Friday, July 20, 2012

Pat Condell: American Dhimmi

Pat Condell posted a new video condemning President Obama's cowardice in the face of widespread persecution of Christians in the Middle East:



Sami Zaatari posted a response video:

21 comments:

Nabeel Qureshi said...

There we have it. Sami likes nail polish.

David said...

Yes Sami, we understand Pat hates us Christians, and yes, Pat should speak out against non-muslim agression/persecution of christians. However, this doesnt nullify his argument. Muslims do persecute christians in numerous muslim countries, and it is done by muslims. Respond to that as your first priority.

Baron Eddie said...

I really can not stand listening to Sami Zaatari's silliness ...

Pat Condell mentioned "I am no fan of Christianity, but a fan of civilization and justice"

Which part of that you did not understand?

Now get to the issue that he talked about ...

Christians are persecuted in all Islamic countries
and not only in Syria ...

The media is filtering these news out ...

The media is a disgrace and coward.

Now, let me tell you why I can not listen to Sami's silly talk

Anyone can deliver talk and talk and more nonsense talk, BUT

what is happening in Islamic countries to non-Muslims and specifically Christians tells another story ...

Girls get kidnapped
Forceful conversion to Islam
Beheading people
Robbing people their houses
intimidation, reviling, threats
stabbing people
burning people
raping women and girls
robing dead bodies and their graves and the frame for their pictures and names
forcing non-Muslim to cover up with hijab

forgive me if I forgot to list anything else!

This is happening every day in different places ...

Whatever Pat Condell believes (he is free to make his choice)
I still respect his choice but what he is saying about Islam is right ...

tiwas said...

Sami said, "reality is the greatest rebuttal".

And the reality is, Christians ARE being persecuted in the Islamic country.

And the reality is, these persecutions happen because the Quran teaches them (persecuting non-Muslim).

Sami, please, look at the reality.

TPaul said...

Sami's got a point though .... Pat insults Christians as being idiots and of lesser intelligence, in the same sentence as his concern about them being persecuted... really?

southwood said...

Pat Condell states the obvious but he is a liability. Atheists like him are doing as much damage as Muslims.

Haecceitas said...

"Pat insults Christians as being idiots and of lesser intelligence, in the same sentence as his concern about them being persecuted... really?"

His insults do not accurately reflect the reality of course, but even if they did, I don't think there's any contradiction in his position. One can care about the human rights of less than intelligent people.

mikeyh428 said...

So it took the US/Europe centuries to work out their civil rights issues? Well, at least they DID work out their civil rights issues. Islamic countries have had 1400 years to solve the problem and still are nowhere near "working it out." In fact things seem to be getting much worse of late. So much for the "perfect religion." Interestingly, Sami ignores attacks by Muslims against non-muslims in the UK and blows the EDL's actions, which are mostly vocal, out of proportion.

Regarding Obama, I think Pat's comments are right on the mark. A lot of people are feeling that way, but its nice to see someone put it so well and succinctly.

eagle said...

Wow Sami Zaatari, your speech is full of deception and I will expose some of them.

eagle said...

Pat hates Christianity but defending the righs of Christians. So what? He was clear He cares about Justic and human rights. and christians are human and he cares about their rights. Why are U bothered you werw supposed to join him in criticizing your co-relionists for persecuting thier christians neighbours, and the native people of thier land.

andy bell said...

No, they freely voted for a government that DOESN'T believe in freedom. If you have democracy, and then vote in a government that doesn't allow democracy....then NO. You're not free. The MB is a wahabi theocracy.

Dave, why do you waste time with this schmuck? Seriously, Sami is not a bright guy...but you keep propping him up as some great champion of muslim rebuttal?

Just look at that sullen, angry mug of his.....

geesh.

JMoses said...

Sami compares the history of minorities in the US and Europe with those in the Islamic world. While there are a few similarities, Sam should qualify this argument by acknowledging that Islam spread over many areas that were largely populated by Christians. Of course many Christians survived but how many millions were forced to convert or pay tribute or face death? By pointing to the survival of pockets of Christians, Sami is deflecting from the real historic genocide that has occurred slowly and gradually over the past 1400 years. Islam does not incorporate minorities into a society to help them survive but rather to gradually destroy them by means of Sharia law and persecution. The fact that pockets of Christianity survived has little or nothing to do with Islamic tolerance, but rather with God's grace, and human resiliency. Nevertheless, Sam has to ignore the reality of history in order to deny the systematic destruction of Christianity from the Middle East. Sam's argument reminds me of the right wing extremist propaganda that often downplays the genocide of Native Americans by falsely claiming that "there are more Native Americans today than when Columbus arrived" Such remarks are the trademark of an ignorant, racist and blind heart. Sami similarly goes along with the same kind of reasoning- "the Christians in Egypt are now able to vote"- As if the Arab spring has liberated the Christian people. Sami please go to persecuted.org and read for a few hours so you can really get liberated from blindness. And may Pat get liberated too- they both need Christ. Love in Christ. May the Lord Jesus Christ return soon.

blessed z said...

