla bint Suhail bin `Amr Al-Quraishi Al-`Amiri-- and she was the wife of Abu- Hudhaifa bin `Utba--came to the Prophet (ﷺ) and said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! We used to consider Salim as our (adopted) son, and now Allah has revealed what you know (regarding adopted sons)." The sub-narrator then mentioned the rest of the narration. [Sahih Bukhari - Book 67, Hadith 26]

Hence 33:5 specifies they are not to refer to adopted Fathers as true Fathers, but rather 'brothers in religion'. In other words even a guardian, the pastor, your care give who raises you cannot be assigned that role, let alone a prophet. The question still remains how are Muslims brothers in religion when neither, Allah, Mohammed nor Abraham can be a father?

Syed Sye said...

Anthony Rogers

technically god is NOT human's father NOR does god say human are MY children

SO GOD IS NOT YOUR FATHER

TAREK said...

Syed
Waooo you have gone too far man. I just want to ask you the following question please. According to your religion does allah have hands like human being? Why to you tell us WHIM GOD IS while your book asked you to use the HOLY BIBLE as a guiding tool. If you are rejecting what is in it therefore are respecting or direspecting your allah?
Get back to me with evidences if you have the courage.
Thanks Anthony
GOD BLESS you in this 2015 and cover you with the precious blood of YESHUA AMEN.

Osama Abdallah said...

Actually, the Glorious Quran corrects this translation error of "Father" and gives the proper titles of GOD Almighty when it comes to GOD Almighty's intimate relationship with His chosen servants:

http://answering-christianity.com/use_of_terms_son_of_god_in_bible_and_quran.htm

http://answering-christianity.com/use_of_terms_son_of_god_in_bible_and_quran.htm

http://www.answering-christianity.com/1john2_22.htm


Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Tony Costa said...

"The prophet is closer to the believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers." Qur'an 33:6

Interestingly enough this verse contains a variant reading found in the Qur'an of Ubai Ibn Ka'b which has the words "and he [Muhammad] is a father to them,and his wives are their mothers." Yusuf Ali notes this in his version of 'The Holy Qur'an,' p. 1104, fn. 3674. Ali himself points out here that "such an appellation is really disrespectful to the Prophet."

Nonetheless Ubai Ibn Ka'b thought it important enough to have this reading (so much for the Muslim claim that the Qur'an had no variants). It is possible Anthony that Ubau Ibn Ka'b had the same question that you had. However, the Qur'an vehemently denies any fatherhood relationship of Muhammad to Muslims in Qur'an 33:40, "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things."

So the logic is very clear here. Muhammad is not the father of Muslims, spiritual or physical, and since all the prophets are considered to be equal (which is disputable considering Muhammad's finality as the "seal of the prophets") and Muslims make no differentiation among them, then it follows that none of them, Abraham included (who is never called their father anyway), is not the father of Muslims.

It would also seem that the relationship Muslims claim to have with one another as brothers and sisters (the basis for that is still unanswered) is greater than the relationship that Allah has with Muslims as they are merely his slaves.

Syed Sye said...

TAREK

allah does not have hand like human

god is NOTHING like his creation

Abu Bakr ibn Abd al-Wahhāb said...

Anthony, I do not understand your argument. You are asking who is the father of the muslims, there is no "father" of the muslims. So what? Who is our Lord? We say it is the one who created the heavens and the earth. We believe that "father" is an inappropriate term for God. You said since the muslims are brothers and sisters, who is their father? Brothers and sisters is metaphoric, it's not literal. When it is metaphoric, it is simply describing the relationship that believers should have with one another. We should have the same relationship AS IF we were genetic brothers and sisters.

Davy Jones said...

Abu Bakr all that you have said is simply sad.. I am really sad for you because the only relationship muslims have with their imaginary " creator " is that of a slave to a master...we Christians are called to have a relationship with God ( YAHWEH, Jesus, Holy Spirit )..that is what separates Us Christians and muslims.

How are you muslims ever gonna feel and receive God's love when you believe and think you are a slave?

