Saturday, October 29, 2011

Who Killed Muhammad?

Through the centuries, thousands of people have claimed to be prophets. Only one, however, rested his claims on the fact that his aorta hadn't been cut. Ironically, as this man lay dying, he confessed that he could feel his aorta being severed. (Click here for a much shorter version of the argument.)



For those who want to keep track of the Muslim sources related to this issue, here they are. (Note: I didn't use all of these in the video. Note also: I typed these in by hand, so let me know if you spot any typos.)

I. QUR'AN TRANSLATIONS

Qur’an 69:44-46—And if he (Muhammad) had forged a false saying concerning Us We surely should have seized him by his right hand (or with power and might), and then certainly should have cut off his life artery (Aorta). (Hilali-Khan)

Qur’an 69:44-46—And if he had invented false sayings concerning Us, We assuredly had taken him by the right hand and then severed his life-artery. (Pickthall)

Qur’an 69:44-46—Had he invented lies concerning Us, We would have seized him by the right hand and severed his heart’s vein. (Dawood)

Qur’an 69:44-46—And if he had fabricated against Us some of the sayings, We would certainly have seized him by the right hand, then We would certainly have cut off his aorta. (Shakir)

II. MUSLIM COMMENTARIES

Tafsir Ibn Abbas on Qur’an 69:44-46—(And if he had invented) and had Muhammad invented (false sayings concerning Us) lies against Us and attributed to Us that which We did not say, (We assuredly had taken him) We assuredly had taken revenge against him (by the right hand) by means of truth and proofs; it is also said this means: We assuredly had vehemently taken him. (And then severed his life artery) the life artery of Muhammad (pbuh).

Tafsir Jalalayn on Qur’an 69:44-46—And had he, namely, the Prophet (s), fabricated any lies against Us, by communicating from Us that which We have not said, We would have assuredly seized him, We would have exacted vengeance [against him], as punishment, by the Right Hand, by [Our] strength and power; then We would have assuredly severed his life-artery, the aorta of the heart, a vein that connects with it, and which if severed results in that person’s death.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir on Qur’an 69:46—(And then We certainly would have cut off Al-Watin from him,) Ibn ‘Abbas said, “It (Al-Watin) refers to the artery of the heart, and it is the vein that is attached to the heart.” This has also been said by ‘Ikrimah, Sa’id bin Jubayr, Al-Hakim, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak, Muslim Al-Batin and Abu Sakhr Humayd bin Ziyad.

III. HADITH REFERENCES

Sahih al-Bukhari 2588—Aisha said, “When the Prophet became sick and his condition became serious, he requested his wives to allow him to be treated in my house, and they allowed him. He came out leaning on two men while his feet were dragging on the ground.”

Sahih al-Bukhari 2617—A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and was asked, “Shall we kill her?” He said, “No.” Anas added: “I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah’s Messenger.”

Sahih al-Bukhari 2797—The Prophet said, . . . “By Him in Whose Hands my soul is! I would love to be martyred in Allah’s Cause and then come back to life and then get martyred, and then come back to life again and then get martyred and then come back to life again and then get martyred.”

Sahih al-Bukhari 4428—The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, “O Aishah! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison.”

Sahih Muslim 5430—A Jewess came to Allah’s Messenger with poisoned mutton and he took of what had been brought to him. (When the effects of this poison were felt by him) he called for her and asked her about that, whereupon she said: I had determined to kill you. Thereupon he said: Allah will never give you the power to do it.

Sunan Abu Dawud 4498—A Jewess presented [Muhammad] at Khaibar a roasted sheep which she had poisoned. The Apostle of Allah ate of it and the people also ate. He then said: Lift your hands (from eating), for it has informed me that it is poisoned. Bishr b. al-Bara b. Ma’rur al-Ansari died. So he (the Prophet) sent for the Jewess (and said to her): What motivated you to do the work you have done? She said: If you were a prophet, it would not harm you; but if you were a king, I would rid the people of you. The Apostle of Allah then ordered regarding her and she was killed. He then said about the pain of which he died: I continued to feel pain from the morsel which I had eaten at Khaibar. This is the time when it has cut off my aorta.