Yesterday I wished all my Muslim friends A fullfilling ramadhan month. Many of them actually never bother to wish me merry Christmas. I feel like a dhimmi.

Gregory said...

I don't like listening to this guy, or looking at him. He is an ignor-anus. Practicing taqiyya as hard as he can he runs interference for islam.

Unknown said...

I am from India. And we have been christians for centuries. My family is still in India. We don't have any persecution in India. Christian population in India is just 2.5% and we openly worship without much disturbance unlike pakistan, saudi arabia, oman and the list goes on...... There are and were few instances of trouble but cannot be considered it as same in muslims countries like pakistan, etc. Hindus don't force us to fast or to observe there traditions. we can openly proclaim our faith and can have our own place of worship.

Respect Ramadan Fast or be Expelled, Saudi Arabia Warns Non-Muslims

http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_disp.asp?n_id=144534

Radical Moderate said...

WOW.

So I got done listing to Pat Condells rant. And I have to strongly disagree with this Britt.

The United States does not have any duty besides its duty to American citizens.

Now as far as Sammy is concerned.

I don't care if Pat Condell loves or hates Christians. What I do care about is Christians being persecuted anywhere any time any place. So yes its just as wrong when Hindus do it, when anti Missionary Zionist Israeli Jews do it, when Budist do it when anyone does it.

Sammmi listing to your rant it reminds me of southen segregationsists.

"The Negro's are happy... look at them there singing and dancing... they like it this way... If we wanted to blow up all their churches then why are there so many Negro Churches... Some Negro's love the south so much moved here from other places in the south, we got rich negro's here..."

Or Nazi' concentration camp officials at Theresinestadt when the red cross came for inspections.

"Look the Jews are happy here, they have clean clothes, and plenty to eat... Look at them playing music"

Your appeal to "democracy" that some how we need to like or support a government elected by the people even though they are against everything that we in the west believe in is laughable.

Also although I disagree with Pat Condell on quite a few points, he is right. Muslims seem to have two options when it comes to government.

1. A ruthless greedy dictator. (Saddam Husein, Mubarrark, The Shaw of Iran, Bashir Asad, Momar Kadaffi , Yasir Arafat etc...

or

2. A ruthless theocratic regime. The Mullahs in Iran, Hamas, The Saudi Royal Family via (the Religious Police and Courts), Hezbollah in Lebanon, and now the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

A few things I find interesting
about the Egyptian uprising. Is that those that had been working on it, those that time and time again where arrested, those that traveled to Europe for non violent training, those that held workshops on these techniques. These same people now say their revolution has been hijacked, taken over by the Religious Extremist.

Another thing I find interesting is that the Muslim brother hood are the moderates of the extreamists. The Al Nour Party wants to impliment sharia right away.

The MB says "Oh no don't worry we will not implement sharia law right away it will take 5 to ten years before we persecute you so don't worry now."

So there a vote for us now and we will persecute you later political party.

Your appeal to the backwardness of Muslims is a non starter. Muslims have had 1400 years to get it right and now you want another two or three hundred years to catch up to the Kuffar?

All in all no matter what happens in Muslim Countries, one thing is for sure there will be no Freedom of speech, no true womans rights, no true rights and protection of religious minorities and Muslims will suffer as well.

And when this all goes horribly wrong like it will, the people will cry for more Islam, as if more of the poison that is killing them is a cure for the self inflicted disease they carry.

It is my opinion that the church needs to prepare for an exodus of Christians. We need to start thinking about leaving that God forsaken place to the God Forsaken Muslims.

crujjy said...

Pat's clearly never investigated the wealth of evidence for the Resurrection of our Christ if he thinks that about Christianity. Still, everything else was so completely true, and delivered with passion(and vitriol) and needed to be said! We have got to go public about these atrocities

Richard said...

Sami Zaatari here are the answers to your questions:

1. Why is Pat Condell defending Christians in the Middle East? Answer because they are being killed and persecuted.

2. Why is he defending Christians when he attacks Christianity? Answer because Christians are being killed and persecuted.

3. Why are Christians still existing in the Middle East if Muslims wanted to destroy them? Answer for the same reason that Jews still exist in Europe despite centuries of pogroms and the holocaust. They exist because some cling to their faith in the face of persecution and some have survived. There have been periods where there has been "relative" freedom from oppression but these are not the times where this is so.

