Thursday, November 27, 2014

Andrew Livingston vs. Anthony Rogers: Was Muhammad a True Prophet?

Was Muhammad a true prophet? Muslim convert Andrew Livingston certainly thinks so. But can his reasons for believing in Muhammad stand up to scrutiny? In this debate, Christian apologist Anthony Rogers puts Livingston's arguments to the test. Sam Shamoun moderates.

36 comments:

King Arthur said...

and in this corner......we have anthony 250lbs of intensity, no losses , heavy weight champion
.
and in the other corner we have andrew......135lbs challenger with a degree in islamic braille; school of the blind wearing lots of baggage making his total weight 300lbs
.
and the winner is?.........lol

TPaul said...

Excellent work Anthony,

Somehow it seemed from Andrew's presentation, rebuttal, answers and dealing with the entire topic, that he lacks the ability to debate.

He never effectively answered or rebutted any of the three points that Anthony brought up to refute his argument that Mohammed was a true prophet.

I really didn't see the point of his reading the entire lengthy surah, as if that was supposed to rebut something Anthony said. Did you understand what he was trying to do, besides probably try and kill time?

I hope and pray that some day this confused man comes to his senses and renounces Islam as a false religion, that we all know is the only thing true about Islam.

Anthony Rogers said...

David, thanks for putting this video up.

Anthony Rogers said...

TPaul,

I think he was trying to kill time, as you suggested, and the reason he thought reading Surah 9 was a good choice for doing so is because he thought I quoted S. 9:29 in order to bring up Jihad. In fact, the reason I quoted the passage was to show the elevated status of Muhammad in the Qur'an.

Since just hearing that passage triggered to his mind the need to defend Muhammad's teachings on Jihad shows I think a troubled conscience over the matter. To quote Shakespeare: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Zack_Tiang said...

It was a terrible attempt by Mr Andrew. Was rather unbearable listening to him.

Why is it when putting Islam and its teaching or Muhammad on the defense, Muslim debaters will ALWAYS resort to put aside defending Islam and focus almost 80-90% of their case towards 'debunking' the bible or apostle Paul; as if that helps their defense for Islam?
Almost without fail they will do that.

carnavale said...

Surat An-Nur [24:35]
I wonder why none of the apologist bring this versus up on a debate. It literally describes God!

QuranIsCorrupt2 said...

1:29:00 He said that Aisha said "we heard" about Muhammad's suicide accounts...well SHE WAS NOT MARRIED to Muhammad when Muhammad wanted to kill himself.
Muhammad was married to Kadejah and she was already dead by than and so was Warraqa bin Naouful so of course Aisha would say "We heard Muhammad tried to kill himself" because she wasn't around then. But doesn't mean it didn't happen.

If that was the case than there is no proof of Muhammad's prophet hood because it was both Kadejah and Warraqa who said he was a prophet.They are same ones who said Muhammad tried to kill himself...so than according to Andrew the validation of Muhammad's prophet hood died with both of them and it is JUST HEAR SAY he was a prophet.

40BelowTrooper said...

Along the lines of what QuranIsCorrupt2 said, it makes no sense for him to bemoan the point that "Aisha heard" Muhammad felt suicidal. If this is his standard then he must throw out all of the Ahadith and is a heretic. The whole of Ahadith is nothing more than, "so-and-so heard from so-and-so who heard from so-and-so"!

40BelowTrooper said...

It's unfortunate that Mr. Livingston (by his own admission) couldn't understand Anthony's argument about Allah and his attributes and their effect on Tawheed. I found them most convincing.

Maybe next time you guys can find someone more on Anthony's level in regard to theology.

Nimochka said...

I have a question for brothers David and Anthony:
I was wondering what do you think of the approached mentioned bellow while witnessing to Muslims?

When the conversation starts they invariably attack the Trinity right of the bat. It doesn’t matter what you say, just this Trinity concept is a big hurdle for them to jump since Islam is this one-trick-pony whose only claim to fame as opposed to other regions is that it supposedly teaches the purest Monotheism around! They are so proud of that that they cannot so easily give it up and this is usually a very big obstacle for them in accepting the Gospel.

