In the comment thread of a previous post, Muslim apologist Osama Abdallah graciously sought to educate us on the constituent elements of human nature, which he said are defined “accurately and logically” in Islam over and against “paganism”. According to Osama, man consists of a self (Arabic: nafs) and a physical body that are animated or made alive by Allah’s Spirit.
I found what Osama said about the self/nafs, ordinarily translated “soul” by translators, to be especially interesting. Osama said of the self: “This is what enters the flesh and blood or whatever other form it will enter. It will enter the Heavenly Body that it will live in in Heaven, or the Hell body in Hell that it too will live in.”
Intrigued by the implications of this, and in order to make sure I was accurately understanding him to be saying that every self/nafs “enters the flesh and blood or whatever other form it will enter,” I quoted Osama’s words back to him and then asked the following question: “You have said that Islam’s view is logical, and you have referred to the nafs, i.e. self, as that which enters flesh and blood and other forms. Does EVERY nafs/self enter into a body or other forms in either heaven or hell?”
In confirmation of the fact that this was his intended meaning, Osama gave the following terse reply: “It’s funny that you quoted me and then asked a question that is directly answered by the very quote that you quoted me on.”
With that in view, the reason Osama’s “logical” view of the self is so interesting is because of what it says in the following verse of the Qur’an:
And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): “O Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?” He will say: “Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in MY inner self though I do not know what is in YOURS, truly, You only You, are the All Knower of all that is hidden and unseen. (S. 5:116, Hilali & Khan; cf. 3:28, 3:30, 6:12, 6:54, 20:41)
According to the above verse, Allah has an inner self/nafs. The same thing can be seen in several hadith, the following among them:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Allah says: ‘I am just as My slave thinks I am, (i.e. I am able to do for him what he thinks I can do for him) and I am with him if He remembers Me. If he remembers Me in himself, I too, remember him in Myself; and if he remembers Me in a group of people, I remember him in a group that is better than they; and if he comes one span nearer to Me, I go one cubit nearer to him; and if he comes one cubit nearer to Me, I go a distance of two outstretched arms nearer to him; and if he comes to Me walking, I go to him running.’" (Sahih Bukhari, 9.93.502; see also 9.93.501)
On the authority of Abu Dharr al-Ghifari (may Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (peace be upon him) is that among the sayings he relates from his Lord (may He be glorified) is that He said:
O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another. O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you, O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you. O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and will not attain benefitting Me so as to benefit Me. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more that a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him who finds good praise Allah and let him who finds other than that blame no one but himself. It was related by Muslim (also by at-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah). (Hadith Qudsi, 17)
So according to the Islamic sources Allah has an inner self or soul, i.e. Allah has what Osama said enters “flesh and blood and other forms…the Heavenly Body…in Heaven…the Hell body in Hell….” In other words, since Allah has a self, and since every self enters flesh and blood and other forms in heaven or hell, then Allah must have a heavenly body. The logic is ironclad:
Ø P1: All selfs/nafs enter flesh and blood or other forms (i.e. heavenly body, hell body)
Ø P2: Allah is/has a self/nafs
Ø Conclusion: Allah entered flesh and blood or other forms
The problem with this for Osama is that the Christian doctrine of the incarnation is the chief reason he calls Christianity “paganism.” So if Christianity is paganism, and if Osama’s belief about the self/nafs is “logically” consistent with his own stated view of the self and the teaching of the Qur’an regarding Allah being a self or having a nafs, then Islam must be paganism by Osama’s own criteria. In other words, Osama has a contradiction on his hands (several of them).
Now sit back and watch Osama deny the implications of his own “accurate and logical” position.
To learn more about Allah’s "self" and the problems it poses for Islam, see the following article:
You obviously suffer from the disease of the man-made trinity, where the Creator and the creation are mixed up in one bowl. "There is none like unto Him". This is both in the Bible and the Quran. You bringing GOD Almighty into the mix shows just how false your theological upbringing is. You can't compare GOD Almighty to any creation. Free yourself from the diseases of trinity and paganism.
That's my advise to you.
