Saturday, December 3, 2011

Who Is Abdullah ibn Sa'd ibn Abi Sarh?

This video brings up one of the most embarrassing stories in the early Muslim sources. Abdullah ibn Sa'd ibn Abi Sarh converted to Islam and served as one of Muhammad's scribes. However, when Muhammad started letting him edit the Qur'an and add his own words, Abdullah realized that Muhammad was a false prophet.



For more on Abdullah, see these articles:
"Sources of the Qur'an: Contributions by Abdullah ibn Sa'd ibn Abi Sarh"
"How Allah Killed His Prophet: From Inspiration to Expiration"

26 comments:

Galafrin said...

There the Sirat tells that Mahomet lied to his closest friend in order to get apostat Abdullah executed.

If it sounds so complete non-sens or cowardice, then this sort of prophet has to be debated.

TAREK said...

Hi Dr David and Brother Sam Shamoun! Thanks for all the job you are doing.
This video is a packet of information. Waaoooo Bravo..... Bravo. Waiting to hear how Mr. Osama will respond to this one after failling miserablely to respond to the previous video.
I'm still waiting to hear from him to tell me to whom does Allah is praying for his false prophete?

Dr David and Brother Sam Shamoun, I'd like to use this opportunity to let you know that I will support you with some euro to help paying your bills. Please I will start from January PLEASE GOD.

MAY YAHWEH BLESS you all IN JESUS' NAME AMEN.

Kim said...

Nice story. Now where's the historical authenticity for that?

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Sarh/

SGM said...

Yet another nail in the coffin of mohammad’s false prophet hood. This illustration actually sends shivers down my spine how brutal mohammad was. How can one read his biography and not be terrified. No wonder terror and Islam are so intertwined. And yet we are told that Islam is so wonderful and peaceful? Really??? Just say that Mohammad is not a true prophet in any moslem country and find out what terror means.

But I am positive that Osama, Kim and other moslems has an explanation for this. Let me guess, 1: Christians don’t understand these so peaceable events of Mohammad’s life, or 2: these are not authentic narrations, or 3: there is violence in the bible, or 4 and most commonly used: it has already been refuted on a website, 5: you are taking it out of context, etc, etc…..

Still waiting for Mr. Osama to tell us how he would like to die as a martyr. Not to change the subject but I was wondering if Mr. Osama can also tell us if Allah promise moslems to fulfill their desires. We Christians has God’s promise: Matt 7:7, “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.” and in Luke 10:11, “For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.”

All honor and glory be to our Lord, Savior and Reedemer Lord Jesus Christ. And yes, His is God.

David Wood said...

Hey everyone, Kim's back!

Kim, when we post evidence against Islam, you usually link to a sad, feeble attempt to address the argument, often one which simply throws out your earliest sources.

But in your response to my video "Islam's Secret Santa," you assured us that Muslims have refuted my argument, without linking to a single response.

I'm still waiting. Since I am aware of no response to the argument in my video, I'd like to see your links. If you can't provide some, I now have decisive proof that you are making things up. And what would this tell us about your real views?

Mike A Robinson said...

with this Joe Smith must battle hard to beat back Mo for the most irrational and wicked false prophet award.

SGM said...

Dear Kim,
When I posted my comments, your’s want there yet. How did I guess that you are going to go with one of my 5 perdictions. You picked number 2 to refute.
Well, the authenticity of this is your own muslim literature. No Chrisitan or jew wrote it. Are you going to tell us now that the best moslems of all time, who wrote these books, were somehow bewitched by a jew like your mohammad? Some jew must have taken a hair of such pious moslems from their hair brush and cast a spell to tell these lies. How could these moslems tell such a lie? But wait, I just remembered something. Actually satan was helping these pious moslems to sin so that they could not be wipped out by allah. Remember, the more you moslems sin, the better it is for mankind so that Allah could not wipe us out.

Koala Bear said...

@Kim - your website link is pathetic. None of these islam boards actually answer the question or haven't you noticed that? Multiple paragraphs skirting around the actual issue. How much longer is it going to take for you to realise how much deceit there is in islam?? Same goes for you Osama (who no doubt is reading this).

John 8:24 said...

Kim, Samatar, Osama and any other Muslims out there,

We are STILL waiting for your refutation and NOT empty talk and lies.

Repost from 'Islam's Secret Santa':
http://answeringmuslims.com/2011/11/islams-secret-santa.html

John 8:24 said: "I am eager to see how Kim, Samatar, Osama and other Muslims respond to this."

Kim said: "Old refuted stuffs."

Samatar said: "From the hadith, what I get from it is to show the importance of repentance to Allah (swt). I don't think that any scholars would take it to mean that Allah (swt) actually needs sinners, but to emphasize the importance of repentance..."

