Wednesday, May 16, 2012

Muslim Commenter Sinks to New Low

Actually, I shouldn't say that he sank to a new low. I should say that he's living according to the example set by his prophet and his prophet's companions.

"Rambo John" is a Muslim who spends quite a bit of time defending Islam over at the Muslim Debate Initiative's "Blogging Theology" page. Yesterday, Rambo John sent Sam Shamoun a private message:
your wife is sexy
does she have the holy ghost in her?
tell your wife to call me 07772342197
In just three lines, this devout Muslim apologist manages (1) to admit he's been lusting after Sam's wife, (2) to engage in the lowest form of personal attack against Sam, (3) to request an adulterous relationship with a Christian woman, and (4) to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. It seems Muslims are forced to behave this way by their inability to refute Sam's arguments.

Of course, our Muslim readers, and even many non-Muslim readers, are thinking to themselves, "But David, surely this man's actions have nothing to do with Islam. Islam encourages noble behavior, not childish insults against other people's beliefs."

Wrong. Consider the following passage. A man points out two alternatives for Muhammad. If Muhammad is victorious over the Quraysh, he will be remembered as the man who slaughtered his own tribesmen. If the Quraysh are victorious over him, Muhammad's followers will abandon him. Pay close attention to Abu Bakr's response:
Urwah went to the Prophet and began speaking to him. The Prophet spoke as he had spoken to Budayl. Then Urwah said: "Muhammad, tell me: if you extirpate [i.e. exterminate] your tribesmen, have you ever heard of any of the Arabs who destroyed his own race before you? And if the contrary comes to pass, by God I see both prominent people and rabble who are likely to flee and leave you." Abu Bakr said, "Go suck the clitoris of al-Lat! Would we flee and leave him?" (History of al-Tabari, Volume 8, p. 76)
Al-Lat was a goddess worshipped by Urwah (yes, this is the same al-Lat praised by Muhammad in the infamous "Satanic Verses"). Notice that Abu Bakr responds to Urwah's reasonable comment with an extraordinarily offensive insult against Urwah's religious beliefs.

This is exactly the sort of response we would expect from Muhammad's companions, since Muhammad himself encouraged his followers to use vulgar insults:
Ubayy b. Ka‘b told that he heard God’s messenger say, “If anyone proudly asserts his descent in the manner of the pre-Islamic people, tell him to bite his father’s penis, and do not use a euphemism.” (Mishkat Al Masabih)
Fortunately, most Muslims live far better lives than their prophet or his companions. But some Muslims (regrettably) continue to follow Muhammad's example.

***UPDATE*** Devout Muslim apologist Rambo John saw my post and sent Sam some additional messages. While it's horrifying to read such repulsive words, it's good to see that some Muslims are giving us a glimpse of Islam's true teachings. (WARNING! These messages contain extremely offensive language.)

1st New Message:
hey scum bag, POST this on woods blog also, jesus the LIAR AND FRAUD and lawless jew said that ot predicted his murder. but here is a SUPRISE for u and jesus, THE OT DOES NOT PREDICT the s hit that jesus said.

fukin fat chicken sh it , i never see you post in places where people would screw, blue and tatoo your fat christian as s, why are u a fukin chicken, i gave u my mobile phone number , contact me u mo fo, tell your wife to contact me, i would like to tell her that she needs me more than she needs jezuz and christianity lol
2nd New Message:
u know u pathetic shamoun, you expose my words for all to see, but how much do you EXPOSE your sins u dirty cockroach? how much do you reveal about the church whore u gaze at to your dirty ass pastor? u like a fukin SLUT on jerey springer REVEAL what is SECRET to the public, but how much did matthew, mark luke and john reveal WHAT is destructive to christian faith? naaa, when it comes to christians, you dirty mo fo's keep you crimes a secret, right? lol.

you're wife aswell shamoun, how much does she reveal about how she likes me and wants me for enjoyment? you wife didn't tell u that did she? do you want to see your wifes text messages ? lol

the deciples made jesus proud, they left him for dead lol.
Of course, Muslims can't condemn Rambo John's insults and foul language, because to condemn his words would be to condemn Muhammad and his companions!


Rag said...

Its unbelievable that 1.5 billion people call this disgusting fellow as a messenger of god....its clear that all of them are possessed by demons and are following demons with their dirty mouths...

andy bell said...

Not that I'm defending Rambo John, in any way, shape, or form. But it could be that this guy is trolling. Half of nadir ahmed and Osama bin laden abdullah's act is trolling just for trolling's sake. I've never seen a serious muslim actually debate in any of these forums or debates. I watch the christian prince yt vids, and it's the same with those. Muslims will get on and try and sorta debate. When things go horribly wrong, as they always do when they're presented with some goofy or disgusting thing that their prophet did in the hadiths, they resort to insults and death threats.

Not that it justify's anything that this poser has said.

apran said...

I am not surprised with such disgusting behaviour from muslims, because the muslims I meet in the internet are often consistently using similar attacks to me or other anti Islam people.
It seems like they are very proud that they can mock and slander their opponents eventhough it is very clear to everybody that they are just lying.

blessed z said...

