Wednesday, February 20, 2013

Tonight on ABN: Robert Spencer vs. Mubin Shaikh


Craig said...

I can watch that on tv? What channel?

Craig said...

@ Davis wood or anyone who can help.

When I raise a issue with my Muslim friend and show him the tafsir and/or the sunna on your website they say it's made up and not authentic. Is there anyway to show that the links you've provided on this page are trustworthy?

David Wood said...

You probably don't have the Arabic satellite, but you can watch it live at

If you're quoting Bukhari or Muslim, only ignorant or deceptive Muslims will object, since these are supposedly the most reliable sources. For other sources, you'll have to assess the reliability.

But here's a helpful method regardless of the source. If you provide a hadith, and the Muslim says, "But that Hadith is fabricated," you can respond by saying, "Wow! You mean Muslims were inventing all of these false stories about Muhammad? Why would the Muslim community allow such deception? And how did such deception spread into even your most reliable sources? If what you're saying is true, we CAN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MUHAMMAD, since even your most reliable sources are full of fabrications. Since we can't know anything about Muhammad, we can't know whether he's a true prophet, so we can never accept Islam. In fact, we can't even trust the Qur'an, because the community that was guarding the text of the Qur'an was the same community producing false narrations about Muhammad! In other words, how can I trust a book that was supposedly preserved by a bunch of liars?"

You get the point. Debate Rule #3: Use your opponent's claims to attack his case. Anything he says can and will be used against him.

As an alternative, whenever a Muslim cries "weak Hadith," you can always respond, "Please give me a signed document, by an authoritative scholar of ahadith, saying that this Hadith was fabricated."

Craig said...

@ david wood
I understand what your telling me, what I mean to ask is if I printed out the ibn kathir tafsir and show them what it says, what if they say "that's not the real ibn kathir tafsir"? Are the wwbsites you provide Muslim websites?

David Wood said...

Yes, they're Muslim sites. What kind of delusional nut are you talking to who would suspect that Muslims have fabricated their own Tafsirs?

Craig said...

@ david wood
You know what david my friend that I'm dealing with is honestly in one of the biggest denials I've seen. He Denys anything bad about Islam and says I make it up or I have no real sources. He's making me want to become a polemist like you guys, u actually have sams number, I meet him at the Joel richardson event at wheaton college, I didn't realize how good and realiable you guys were untill after the event. I'm nit a good example to represent Christ but I wannabe learn like you guys and have all the sources but I need to fix myself hopefully soon I will change so I can do so. God bless you guys and thank you for your work

Craig said...

One more thing david sorry you don't have to post this but where can I buy a realiable Arabic -English dictionary?

Search 4 Truth said...

Guess who that was that called in about the tafsir of 60:8 that Mubin attempted to use? This guy right here. LOL

* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ لاَّ يَنْهَاكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي ٱلدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُمْ مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوۤاْ إِلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يُحِبُّ ٱلْمُقْسِطِينَ }

God does not forbid you in regard to those who did not wage war against you, from among the disbelievers, on account of religion and did not expel you from your homes, that you should treat them kindly (an tabarrūhum is an inclusive substitution for alladhīna, ‘those who’) and deal with them justly: this was [revealed] before the command to struggle against them. Assuredly God loves the just.

He really didnt answer. All he said was that he would have to look it up.

But then I mentioned this hadith.

Allah's Messenger called Ali [and said]: “Proceed on and do not look about until Allah grants you victory,” and Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: “Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people?” Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: ”Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger…” (Sahih Muslim 5917)

And he admitted that there is offensive jihad. Which got a smile out of Robert.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ craig

What i have found is that 90% of Muslims lie.

They have to in order to reconcile the lie they live in their minds. You cant expect David or anyone for that matter to do the work for you.

What you have to do is study and read. And whenever a Muslim tells you something check it. Because it is more often than not the opposite of what they say.

Here is a good source for two tafsirs!

Its from the Royal Al Bayt Institute.

And here is a good source for the Quran and some of the hadith

Try and be patient with your muslim friend. He believes the lies he has been told. And it takes patience and information to get them to think their way out of Islam. Until they cannot deny the facts. Many never do. Many of the Muslims that come here are refuted over and over and we refute them yet they still cling to the lies they have been told. They have an unrealistic emotional attachment thats difficult to break.

Craig said...

@ search 4 truth

God bless you, thanks its nice to know I'm not the only one constantly being lied too. I get so frustrated with my friend because he keeps doing exactly what you said. Now I know my friends going to tell me that those website aren't from Muslims. Is there anyway to prove they are? Just so you understand me, I have no problem reading into. The Islamic sources I just wannabe make sure I have the authentic material. My friend has made me really skeptical even about my faith in Christ and I've prayed and researched a lot and it took a lot of talking to different people not one being a family member because I didn't want my family to just tell me what they want so I would believe what they believe. I know now my faith in Christ is true and I thank god whenever I remember that I didn't go to Islam. Once again god bless you people I'm glad y'all are around its definitely need.

Soldier Of Christ said...

Hello Craig,

Your Muslim friend is just acting the way he's been taught to act. Muhammad was a liar, so will be his followers.

Here are great online sources to the authoritative islamic sources.

You can get Ibn Kathir's (abridged)exegesis of the Quran at this site:

You can also look up 4 hadith collections, including Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, the 2 most important hadith collections about Muhammad.

Abu-Dawud (also included) is also part of the 6 best hadith collection.

Your Muslim friend cannot possibly reject theses islamic authoritative sources, a true follower of Islam must follow them.