In fact, on Osama’s reasoning, Allah would not only have a heavenly body but an earthly body, for we are told in a hadith passed on from Abu Huraira by at least twenty-eight Sahabah that is recorded in both Bukhari and Muslim:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, “Every night when it is the last third of the night, our Lord, the Superior, the Blessed, descends to the nearest heaven [i.e. earth’s atmosphere – AR] and says: Is there anyone to invoke Me that I may respond to his invocation? Is there anyone to ask Me so that I may grant him his request? Is there anyone asking My forgiveness so that I may forgive him? (Sahih al-Bukhari, 9.93.586)
Furthermore, Allah will also have a hell body, or at least a hell foot, for as the following verse tells us, one of the feet that Allah runs with (see Hadith Qudsi 17, cited in main blog post) will serve as a plug (roof?) for hell:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Paradise and the Fire (Hell) argued, and the Fire (Hell) said, ‘I have been given the privilege of receiving the arrogant and the tyrants.’ Paradise said, ‘What is the matter with me? Why do only the weak and the humble among the people enter me?’ On that, Allah said to Paradise. ‘You are My Mercy which I bestow on whoever I wish of my servants.’ Then Allah said to the (Hell) Fire, ‘You are my (means of) punishment by which I punish whoever I wish of my slaves. And each of you will have its fill.’ As for the Fire (Hell), it will not be filled till Allah puts HIS FOOT over it whereupon it will say, ‘Qati! Qati!’ At that time it will be filled, and its different parts will come closer to each other; and Allah will not wrong any of His created beings. As regards Paradise, Allah will create a new creation to fill it with." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 6.60.373)
Narrated Anas: The Prophet said, "The people will be thrown into Hell ( Fire) and it will keep on saying, 'Is there any more?' till the Lord of the worlds puts HIS FOOT over it, whereupon its different sides will come close to each other, and it will say, 'Qad! Qad! (enough! enough!) By Your 'Izzat (Honor and Power) and Your Karam (Generosity)!' Paradise will remain spacious enough to accommodate more people until Allah will create some more people and let them dwell in the superfluous space of Paradise." (Sahih Bukhari, 9.93.481)
Does Osama's view appear logical yet given his attack on the incarnation as paganism?
Thanks for pointing out another contradiction in the Qur'an. On the one hand, as you point out, the Qur'an says there is nothing like Allah (S. 42:11); on the other hand, the Qur'an turns around and says Allah has an inner self (which presupposes an outer self) as does every other human on the planet (S. 5:116).
As Professor Binyāmîn Abrahamov stated the matter about early Islam:
"Muslim theologians faced the problem of anthropomorphism on account of the equivocal teaching of the Qur’an…. The Qur’an states, on the one hand, that there is nothing that equals God, and that He has no like (Qur’an 42.11, 112.4), but on the other hand, it describes Him as having a face, hands and eyes and as talking, and sitting on the Throne and as having feelings (Qur’an 55.17, 38.75, 54.14, 2.153, 20.5, 2.26). Tradition also supports the claim that God is a body. [ _Anthromorphism and Interpretation of the Qur’ān in the Theology of al-Qāsim ibn Ibrāhīm Kitab al-Mustarshid_, edited with translation, introduction and notes by Binyamin Abrahamov (Leiden, the Netherlands: E. J. Brill, 1996), p. 2-3; Emphasis mine]
Of course the contradiction only arises between the anthropomorphic teachings of the Qur'an and the statement that "there is nothing like him" if you ignore the Quranic idiom. For example, note the following verse:
"And the blind and the seeing are not alike" (S. 35:19).
Are "the seeing" incorporeal? Nope.
"O wives of the Prophet, you are not like any other women."
Were Muhammad's wives incorporeal? Obviously not.
Accordingly, the same language used in 42:11 for Allah does not rule out that your deity has a "heavenly body," an "earthly body," a "hell body," and whatever other forms he might shape shift into, as your own reasoning forces upon you. And, as I already pointed out, even if S. 42:11 does rule out your deity having a hell body, an earth body, and a hell body, then you are left with a contradiction on your hands, and your deity is left with a contradiction on HIS HANDS as well.
Let's look at the Trinity concept of us Christians. Muslims so confidently claim that we worship 3 Gods and not One God. These "experts" (sarcasm) in islam uses the addition of 1+1+1 to arrive at three.
The moment the muslim makes the God head physical they completely lose track of all their faculties. Only muslims can add up a Spirit and arrive at three much to the contradiction of their own quran.
Let's examine this.
In John 4:24 .God is a SPIRIT; and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The SPIRIT of God is an infinite entity and cannot be subtracted, added or diminished. It is a common misconception amongst anti-trinitarians that christians worship THREE gods and is thus guilty of polytheism. A lot of them so confidently argue that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit adds up to three gods.
