(1) America sends millions of dollars to fund a massive hospital in Afghanistan. (2) Corrupt Afghan leaders and workers hoard the funds and supplies for themselves. (3) Patients who can't afford to pay bribe money are denied treatment and left to starve, wallowing in their own filth. (4) U.S. military leaders conceal the evidence to protect Obama.
In other words, your tax dollars are being sent to some truly reprehensible people, and even more reprehensible people are keeping it a secret.
75 comments:
What a bunch of (bleep). Pardon my language.
it's simple if you do it right the first time then you have nothing to worry about.
These people sit around all day with their(bleeeeeeeeeep) doing completely nothing while their pockets get fat.
Horrendous.
Mr. Obama has made himself king via Executive Orders, giving himself martial law and war powers, taken control of all communications, and signed a treaty with the United Nations to disarm U.S, citizens. He is unlikely to give up power. We need demand that Congress impeach him. http://www.petition2congress.com/6519/impeach-mr-obama/
this is what happens with an administration that plays politics,When soldiers feel that their military careers are tied to a politician every one suffers.These officers if found to be playing politics need to be drummed out of the Army
Its all Allahs will, he has ordained the corruption. Remember Allah has rightly guided the faithful.
@ David Wood, how much money do you need to finish your books? You talked about them a while ago. Every time you speak up, people listen, and every time you ask for money, we've been willing to help. Once this little incident becomes common knowledge, people will be open to reinvestigating Islam, and you need to be ready to show them this.
Thank you America for the generous hospital! America doesn't have to be the enemy of the Muslims! All America has to do is wake up, and put the feces that is controlling it and stinking it where they belong, and then, and ONLY THEN, the American people will easily find themselves at peace with everyone. I am going to quote something out of the Bible, and I think you'll know who I am talking about:
Isaiah 59
Contemporary English Version (CEV)
Social Injustice Is Condemned
59 The Lord hasn’t lost
his powerful strength;
he can still hear
and answer prayers.
2 Your sins are the roadblock
between you and your God.
That’s why he doesn’t answer
your prayers
or let you see his face.
3 Your talk is filled with lies
and plans for violence;
every finger on your hands
is covered with blood.
4 You falsely accuse others
and tell lies in court;
sin and trouble are the names
of your children.
5 You eat the deadly eggs
of poisonous snakes,
and more snakes crawl out
from the eggs left to hatch.
You weave spider webs,
6 but you can’t make clothes
with those webs
or hide behind them.
You’re sinful and brutal.
7 You hurry off to do wrong
or murder innocent victims.
All you think about is sin;
you leave ruin and destruction
wherever you go.
8 YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO LIVE IN PEACE
or to be fair with others.
The roads you make are crooked;
your followers cannot find peace.
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
And if your answer is something like this:
Osama, do you honestly believe that we, the Americans, can have peace with the Talibans?
RESPONSE:
The talibans do not represent the Muslims. Countries like the UAE (with its Dubai and Abu Dhabi), and the mentality that they live in represent the overwhelming majority of the Muslims.
1- Libya today chose a liberal party, and not an Islamic conservative one to rule it.
2- Egypt's Mursi chose his vice president to be a COPTIC WOMAN; A Christian woman.
So please, look at these Muslims. Not the Talibans who hardly even represent themselves, and they don't even represent 1% of the Muslims out there. And by the way, we also have great countries like Malaysia and others that are modern and very very peaceful with everyone.
Besides, I think the sad events that happened lately from Norway and the Colorado massacures, I think you'll have a far far greater chance getting killed by someone who looks a European White than one who looks Middle Eastern. It's saddens me to admit that I felt a little relief when the Colorado massacure happened because it happened by a white guy. It kind of lifted the prejudice against us, Muslims, a little. And as a Muslim, I am commanded by Allah Almighty to be Just and Fair and Friendly with everyone:
"Allah forbids you not, With regard to those who Fight you not for (your) Faith Nor drive you out Of your homes, From dealing kindly and justly With them: For Allah loveth Those who are just. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"
There are many Noble Verses like this. These Noble Verses came down to fix the MUSLIM BULLIES. Allah Almighty forbade them from bullying peaceful disbelievers and to be unjust and unfriendly with them.
This is my Islam that I stand firmly by.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
hey Osama I highly doubt those verses are taking about America.
Dont be so nutty.
yea Osama but then somewhere else it says to fight the unbelievers. your book is filled with contradictions, insanity etc.
So Osama why won't you and Samatar admit that your silly religion is inherently violent?
Osama Said,
"It's saddens me to admit that I felt a little relief when the Colorado massacure happened because it happened by a white guy. It kind of lifted the prejudice against us, Muslims, a little."
Ahaa, This may aid investigators in their crime investigation.
@ OSama
speaking of lies you said NASA supported you on 90 feet Adam right? well IT so happened that i did take it up with NASA and it seems that you are the one who is lying look up the link i posted up from NASA in the previous post where you made the claim. you have messed up big time by breaking
1- NEWTOn's law of universal gravitation
2-NEWton's second law of motion
here is another link from them and go to "The Formula for the Force of Gravity"
http://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/stargaze/Sgravity.htm
Osama you lose and I was right the numbers are against you.
From Osama abdullah
3 Your talk is filled with lies
and plans for violence;
every finger on your hands
is covered with blood.
4 You falsely accuse others
and tell lies in court;
sin and trouble are the names
of your children.
5 You eat the deadly eggs
of poisonous snakes,
and more snakes crawl out
from the eggs left to hatch.
You weave spider webs,
6 but you can’t make clothes
with those webs
or hide behind them.
You’re sinful and brutal.
7 You hurry off to do wrong
or murder innocent victims.
All you think about is sin;
you leave ruin and destruction
wherever you go.
8 YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO LIVE IN PEACE
or to be fair with others.
The roads you make are crooked;
your followers cannot find peace.
Sounds like the middle east to me? anyone else?
Who here in their right mind would want to live in the middle east?
Anyone.....?
Look at the UAE and dubai. European or western engineers were responsible for the designs and engineering in all modern islamic cities. Then The muslims use slave labour migrants from pakistan and india whenever they can con and deceive poor people with promises of decent wages and conditions and confiscate their passports and hold them in overcrowded slums.
Osama No one in the west is impressed with anything that the middle east has to offer, which is mainly only oil at anyrate. the refineries are more western designed and manufactured plants
You keep digging deeper and deeper don't you? must be pretty dark down there Osama?!?!
OSAMA all the wests news networks have covered the UAE's cities built on the back of slave labour.
Who are you trying to fool?
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2006/11/dark_side_of_du/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUW9MWLIQYw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPGc8CxoGgM
Osama you are an ANTICHRIST AND TOTAL "hypocrite" Keep you fascist dictator SATANIC slave shia sunni Isalm and sharia to your self. We don't want a bar of it.
Posting these exaples as they were the first to pop up in google.
Fact OSAMA
http://news.sky.com/story/573476/slave-labour-in-dubais-building-boom
Quote 'We need slaves to build monuments'
It is already home to the world's glitziest buildings, man-made islands and mega-malls - now Dubai plans to build the tallest tower. But behind the dizzying construction boom is an army of migrant labourers lured into a life of squalor and exploitation. Ghaith Abdul-Ahad reports
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/08/middleeast.construction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUW9MWLIQYw
David you should do a frontpage article on this: Muslim woman who's tired of muslim girls being raped and wants an alternative.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7Sc2uoJ5f8
'Muslim woman who's tired of muslim girls being raped and wants an alternative.'
apostasy?
Osama
You are practicing Islam incorrectly. Read what your scholars say. And go back to the other postings and see my clear rebuttals to your nonsense on the second page. Others are waiting as well. Now are you a better scholar than the two Jalalayns?
* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ لاَّ يَنْهَاكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي ٱلدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُمْ مِّن دِيَارِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوۤاْ إِلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يُحِبُّ ٱلْمُقْسِطِينَ }
God does not forbid you in regard to those who did not wage war against you, from among the disbelievers, on account of religion and did not expel you from your homes, that you should treat them kindly (an tabarrūhum is an inclusive substitution for alladhīna, ‘those who’) and deal with them justly: this was [revealed] before the command to struggle against them. Assuredly God loves the just.
Tafsir al-Jalalayn, trans. Feras Hamza
© 2012 Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Amman, Jordan
So as you can see this ayat was abrogated by the later ones that command Muslims to fight, subjugate or slaughter all non Muslims for all time.
You live a lie and you spew lies!
http://frontpagemag.com/2011/raymond-ibrahim/muslim-woman-seeks-to-revitalize-the-institution-of-sex-slavery/
If sheiks and muftis and wait even mohammed said it's ok. Then it must be ok. right....?
From the first time the devil strangled and thottled mohammered when he thought it was a demon not an angel and was going to commit suicide by throwing himself of a mountain, well he should have followed his first instinct.
Look at the evil mans legacy.
@ Osama,
“The talibans do not represent the Muslims…..” 1- Libya today chose a liberal party, and not an Islamic conservative one to rule it. 2- Egypt's Mursi chose his vice president to be a COPTIC WOMAN; A Christian woman.”
So my question to you is, if Taliban are not moslems and do not represent moslems, then why is it that these less then 1% people are causing such a havoc in a 90 some percent moslem country. How are they able to squash Allah and his people and have prevented moslems to implement sharia. Per you, we have seen the same thing in Libya and Egypt.
Allah has not helped his people in 1400 years to implement sharia in one moslem country. The reason for this is that even moslmes know the darkness behind sharia and how it oppresses human rights. If according to you Afghanistan, Libya and Egypt are not following sharia then GOOD FOR THEM.
