Wednesday, December 4, 2013

Sam and David on "Jesus or Muhammad?" Tonight at 10:30 P.M. (EST)

Be sure to tune in to ABN tonight at 10:30. If you don't get ABN via satellite, you can watch live here.


Craig said...

Yahweh says to sing a new song with instruments and vocally, why does islam forbid it? Was that corrupted in?

bam bamba said...

I watched you guys Live on ABN today for the first time. Even though I lost my spot on the call line and could not get back in, The program was informative. wonderful and very inspiring. May the Lord keep you and bless you all.

Baron Eddie said...

I could not see the program from the beginning but I got the chance to see the end of it.

I disagree with brother Sam about his comment about "suicide"

The word itself is not mentioned but the commandment is there.

"Thou shall not kill/murder"

God told Adam and Eve not to eat but they disobeyed God's commandment.

I will watch the whole show as when you post it on Youtube.


Sam said...

Baron Eddie, you are misapplying that passage since that passage has absolutely nothing to do with killing oneself. Here is the proof:

"Whoever sheds man’s blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man." Genesis 9:6

"He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death." Exodus 21:12

"If a man [a]takes the life of any human being, he shall surely be put to death." Leviticus 24:17

"You have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not commit murder’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry WITH HIS BROTHER shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be [e]guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. Therefore if you are presenting your [i]offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your [j]offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent." Matthew 5:21-26

"For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother’s were righteous. Do not be surprised, brethren, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. Everyone WHO HATES HIS BROTHER is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." 1 John 3:11-15

All of these texts define what murdering or killing is, and has nothing to do with suicide. In fact, according to you Samson is condemned to hell for basically committing suicide:

"Then Samson called to the Lord and said, 'O Lord God, please remember me and please strengthen me just this time, O God, that I may at once be avenged of the Philistines for my two eyes.' Samson grasped the two middle pillars on which the house rested, and braced himself against them, the one with his right hand and the other with his left. And Samson said, 'LET ME DIE with the Philistines!' And he bent with all his might so that the house fell on the lords and all the people who were in it. So the dead whom he killed at his death were more than those whom he killed in his life. Then his brothers and all his father’s household came down, took him, brought him up and buried him between Zorah and Eshtaol in the tomb of Manoah his father. Thus he had judged Israel twenty years." Judges 16:28-31

Here God grants Samson permission to not only kill his enemies but also kill himself in the process, i.e. suicide. However, you know better than to say that Samson was condemned to hell for this act since a), God gave him the strength to do so and b), Samson is listed in Hebrews 11:32 as a man of faith.

So now please quote a verse where it says that killing oneself is an unforgivable sin. I will be waiting for your proof.

Sam said...

On a related point, even if you could classify suicide under the category of murder (which you cannot), this would actually prove my point since murder IS NOT AN UNPARDONABLE SIN. So I don't know what in the world you are disagreeing with since I never said suicide wasn't a sin. I denied that it is an unpardonable one.

Anthony Rogers said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
me said...

why do they debating with themselves?why not debate openly with zakir naik?duhhh

Tom said...

Sorry,am I missing something, is there such a thing left in the New Testament?

Baron Eddie said...

let us put these verses beside the one you put

19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? 20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.
1 Corinthians 6

28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Matthew 11

24 This is the day the Lord has made;
We will rejoice and be glad in it.
Psalm 118

And Repentance is important

5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.
Luke 13

I simply think that life was given to us by God and God takes it a way at His Will

And that shows in the Lord's prayer "Let your Will be done"


Jesus set an example to us to follow

How killing onself is following Jesus (no way)

That is from the devil who is known as a killer from the beginning.

and we see an example in Judas whom lost "hope" and killed himself!

Thanks Anthony and Sam

Sam said...

Tom, yes there is. Read Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:22-32.

Brother Baron, I am sorry but nothing you wrote addresses my points, nor does it refute what I said concerning suicide. In fact, merely quoting texts without adequately dealing with the ones I raised doesn't clarify or help your case. It only ends up pitting Scripture against Scripture.

Moreover, you indirectly twisted Scripture in the case of Judas, since Judas didn't go to hell because he committed suicide. Rather, he went to hell because he belonged to Satan from the very beginning. Simply read the following texts for the proof: John 6:64, 70-71; 13:2, 18-27; 17:12 (cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4-8). This means that whether he committed suicide or not the result would have been the same, namely, Judas would have died in his sins and went to hell.

And your appeal to Luke 13:1-5 isn't any better since your interpretation of this text would suggest that if we die committing any sin which we haven't confessed and repented of then this automatically cuts off from Christ and lands us in hell. I am sorry but this is nothing more than eisegesis, especially when we compare this in light of texts such as John 10:27-30 and Romans 8:28-39.

Your referencing 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 is no better, in fact, it is even worse, since per your eisegesis this means that if you have people who are destroying their body by eating unhealthy they are guilty of going to hell. That means per your eisegesis you have now added at least two unpardonable sins to the Holy Bible, namely suicide and unhealthy eating habits. even though the Bible only speaks of one. You are quite bold in adding to the Word of God.