Initially I thought this Rambo John is an average Muslim. Oh..he's an apologist? Shame on you Muslim. Even an apologist behave so childish.

Seam_on_Us said...

Truly disgusting!

Zack_Tiang said...

Very low... undignified.

Only a fool with no sense or honesty would say such things.

Juniper in the Desert said...

Mozlems have no morals, nothing that is evil is forbidden to them, so long as they attack people in the name of their pagan deity al'ah, the moon god.
Luckily, there are stil 6.7 billion people in the world who are not mozlem!

cheryl_maree said...

His behavior does not shock me at all! I was trying to understand Islam and so I went to some rooms on Pal Talk and when I was questioning what they were saying they would ask if I was a women and of course I said yes, then they would come off with some rude comment and red dot me, I deleted pal talk, they are serving demons and satan is behind Islam, I believe that wholeheartedly!!

TAREK said...

Dear Sam
I truly lack words to express in writing what I feel deeply.
If he can send such text message it simply means he is not far of harming you in order to gain free access to your wife. It is a pity to have the product of this demoniac religion (islam) in this world. In any case I know you have forgiven him but please take care of yourself and your family as you know they(muslims "some of them") are capable of killing a fellow human being


Foolster41 said...

Another question is how many Muslims will actually condemn his behavior. It seems muslims (who claim to be moderate and reject such dishonesty) are hesitant to criticize other Muslims, when they say things like this, or make genocidal statements.

simple_truth said...

Rag said...

"Its unbelievable that 1.5 billion people call this disgusting fellow as a messenger of god"

Well, you can't use your POV on many of them because they are probably so ignorant of him and only have the idolized version of him whereby lots of the "disgusting" aspects of him are either left out or are morally equivocated as done by many apologists for Islam. I know have to believe that you have been around enough of these blogs, forums, etc. to realize that they often defend their prophet by moral/social relativism, tu quoque, or outright lying and/or deception. Keep in mind that many so-called Muslims are less adept to critical analysis and objectivity. They will call a rotten apple and good one or see it as an exception rather than the rule in examining it.

"....its clear that all of them are possessed by demons and are following demons with their dirty mouths..."

Perhaps some of them are; but, that is a very dangerous position to hold since many of them are simply trapped into the ideology and are highly ignorant of what they have subscribed to; however, I would say that probably most of them that actually have studied extensively and understand the evil side of Islam and still remain engaged in it to harm others are undoubtedly evil and cancerous to humanity.

Patrik said...

Sam said...

the guy who sent sam shamoun these messages is not a muslim. he disrespected jesus and the holy spirit. this guy is probably just a person who doesnt know what he beleives and probably likes to talk shit

Search 4 Truth said...

Why doesnt the hypocrite coward come to this blog and post his vile rants? Because he knows he Islam, and his false Prophet will be exposed!

blessed z said...

I am speechless to know the new messages of this Islam apologist. I know Muslim character well as I am from Muslim country. I know how ego they are to hold firm that their belief is the most righteous on earth. And I know how sensitive they are when somebody talk about Islam. But I can't believe this apologist whom I suppose to live in America to attack Christian apologist with such rude and indecent words. I expect at least their apologist show some professionalism in defending Islam. What kind of religion is this? It's jaw dropping to know all their followers, educated and uneducated, stay firm to blindly believe Islam is true despite all those facts from their own quran and other books about Muhammad's life and character and teaching which many are inhuman. I hope many Muslim will now realize how evil Islam teaching is and put aside their human ego to humble their heart to admit how wrong they hv been to be under that evil teaching and prepare their heart to accept the true words of God.

David Wood said...

Sam said: "the guy who sent sam shamoun these messages is not a muslim."

For a non-Muslim, he sure spends a lot of time defending Islam.

Muslims who attack and blaspheme Jesus will often say, "Well, I'm only referring to the Christian Jesus." And their religion allows them to mock beliefs they disagree with, even in the most offensive terms.

minoria said...

I am horrified by such stupid behaviour and hope the guy leaves Sam and his wife alone.

Ali Sina said when a Muslim acts like that it is often because he doubts Islam.

Samatar Mohamed said...


Of course I condemn this behavior. But I think he has his own motives for acting in that manner. I'm not sure why he did, but that guy is a sad excuse for a human being.

Davidsmountain .^. said...

A perfect example, where words are not enough! There is no defense against the article of faith, that drives Islamic jihad. There is only the ignorance, sheer stupidity and vulgarity, of what Islam truly represents! Muslims have ALWAYS lived in arrogant denial of the truth, the countless atrocities committed against humanity, in the name of Islam.

It's an exercise in futility to debate or try to reason with the ignorant, brainwashed adherents of Islam. Talking only serves to appease the sadistic, evil minions of Islam. There is no "getting along", no kumbaya, no true friendship, with Muslims.

I tell you David Wood, it's fine that you appease your Muslim friend Nabeel, by not "offending" him by ordering "pork chops" at a luncheon. I Think you miss the BIG point, that given "true" friendship and it's reciprocations, that it's also incumbent upon your Muslim friend, to be just as considerate and tell you to order pork ribs, a BLT, pulled pork burrito, chops, sausage or any other desire, that suits your taste, without feeling insulted or dominate. THAT'S FRIENDSHIP - A TWO-WAY STREET!

