Wednesday, November 9, 2011

Is Jesus God?

A debate between Diaa Mohamed from and Samuel Green. 25th October 2011 at the University of Techonology Sydney.


Sam said...

Samuel, the verse from the Quran which says that Jesus made some things lawful is 3:50:

And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Taurat (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me. Hilali-Khan

andy bell said...

Jesus may not have been the God, a God, or even a demi-God.

If the man really did perform supernatural miracles and rise from the dead, he may have had super powers.

Or he could have been a great magician.

But it doesn't matter because the message of christianity is ultimately a good one.

But one thing that is a fact--there is no way in hell that an illiterate pedophile arab is anywhere remotely close to the creator of the universe. And there's not way in hell that quran is anything remotely divine. And there is no way in hell that the purpose of life is live and behave like an ignorant 7th century arab.

That much is an inviolable fact of life.

characterbuilder said...

A B said,

"But it doesn't matter because the message of christianity is ultimately a good one."

In fact it does matter... greatly... because if Jesus was not the divine Son of God then he lied about his own nature and his relationship with his Father. If he lied then he was a deceiver and thus his teaching was not good.

See Jesus own words in John 5:17,18; 8:57-58; 10:30

characterbuilder said...

I very much appreciate Samuel Green's attitude and spirit when he engages Muslims.





I'm thinking there are some apologists' out there who could learn from this man.

It's not all about knowledge or debating skills that makes one effective.

Anonymous said...

ahhhh samuel green, where can i find where and when you are having debates

Radical Moderate said...

Wow another debate from Mr Green.

Man you are just on fire. I'm going to have to start calling you the THUNDER FROM DOWN UNDER :)

Anonymous said...

@Sam as you know
Giving Law's are from Allah's Right's alone(Tawheed ar ruboobiyyah, Tawheed al Hakimiyyah)so applying the Muslim's method of hermeneutics(that they use on the Bible) we have to say the Quran is saying Jesus has the same right to legislate as Allah.

@ Andy Jesus was God, anyone who does a conclusive inductive study of what the Bible says about His nature cannot possibly come away with any other conclusion, I recommend you listen to Sam Shamouns video series titles HANDS, here

If you feel the message of Christianity is a good one, then you should know one of the fundamental doctrines of it's message is the acknowledgment of the Deity of Christ the son of God.

D335 said...

Diaa Mohammed used "oh mary, sister of Aaron".
hmm, eventho he was debating at the first time, does he realized the indication that many will debate that verse back?

at least I believe Diaa Mohammed watched few debates first in Youtube before engaging in a debate.


Samuel Green said...

Thanks for the comments everyone. Please feel free to suggest ways I can improve and make my points better. One that I was thinking of was that I did not point out that Diaa had not answered the points I presented. Live and learn.

aaron, please email me. Go to one of my sites for the address.

Zack_Tiang said...

Mr Samuel Green,

Your calm, cool, patient attitude during your debates is admirable. I am easily agitated/irritated by the plainly wrongful explanations by the Muslims, so I admire your attitude in dealing with Muslims.

Keep up the blessed work and God bless you.

D335 said...

@Samuel Green

I agree mostly with majority here, that you should continue in the manner you've presented before.

(who typed this?)

I'm wondering if a Sunni muslim in debate with a Shia (yes I've seen it before with Ahmadiyah),
The one party will definitely yell "Allahhuakbar" outloud while the other "yalalalallalalala", complete with astagfirulla, nauzubilla, mashalla, kuffars! -
considering their long history of blood. But you are in "western" land of the down south ^^, considerably.

Yet, I believe that your current way of "exposing" Islam, therefor honest and instead creating anger, you created "questions" in their heart and minds.

NB However I'm also wondering what if Christian apologists tried to explain to a Shia muslim about the "crossdressing" problem or the "breastfeeding" fatwa. Those polemics actually brought "fire" and yet I love to hear someone debate that.

