Thursday, December 29, 2011

Somalia Sees Alarming Increase in Rapes

And Muslims tell us that Islam will save the West from immorality.


MOGADISHU, Somalia—The girl’s voice dropped to a hush as she remembered the bright, sunny afternoon when she stepped out of her hut and saw her best friend buried in the sand, up to her neck.

Her friend had made the mistake of refusing to marry a Shabab commander. Now she was about to get her head bashed in, rock by rock.

“You’re next,” the Shabab warned the girl, a frail 17-year-old who was living with her brother in a squalid refugee camp.

Several months later, the men came back. Five militants burst into her hut, pinned her down and gang-raped her, she said. They claimed to be on a jihad, or holy war, and any resistance was considered a crime against Islam, punishable by death.

“I’ve had some very bad dreams about these men,” she said, having recently escaped the area they control. “I don’t know what religion they are.”

Somalia has been steadily worn down by decades of conflict and chaos, its cities in ruins and its people starving. Just this year, tens of thousands have died from famine, with countless others cut down in relentless combat. Now Somalis face yet another widespread terror: an alarming increase in rapes and sexual abuse of women and girls.

The Shabab militant group, which presents itself as a morally righteous rebel force and the defender of pure Islam, is seizing women and girls as spoils of war, gang-raping and abusing them as part of its reign of terror in southern Somalia, according to victims, aid workers and United Nations officials. Short of cash and losing ground, the militants are also forcing families to hand over girls for arranged marriages that often last no more than a few weeks and are essentially sexual slavery, a cheap way to bolster their ranks’ flagging morale.

But it is not just the Shabab. In the past few months, aid workers and victims say, there has been a free-for-all of armed men preying upon women and girls displaced by Somalia’s famine, who often trek hundreds of miles searching for food and end up in crowded, lawless refugee camps where Islamist militants, rogue militiamen and even government soldiers rape, rob and kill with impunity. (Read more.)

37 comments:

Radical Moderate said...

To Quote Osama Abdulla on another thread.

"What do you expect".

Its not like these Muslims where wishing Christains a Merry Christmas

Osama Abdallah said...

Somalia is a total mess. There is no government there. Plus, who told you that the rapes were done by Islamists? There are government soldiers (thugs like what happeend in Libya) there, and even Christian Ethiopian soldiers.

Somehow, David Wood expects to see ALL MUSLIMS PERFECT. Thanks David, but I don't think that's fair :). Nonetheless, Islam still maintains a great deal of stability even in "countires" that are ruled by war lords and thugs. Compare that with places like Mexico, where there is a strong government there, and an army, and still you would not DARE to stray to any remote area there. At least in Somalia, there is NO GOVERNMENT, and it's still, despite the increase in crimes and rapes, much safer than pretty much most of Latin America's drug infested countries.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

SGM said...

Rape, Murder, subjugation, slavery etc etc etc, this is Islam for you. I wish this would be the headline news of every paper which shows atrocities committed by Moslems every single day, so that the west can see the true picture of Islam. On a sad note, this is just one news of many that made it to the media. These type of news are 10 times worst. An iceberg is always bigger below the surface then above the surface.

And Osama Abdalla & Kim thinks that sharia is the answer to all evil. It can’t bring peace in all of the Moslem countries in the world and they think that it is going to bring peace and morality in the west. LOL, moslems shout from the top of their lungs how good sharia is but they can't even implement it 100% in a 97 percent moslem majority country. I have a challenge for Mr. Osama and Kim. First show us your own house hold (Islamic nations) in perfect order, then come and preach Islam to the west. I guarantee you (and you can take it to the bank), it can never be accomplished. You can whitewash evil as much as you want, but you can never change its nature. It will always show its true colors.

Outside of JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD, we can not have peace. Especially peace with God.

SGM said...

@ Osama Abdallah,

“Nonetheless, Islam still maintains a great deal of stability even in "countires" that are ruled by war lords and thugs.”

Response:

Mr. Osama, with all due respect, what are you smoking? Do you know what “thug” means. Let me give you the definition of it, “a brutal ruffian or assassin”. These are the people who go and rape girls. And you are telling me that this is bringing stability in Somalia? Somalia is the worst country to live in at this point and you are comparing it to Mexico? Really!!! Just a suggestion, please have all the governments of Islamic countries made up of thugs, and may be then, you will have stability in all of Moslem countries. For right now, it seems like it is not working with out the thugs.

Joe Bradley said...

Osama Abdallah said...

"Somalia is a total mess. There is no government there."

Gee Osama, WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF ISLAM!

Then He Asks . . .

"Plus, who told you that the rapes were done by Islamists?"