Although the Trinity is explained as God in three "persons" we must bear in mind that all three are in actual fact SPIRIT.
We must not confuse ourselves to the fact that Jesus Christ was a PHYSICAL being on earth. Jesus is the "Word" in the flesh.
According to John 1:1 we can clearly see that the "Word" is a SPIRIT entity. The "Word" in his CAPACITY as Jesus still retained his divinity and infinity.
At this point we can clearly see that the Trinity or God head is a Spirit being. A Spirit can remain ONE in totality when imparted on believers. The SPIRIT remains singular throughout. When a Spirit is in 100 people they do not say we are filled with the spirits(plural), they correctly say the Spirit(singular). The Spirit although in 100 people did not diminish in itself and still remained ONE singular entity.
In view of the aforementioned, why is it so difficult to accept that the Trinity is God the Father, God the Son and of course God the Holy Spirit. The doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three divine "persons" the Father, the Son (Word) and the Holy Spirit. The three "persons" are distinct throughout the bible yet they are of ONE being.
So as christians we do hold to Deutoronomy 6:4 and Mark 12:29, Hear O' Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE. Yes this may come as a surprise to our muslim folks. Our God is ONE but not confined to ONE .
Now let's look at Spirit entity in islam. According to surah 21:91 allah breathed into Mary of his spirit and in surah 32:9 he breathed into mankind of his spirit. Is there now two spirit(s) or more here? The one in Mary, The one in Mankind ( approximately 6 billion people) and the little that allah has left from using it all up. (sarcasm)
Now we ask, did the spirit of allah diminish when he used some of it for mankind, Mary, Adam and others?
The muslim will CLEARLY object to this question and say NO, NEVER.
Well then you share the same concept of a Spirit being as mentioned above. A SPIRIT doesn't diminish at all. Its an infinite being that can impart himself in more than one being and still remain singular (ONE).
In view of this only an absent mind can deduce that christians worship three gods. This is a blatant fallacy.
In Christ, for Christ, by Christ
Awesome job on that one Anthony,
The Koran and hadiths certainly brew a hodge podge of contradictions.
When Islam seeks to destroy the truth about the incarnation, the ramification is that it is left with many holes in it's own theology that it now has to contend with. In the end Islam is forced to create " idols" in order to replace different aspects of the divine person of Jesus.
Hence Islam proves to be nothing less than it condemns itself.
People like Osama simply try to explain away these dilemmas by creating mental buffers to ease the blow off reality.
With Osama, I hope some day the truth will sink in.
@ Professor Osama Abdallah,
Let us talk about practical Islamic theology to understand deity of Almighty God thru Muhammad’s eyes on Allah and Quran. FYI, self-conscientious/self/nafs/soul means almost same to identify individual from billions of people die every year with flesh and blood. Souls are immortal.
1) You believe as David summarized “The logic is ironclad:
P1: All selfs/nafs enter flesh and blood or other forms (i.e. heavenly body, hell body)
P2: Allah is/has a self/nafs
Conclusion: Allah entered flesh and blood or other forms
In other word according to Islam Muhammad’s “Allah” is also source of all evil spirts beside good that inspired Osama bin Laden to master mind grand plan of destroying Twin Tower in NYC and finally be killed by American force and make his grave at the bottom Arabian Sea. Islam does not describe roll of devil play in human life that make sense. But we followers of Jesus believe God is righteous and source of all good spirit that makes us His children thru Jesus Christ. He does no evil. Evil spirit comes from devil. Even Jesus was tempted by devil but Muhammad not according Islam. Muhammad’s concept about life and death is totally irrational.
2) “O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you.”- Abu Dharr al-Ghifari from Prophet Muhammad
In Old Testament God Almighty used to forgive human sins since great flood during Noah thru animal sacrifice, but our forefathers were unable to turn away from Devil’s bondage and committed sins again and again. In Old Testament Time we were called slave, to follow God’s commandments given to us thru Moses. But laws failed human to turn to God permanently. God instead of punishing His slaves; rather draws mankind near to Him by His kind and merciful nature and forgive our sins once for all thru blood of Jesus Christ at the Cross whoever believes in Him.