And how about reading Psalm 38 and Jeremiah 15:15-21 to balance out your highly selective appeal to Psalm 118 and Matthew 11 in order to see that a Christian life is not always joyful, but can be one filled with trials and suffering. Just as all the Christian martyrs in the first century can attest, being tortured and thrown to the lions or being burned alive wasn't always a happy or joyful feeling.

So let me repeat me challenge again. Please quote a text where it says suicide is an unpardonable sin. Thus far, all you have shown me is that you can misinterpret Scriptures in order to force them to agree with your presupposition that is itself contrary to Scripture. Time to change your thoughts on this matter.

Baron Eddie said...

Brother Sam

You are asking me for something I did not say!

My comment was that I disagreed with you about suicide

I believe that Christianity holds a high value for human life

also that God had sent his Son (Jesus) so that people might have

life more abundantly both here and hereafter ...

God Bless

mwoerl said...

Where's the tour? Nothing but a lecture on Protestant theology in some building with marble walls, which could, or could not be the Kaaba. It seems such filming would be supervised ... If it was supervised, the guy would have been, at least, thrown out, probably shot ...

Sam said...

Brother Baron Eddie,

I do not disagree with you here. However, in the world we live in there have been Christians who have committed suicide. I just recently spoke to a heart broken parent, a committed believer along with the rest of the family, whose child committed suicide because the child couldn't wait to enter God's presence and live with Jesus. Should I assume that person went to hell?

My whole point is that the only sin which God doesn't forgive is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. All other sins are under the blood, which is why I cannot say that a believer who commits suicide isn't saved or has forfeited salvation.

Marina Gallagher said...

I hope you are right, but as far as I can see, things do not look good for the salvation of a Christian who deliberately kills himself.

I think one key passage is I Cor. 3:16-17:

Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

Of course we should not regard this verse out of the context of the total Christian message. There can be forgiveness for people who have committed this sin. St. Paul himself is proof of this, having taken part in the execution of Stephen, and then experiencing God’s mercy, forgiveness, and calling.

But how about a Christian who commits suicide? He has also destroyed God’s temple. Will he not have to undergo destruction by God, which I surmise means perdition (eternal damnation)?

I have hope for people who swallow the pills or jump off the bridge, and then beg God for forgiveness before death sets in. But what about those who throw themselves in front of a racing train or subway (which is a preferred method of suicide where I live)? Here there might not be any time to make such an act of contrition.

One way out of the dilemma, Sam, might be to postulate that people have a chance to repent after death, but I haven’t found any Biblical support for this, and I have spoken to people who know the Bible much better than I do who say repentance after death is not possible. And speaking as a Roman Catholic, I think even in our theology, with our belief in purgatory, one who commits suicide presents a special difficulty.

Be that as it may, the verse above makes me tremble not only for Christians who commit suicide, but also for the numerous jihadists who are murdering Christians.

ignatius said...

Forgive the name attached to the prior message. It was made on a friend's computer, and Marina was not the writer. It is actually a contribution one going by the name Ignatius.

Sam said...

Ignatius, I am sorry to say that not only does the passage you quote NOT PROVE your case, your comments ignore everything I said. So let me try this one more time.

In the first place, you have grossly misread 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 since the one destroying the temple of God is not the same as the temple itself. Let me quote it for you:

"Do you not know that YOU (the believers) are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If ANY MAN destroys the TEMPLE (the believers) of God, God will destroy HIM, for the temple of God is holy, AND THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE."

You have erroneously exegeted the text in such a way that you have the man or person who destroys the temple being a part of or is the same as the temple. I am sorry to say but this is pure eisegesis.

Secondly, your view basically adds another unpardonable sin to the words of Scripture. And yet the only transgression which the Lord says shall never be forgiven is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Now if you can be so kind as to show me that suicide also falls under the category of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, then I would hesitate to add to the words of Scripture if I were you.

Thirdly, per your interpretation a person who doesn't eat well and fails to exercise regularly, but chooses instead to eat unhealthy, will also go to hell because he is willfully choosing to destroy God's temple. In fact, you can apply this to smokers who know that smoking is destroying their health and yet choose to puff away anyway. Therefore, per your interpretation, smokers will also end up in hell for destroying God's temple. So how man unforgivable sins do you want to add to the Word of God?

Finally, you also ignored my comments concerning repentance. If you are correct then that means any specific sin that we have not confessed and asked for forgiveness for will land us in hell. Therefore, could you be so kind as to cite a specific verse which says a person who fails to confess and repent of every SINGLE, SPECIFIC sin that s/he has committed will not be forgiven but will go to hell instead?

Hopefully, you will actually address the point I have raised and not simply repeat claims which have already been addressed.

Sam said...

And I do apologize for all the typos since I normally rush through these responses without going back and double checking them for errors.

Sam said...

BTW, this is going to have to be my final comment on this subject since I really don't have time to go back and forth on this issue.