SGM said...

I thank God for people like Sameul Green, Sam Shamoun, David Wood, Robert Moorey and others who debate with Moslems. I believe that this is the best way to proclaim the gospel to Moslems and expose Mohammad. I also thank God for the freedom we have in non Moslem countries where we can openly discuss and challenge other faiths. For we know this for a fact that if anyone says anything against mohammad out side of such debate settings, his or her life would be in danger. If you say anything against mohammad in a Moslem country, i.e., that he is not a prophet of God, you will be dead within minutes. There will be protests and churches and Christian properties will be destroyed. I can attest to it personally coming from a Moslem country.
I pray that these debates will fuel the fire within Moslems to search for the truth which is only found in Jesus Christ.
God bless you all, Sam Green, Sam Shamoun, David and all those who are on the front line to defend Christian faith. May God protect you and make his face shine upon you and bless your ministry.

Zack_Tiang said...

I find Diaa's argument that "begotten" must ONLY mean the actual act of begetting through sex and that we cannot redefine the word within a certain context to be untruthful and simply ignores simple linguistics.

Can we all agree that 'kill' means to 'end a life'?
There's no other meaning, is there?
"To kill" can only mean "to end a life", right?

What do you think of this statement?
"The stand-up comedian killed the audience last night."
What does it mean?
How about "Killing me softly with his song.."?
"He killed the ball"?


How about "bomb"? Do we all agree it basically means "a device that detonates/explodes" [noun] or "the act of throwing such devices" [verb]?
Ever heard of the term "photo bomb"?
Or the famous phrase, "She da bomb"?

It is simply ignorant (I feel) to say that one cannot redefine (for a lack of a better term) a word according to the context of the word's usage or to, at least, give the closest representation of the intended meaning.

Zack_Tiang said...

And then, there's Diaa's strawman that 1 John 5:7 is the very foundation (and only one) upon which the entirety of the Trinity doctrine is based on and that to throw it out "is a big matter".

I believe any of us Christians here would be facepalming ourselves at that statement.

Diaa actually looked seriously convinced at that, as if he had found the holy grail to refuting the Trinity doctrine.
Someone please show him that that is just not true... please.

Osama Abdallah said...

Perry/Wood 2012! The dream team! Kill the department of Education and all of the Scientists along with it. Put them all to the cross! :)

Osama Abdallah

Osama Abdallah said...

I till yaa, Rick Perry and David Wood would make a killer team for 2012. Man, I'd vote for bote of thiim caawboyz! :)

Osama Abdallah said...

Christ is indeed the Creator of the Universe! The proof? He hadn't the power, nor the authority, to perform a single Miracle at night. (John 9:3-5)

Christ is indeed the Creator of the Universe! The proof? He always seeked GOD's permission before he performed any Miracle. (John 11:41-42)

Yup. Christ is GOD, and I am the president of the United States of America. Goooo Perry/Wood 2012!! :)

Osama Abdallah

characterbuilder said...

Regarding Samuel Green's attitude and spirit ...

I failed mention ...


characterbuilder said...


In reference to your previous comments ... please exegete this passage in its context.

Colossians 1:16(NASB77)
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created by Him and for Him.

D335 said...


Don't you think that bible is corrupt osama?

How can we take your words about John 9:3-5 when you say the bible is corrupt?

explain the logic in there.


play the old muslim trick. Inconsistency


proof for god said...

Jesus Christ is God and has the divine authority to legislate moral law for He is the “Mighty God” with rulership over a government that “there will be no end.”
Isaiah 9:6-7 “For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice, From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”

Submit to His Lordship and authority or one is fighting against the “zeal of the Lord of hosts.”

And Job adds that God alone “treads on the waves of the sea”
Job 9:8 "He alone spreads out the heavens and treads on the waves of the sea.”