Radical Moderate said...

I felt bad for the guy. He is obvious a stand up guy however he does not have miswak to stand on.

Radical Moderate said...


Just some back ground on the tasfirs. A few years ago I think it was 2004 or so when I first got into arguing with Muslims the big thing was "The Scholars"... Muslims time and time again would say "You need to go to what the scholars say these are very smart people that have studied Islam and they will tell you what Islam is". The problem was that the "SCHOLARS" where not translated into ENGLISH.

So the Muslim response was either "I read arabic" or "I will find someone who reads arabic and they will tell you what these scholars say... You have to trust me"

To be honest there was a time when I thought "The Scholars" where magical mystical figures.

So fast forwarding a few years, Muslims in there effort to do DAWAH started to translate the classical scholars into English.

Ibn Kathir was the first and it was a archaic website to navigate. You had to start at the first Aya in a surah and then navigate to the next page after next page after next page to find the aya you were looking for.

Then came the Two Jal's and around the same time was Al Qurtabi.

So when confronted with "The scholars" muslims would respond "Oh you got that from a hater site"

Give them the Muslim site they would still say its a "hate site"

Then a couple of years ago Muslims especially non Arabic speaking revert Muslims started to use these Muslim websites.

So then the rebuttle from Muslims switched to "You have to go by" or "Rely on what the scholar say" to

"Who is Ibn Kathir, who is Al QutairbI... these are just men they make mistakes" or to what they now are using more and more is "You have to go by the consensus of the scholars."

When asked "Is this the consensous of the scholars or did say Ibn Kathir make a mistake here" the response is always the same.

"I will have to research that and get back to you" to which they never do.

The same can be said for the hadeeth and even the Quran.

Back in 2004 the only English source of Hadeeth was the UCLA MSA website. Some Jewish guy sued and said they were posting anti Jewish material. The case was settled out of court scrubbing the site of any hadeeths that were deragorty or hateful to Jews and or non jews making it useless. But worse they changed the name to the Jewish and Muslim interfaith dialogue site. Or something like that. Anyway the site is gone now.

But what we do have now is a wealth of Muslim published material. To which I will give you the links in the next comment

Radical Moderate said...


The firs site is on the Quran. If you have only one Quran website in your arsenal make this it.

Corpus Quran

This site was given to me by Shadeed Lewis he has regretted it ever since.

The site has many features the one I love is the WORD FOR WORD translation. Where you can click on every word in a Aya and see every instance of were and how the word or its derivative is used in the Quran.

Another feature is that it gives several English translations side by side.

And just for fun, under every Aya they have a adudio recitation of the Aya. This is really entertaining especially on Paltalk when non Arabic understanding Muslim reverts say to you "You don't understand Arabic."

I like to play it for them and ask them to explain what each word means lol.

The next one is QTasfir which contains Tasfir Ibn Kathir.

Funny story about this site, I was in a Muslim room and a revert Muslim just got her authentic copy of the translations of Ibn Kathir and for days she was reading from it so so happy with it.

Well I read from Ibn Kathir website and she cut me off. Accused me of lying or reading a kaffir translations. Then proceeded to read from her book WORD FOR WORD what it had on the website. Verifying that the website is WORD for WORD from an accepted and promoted Islamic publication.

A great Hadeeth collection is Hadeeth Collection

A Must have book The Reliance of the Traveler. Tools for the Worshiper The Shaffi School of Islamic Fiqh thats Sharia law.

You can download an abridge version for free from the link above a Muslim website but I recommend buying the book from Amazon. The book itself contains a letter of recommendation from the scholars of Al Ansar University in Cairo Egypt attesting to the authenticity and accuracy of the translation.

Muslims hate this book and that its out there, their only objection is that the translator is a Sufi and writes in the apendix a 19 page essay promoting the praying to Mohamed. However his translation is undisputed.

Well that's about it. But do not be surprised that even with this wealth of authentic Islamic source material any Muslim will still reject it and say your just a hater.


Radical Moderate said...


One more thing. Google Translate can be used to entrancement purposes only. If you ever encounter a Muslim on line who says "Yes I can read arabic" type something simple in google translate and then post it see if they can read it. If they don't read it right away and go off on a tangent for a few minutes you will know they are only reading a transliteration lol

Craig said...

@ radical moderate

God bless you, I didn't realize you guys who even study the Islamic sources and engage Islam have to deal with people like this too. Every time I brought something up to my friends they do exactly what you said, "you need to ask a scholar","you need to know Arabic ","your just repeating what lying Christians say", "you don't have any real sources","that's made up by Israelites","you can't trust anything on the internet". Its so frustrating but then when my friend wants to being up problems in the Bible non of that stuff he says applies and he can use the internet and website like "evil". Yet I'm the one who's not being real with myself or using my brain god gave me and I just wannabe make myself feel better because my religion is messed up so I have to bash Islam. Its so horribly inconsistent! Thanks again for your time and resources.

Radical Moderate said...


What I sugest is you show them the sources I provided, ask them what is wrong with those Islamic sources. Then ask them what sources they would recommend for Haddeeth, and Tasfir, and Fiqh.

My guess they will respond with "What bible should they read?"

Give them a good translation to read then repeat your question reminding them that you have answered them. If they refuse to answer or ask another question regarding Christianity then tell them flat out.

"Not going to answer any more questions until you give me your approved Isalmic sources for Hadeeth, Tasfir, and Fiqh.

And then walk away and have nothing to do with them. And find other friends.