You SIR, are part of the problem with Christian leadership! There's no common ground with Christians (collectively) or non-Muslims against the Islamic agenda, for fear it will upset, the already out of control, radical element, acting out in Islamic jihad. You're simply repeating the same mistakes made over and over again, history repeating itself, in an effort to appease and reason with the unreasonable.

Dualism, means just that . . . it's one sided! Muslims will say ANYTHING, to disarm, deceive and placate us, as they demand we submit. I realize there is a time for dialogue, but with Islam, it's only when they are at a disadvantage, a time tested tactic to manipulate and buy time, as they regroup and gain strength.

Conquer the CONQUERORS, then talk! Islam has conquered every culture it has ever ascended, at some point. When will we learn from history and do it different than our ancestors? We are at war with Islam. It's not a war we want, but it's a war we MUST WIN, here at home and around the world! Failure is NOT an option! The 1.5 billion, isn't going to dictate to the 5.5 billion, how it's going to be! Be prepared, because it's going to get really ugly and words . . . JUST WON'T BE ENOUGH!

Immigration . . . IS infiltration!

David Wood said...

Davidsmountain said: "I tell you David Wood, it's fine that you appease your Muslim friend Nabeel, by not "offending" him by ordering "pork chops" at a luncheon. I Think you miss the BIG point, that given "true" friendship and it's reciprocations, that it's also incumbent upon your Muslim friend, to be just as considerate and tell you to order pork ribs, a BLT, pulled pork burrito, chops, sausage or any other desire, that suits your taste, without feeling insulted or dominate. THAT'S FRIENDSHIP - A TWO-WAY STREET!"

Silliest comment of the day. Why would Nabeel tell me to order pork ribs when he believes it's wrong to eat pork ribs? He'd be telling me to do something that he believes is a sin.

And do you really consider it "appeasement" to choose something other than pork when dining with a Muslim? For the record, I wouldn't order meat if I were dining with someone who believes that eating meat is morally wrong. It's just silly to offend someone over something as stupid as food. If I'm going to offend someone, it's going to be over something important. It sounds like you believe people need to go out of their way to do whatever we're allowed to do. But Christians have a different perspective.

Oddly enough, you consider this a problem for "Christian leadership." But if Christians start disobeying scripture in order to make you happy, they wouldn't be Christian leaders. If you don't believe in the New Testament, that's up to you. Other people are committed to scripture.

David Wood said...

BTW, I think this may be the first time someone has accused me of trying to appease Muslims! Normally, people call me a bigot and an Islamophobe for constantly criticizing Muhammad. But now I'm an appeaser and part of the problem because I don't cover myself in pork dripping when I meet with a Muslim! Nice!

David Wood said...

1 Corinthians 9:19-23--Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

Foolster41 said...

Samatar: Oh, that's good. You once said there are only moderiate muslims here on this blog, and specificly named Osama and Kangaroo as examples. Of course you completely ignoring their calls for islamic suprermiscist supression of non-muslims and anti-semetism, and Oslama's slanders (which you previously had not once critisized). when I pointed this out (with examples) and called you on this, you disappeared.

Zack_Tiang said...

So, how many Muslims have condemn this 'Rambo John' for his behaviour yet?

So far... I only see Samatar.. and even he merely tells us that he condemns such...

Who among the Muslim brothers will actually rebuke "Rambo John" personally and correct him?

Kufar Dawg said...

Did Yeshua ever suggest anyone embrace evil? Because that's what you're doing when you're dining w/muslimes. I don't notice muslimes ANYWHERE on the face of this earth standing up for the Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Bahais being slaughtered and persecuted by their fellow muslime brethren in ALL their muslime pigsties, all over the world, right now, in the 21st century.

Zack_Tiang said...

Cornholio said...
"Did Yeshua ever suggest anyone embrace evil? Because that's what you're doing when you're dining w/muslimes."

Say what?? Have you not read what Jesus did in the Gospel accounts?

Matthew 9:10-13,
And as Jesus reclined at table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were reclining with Jesus and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?"
But when he heard it, he said, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."

David Wood said...

Cornholio said: "Did Yeshua ever suggest anyone embrace evil? Because that's what you're doing when you're dining w/muslimes."

According to Cornholio, one "embraces" evil when one dines with a non-Christian or a sinner.

But Jesus did this constantly in the Gospels. Jesus dined with sinners, prostitutes, tax collectors, scribes, Pharisees, etc. Hence, according to Cornholio, Jesus "embraced" sin regularly.

My best friend in college was a Muslim (who is now a Christian apologist). Cornholio seems to believe I was committing some great evil by having a Muslim friends. It seems I should have shunned and avoided him. Perhaps I should have called him names.

So here's where we're at. Davidsmountain believes Christians should focus on eating more pork around Muslims, and Cornholio's idea of criticism is to avoid contact with Muslims while referring to their religion as "Pisslam."

Impressive. With gentlemen like you standing against Islam, calling names and eating pork, the West can't lose! And here I've been wasting my time formulating arguments against Islam. All I needed was some bacon and name-calling!

