Monday, May 12, 2014

Muhammad in Song of Solomon 5:16?

The Qur'an puts Muslim apologists in a difficult position by claiming that the Bible contains clear prophecies about Muhammad (see Qur'an 7:157 and 61:6). Muslim writers, speakers, and debaters have had nearly fourteen centuries to find these prophecies, so if they can't show us where the Bible talks about Muhammad, we can only conclude that the Qur'an is wrong when it appeals to the Bible for support.

Some of the arguments our Muslim friends use seem to be based on sheer desperation. For instance, popular Muslim apologists like Zakir Naik and Shabir Ally claim that Muhammad is mentioned by name in Song of Solomon 5:16. Zakir Naik writes:
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:

"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."

"His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem."

In the Hebrew language -im is added for respect. Similarly -im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as "altogether lovely", but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.
Shabir Ally adds:
Now what remains is for us to specify where in the Bible to find mention of our prophet. In the Old Testament there are many references. The most significant is Song of Solomon, chapter 5, verse 16. This verse mentions our prophet by name. It says in the Hebrew language Bibles "He is Muhammad." But English translations have "He is altogether lovely" instead of the real truth. You need to insist that, since it says our prophet's name in the Hebrew, the "altogether lovely" translation is nothing more than a camouflage hiding our prophet's name. Tell every Bible reader whether Jew or Christian to ask any Hebrew scholar to read the Hebrew word which appears as "altogether lovely" in the translation. You will hear that word pronounced "Muhammad." Why then hide what you should believe?
For anyone who has read Song of Solomon, this is an amazing verse to cite as evidence for Islam! Song of Solomon is a short poetic book about a loving, physical relationship between Solomon and his bride (there are a variety of interpretations, but none will help turn this into a prophecy about Muhammad). Some Muslims claim that this book can't be the Word of God, because of the way Solomon and his bride talk about each other's bodies. For example, in chapter 7, verses 1-3, Solomon says to his bride:
How beautiful your sandaled feet, O prince's daughter! 
Your graceful legs are like jewels, the work of an artist's hands. Your navel is a rounded goblet that never lacks blended wine. Your waist is a mound of wheat encircled by lilies. Your breasts are like two fawns, like twin fawns of a gazelle.
Solomon continues praising her body. And yet Muslims go to this book to find a prophecy about Muhammad!

Let's turn to chapter 5, which supposedly mentions Muhammad by name. In the first verse of the chapter, Solomon says:
I have come into my garden, my sister, my bride; I have gathered my myrrh with my spice. I have eaten my honeycomb and my honey; I have drunk my wine and my milk.
Solomon talks about drinking wine. But again, Muslims go to this chapter to find a prophecy about Muhammad!

Let's read the so-called prophecy of Muhammad in context. In verse 8, Solomon's bride says to her friends, "Daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you—if you find my beloved, what will you tell him? Tell him I am faint with love."

Her friends respond in verse 9 by asking her, "How is your beloved better than others, most beautiful of women?"

She answers them in verses 10 through 16. Let's read the passage and see if we can spot the prophecy about Muhammad.

Solomon's bride says:
My beloved is radiant and ruddy, outstanding among ten thousand.

His head is purest gold; his hair is wavy and black as a raven.

His eyes are like doves by the water streams, 
washed in milk, mounted like jewels.

His cheeks are like beds of spice yielding perfume. His lips are like lilies dripping with myrrh.

His arms are rods of gold set with topaz. His body is like polished ivory decorated with lapis lazuli.

His legs are pillars of marble set on bases of pure gold.
 His appearance is like Lebanon, choice as its cedars.