But sadly Muslims failed to understand such wonderful gift of God given to us thru Jesus Christ. Muslims by ignorance still slaughter cows every Eid to get forgiveness by the blood of cow in old traditional way. Muslims are fighting in modern time drawing human beings back to stone age under laws of slavery throwing away God’s love for us as His children. Fools die by its foolishness. We are free because we are from free blessed woman Sarah not slave Egyptian woman Hagar who had Abraham’s son Ismael. Bible says Ismael’s ancestry will fight each other and that is happening now among Muslims world.
Muhammad ordered Muslims to learn from the Holy Bible but Muslims do not care to read the Bible. Who would be responsible for Muslims’ ignorance and violent attitude? Christ died for everybody once for all, one can believe Jesus and His sacrifice or deny it , and it is up to you Osama!!
Spread the Good News to everybody!
Osama can you tell us what Allah looks like in your minds eye, since that is how he will appear to you on the "day of resurrection"?
Jericho Fallin, some good points you made and to add to that....
Hebrews 1:3 shows how Jesus is described as the radiance of God. In this verse, he is talking about the shekinah glory in the old testament that pillar of clouds that followed the Israelites and the glory of God in the temple. The idea is that of beams of light coming forth from the sun. Jesus radiance and glory is that of God as he has the same essence of the Father. We believe in one God by essence or nature, 3 as to person, which is formed on the basis of a "subject/object" distinction and relationship.
It is clear Muhammad was ignorant of the christology of the early church that was established in his day. Otherwise, if Allah knew these things, he would of never instructed him to write that the Trinity was the Father, Jesus and Mary.
Hi Osama, I agree that we should free ourselves from such high and proud thoughts that make us think that we have figured out God, we have figured out what He can do and what He cannot do, having thus limited His Power and Love and successfully put Him in a box. Obviously the way to take a peek at Him would be by praying 5 times a day towards Mecca because that is where His box is, fasting to show Him how strong we are in our will, giving to charity, taking special trips to a certain place. By showing mercy and love it doesn't seem we can get a peek at that god, though.
You with all your arguments, will never find God until you are not empty of yourself and thirsty of righteousness. For that you'd have to admit that you have no righteousness of your own, none from your deeds... you'd have to admit that we are dirt compared to God and that He has to have mercy on us. Only in that place will you ever find God - the God that is real. Maybe Allah, maybe Jesus. 'Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low'.
To get to that point you may need to b broken. If God tries to break your heart, count it as a privilege.
Honestly, when I see you talk, hear you or read what you say I get the feeling that you are a shallow person, satisfied with the knowledge you have and totally not looking anywhere else and ignoring the immense truth you have heard and read. I hope I am wrong. Bless you!
Anthony I do appraciate you and reading your articles. I cannot understand why Osama is an apoligist at all, he has never made a spec of dust worth of sense...EVER. I wouldn't waste anymore time that our Glorious Creator gives us on this earth on Osama, not one more second.
Since the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all equally at the highest position of power and authority in heaven, then obviously they will all have the highest title (God) that goes with that position. They are all equally God, both individually and together, because of their co-equal highest position.
And you cannot try to call the triune God polytheistic because polytheism is Satanic and is a result of the fall of man and sin, but the triune God existed long before (John 1:1-3) the fall of man and sin and the devil.
That silly, ignorant, servant of the devil, Muhammad, came along about 600 years after Christ and the eyewitnesses who wrote the Gospels (each from their own unique view of the events) and tried to override the accounts of these eyewitnesses and replace them with his own self serving fantasies. But he has been caught out bigtime, centuries ago, as just another lying criminal.
That he was serving the devil rather than God is obvious in the horrible fruit that Islam has produced in the last 14 centuries, as well documented on this site.
I would understand if you felt a little beaten up right now. That's not our intention. I think the intention of most people here is to unshackle you from the ideologies and doctrines that have you ensnared.
I get the feeling that you are just hanging on by the skin of your teeth, and I have to ask why is it so important that you stay on a ship that is so clearly sinking?
Are you afraid of becoming an apostate? It would be completely understandable if you were. Sadly, there would be a dire consequence if you began to sincerely seek God.
But don't you get tired of hitting your head against an immovable rock?
It's now been thousands of years that people have been trying to debunk Christianity and disprove the Bible. Millions, perhaps in total billions of dollars have been spent trying to disprove aspects of Christianity only to re-inforce its claims.
Thousands of books have been written claiming new discoveries that refute the Bible. Conspiracy theories, hollywood block busters, best sellilng novels, organizations all aimed at showing the world that Christianity can't be true!