Kufar Dawg said...

I sincerely doubt kind words and debate are going to stop islamofascism. The MILLIONS of Christians slaughtered collectively in places like the Sudan, Armenia/Turkey and E. Timor (most of the victims were Catholic) in the 20th century attest to that. As do the more than 2 million Hindus slaughtered by islamonazis in Bangaldesh in the 1970's. Christian outreach programs are a poor joke, they're one-way streets where muslimes lie to Christian congregations.

David Wood said...

Cornholio said: "I sincerely doubt kind words and debate are going to stop islamofascism."

It never crossed my mind that by having dinner with my best friend, I was attempting to stop Islamofascism.

But if your goal is to stop Islamofascism, I don't see how avoiding contact/discussions/debate with Muslims is going to stop it either.

NABEEL: "You want to go get something to eat?"

DAVID: "Never, you Islamofascist!"

Perhaps I could have even referred to his religion as "Pisslam." Yeah, that would have helped. You're definitely doing your part to stop Islamofascisim, Cornholio.

Satish Kumar said...

People simply thinks our words are just words. But it's not.

Matthew 12:36

But I(Jesus) tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.

Matthew 12:37

For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.

Proverbs 12:13

An evil man is trapped by his sinful talk,

proverbs 18:21

Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

Surely those who talk unwanted words and the word which does not pleases God will surely reap.(Mark 4:14-21,Galatians 6:7)

hugh watt said...


"Ali Sina said when a Muslim acts like that it is often because he doubts Islam."

Muhammad acted like that. Muslims who do the same are only following his lead.

Radical Moderate said...

I wonder what Paul Williams has to say on this. If he will issue a public rebuke.

I also wonder has anyone tried to call that number?

Sam said...

Rad, if you want to see what Williams had to say, go and read our exchanges about it here:

I even sent him this post which he still hasn't

Shame on you for justifying this behavior and falsely accusing me of the same. Do I need to hunt down all your nasty, vile posts where you couldn’t help but spew venom towards me? It will be my pleasure to add them to the growing list for comments from your brothers in arms such as Zaatari which I have posted for all to see and read: Anyway, we are not surprised that you won’t rebuke one of your own since to do so is to condemn Muhammad who exemplified the same behavior. The link which you posted to Answering Muslim has the quotes to prove it. So keep up the great job of exposing yourself and your deen,

Davidsmountain .^. said...

Apparently we disagree David. I stand by what I said and I said, "There's no common ground with Christians (collectively) or non-Muslims against the Islamic agenda, for fear it will upset, the already out of control, radical element, acting out in Islamic jihad."

As, you put it, "It's just silly to offend someone over something as stupid as food. If I'm going to offend someone, it's going to be over something important." You make my point David, it's all about being offended, and your actions clearly enforce this pseudo-offense.

I have been to dinner many times with vegetarians, but they don't expect or demand when dining with meateaters, that everyone should not eat meat, so they won't be offended. We all eat what we please, as it should be. Of course Nabeel is satisfied with your reason, he isn't offended by your choice and that's the point!

In effect, he has his way in the good company of a compassinate infidel and you find yourself out of a sense of respect, catering to his sense of entitlement. You don't think that's silly? David we may have some disagreement on certain points, but I'm no less of a Christian, especially one that see's the hypocrisy of Muslims, that say they're our friends.

Wouldn't you agree, that since the Quran states and demands, " A true Muslim is NEVER a true friend to the Christian or Jew, specifically, but an apostate of Islam and worse yet, they are "one of them?" and that Nabeel is already bending the rules, to accomodate your friendship? Which is he David, a Muslim being "friendly" to a Christian, but not a "true friend" or an apostate of Islam?

I respect your calling David, I just have reasonable doubts, about how effective these time tested tactics of how dialogue with Muslims, have always failed to change the reality on the ground or in their minds, except if it serves Islam. I didn't intend to insult you, David. I was making an observation and a point, by questioning your very thoughts and actions.

If I have insulted you David, I sincerely apologize, for my overenthusiasm and confusion, about some of the hypocrisy I see with Muslims and the inherent reactions to them, by non-Muslims. Peace Brother.

Davidsmountain .^. said...

What good are all your formulated arguments, truths and knowledge, brought to bear against Islam, if it falls on deaf ears? Do you really think you can argue against an article of faith? Will your voice and reason rise above the "perfect word"? I say for the most part David, it's an exercise in futility and your shows with Muslim guests, mostly bears it out!

Being informed is only part of the battle, the biggest part for a leader is, do your advocates AND enemies really listen? Is there consensus for a plan of action, not merely an exchange of words.

BTW David, I chose to ignore your over-exaggerations and insults, in favor of fair discussion and debate. Isn't that ironic?

Kufar Dawg said...

Why should I show ANY respect to a religion that advocates the extermination of Jews in three different "authoritative" hadiths? Why should I show any respect to a religion that gives NONE to any other faith? Why should I show respect to a faith that advocates lying? Why should I show any respect to a faith that is up to its armpits in blood? Why should I show any respect to a religion that murders or threatens to murder any of its detractors?

Aletheya said...