Mark 6:48 Then He saw them straining at rowing, for the wind was against them. Now about the fourth watch of the night He [Jesus] came to them, walking on the sea, and would have passed them by.

and in John 12:41 we find:
"These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him [Jesus]."
And that report comes about Jesus comes from Isaiah 6:
Isaiah 6:1-7 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the temple. 2 Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one cried to another and said:

“ Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts;
The whole earth is full of His glory!”

4 And the posts of the door were shaken by the voice of him who cried out, and the house was filled with smoke.
5 So I said: “ Woe is me, for I am undone! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips;
For my eyes have seen the King,
The LORD of hosts.”

Jesus is God and is the Lord of Hosts; those who reject Him will one day be left completely and utterly undone.

mikeyh428 said...

So I guess if Jesus could not do miracles at night, then His walking on water and healing the priests servant's ear at His arrest must have been in broad daylight...even though it is clearly at night.

And in case you cannot figure it out, Jesus is speaking metaphorically. He Himself is the light of the world and will soon be taken from the world. It will be "night" once He is arrested - the so-called "hour of darkness," when no work will be done again apart from the cross until Pentecost. Ah, cherry-pickers...

John 8:24 said...

Osama Abdallah,

You don't even have the basic understanding of the Bible or Christianity and you are making fun of Jesus being God using the Bible as a proof? Ok, Osama, tell us truthfully: have you ever read the Bible fully, or the New Testament or even a single gospel end to end? Have you read a single Christian commentary? It doesn't sound like it. And you consider yourself a great Muslim debater? This same pattern I see with each and every Muslim debater. And every Muslim that I ever argued with blindly picks up Muslim debaters points. I am pretty sure the Muslims apologists never read the Bible or a commentary for themselves. They all parrot the first ignorant idiot's (Ahmad Deedat) points!

You are quoting verses when Jesus obviously did not have the full authority!!! That is what is incarnation. It is not a little secret that Christians keep hidden or anything they are embarrassed by! This is just what incarnation means. This is quite basic, Osama. It is Christianity 101. That Jesus became FULLY man! And YOU (and other Muslim debaters) should be embarrassed by not knowing it or understanding it!

When Jesus took on flesh he gave up his authority, his power and his other godly attributes!

"(Jesus) who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross! "
(Philippians 2: 6-8)

Jesus Christ in flesh was not omnipresent, omniscient or omnipotent as he gave up the fullness of those attributes willing through the incarnation and therefore limiting himself. Jesus limited himself to a man - a little lower than angels (Hebrews 2:9). Jesus was bound by space and time. He had to depend upon the Holy Spirit for knowledge & power. He had to communicate to his Father through the Spirit, therefore he prayed. Jesus in the Bible is not like a baby speaking like an adult (as portrayed in the Quran). Jesus had to learn how to speak, how to write etc. Jesus grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52). Jesus only started his ministry after being baptized and sent by the Spirit - where God the Father himself says: "This is my Son, whom I love" (Matthew 3:17). Jesus only knew what the Spirit revealed to him and therefore did not know the day or the hour of his second coming (Matthew 24:2) - a favorite verse used by ignorant Muslim apologists. Jesus felt pain, he was tired, he was hungry and yes, he did go to the toilet! (how ignorant and stupid of Muslim apologists to keep using the God can not go to the toilet argument without even understanding what incarnation is!). When Jesus was arrested he says to his disciple who tries to defend him, "Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?" (Matthew 26:53). The only time the Spirit left him, was when God abandoned him on the cross as Jesus took upon himself our sin. That is why he cried out 'My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?' (Matthew 27:46) - another favorite verse of Muslims. But after Jesus rose from the dead, all authority in heaven and earth was given back to him (Matthew 28:18). (Hmm, I wonder why Muslims never use Matthew 28:18?) Even if you had just managed to read till the end of the gospel of Matthew, it would have saved you for revealing your ignorance.