His mouth is sweetness itself; he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, this is my friend, daughters of Jerusalem.
This last verse, according to our Muslim friends, is somehow about Muhammad. Why should we interpret this verse as a prophecy about Muhammad? Muslims reason that, since the Hebrew for "altogether lovely" is machmadim, and machmadim sounds somewhat similar to the name "Muhammad," the verse is actually referring to Muhammad by name. (Note: Zakir Naik claims that the suffix -im is "added for respect" in Hebrew, but this is sheer nonsense. The suffix -im is added to form the plural, which may be a plural of intensity, i.e., "altogether." But let's forgive this blunder and pretend that the word used is the singular "machmad," which is closer to "Muhammad.") So Song of Solomon 5:16 should be translated:
His mouth is sweetness itself; he is Muhammad. This is my beloved, this is my friend, daughters of Jerusalem.
Notice a couple of points here. First, this is Solomon's bride talking. So if Solomon's bride is delivering a prophecy about Muhammad, then she is a prophetess, according to our Muslim friends (unless the author of Song of Solomon is merely portraying her as a prophetess).

Second, the bride is praising a man's body. This makes perfect sense if she's talking about her husband. But if our Muslim friends insist that she's talking about Muhammad, they're accusing Solomon's bride of lusting after another man (Muhammad) in a vision given to her by God.

Third, if 5:16 is about Muhammad, then Solomon's wife calls Muhammad her "beloved." But in chapter 7, verse 10, she says, "I belong to my beloved, and his desire is for me." Since Muhammad is her beloved (according to the Islamic interpretation), she declares in 7:10 that she belongs to Muhammad and that Muhammad desires her. How did Solomon's bride belong to Muhammad? Why would Muhammad desire a woman who had been dead for more than fifteen centuries?

Either Song of Solomon is an extremely troubling story about a time-traveling adulterous love affair between Solomon's bride and Muhammad, or the book simply has nothing to do with Muhammad.

But things get worse for our Muslim friends. The word machmad is used in many places in the Old Testament. It refers to something pleasing, treasured, or lovely. So if machmad is actually Muhammad's name, we need to be consistent and say that wherever the word machmad is used, it's referring to Muhammad. Let's consider two passages that use the word machmad and see what happens if we translate the word as "Muhammad."

In Ezekiel 24:16, Ezekiel's wife is called "machmad," because she's treasured by Ezekiel. So if machmad means "Muhammad," Muhammad must have been Ezekiel's wife! Is that what any Muslim believes? Of course not. So why do Muslims keep telling us that machmad means "Muhammad"?

Just five verses later in Ezekiel, God tells the children of Israel that Jerusalem will be conquered and that the temple will be destroyed. He says, "I am about to desecrate my sanctuary—the stronghold in which you take pride, the delight of your eyes" (Ezekiel 24:21). The word "delight" here is machmad. So if machmad is the name "Muhammad," God is promising to desecrate Muhammad! Is that what Shabir Ally and Zakir Naik want us to believe God is saying? (For further uses of machmad, see 1 Kings 20:6; 2 Chronicles 36:19; Lamentations 1:10-11; 2:4; Isaiah 64:11; Ezekiel 24:25; Hosea 9:6; and Joel 3:5.)

This is what happens when Muslim apologists try to force Muhammad into the Bible. They go to a passage in which Solomon's bride is praising her husband's body, and they expect us to believe that she's actually having adulterous thoughts about a future prophet. Shabir Ally and Zakir Naik take a perfectly normal Hebrew word and try to transform it into a prophecy of Muhammad, but in doing so they end up claiming that Muhammad was Ezekiel's wife and that God promises to desecrate him!

Since Shabir calls Song of Solomon 5:16 the "most significant" reference to Muhammad in the entire Old Testament, we can only wonder how persuasive the rest are!

For more on Song of Solomon 5:16 and its supposed reference to Muhammad, be sure to visit the following links:

35 comments:

Unknown said...

I don't think this is the strongest arguments Muslims can make from the Hebrew language here. There is a kol (all) there before machamaddim, so if we take the Islamic translation literally it would be, "all of him is Muhammed???" Or "he is wholly Muhammed???" Or "he is very Muhammed???" I don't see how that makes sense.

I don't see how this fits in line with the first sentence. Especially since this is Hebrew parallelism.

His mouth is most sweet, he is very Muhammed????" I think it's best to render it, "he is very desirable."

goethechosemercy said...