"So as you can see this ayat was abrogated by the later ones that command Muslims to fight, subjugate or slaughter all non Muslims for all time.
You live a lie and you spew lies!"
RESPONSE:
First of all, no two Muslim "scholars" agree on the amount of the Noble Verses that were "abrogated" (notice the double quotes here), nor on what Noble Verses supposedly abrogated what Noble Verses. This is a fact, and I challenge you to dispute it.
Allah Almighty's Holy Words in the Holy Quran are 100% applicable for all times and all places. The lie of abrogation that was born from ignorance has no place in Islam. It was the previous Laws that the Holy Quran's Laws came to abrogate. Muslims don't have to follow the Jewish Law.
Also, the so-called "abrogation" is no more than applying certain Noble Verses to certain situations. So in the times of war, we have Laws of War (good treatment of captives is part of them). And in the times of peace, we have Laws for Peace. In either way, those who do not wage wars on us and do choose to remain at peace with us must get the Justice and Kindness from us:
"Allah forbids you not, With regard to those who Fight you not for (your) Faith Nor drive you out Of your homes, From dealing kindly and justly With them: For Allah loveth Those who are just. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"
And even in your writings above, no where does it say that Noble Verse 60:8 doesn't apply today.
I know you're filled with hate towards Islam. You're too blinded with hate against GOD Almighty. Islam came to fix your crooked and corrupt man-made faith and to set you straight. I am very very certain that deep inside your heart you know that your faith is not geniune. You can't! You couldn't! It's just far too corrupted with man's alterations and fabrications. So what you're left with is envy and hate towards Islam.
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
"So as you can see this ayat was abrogated by the later ones that command Muslims to fight, subjugate or slaughter all non Muslims for all time."
RESPONSE:
I missed this nonsense of yours in my previous reply. Show me where the Holy Quran Commands the slaughter of "all non Muslims for all time." If you're not a liar, then produce your proof.
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
Osama, could you please reply to the latest post in the "expanding earth" thread? Maybe you didnt recognize, but there are some posts you seem to be ignoring. There is already a second page (after post 200), maybe you just havent found the button to look at the second page.
To make it short, maybe just answer this question:
With what starting point are you going on your expanding earth theory -
1. the earth is expanding by gaining mass or
2. the earth always had the same mass, but is somehow expanding?
Although it would be very nice if you would read the complete posts in the other thread.
Thanks
@ Osama.
Denial is not a rebuttal. The Jalalayn tafsir clearly sight that 60:8 was abrogated after the command to fight against the non believers. So are you saying that Mhutta is still applicable? it is you who is filled with hate. Yes I hate evil Ideologies like Islam.
Just because you want to reinvent Islam and mold it into what you wish it were, or you want to lie to the kafre in order to woo us into a position of complacency until you can impose your evil system of fascism, and oppression on us, does not mean that it was not abrogated. Your greatest scholars concur with me, and disagree with you.
So we are all suppose to take your word that it wasnt abrogated, and dismiss Jalalayn? LOL! And then when you are in a position of power you can say, well, Jalalayn was correct. Is that how it works?
We see through your evil games Osama. Your the one who is commanded to hate, persecute, extort and slaughter us. Now the other way around.
(9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
It seems your pervert hypocrite monster of a false Prophet agreed with me as well.
Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah
Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."
Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."
Was Mohamed mistaken as well as Jalalayn? LOL! Your pathetic!
@Search 4 Truth
and Particulary Osama
See how wicked and vile the Devil and Mohammered is everyone?
For eg. me being a Chrisian, am confronted by a mob of angry muslim men who are on a rampage raping and pillaging PEOPLE of the book (Christians and Jews) and those not of the book all other religions and atheist's.
And they say come with us and rape and pillage and kill the non beleivers or DIE. And if you do we will reward you with your life here on earth and let you keep your house and work but you owe us a jizya for the rest of your life(slavery).
I WOULD RATHER you chop my head off OSAMA Christians, true belivers in Jesus will have eternal life in heaven and yours will be in hell. I will not accept ISLAM or the POPE. Jesus Christ is my saviour and its through his grace I will go to heaven, no one elses.
Osama surely does like to run away from the truth doesnt he, few posts back he was saying how glorious the Gulf states are, the UAE... blah blah and I point out some very real, sad and serious accusations, particulary UAE built on the back of slaves and even muslim women in kuwait wanting their husbands sons etc.. to have sex slaves or harems so they dont SIN and commit adultary or rape one of their own daughters. Your Culture IS SICK. Your a very sick man Osama trying to defend such a culture and behaviour.
(9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
It seems your pervert hypocrite monster of a false Prophet agreed with me as well.
Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah
Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."
Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."
@ Osama,
“It was the previous Laws that the Holy Quran's Laws came to abrogate. Muslims don't have to follow the Jewish Law.”
So are you telling us that Allah abrogated the ten commandments which states that, thou shall have no other God beside me, obey your parents, thou shall not kill, thou shall not lie, thou shall not murder and others.
But then you are going to say that Allah has told us not to lie or kill and all that stuff. Now think about this. How stupid of Allah to say that I abrogate thou shall not kill and lie and other commandments since I gave them to Israelites and now I give you the same commandments again.
On another point, according to your Quran, sura 5:32, ” For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.” According to you, this commandment then has been abrogated since it was given to the Jews. THEN WHY DOES ALL OF THE MOSLEM WORLD QUOTE THIS VERSE, ESPECIALLY AFTER 9/11, AS IF THIS IS WHAT ISLAM TEACHES? Would you agree that this is NOT what Islam teaches?
Additionally, as Search 4 Truth mentioned, then Mhutta is still applicable and you can rape female captives as the quran teaches?
It is you who has shown over and over again the hate that is rooted deep within your soul by spewing filth against the very societies you live in.
May God of the Bible have mercy on you.
@ Osama,
I just remembered that Allah did abrogate the Jewish law which states that thou shall not Lie (ninth commandment) and replaced it with Taqqiya. Then Allah abrogated the seventh commandment, "thou shall not commit adultery" with Sura 4:24 by legalizing adultery with your slave and captive girls, "And all married women (are forbidden? unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you."
But then again, this is Allah who abrogates his word. The God of the Bible never abrogates his word.
"@ Osama.
Denial is not a rebuttal. The Jalalayn tafsir clearly sight that 60:8 was abrogated after the command to fight against the non believers. So are you saying that Mhutta is still applicable? it is you who is filled with hate. Yes I hate evil Ideologies like Islam."
Again, when it comes to integrity and honesty, the christians usually take the back seat. As I clearly and indisputably showed above, nothing EVEN IN YOUR QUOTE ABOVE suggested abrogation. So you're the desperate deceiver here, not me.
"Just because you want to reinvent Islam and mold it into what you wish it were, or you want to lie to the kafre in order to woo us into a position of complacency until you can impose your evil system of fascism, and oppression on us, does not mean that it was not abrogated. Your greatest scholars concur with me, and disagree with you."
I do not want to reinvent Islam. Islam is solid and unchanged. It is your crooked religion of conjecture (as the Holy Quran calls it) that had been reinvented many many times and is still being reinvented. You don't even know what to believe anymore.
"So we are all suppose to take your word that it wasnt abrogated, and dismiss Jalalayn? LOL! And then when you are in a position of power you can say, well, Jalalayn was correct. Is that how it works?"
Again, nothing even in the quote that you provided above suggests abrogation. It is you who doesn't even know what the concept is. Also, many Islamic Scholars today clearly refute abrogation and have proven that it is an abrogation of the previous Jewish Law. But be as it may, even if we accept that there is actual abrogation in the Holy Quran to the Holy Quran, it is clear that it is ******Laws that were put to solve specific situation. So for war, there are Laws for War. And for peace, there are Laws for Peace, and so on.
"We see through your evil games Osama. Your the one who is commanded to hate, persecute, extort and slaughter us. Now the other way around.
(9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
It seems your pervert hypocrite monster of a false Prophet agreed with me as well."
I want everyone to see how this clown here is, again, the depserate liar. He earlier said that ************Islam commands the killed OF ALL DISBELIEVERS ALL THE TIME! His statement is in this thread. My challenge to him wasn't show me where the Holy Quran Commands the Muslims to fight for the Cause of Allah Almighty and for spreading His Divine Truth, Islam. My challenge to this clown was show me where the Holy Quran commands THE KILLING OF ALL DISBELIEVERS ALL THE TIME, as this clown claimed. He couldn't answer.
(continued)
"Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah
Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."
Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."
Was Mohamed mistaken as well as Jalalayn? LOL! Your pathetic!"
Again, this clown failed to show us where the Holy Quran Commands the killing of ALL DISBELIEVERS ALL THE TIME. Not only he miserably failed to produce his proof, but he also concealed the following Noble Verses that further expose him to be a liar:
[002:190] Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors.
[002:191] *******And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
[002:192] But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
[002:193] And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
So fight the hostile infidels until you either win the battle, or they surrender, or you lose the battle. And if they surrender, then don't fight them, nor mistreat them:
********************
[076:008] And they feed, for the love of God, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive,-
***********************
So again, if you are not indeed a desperate liar here, then I renew my challenge to you:
Show me where the Holy Quran Commands the Muslims to slaughter all disbelievers all the time as you declared above.
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
@ Osama How does it not suggest abrogation? Just because you say it doesnt does not mean it doesnt. Integrity is a the complete opposite for a Muslim. You can add or dismiss whatever you want and make it up as you go along in order to defend or propagate Islam. You think if you just say something it becomes a fact. Jalalayn says, and I quote " this was [revealed] before the command to struggle against them."
That means the orders were changed. Are you in a mental institution Osama?
LOL! Nobody can tell me for sure what Islam is. You are not arguing with me now, you are arguing with Jalalayns who were two of the greatest scholars of Islam. Thats conjecture dummy. LOL!