Sunan Abu Dawud 4449—Umm Bishr said to the Prophet during the sickness of which he died: What do you think about your illness, Apostle of Allah? I do not think about the illness of my son except the poisoned sheep of which he had eaten with you at Khaibar. The Prophet said: And I do not think about my illness except that. This is the time when it cut off my aorta.

Sunan Ibn Majah 1622—Aishah said: “I never saw anyone suffer more pain than the Messenger of Allah.”

IV. SIRA REFERENCES

Ibn Ishaq, p. 516—When the apostle had rested, Zaynab d. al-Harith, the wife of Sallam b. Mishkam prepared for him a roast lamb, having first inquired what joint he preferred. When she learned that it was the shoulder she put a lot of poison in it and poisoned the whole lamb. Then she brought it in and placed it before him. He took hold of the shoulder and chewed a morsel of it, but he did not swallow it. Bishr b. al-Bara b. Ma’rur who was with him took some of it as the apostle had done, but he swallowed it, while the apostle spat it out, saying, ‘This bone tells me that it is poisoned.’ Then he called for the woman and she confessed, and when he asked her what had induced her to do this she answered: ‘You know what you have done to my people. I said to myself, If he is a king I shall ease myself of him and if he is a prophet he will be informed (of what I have done).’ So the apostle let her off. Bishr died from what he had eaten.

Ibn Ishaq, p. 516—Marwan b. Uthman b. Abu Sa’id b. al-Mu’alla told me: The apostle had said in his illness of which he was to die when Umm Bishr d. al-Bara came to visit him, ‘O Umm Bishr, this is the time in which I feel a deadly pain from what I ate with your brother at Khaybar.’

At-Tabari, Volume 8, p. 124—The Messenger of God said during the illness from which he died—the mother of Bishr b. al-Bara had come in to visit him—“Umm Bishr, at this very moment I feel my aorta being severed because of the food I ate with your son at Khaybar.”

Ibn Sa’d, Volume 2, pp. 251-252—When the Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, conquered Khaybar and he had peace of mind, Zaynab Bint al-Harith, the brother of Marhab, who was the spouse of Sallam Ibn Mishkam, inquired: Which part of the goat is liked by Muhammad? They said: The foreleg. Then she slaughtered one from her goats and roasted it (the meat). Then she wanted a poison which could not fail. The Jews discussed about poisons and became united on one poison. She poisoned the she-goat putting more poison on the forelegs, and shoulder. When the sun had set and the Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, returned after leading the people in Maghrib (sun-set) prayers, she sat by his feet. He asked her about her. She said: O Abu al-Qasim! Here is a present which I wish to offer to you. The Prophet, may Allah bless him, ordered it to be taken. It was served to him and to his Companions who were present and among those who were present was Bishr Ibn al-Bara Ibn Ma’rur. Then the Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, said: Come closer and have night meal. The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, took the foreleg, a piece of which he put into his mouth. Bishr Ibn al-Bara took another bone and put it into his mouth. When the Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, ate one morsel of it Bishr ate his and other people also ate from it. Then the Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, said: Hold back your hands! Because this foreleg; and according to another version, the shoulder of the goat, has informed me that it is poisoned. Thereupon Bishr said: By Him Who hath made you great! I discovered it from the morsel I took. Nothing prevented me from emitting it out, but the idea that I did not like to make your food unrelishing. When you had eaten what was in your mouth, I did not like to save my life after yours, and I also thought you would not have eaten it if there was something wrong. Bishr did not rise from his seat but his color changed to that of taylsan (a green cloth). For a year the pain did not permit him to change his sides but with the help of others and then he expired. According to another version, he died before leaving his seat. He (Ibn Sa’d) said: A peace of it was dropped before a dog who ate it and died (instantaneously) without being able to move its foreleg. The Apostle of Allah sent for Zaynab Bint al-Harith and said to her: What induced you to do what you have done? She replied: You have done to my people what you have done. You have killed my father, my uncle, and my husband, so I said to myself. If you are a prophet, the foreleg will inform you; and others have said: If you are a king we will get rid of you. The Jewess returned as she had come. He (Ibn Sa’d) said: The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, handed her over to the heirs of Bishr Ibn al-Bara who put her to death.