According to your disparaging comments, you seem proud, arrogant and haughty. "Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall." (Proverbs 16:18) and it was pride that made Satan fall! In spite of getting to know that you have been wrong, if you are going to remain stubborn and not going to humble yourself before God you will for sure join Satan in his doom. And this, indeed, is the warning for every Muslim.

John 8:24 said...

Summing up for all Muslims who have no understanding of the basic concept of incarnation and just blindly pick up arguments made by ignorant Muslim debaters:

1) Jesus existed eternally as the Son of God, the Word of God (both are titles)
2) Jesus limited himself by taking on flesh (incarnation)
3) Jesus preached the gospel, performed many miracles
4) Jesus took up on himself our sin and payed of us by dying sacrificially on the cross
5) Jesus bodily rose from the dead
6) All authority is given to Jesus and He ascends into heaven
7) Jesus is going to come back to judge the whole world and set up his kingdom

First, there is no point in showing verses from the Bible in steps 2, 3 and 4 where Jesus was limited because of incarnation to show that he was limited and therefore not God!

Second, who in their sound mind would openly say "I am God, worship me!"? Only a fool would say that. Jesus was no fool! And, therefore, Jesus did not say those exact words, though he truly was divine. Jesus did give a lot of hints and made many direct and indirect claims to divinity and proved his claims through performing miracles and showing knowledge that puzzled even his staunch enemies. Instead of foolishly saying "I am God, worship me!", Jesus wanted people to discover for themselves who he indeed was! All you have to do is to read a gospel end to end and it would be absolutely clear! At the height of his ministry Jesus asks his disciples "Who do people say I am?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:13-16). Saying openly "I am God, worship me" would also harm his mission of bringing salvation by offering himself as a sacrifice (Matthew 16:20-28). People would demand a spectacular sign like the devil (Matthew 4:6) - which Jesus would not perform. So when he refuses to perform the sign, people would claim he is a lair and reject him. Lets say, for the sake of argument, he performs the sign they ask for, then everyone will make him a king - which again would defeat his mission. He can't be a rightful king without the cross! He needs rightfully earn it by going through steps 4, 5 and 6. In fact, when people tried to forceably make him their king he escaped from them (John 6:15). Either ways it a bad thing. So Muslims, please don't throw this Jesus never said "I am God, worship me" junk argument! Please read the gospel and understand why Jesus never said that. It isn't too hard to understand. Is it?

Third, even in step 2, 3 and 4 Jesus displays power and knowledge like no other. He performs miracles like no other. John the baptist testifies about him. God the Father testifies about him. In step 4 even a pagan Roman soldier recognizes his divinity. His disciples and those who knew him, however, did not get it fully. They did not really understand who Jesus was, what his mission was and what his kingdom looked like. (Peter, knew the right answer to Jesus' question "Who do you say I am" but did not clearly comprehend the implications). But after step 4 and 5, it became clear to all disciples - so much so that all the apostles preached, in spite of opposition and fierce persecution, that Jesus is God, he died for our sins and rose up from the dead. Ultimately 11 out of 12 apostles died as martyrs sacrificing their own lives for preaching this truth. And on this very blood of the martyrs was the early church built!

The miraculous birth of Jesus, his great moral teachings, his sinless and exemplary life in accordance to his teachings, his amazing miracles, his sacrificial death on the cross, his resurrection and the early church witness and martyrdom should move one to exclaim, like the Roman centurion, "Surely, he is the Son of God" (Matthew 27:54)

concernedforusa said...