Again making claims and the providing evidence are two different things. And Muslims cant seem to be sure what Islam and Mohamed cammands! Lets take a look! LOL! And what I said was that islam commands the subjugation of all No9n Muslims or the slaughter of all non Muslims! If I dont submit to the will of Muslims by converting to your death cult, or, by paying the jizya then the punishment is death! That is called compulsion!
Now read on and tell me how Islam is solid and unchanged!
Allah declares that without doubt, Muhammad is truly His Messenger,
(Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.) and this quality includes every beautiful description. Allah praises the Companions of the Messenger , may Allah be pleased with them all,
(And those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, merciful among themselves.) just as He, the Exalted and Most Honored, said in another Ayah,
(Allah will bring a people whom He will love and they will love Him; humble towards the believers, stern towards the disbelievers.)(5:54) This is the description of the believers; harsh with the disbelievers, merciful and kind to the believers, angry without smiling before the disbelievers, smiling and beaming with pleasure before his believing brother. Allah the Exalted said in another Ayah,
(O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you, and let them find harshness in you.) (9:123) The Prophet said,
(The parable of the believers in their kindness and mercy for each other, is that of the body: when one of its organs falls ill, the rest of the body responds with fever and sleeplessness.) The Prophet also said,
(A believer to another believer is like a building whose different parts enforce each other.)
Qualities of the Faithful Believers and Their Refinement
Tafsir Ibn Kathir
I went out with my father to Syria. The people passed by the cloisters in which there were Christians and began to salute them. My father said: Do not give them salutation first, for AbuHurayrah reported the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) as saying: Do not salute them (Jews and Christians) first, and when you meet them on the road, force them to go to the narrowest part of it.
Abu Dawud 41:5186 , See also: Sahih Muslim 26:5389, Sahih Muslim 26:5390
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah." Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik,
"O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?" He replied, "Whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have."
Sahih Bukhari 1:8:387, See also: Sahih Bukhari 1:2:24
* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ فَإِذَا ٱنسَلَخَ ٱلأَشْهُرُ ٱلْحُرُمُ فَٱقْتُلُواْ ٱلْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَٱحْصُرُوهُمْ وَٱقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ ٱلصَّلَٰوةَ وَءَاتَوُاْ ٱلزَّكَٰوةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ }
Then, when the sacred months have passed — that is, [at] the end of the period of deferment — slay the idolaters wherever you find them, be it during a lawful [period] or a sacred [one], and take them, captive, and confine them, to castles and forts, until they have no choice except [being put to] death or [acceptance of] Islam; and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush, [at every] route that they use (kulla, ‘every’, is in the accusative because a [preceding] genitive-taking preposition has been removed). But if they repent, of unbelief, and establish prayer and pay the alms, then leave their way free, and do not interfere with them. God is Forgiving, Merciful, to those who repent.
So we either accept Islam, be second class citizens, and extorted from, or we die.
What I said was absolutely 100% accurate. Your nonsense ramblings and excuses can be seen through from a mile away!
Again I said subjugation or slaughter. We convert, or accept submission and get extorted from and live under an apartheid like system, or we die.
The penalties that the Sharia has introduced for those who disobey God and his Messengers of two kinds: the punishment of those who are under the sway [of an imam], both individuals and collectivities, as has been mentioned before [in the chapter on criminal law], and, secondly, the punishment of recalcitrant groups, such as those that can only be brought under the sway of the Imam by a decisive fight. That then is the jihad against the unbelievers (kuffar), the enemies of God and His Messenger. For whoever has heard the summons of the Messenger of God, Peace be upon him, and has not responded to it must be fought, "until there is no Fitna and the religion of God's entirely" (K. 2:193, 8:39).[4]
Ibn Taymiyyah, ‘Governance According to Allaah’s Law in Reforming the Ruler and his Flock’
"Since lawful warfare is essentially Jihad and since its aim is that religion is entirely for Allah and the word of Allah is uppermost, therefore, according to all Muslims, those who stand in the way of this aim must be fought.[5]
Ibn Taymiyyah, ‘Governance According to Allaah’s Law in Reforming the Ruler and his Flock’
When the Prophet died and Abu Bakr became his successor and some of the Arabs reverted to disbelief, 'Umar said, "O Abu Bakr! How can you fight these people although Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, 'and whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', Allah will save his property and his life from me
Sahih Bukhari 9:84:59, See also: Sahih Bukhari 2:23:483
So as you can see this ayat was abrogated by the later ones that command Muslims to fight, subjugate or slaughter all non Muslims for all time.
You live a lie and you spew lies!
That was copied from above. It says subjugate OR slaughter. I will repeat it once again. We either convert to your evil, fascist, bigoted, misogynistic death cult, are subjugated, oppressed, and extorted from, or we die! You are the liar!
"SGM said...
@ Osama,
I just remembered that Allah did abrogate the Jewish law which states that thou shall not Lie (ninth commandment) and replaced it with Taqqiya."
RESPONSE:
Nice try cutie! Taqiyyah in Islam is permission to lie when one is in danger. If I have a gun on my head, then I am allowed to lie. If I know my words will cause unnecessary and unjust tumult and blood shed, then I can shut up and not tell the Truth, or fabricate a lie if I have to.
Taqiyyah is Righteous if one is Genuine with Allah Almighty. I try to be as honest as possible. I DON'T EVEN ALIAS MY NAME OTHER THAN "Osama Abdallah" on message boards. You and your buddies here, on the other hand, have multiple accounts. THAT'S LYING using your logic. You're conceiling something on purpose. Now I am not saying this is lying, or those who do it are liars.
The Bible is also filled with Taqiyyah. I've written an article about this. I've even showed how PAUL SAID THAT IF HE HAD TO BS PEOPLE JUST TO SPREAD THE TRUTH, THEN HE'LL DO IT. Of course, Paul wanted to be the ruling authority and he demanded from his followers to send all of their money to him. Read the book of Romans for more details.
My link is at: http://www.answering-christianity.com/lying.htm (THERE IS EVEN A SCIENTIFIC MIRACLE IN THIS ARTICLE. Seriously!)
http://www.answering-christianity.com/balanced_lies_rebuttal.htm
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
Hey Osama
Your still not practicing Islam correctly. You are not Allah or Mohamed.
* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ وَقَاتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلَّذِينَ يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ وَلاَ تَعْتَدُوۤاْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لاَ يُحِبُّ ٱلْمُعْتَدِينَ }
After the Prophet (s) was prevented from [visiting] the House in the year of the battle of Hudaybiyya, he made a pact with the disbelievers that he would be allowed to return the following year, at which time they would vacate Mecca for three days. Having prepared to depart for the Visitation [‘umra], [he and] the believers were concerned that Quraysh would not keep to the agreement and instigate fighting. The Muslims were averse to becoming engaged in fighting while in a state of pilgrimage inviolability in the Sacred Enclosure [al-haram] and during the sacred months, and so the following was revealed: And fight in the way of God, to elevate His religion, with those who fight against you, the disbelievers, but aggress not, against them by initiating the fighting; God loves not the aggressors, the ones that overstep the bounds which God has set for them: this stipulation was abrogated by the verse of barā’a, ‘immunity’ [Q. 9:1], or by His saying [below]:
IT WAS ABROGATED BY 9:1
Looks like Jallayan agrees with me as well. So where is this Islam that is so solid and unchanged. I cant seem to find it. Are you the only one who knows solid Islam? LOL!
Tafsir al-Jalalayn, trans. Feras Hamza
© 2012 Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Amman, Jordan (http://www.aalalbayt.org) ® All Rights Reserved
Search 4 Truth,
Again, Jalalyn didn't say abrogated, and couldn't dare to say it was abrogated. Plus, many of these big volumes were written by their students and students' students. And again, no two "scholars" agree on the amount of Noble Verses that were abrogated, and what Noble Verse abrogates what Noble Verse.
I am glad that you're a Syrian, since one of your countrymen, who is a rising Scholar, named Adnan Alrifa'ee and other modern-day scholars have come on TV and wiped the floor (in formal and professional debates) with those who tried to say that the Holy Quran abrogates Itself by the wholesale with facts. Adnan and others have showed and proved clearly that there are no abrogations in the Holy Quran. JALALYN CAN CLAIM WHATEVER THEY WANT. THEY'RE BOOKS ARE NOT THE QURAN, NOR ARE ALLAH ALMIGHTY, NOR IS HE THE PROPHET. ***************And again, they never said the Noble Verses that I gave were abrogated. A Law coming after a Law means that we now have a dynamic situation and not just a fixed one. That's all it means. No contradiction, no abrogation, no BS, no lies.
YOU SAID:
"And what I said was that islam commands the subjugation of all No9n Muslims or the slaughter of all non Muslims!"
RESPONSE:
You're now taking back your own words after I exposed you to be a liar. "...all non Muslims!" is an absolute statement that suggests that I can go and slaughter people (men, women and children) by the mass like what happened in Colorado and Norway. This is what the liars like you who go on FoxNOISE such as Robert Spencer and Pat Robertson and other criminals say about Islam. They make absolute statements that they know are false. When I simply challenged your absolute phony statement, it didn't take much for you to get exposed proven to be a liar. So I am glad that you're now put in your place, because it'll make the communication between us a bit easier. I WANT YOU TO COME BACK AND SAY THAT ISLAM DOESN'T PERMIT THE SLAUGHTER OF ALL NON MUSLIMS (men, women and children). If not, then tell us why. Your silence will prove that you're a phony liar.
Now, when Allah Almighty Commands the Muslims to treat with kindness and justice the disbelievers who are under them, and to feed the captives **********FOR THE LOVE OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY, then this proves the following:
1- Allah Almighty is a Loving GOD. Yes, a Loving GOD.