But each of them circle like vultures then fly off to be forgotten. Why? Because you have to actually have to believe in leprechauns to believe their accusations.
Osama, take a breath and realize this isn't a battle of words, this is a battle for your soul. Don't become another forgotten vulture.
That's my advise to you.
Well done David and Anthony.
Osama ..... Smh. The hoops you jump through for Islam always end up becoming theological shackles that bind you in your weights worth of inconsistencies.
Again, "There is none like unto Him". This is both in the Glorious Quran and the Bible. You are too desperate. This is what we can expect from trinity's fruits.
You see, atheists and Trinitarians are very similar. They constantly and on daily basis argue and debate their nonsense of:
1- GOD does not exist.
2- Jesus is the Creator of the Universe.
Because these concepts are false, and because their inner FITRAH (natural Muslim instinct that Allah Almighty puts into the baby as it is born) and CONCIOUSNESS constanty poke them from inside that these beliefs are false, the infidels end up constantly debating their nonsense on daily and even hourly basis.
These are the rotten fruits of the religions of "WE CAN ONLY CONCLUDE...."
1- Trinitarians say WE CAN ONLY CONCLUDE that Jesus is the Creator of the Universe.
2- Atheists say WE CAN ONLY CONCLUDE that GOD doesn't exist.
I say you both are doomed-to-Hell infidels that lack confidence. Like I advised you before, leave the blasphemy of trinity and turn to Islam.
" I cannot understand why Osama is an apoligist at all, he has never made a spec of dust worth of sense...EVER."
You just gotta love the integrity and maturity of some people here.
And by the way, I am only a Truth seeker and a humble servant of Allah Almighty.
I guess integrity is a one way street. One can hurl insults at Christians by comparing them to atheists and pagans and say they are doomed to hell fire, while all that was said is you don't make sense. The Bible says to not repay evil with evil, therefore, if you think this is an insult, should you heed to the words of the Bible, or treat the response as one who is "the worst of creatures"?
Osama said: “Again, "There is none like unto Him". This is both in the Glorious Quran and the Bible.”
Osama, the Bible and the Quran are two completely different books with different messages (as insisted on by the Quran itself – the denial of Christ’s Divinity, His death and Resurrection etc.) with the Quran having been invented by Muhammad and Co. – a bunch of self-serving criminals who only arrived on the scene 600 years after Christ and the original Scriptures (as now contained in the Bible). And according to the original Scriptures it is Jesus Christ that is the final Prophet, not Muhammad, of whom we can find neither hide nor hair of in the Bible, except in the category of false prophet.
A couple of the very few similarities between the Bible and the Quran are in the Quran’s use of some of the names of the prophets of the Bible, and the Final Judgment. But that is only the Devil’s deceit to try to make himself look like God (“I will be like the Most High” Isaiah 14:14), and which you have been properly sucked in by. In all your efforts to defend the Quran you are actually just working for the devil.
Better to let go of that old pagan god of the Quran, who is Satan, and accept Christ, who is the Lord God and final Judge, as clearly pointed out in the original Scriptures.
Osama said: "And by the way, I am only a Truth seeker and a humble servant of Allah Almighty."
Osama, who exactly is this "Allah Almighty"?
Truth seeker, huh Obdullah?
Tell us about all about:
*1 Cor 5:5,
*1 Cor 7:40
*Your claim that Paul was called a liar in the NT by another apostle (and yewt giving no direct evidence, just 3 whole chapters),
*explain your convoluted theory on the switching between Barabbas and Jesus which you refused to explain in detail when asked
*Or the numerous times you'd sunk to insults.
Listen for the crickets now.
"Truth seeker"! that's a good one!
Also Osama, you are yet to explain how the documents of scriptures we have that date to before Mohammad was born and match our current bibles, and yet they are somehow "corrupted" from matching the Qouran. Were there Zionist time travelers?
Note that Osama has been reduced to ridicule and assertion. Instead of refuting what I wrote in the main blog post and here in the comments section, he has registered a series of unargued assertions coupled with slander of the truth of God Triune. Sad.
Anthony: Did my comments get denied posting? if so, why?
how about adressing the claims instead of avoiding then. It seems that you cannot give a cheret answers to the claims made.
PS and if you do try please aoiding pointing to you website, it just make you look weaker
I don't think any of your comments were denied.
Oh, there they are. I saw new comments before mine, but maybe there's a sort of "queue" system.
"And by the way, I am only a Truth seeker and a humble servant of Allah Almighty."