Deuteronomy 6:4:
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD, our God, the LORD is one”
In Deuteronomy 6:4, Hebrew word for “one” is “echad”. “Echad” is a compound unity, a collective sense. It implies plurality in unity. For example:
Genesis 2:24:
“Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one [“echad”] flesh.”
According to Genesis 2:24, when a man is united to a woman, the two become “one [“echad”] flesh”, clearly a compound unity.
2 Samuel 7:23:
“And who is like Your people, like Israel, the one [“echad”] nation on the earth.”
The Bible speaks of Israel being “one nation”. One nation made up of millions of people.
Exodus 24:3:
“…And all the people answered with one [“echad”] voice.”
Here, voices of many people became one [“echad”] voice.
From all examples above, it is absolutely clear that “echad” certainly does not refer to the concept of absolute unity.
In contrast, the Hebrew word “yachid” which does refer to absolute unity was never used in the Old Testament with reference to Yahweh.
The Hebrew Bible nowhere teaches that our LORD, who is the only true God, is an absolute unity, while it does give indications that His unity is complex or compound.
The word “GOD” appears in Deuteronomy 6:4 three times, and it is very suggestive.
Deuteronomy 6:4:
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD, our God, the LORD is one”
Or, in Hebrew:
“Shema Yisrael Yahweh Eloheinu Yahweh Echad”
The Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4) was not addressing philosophical issues such as the absolute or compound unity of God. Rather, it was saying to the people of Israel that the LORD alone was to be our God – he and no other.
The problem was that there were so many gods competing for people’s of Israel worship and adoration. This was the Israel’s battle, as God warned in the Ten Commandments, and as Moses and Joshua often repeated.
Exodus 20:2-3:
“…You shall have no other gods before me.”

Shema was not addressing the issue of God’s essential nature – whether He isone in one or ten in one. In fact, this really wasn’t an issue at all, since every god is “one”. Rather, it was saying to people of Israel that the Lord alone was to be our God – He and no other.
For this reason New Jewish Publication Society Version (NJPSV) translates Deuteronomy 6:4 as:
“Hear,O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord alone.”
In fact, the footnote in the NJPSV tells that this is also the understanding of the revered medieval Rabbinical commentators Abraham Ibn Ezra and Rashbam (Rabbi Shmuel Ben Meir).

The entire thrust of Deuteronomy 6:4 was that the Lord alone was to be Israel’s god.
This is also in harmony with the famous midrash (Rabbinical commentary) which used “Israel” to refer to Jacob. When Jacob was near his death he expressed his fear that possibly one of his sons would not remain faithful to the Lord. His sons all replied to him:
“Hear, O Israel [i.e. Israel/Jacob, our father], the Lord is our God, the Lord alone. Just as in your heart there is only One [“echad”] so also in our hearts there is only One [“echad”].”
Once again, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue of God’s essential nature. Rather, it is a profession of faith that the Lord alone – the God of Jacob/Israel would be the only God of Jacob’s descendants.
When Jesus quotes the words of Shema:
“Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.”
He meant to say that the Lord is our one and only God. Jesus was not entering into a discussion here about the essential nature of His heavenly Father.
But, if our Muslim “friends” insist that Jesus did talked here about the essential nature of God, we may gladly agree. Taking into account that the Hebrew word for “one” here is “echad” which means compound unity, and Shema referenced to God three times, Jesus words in Mark 12:29 may well be as the following:
“Hear, O Israel, the Lord [The Father] our God [The Son], the Lord [The Holy Spirit] is one.”
This is a powerful confirmation of the Trinity!

concernedforusa said...

The Trinity

In the New Testament, the clear and direct definition of the Trinity was given by Jesus Himself in Matthew28:19:
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

Here, we have the whole representation of the Trinity: The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. Notice please, that in the phrase “in the name of” – the “name” is singular, not plural: One God in three Persons.

In the Old Testament, the stunning description of the Trinity was given by the prophet Isaiah.

Isaiah 48:16:
“Come near to Me, hear this
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning
From the time that it was, I was there.
And now the Lord God and His Spirit have sent Me.”

The Speaker here who refers to Himself as “Me” existed from the beginning of the time. He is eternal [as John said, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,and the Word was God”]. Clearly, the Speaker is the Word, the Son who is God Himself.