2- Allah Almighty is a Just and Kind GOD.
3- Allah Almighty's Commands about us being kind to our captives certainly disproves your claims, since after battle (all the Laws of battle have now been applied), the Muslims must come back to compassion and mercy. Yes, there is hoestility against paganism and disbelievers, but in the end, we must come back to mercy and compassion.
Can you refute this, Search 4 Truth?
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
And one more point that will CURSH your nonsense, Search4Truth is this:
In every battle that the Muslims have fought, the Prophet had always given the following commands:
1- Do not destroy or corrupt the land.
2- Do cut trees or kill animals for the sake of harm.
3- DO NOT KILL AN INNOCENT UNARMED PERSON, OR A SOLDIER WHO DROPS HIS WEAPON!
There is an incident where Khalid bin Walid killed a disbeliever who became unarmed during battle and was captured. The Prophet threw sand in Khalid's face and said his famous Saying:
"Allahumma inni baree'a min ma fa'ala Khalid"
"O Allah, I am innocent from what Khalid has done."
So don't come a tell me utter nonsense such as my Verses are not applicable today, Search4Truth.
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
@Osama:
why arent you replying to my question?
Tomorrow i will make a longer post about that topic, but it would be nice to know your exact opinion about this topic. So how is the earth behaving in your theory:
1. expanding by gaining mass
2. expanding, although the mass stays the same.
(3. you take back the claim of an expanding earth ... )
Thats a very simple question. I posted that question now a couple of times - you might havent read it the first or second time, but ignoring it again would seem to be ignoring it deliberately.
Hope to read your answer soon ;)
Osama are you blind? Or does Allah seal your eyes, ears and mind? Jalalayn DOES SAY ABROGATE! Go here everyone and see for yourself.
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=2&tAyahNo=190&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ وَقَاتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ ٱلَّذِينَ يُقَاتِلُونَكُمْ وَلاَ تَعْتَدُوۤاْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ لاَ يُحِبُّ ٱلْمُعْتَدِينَ }
After the Prophet (s) was prevented from [visiting] the House in the year of the battle of Hudaybiyya, he made a pact with the disbelievers that he would be allowed to return the following year, at which time they would vacate Mecca for three days. Having prepared to depart for the Visitation [‘umra], [he and] the believers were concerned that Quraysh would not keep to the agreement and instigate fighting. The Muslims were averse to becoming engaged in fighting while in a state of pilgrimage inviolability in the Sacred Enclosure [al-haram] and during the sacred months, and so the following was revealed: And fight in the way of God, to elevate His religion, with those who fight against you, the disbelievers, but aggress not, against them by initiating the fighting; God loves not the aggressors, the ones that overstep the bounds which God has set for them: this stipulation was abrogated by the verse of barā’a, ‘immunity’ [Q. 9:1], or by His saying [below]:
Tafsir al-Jalalayn, trans. Feras Hamza
© 2012 Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Amman, Jordan (http://www.aalalbayt.org) ® All Rights Reserved\
DENIAL OF REALITY IS NOT A REBUTTAL!
So now you admit that Islam is not solid and consistant. If no two scholars can agree on anything then how can you claim it to be solid? LOL! You just contradict yourself constantly!
Quote " And again, no two "scholars" agree on the amount of Noble Verses that were abrogated, and what Noble Verse abrogates what Noble Verse."
So nobody knows how to follow Islam according to you. You just said it! LOL! Your the perfect example of what Islam does to the mind and integrity of people!
No Osama. I reprinted the exact words i said. Now this will be the third time I am going to repost the same thing. EVERYONE can see you are the liar! Go up and read it liar!
So as you can see this ayat was abrogated by the later ones that command Muslims to fight, subjugate or slaughter all non Muslims for all time.
You live a lie and you spew lies!
July 28, 2012 11:29 AM
You are exposed AGAIN! Everyone can see what i said. Whats wrong with you?
ISLAM COMMANDS ALL MUSLIMS FOR ALL TIME TO SUBJUGATE OR SLAUGHTER ALL NON MUSLIMS FOR ALL TIME! That is an absolute FACT!
Like I proved many times over. If we do not submit to Islam, convert, or accept second class, apartheid like status, then you can kill us! I proved it! And yes you can kill a non Muslim child if you think he will grow up to be a non Muslim!
The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used not to kill the children, so thou shouldst not kill them unless you could know what Khadir had known about the child he killed, or you could distinguish between a child who would grow up to he a believer (and a child who would grow up to be a non-believer), so that you killed the (prospective) non-believer and left the (prospective) believer aside. (Sahih Muslim 4457)
See where it says OR you could distinguish between a child that would grow up to be a non Muslim, and a child that would be a Muslim.
That "OR" is a qualifier. It gives you the right to make that distinction!
You have been exposed as a liar, and you contradict yourself.
You cannot say Islam is clear, and then in the next breath say that no scholar can agree on what is abrogated and what is not. Especially when earlier you said, Quote". The lie of abrogation that was born from ignorance has no place in Islam."
Now your saying there is abrogation but nobody is sure what is and isnt. So Islam is not clear. Thank you. This is why you are one of the worst apologists for Islam, but great for the kafre.
Osama making claims and then providing evidence are two entirely different things! Here i will show you. LOL!
It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: “They are from them.” (Sahih Muslim 4322, see also Bukhari 52:256)
"The Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives" (Bukhari 46:717)
* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ فَإِذَا ٱنسَلَخَ ٱلأَشْهُرُ ٱلْحُرُمُ فَٱقْتُلُواْ ٱلْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَٱحْصُرُوهُمْ وَٱقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ ٱلصَّلَٰوةَ وَءَاتَوُاْ ٱلزَّكَٰوةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ }
Then, when the sacred months have passed — that is, [at] the end of the period of deferment — slay the idolaters wherever you find them, be it during a lawful [period] or a sacred [one], and take them, captive, and confine them, to castles and forts, until they have no choice except [being put to] death or [acceptance of] Islam; and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush, [at every] route that they use (kulla, ‘every’, is in the accusative because a [preceding] genitive-taking preposition has been removed). But if they repent, of unbelief, and establish prayer and pay the alms, then leave their way free, and do not interfere with them. God is Forgiving, Merciful, to those who repent.
So take them captive, and imprison them. And if they accept Islam let them go. If they do not, MURDER THEM! See it dummy? It's clear for all to see.
YOUR DENIAL, DELUSIONS, AND ILLUSIONS, are not a rebuttal.
Did you notice he called critics of Islam like Robert Spencer "criminals"? It seems he thinks the law in Sharia should apply in the US/west, and they should be charged for critisizing Islam?
Samatar are you here? Maybe you should tell Osama that calling people criminals for critizing Islam is not very moderate!
@Osama: Why should we take anything you say about the bible seriously? You have COMPLETELY misrepresented the bible before (1 Cor 5:5, 12:9, Christianity promoting rape, drunk driving, wars etc.). Why should anyone take you seriously?
@ Foolster.
Everyone can see he has no integrity. He lies, misrepresents, slanders, demonizes,uses logical fallacies, and is completely inconsistent. This is exactly what happens to anyone who clings to the lie of Islam. You have to be void of critical thinking, objective reasoning, and intellectual integrity to be a Muslim and try and defend it and reinvent it. Now he will just move on as if nothing happened and he wasnt refuted. It's quite sad and pathetic!
Still no answer Osama?
Well - i promised to write a longer reply about the "expanding earth", but I realy would like to know where you stand within that theory.
Unfortunately I will have to delay the writing to about Sunday. Maybe you can answer till then! I realy would have liked to post it sooner and I am already half way done with the post, but I got a phonecall today and I have to leave now to help my family with some problems.
When the article is done, I hope people will see how bad your argumentation is.
"Like I proved many times over. If we do not submit to Islam, convert, or accept second class, apartheid like status, then you can kill us!"
I am not sure I agree with you on the "second class apartheid like status". The Jizyah that the infidels had to pay IN HUMILIATION was due to hostility. It was a punishment for them. This Law doesn't apply to all disbelievers, exactly as the Law of Apostatasy also doesn't apply to all of those who leave Islam. You're taking Statements out of our Holy Quran and you're making them absolute Statements that apply to everybody. This is where you're wrong.
"And yes you can kill a non Muslim child if you think he will grow up to be a non Muslim!
The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used not to kill the children, so thou shouldst not kill them unless you could know what Khadir had known about the child he killed, or you could distinguish between a child who would grow up to he a believer (and a child who would grow up to be a non-believer), so that you killed the (prospective) non-believer and left the (prospective) believer aside. (Sahih Muslim 4457)"
The hate that you're filled with had obviously blinded you to read the obvious. The Prophet of Islam NEVER KILLED ANY CHILD. His Saying said that we must never kill any child because we will never be like Prophet Khidir, peace be upon him, who killed one child because Allah Almighty Revealed to him that the child will put his parents through much hardship and he'll be an infidel. ************The Hadith that you quoted is an affirmation that we must never even think about killing children.
(continued)
"It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: “They are from them.” (Sahih Muslim 4322, see also Bukhari 52:256)
"The Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives" (Bukhari 46:717)"
Again, your hate is preventing you from seeing the simple text! The Muslims, being compassionate and considerate, approached the Prophet during battle saying that the women and children ARE GETTING TRAMPLED AND KILLED BECAUSE THEY WERE CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE. The Prophet said they are from them. This is very simple and I don't know why it is very difficult for you to see it. *************It is not saying that the Muslims can SINGLE OUT WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND SLAUGHTER THEM! I hope you're not that ridiculous. It simply says do not stop the battle because of them. We'll have to make it an exception, because they are INNOCENT ONES FROM THEM AND NOT FROM US.