You CANNOT AS IF have a relationship with a god that is not capable of love, forgiveness ( bare with me, I know these words make you muslims feel uncomfortable ) kindness, mercy, patients, compassion, understanding..Your " god " uses fear to get you muslims to obey his " commandments "

Please I urge you to think before you reply back because islam never has, had or ever will any logic and common sense. Reading your statement above is proof of it

Anthony Rogers said...

Osama said: "Actually, the Glorious Quran corrects this translation error of "Father" and gives the proper titles of God Almighty when it comes to God Almighty's intimate relationship with His chosen servants..."

Translation error? Er, um, did you learn Greek between the last time I saw you and now? If so, and I am VERY skeptical, are you seriously telling us that πατηρ and αββα do not mean father?

I would read the links you provided were it not for the fact that the email you sent me last week gave me a "phishing" warning. Isn't it enough that you are trying to spread the virus of Islam? Why do you feel the need to try to infect my computer with a virus or get private information?

Anthony Rogers said...

Syed said: “technically god is NOT human's father NOR does god say human are MY children”

Wrong!!! (If you would like a fuller answer, please include something more than an assertion. Thanks.)

Anthony Rogers said...

Syed said: “allah does not have hand like human”

Yes he does.

Allah’s Hands

Syed Sye said...



Syed said: “allah does not have hand like human”

Anthony Rogers said... Yes he does.


muslims do not believe god have hand like human or look like human


what makes god is our father?

Anthony Rogers said...

Syed said: "muslims do not believe god have hand like human or look like human"

That is what the Qur'an and Sunnah teach. If you don't believe it, then you are an innovator.

Syed asked: "what makes god is our father?"

The Lord Jesus Christ, the eternal Son and Word of the Father, makes us children of God.

David Wood said...

Syed, tell us how Allah's leg is different from a human leg. Muhammad said:

"… Then the Almighty will come to them in a shape other than the one which they saw the first time, and He will say, ‘I am your Lord,’ and they will say, 'You are not our Lord.' And none will speak: to Him then but the Prophets, and then it will be said to them, ‘Do you know any sign by which you can recognize Him?’ They will say. ‘THE SHIN,’ AND SO ALLAH WILL THEN UNCOVER HIS SHIN whereupon every believer will prostrate before Him and there will remain those who used to prostrate before Him just for showing off and for gaining good reputation..." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 532)

What is Allah's shin like?

Anthony Rogers said...

"As proof of God’s possession of such limbs and organs, Abu ‘Amer ol-Qorashi cited the description of the last judgement in verse 42 of sura 68 (ol-Qalam) “On the day when the leg will be bared and they will be bidden to kneel but cannot,” and then slapped his thigh and said, 'God has legs JUST LIKE MINE.' (Ali Dashti, 23 Years: A Study of the Prophetic Career of Muhammad, “Metaphysics: God in the Qur’an,” chapter IV.)

David Ford said...

[AR]"are you seriously telling us that πατηρ and αββα do not mean father?"

"αββα" is a transliteration of the Aramaic word "abba." Jesus spoke Aramaic, and the 4 Gospels were originally written in Aramaic, not Greek. When the Gospels got translated into Greek, a translator provided a definition of his transliterated word:

Mark 14:36 Mounce Reverse-Interlinear New Testament (MOUNCE)
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark%2014%3A36&version=ESV;HCSB;MOUNCE;DLNT
And kai he said lego, "Abba abba, • ho Father pater….

Here's the passage translated directly from the original Aramaic:

Mark 14:36 (Younan interlinear, at peshitta.org)
And he said,
"Abba, Abbi! [i.e. Father, my Father!]
Anything is possible (for) you.
Make pass from me this cup,
yet not my will but yours."

Some arguments for the Greek manuscripts bearing merely translations of the original Aramaic appear at:
peshitta.org
Forum
General
Topic called: "Master YHWH" and "I AM"s in the Peshitta

Anthony Rogers said...