Why it was the New York Times. Notice that "Islamist Militants" took top billing in their list:

"But it is not just the Shabab. In the past few months, aid workers and victims say, there has been a free-for-all of armed men preying upon women and girls displaced by Somalia’s famine, who often trek hundreds of miles searching for food and end up in crowded, lawless refugee camps where Islamist militants, rogue militiamen and even government soldiers rape, rob and kill with impunity."

Osama Abdallah said...

The Palestinians' Example will shed light for you (YOU BE THE JUDGE):

To further prove my point that Islam indeed provides stability even in places where there is no government, I'll give you the example of the Palestinians:

1- Before the Oslo Peace Accords, the Palestinians, as you all know, used to live under 100% of the Israeli government's authority and control.

2- There was virtually no police and no protection for Palestinians against other bad Palestinians, such as gangs, murderers, theives, etc...

3- THE BLACK PANTHERS, which are now modern-day Hamas, emerged to police the people. There were groups of them in every village, and their weapons were the axes. They executed Justice among Palestinians through primitive means. This in turn, kept the entire STATELESS NATION of Palestinians under reasonable control and stability.

Compare this with your American gangs that emerged. They too came for good cause, initially. But becasue they lack Islam and the discipline of Islam, they strayed very quickly into evil, drugs, theft and violence. Our militias kept the whole nation safe and stable, when the Israelies worked so hard *************to flood the Palestinians with drugs and inner instability and violence. Our Black Panthers ruled with an iron fist and stopped the Israelies' conspiracy and evil dead in its track. Today, Palestinians are not known to be drug addicts. They're known to be very conservative.

Look at Gaza today. It too is a stateless state. Hamas, a militia group, rules it, and they rule by the Shariah Law over there. It's among the VERY POOREST PLACES IN THE WORLD, BUT YET, AMONG THE SAFEST IN THE WORLD AS WELL! How many rape cases and theft and drug gangs and cartels do you hear coming from Gaza? None!

******NOW COMPARE THIS WITH THE USA, Central and Latin Americas! Look at the drug cartels. Look at the dismal failures the Christians and Christianity there are having. And the USA is getting more and more addicted to drugs as well.

There is just simply no comparison when it comes to comparing Islam and it's GREAT VALUES with your failing religion.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

SGM said...

@ Radical Moderate,

In another thread you posted your reply in response to Osama’s question, “"If this is so, then what do you exactly expect here????"

I expect a father not to kill his daughter even if she wears a Bikini in front of him or wishes a Christian a Merry Christmas.

I expect a Husaband not to kil his wife even if that wife has left him.

I expect a brother in law not to kill his sister and brother in law.

I expect a uncle not to kill his nieces and nephews.

I expect these things from Christians, Jews, Atheists, Hindu's, Budists, Animists and any other "ISM" that someone may or may not follow.

Evidently Osama that is to much to expect from Muslims.

Response:
Excellent point brother. As matter of fact, in no other “ISM” you will find people burning religious places like churches of opposite religions except in Islam. In no other “ISM”, you will find people subjugating people from other religions except Islam. In no other “ISM” you will find people raping young girls from other religions except in Islam. In no other “ISM” you will find prophets marrying seven year old girls except Islam. In not other “ISM” you will find sex outside of marriage allowed except in Islam. In no other “ISM” you will find prophets marrying their own daughter in laws except in Islam. In no other “ISM” you will find blasphemy laws except in Islam. In no other “ISM” you will find people of other religions called vilest of creatures except in Islam .

And yet, Mr. Osama, Kim and others like them are so happy to be part of Islam. How can one not see such obvious evils. I believe, unless the Lord open our eyes, we can not.

D335 said...

it's like a never ending reminder:

THE FRUIT OF ISLAM!

in comparison with:

THE FRUIT OF CHRISTIANITY!

But then again, we can all see what would be debated out of that context.

Osama Abdallah said...

THE "NOT WITHOUT MY DAUGHTER" MOVIE:

Go and watch the "Not without my daughter" movie. At the very end, when the woman finally managed to escape with her daughter from Iran, and had to go through the remote areas of Iran, and walk long distances on foot, with stranger men, in remote areas between the borders of Iraq and Iran, NOT ONLY were the woman and her daughter unharmed, but the woman's jewlery was given back to her in FULL! This is a real life story based on the testimony of the American woman and her daughter, which the movie was based on as well.

If the woman was in Centeral or Latin America, then her body and her daughter's body would've probably been stuffed with drugs. This of course not before she and her daughter would have to endure brutal rape!

Again, there is just simply no comparison between the Muslims and you, PERIOD!!

You might find rotten fruits here and there from among the Muslims, but you can never deny that the overwhelming majority of the Muslims are good people, regardless of how poor the neighborhoods they live in are. They're almost always reasonably safe. Your ghetto neighborhoods are disasterous! You wouldn't even dare to walk into them, even here in the USA.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Foolster41 said...