For further study on this topic, see the following articles:

Sam Shamoun, "How Allah Killed His Prophet"
Silas, "The Death of Muhammad"

266 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 266 of 266
jonnykzj said...

@ J.J.A

Well this appears to be nit picking now. Sure the Quran also uses the moon as a sign but so is the sun as cld be derived when the Quran in oen verse says tht the ppl in the cave "slept in the cave for 300 Years AND then adding 9" demontrates this.
ALSO 365.25 per yr rnds of to 365 n since u cant have quarter of a word this makes sense. NOW with tht said if u have a numerical struture in the Bible tht overrides the Quran's show me plz.

jonnykzj said...

@Search 4 truth

What about the verses in the Bible then which says God sent evil n lying spirits n delusion?


2 Thessalonians 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
Judges 9:23 God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the citizens of Shechem, who acted treacherously against Abimelech.

jonnykzj said...

@Rale

Thaku for all the info. Ill surely look into it. For me BOTH the feeling AND the evidence, reaon n logic r important n i believe that God has provided us with all to recognize the Truth from the falsehood.
NOW u say tht all books can be shown to have these impressive miracles. I wld have to disagree. SURE some books just contain math tricks which r statistically insignifcant to begin with. Others a demon or a devil cld make some such stuff BUT GOD'S WORD WILL OVERRIDE IT STATISTICALLY LIKE NTHING ELSE.

jonnykzj said...

@Search 4 truth

u said:

"Also there and e 365 messianic prophesies of Jesus Christ! And there are 365 days in the year. "

JK- Messianic prophecies and days i think all can agree are far apart n we cld clearly say tht this is an arbitrary selction. If it were Messianic DAYS we were talking abt THEN u wld have a point though.

Search 4 Truth said...

@ Samater

JUST AS I SUSPECTED. YOU WILL IGNORE ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY OF YOUR BELIEFS. YOU ARE UNWILLING TO ACCEPT FACTS IN ORDER TO SUSTAIN YOUR POSITION. YOU HAVE DONE THIS MANY MANY TIMES. GO BURY YOUR HEAD AGAIN!

jonnykzj said...

@D335

"Show us my friend, which part of the fence are you standing. What do you believe?"

JK- I still beleive Quran Alone.

"What is your religion, the state of your believe? (Christian? Muslim? Atheist? Agnostic (pro-theist or pro-atheist)?"

JK- Quran Alone n i prefer the phrase "minal muslimeen" for myself instead of "muslim" so as to distinguish myself from them.

"This is maybe direct, but we do have unfinished arguments on other blogs, since your tactics are:

1. Confuse people by throwing them links and hoping they would all read it. *similar to muslims apologists tactics*"

JK- Shld i post all the stuff here when all the relvant stuff is there. ALSO at times I DID QUOTE THE PTS I CONSIDERED SIGNIFICANT ON THE BLOG ITSELF.

"2. Jumps from topics to topics. I do wonder why you believe in the
- existence of HUMAN HERMAPHRODITE (while throwing links regarding animal hermaphrodite)"

JK- Lets say tht human hermaphrodites didnt exist for a moment which they do even if u maybe right as them having exactly 50% male n 50% female. such exact nos hardly, if ever appear in nature. HOWEVER wht abt the gays and lesbians whose internal structures r INTERNALLY SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT than those of straight humans thus making it impossible for them to be naturally attracted to the oppsoite sex AND THIS IS RECONFIRMED BY HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE ANIMAL KINGDOM. THAT IS if HS was unnatural meaning humans have to forcefully go there then the animals shldnt engage in such by their nature.