DF,

Jesus knew Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek. Though I grant that abba is a transliteration into Greek of the Aramaic word for father, I do not grant that the Gospels were originally written in Aramaic. The very fact that the NT by and large quotes the LXX is one of MANY reasons to reject the idea of an Aramaic original. If they were writing in Aramaic, they certainly would not have used the Greek translation of the OT. In addition, if the Gospels were originally written in Aramaic then there would have been no need for writers like Mark to give an Aramaic word and then explain the meaning of it (e.g. Mark 3:17, 5:41, 7:11, 34, 15:22, 34).

BTW, it doesn't make any sense to say "a translator provided a definition of his transliterated word." I suppose what you thought you were saying was: "a translator provided a transliteration [i.e. αββα] into Greek of the original Aramaic [i.e. אבא].

I understand you have an agenda to push an Aramaic original, but I don't share your view and more importantly it is an irrelevant distraction from the point of all the posts you keep bringing the issue up on. Please quit sidelining every topic with your hobby horse. Thanks.

George Monnat, Jr. said...

Excellent discussion, I look forward to more of Anthony's and Dr. Costa's responses. You guys definitely make reading the comments worthwhile.

Matt said...

Revelation 9:20 suggests an answer: "The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk."

In the end-times, most of the people will worship demons. It is doubtful they will know this. So we are looking at something that combines a political system with a religion. And that religion will in reality be a demonic religion.

Do we know any religion that goes with a political system where the source of its god might be suspect? Islam, please raise your hand.

Osama Abdallah said...

"I would read the links you provided were it not for the fact that the email you sent me last week gave me a "phishing" warning."

I did not send you an email last week. I don't even remember the date when was the last time you and I corresponded via email.

Don't worry, my Islam-hating enemies are many. And they're too dumb and desperate.

As to the Greek, read the links and you'll see what I mean. Plus, Christ didn't preach in Greek anyway.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Osama Abdallah said...

@Anthony,

Do you honestly believe that Mary, Jesus Mother, believed that he was her Creator? Or was she the Mother of GOD after all? Or His Wife?

And do you believe that Jesus' immediate siblings and cousins who grew up with him saw that he was their Creator?

Osama Abdallah

Syed Sye said...

Anthony Rogers

let me tell you what the reason muslims do not say god is our father because saying god is our father we humanizing god that would mislead nature of god

that lead to disbelieve in god

TAREK said...

Hello syed!
I am sure you did not take your time to read what I wrote. I said get back to me with evidence. Is that not clear enough.
Thank for responding, but your response has not head or tail so pleaserevisit your sources and get back to me withevidences. GOD IS MY FATHER. Please do not contradict the HOLY BIBLE. Because you are going against quran. Is that clear enough or you'd like me to elaborate on that? Please let me know boy.
Osama give your life to TESHUA please.
Thank you Dr. David, brother Anthony and all my brethren MAY OUR YESHUA BLESS AND GUIDE you throughout this new year 2015. AMEN

Anthony Rogers said...

Syed said: “let me tell you what the reason muslims do not say god is our father because saying god is our father we humanizing god that would mislead nature of god

that lead to disbelieve in god”

So let’s see if I have this straight. You are arguing that the Christian understanding of the Fatherhood of God humanizes him, and anything that humanizes him leads to disbelief in God. Is that right?

If so, then Islam is the direct route to unbelief because Islam humanizes Allah to the nth degree. It humanizes God by LITERALLY ascribing a face, eyes, hands, shin and feet to him (see some of the evidence we have already provided for this above, which you did not respond to). Allah did not become incarnate and is not one person with two natures, so this can’t be explained in the same way Christians can explain Jesus having a face, eyes, hands, etc. Your god is not a whit different from the gods of Greece and Rome and Egypt, all of whom were portrayed as beings with anatomical features analogous to those possessed by human beings (not to mention animals).

Here is a video for you to enjoy while you are thinking about all of this: Giving Allah a Hand (or Two).

Anthony Rogers said...

Osama said: “…Christ didn’t preach in Greek anyway.”

So what. He also didn’t preach in Arabic, and yet you believe the Qur’an accurately cites Him (e.g. S. 5:116, a passage that is quite objectionable for more reasons than simply pretending to quote Jesus: Soul Man).

Anthony Rogers said...