So, in Isaiah 48:16, we have the Trinity: The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit.

concernedforusa said...


Muslims claim that Yeshua (Jesus) did not fulfill the prophesy in Isaiah 7:14 because he was never called Immanuel. This objection can be easily refuted. According to 2 Samuel 12:24-25, Solomon was to be called Jedidiah, but he was never referred to by this name once in the Old Testament.

Immanuel, a name found nowhere else in the Bible or the Ancient Near East, literally means “God Is With Us”. In the Hebrew culture, the meaning of the name, not the name itself, is what matters the most. Jesus literally lived among us and He is with us now. Jesus fulfilled this prophesy because He is "Immanuel" in the the literal meaning of this word.

The name Yeshua means “Yahweh saves” or “salvation”. Jesus is our God who literally lived among us and brought to us salvation.

proof for god said...

In Revelation 1:7-8 not only does Jesus declare that He is God, He proclaims that He is the Almighty:

Rev. 1:7-8 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty” (see John 8:58, 10:30; Is. 9:6; Zech. 10:12 & 12:10,; etc.)

I will believe Jesus Christ over 7th century sword wielding bandits or 21st century alogical religionists who uphold irrational worldviews built upon inconsistent rational foundations.

concernedforusa said...

Jesus Christ Pre-incarnate

The Hebrew Bible preserves numerous instances of people “seeing God”. But, according to Exodus 33:20, no one can see God or his face and live.

In Exodus 24:9-1, Moses and a select group of Israelites saw God, who did not strike them down. Moses spoke with God “face to face”.

The most prominent incident described in Genesis 18, where God (Yahweh) Himself and His two angels visited Abraham. The LORD Himself in human form appeared to Abraham and Sarah. The LORD (Yahweh) spoke with Abraham and ate with him.

It was always The Word, The Son, pre-incarnate Jesus Christ whom they saw. It is only when we recognize the Son – the exact representation of God, and yet God Himself – that can explain how God remained the LORD in heaven while also appearing as the LORD on earth in Genesis 18.

So, when Adam and Eve walked with God in the Garden of Eden, it was not a metaphor. The Word, Pre-incarnate Jesus Christ actually walked with them.

In many places of the Old Testament, the Angel of the LORD is identified with the LORD Himself. The text of Exodus 3 completely interwines the Angel of the LORD with the LORD Himself. It seems that God somehow “in” this Angel and that seeing the Angel was equated with seeing God.

In Exodus 23-20-23, God tells Moses that this Angel has the Divine name within His very own Person, implying that this Angel has the very nature of God and He has the ability to forgive sins, a divine function.

This Angel of the LORD is the Word, Pre-incarnate Jesus Christ and God Himself.

concernedforusa said...

This Muslim told that Jesus never demanded prayers. It is true, He never demanded prayers, but He accepted prayers. Jesus accepted prayers from his disciples and other people. He never rebuked people for praying Him.

Matthew 14:33:
Then those whowere in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, ‘Truly You are the Son of God.”

This Muslim told that Jesus never told that He and God are one. This Muslim lied. In John 10:30, Jesus told, “I and My Father are one.”

Mr McStizzle said...

I'm astounded that Diaa was completely ignorant of Surah 10:94 (If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.)

Although I do wonder if he was feigning ignorance so as not to show that he had been completely caught out.

taomeano said...

You demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of our Holy Scriptures. Your reference to John 9 3-5 does not mean Jesus is not the creator of the universe. What I see is that because Moslems do not have the Holy Spirit, they simply cannot understand the word of God. John 6:63.

It is funny how moslems will use the bible they say is corrupted to try to refute christianity and that is fine with them but when Christians use the same bible to refute Islam moslems scream the bible is corrupted. That is a shame Osama Abdallah. It shows you are inconsistent in your argumentation.

BluePenny said...