Quote:
Muslims reason that, since the Hebrew for "altogether lovely" is machmadim, and machmadim sounds somewhat similar to the name "Muhammad," the verse is actually referring to Muhammad by name.
end

That's not reasoning.
That's wishful thinking.

Jihad Valiyaveettil said...

For some reasons if u take the solomon 5:16 in to google translate and changed Hebrew in to English it tells Uncle Mhmdim, not even Mchmdim.
"Wait sweets have run out
My uncle Mhmdim
And that my friends daughters
Against Jerusalem" This is what google translate 5:16 solomon in to.

Jihad Valiyaveettil said...

For some reasons if u take the solomon 5:16 in to google translate and changed Hebrew in to English it tells Uncle Mhmdim, not even Mchmdim.
"Wait sweets have run out
My uncle Mhmdim
And that my friends daughters
Against Jerusalem" This is what google translate 5:16 solomon in to.

A. J. Wrigglesworth said...

Just wondering if anyone has caught on to the fact that machamaddim (plural of machamad) is an adjective and not a noun (proper name)?

shahid husain said...

All our Christian friends perhaps don't know the meaning of the word 'Mohammad'. It's meaning is ' the praised one'. So, if they apply the meaning to the translation they accept that the verse is about Prophet Mohammad.

Muhammad Jamil Gamutan said...

Salam
wa Shalam
aw Kalinaw

Indeed, each has its own understanding or interpretation. The pure of intent, the pure of heart desire how about the challenge - Mubahalah

This is: 'And unto him who disputeth with thee therein, after the knowledge hath come unto thee, Say! 'come ye, let us summon our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves and then let us invoke and lay the curse of God on the liars!' (Qur'an 3:61)

In the lifetime of Muhammad was the challenge accepted by those who denied Muhammad as the Truthful One.

Muhammad Jamil Gamutan said...

Salam wa Shalom aw Kalinaw

There is a challenge in the not so distant past - Mubahalah

This is: 'And unto him who disputeth with thee therein, after the knowledge hath come unto thee, Say! 'come ye, let us summon our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves and then let us invoke and lay the curse of God on the liars!' (Qur'an 3:61)

Maybe those who claim authority accept the challenge.

MoOH Alma said...

חכו ממתקים וכלו מחמדים זה דודי וזה רעי בנות ירושלם׃
מחמדים
מחמדים מחמדים .. First of all , we all studied that Names are Names, we can not translate it or give it another Name because it is already.. like humans names..
So, if you look in old testament ( Hebrew ) in song of solomon 5:16, it is
חכו ממתקים וכלו מחמדים זה דודי וזה רעי בנות ירושלם׃ , and מחמדים is mhmd , go translate it in google to english or german or any language it will give you mhmd or mahmad.. Or ask a native speaking hebrew to read it to you and focus in hear the sound of what he say and you will hear it from him so clear.. and bible is faked after they translated it..
his mouth is most mouth, he is mohamed . there is no very .
http://biblehub.com/text/songs/5-16.htm
this is a christian site, go check it ..
and when you read the sentens with mohamed than it make sense.. and finish the misunderstanding between the 3 holy religions..

Islam Peace said...

http://islamqa.info/en/10116

Jay said...

The desperate attempt of Muslims trying to insert the ishmealite fake prophet muhammad into a no prophecy love poem

My Faith Lord Jesus Christ said...

Even i came accross Mr Deedat saying in humorus tone not even taking effort to read this words context with meaning. hebrew is a combine to 2 word mah= ? and maddim = loveable, can anyone in the word name themself with ? meaning. can i have a meaning for my name How praised.... This false utterance to fit their scope in our BIBLE.

My Faith Lord Jesus Christ said...

Why u look for translation, please go and find the meaning of the word used and what is its construction this word. Then we will take further.