Osama said: "Do you honestly believe that Mary, Jesus Mother, believed that he was her Creator?"

Yes.

Osama said: “And do you believe that Jesus' immediate siblings and cousins who grew up with him saw that he was their Creator?”

Not at first (see John 7:1ff). But they eventually came to recognize Him as the very “Lord of glory” (James 2:1) and Sovereign Lord (Jude 1:4-5).

For more on James' Christology, see the following:

James' High Christology - Part One
James' High Christology - Part Two

Anthony Rogers said...

Osama said: "I did not send you an email last week. I don't even remember the date when was the last time you and I corresponded via email."

It sure looks like YOU DID to me.

MustSee said...

You cannot call yourselves brothers and sisters if you have no father. You can call yourselves fellow SLAVES if your Allah is your master and you are his slave.

Tom said...

If given an option of the type of relationship I would like to be in in:

1)A Father child relationship

OR

2) A master slave relationship.

For me and my family, it is a NO BRAINER!

Love is the cornerstone of civility.

Thank you brothers David Wood & Anthony Rogers for addressing indirectly why muslim are empty of love and we are brothers derived from the Love of Our Father God, Through His Son Jesus Christ.

Syed Sye said...

Anthony Rogers

salafies are small sect of muslims

they belief those non sense

god does have eye, mouth, hearing, hand, but NOT in material foam like human and animal do

TAREK said...

Brother Anthony,
I knew he was coming that way that was the reason I asked him the question about allh having limbs. Islam humanises allah therefore we can understand why the word"Father" gives them headaches. He wil never answer me. i am still waiting anyway
Thank you brethren, GOD BLESS

TAREK said...

To Must See:
Well you made a good point which is made by brother Anthony. You have just put it to the level which I hope Seyed and other muslims will understand. Thank you for that.
Seyed will you ever get back to me?
Salafis are muslimsyes or no? If you do not agree with their doctrine then you do not agree with your prophet muhammad. Too bad for you Mr. man
Take care

Syed Sye said...

TAREK

when you say god what picture come to your mind?

blonde hair, blue eye, white man sitting right hand of his father?

Tony Costa said...

Abu Bakr said "We believe that "father" is an inappropriate term for God. You said since the muslims are brothers and sisters, who is their father? Brothers and sisters is metaphoric, it's not literal."

I think by "metaphoric" you also intended to mean "spiritual". Why is "Father" an "inappropriate term for God"? You state that Muslims are "brothers and sisters" and this is not literal but metaphoric. If Muslims can be brothers and sisters in a spiritual sense, why can't God be our Father in a spiritual sense as well? As a result, you are placing the Muslim relationship with each other on a higher level than that of Allah with his servants who are merely slaves.

The question has not been answered yet by any of our Muslim visitors. If Muslims are brothers and sisters to each other...who is your Father? Islam in effect, bastardizes all Muslims because they do not know who their spiritual father is and they are thus illegitimate. The Bible says there are two types of children in the world 1) the children of God and 2) the children of the devil (see 1 John 3:10). Jesus also pointed out if one does not have God as his/her father, than one is the a child of the devil (John 8:41-44).

The problem our Muslim friends have is that Muhammad has forced them into a corner. Muhammad never understood what Christians meant by Jesus being the 'Son of God'. He took the term literally and thus reasoned that God could not have a son because Allah has no consort (Qur'an 6:101). But Christians don't believe God has a consort either and that Jesus is not the Son of God by sexual reproduction via a woman but is the eternal Son of God. Muhammad simply misunderstood Christian theology, and if it wasn't Muhammad, then Muslims have to charge Allah with ignorance of what Christians believed because he alleged wrote the Qur'an.

The Qur'an also refers to the heavenly tablet the Qur'an was inscribed on as the "Mother of the Book" (Qur'an 13:39; 43:3-4) and yet no Muslim would say this is literal language. When the Qur'an speaks about a traveler or wayfarer as a "son of the road" or in Arabic "Ibn al-sabeel" (Qur'an 2:215) is this literal language, does the road produce sons? Why can the Qur'an use metaphoric language when using family terms like "mother" and "son" and yet the Bible cannot when speaking of God as "Father" and Jesus as "Son"? There is a grave inconsistency here. We need to be consistent with our texts.