You're now trying to add Almighty to Allah's name. I can see you coming home to Christ soon. May Jesus open the eyes of your heart to know Him.
Mr. Abdallah, blessings and peace to you.
Does not art contain the artist? Does not music contain the musician? Does not spoken word contain the speaker? Does not vision contain the visionary? Does not education contain the educator? Does not science contain the scientist? Does not wisdom contain the wise? And therefor does not creation contain the creator? We are the creation just as everything is creation, other than the creator, YHWH. ELOHIM created. And HIS breath of life is in us until we leave the tomb of our mortal bodies. Yeshua was NOT created. HE, along with Father and Holy Spirit, make up the GODhead. Elohim is the Alpha/Omega, First/Last, Beginning/End and ALL of creation reflects HIM. I will try to clarify.
Let me try to explain it like this... H2O is water, correct? Well what is ice? Frozen H2O, right? What is steam? Evaporated H2O, right? All 3 are still H2O just manifesting in differing forms and for different purposes. Same with the GODhead. Each personification, for lack of a better term, has a form and a purpose, a duty in the execution of the plan.
Here's another example... I am a mother, a daughter and a wife. Therefore I possess very different and distinct aspects of myself that function in very different and distinct roles. Elohim is kind of like that only each separate and distinct role of GOD is actually personified, lacking a better term again, to execute the will of the one shared essence/thought life/consciousness/Creator.
An egg could potentially be another example if those are not working for you.
So anyway, Yeshua is ALL deity in a resurrected body at this point.
Mr. Abdallah, may I ask you a question? I hope your answer is yes because I am going to ask... 1) Have you ever actually read the Holy Bible? 2) Where does evil come from based on your worldview? 3) What parts of the Holy Bible were "corrupted"? Please don't say all of it because that's not the definition of "corruption" unless you have evidence that at one time it actually mirrored the qoran and of course there is no evidence to remotely support that claim. 4) Why do you call Mohammed a prophet? What exactly did he prophesy? Prophecy - the foretelling or prediction of what is to come OR something that is declared by a prophet, especially a divinely inspired prediction, instruction, or exhortation.
He didn't predict anything that has come to fruition if he predicted anything at all. I can't seem to remember reading a prediction in the qoran. Any "instruction" that was given, has been retracted, changed or abridged so isn't it rather suspect that a "divine being" can't keep the commands straight or consistent? Exhortation by definition is a speech or written passage intended to persuade, inspire, or encourage per the Collins English Dictionary. Ummmmm... Doesn't really fit anything recorded from him or about him. So prophet? Really?
GOD loves you. HE loves you so much that HE did the unimaginable and became human, died for your sins on a cross as a sinless sacrifice, bearing all the wrath that HIS perfect uncompromising justice demands, satisfying the debt for iniquitiess whereby reestablishing a path for you to exist in paradise forever. This is GRACE. There is NOTHING any of us can do to earn or deserve it. NOONE is good enough because EVERYONE sins. This is why GRACE is the ultimate GIFT from GOD. It does not matter how horrible your sin is, ALL are forgiven if the GIFT is accepted and through belief true repentance is offered. Do you accept this gift?
Osama Abdallah, "You obviously suffer from the disease of the man-made trinity ... Free yourself from the diseases of trinity and paganism."
Osama, when we observe the sun we observe three distinct things: light, heat, and a flame. Yet, the light is the sun. The heat is the sun. The flame is the sun. Although these three are distinct, do we orbit three stars, or only one? Likewise, the Father is called God in Scripture (Philippians 2:11), and so is the Son (John 1:1,14), and so is the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4). Even though there is a clear distinction, there is only ONE God.
"But God has no son!" you say. According to Islam, Christianity teaches that God acquired a son through procreation with Mary, therefore understanding "son of God" in a literal sense. In reality, the term “son of God” is an anthropomorphism and is figurative, not literal, to describe a relational identity. In John 3:16, Jesus ["Yeshua" in Hebrew, meaning "Salvation"] is called the only “BEGOTTEN” son of God (“monogenēs”) meaning “unique” or “one of a kind.” As Christians, we are all called God’s children (Matthew 5:9; Romans 8:16; Galatians 3:26; Galatians 4:5-6; Ephesians 1:5, etc.) to describe our relationship to our Heavenly Father. We are not literal “sons” and “daughters.” Even angels are called “sons of God” (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). Adam is also called the son of God (Luke 3:38). But Jesus is called the only “UNIQUE” son of God for a very good reason: Before He was manifested in the flesh, He appeared before His people as the “Angel of the Lord.” He revealed Himself in the burning bush that spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai. He appeared before Joshua as the Commander of the Hosts of Heaven. And in the New Testament He is the eternal “Word of God” — called the “unique son of God” — because He is God in the flesh and there is no one else like Him.