@ Cornholio

Are you a Christian who believe in the Word of Jesus that says, "TO LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, AND TO PRAY FOR YOUR PERSECUTORS" (Matthew 5:44) or not?

Do you preach the Gospel or not? If you do, to whom? Because Jesus said to EVERYONE (including the worst of sinners).

So please tell me, how are you going to win them to Christ if you don't interact with them?

Have you truly studied the life of Jesus in the Bible?

He not only mixed with sinners (not doing what they do but preaching to them the way of God), but also ARGUED (a lot) with those (Pharisees, Sadduces, Scribes and Lawyers) who was against His message.

Do you condemn Him too?

David Wood said...

Davidsmountain said: "What good are all your formulated arguments, truths and knowledge, brought to bear against Islam, if it falls on deaf ears?"

Think about the irony here. The context of this exchange is that Davidsmountain is attacking me because when I dine with someone, I don't deliberately choose to eat something that the person believes it's morally wrong to eat. This is exactly how I'm commanded to act in the Bible.

Davidsmountain (presumably an atheist) mocks me for doing this with Nabeel, telling me that such actions are pointless, because my words fall on deaf ears. Yet Nabeel eventually left Islam and became a Christian. Contrary to Davidsmountain's fantasies, SOME people actually listen. Yet they will never listen to Davidsmountain, because all he cares about is deliberately offending Muslims.

I get emails all the time from former Muslims who said they've left Islam after listening to my videos and debates. I've been corresponding with one this morning, who's been challenging an imam and asking me how to respond to the imam's arguments.

None of this would happen if Davidsmountain were in charge, because such discussions are pointless. It's all about eating pork, never about convincing arguments.

Here's an idea, Davidsmountain. Since you don't believe open discussion works, stop discussing your views here. Shouldn't you be eating some ham at a kosher deli, instead of wasting your time with arguments?

kiwimac said...

It astounds me how Islam is so bereft of Morality or even Holiness! It seems that Muhammad justified having a God without Morals and without Love. Islam is not about God,it's all about political control and establishing a Carnal and Earthly Kingdom.

David Wood said...

Cornholio said: "Why should I show ANY respect to a religion that advocates the extermination of Jews in three different "authoritative" hadiths?"

You don't seem to understand the difference between (a) showing respect to a RELIGION, and (b) showing respect to a PERSON. I have no respect for Islam. I have much respect people (certain people, anyway).

FYI, Nabeel was from the Ahmadi sect. They don't believe in persecuting anyone. In fact, the Ahmadis flee to the West because they are persecuted and killed by other Muslims.

Now let's clarify Cornholio's position. In college, I met a Muslim named Nabeel. Nabeel didn't believe in violence, exterminating people, etc. But instead of becoming friends with Nabeel and having discussions with him, I should have simply condemned his religion, mocked his beliefs, insulted him, etc.

The result, of course, would be no exchange of ideas, no honest discussion, no changing of minds. In other words, Cornholio (and Davidsmountain) are no better than the Muslims who want to shut down free speech!

Well, since Cornholio believes in insults and mockery and not arguments and reason, perhaps he should join Davidsmountain on some other blog. This is a debate site for people interested in open debate, not an insult and whining site for people who don't believe in debate. Go burn a Qur'an or something if that will make you feel better.

Radical Moderate said...


Wow he didn't even try. Sam you know I can say some pretty outragesou stuff some times but going after a persons wife like that. That is crossing the line.

Case in point, a Muslim told me to go to hell on this blog I forget which one. I responded with words to the affect of...

"Well if I do go to hell I wont be lonly since your disobediant wife will be there too."

I ment to change it before posting to "I wont be lonely since the majority will be disobediant Muslim wives" but I didnt and posted it.

David rightfully rebuked me for the comment and I deeply regreted it and appologized.

But Paul Williams will not even make a effort when clearly by all standards this guy is in the wrong.

Amazing how they will stick together.

apran said...

"FYI, Nabeel was from the Ahmadi sect. They don't believe in persecuting anyone. In fact, the Ahmadis flee to the West because they are persecuted and killed by other Muslims."

Sorry, I don't share the same view. I don't think that Ahmadis don't believe in persecuting anyone. They say thing like that because they are in a weak position, but once they grap the power, they may change to become the same as the fundamentalist muslims.

Muhammad did that too when he was in Mekah, so it is quite possible the Ahmadis do the same because Muhammad is their prophet. They they have the same Quran too.

David Wood said...


The Ahmadis, unlike other Muslims, believe in another prophet after Muhammad, who reinterpreted Islam (especially Islam's violent teachings). So they're bound by this prophet's reinterpretations. They can't change their minds without going against Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

Additionally, the Ahmadis are universalists. Everyone is going to paradise. It wouldn't make sense for them to go around violently subjugating everyone as soon as they get the chance.

Zack_Tiang said...

Cornholio and Davidsmountain should really go back to studying the life of Jesus and also His apostles, e.g. Paul, Peter, James, etc.

Really went contrary to what they taught and shown by example.
Plenty of places in the book of Acts where Christians discussed/debated/argued with Jews and won them over to Christ.

And even when Apostle Paul was arrested and unjustly commanded to be beaten, he still showed respect as commanded by Scripture...