So over time I have come to the conclusion that for the Christian to waste time trying to prove to a negatively predisposed Muslim that Trinity is in fact Monotheism is really a diversion and a fool’s errand. They are never going to accept or even understand why one God with three persons is a logically coherent concept. So instead of getting all defensive and go like: “Oh, no, no, no! We don’t believe in three Gods!! We believe in one God! You misunderstand the Trinity, etc…” I just say: “Why you Muslims think Monotheism is a virtue in and of itself! The Satan worshipers are Monotheists too! Why do you, Muslims think that there is something inherently virtuous in worshipping only one god?!! Please explain why!” At this point they usually are a bit off balance and shocked and in unfamiliar territory. They expect to hear this from a Hindu or pagan, but not from a Christian. So I put them on the defensive and make them defend why Monotheism is good and polytheism is bad, which they usually cannot do a good job of and they usually realise it and after that they really soften up.

Then I come in and try to solve their conundrum by saying this: It is really not important how many Gods or which God one worships as long as these Gods or God is the real one who created the universe. Right!? The only thing that matters is that one doesn’t waste his time worshiping false God/Gods which is/are useless and powerless and unworthy. If one God created the universe I want to worship that God, if ten Gods created the world I would want t know and worship all ten of them. But then we know the truth about our God and who exactly He is through His revelation in the scriptures. Otherwise we would have remained in the dark. And the only reason we Christians believe that there is only one God who created the universe is BECAUSE He has said so in the Bible. And the same Bible shows us very clearly that also Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God. In order for us to ponder and explain the complex nature of our God as revealed in the Bible we use the Trinitarian language. That is not to say it is very simple to grasp or easy to understand, but God is not supposed to be easy to understand. So to recap the same scripture that compels us to worship only one God also compel us to worship Jesus and the Holy Spirit as God! Otherwise according to us there is NO INHERENT VIRTUE in worshiping one God. The only reason we are Monotheists is because the God that has revealed Himself to us through scripture has said that He is only one. And he also shows us through the same scriptures that he has three persons. Fine with us! He says and we obey! Because we have no other way to know who and how he is but through his revelation.... Part1

Nimochka said...

...Part2... Besides you may worship only one God, but not the right and true God, the creator of heaven and earth, but a false God instead. Then I explain that in the ancient world there were many pagans who were devoted to one deity, but that deity had characteristics that exposed him as a false God (like internal consistency as brother Anthony showed) or he was good and benevolent( and an evil god cannot be perfect) etc… And then after that I proceed to debunk Allah as one such God and Quran as a faulty revelation and so on..

I have gotten good, positive results with this approach. But I was wondering if you guys who are strong in logic and apologetics see any inconsistency or heresy or anything faulty with it. I am not formally trained in these things so I cannot be the judge of that. Please let me know if you have the time. Thanks and God bless you.

smalltallest88 said...

@Nimochka
“Why you Muslims think Monotheism is a virtue in and of itself! The Satan worshipers are Monotheists too! Why do you, Muslims think that there is something inherently virtuous in worshipping only one god?!! Please explain why!”


I once chat with a Christian convert to muslim about Satan worshippers also been monotheist. I think at that juncture the guy just went off and he never talked about the trinity.

Osama Abdallah said...

Anthony,

Your nonsense is nothing new. The reason brother Andrew thoroughly went through Noble Surah 9 was to thoroughly disprove one of your nonsenses that you have put forth in the debate. As always, when one does a deep dive into any of your claims, he finds them to be one of the following:

1- Absurd.
2- Empty.
3- False.
4- Dumb.


Brother Andrew thoroughly silenced you on Noble Surah 9 after he thoroughly went through it. And of course, if he has done so with the rest of your phony rubbish, then the same result would've been accomplished. But time obviously didn't permit him.

May Allah Almighty bless brother Andrew for his efforts, and may Allah Almighty strengthen his Faith in Islam more and more. Ameen.

Osama Abdallah

Osama Abdallah said...

"and in this corner......we have anthony 250lbs of intensity, no losses , heavy weight champion
.
and in the other corner we have andrew......135lbs challenger with a degree in islamic braille; school of the blind wearing lots of baggage making his total weight 300lbs
.
and the winner is?.........lol"

And the winner is? And you "lol" it? Let's get some facts here:

1- Your entire team could not produce one verifiable Muslim who left Islam.