"Look at Gaza today"
A wonderful place, committing genocide and terror against the Jews! Great example!

SGM said...

@ Osama,

“There was virtually no police and no protection for Palestinians against other bad Palestinians, such as gangs, murderers, theives, etc...”

Can you tell us who these bad Palestinians were? Are these not Moslems? I have never heard of any Christian group in Palestine that goes on rampage, commint rape and suicide bombings.

“Compare this with your American gangs that emerged. They too came for good cause, initially.”

Can you please enlighten me which gang in America was formed to help the poor and to take care of the sick and needy? To take care of the widows.
I have never heard of any gang in America that was formed for such purposes. Which history book are you reading?

And what good cause Black Panthers have or had? To take care of the widows? Really???

“Look at Gaza today. It too is a stateless state. Hamas, a militia group, rules it, and they rule by the Shariah Law over there. It's among the VERY POOREST PLACES IN THE WORLD, BUT YET, AMONG THE SAFEST IN THE WORLD AS WELL!”

Response:

By your own mouth you have admitted that Gaza is ruled by Shariah. And all this time you have been telling us that there is no moslem country that has Shariah implemented. If it is ruled by Shariah, why is it so poor. Does not Shariah get rid of poverty? It has not done any good there and you are telling us that it will help us here in the west. Is it going to take another sixteen hundered years to produce any good? And Safest place in the world? LOL, with all due respect, what are you smoking?

You should watch the movie, “A Beautiful Mind”. How do you concoct such ideas?

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Osama

Oslo: Nearly all rapes are committed by Muslims!

According to a Norwegian police statistics from May 2011 all rapes committed in Oslo in the past five years were committed by immigrants „more non-west “origin. In the plain language the police speaks of Muslim perpetrators, because these originate almost exclusively from Arabic or north afrikansichen area.

More exactly: Between the years 2006 and 2010 in Oslo altogether 86 sexual encroachments and rapes were announced to the police. In 83 cases the perpetrator was not described as „west “. With the actual rapes even all perpetrators were not „western “. The victims were nearly always Norwegian.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_rHFKRwv5Y

Deleting said...

Osama, palestine is not even a real country. During the past fifty years if any arab country occupying it wanted to make it a separate country, that was the time to do it.
They didn't.
so-called 'palestinians' didn't complain until israel was established.
Had Germany, France, the USA, anyone occupied that area so long as they weren't jewish, you'd never hear a peep out of them.

And it's not relevant to the conversation.

Osama Abdallah said...

"@ Osama

Oslo: Nearly all rapes are committed by Muslims!

According to a Norwegian police statistics from May 2011 all rapes committed in Oslo in the past five years were committed by immigrants „more non-west “origin. In the plain language the police speaks of Muslim perpetrators, because these originate almost exclusively from Arabic or north afrikansichen area."

RESPONSE:

African immigrants are not mostly Muslims. MANY AFRICANS are Christians.
Also, how many real rape cases (not just an inappropriate touch, but an actual forced intercourse) are we talking about out of the 83 done by foreigners? To me, an assualt is not rape. It's an assualt, and it's punishable. But in Islam, rape is punished by death. So I can't equate the two together.

Your statement: "More exactly: Between the years 2006 and 2010 in Oslo altogether 86 sexual encroachments and rapes were announced to the police." actually supports my point. Notice 86 sexual encroachments ****AND RAPES****" So right there, we know that not all 86 or 83 cases were rapes. And 83 mixed cases in 4 years?????? How many rape cases happened in those years in the USA ALONE? 83 * 1000 perhaps? And in the North, Central and South Americas? The number of the entire Norwegian nation, perhaps???

"Most rape cases were done by Muslims" seems to me like an explosive and exagurated statement that is deceptive and empty. Now, I am not saying rape is not big deal! All I am saying, what are your numbers here? And your conclusion about them being ALL MUSLIMS IS QUITE OFF!

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

CristoTeAma said...

Osama misses the point (porpously?), the point isn't the number of rapes but the quran and hadith allowing it, just like they could rape the women the invaded (those which your right hand posses) and sell them etc etc. So we are not saying all rapist are muslims because that would be a lie, we are saying that somehow the hadit+quran manage to allow you to do WHAT WE WESTERN PEOPLE call RAPE, meaning having sex with a woman who doesn't want to have sex with us, by physical force, coercion, abuse of authority or with a person who is incapable of valid consent.And i think we must clarify first what is rape to Osama so he can understand what we are talking about here. So it's terrible that your religion allows such acts... But Allah knows best huh?...

Deleting said...