(continued)
"* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ فَإِذَا ٱنسَلَخَ ٱلأَشْهُرُ ٱلْحُرُمُ فَٱقْتُلُواْ ٱلْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَٱحْصُرُوهُمْ وَٱقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ ٱلصَّلَٰوةَ وَءَاتَوُاْ ٱلزَّكَٰوةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ }
Then, when the sacred months have passed — that is, [at] the end of the period of deferment — slay the idolaters wherever you find them, be it during a lawful [period] or a sacred [one], and take them, captive, and confine them, to castles and forts, until they have no choice except [being put to] death or [acceptance of] Islam; and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush, [at every] route that they use (kulla, ‘every’, is in the accusative because a [preceding] genitive-taking preposition has been removed). But if they repent, of unbelief, and establish prayer and pay the alms, then leave their way free, and do not interfere with them. God is Forgiving, Merciful, to those who repent.
So take them captive, and imprison them. And if they accept Islam let them go. If they do not, MURDER THEM! See it dummy? It's clear for all to see."
Again, YOUR FAILING TO READ SIMPLE TEXT. The Noble Verse Says:
1- Fight the infidels and ambush them and do what is necessary to defeat them.
2- ***********A CAPTIVE WHO IS HELD BY YOU IS TO BE RELEASED IMMEDIATELY IF HE MEETS A CERTAIN CONDITION: EMBRACES ISLAM, PRAYS AND PAYS CHARITY TO THE POOR.
3- This Noble Verse doesn't say to kill the captives.
Mr. Search4Truth, you have still failed to answer my challenge to you above, which is this:
****************************
MY CHALLENGE TO SEARCH4TRUTH:
*******************************
As I have provided the Noble Verses above (WHICH BY THE WAY YOUR QUOTATIONS DIDN'T EVEN ADDRESS THEM NOR "ABROGATE" THEM), when Allah Almighty Commands the Muslims to treat with kindness and justice the disbelievers who are under them, and to feed the captives FOR THE LOVE OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY as the Holy Quran explicitly claims, then this proves the following:
1- Allah Almighty is a Loving GOD. Yes, a Loving GOD.
2- Allah Almighty is a Just and Kind GOD.
3- Allah Almighty's Commands about us being kind to our captives certainly disproves your claims, since after battle (all the Laws of battle have now been applied), the Muslims must come back to compassion and mercy. Yes, there is hoestility against paganism and disbelievers, but in the end, we must come back to mercy and compassion.
Can you refute this, Search 4 Truth?
Even in your quotes above, sir, the Prophet of Islam never killed a child, never ordered the killing of any child or innocent, nor did he torture captives, nor did he kill captives.
Again Mr. Search4Truth, can you honestly refute this!
Let me end this by telling you this. Islam is bigger than the hostile times that it grew in. Islam is big, very big on Mercy, Love and Compassion. Allah Almighty Commanded us to treat WITH KINDNESS AND JUSTICE the peaceful disbelievers. If your quotes showed some Muslim bullies, well my quotes showed that Allah Almighty rebuked them and fixed them.
So much for the "second-class status" nonsense.
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
" Foolster41 said...
Did you notice he called critics of Islam like Robert Spencer "criminals"? It seems he thinks the law in Sharia should apply in the US/west, and they should be charged for critisizing Islam?"
RESPONSE:
When one fabricates lies on Islam, or anything, then he becomes a sick deamon, especially when his words could harm millions. The Norway slaughter happened because of a sicko that listend to this quack and buffon, Robert toilet Spencer.
On a side note stupidster, your NT says that if a believer calls another believer a "fool", then he will be standing on the edge of Hell. So everytime any of your brothers even addresses you, you are making them fall into this sin, stupidster.
So I suggest you change your stupid name, and slap some integrity and honesty in you, because I never said that anyone who critisizes Islam is a criminal. Show me where I said that.
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
@ Osama Abdallah,
“Nice try cutie! Taqiyyah in Islam is permission to lie when one is in danger. If I have a gun on my head, then I am allowed to lie. If I know my words will cause unnecessary and unjust tumult and blood shed, then I can shut up and not tell the Truth, or fabricate a lie if I have to.”
Response:
So you admit that in Islam, Allah allows you to lie. Therefore, you are correct that Allah did abrogate the law which He gave to the Jews, e.g., in the Ten Commandment “Thou shall not lie”. Let me tell you something about the true and living God of the Bible. God is pure and holy. There is no evil in it, nor there can any evil exit in His presence. When God say, “thou shall not lie”, Satan says the opposite, “thou can lie”. Since lying is evil, therefore God can not say that you can lie nor He will ever permit His follower to lie.
What do we conclude? If Allah allows you to lie, then he can not be the true and living God. (Who decieves us to go against God's commandments? I think you are smart enough to figure it out.) We see this also in the case of adultery. God of the bible says, “Thou shall not commit adultery”. Satan says, you can. We find the same thing in Quran where Allah allows moslem men to commit adultery with what their right hand possess. Mohammad also allowed moslem men to commit adultery during war thru Mutta. You also have no problem with adultery by using your own daughter to be a sex slave for moslem men to resolve a social problem. So it is clear that Allah is not the true and living God of the Bible (which we know already). But now you have admitted by your own mouth. However, we know that you will try to sugar coat this or just ignore it.
More Noble Verses for Mr. Search4Truth:
[005:008] O ye who believe! stand out firmly for God, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear God. For God is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
So Mr. Search4Truth, if the Muslims have a problem or war with a group of people, this is NEVER AN EXCUSE TO DEAL UNJUSTLY WITH ANY OF THEIR COUNTRYMEN THAT ONE MIGHT RUN INTO.
[003:018] There is no god but He: That is the witness of God, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise.
I can provide you at least 20 more Noble Verses, Search4Truth. You have Islam ALL MISUNDERSTOOD my brother.
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
Furthermore,
By Allah Almighty's Holy Name I am not BSing or lying. If I were to stand before a human-judge, then I would feel far far far more comfortable standing before a Muslim judge than say a Pagan one, or even a Christian one, especially one that belongs to the modern-day hateful neo-cons and zionists. I know that a Muslim judge has higher probability of being fair and just with everyone.
Islam is big, VERY BIG, on justice. It is no joke in Islam. And the Prophet has many Sayings about how the people of knowledge and the leaders AND THE JUDGES will be the ones who will receive the most severe punishments.
I hope this helps.
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
"So you admit that in Islam, Allah allows you to lie. Therefore, you are correct that Allah did abrogate the law which He gave to the Jews, e.g., in the Ten Commandment “Thou shall not lie”. Let me tell you something about the true and living God of the Bible. God is pure and holy. There is no evil in it, nor there can any evil exit in His presence. When God say, “thou shall not lie”, Satan says the opposite, “thou can lie”. Since lying is evil, therefore God can not say that you can lie nor He will ever permit His follower to lie.
What do we conclude?"
RESPONSE:
Actually, the OT doesn't say "thou shalt not lie". This command was latter said in the first book of Corinthians 3,500 years after. The Command that you're looking for is:
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. (From the KJV Bible, Exodus 20:16)"
Visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran_ten_commandments.htm
As to what do we conclude? We conclude that you're here to spam and to waste time and text, by drowning the text with nonsense. I've already responded to your lies and said that Islam doesn't permit lying, unless one is under a threat. And It's 100% permitted in your Scriptures as well. So you have just insulted your own faith.
Furthermore, I've given you the proofs and quotes about Paul himself in the NT said that if he has to lie to people to draw them to faith, then he has no problem doing it. So Paul permitted lying to bring people to Christianity.
Read my references above before making fun of yourself.
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
Osama
Quote "I am not sure I agree with you on the "second class apartheid like status". The Jizyah that the infidels had to pay IN HUMILIATION was due to hostility. It was a punishment for them. This Law doesn't apply to all disbelievers, exactly as the Law of Apostatasy also doesn't apply to all of those who leave Islam. You're taking Statements out of our Holy Quran and you're making them absolute Statements that apply to everybody. This is where you're wrong."
Response - Provide evidence for your assertions.
Quote "The hate that you're filled with had obviously blinded you to read the obvious. The Prophet of Islam NEVER KILLED ANY CHILD. His Saying said that we must never kill any child because we will never be like Prophet Khidir, peace be upon him, who killed one child because Allah Almighty Revealed to him that the child will put his parents through much hardship and he'll be an infidel. ************The Hadith that you quoted is an affirmation that we must never even think about killing children."
False. They are directions on who till kill and who to leave aside! Like it says! Your delusional!
Response
so that you killed the (prospective) non-believer and left the (prospective) believer aside. (Sahih Muslim 4457)
LOL! it is saying to kill the non Muslim child, and leave the Muslim child alone! Your mind and soul is twisted by Islam!
@ Osama
You are a liar and have absolutely NO integrity at all! He said, "they are from them" Meaning do not be concerned with them. How you can try and think that you could get away this lie is beyond me! He is disregarding their safety because they are from them! You have NO integrity at ALL!
They are asking him about the children and Mohamed disregards their safety or lives by clearly saying, do not worry about them, they are from them! Thats bigotry and infanticide!
You are delusional!
@ Osama
Yes thats what I said. The criteria is accepting Islam, or DEATH!
"* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ فَإِذَا ٱنسَلَخَ ٱلأَشْهُرُ ٱلْحُرُمُ فَٱقْتُلُواْ ٱلْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَٱحْصُرُوهُمْ وَٱقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ ٱلصَّلَٰوةَ وَءَاتَوُاْ ٱلزَّكَٰوةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ }
Then, when the sacred months have passed — that is, [at] the end of the period of deferment — slay the idolaters wherever you find them, be it during a lawful [period] or a sacred [one], and take them, captive, and confine them, to castles and forts, until they have no choice except [being put to] death or [acceptance of] Islam;
Its as clear as the growing nose on your face!