Unknown said...

the translation of the Hebreu Song of Solomon 5:16:
חכו ממתקים וכלו מחמדים זה דודי וזה רעי בנות ירושלים
as https://translate.google.com.
is: Wait sweets and mind Mhmdim this uncle and that my friend, daughters of Jerusalem.
MHMDIM here is the name "MHMD" of prophet Muhammad, plus the word "IM" witch means in Hebreu :someone who has a great ranking.
it's like when we mention prophet Muhammad in arabic we say after: God's peace be upon him.

Danise said...

I dont know where your getting that the bride is lusting? She is just decribing him. And she is telling the daughters of jerusalem that he is her friend. And desires her meaning wanting her to believe he will come, as she is wanting to believe. When your kids misbehave you get this desire to ground them. Desire doesnt always mean lusting. This guy is clearly confused who wrote this. But I suggest everyone read with the willing of a clear understanding and openess to learn.

Addie said...

Thank you Danise, also Mohamad came long after the Old and New Testament, so how could she have had a love affair, its Absurd!

My Faith Lord Jesus Christ said...

Hi Addie, may be mohammad liked this name and may have borrowed.
But in Hb the word Mahammdim is combination Noun+Verb. Ex: Glad is a Noun, and How is a verb so no foolish person in the word would keep his/her name a combination of N+V How Glad...... its seems utter senseless...and this muslim preacher h/l their mistake so cofidently.
Our Lord YHWH has no reason to include the doctrine of evolution and his inventor Mr mohammad in our HOLY BIBLE. else it contradicts the nature (ELOHIM the creator) and ADONAI The LORD GOD CREATION to null and void.
Our Lord teaches us to love another humans because we are made in the likeness of God.Destroying Human is destroying the creation of LORD....can we afford to do than. But the evultionist has no care for creation because man evolved from tiny aimless molecules, rotating in the universe and evoled to present form over several 100+ yrs . How people follow this concept blindly.

My Faith Lord Jesus Christ said...

There cant be and can never any thrash in our HOLY BIBLE. because several places the divinity of our LORD Jesus Christ is attested and confirmed by the heavenly Father YHWH, 2 prominent places 1- at baptism of LORD at the hands of John the baptism and before the passion of our saviour. If this 2 verse are deliberately skipped by unbelivers then what they a challenging our faith proves that their conception conceived is false because they have no autenticity to their book. Our Lord Jesus at several places openly proclaims that HE is from HIS Father- Blessed is the ONE who comes in the name of FATHER. what else can these kasais can find these types of pearls and life giving words in their book. Their book only says kill kill and be killed in the name of thier so called god.....if their god is so jeolous and insane that he cant kill others, then what parameter we can use to atleast to think from theological point.....ONLY one way is that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD AND SON OF THE MOST HIGH GOD YHWH ELOHIM>

Salah Dosky said...

Go to the christian website :
http://biblehub.com/text/songs/5-16.htm

there you will find a detailed analyses of each word of the verse, its pronunciation, its meaning and if it is a noun or adjective.. etc.
for the Hebrew word " מַחֲמַדִּ֑ים" it says:

pronunciation :ma-ḥă-mad-dîm;
English meaning: [is] lovely
Morph: Noun
So it is clear that מַחֲמַדִּ֑ is a name and pronounced: "Muhammad"

Simple take that word"מַחֲמַדִּ֑" and put it in any translation software from Hebrew to Arabic it will give you the arabic word " محمد" wich is the name of Muhammed in arabic.

karim fazil said...

I don't know why u argue about this because Christianity started with Paul who claim to hv met Jesus but lies....can any Christian tell me why u people killed Peter in the Vatican...ur words are not truth yet you claim to be people of the book...1commandement tells you that u shall have no other God but one, today u people stand in public saying Jesus is God but him himself said "my God is your God, and my father is your father",u people believe in what u see and a believer doesn't hv those characteristic...go on the bible and find where the land of kedar is, it's say in the "from the land of kedar I will rise a prophet"kedar is the great grand father of mohammad,and last Jesus said to all israelien "u denied me my father will take his Kingdom to another tribe,,if u really are smart..ask yourself what tribe was Jesus referring to???that where the songs of salmon come in....u can deny it all u want but no1 can change the word of God but u Christians are changing the verses in the bible and claim to be believers,,,,ur church catholics is false and its your first Christianity believe and here u came yesterday u talking like u know all...All am sure about is that the same race of Jesus is against your false believe wich a made up believe by the romains to get to rule without sword or war....