Acts 23:1-5

And looking intently at the council, Paul said, "Brothers, I have lived my life before God in all good conscience up to this day."
And the high priest Ananias commanded those who stood by him to strike him on the mouth.
Then Paul said to him, "God is going to strike you, you whitewashed wall! Are you sitting to judge me according to the law, and yet contrary to the law you order me to be struck?"
Those who stood by said, "Would you revile God's high priest?"
And Paul said, "I did not know, brothers, that he was the high priest, for it is written, 'You shall not speak evil of a ruler of your people.'"

Aletheya said...

@ Cornholio and Davidsmountain

Do you guys mind telling us what are you?

Christians? Atheists? Or what?

Because, though you might call yourselves Christians, I don't think you are born again Christians.

You probably are those whom I call "religious Christians" - Those who call themselves Christians without having any kind of relationship with God. Just go to church and don't mix with "sinners".
Or should I say, "Those Christians who still believe in the Law of Moses". Tooth for tooth, eye for eye...

Royal Son said...

Christ did not come for the healthy but for the sick.

Sometimes there is a certain view held among Christians that Muslims are incapable of thinking rationally.

I will say for my part, that I only agree in part with such a notion and even so to a more limited than general scope.

I have seen many Christians use extremely poor reasoning skills when it comes to explaining or defending certain aspects of the Christian faith. I have also seen some Muslims actually articulate the doctrine of the Trinity more accurately than many Christians.

That being said, when it comes to consistency, and fair and equal treatment upon both sides of a position, my experience has shown that Muslims often put up a block, saying things like "Allah knows best" as if it solves their problems. But are all Muslims like this? Certainly not. The case with David and Nabeel is a perfect example where God's grace has worked through a vessel to communicate the truths of God's word to a sinner in need of Jesus Christ.

I would say that if a Christian loves only those whom he calls brother or sister (in the faith), then I see little difference between them and the pharisees who would only greet their friends, or sit in the choicest places.

Were we to transport ourselves back to the time of Christ's earthly mission, would we be murmering as we saw Him dining with the tax collectors?

We should really check ourselves. I include myself in this. We deserve the grace of God no more than any Muslim. We deserve the mercy of God no more than any Muslim. Not even Mohammad.

As dispicable as the leader of the Muslims was, and as much as his own words and deeds as recorded in the traditions condemn him, we are no more justified by our own words and deeds than him. Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

That is not to say we cannot rebuke Muslims or those who oppose the faith. For certainly we must if they slander the name of Jesus or the word of God, yet our rebukes are not to bring glory to ourselves, but to usher, by God's grace, a sinner to repentance.

Praise God for the Lord's servants throughout history who have travelled far and wide to spread the gospel and counted the desire of God more worthy than their own lives. May such testimonies of God's endurance, patience, steadfastness, and faithfulness serve to remind us of our calling.

Praise the Lord for our brothers and sisters today who have been gifted to speak and to emulate the pattern set by Christ, Paul, and many servants of the Lord to reach sinners for God's Kingdom.

Lord strengthen Brother David, Anthony, Sam, Nabeel, and all of the team here whom you have called for your purpose. Protect their families, and we pray that their work will build up the Body of Christ and bring glory to you. Amen.

Foolster41 said...

Hmm. Samatar apears to have left. Maybe he at least saw my post and will when he sees it condemn Osama, Kim and others who make anti-semetic remarks or call for the mistreatment of and violence agaist non-muslims.

this topic is a good example of how even those on the same side of opposing Islam will rebuke others who are incorrect, but I see precious little of that among muslims when they either call for or do actions of violence, subjugation, or genocidal anti-semetism. Instead if seems Muslims spend their time whining about "Islamaphobia" when kuffir truthfully report on calls and actions of violence, subjegation and anti-semetism.

Aletheya said...

We hate Islam but love Muslims.


Because Islam leads people to hell and Muslims are people whom Jesus died for too. And they deserve to know that.

I know some Christians don't like the fact that some of us argue/debate with Muslims.

How, by telling Jesus' death and resurrection to save them (Muslims) will win them to Christ if the false prophet they believe in told them that that never happened?

We have to show them from their own sources that what they believe has no proof/truth whatsoever. Then only can we explain to them what Jesus came to do.

Samatar Mohamed said...


I had no idea that Osama and Kim held this position and I won't believe it unless I hear them say it or you provide me with some sort of evidence that they believe that non muslims should be killed or attacked offensively. If they do hold that position then let it be known that I completely disagree with and condemn that position.

Tom ta tum Tom said...


I don't tell you and David often enough how much I appreciate the both of you and all that you do through . Please forgive my absence - there is SO much going on. But I want you to know that it is most likely the two of you (and Nabeel & little Negeen) that helped me get to the place of wanting to help Muslims escape from Islam as opposed to wanting only to export them to the Saudi desert.
SO MUCH is owed to you guys. Maybe you get tired of me saying it but you all have contributed far more than you know. I WILL send a little money but I wish I could show you the real worth of your efforts. In time, either history will recognize your contributions or, our Savior Christ will pronounce, "Well done, good & faithful servants..."