John 1:1,14, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD … And THE WORD BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten [monogenēs] of the Father, full of grace and truth.”
Osama, error begets error. Because of Mohammed’s misunderstanding of what Christians believed and practiced, Islam incorrectly defines the "sonship" of Christ as literal and the Trinity as "polytheism." But this begs the question: Since Mohammed couldn't get basic Christian theology right, what else did he get wrong?
Isaiah 62:11, “Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy YESHU’AH cometh; behold, HIS reward [is] with HIM, and his work before him.” <-- "Salvation" is a HIM!
Matthew 1:21, “She shall bring forth a son. You shall call his name YESHUA [Jesus], for it is he who shall save his people from their sins.”
Revelation 22:12, “And behold, I [YESHUA] am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.”
John 14:6, “YESHUA said to him, ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through Me.'”
Isaiah 1:18, “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.”
Romans 10:13, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
Acts 4:12, "... there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”
Forsaken says "....Let me try to explain it like this... H2O is water, ...."
Forsaken, you have to be very careful when explaining the triune God to Muslims through analogies, because they tend to twist the same analogies you use on its head and then throw it back at you.
Although there are numerous suggestions in nature that could point to a triune creator, but the fact of the matter is that there is absolutely nothing in or known universe that is analogous with the first cause.
Analogies in nature are not able to give even a Christian a satisfactory comprehension of the dynamics of the triune God, let alone trying to explain to Muslims who are brainwashed at a very young age to believe a very flawed doctrine that members of the God-head are associated with one another through some kind of physical begetting with a timeline.
So the best way to reveal the triune God to Muslims is to point to the way Christ reveals Him to us in the Bible. Every other analogy with have it's shortfalls, and you will open yourself up to criticism and ridicule.
Forsakentoforgiven, you just described modalism. Scripture refutes this idea
Although to be fair to Forsakentoforgiven, some of what was said was trinitarian, but I think the last statement of her being a mother, a daughter and a wife falls dangerously inline with modalism. Just my 2 cents.
Just so that people don't get confused from Anthony's nonsense, the following links will fully explain everything I said, which are also elaborated on in the post that Anthony linked:
You haven't answered anything in your articles. If you thought you had an answer to my argument, which has nothing to do with the Trinity and everything to do with the irrationality of what the Qur'an says about Allah as an ensouled being, then you would provide it instead of giving ten links and expecting people to go rummaging through them in a vain effort to find something even remotely relevant. When you come up with an answer, please provide it here (minus the links to your website which I never visit).
Come on Osama,
why are you the only one giving links. Cant you defend you position with out the irrelevant links ?
When a muslim is cornered or caught in their deception or lie,or get'flustered'in their illogical theology, they will inundate the debate, post and response with mindless, worthless, irrelevant, diatribe or empty verbiage.
@Osama clearly shows that... with worthless links, he is unable to articulate, the way we Christians have done so & with Biblical references.
Believe me, you are becoming more and more irrelevant by the day. And I am still waiting for those images of the email-viruses that I supposedly sent you. When you are you gonna publish those? You made the claim, but are too scared to prove it because it'll expose what a ludicrous and irrelevant person you are?
I am waiting...
Allow me to explain Jesus in the simplest way possible.
Jesus is the word of God as we all know. it actually means that in the beginning, God had a plan/will within Him.He made the will/plan known by speaking. The spoken word of God from the beginning is Jesus- He's the first born of all creation, the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end, the will/plan of God. God's word accomplishes it's purpose at right time that was predetermined at the beginning by God. It means that everything in heaven and earth in between beginning and end is accomplished through the word,by the word and for the word and at the right time, including creation and judgement. Right time came and the word took flesh and blood to accomplish the will God of saving mankind, because of this, the word of God was now referred to as the Son of God by God. He referred to Himself as son of man to symbolize the bridge between men and God.This where the concept of father/son comes in otherwise it's true to say God and His word. The Father confirmed His word to men when He openly said "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." John also confirmed that He is the only begotten son of God- meaning that He is the only word of God and no other word/will/plan that God will ever have apart from Him. It is fro this reason He (Jesus) is Alpha and Omega. The wicked were already judged from the beginning and the righteous elected before the foundations of the earth were done but at the right time, Jesus Himself/the will of God/The word will execute the judgement physically as it was planned in the beginning. Apart from Jesus, God has no other word/plan/will i.e no islam, no buthism, no atheist, no mohamed e.t.c
Asking if Jesus is the son of God or even doubting is a spirit that had already been exposed comparable to the spirit that tempted Jesus by asking Him "....if you are truly the son of God..." do this and that.