Once again Anthony Rogers' question still remains unanswered by our Muslim friends....who's your Daddy?

Osama Abdallah said...

SONS OF GOD means TRIBES OF GOD

Genesis 6:4New International Version (NIV)

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

ﺗﻜﻮﻳﻦ 6:4Arabic Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV-AR)

4 فِي ذَلِكَ الوَقتِ وَبَعْدَهُ – أي بَعْدَ أنْ عاشَرَ بَنُو اللهِ بَناتِ النَّاسِ وَأنْجَبْنَ لَهُمْ أولاداً – عَاشَتْ جَماعَةُ الجَبابِرَةِ [a] عَلَى الأرْضِ. وَكانُوا مُحارِبينَ مَشْهُورينَ.


Sons of GOD means no more than the Beings that live near Allah Almighty, and who interact with Him on regular basis. Jesus Christ is included. And Jesus Christ had to be a match to another Being, Melchizedek:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,868.msg3122.html#msg3122

http://www.answering-christianity.com/use_of_terms_son_of_god_in_bible_and_quran.htm

http://www.answering-christianity.com/1john2_22.htm


Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Osama Abdallah said...

@Anthony,

Please remove that ridiculous post about the virus email of a guy who had "Osama Abdallah" alias. It wasn't me. I didn't do it. How many times do I have to say I didn't do it.

Osama Abdallah

MustSee said...

In this famous ancient depiction of the Devil from the Torat cards. The Devil is sitting on his throne with a man and a woman with chains around their necks on a chain leash. Indicating that they are his SLAVES.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/RWS_Tarot_15_Devil.jpg

Satanists call the Devil (Satan) MASTER, because they are his slaves and the Devil or Satan is their master...interestingly that is the same relationship that Muslims have with Allah, as Satan has with his slaves.

smalltallest88 said...

@Osama
"sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them"

Am sure you can't call angels sons of human cos they were not begotten by any human or any sexual intercourse.

The Bible cannot use the word "Sons of God went into Sons of God or daughters of God" as you may want it to use it since the Bible is making us understand that angels came down and went in to daughters of human.

The Bible is really difficult for you to understand since your prophet failed to understand the term Sons of God.

Anthony Rogers said...

Syed said: "...god does have eye, mouth, hearing, hand, but NOT in material foam like human and animal do"

Your god not only has humanlike attributes but they are also like the attributes of human beings in being physical attributes. For example, Allah touched Muhammad's chest with his palm according to a Tirmidhi hadtih, and we are told that Muhammad felt the coldness of Allah's palm when he touched his chest. So yes, the Islamic sources teach not only that your deity has attributes like humans that are spiritual in quality, but he even has attributes that are physical in quality.

In light of this, I will now ask you the question you asked Tarek:

"when you say god what picture come to your mind?

blonde hair, blue eye, white man sitting right hand of his father?

David said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tom said...

Every time Osama writes his dribles I see the muslim desperation, resulting in me thanking my Lord Jesus Christ for Keeping me in the Father's embrace & Love.

Thank you Jesus, for the Light.

Syed Sye said...

Anthony Rogers


....In light of this, I will now ask you the question you asked Tarek:

"when you say god what picture come to your mind?

blonde hair, blue eye, white man sitting right hand of his father?.....

our god NEVER became human like creature but your god did became human like creature

the question is your god STILL in human foam ?
what happen to the man jesus?

MustSee said...

I have still to see a valid verified Muslim Injeel as affirmed by Allah in the Quran.

The only ones around before and after Islam are the ones that say Jesus was divine and he died on the cross.

Maybe a Muslim on here can show us a VERIFIED valid Muslim Injeel book.

How bout you Syed or you Osama?

If not you Muslims cannot claim the Bible is incorrect until YOU CAN PROVE IT with a valid Muslim Injeel.

David Ford said...