Osama said: "The same can be said about the Bible...blah blah blah...Islam came to restore the original Faith... blah blah blah... I wouldn't take Islam so carelessly and so lightly like that, David...blah blah blah...You should study Islam more honestly and more objectively...blah blah blah..Herman Cain, falling apart on his sex scandals...blah blah blah.. Long live Islam...blah blah blah..Islam is indeed the ONE AND ONLY Solution...blah blah blah..The Islamophobe disbelievers have nothing but crookedness..blah blah blah"

Ha ha ha...Are these the best arguments you Muslims have got? How pathetic!!!

D335 said...

Q 23:14 last part,

"then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah , the best of creators."

BOOM !!!!
so Allah is one of the creators!

This "abdul" really stroke the heart of the matter! And since Muhammad can't read nor write, no change was made to take down the verse! The pagan abdul used a serious form of "shirk" by using the most easy-to-spot trap.

Now there's a hailstorm call for many muslims to rebuke the idea of why Sarh needed to be eliminated. One can say, hey Allah is the best of schemers, but then again, scheming is one of Allah's trait! as well as "the best of the creators!".
The problem is, the divine entity of God is being "the creator" and when Quran advertised as "clear" about it that means pre-supposing that there are more than 1 divine creators actually is not a total misconception.

But then again, you will not need a capable set of eyes and a sound mind when your heart is already hardened.

D335

Zack_Tiang said...

Great video. =D

minoria said...

I don't know any Muslims personally and I have noticed Yahya Snow has not posted anything in his blog for almost 2 months,I hope he is alright and nothing bad has happened to him,

that he is only on vacation.

One argument used by SHABIR ALLY is that if a HADITH,even AUTHENTIC,I suppose,CONTRADICTS the KORAN then it must be REJECTED.

That's ok with me but I think it is even better to say the OBVIOUS.

Muhammad was just a MAN so he NOW and THEN CONTRADICTED himseld on X THEME.

But Muslims for some reason can NOT take that logical step,it is too much for them,I dont know why,somehow Muhammad must be INFALLIBLE in ALL he said.

Here is a good article about St.FRANCIS of ASSISI and RAYMOND LULLE,the Catalan philospher and writer and one of the greatest of the Middle Ages and their experience with MUSLIMS.

It is in FRENCH,translate using GOOGLE TRANSLATE

http://translate.google.com/

http://www.avraidire.com/2010/11/francois-dassise-raymond-lulle-et-la-conversion-des-musulmans/

goethechosemercy said...

Quote:
If it sounds so complete non-sens or cowardice, then this sort of prophet has to be debated.
end

More to the point:
absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Deleting said...

Kim,
The article you posted doesn't do what you think it does, ie. clear mohamamed.
What it does is try to establish that Sarh was an apostate and then returned to islam and then said he 'may have been a scribe for mohammed'.
This is misdirection and misrepresentation of the facts to show Islam in a positive light.
Would I find the same explanation by a different muslim apologist writer?
Probably not. I might find something similar to Osama's likeness as in 'The jews did it' or 'the christians did it'.
At least i can give props to the author (this time) for not blaming the jews or christians for this verse.

minoria said...

Hello Curly,
I remember you have said you cannot hear very well.But I found a video that has CApTIONS.

Have you heard of JOEL RICHARDSON who thinks the ANTICHRIST will be a MUSLIM.

First his book "The Islamic Anchrist",with another name is here,free:

http://answering-islam.org/Authors/JR/Future/index.htm

NOW FOR THE VIDEO

It is a show by SID ROTH,Jewish an a believer in Jesus,who interviews JOEL RICHARDSON

http://youtu.be/PlwhDflAsPI

TO GET THE WORDS

At the BOTTON to the RIGHT of the VIDEO you will see:

The letters CC,click on that

The you CLICK on the words TRANSCRIBE AUDIO

Then click on the word OK
and you will have the words of the show.

minoria said...

Section 2

Hello Curly,

Here is another SID ROTH video with another JOEL RICHARDSON interview "The Return is Near",about Islam

You can gets the captions the same wa I told before,go to CC and click,then click on TRANSCRIBE AUDIO,then on OK

http://youtu.be/-xPuZeBAH34

MORE STILL

Here is the FIRST Sid Roth interview of Joel Richardson,you can read the words also using CC,transcribe audio.

http://youtu.be/9Z_jkK3zdng

ANOTHER ONE

Here is GLEN BECK'S "Islam's 12th Imam" with JOEL RICHARDSON

Again,click on CC and transcribe audio.

http://youtu.be/FOeZsnHMMlE

minoria said...

Section 3

Hello Curly

I found a DAVID WOOD vs SAMI ZAATARI debate on "Was Muhammad a prophet?"

You can read the debate there also,click on CC ,then

on TRANSCRIBE AUDIO

then on OK

http://youtu.be/Rjr_pcOGv-s

Samatar Mohamed said...