Osama Abdallah said...
Christ is indeed the Creator of the Universe! The proof? He hadn't the power, nor the authority, to perform a single Miracle at night. (John 9:3-5)

You ignored 3:6, which is the rest of the sentence. As Mikeyh428 pointed out, Jesus knew he is the light of the world, and soon he would be leaving this world. The absence of light is darkness. Just in case you don't like it being an implication of the coming crucifixion, there is a very plain literal explanation. The chapter itself tells us that the Sabbath was approaching, when Jews were not supposed to work. See 9:14:

(Joh 9:14 NLT) because it was on the Sabbath that Jesus had made the mud and healed him.

Jesus did healings on the Sabbath, as he is "Lord of the Sabbath" (Matt 12:8). Just as his Father continues to work holding creation together 24/7, Jesus also continues his divine activity on the Sabbath. However the Sabbath sundown was coming, and many normal human activities would need to be stopped in observance.

Osama, did you even bother to read down to 9:14 to see this? Most people on the planet know the Jewish Sabbath starts at sundown, and that observant Jews stop working at that time. The clue is in the verses you quoted: "night is coming, then no one can work". When a Jewish person says something like that, it just might indicate there is a Sabbath on its way. Sure enough, the text tells us this exact thing.

simple_truth said...

I got really annoyed at Diaa Mohamed continually saying that the word means this or that because of what someone has said it meant. He didn't go and study the relevant scripture and its context himself. This does not bode well for him in debating or in honest scholarly research.

I also got annoyed by his continual appeal to the fact that if Jesus didn't explicitly say something, then it is not true or can't be validated as being what He said. It would be silly for Jesus to say, "I am God. Worship me." Jesus had to lead people to the conclusion of him being God; otherwise their minds and hearts would not have been open to His gospel. Their eyes had to be opened to see who the person of Jesus really was for themselves. Jesus taught--not dictated like the Qu'ran seems to think.

Just think about it for a moment. If Jesus told people to worship Him, how genuine could one be if they actually did it out of obligation to Him? If Jesus said that He was God, then how credible would He seem? After all, who goes around saying that He is God and not have people consider him a nut of some sorts? Muslims don't seem to realize that if Jesus announced Himself as they expect, He would not have been taken seriously or His proclamation would have basically made it impossible for Him to fulfill His mission since all of the focus would have turned to his claim instead of his message and examples. I can see people saying that if you are God, do this and do that as proof. The teaching would have been left far behind, IMO.

simple_truth said...

Oh! I forgot too that Diaa should use the same logic with the hadith collections. They were collected well after the death of the narrators had died; yet, he wouldn't think twice about relying upon the chain of narrators and their recollections of what Mohammad presumably said. In his example of John the Baptist calling Jesus the Lamb of God, he would reject what John said, even though John and Jesus lived in the same time frame while John personally meat and talked with Jesus.

simple_truth said...

Thank you, Samuel, for your testimony to Jesus and your recent debate. The Muslims really need to think about what they believe and heavily consider that the Christian/Jewish literature refute their claims. I know that they wan't to believe in God, but unfortunately, they have bought into the many unfounded claims of Islam on principal that the Qu'ran is the final revelation and has been perfectly preserved and guarded. Somehow such things pacify them to the point that they don't look both beyond and outside of their scriptures. I know that with your ministry towards them, some of them will at least start thinking for themselves and start to question what they have been fed.

Shalom, Samuel.

SGM said...

To All borthers in Christ,

Please be persistent and consistent when explaining the Bible to Moslems. And most of all, pray that the Lord will give them the holy spirit so that they can understand the word of God.
If you look at what Osama is saying, it is the same old story of taking biblical verses out of context and interpreting them to fit his false quranic teachings. In my observation, a Moslem has to take Bible verses out of context for two reasons.