ACCEPT ISLAM! OR DIE!
Response:
You can quote as many verses as you want regarding justice proving that Islam promote justice. And I won’t disagree with you that there are verses that calls for justice, but the main question here is, what is meant by “justice” in Islam.
Well, lets see. E.g., first, Allah in the quran allows moslem men to commit adultery with their female captives even while their husbands are still alive. It would be completely just for moslem men to do this according to the Quran and Allah. However, it is not just in the eyes of the rest of the world. Second, Allah tells moslems to subdue Christians and Jews till they pay jizzya and feel humiliated. For you moslems, it will be just and perfectly alright to do it while for the rest of the world it would be unjust, for the rest of the world respect human rights. Third, moslem men are allowed to beat their wives and it would be perfectly just for you to do it. However, for the rest of the world it would be violation of basic human rights which of course you won’t even understand. And there are numerous other things in the hadith and Sunna of your prophet which would annihilate justice compared to how the rest of the world means by justice.
You also state, Islam is big, VERY BIG, on justice. It is no joke in Islam. And the Prophet has many Sayings about how the people of knowledge and the leaders AND THE JUDGES will be the ones who will receive the most severe punishments.”
Response:
I come from a moslem country and I have not seen more corrupt judges then moslems. You are like an ostrich who has buried his head in the sand and is oblivious of what is around him. I don’t even want to comment on what you are thinking (or smoking). In addition, if we apply what I have mentioned above regarding justice, then from your prospective, you would consider a christian judge to be unjust since he will be accepting a woman’s testimony to be equivelant to that of a man. According to you a moslem judge would be a just judge to dismiss a case where a woman has to give a testimony because women’s testimony is considered half of a man because of their intellect deficiency. And no wonder you consider any non moslem judge to be unjust.
@ Osama
I have refuted it countless times. But Islam has destroyed your ability for simple reasoning.
First of all 60:* was abrogated by the later ayats of subjugation OR murder!
* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn 60:8
this was [revealed] before the command to struggle against them. Assuredly God loves the just.
Yes he did torture captives. And the hadith says that you should kill a child if you think he will grow up to be a non Muslim!. Denial of reality is not a rebuttal!
Now I am sure your going to say this is not torture. Like all of your other ridiculous ramblings!
Qur'an 5:33 "The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly."
Tabari VIII:122
Ishaq:515 "The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, 'Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah's chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him."
Now I am sure you are going to say commanding someone to torture another is not torturing, correct? LOL!
Every single thing you say Osama is a LIE! EVERYTHING!
Ishaq:595 "The Apostle said, 'Get him away from me and cut off his tongue.'"
Ishaq:312 "Umar said to the Apostle, 'Let me pull out Suhayl's two front teeth. That way his tongue will stick out and he will never be able to speak against you again.'"
Tabari VII:133
Ishaq:387 "When Muhammad saw Hamzah he said, 'If Allah gives me victory over the Quraysh at any time, I shall mutilate thirty of their men!' When the Muslims saw the rage of the Prophet they said, 'By Allah, if we are victorious over them, we shall mutilate them in a way which no Arab has ever mutilated anybody."
Tabari VIII:96 "A raiding party led by Zayd set out against Umm in Ramadan. During it, Umm suffered a cruel death. Zyad tied her legs with rope and then tied her between two camels until they split her in two. She was a very old woman. Then they brought Umm's daughter and Abdallah to the Messenger. Umm's daughter belonged to Salamah who had captured her. Muhammad asked Salamah for her, and Salamah gave her to him."
And no Muslim did anything without the direct or indirect consent of your death cult leader!
Please disregard my previous post. I did not paste the entire message.
@ Osama Abdallah.
“[005:008] O ye who believe! stand out firmly for God, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear God. For God is well-acquainted with all that ye do.”
Response:
You can quote as many verses as you want regarding justice proving that Islam promote justice. And I won’t disagree with you that there are verses that calls for justice, but the main question here is, what is meant by “justice” in Islam.
Well, lets see. E.g., first, Allah in the quran allows moslem men to commit adultery with their female captives even while their husbands are still alive. It would be completely just for moslem men to do this according to the Quran and Allah. However, it is not just in the eyes of the rest of the world. Second, Allah tells moslems to subdue Christians and Jews till they pay jizzya and feel humiliated. For you moslems, it will be just and perfectly alright to do it while for the rest of the world it would be unjust, for the rest of the world respect human rights. Third, moslem men are allowed to beat their wives and it would be perfectly just for you to do it. However, for the rest of the world it would be violation of basic human rights which of course you won’t even understand. And there are numerous other things in the hadith and Sunna of your prophet which would annihilate justice compared to how the rest of the world means by justice.
You also state, "Islam is big, VERY BIG, on justice. It is no joke in Islam. And the Prophet has many Sayings about how the people of knowledge and the leaders AND THE JUDGES will be the ones who will receive the most severe punishments.”
Response:
I come from a moslem country and I have not seen more corrupt judges then moslems. You are like an ostrich who has buried his head in the sand and is oblivious of what is around him. I don’t even want to comment on what you are thinking (or smoking). In addition, if we apply what I have mentioned above regarding justice, then from your prospective, you would consider a christian judge to be unjust since he will be accepting a woman’s testimony to be equivelant to that of a man. According to you a moslem judge would be a just judge to dismiss a case where a woman has to give a testimony because women’s testimony is considered half of a man because of their intellect deficiency. And no wonder you consider any non moslem judge to be unjust.
@ Osama
Justice is a different thing in Islam than it is to the rest of the civilized world. As you can see here!
He who kills a believing soul intentionally, Allah makes the Fire of Hell his abode, He will become angry with him, and curse him, and has prepared a tremendous punishment for him, equal to if he had killed all people, his punishment will still be the same.
Human Beings Should Respect the Sanctity of Other Human Beings
Tafsir Ibn Kathir
A non Muslim does not have equal rights and not perceived as an equal in anything, including jurisprudence!
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah." Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik,
"O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?" He replied, "Whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have."
Sahih Bukhari 1:8:387, See also: Sahih Bukhari 1:2:24
Now either you are a LIAR! Or completly ignorant of Islam and its doctrine! Oh wait, you said Islam is solid, no, you said no scholar agrees, wait. What is Islam again? It seems you can rationalize just about anything depending on the weather, the day, the person, the mood. Islam is the most vile, evil, ideology man has ever concocted.
Osama,
All you ramblings do is help to show how ambiguous and immoral Islam is!
I asked 'Ali "Do you have anything Divine literature besides what is in the Qur'an?" Or, as Uyaina once said, "Apart from what the people have?" 'Ali said, "By Him Who made the grain split (germinate) and created the soul, we have nothing except what is in the Quran and the ability (gift) of understanding Allah's Book which He may endow a man, with and what is written in this sheet of paper." I asked, "What is on this paper?" He replied, "The legal regulations of Diya (Blood-money) and the (ransom for) releasing of the captives, and the judgment that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for killing a Kafir (disbeliever)."
Sahih Bukhari 9:83:50, See also: Sahih Bukhari 1:3:111, and Sahih Bukhari 4:52:283
Now is that justice and equality? You live a lie, and you spew lies! And you are completly refuted. And you know what? It didnt take me long at all.
Now what were you saying about Islam being solid again? How do you live with yourself? How do you look yourself in the mirror and say that it is ok to spread the lies and nonsense that you do?
A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.[1] Unlike hallucinations, delusions are always pathological (the result of an illness or illness process).
An illusion is a distortion of the senses, revealing how the brain normally organizes and interprets sensory stimulation. While illusions distort reality
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes.
@ Osama
Thanks for saying Allah is a bully!
Remember Sura 9 was one of the last revealed!
Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"
009.030
YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
Imprison them and if the accept Islam, let them go, if they dont murder them! Thats Allah!
9.028
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, soon will Allah enrich you, if He wills, out of His bounty, for Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.
Kick all the non Muslims out of their homes and their place of commerce. Where people of all races and religions were gathering for trade. Thats kindness and justice!
9.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Attack all non Muslims in non Islamic country and force them to pay protection money (like the mafia), and feel themselves subdued (do you want Ibn kathirs tafsir? 0r and accept apartheid like existence of subservience, or be murdered!
Abu Ishaq said that he heard al-Bara' b 'Azib (Allah be pleased with him) say: The last complete sura revealed (in the Holy Qur'an) is Sura tauba (i e. al-Bara'at, ix.), and the last verse revealed is that pertaining to Kalala.
Sahih Muslim 11:3941
O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).
Qur'an 9:123
* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recite Verse
Open in new window
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{ يٰأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ قَاتِلُواْ ٱلَّذِينَ يَلُونَكُمْ مِّنَ ٱلْكُفَّارِ وَلْيَجِدُواْ فِيكُمْ غِلْظَةً وَٱعْلَمُوۤاْ أَنَّ ٱللَّهَ مَعَ ٱلْمُتَّقِينَ }
O you who believe, fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, that is, the nearest, followed by the next nearest of them, and let them find harshness in you, that is, severity, in other words, be harsh with them, and know that God is with the pious, helping and granting [them] victory.
Ah the kindness and justice of Islam. Osama, you are among the deceived! Get down on your hands and knees, pray for God to show you the truth. Accept Christ. And you will have an instant awakening from your darkness hypocrisy and logical fallacies. I dont hate you in any way. I admit I dislike your tactics and willful ignorance. But i do love you. You are just a victim. I feel for you. Wake up!