Millions of Christians were slaughtered in Turkey, Armenians, Greeks, Turkomens. Christians formed 20% of the population of Turkey less than a century ago - today 99% are Muslims. It is the same in every Muslim country.

4. Why are there still churches in Muslim countries? Answer because many of these were Christian countries before the Muslim conquests, Turkey, Syria, Palestine, Egypt, North Africa. There are much less Churches than before. The most sacred Church of Christendom next to the Vatican was the Hagia Sophia - converted into a Mosque. Any Church that falls down in Egypt cannot be repaired and ceases to be a Church. You are not allowed to build a church in Saudi Arabia. Not so mosques in the west.

Radical Moderate said...

Anyone tried to post a comment on the MDI website since they kicked Paul Williams the Comment Nazi to the curb?

goethechosemercy said...

As an atheist, and I've written this elsewhere, Condell labors under a terrible disadvantage concerning Islam.
He can go after the effects of Sharia law, he can go after what Muslims do in the name of their faith, but he cannot attack the core theology, he cannot view Islam on the continuum of sacred versus profane.
As such, he has all the will to resist, but none of the most powerful weapons to resist with.
As I've written elsewhere, it is only people of other religions, and those particularly of the Abrahamic religions that Islam claims a relationship to, who can stick the knife right into the heart of Islam and discredit the Ulema and Ummah utterly.
We must make it clear every single day-- the Quran is holy . . . only to Muslims.
It is not holy to anyone else, and it is, in fact, particularly profane to Christians and Jews.

Traeh said...

What was Sami talking about? Condell's video was not inconsistent. As others have pointed out, there is nothing inconsistent in supporting basic human rights of Christians, while disliking Christianity. Besides, Condell, even with his dislike of Christianity, recognizes that from a civilizational and human rights standpoint, it is far superior to totalitarian Islam. Bernard Lewis, the famous historian of Islam and the Middle East, long ago explained that Islam is inherently totalitarian:

From the essay "Communism and Islam" in International Affairs, Vol. 30, No. 1 (Jan., 1954), pp. 1-12:

"I turn now from the accidental to the essential factors, to those deriving from the very nature of Islamic society, tradition, and thought. The first of these is the authoritarianism, perhaps we may even say the totalitarianism, of the Islamic political tradition...Many attempts have been made to show that Islam and democracy are identical -- attempts usually based on a misunderstanding of Islam or democracy or both...In point of fact, except for the early caliphate, when the anarchic individualism of tribal Arabia was still effective, the political history of Islam is one of almost unrelieved autocracy...[I]t was authoritarian, often arbitrary, sometimes tyrannical. There are no parliaments or representative assemblies of any kind, no councils or communes, no chambers of nobility or estates, no municipalities in the history of Islam; nothing but the sovereign power, to which the subject owed complete and unwavering obedience as a religious duty imposed by the Holy Law. In the great days of classical Islam this duty was only owed to the lawfully appointed caliph, as God's vicegerent on earth and head of the theocratic community, and then only for as long as he upheld the law; but with the decline of the caliphate and the growth of military dictatorship, Muslim jurists and theologians accommodated their teachings to the changed situation and extended the religious duty of obedience to any effective authority, however impious, however barbarous. For the last thousand years, the political thinking of Islam has been dominated by such maxims as 'tyranny is better than anarchy'
and 'whose power is established, obedience to him is incumbent.' ...Quite obviously, the Ulama of Islam are very different from the Communist Party. Nevertheless, on closer examination, we find certain uncomfortable resemblances. Both groups profess a totalitarian doctrine, with complete and final answers to all questions on heaven and earth; the answers are different in every respect, alike only in their finality and completeness, and in the contrast they offer with the eternal questioning of Western man. Both groups offer to their members and followers the agreeable sensation of belonging to a community of believers, who are always right, as against an outer world of unbelievers, who are always wrong. Both offer an exhilarating feeling of mission, of purpose, of being engaged in a collective adventure to accelerate the historically inevitable victory of the true faith over the infidel evil-doers. The traditional Islamic division of the world into the House of Islam and the House of War, two necessarily opposed groups, of which- the first has the collective obligation of perpetual struggle against the second, also has obvious parallels in the Communist view of world affairs. There again, the content of belief is utterly different, but the aggressive fanaticism of the believer is the same. The humorist who summed up the Communist creed as "There is no God and Karl Marx is his Prophet!" was laying his finger on a real affinity. The call to a Communist Jihad, a Holy War for the faith -- a new faith, but against the self-same Western Christian enemy -- might well strike a responsive note."


[End of Bernard Lewis quote]