2- Your "Converts" out of Islam are all ones who were non-Muslims, then converted to Islam, and then left Islam. I met one of them in Michigan, and he looked fake to me. On top of that, he looked like either a gangster or a drug dealer from the way he was dressed.

3- On the other hand, not only non-Muslims are embracing Islam, but they are stepping forward to debate you. Produce one former Muslim, especially one who speaks good Arabic who can be verified and is willing to debate us. You have none.

So, so much for your "no losses" rhetoric.

Osama Abdallah

Anthony Rogers said...

Don't mind Osama. He is still sore about our last two debates:

Was Muhammad Prophesied in the Bible?

Impromptu Debate on the Deity of Christ

Tom said...

I just cant believe we have to put up with this utter imbecile,
@Osama Abdallah.

Feel so sorry for Brother David Wood, that he has to spend good money & sit through 2 hrs of garbage from this guy @Osama Abdallah!

smalltallest88 said...

@Osama

Why can't he read the whole Quran just to prove his time wasting point instead of read just Surah 9?
From what you are sayng, you want to see Muslim convert to Christian. And when you see one, they don't look Christian to you because they dress like gangster. *smiles*

It has even gotten to a point where you find a muslim convert to Christian that speak good arabic. Lol
Do I as a muslim need to communicate to God in arabic only? If your answer is yes then your god is not a universal god because I can't imagine everybody studying and understandng arabic but I can imagine people knowing, worshipping, praising and praying to God in their own language.

Maybe you come to Nigeria and see a whole lot of muslim convert to Christians. Just in my church were I worship, you'll find a lot of them. I have a friend in secondary school then who will always pray when it's time for prayer even though we're having class but today is now a Christian and a hot one to say.

Keep looking for a muslim convert to Christian who dresses like Muhammad and speak arabic like Allah.

King Arthur said...

re: Osama Abdallah said...
1...2...3...blah blah blah
.
there is definitely a disconnect here....Osama your zeal has completely consumed your ability to reason logically....it would be funny, but I know your spirit is approaching judgement; so I sincerely grieve for you.
.
.
I believe I can speak for the brethren here including anthony: that though christians expose and trash the evil in islamic theology ...the motives are pure; that you and muslims alike might be able to see the eternal deception you cling to, and let go of it and seek after the true One God and the atonement in love He offers.

chris J said...

@Nimocka ....Your method seems interesting.
I will definitely try it.
Thanks

Tom said...

Dear David Wood & Anthony Rogers:

There is this guy user ID
@ abuzahrah071 at the YT site,

Who made this statement which I thought warranted your attention:

"take a look at the latest article. And I just got off the air trying to debate your David Woods, and guess what, You guessed it, then cut me off, and then tried to refute me without even allowing me to make the case. This is what you guys do. But we will be making arrangements to get to debate all of them, God Willing. In the meantime, I will continue to reprimand and refute you all and prove to you from your own book that your beliefs are in fact wrong. The most recent article and post is just part of it. So what brave knight in armor wants to stand up and address this post. Although still to the moment, you have not addressed a tip of what I sent."

He seem to intimate that you just had a live show & cut him off!
He has been making the usual imbecile muslim arguments..

David Wood said...

We did cut him off. We had a topic to discuss, and he calls in and starts rambling about Rebecca being three years old when Isaac married her, claiming that Christian scholars grant this. When I asked him to name a SINGLE Christian scholar who says this, he couldn't, so he got cut. No point in dealing with people like that.

Tom said...

Hi David,

Thanks for the response.

Ok, sorry I wasnt aware you had a live show going on..

He has been using the talmud argument on the Rebecca story about being 3 years old etc.., not knowing that it does not form any part of our Christian literature!

I think that is when he started to change it to say "Christian scholars".

And we have refuted him, using the Bible details.

I will post your response to the site.. as some has already indicated he is a nutter that is why he got cut off!

Dacritic said...