Cristo said 'terrible that your religion allows such acts... '
Worse still, they change the definition of rape, murder, honor, etc.
That's the thing that suck about islam. I don't think Osama will ever know the true definition of rape. Most muslims won't until they're behind bars.
Or being deported.
Personally I support deportation of violent criminals in Norway and Denmark who are immigrants.
I have a theory-and it's only just a theory-that if Europe and America started enforcing immigration policy and giving anyone from the middle east the boot who is apart of the jihad mentality and on expired visas, these middle eastern countries who hate the west wouldn't have as much time or resources to dedicate to jihad because they're new task is to find homes for all the displaced muslims coming back to their country.

Samatar Mohamed said...

@Christoteama

So islam allows men to have sex with women who do not want to have sex. If that was the case, then Islam definitely allows rape. However, the problem with your theory is that Islam does not allow this. Why do you put false teachings in Islam? And when you say that the Quran and authentic hadith allow rape, you should atleast bring one source where that is the case.

Quranic verse of the day (4:19)

يَـٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ لَا يَحِلُّ لَكُمۡ أَن تَرِثُواْ ٱلنِّسَآءَ كَرۡهً۬ا‌ۖ وَلَا تَعۡضُلُوهُنَّ لِتَذۡهَبُواْ بِبَعۡضِ مَآ ءَاتَيۡتُمُوهُنَّ إِلَّآ أَن يَأۡتِينَ بِفَـٰحِشَةٍ۬ مُّبَيِّنَةٍ۬‌ۚ وَعَاشِرُوهُنَّ بِٱلۡمَعۡرُوفِ‌ۚ فَإِن كَرِهۡتُمُوهُنَّ فَعَسَىٰٓ أَن تَكۡرَهُواْ شَيۡـًٔ۬ا وَيَجۡعَلَ ٱللَّهُ فِيهِ خَيۡرً۬ا ڪَثِيرً۬ا

O ye who believe! ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower ye have given them,― except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them, it may be that ye dislike a thing and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.

SGM said...

@ Osama,

“If the woman was in Centeral or Latin America, then her body and her daughter's body would've probably been stuffed with drugs.”

Response:

It has been years since I watched this movie but I do remember seeing it. If the woman was in Central or Latin America, this would not have happened to begin with. Have you ever heard of a non moslem of Central or Latin America kidnapping his wife and daughter and subjugating them against their will? No person in Cental or Latin America would have to kidnapped the wife and the daughter to begin with. It only happens in Islam. The premise of the movie is the wicked moslem husband who deceives his wife and daughter and takes them to Iran and then keeps them there against their will. Any one who watched this movie knows how horrible this acts was of the husband and his whole family. Obviously bad bad bad moslem if comparing against human rights.

Now on the other hand, yes there were some people who did help the woman and her daughter to escape and as you mentioned gave her jewelry back in the movie. I don’t remember this scene and don’t know if this was an actual fact or Hollywood just added to make it look good. But let me give you the benefit of the doubt and say that it is true. From human perspective, they did a good deed. However, from Islam’s perspective, they proved them selves to be bad moslems since they helped the women to rebel against the husband who was trying to be a good moslem husband. If they were good moslems they would have been supporting the husband not the woman. As you have mentioned in other posts, you might have even helped the husband to skin her alive.

So yes, you are absolutely correct, there is just simply no comparison between the Muslims and you, period. We don’t have to kidnap our wives and children and subjugate them. You moslems on the other hand do. According to the movie, there are hundered of other American girls kept in Iran against their will. Do you know of any case in the Christian world where they marry girls from other countries and then kidnap them and keep them against their will?

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Osama

The report states that they are from Africa, Middle East, and Asia. Nice try though.

And there is no punishment for raping or murdering a kafree under Islam. Nice try though!

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Samatar

We have proved you a liar countless times and that Islam does permit the rape of captives and slaves!

YOU JUST WONT ACCEPT THE REAlITY!

YOU ARE A LIAR AND HAVE NO INTEGRITY AT ALL.!

WE HAVE GONE OVER THIS TOPIC AD NAUSEA AND YOU HAVE BEEN REFUTED COUNTLESS TIMES! EVEN ACCORDING TO YOUR MODERN DAY SCHOLARS A SLAVE CANNOT DISOBEY THE MUSLIM MASTER.

YOU DISGUST ME AND ARE A COMPLETE AND TOTAL LAIR!


The Book of Allaah indicates that the sexual relationships that are permitted are only of two types, either marriage or those (women slaves) whom one’s right hand possesses.
Al-Umm, 5/43.
The wife has no right to object to her husband owning female slaves or to his having intercourse with them.
And Allaah knows best.
Ruling on having intercourse with a slave woman when one has a wife
Islam Q&A, Fatwa No. 10382, November 24, 2005

a slave woman does not have the right to refuse her master’s requests unless she has a valid excuse. If she does that she is being disobedient and he has the right to discipline her in whatever manner he thinks is appropriate and is allowed in sharee’ah.
And Allaah knows best.