First, Moslems are taught all their life to read a book (quran) which has no context. It is a mambo jumbo of sayings of Mohammad. Quran has the first chapter which Allah spoke at the end and the last in the beginning. Even that is not in a sequence. To a first time reader, it will make no sense at all. I gurantee you. In the same chapter of the quran, you will be reading about oranges and few verses later, you will be talking about apples. So, for a Moslem, it is very difficult to read another revelation of God which is intellectual, in sequence, has a chronology and actually has a beginning and an end. Therefore, as a habit they read a verse and forget that it is related to verses above and below, to the entire chapter and to the book on the whole in which they are found.

Secondly, majority of the Moslems don’t use common sense and logic when it comes to reading the Bible (even reading the quran). Those very few who do use common sense and logic, find Jesus as their savior. Now I am not saying that Moslems are not smart people, they are. However, when it comes to understanding the Bible, they are not. The reason for that is that they don’t have the Holy Spirit. Even the disciples of Jesus didn’t understand the scriptures until He opened their minds. In Luke 24:45 we read, “Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,” The Psalmist says in Psalm 119:18, “Open my eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of your law.” In Acts 16:14 we read about Lydia, “One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.” So, unless the Lord open their eye and heart and mind, no one regardless if you are a moslem or not, you can not understand the scriptures.

Therefore, please be persistent and consistent in explaining the Bible to Osama and others over and over again. You never know, the Lord might have mercy upon him and others to open their eyes. All honor and glory and praise be to our Lord, Savior and Redeemer Jesus Christ.

jonnykzj said...

@John 8:24

Ok i read through ur article. Now id like to make some pts. As ive mentioned to u I believe Jesus ALWAYS maintained the POTNETIAL to burst out, turn back to spirit or peform any amount of miracles at any particular time in his life BUT YES CHOSE NOT TO AND LIVE LIKE A HUMAN. I even believe that ALL THREE Persons of God cldve become flesh and still their Spirits run the entire universe. You said Jesus prayed in the wilderness and I hypothesized spirits might be watching him, thus him doing so as an example after all for those to see. OTHER than tht SOMENONE wrote the accnt of Jesus doing so and it doesnt sound from the Bible that Jesus specifically commanded that such be written OR that he himself told this accnt of his. SO my qs wld be how did a disciple write this account if none LIVING witnessed it? Rnt the Gospels ALL ABT WHT PPL SAW JESUS DOING N WROTE DOWN N NOT A BOOK LIKE THE QURAN SUPPOSEDLY DIRECTLY REVEALED TO MUHAMMAD?
ALSO lets assume no one witnessed it. I personally wldnt have a problem with tht either. THEN my hypothesis wld be tht Jesus WANTED TO EXPERIENCE PRAYER BEING 100% MAN AS WELL JUST LIKE HE WANTED TO EXPERIENCE ALL THE REST. NOT THAT HE NEEDED TO PRAY BUT THT HE DESIRED TO. ALSO id like to know wht other Christians say abt the Eternal relationship and COMMUNICATION btw Father AND Son(Word). IS the act of communication from the SON TOWARDS THE FATHER IN ETERNITY NEVER DEFINED/TERMED AS PRAYER OTHER THAN THE WORD BEING IN THE FLESH?

Tabs said...

The Moslem speaker bought up some damning evidence, he bought up a very convincing argument which I noted and will look into. I think as Christians we should at times think out of the box at times. Some of the comments made by our fellow Christians about this guest speaker are deplorable.

Radical Moderate said...

Tabs you wrote...

"The Moslem speaker bought up some damning evidence,"

Really? Like what? Can you give a example of this "evidence"?

You then wrote...

"I think as Christians we should at times think out of the box at times."

So you are a Christian? Yet you think a Muslim brings up "DAMNING EVIDENCE" about the diety of our LORD AND SAVIOR?

YOu then wrote...
" Some of the comments made by our fellow Christians about this guest speaker are deplorable."

What is "deplorable" is a Muslim that would be YOU pretending to be a Christian to attack the Diety of our lord and Savior Jesus Christ.