There is a new movie out in cinemas across East Asia now, called Rise of The Legend. In that movie, there is a villain who runs a prostitution racket. There is a scene where after scrutinising a number of very young girls, he proceeds to take one of them for himself.







Reminds of someone, that. I wonder if it reminds the Muslims in the cinema of someone too.

Tom said...

Dear Brother David,

just to update you on that twisting muslim @abuzahrah071 :

"Did David Wood tell uou that I mentioned a few points that I wanted him to address and that was just one of them? Did he lie as he always do and tell you that I said Christian scholars supports that? When in fact I said bible scholars. And in particular Jewish scholars......"

Have responded to him, basically,asking him, does he accept the Jewish viewpoint that muahmmad is Not a prophet and koran says Jesus is the Messiah,which the Jews also reject!
Shalom.

smalltallest88 said...

Imagine chatting with a muslim some few hours ago and he brought up Deutronomy 18:15-20 to say that was his prophet been mentioned there. I just laugh at him because he just shot himself and his prophet with that verses. The verse are too clear even for a dunce to understand but how this muslims folkd miss this verses is something that is beyond imagination.

The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him. 16 For this is what you asked of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of the Lord our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die.”

17 The Lord said to me: “What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him. 19 I myself will call to account anyone who does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”


Muhammad fail all what this verse talks about. My prayer is that God should open the inner eyes of our muslims friends to the truth.

Royal Son said...

Osama, talking about fake Muslims, I've actually heard some claim that you're a fake Muslim because nobody could seriously put up such a ridiculous clown show in attempting to defend Islam the way you have.
I'm not saying that you are fake though. I'm pretty sure you put your heart and soul into those debates, and you've managed to convince yourself of your absurd arguments.


Think about it...

smalltallest88 said...

I was reading Quran 2 today and I Was really amazed that 1.8billion people believed that the Quran Only contain Allah's word.
Infact the whole story was a distorted one. The devil is really powerful in deceiving Muhammad and muslim in general. My 8 years old kid brother if handed the Quran to read will not need a rocket scientist to tell him that this is not a book that contain the word of one person.

Aaron said...

Apparently there is a abuzahrah071 who is trying to seek attention from David and Anthony by writing over 600 hundred words in the comments section on the youtube video.

apparently there are some huge mist understanding of christian belief on his part and i am not surprised

Anthony Rogers said...

Aaron,

Abu didn't watch the debate and only wants to ramble about everything that pops into his head. I don't have time to respond to endless comments, so I told him to send me his info to set up a debate, but he refuses to do so.

Tom said...

@ Anthony Rogers

Great, I have been dealing with this perverse clown..and yes, he mindlessly rambles..

He has been stating that you guys have been hanging up on him and he trying to set up debate and all that BS..

Will post what you just wrote, Mr Rogers, Thanks.

Tom said...

Hi Guys, David Wood & Anthony Rogers:

Just would like to update you what this guy's latest claims :

@abuzahrah071


"..... I sent my formal request to Mr. Wood and I personally refuted his empty and lying article about "thighing". I sent him that personally to his email and I re posted it to you,.....Let him now respond to me. And if he doesn't n, I will expose the emails as well......."

Very loud mouth, typical muslim diatribe and ramblings.

Shalom.

David Wood said...

Tom,

The guy is a childish imbecile. He sent me a message calling me a liar, so I told him that he'd better show me where I lied or our conversation was over. Then he started sending me Yahya Snow's materials (the bottom of the bottom of the Islamic barrel), basically saying I'm interpreting things wrong. I simply don't have time to deal with people who toss around childish accusations, so I blocked him.

Tom said...

Hi Brother David,

Thanks for the response.. Yes he is truly of a puerile mind...

Are you alright, I post your response on YT?

Could I know, How much effort did he make to set up a debate.. ie did he make efforts to provide details of himself etc..?

He think he is the prophesied muslim "mahdi"...LOL.

Tom said...

Dear brother David,

I apologise for bringing this up...
This guy is full of himself..@abuzahrah071

Is there a possibilty of this taking place:

"....and debate me on the trinity channel, LIVE!......"

Thanks David.

David Wood said...

Sure. We can debate "Was Muhammad a True Prophet?"

Tom said...

Dear brother David,

Thanks for the response.