Islam Q&A, Fatwa No. 33597

When I want a sex slave, I just go to the market and choose the woman I like and purchase her. I choose the man I like, one with strong muscles, or if I want a boy to work in the house, and so forth. I choose one, and pay him a wage. I employ him in a variety of different tasks, then I sell him afterwards. Now, the country that I entered and took captive its men and women--does it not also have money, gold, and silver? Is that not money? When I say that jihad--offensive jihad--with the well-known conditions that I already mentioned from the hadith of the Prophet (PBUH), from the hadith of Burayda in Sahih Muslim, the coffers of the Muslims were full. Would someone who is pious and intelligent--would he say that this is a type of poverty? Or that it is a type of wealth? No--this will fill the coffers of the Muslims with riches and wealth, but as we said, with the recognized conditions.
"When I want a sex slave, I just go to the market and choose the woman I like and purchase her"
Shaykh Abu-Ishaq al-Huwayni, al-Hikma TV, May 22, 2011

YOU ARE A LIAR AND HAVE ABSOLUTLY NO INTEGRITY AT ALL.

SAMATAR HOW DARE YOU LIE ABOUT ISLAM. SCUM BAG!

Search 4 Truth said...

@ OSAMA

Your referencing a movie as your evidence?

BWAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!

And just for your information. When they were fleeing, a man did try to molest her, but another man stopped him. Unless I am thinking of another film. But I am pretty sure.

Nice try. And dont use a film as an example, LOL! You really do reveal how incredibly stupid you are!

CristoTeAma said...

@SAMATAR
"However, the problem with your theory is that Islam does not allow this. Why do you put false teachings in Islam? And when you say that the Quran and authentic hadith allow rape, you should atleast bring one source where that is the case."

Sahih International
http://quran.com/4

And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse.

Al-Tafsir (Ibn Kathir)http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=685&Itemid=59#1

24. Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (slaves) whom your right hands possess


BUT if you check teh TAfsir (ibn Kathir) about the passage you qouted (S.4:19) you will see you are wrong with your interpretation of "inherit women against their will) Let's see
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=696&Itemid=59

(O you who believe! You are not permitted to inherit women against their will,) "Before, the practice was that when a man dies, his male relatives used to have the right to do whatever they wanted with his wife. If one of them wants, he would marry her, give her in marriage, or prevent her from marriage, for they had more right to her than her own family. Thereafter, this Ayah was revealed about this practice.

BUT AS YOU CAN SEE HERE this isn't the case we are talking about,yet as you see in S.4:24 raping slave women is allowd so i guess than when you say raping women isn't allowed in Islam you mean Muslim women? so i guess that makes things better huh?..
You doubt it is allowd? Let's see the Sahih Hadiths ( which so far i knew were autenthic.. but i guess you are like kim who says these things yet when we ask "how do you know which one is autenthic if they all are sahih and recognized for schollars etc etc" you won't answer at all.)

Continue..

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Samatar

Again you disgust me with your willful ignorance!