"Quote "I am not sure I agree with you on the "second class apartheid like status". The Jizyah that the infidels had to pay IN HUMILIATION was due to hostility. It was a punishment for them. This Law doesn't apply to all disbelievers, exactly as the Law of Apostatasy also doesn't apply to all of those who leave Islam. You're taking Statements out of our Holy Quran and you're making them absolute Statements that apply to everybody. This is where you're wrong."
Response - Provide evidence for your assertions."
******************
RESPONSE:
*********************
The evidence is the following points:
1- The Islamic State is responsible for providing protection to all citizens or subjects. I think we both agree on this one.
2- If one citizen or subject violates another, then the law of the land applies. This is where Allah Almighty's Commands, such as the following, come in:
[004:059] O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Apostle, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.
You're again making the mistake of making everything absolute in the Holy Quran, and worse in the narrations and stories outside the Holy Quran. You can't do that, nor do Scholars agree with you on this. This is why in all of the Muslim states that had Christians living in them, such as Egypt, Syria and others that used Islam in their civil courts, the murderer gets executed regardless of the religion of his victim so long the victim is also a citizen of the country. In Egypt, where the Al-Azhar Islamic Institution had ruled all of the civil affairs of the country for many centuries, the Muslim would get executed if he murdered a Coptic or any non-Muslim citizen. This is a fact that you can not dispute. Period!
***************************
I CHALLENGE YOU TO REFUTE THIS POINT. And you have yet to respond to all of my challenges that I posed to you above as well. You have ignored all of them by brushing them aside.
******************************
(continued)
You can sit here and quote me narrations and stories about specific situations and battles that happened 1,500 years ago all you want. But none of your quotes stand, because none of them are CLEAR-CUT ABSOLUTE LAWS. And as the Holy Quran is Crystal Clear about following the Law of the land, Allah Almighty also left the following of the RULING AUTHORITY OPEN in the Holy Quran, based on the State or the Community. I mean, who else beside Prophet Muhammad was a ruling authority back when these Noble Verses were revealed? No one! Yet, despite that, we still do have Noble Verses that Command not only following the Ruling Authority, but to also establishing democracy among us (voting and following the ruling of the majority and so on):
[042:038] Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual Consultation; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance;
"Quote "The hate that you're filled with had obviously blinded you to read the obvious. The Prophet of Islam NEVER KILLED ANY CHILD. His Saying said that we must never kill any child because we will never be like Prophet Khidir, peace be upon him, who killed one child because Allah Almighty Revealed to him that the child will put his parents through much hardship and he'll be an infidel. ************The Hadith that you quoted is an affirmation that we must never even think about killing children."
False. They are directions on who till kill and who to leave aside! Like it says! Your delusional!"
******************
RESPONSE:
*********************
No, you're very wrong and superficial and wasting of time. Plus, you're now pretending that you don't know Arabic idioms and styles of speech.
1- The Holy Quran is clear about no one knows what the future holds.
2- Allah Almighty also Said that ONLY HE KNOWS WHAT'S IN THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF PEOPLE.
3- In Islam everyone is a Muslim by FITRAH (while their helpless and clueless children who can't think for themselves and decide for themselves). Every child is a Muslim in Islam.
4- The Prophet said (sacrasticly) that if you know which child will become a hostile infidel when he grows up, then go ahead and kill it. I Muhammad never and will never kill any child because I don't know who will become a Muslim and will be a hostile enemy to Allah Almighty.
5- There are even many many Hadiths about the Prophet saying that he doesn't even know what will HAPPEN TO HIM PERSONALLY IN THIS LIFE AND IN THE HEREAFTER!
You still don't get it, do you?
(continued)
"You are a liar and have absolutely NO integrity at all! He said, "they are from them" Meaning do not be concerned with them. How you can try and think that you could get away this lie is beyond me! He is disregarding their safety because they are from them! You have NO integrity at ALL!"
******************
RESPONSE:
*********************
The battle had to be won. It was an unfortunate situation that women and children got in the way. The reason why you're holding to this for dear life (this is the only quote that you could ever produce about "killing of children") is becasue you're bankrupt. The Prophet never ordered the Muslims to go and kill any child or any civilian OR EVEN ANY SOLDIER THAT SURRENDERS OR DROPS HIS WEAPON. On the contrary, the Prophet commanded the protection of those people. So you're bankrupt and have nothing but noise and empty rants regarding this point.
"Yes thats what I said. The criteria is accepting Islam, or DEATH!
"* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ فَإِذَا ٱنسَلَخَ ٱلأَشْهُرُ ٱلْحُرُمُ فَٱقْتُلُواْ ٱلْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَٱحْصُرُوهُمْ وَٱقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ ٱلصَّلَٰوةَ وَءَاتَوُاْ ٱلزَّكَٰوةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ }
Then, when the sacred months have passed — that is, [at] the end of the period of deferment — slay the idolaters wherever you find them, be it during a lawful [period] or a sacred [one], and take them, captive, and confine them, to castles and forts, until they have no choice except [being put to] death or [acceptance of] Islam;
Its as clear as the growing nose on your face!"
******************
RESPONSE:
*********************
You are a liar, becasue the Arabic text doesn't say "until they have no choice except [being put to] death or [acceptance of] Islam;". You are a liar and you know it. Where does the Arabic say that. COME BACK AND QUOTE THE PORTION THAT SAYS EXACTLY THIS FROM THE ARABIC THAT YOU PROVIDED. Let's see your silly attempts to weasel out of this one with your name-calling and drowning of text. It's criminals like you, Search4Truth, who come on FoxNOISE and make these false statements. They are criminals becasue they give falsehood to criminals like them to hate and kill innocent people based on falsehood and lies and false paranoia.
Anyway, enough for now. You seem that you want to drown the text on purpose. You have not even addressed any of my challenges above about Allah Almighty's LOVE, COMPASSION, KINDNESS AND MERCY that He Commanded the Muslims to practice on the disbelievers. Show me where they are even "abrogated" according to any text that you have! You have none.
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
Ok one more for you, Search4Truth....
"@ Osama
I have refuted it countless times. But Islam has destroyed your ability for simple reasoning.
First of all 60:* was abrogated by the later ayats of subjugation OR murder!
* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn 60:8
this was [revealed] before the command to struggle against them. Assuredly God loves the just."
RESONSE:
I say this has got to be the funniest "refutation" you have come up with. You again, inserted words into the Jalayns' mouths by saying that they said that the Noble Verse was abrogated.
Let me get this straight for you Mr. Search4Truth:
1- Love and the Love of Allah Almighty are deeply rooted in the Holy Quran. It is so rooted that Allah Almighty even praises the Christians for having this quality in them.
2- For you to come here and say that the LOVE OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY is now all gone in the Holy Quran shows how silly you are, and how silly and ridiculous any Muslim would be if he/she were to utter this nonsense.
There are no "abrogations" sir. The Jalalyns are again pointing out a dynamic rulings in the Holy Quran, where one can be applied for exceptional cases.
**********IN FACT, IN VERY YOUR OWN QUOTE ABOVE, they're suggesting that the bigger and more general and more abroader LAW IS THE ONE THAT I MENTIONED, while the smaller and more specific one to a certain situation is the one you mentioned.
Let us read your quote again:
* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn 60:8
this was [revealed] before the command to struggle against them. Assuredly God loves the just.
Do you still not get it?
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
@ Osama.
LOL! You are still clinging to these logical fallacies. Without equality, there can NEVER be justice. And non Muslims do not hold equality under Islam.
1. Guards in prisons are also responsible for providing protection for the inmates.
2. Irrelevant
Quote from Osama "You're again making the mistake of making everything absolute in the Holy Quran, and worse in the narrations and stories outside the Holy Quran. You can't do that, nor do Scholars agree with you on this"
Quote from Osama " Islam is solid and unchanged."First of all, no two Muslim "scholars" agree on the amount of the Noble Verses that were "abrogated" (notice the double quotes here), nor on what Noble Verses supposedly abrogated what Noble Verses."
It seems to me its another case of a Muslims saying whatever he has to say in order to defend Islam. No matter how many times you contradict yourself and use logical fallacies. You think if you give any answer even if it contradicts your previous one, it is a response! well it is a response, but it is inconsistent! Like Islam, and you, and your scholars, and your false hypocrite Prophet!
@ Osama
Quote " This is why in all of the Muslim states that had Christians living in them, such as Egypt, Syria and others that used Islam in their civil courts, the murderer gets executed regardless of the religion of his victim so long the victim is also a citizen of the country."
So your saying that those nations and laws created by man are more moral and just than your Allahs and Prophets! You just explained to us how Islamic jurisprudence is inferior to the secular laws of Islamic nations! You are awesome! Thank you.
What is the point of Mohamed saying that no Muslim should be killed for killing a kafre if it is not the best, most appropriate way in the eyes of Allah? LOL! This is amazing.
You are fabricating Islam, dismissing the sahih hadith, and reinventing it. This is pathetic!
@ Osama
Maybe Allah has sealed your eyes, ears and mind. But I responded to all of them! Claiming I didnt does not mean I didnt. Repost the question and i will repost the answer. It seems your eyes are as selective as your mind.
LOL! First of all Islam does not teach to follow the rulings of the kafre. And i dont know if you recall a verse from hundreds of years prior to Mohamed. Have you ever heard, give unto Caeser what is Caesars? WOW! You are one of the worst apologists on the face of the planet! I am not sure who is worse, you or Nadir! No wonder you didnt show up for the last several debates!
What do you think these mean?
Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
Qur'an (18:26) - "[Allah] maketh none to share in his government."
