Sunday, December 2, 2012

Killing Babies For Allah

For additional material relevant to the issue addressed in the above video, see the following articles:

The Annihilation of the Amalekites

Revisiting God's Command to Kill the Amalekites

The Inconsistency of Bassam Zawadi (Part 1, Part 2)


Radical Moderate said...

Brilliant, whats funny about Mr Williams is that in his zeal and hatred of the One True Living God, he attacks his own false god.

He actually said a few times in the comment section that his god would never order him or other people to kill their own children. When I pointed out that allah claims to have done just that with Abraham his response was quiet humorous.

Samuel Green said...

Here is an interesting hadith on this matter:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "If Allah sends punishment upon a nation then it befalls upon the whole population indiscriminately and then they will be resurrected (and judged) according to their deeds. " Bukhari: Volume 9, Book 88, Number 224:

minoria said...

Wow,I had read that Koranic passage many times and that argument never occurred to me.

1.Paul Williams and other Muslim debaters will just have to say they were wrong.But they never will.

2.So I can't really accept the Muslim Debate Initiative's claim that it is interested in truth as serious.

And they are la creme de la creme of Muslim debaters in any language,even better than Shabir Ally.They are not afraid to debate polemical subjects,Shabir Ally doesn't.

Radical Moderate said...

Great Hadeeth Samuel Green.

Does anyone know if the Quran explicitly forbids the killing of babies. The only verse I see Muslims rely on just simply says "Do not transgress the limits".

But if their god does not explicitly set those limits then it is left up the his creatures to determine what those limits are.

Zack_Tiang said...

I thought Noah's flood was enough to prove the point. haha..
Or was it because the Quran puts the flood at the time of Moses and the Pharaoh of Egypt...

Anthony Rogers said...


Thanks for the heads up on the hadith. I have a slew of verses and other examples that I held back on to keep the video short and also to use in a potential follow-up video if Paul (or another Muslim) chooses to make a reply.


I think the flood account is relevant, but Muslims will pretend that what is problematic in a passage like 1 Samuel 15 is that God is using secondary agents to carry out His wrath rather than doing it directly as in the case of the flood. Although I don't think the distinction between God doing something directly or through the use of means is a morally relevant one in relation to this issue, as if one can say that it is okay for God to do the former but not the latter, nevertheless the example I provided (which is just one of many) heads off this argument at the pass by showing that Allah himself is supposed to have said that he used the Babylonians and the Romans to do the very thing to Israel that God in the Bible is said to have done when using the Israelites against the Amalekites.


There are statements in the hadith (not the Qur'an) that say not to kill children, but there are examples in the Qur'an (such as the one I gave) that show Allah and his servants happily departing from this injunction.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Anthony

What about this hadith! It seems clear to me that Muslims can kill children if they believe that the child will not become Muslim.

The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used not to kill the children, so thou shouldst not kill them unless you could know what Khadir had known about the child he killed, or you could distinguish between a child who would grow up to he a believer (and a child who would grow up to be a non-believer), so that you killed the (prospective) non-believer and left the (prospective) believer aside. (Sahih Muslim 4457)

And this.

It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: “They are from them.” (Sahih Muslim 4322, see also Bukhari 52:256)