[Osama Abdallah]"And Jesus Christ had to be a match to another Being, Melchizedek:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,868.msg3122.html#msg3122 "
From that link:
"Jesus had to match Melchizedek:
And furthermore, did you know that Jesus Christ had to be this way (miraculous, has authority, and is powerful), because he needed to match up with Melchizedek? Melchizedek had no father and no mother (Jesus at least had a mother), and he was the Highest Jewish Priest. And he was Eternal. Jesus had to at least be equal to Melchizedek. See: Genesis 14:18, Psalm 110:4, Hebrews 5:6-10, Hebrews 6:20, Hebrews 7:1-20:"

You're working with a mistranslation. Certain manuscripts erroneously have Melchizedek being eternally-existent and immortal:

Hebrews 7:2-3 NIV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=hebrews+7%3A2-3&version=NIV;MOUNCE
.…First, the name Melchizedek means "king of righteousness";
then also, "king of Salem" means "king of peace."
Without father or mother,
without genealogy,
without beginning of days or end of life,
resembling the Son of God,
he remains a priest forever.

Translating directly yields a much more sensible reading:

Murdock
http://qbible.com/aramaic-new-testament/hebrews/7.html
Also at
http://www.dukhrana.com/peshitta/
Of whom neither his father nor his mother are written in the genealogies;
nor the commencement of his days,
nor the end of his life;
but, after the likeness of the Son of God,
his priesthood remaineth for ever.

H/t:
Norton, William. 1889. _A Translation, in English Daily Used, of the Peshito-Syriac Text, and of the Received Greek Text, of Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, and 1 John, With an Introduction on the Peshito-Syriac Text, and the Revised Greek Text of 1881_ (London: W. K. Bloom), ~140pp., from the Introduction, page L. There is a Google books copy, and a copy at
https://archive.org/details/translationineng00nort

George Monnat, Jr. said...

" Syed Sye said...

Anthony Rogers

....In light of this, I will now ask you the question you asked Tarek:

"when you say god what picture come to your mind?

blonde hair, blue eye, white man sitting right hand of his father?.....

our god NEVER became human like creature but your god did became human like creature

the question is your god STILL in human foam ?
what happen to the man jesus?"

Human foam sounds gross.

As a Christian, when I think of God I imagine a white light so bright, spectacular, and vast that it is impossible to see while in flesh but will be happy to praise eternally after shedding my mortal coil.

By the way, Jesus Christ is no longer in human form.

Is the quran still in physical form?

Syed Sye said...

MustSee

original injil does not exist today but your bible contain words of god ie injil

Syed Sye said...

George Monnat, Jr. said...By the way, Jesus Christ is no longer in human form......

what happen to jesus the man?

Syed Sye said...

George Monnat, Jr. said...
Is the quran still in physical form?....



what do you mean by that?

TPaul said...

George M Jr. ,
"..Is the quran still in physical form?"
That is an excellent question, but Muslims always operate by double standards. A laxed one for Islam and a more stringent one for all other religions.
They accuse everyone of idolatry, yet they bow before a lifeless object five times a day themselves.
They accuse Christianity of shirk, yet they cannot explain the " un-created " Koran that existed for all eternity, Mohammed's status in Islam etc.
They condemn Christmas trees as being pagan, but they forget they own pagan rituals being observed in Mecca, like veneration of the embedded stone, the circumambulation around the Kaaba. The stoning rituals. The trek between the two hills etc. All these are in fact the very same rituals that ancient pagans were involved in.
Only when Muslims apply the same standards to Islam that they do to criticize other religions, do they realize that Islam is false.

George Monnat, Jr. said...

Syed Sye said...

"George Monnat, Jr. said...By the way, Jesus Christ is no longer in human form......

what happen to jesus the man?"

You should know that He was resurrected.


Syed Sye said...

"George Monnat, Jr. said...
Is the quran still in physical form?....

what do you mean by that?"

The quran is the eternal, incorruptible word of allah, right? I'm assuming you own own or at least have seen one. It was in a material form, yes?

Syed Sye said...


"George Monnat, Jr. said...By the way, Jesus Christ is no longer in human form......

Syed Sye said...what happen to jesus the man?"