Qur'an (19:64) - "And we do not descend but by the command of your Lord; to Him belongs whatever is before us and whatever is behind us and whatever is between these, and your Lord is not forgetful."
@ Osmama
No, you're very wrong and superficial and wasting of time. Plus, you're now pretending that you don't know Arabic idioms and styles of speech.
1- The Holy Quran is clear about no one knows what the future holds.
2- Allah Almighty also Said that ONLY HE KNOWS WHAT'S IN THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF PEOPLE.
3- In Islam everyone is a Muslim by FITRAH (while their helpless and clueless children who can't think for themselves and decide for themselves). Every child is a Muslim in Islam.
4- The Prophet said (sacrasticly) that if you know which child will become a hostile infidel when he grows up, then go ahead and kill it. I Muhammad never and will never kill any child because I don't know who will become a Muslim and will be a hostile enemy to Allah Almighty.
5- There are even many many Hadiths about the Prophet saying that he doesn't even know what will HAPPEN TO HIM PERSONALLY IN THIS LIFE AND IN THE HEREAFTER!
You still don't get it, do you?
All baseless unsubstantiated speculation and conjecture! You havent proven any of these things that you claim are absolutes. And I have already refuted most of them!
@ Osmama
Quote "You are a liar, becasue the Arabic text doesn't say "until they have no choice except [being put to] death or [acceptance of] Islam;"
Well OSmama you better take it up with Tafsir al-Jalalayn, trans. Feras Hamza
© 2012 Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Amman, Jordan (http://www.aalalbayt.org) ® All Rights Reserved
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=9&tAyahNo=5&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
Go call up the Royal Al Al bayt Institute for islamic thought and tell them they are liars. LOL!
You are to easy! Way to easy. your worse at debating then writing your fallacious ridiculous blog! LOL!
Yeah I get it Osama! I got it a long time ago!
60:8 was revealed before the commands to subjugate or slaughter ALL non Muslims for all time! Just like what I said in my first statement! It still holds true!
Abu Ishaq said that he heard al-Bara' b 'Azib (Allah be pleased with him) say: The last complete sura revealed (in the Holy Qur'an) is Sura tauba (i e. al-Bara'at, ix.), and the last verse revealed is that pertaining to Kalala.
Sahih Muslim 11:3941
Thoroughly and easily refuted. Now tell me what i didnt answer and I will scroll up and repost the answer.
"@ Osmama
Quote "You are a liar, becasue the Arabic text doesn't say "until they have no choice except [being put to] death or [acceptance of] Islam;"
Well OSmama you better take it up with Tafsir al-Jalalayn, trans. Feras Hamza
© 2012 Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Amman, Jordan (http://www.aalalbayt.org) ® All Rights Reserved
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=9&tAyahNo=5&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
Go call up the Royal Al Al bayt Institute for islamic thought and tell them they are liars. LOL!"
RESPONSE:
Did I not tell you that you're bankrupt and desperate? You first lied and said that it was the HOLY QURAN that Said it. It turns out that the Holy Book didn't. It was a mere tafsir (interpretation) of one scholar, or a student or a student of a student of a scholar, as these TAFSIR VOLUMES were not written by one or two people. The same goes for the Sahih Hadith volumes by the way Yet, in the very same link (using the drop-down list of the "Tafsir" field) that you gave, mister, the other scholar said different things:
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=9&tAyahNo=5&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
"(Then, when the sacred months have passed) then after the day of immolation when the month of Muharram passes, (slay the idolaters) whose treaty is for fifty days (wherever ye find them) whether in the Sacred Precinct or outside it, during the sacred months or at any other time, (and take them (captive)) imprison them, (and besiege them) in their homes, (and prepare for them each ambush) on every road they tread for trade. (But if they repent) from idolatry and believe in Allah (and establish worship) and acknowledge the five daily prayers (and pay the poor-due) acknowledge the payment of the poor-due, (then leave their way free) if they wish to go to the House of Allah. (Lo! Allah is Forgiving) He forgives whoever repents, (Merciful) towards whosoever dies in a state of repentance."
I can do the same and use the Talmud as Tafsir against the Bible, especially on the verses that deal with slaughters (which they dno't even need tafsir).
I just want everyone to see the ridiculous approach in this. These people use large volumes of books to pick and choose silly quotes and opinions of mere writers against Islam. While I admit that they may have some validity in this approach, but when they use these opinions and wrtings and say that these are ABSOLUTE LAWS IN ISLAM, THEN THIS BECOMES VERY RIDICULOUS!
Search4Truth, can you honestly tell everyone here that you deep inside yourself truly believe that Islam Commands the killing of all captives? I mean really, what are you try to prove here??
It's a simple yes or no answer.
Regards,
Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com
@ Osama Abdallah,
“Love and the Love of Allah Almighty are deeply rooted in the Holy Quran. It is so rooted that Allah Almighty even praises the Christians for having this quality in them.”
Response:
Can you please tell me which Christians is Allah praising in the Quran? No Christian from the first century believed in Allah. They didn't even know who Allah is. The Arab Christians might have known Allah as the moon god of pagans which later Mohammad forged to be the true god. It would be a blasphemy for a true Christian to believe in Allah as the true and living God. How could they have love for him. According to the Bible, Allah is not the God of the Bible. So, let me know which Christians Allah is referring to?
@ssama
Hahahahhaha!
Osama says *I* need more integrety! Ha! The guy who has smeared me for supposedly wanting hate crimes against muslims to happen (only because IO cited a report that says they do not happen very often) and has repeatedly misrepresented the bible in OBVIOUS WAYS (read 6:6 as a death penalty, 12:9 as a licence to sin) (and then hypocritically is angry at misrepresentations of the Koran!) and slanders Christians as encouraging what is forbiden (drunk driving, gangs, wars, rape), and then REPEATIDLY refuses to apollogize or even actknowledsge his mistakes! He also fairly frequently to name calling. Yet, yes, I am the dishonest one!
Integrety Osama? Maybe you can tell me what that is? Is it different for Muslims than everyone else? You are a HYPOCRITE!
Mr. Spencer is making the same arguments that are being made here, and so far, I've yet to see a working refutation of anything that has bneen said in critisim of Islam. I gusss that makes Mr. Woods, the rest of Acts 17, the commenters here and myself all criminals in your eyes!
Then he attacks my name, which has nothing to do with anything (my name is because I was born on april 1st) and calls me names. Yep! Your name calling and lies sure show how you are intellectaly and morally superior to me!
Shameful.
Also, since you didn't reply to this in the eggs over Sami topic:
"since Samatar has asked me to (though I suspect you will once again ignore me) do you now, unequiviqually renounce all forms of violence against citizen (that is, people who are not actively taking up arms or engaged in conflict, be they muslim or non-musim) and non-beleivers, and supression of their beliefs, regardless of thier beliefs, or where they live? Do you now unequiviqually renounce HAMAS and HEZBALLAH as genocidal terrorist groups?
If not (to any question), why not?"
Will you run again?
@ Osama
LOL! You can use the Talmud all you want when you debate a Jew. Feel free. I am not Jewish! LOL!
You may be a worse apologist then Nadir Ahmed! Whats even funnier is you think that being consistent is a ridiculous approach.
So now the two Jalalayns are mere writers? They are Some of Islams greatest scholars. I used your scholars. You are not a scholar, In fact many Muslims thik your a heretic. because you are so inconsistent and illogical. Just like you have been here. I never said that islam commands the killing of all captives. How many times do I have to say this. I agree with your tafsir. Like i have been saying from the beginning.
ISLAM COMMANDS THE SUBJUGATION OR SLAUGHTER OF ALL NON MUSLIMS FOR ALL TIME.
And I proved it in many ways with multiple sources from YOUR Islamic doctrine! Your pathetic. You are suffering from cognitive dissonance! The Jalalayns Knew what they were taling about. Your just a modern day indoctrinated zealot who cannot grasp the totality of what Islam teaches. i know it hurts you to accept the truth Osanma. Im sorry that you are hurt, and confused. I am trying to reach you. God is. It is clear for all that are capable of objective reasoning, critical thinking, and intellectual integrity to see. You are having difficulty accepting reality. It's what YOUR scholars and Prophet and Allah say! Accept it. you are lying to yourself!
YES I BELIEVE IT OSAMA! BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT ISLAM TEACHES!
@ Osama
Sorry but i will trust your early scholars who were not trying to reinvent Islam to deceive themselves or the kafres !!
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=9&tAyahNo=5&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ فَإِذَا ٱنسَلَخَ ٱلأَشْهُرُ ٱلْحُرُمُ فَٱقْتُلُواْ ٱلْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ وَخُذُوهُمْ وَٱحْصُرُوهُمْ وَٱقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ ٱلصَّلَٰوةَ وَءَاتَوُاْ ٱلزَّكَٰوةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ }
Then, when the sacred months have passed — that is, [at] the end of the period of deferment — slay the idolaters wherever you find them, be it during a lawful [period] or a sacred [one], and take them, captive, and confine them, to castles and forts, until they have no choice except [being put to] death or [acceptance of] Islam; and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush, [at every] route that they use (kulla, ‘every’, is in the accusative because a [preceding] genitive-taking preposition has been removed). But if they repent, of unbelief, and establish prayer and pay the alms, then leave their way free, and do not interfere with them. God is Forgiving, Merciful, to those who repent.
Tafsir al-Jalalayn, trans. Feras Hamza
© 2012 Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute for Islamic Thought, Amman, Jordan (http://www.aalalbayt.org) ® All Rights Reserved
Read it and weep Osama!
Muslim (19:4294) - "When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him... He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war... When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them.
Accept Islam, Be subjugated and be extorted from, live in an apartheid like status. or be murdered.
Now admit I was correct from the beginning. Or live a lie. You choose!
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