Twinkie Twinkler said...

The intro is not very well structured.

Zovra Bashaev said...

Just to clarify. The arabic name Muhammad is an adjective - it means mu-hamd, which means "one who is praiseworthy". You will find the prefix "mu" in a lot of arabic words (mu-slim - one who is at peace, mu-takkabir - one who is arrogant etc).

This is where the connection comes with the greek translation "altogether lovely" being comparable to "one who is praiseworthy". Nobody is saying "prophet Muhammad" the person is referenced in this verse but rather that the same word is used. I believe it is generally used in an ironic sense and was popularised by Ahmed Deedat.

Clearly if one analyses the context of song of solomon it makes no sense that it would refer to a person and certainly not the prophet Muhammad. Furthermore anyone would an understanding of language will know that arabic and hebrew are related to aramaic and therefore there are many words found in both.

I post this in all respect to my Christian brothers. May God protect and guide us all. Ultimately we will all die and face God one day so we must not get angry with each other when discussing and debating religion.

Unknown said...

OK bob

Analizer said...

i have study the songs of solomon too. and yes i do agree that muslims are way out of their head with this one.

first: they take Acts 3:22(KJV) --For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. they claim this is about the prophet mohammed. next they say that John 14:16 is saying that the prophet Mohammed is the ' comforter' BUT if you read ad verse 26 it clearly says that the comforter is the HOLY GHOST, not Mohammed. and now they found a word that sounds like the name of the prophet, they assume it must be him. ridiculous statement if you ask me.

Analizer said...

if we are going to use a word that is in hebrew and it sounds either arabic in name or in objects or what ever and assuming it has arabic meaning, then it can go sideways. did you know that the word 'akbar' in arabic is similar to the hebrew word 'achbar'? which means mouse? so if we... use the logic of a hebrew word that sounds arabic so it(must mean it has a arabic meaning) technique then, whenever i hear a muslim says allahu akbar... your saying God is a mouse!! using your logic lets me downgrade the God of Abraham,isaac and jacob into something smaller then a himan being that i can actually kill!! you see the folly in this? i wanna ask all muslim to go study hebrew/aramaic and find out for yourself what the chapter is really saying, instead of relying on google translators or what somebody else said.

Analizer said...

quote: from the land of kedar I will rise a prophet"kedar is the great grand father of mohammad,and last Jesus said to all israelien "u denied me my father will take his Kingdom to another tribe,,


true God did promise to make ishmael a great nation amd the he will be fruitfull and blessed. and that in the land of Kedar there shall be a prophet. if God had to raise a Prophet to make his promise to Abraham a reality then so be it. who am i to question how the almighty does things, if ofcourse Mohammad is the direct descendent of Kedar.

also about jesus saying that "ye have denied me and my father" strange to see a muslim using this verse because according to them its outrageous for jesus to call GOD his father because GOD can't concieve a child (their reasoning for interpertate some verses literally). and the part of the kingdom will go to another tribe: take note in the same book of isaiah 14:1--For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

after all the disobedience, the denial, the disrespect... for Jacob's sake, he will yet choose Israel (isrealite tribe) so sorry the kingdom is not going anywhere. GOD does not change his promise or word. his is the almighty he is perfection and he is the way of the Truth.

Deborah X said...

I'm really surprised that this claim would even be considered scholarly. Even someone who doesn't read Hebrew can clearly see that in the context of the passage, the bride is discussing her husband. Also, why would Muhammad's name be bured in the relatively obscure and unusual book of Song of Solomon?! Someone who knows Hebrew knows 1)- The "Mem" is simply pre-formative, and not actually part of the root word, 2)- The letter transliterated as "He" is actually pronounced as "Che", thus eradicating any phonetic similarity to "Muhammad", and 3)- The root word is an ADJECTIVE, not a name! I actually had to re-read Shabir Ally's words just to make sure I was seeing correctly, as his claims are beyond ridiculous. The Jewish scholars changed a name into an adjective? Really? I think it would be far more honest and consistent to accept that the Biblical texts do NOT mention Muhammad, and the Qur'an is in error.