In the "Jihads" (Islamic wars) that took place, women were also, at times, taken as prisoners of war by the Muslim warriors. These women captives used to be distributed as part of the booty among the soldiers, after their return to Islamic territory. Each soldier was then entitled to have relations ONLY with the slave girl over whom he was given the RIGHT OF OWNERSHIP and NOT with those slave girls that were not in his possession. This RIGHT OF OWNERSHIP was given to him by the "Ameerul-Mu'mineen" (Head of the Islamic state.) Due to this right of ownership, it became lawful for the owner of a slave girl to have intercourse with her.
It may, superficially, appear distasteful to copulate with a woman who is not a man's legal wife, but once Shariah makes something lawful, we have to accept it as lawful, whether it appeals to our taste, or not; and whether we know its underlying wisdom or not. It is necessary for a Muslim to be acquainted with the laws of Shariah, but it is not necessary for him to delve into each law in order to find the underlying wisdom of these laws because knowledge of the wisdom of some of the laws may be beyond his puny comprehension. Allah Ta'ala has said in the Holy Quraan: "Wa maa ooteetum min al-ilm illaa qaleelan" which means, more or less, that, "You have been given a very small portion of knowledge". Hence, if a person fails to comprehend the underlying wisdom of any law of Shariah, he cannot regard it as a fault of Shariah (Allah forbid), on the contrary, it is the fault of his own perception and lack of understanding, because no law of Shariah is contradictory to wisdom.
Nevertheless, the wisdom underlying the permission granted by Shariah to copulate with a slave woman is as follows: The LEGAL possession that a Muslim receives over a slave woman from the "Ameerul-Mu'mineen" (the Islamic Head of State) gives him legal credence to have coition with the slave woman in his possession, just as the marriage ceremony gives him legal credence to have coition with his wife. In other words, this LEGAL POSSESSION is, in effect, a SUBSTITUTE of the MARRIAGE CEREMONY. A free woman cannot be 'possessed', bought or sold like other possessions; therefore Shariah instituted a 'marriage ceremony' in which affirmation and consent takes place, which gives a man the right to copulate with her. On the other hand, a slave girl can be possessed and even bought and sold, thus, this right of possession, substituting as a marriage ceremony, entitles the owner to copulate with her. A similar example can be found in the slaughtering of animals; that after a formal slaughtering process, in which the words, "Bismillahi Allahu Akbar" are recited, goats, cows, etc.; become "Halaal" and lawful for consumption, whereas fish becomes "Halaal" merely through 'possession' which substitutes for the slaughtering.
In other words, just as legal possession of a fish that has been fished out of the water, makes it Halaal for human consumption without the initiation of a formal slaughtering process; similarly legal possession of a slave woman made her Halaal for the purpose of coition with her owner without the initiation of a formal marriage ceremony.
Recently I saw a question on the status of women taken as prisoners during Jihad
Mufti Ebrahim Desai, Ask-Imam, Fatwa No. 10896

She has no RIGHTS! You fool!

CristoTeAma said...

Sahih Muslim, Volume 2, Number 3371
"We went out with Allah's messenger on the expedition to the Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing azl" (withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: "We are doing an act whereas Allah's messenger is amongst us; why not ask him?" So we asked Allah's messenger and he said: "It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born".

So they wanted to rape them but they were worry of leaving them prenant because that would be a poblem for the sale...

Sahih Bukhari, volume 9, Number 506
During the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relations with them without impregnating them. So they asked the prophet about coitus interruptus. The prophet said, "It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection".


Sahih Bukhari 3, Book 34, Number 432:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
that while he was sitting with Allah's Apostle he said, "O Allah's Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interruptus*?" The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence."


Sahih Bukhari, volume 5, Number 637
Narrated Buraida: The prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (part of the war booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, "Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)? When we reached the prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, "O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Do you hate him for he deserves more than that from the Khumus."

Sunan of Abu Dawud, volume 2, Number 2150
Abu Said al-Khudri said: "The apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse, "And all married women (are forbidden) unto your save those (captives) whom your right hand possesses". That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period."

Continues..

CristoTeAma said...

Sahih Muslims Book 008, Number 3432
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allaah her pleased with him) reported that at the Battle of Hanain Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allaah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allaah, Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (S 4. 24)"

Sahih Muslims Book 008, Number 3433:
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allaah be pleased with him) reported that Allaah's Prophet (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) sent a small army. The rest of the hadith is the same except this that he said: Except what your right hands possessout of them are lawful for you; and he did not mention" when their 'idda period comes to an end". This hadith has been reported on the authority of AbuSa'id (al-Khudri) (Allaah be pleased with him) through another chain of transmitters and the words are: They took captives (women) on the day of Autas who had their husbands. They were afraid (to have sexual intercourse with them) when this verse was revealed:" And women already married except those whom you right hands posses" (S 4. 24)

So Samatar, you said i had no prof at all that the quran or Hadiths allows what we western civilized ppl call "rape" (check above post to Osama for the definition of rape we have in the west)yet i have posted some interesting hadiths and some quran verses + schollars explanaition, proving that the sura you quoted doesn't forbid what we call rape, yet it seems i am MORE INTERESTED in knowing your religion, that i went to your tafsir to check the explanation of that sura. And if you say all those hadith i posted are "Jewish hadiths" or something like that, i suppose your schollar (medieval and modern) didn't know that. BUT YOU KNOW BEST...

Radical Moderate said...

@Osama

Now I have heard everyting from a Muslim. You run to a movie that most Muslims I have heard say that this movie is "All lies... Propoganda... etc..."

But you use this movie which is about a Kuffar woman fleeing with her daugter Islamic tarany. This Islamic tarany kid napped her daughter under Islamic law, held them both hostage.

This movie documented her going through extream hardship to get out of a Islamic country and you say ....

"This is a real life story based on the testimony of the American woman and her daughter, which the movie was based on as well."

Simply amazing lol

Zack_Tiang said...

Samatar is definitely getting owned by his own scriptures....

And Osama is definitely desperate to use a movie to support facts...

Both have no grounds to stand on.... only straws to grasp...

Samatar Mohamed said...