Usama said...

Christian Response:

I love you Rambo! I hope God saves you. I hope you repent and turn to Christ!

Muslim Response:

May God freeze the blood in your veins. May God give you cancer! May God strike off your head!

Dk said...

Personally I think Cornholio is on the wrong team. His fundamentalist nature ought to be used as a banner for Islam and a great dawah.

It is very good to see David put the K.O on even on his christian brother when needed.

As for DAvidsmountain I don't know exactly what his position, but perhaps he would not refrain from eating pork and not selling out his values. On the other hand Wood says it's not a big deal, it's just no pork for one dinner, who really cares?.

Either of these options are fine. Maybe if you were a pork extremist and only ate pork it would then be disloyal to sell out this value. But otherwise go with the lamb brah.

Sam I read that rebuttal. Are you seriously responding to that? C'mon be serious. Not one cohesive point in that article. The article is so ambiguous it's hard to tell where the rebuttal lay in. I mean "some exegetea understood it like me, therefore this is not an interpolation, you have broaden your raise of interpolation , you should mean intepretation" yadda yadda. what on??????? This is purely semantics. And he forgot to mention the exegetes who adopted his view were either not consistent within theirn work works and were also LATE sources. Clearly showing signs of AD HOC, in the fact of being literate.

You are right Muslims think that any response is a rebuttal. But truth is will always be this way.

Joe Bradley said...

I am going to hazard a guess that if Nabeel were Jewish and had a similar scriptural objection to pork products*, Mr. Woods would probably show the same sensitivity and take the same course of action. Davidsmountain, would you raise the allegation of "Zionist Appeasement" if this were the case? After all, the Jews had the prohibition on swine long before Islam arrived on the worldly scene.

However, if I were dining with Rambo John or any other jerk of similar ilk, I would be more than happy to shove a pork chop sandwich down his throat.

*Leviticus 11:7-8; Deuteronomy 14:8

minoria said...

I have been thinking about David's children and it ocurred to me last night that there are saintly Christian who have a solid reputation for miraculous healing of others.

I don't know any names but it would be a good idea to contact them.I am certain they would be able to help David's children.

It is just a thought,but I believe it is worth trying.Such people exist.

Osama Abdallah said...

So what exactly is your point here, David? That Muslims don't believe in Jesus, and that they curse him? Now you know that's a lie.

Osama Abdallah

Radical Moderate said...

@Osama "put his foot in his mouth" Abdullah.

I have recordings of Muslim admins in Paltalk who know their Koran, hadeeth and deen.

I have personaly heard them laugh, and mock saying things like "Jesus was a homosexual and practiced in homosexual acts during the last supper. And it gets worse from there.

There excuse since they are talking about Jesus and ISa its ok and guess what they cite Islamic Fatwa's to back up what they are sying.

Btw one of those Muslim admins who was the most vile "Muslim Knight" had a stroke a few months ago. He don't sound so good.

Foolster41 said...

@Osama: Can you at least condemn the words of Ramdo John, since you are so peaceful and moderate? Can you acknowledged it is Muslims like this who are abusive and violent that are the primary problem, and not reporting truthfully on them?

Deleting said...

Foolster41 said...
@Osama: Can you at least condemn the words of Ramdo John, since you are so peaceful and moderate?

No he can't. Sad but true.

Anthony Rogers said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anthony Rogers said...


The "bold" feature is to emphasize or make something stand out. If you make everything bold then nothing stands out. Allow me to illustrate how this works with the following example :

It is quite telling that a guy who loves to condemn people in the west for being "pornified" would completely gloss over the despicable things said by one of his co-religionists about another man's wife. This is sheer HYPOCRISY on your part.

Do you see how that works? Now let's see you give it a try.

Anthony Rogers

Anonymous said...

"@Osama: Can you at least condemn the words of Ramdo John, since you are so peaceful and moderate? Can you acknowledged it is Muslims like this who are abusive and violent that are the primary problem, and not reporting truthfully on them?"

I doubt it Osama doesn't even have the guts to admit he 1 Corintheans 5:5 yet

Cristo Te Ama said...

I don't understand about this whole thing of eating pork? what does it have to be with Nabeel? Did he become Muslim again? if so, it doesn't matter, you can eat with him and invite him to your home, as Jesus ate with all kind of ppl... so i see nothing wrong if David ate with a Muslim, jesus loves him too, even when he has returned to the darkness of Islam.(if he did so)

David Wood said...

He's talking about ten years ago, when Nabeel and I were in college. We were best friends. I mentioned in a debate that when Nabeel and I would go out to eat, I wouldn't order pork (in obedience to 1 Corinthians 9). Apparently, according to some of the harsher counter-jihadists, these attempts to avoid offense (so as not to hinder discussions of more important issues) were complete capitulations to Islam. Further, even by being friends with a Muslim, I was bowing to his ideology.

That's the story, anyway.

Foolster41 said...

Part 1/4: Introduction and Osama.

@Samatar: So you didn't see my post in which you posted immediately after (, and did not see these numerous examples of your co-coreligionists behaving badly? I find this very hard to believe.