My Faith Lord Jesus Christ said...

Hi Deborah, i fully agree with you, & much appreciate your high research text, which proves muhammad father may have copied this adjective, if mohammad changed his name latter, he is poor in grammer. muslim should not call him muhammad, but how lovely. then muslims should know what integrity they hold for their for their text with accurate reliabilty. We christians are aware when a person copies the text of others in disguise form they commit errors which are unkown to them & not logical.
Every muslim if their should forgets this passage purposely in CONTEXT. purposeful error. If they are honest, their only way is leave the errorful text & come bk to HOLY BIBLE.

Khaled T said...

מחמדים

Mem = מ
Het = ח
Mem = מ
Dalet = ד
Majestic Plural = ים

Mhmd or محمد

Its clearly Mhmd Hebrew letters without Vouls.

The Original Hebrew Bible was written without Vouls.

Conclusion the Name is Mhmd arabic محمد hebrew מחמדים with Majestic Plural added

My Faith Lord Jesus Christ said...

I appreciate how you disguise holy text even sensing the contest to the word. Plz confirm the word mhmd used is for professy, If this is not so then where is your stand.(plz follow the context......)
What is this concept of majestic plural.....great on the spot invention. very smart to prove your point by hook or crook.....
Bible needs no mention of such irrelevant fig.

Khaled T said...

Hi My Faith..
Old testament was Written in Ancient Hebrew not English!

Please check this Hebrew Audio Bible link or use any hebrew Audio sites available online and listen.

http://www.aoal.org/Hebrew/AudioBible/31_SongofSongs/31-Song_05.mp3

Download "Songs of Solomom 5 Audio and listen

Go to the 2.29 seconds of the Audio and listen yourself. MHMDim is pronounced. Hebrew מחמדים


Read this Quote

In the Hebrew Bible "ELOHim, when meaning the God of Israel, is mostly grammatically singular. Even in Genesis 1:26 "Then God said (singular verb), 'Let us make (plural verb) man in our image, after our likeness'", Elohim is singular. Wilhelm Gesenius and other Hebrew grammarians traditionally described this as the pluralis excellentiae (plural of excellence), which is similar to the pluralis majestatis(plural of majesty, or "Royal we").

Khaled T said...

I would also Like to reply to Deborah X

Check this link regarding the
Hebrew letter in question

"ח" chet or Het?


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heth


Ḥet or H̱et (also spelled Khet, Kheth, Chet,Cheth, Het, or Heth) is the eighth letter of the Semitic abjads, including Phoenician Hēt ,Hebrew Hēt ח, Aramaic Hēth , Syriac Hēt, and Arabic Hā' ح.

Notice the Semetic Languages

My Faith Lord Jesus Christ said...

Hello Brother agree OLD TESTAMENT WRITTEN in Hb.
Plz explain SOS chap 6 whole. Before jumping to a specific phonetic word mhd-im, Plz explain the relevance of this 3 characters. Is this a prophesy or profound dialouge between intimate lovers at present time or ref to future time, then came back to verse 16 only. Plz dont jump to verse 16 for this word,brother.

Bro, Plz explain in Genesis chap 18 verse 2....in front of him(Abraham) stood THREE MEN(not man).Clue for you, verse 5....."Very well" THEY replied. Verse 8....set it before THE MEN(not man) Plz explain in context from the bible itself.

Khaled T said...

Hi My Faith

Check this Link

http://biblehub.com/text/songs/5-16.htm

In regards to Genesis 18:2

This is called irregular Plural noun "Men"

In regards to The Word MHMDim it is a masculine noun or adjective not a feminine noun. A singular masculine plural.

Fanglima Gk said...

Just wait and see maybe 2020-2025