"George Monnat,You should know that He was resurrected.


Syed Sye said... jesus the %100 god and jesus the %100 man


according to christians that god became man lives 33 years on earth and he return back to be god again

so my question is what happen to Jesus the %100 MAN?

Syed Sye said...


George Monnat, Jr. said...The quran is the eternal, incorruptible word of allah, right? I'm assuming you own own or at least have seen one. It was in a material form, yes?..........

ok yes

David Ford said...

[Syed Sye]"original injil does not exist today but your bible contain words of god ie injil"

That appears to me to be a contradictory statement.
When did the Injil last exist?

David Ford said...

[Syed Sye]"adam and eve are father and mother of human being"

Al-Nabia Isa ibn Maryam had a virgin birth, and so His birth was unique and miraculous. He was the only one who ever lived who had a mother but no father. (Adam and Eve had no father and no mother.)

-From the tract "For My Muslim Friend"
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/aus.religion.islam/bzdQCJTVhyk/d_ZDEJ6DLuUJ

George Monnat, Jr. said...

"Syed Sye said...


George Monnat, Jr. said...The quran is the eternal, incorruptible word of allah, right? I'm assuming you own own or at least have seen one. It was in a material form, yes?..........

ok yes


"George Monnat, Jr. said...By the way, Jesus Christ is no longer in human form......



Syed Sye said... jesus the %100 god and jesus the %100 man

according to christians that god became man lives 33 years on earth and he return back to be god again

so my question is what happen to Jesus the %100 MAN?"


What happens to the eternal word of allah if I burn a quran?

Syed Sye said...

George Monnat, Jr. said...What happens to the eternal word of allah if I burn a quran?

nothing would happen, muslims burn old quran all the time

you didnt answer my question

what happen to Jesus the %100 MAN?"

Syed Sye said...

David Ford said...

[Syed Sye]"original injil does not exist today but your bible contain words of god ie injil"

That appears to me to be a contradictory statement.
When did the Injil last exist?

bible STILL contain injil with human words

George Monnat, Jr. said...

Syed Sye said...

George Monnat, Jr. said...What happens to the eternal word of allah if I burn a quran?

nothing would happen, muslims burn old quran all the time

you didnt answer my question

what happen to Jesus the %100 MAN?"


You really don't get the similarity? The quran is the eternal word of allah, but if you burn the paper and ink, it's still the eternal word of allah.

Jesus is the Eternal Word of God who became human. After He died for us and was resurrected, He is still the Eternal Word of God.

David Ford said...

[Syed Sye]"bible STILL contain injil with human words"

What exactly do you mean by "injil"?
Have you read the Injil?
Have you heard the Injil?

Do you know Arabic? If so, you may be interested in reading something-- Tatian's Diatesseron-- in Arabic that was translated from another Semitic language. It's at
http://sepehr.mohamadi.name/?p=84

TPaul said...

When Mohammed rejected the divinity of Jesus, he was left with a vacuum, so he created two idols to replace a Jesus.

" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,, and the Word WAS God...." This is a clear reference to Jesus Christ that Muslims reject, but then they HD had to replace Him with another, hence. The Koran: Muslims accept that there is an uncreated Koran in heaven that is Allah's eternal word. This cheap trick of replacement leaves Muslims with a dilemma. Does Allah have an eternal partner, in the "Loh-e-Mahfooz"?

Thea second idol that resulted from the rejection of Christ's deity was the Kaaba. Muslims have a problem when Christians say they worship Jesus. But we do so because he was divine first, and then came down in human form with a purpose to save humankind. Christians have Jesus to direct worship of God towards, but Mohammed invented his own idol, the Kaaba that Muslims do not feel ashamed troop view down in worship before.

So the two idols that replaced Jesus Christ for Muslims are both man-made and corruptable, whereas the one they have rejected is God himself, created my God himself in human form.

The irony of this is that the Koran clearly says that Shaitan was cast in hell for not bowing down to a human form.

The question is why would Allah ask the angels to bow down to a created human? Even by this verse it is clear that Allah objects man from creating objects and then to worship them, but he does not limit himself.