God and His word/will/plan are one and the same never can they be separated. For those who attempted to separate Them, they have already failed from the beginning. Even a mere man can not be separated from his word, how is it possible.
Jesus did not say i speak the truth or i speak peace or i declare love. He is the truth, love, peace because He is the spoken truth,peace,love from God.
Thank you and may you find understanding from God through Jesus His only will/plan for you.
And Osama, if you are “a Truth seeker” why do you keep pontificating to us as if you already know the truth? And how can you be a Truth seeker when all you do is practice Taqiyya and lie to everyone, as anyone who reads your articles and comments can see? Don’t you know that by lying to us all the time that you are practicing the deeds of the father of lies/Satan? Do you not understand how a Holy God would view this kind of thing?
“But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and ALL LIARS—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
The fact that the Quran permits lying to the unbeliever shows that it must be the devil’s book, since to lie to people is to lead them away from the truth. Christ on the other hand never commanded us to lie to unbelievers.
Wake-up Osama Abdallah, please answer Anthony Roger’s question, if you know it, by 2-3 lines! It is interesting to know that Quran believed to be a book dropped from heaven has contradiction in describing form of Allah. Quran 42.11 and 112.4, it describes Allah has no like. But again Quran 55.17, 38.75, 54.14 etc., it says Allah have face, hands, eyes and sitting on throne. Don’t you find Osama, without spin, it is contradictory statement about Allah?
But on the other hand the Bible from Genesis to Revelation describes Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Spirit as Truth and Spirit.
A blind cannot show path to another blind, Osama.
This post has nothing to do with your nefarious and disreputable internet activity which includes spreading viruses and forging fake emails to other people. We already hashed that issue out and the information was posted and people can make up their own mind.
This post is about how your deity is an ensouled being with a body and how this follows from your own reasoning. You said your position was logical, remember? Now refute the syllogism I provided from your the premises YOU provided.
It is fairly clear by your responses that you feel very uncomfortable, if not distressed about answering Anthony's question. This is not to your shame as any normal human would feel similarly when the answer had the potential to disprove, or at least challenge a religious belief that you hold as an absolute certainty.
Perhaps this is part of your problem, that is, that you are holding a belief that, at best, you can only be reasonably certain about as if it is an absolute certainty. I would argue that you cannot even be reasonably certain about this, but perhaps if you take a step back to try arguing your case as 'beyond reasonable doubt' you will have more success.
Its an excellent exercise to give a defence of our faith when called upon. As Al-Ghazali once speculated, if our beliefs cannot stand up to rigourous inquiry then they are probably not beliefs worth defending.
That is all that is happening here. You are being asked to give a reasonable explanation for your beliefs. The fact that some, including myself, disagree with you should not cause you to recoil as if you are being personally attacked.
If you have seen how many people are following this post, you will realize that you have an opportunity here to put forward a reasonable and intelligent explanation that will be read by many. This is an opportunity that not many of your fellow Muslims get to have.
If you are not able to answer the question reasonably and intelligently, as has been politely requested of you, that is not a mark against you Osama. It is, however, a mark against Islam.
In speaking with many muslims I have learned that speaking with them is very good as you sow a seed that may take root. I have learned that you can have the best argument that is ironclad irrefutable but the person on the other end of the argument will argue anyways because to them no matter how great your argument that person is still right. We all should pray for Osama and place him before the Lord Jesus as He alone can change hearts.
are you going ever going to give an intelligent reply or are you just going to insult and give us needless links. It has been several days and you are very silent, at least on this blog
stvn: Osama's doing what he always does when confronted with his inconsistent logic and insults: he hides for a few days, and then posts again on a new topic with the same arguments hoping everyone will forget his arguments and insults before (and if they do bring them up, he's sure to just ignore those posts).
i certainly seems so because i have seen him on other post.
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