Osama has on a number of occasions made anti-semetic remarks, and false conspiracy theories ( and lies about Isreal (, (9/11 an inside job, zionists/CIA are really the ones commiting terror in the name of Islam, Isreal is "occupying" land). He praised Hamas as being good on keeping crime low, while frequently ignoring their calls and actions of genocidal against Jews and refusing to denounce the same. He openly called for violence against Coptic Christians ("bloodbath") or at least peace if they behave like good dimmis and don't share their faith (what he falsely, and bigotedly calls pornography and gambling). (

He aproves of severe wife beating (which was a complete topic.) (

Osama has falsely slandered me by saying I want hate crimes to happen against muslims, only because I cited a FBI report in which it says hate crimes against muslims don't happen all that often. He also made dishonest statments that completely misrepresented 1 Chron 5:5, and song of Solomon which I never saw any muslim correct him on.

Foolster41 said...

Part 3/4: Kangaroo

Kangaroo supports the modern carrying out of the death penalty for apostasy, if carried out by the rulers. (

Foolster41 said...

Part 4/4: Final

It is good though that you thuroughly and unequiviqually condemn these actions by your co-religionsists. I look foreward to your more careful reading of this blog in the future and you rebuking directly these muslims when they make such statements, or correcting illogical or untrue statements in the future. I hope I have left you with some food for thought.


Foolster41 said...

@aaron: Shhh! Now brave Elmo has to run and hide again, like he does every time 1 Chron 5:5, slanders against me, or Song of Solomon is mentioned!

Anonymous said...

osama not admitting he made such a stupid mistake already shows what sort of person he is and only further proves our case against him and his Allah.

illuzillu said...

I am not really surprised. I know the muslims very well.

Michael Schueckler said...

@Davidsmountain .^.

You said,
What good are all your formulated arguments, truths and knowledge, brought to bear against Islam, if it falls on deaf ears? Do you really think you can argue against an article of faith? Will your voice and reason rise above the "perfect word"? I say for the most part David, it's an exercise in futility and your shows with Muslim guests, mostly bears it out!

I almost agree with your statement. Why do I have a level of agreement? Because we are told in scripture that the heart of man is wicked.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it? - Jeremiah 17:9

It also shows us that the world has blinded them from the truth.

In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. - 2 Corinthians 4:4

So yes, it seems utterly hopeless to witness to them.

Scripture commands us to witness to these hopeless people.

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inb the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. - Matthew 28:19-20

So why are we commanded to do something that is hopeless?

Scripture has the answer.

But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” - Matthew 19:26.

You see, we are commanded to preach the gospel because God will perform a miracle. He will do what man cannot. Man cannot preach adequately enough to soften a heart. Another man cannot soften his own heart to hear the message.

I say again, a miracle takes place. God softens the heart to make him able to hear the word spoken.

And I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, - Ezekiel 11:19

This regeneration of the heart of man by the Holy Spirit is a key difference between Christianity and any other religion. Salvation is all of God and not by man.

Only by the Grace of God.
Only by the work of Christ.
Only by Word of God.
Only by Faith in Christ.
Only for His glory.

Foolster41 said...


Oops. I noticed part 2 on Kim was skipped.

When David pointed out violent teachings of the Koran, Kim, instead of showing how it was wrong or condemning it, actually praised it, and called moderite muslims "annoying", meaning she fully embrases the unmoderiate, violent interpertation of the Koran.

Kim defended the persecution of copts, for the reason of wanting to drink wine (what happened to sharia being only for muslims?)

Kimn facetiously heiled hitler to imply people here are Nazis, instead of using civil debate.

Kim aproves of the the supression of non-muslims, and the teaching of anti-Christian and anti-Jewish propaganda. (It's true when you know false religions are out there to destroy society.)


1MoreMuslim, another muslim (though one you din't direct name would be included in "any muslim here" has defamd Isreal as arrsting Christians, and saying the police in Dearbourne acted like Isreal (as if it is Isreal, and not the muslim nations that restrict minority religous rights).


As I said, I simply don't beleive you when you say you've never seen these cases of misbehavior on the part of your fellow muslims. I think you saw and you've ignored it, because to critisize a fellow muslim in front of Kuffir is to show weakness. if I'm wrong, then I hope you will be as I said, more careful to read what your co-religionists say and call them on their hatred and dishonesty!

Ermac said...

Sam, David, Nabeel and Nageen (and anyone else on your esteemed team that I forgot). I just want you guys to know that I have followed your blog and Sam's blog and now ABNSAT for the last 1.5 to 2 years. I know by Islam's very definition of "jihad" that you place your very lives and those of your family in harms way every day due to an intense desire to reveal the truth about what Satan presents as light. I appreciate that and hope and pray that despite such vulgar but typical attacks perpetrated by this religion that you continued to be protected, strengthened and increased in the Lord. I'm sorry for this idiot, though I think it's important that you continue to post the facts and fight through this. People need to see the spirit of Islam for what it is, so that they stop confusing it with the Spirit of Truth. It is not.

Complete Newb said...

This site is CHRISTIAN? Jesus, Christianity is almost as dumb as Islam. Who the hell are Christians to throw stones?

Anthony Rogers said...

What a complete newb.