Just so you guys know, surah 23 was revealed in Mecca, not Medina. You can simply do a search to figure it out. Therefore, the authenticity of the hadith comes into question.

Foolster41 said...

@Samatar: Oh, so the violent passages of Medina DO abrogate the peaceful ones of Mecca now?

Deleting said...

Samatar, where's is the hadith (sahih only please) that says Sarh retook the shahadah and became a good muslim once again?

Samatar Mohamed said...

@Foolster

Did you watch the video, and read the hadith. It says that Muhammad (pbuh) was telling abdullah ibn sa'd to right down a verse of surah 23. However, this cannot be true, because surah 23 was already revealed to Muhammad (pbuh) when he was in Mecca, and before he went to Medina. Therefore, the hadiths authenticity comes into question, as it is exclaiming that Muhammad (pbuh) was telling Abdullah to write down the verses as it was being revealed to him. But since it had already been revealed to him, then it is clearly an unauthentic hadith.

Billy said...

Samatar said: “…surah 23 was revealed in Mecca, not Medina. Therefore, the authenticity of the hadith comes into question”.

You seem to suggest that all hadiths regarding Mohammad’s Meccan revelations are unreliable. At this rate Samatar, you may have to become a Quran only Muslim.

The Berean Search said...

Samatar,

Just because Surat-al-Mu'minun (23) is classified as a "Makkan Surah" this does not mean that all Ayat in the Surah were revealed in Mecca. As any Muslim with a basic knowledge of Ulum al Qur'an knows, there are Surah with mixed Ayat (some Makkia and some Medinia). Some of your scholars are of the opinion that the 23rd Surah was the last revealed in Mecca, making mixed location of revelation all the more likely. This fits right in with the narrations cited in the video which shows ibn Abi Sarh making hijrah to follow Muhammad shortly before the Ayah in Question. On top of that, you are working completely backwards when you decide that such-and-such a Surah was revealed in Mecca and having that cause you to throw out a Hadith narration. Rather, the Ahadith is what informs a Muslim when specific parts of the Qur'an were revealed.

Here is some information from sunnipath.com that provides some elementary introduction to Ulum al Qur'an:

"Suras of the Qur'an have also been classified, according to their origin, into Makkan and Madinan suras.

A sura is said to be of Makkan origin, when its beginning was revealed in the Makkan phase, even if it contains verses from Madina.

A sura is said to be of Madinan origin, when its beginning was revealed in the Madinan phase, even if it has verses from the Makkan period in its text. [Mabani, in GdQ, 1, p.59.]

The following 85 suras are, according to Zarkashi, [Zarkashi, B.: Al-burhan fi 'ulum al-Qur’an, Cairo, 1958,Vol. 1,p.193.] of Makkan origin:

96, 68, 73, 74, 111, 81, 87, 92, 89, 93, 94, 103, 100, 108, 102, 107, 109, 105,113,114,112,53,80,97,91,85,95, 106,101,75, 104,77,50,90,86,54,38,7,72,36,25,35, 19,20, 56,26,27, 28, 17, 10, 11, 12, 15, 6, 37, 31, 34, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 51, 88, 18, 16, 71, 14, 21, 23, 32, 52, 67, 69, 70, 78, 79, 82, 84,

There is a difference of opinion as to what was last revealed in Makka. Some say, following Ibn 'Abbas, that it was Sura 29 (al-ankabut); others say Sura 23 (al-mu'minun); still others say Sura 83 (al-mutaffifin). Some believe that Sura 83 is actually Madinan."

According to your sources, and a proper Islamic method of determining Surah chronology we are left with the conclusion that Surah 23 is of mixed origin cotaining some Makkia and some Medinia content.

Ahadith tells you when Ayat of the Qur'an were revealed.

Search 4 Truth said...

It doesnt matter how logical, rational, truthful, factual your information is. If Samatar or any Muslim for that matter does not want to accept the inofrmation they will find some irrational reason to disregard it!

Thats the insanity of Islam and the Muslim mind!

He knows it will undermine Mohamed and Islam. So he will say anything to discredit it. Even if it exposes him as lacking any intellectual integrity!

We have seen it time and time again with every Muslim that responds! And Samatar is one of the most blatantly guilty of these subjective and irrational; excuses!

Nakdimon said...

@Samatar,

Sorry, but as The Berean Search has already pointed out the hadith is not unauthentic on the grounds that you want to declare it as such. Adding to that is that fact that the criteria for authenticity in islamic tradition is a shoddy one to begin with.

Having said that though, you now have to deal with the hadith and the fact that a scribe changed and edited the recitations of your prophet to his liking which is now presented to you as divine revelation. As a result of that he left Islam only to return to the religion to save his own life.

Any comments?

Be Yourself said...

Oh noooo. This video was deleted :( Please where can i see this?????