@Christeotama

Rape in the West is when a person has sex with another person against their will. I would like to ask you a quick question, if lets say a group of christians captured some muslim women, if the women agreed to having sex with the christian men, you would say it is wrong to capture them and that it is adultery, but would you say it is also rape assuming the sex was consensual .I would also like you to actually read the Quranic verses and hadiths that you brought up. From every one of them, all you have managed to prove is that the men captured the slave women after a war against their tribe, and that the prophet allowed the men to have sex with the slave women. But the key element you failed to show from the hadiths were whether the sex was consensual or not. When you claim rape and bring a source, you must show that the sex was not consensual. In all those accounts, you have not managed to do that.

@Search4truth

You can call me a liar and ignorant person all you want but as the accuser, the burden of proof lies on you, and your proofs as I have shown from my statement earlier is less then satisfactory. Anyone knows that for a case to be considered rape, the evidence must show that the victim was unwilling to have sex with the men. We do not have the womens testimonies on whether they were raped or not, and there is not specific information as to whether the sex was consensual or not, therefore, I do have all the right in the world to claim that unless you show me evidence that it was not consensual, that it was consensual sex. If you heard that so and so had sex, would you just claim it was rape. Of course not, then be fair and show from the sources that the sex was not consensual.

CristoTeAma said...

@Samatar
Samatar said:
"But the key element you failed to show from the hadiths were whether the sex was consensual or not."

So you are telling em these guys just invaded these people villages, they killed their fathers, brothers, etc etc, and these women were desparate to have sex with the men who did this? Again i would qoute what is rape in the west: "meaning having sex with a woman who doesn't WANT to have sex with us, by physical force, COERCION, abuse of AUTHORITY or with a person who is incapable of valid consent" So even if they didn't jump on these women hitting them or so, there is a clear proof of coercion, abuse of authority etc, even more considering these hadiths talk about SLAVING THEM, and Selling them so let's put an example:
-Muslim Jihadist: Ok woman this is the deal, have sex with me or i sell you to the guys in the dessert.
-Just invaded woman with dead families by this same muslim: Do i have any onther choice?
-Muslim Jihadist: No, take it or leave it.
-Just invaded woman with dead families by this same muslim: Ok (crying)
-Muslim Jihadist: Allah hu akbar.

Also Samatar said.
"I would like to ask you a quick question, if lets say a group of christians captured some muslim women, if the women agreed to having sex with the christian men, you would say it is wrong to capture them and that it is adultery,"

First my God doesn't allow me to do such acts, thats Allah not YHWH. But let's suppose God commands me to do that, even if she accepts to have sex with me, that would be adultery or fornication (married or no) so i wouldn't accept it, because my god tells me that i have to be married to do that, Jesus tells me: Next post

CristoTeAma said...

@Samatar

That's a sin, besides it's interesting these muslims didn't have more mental strenght considering they were fighting for Allah's cause, yet we see "false" apostles like Paul giving his advice to the churches at that dificult time in 1 Corinthians 7:26 "Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27 Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. 28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this." So a "false" apostle of God have more mental strength toward sex than the "real followers" of God. All what these allah's fighter had in mind was the war booty, just like mercenaries, thinking in slaves, slave trade, sex slaves, and the wealth of the enemy.

Jesus said something i think we could apply too:

Matthew 19:11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

In this part Jesus is talking about the devorce, but what i find interesting is that at that time there were ppl who kept eunuchs who choose to live like eunuchs "for the sake of the kingdom of heaven." So even in other religions (pagans) there are guys who can live lifes with no sex for the sake of heaven, yet this Allahs soldier couldn't even w8 some months until they could return to their 4 wives....

To Finish, i encourage you Samatar to actually check those hadiths.
Happy New Year, Hope you let Jesus work in your life and change you from the darkness to light i really do. BYE.!

CristoTeAma said...

Samatar i almost forgot one thing, check well the Hadith the part where it says that their Husbands were still alive, so i find really difficult to believe these women wanted to have sex with this Invaders, when they still had their Husbands who would get really upset for this, and would reject them later.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Samatar

And the burden of proof has been met.

You are just unwilling to accept reality!

Now tell me would your Mother want to have sex in front of your Father with the men after they slaughtered you and some of your family? And dont tell me they were all taken captive, it was a battle! The women have no right to say NO!. A wife has no right under sharia to refuse. How can a slave!

YOU ARE A PATHETIC LIAR!

a slave woman does not have the right to refuse her master’s requests unless she has a valid excuse. If she does that she is being disobedient and he has the right to discipline her in whatever manner he thinks is appropriate and is allowed in sharee’ah.
And Allaah knows best.
Husband forcing his wife to have intercourse
Islam Q&A, Fatwa No. 33597

IF A WOMAN CANNOT REFUSE THEW ADVANCES OF A MAN, THAT IS FORCE, SHE DOES NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO SAY NO. YOU DISGIST ME!

search 4 truth said...

@ sAMATAR


One simple question.

Can the female captives refuse to have sex with their captures without the threat of punishment?

YEs or no!

SGM said...

@Samatar,

What you fail to see is the root problem what your Allah is allowing here and that is adultery on top of rape. For a moment lets assume that the captured women had consensual sex, then isn’t it adultery which your Allah is allowing? Does your Allah has any shame? What kind of God is he that loves adultery on top of rape? And not only one time, a moslem can indulge himself in adultery as much as he wants according to Sura 4:24, “except those whom you right hands posses”.

Unfortunately, you are not seeing the root problem. Instead you are wasting your energy in debating whether is it consensual or not. Forget about consensual or not, the bottom line is, it is ADULTERY (on top of rape) which your Allah is allowing.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Samatar

4:19 has nothing to do with slaves or captives! You are either completely ignorant or trying to deceive again! And we have refuted this already. But you cannot accept reality! I will be waiting for your answer to my question!


* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ يَٰأَيُّهَا ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ لاَ يَحِلُّ لَكُمْ أَن تَرِثُواْ ٱلنِّسَآءَ كَرْهاً وَلاَ تَعْضُلُوهُنَّ لِتَذْهَبُواْ بِبَعْضِ مَآ ءَاتَيْتُمُوهُنَّ إِلاَّ أَن يَأْتِينَ بِفَٰحِشَةٍ مُّبَيِّنَةٍ وَعَاشِرُوهُنَّ بِٱلْمَعْرُوفِ فَإِن كَرِهْتُمُوهُنَّ فَعَسَىٰ أَن تَكْرَهُواْ شَيْئاً وَيَجْعَلَ ٱللَّهُ فِيهِ خَيْراً كَثِيراً }

O you who believe, it is not lawful for you to inherit women against their will (read either karhan or kurhan, as alternative forms) that is to say, coercing them into this. In pre-Islamic times, they used to inherit women from their kin, and if they so wished they could marry [a woman] without a dowry, or marry her off and take the dowry for themselves, or prevent her [from marriage] until she gave up what she had inherited, or until she died and they could inherit from her. They were thus forbidden such practices; neither debar them, your [former] wives from marrying others by retaining them while you have no desire for them yourselves, only to harm them; so that you may go off with part of what you have given them, of the dowry, except when they commit flagrant (read mubayyina, ‘making it clear’, or mubayyana, ‘clear’) lewdness, such as adultery or rebellion, then you have the right to coerce them until they redeem themselves to you or forfeit [their dowries]. Consort with them in kindness, that is, being decent in speaking [to them], with regard to [their] expenditure and lodging; for if you hate them, then be patient; it may happen that you hate a thing wherein God has set much good, that is to say, perhaps He does this when He provides you with a righteous child through them.

Again there are different rules that are applied to Muslim women and kafre women! You are willfully ignorant and a fool!


Qur'an (23:5-6) - "..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess


* تفسير Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ إِلاَّ عَلَىٰ أَزْوَاجِهِمْ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ غَيْرُ مَلُومِينَ }

except from their spouses, that is, to their spouses, and what [slaves] their right hands possess, that is, concubines, for then they are not blameworthy, in having sexual intercourse with them.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Osama

Afghan woman cuts off father-in-law's private part
By AFP
Published Saturday, December 31, 2011
An Afghan woman cut off her father-in-law's penis with a knife after he tried to have sex with her, a doctor in eastern Afghanistan's Ghazni province said on Saturday.

"One day when the husband was away from home he attempted to have sex with his daughter-in-law and she cut off his penis with a knife," the doctor from a private hospital in Ghazni said on condition of anonymity.

The man went for treatment at the private hospital but was sent on to the capital Kabul for specialist treatment, he added. The incident took place two weeks ago but has only just come to light.

According to figures in an Oxfam report in October, 87 percent of Afghan women report having experienced physical, sexual or psychological violence or forced marriage.


WOW 87% in Afghanistan! Why is it we cant find this Islamic Utopia? LOL!

Search 4 Truth said...

NOW THAT SAMATAR IS CORNERED, HE WILL RUN AND DODGE.

AND THEN THE TOPIC WILL COME UP AGAIN LATER AND NOT ACCEPT REALITY. HE HAS NO INTEGRITY. TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, I DONT THINK I HAVE EVER RUN INTO THIS MYTHICAL CREATURE, A MUSLIM CAPABLE OF OBJECTIVE REASONING, CRITICAL THINKING AND INTELLECTUAL INTEGRITY!