"- Soul can be hurt by a knife."

JK- I think i answered tht.

"- Spectrum or levels in heaven or heavens."

JK- We discussed tht.

"- Good deeds will enable christian to apply for promotion in the eyes of the Lord God."

JK- For me these r all very important pts if Christianity is to make sense to me.

"- one great way to show which religion is the true one and that is to show the EFFICACY OF PRAYER VIA STATISTICS. (that's your exact words)."

JK- YEP sure is. And i guess no indepednent observer who isnt Christian or religiously biased wld agree too.

"-Not to mention Demonic babies, Christian SHOULD opt for Death Penalty, etc etc etc."

JK- I said Christians SHLD NOT OPT FOR DP. HOW cld u have misunderstood tht?

"3. Constant mistakes on definitions and verses. Like the one that OT WAS ABOLISHED!. And don't try to make things up because I POINTED THAT MISTAKE and you re-direct that I was the one who's mistaken."

JK- D335 do u actually read my replies. I ACKNOLEDGED MY MISTAKE AT LEAST THREE TIMES NOW. Then i added tht wht i meant though was tht the punishments God ordered for breaking the laws have become obsolote with Jesus' coming.

"--> This is also why everyone must discover your standing first, since you claim to be pro -THEISTIC EVOLUTION- in which a concept of answering biological questions THROUGH SCRIPTURE.
What is your scripture? What do you hold fast?"

JK- BOTH Bible and Quran can be interpreted to support "evolution". infact there is a powerful verse in Genesis of the Bible which states:
Genesis 1:24 And God said, “LET THE EARTH BRING FORTH living creatures according to their kinds..."
It doesnt say God directly created them or did so piece by piece. This sounds similar to natural selction where The "kind" can then be understood that as the sepcies which get reproductively isolated over time. To see how this happens checkout "ring species" at google or wiki.

jonnykzj said...

@hugh watt

"You didn't answer my question.

Q.2:34 And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers."

JK- We can cut jalalayn since im Quran Alone. NOW in the Quran Joseph's family also bowed/prostrated infront of him at the end. NOWEHERE in the Quran is the mere act of bowing/prostraing termed as shirk. Muslims once again by claiming so act stupidly and in defiance of the Quran. FURTHERMORE Christians dont have a prob with tht either since in a theator the actor may well bow, as a sign of respect NOT WORSHIP, infront of the audience. ONLY TO SUNNI/SHIA MUSLIMS WH'ORE ALSO BEING INCONSITENT HERE does this pose any probs.

D335 said...

@JohnyKZJ

Thank you for replying:

"HOWVEVER i wldnt call these folks here my muslim bros/sisters. if any r my bros/sis itd be Quran Alone muslims."

Therefore I wasn't wrong when I told you before that you have many of muslim apologists qualities. Some of that you can find in David Wood's list on the front articles.
Here's what you have on the previous article:

-multiple use of equivocation fallacies. i.e. Murder is taking a soul, and all while you CLAIM that a knife can hurt a soul.
-false scripture: when you mentioned that OT was abolished and you claim that I was thinking of that, rather than pointing Matthew 5:17 to you.
-I was mentioning that your knowledge of Christianity is lacking and you claim of good deeds to gain promotion for levels /spectrum in heaven /heavens. Surely my friend, you have no idea of Christianity rather than enforcing your own Islamic 7-heavens B.S.
-Human hermaphrodite? Did Quran told you to believe in Leprechaun also? and why you threw me links regarding ANIMAL hermaphrodite? and why you suddenly changed the arguments to gay /lesbians? don't you know that Muslims way to solve that is just kill all of em?
-I also now understand that you are lacking any scripture reference of whatever origins that you use. Since you try to hide the Quran lmao.
-too many BS here.
----------------------------------
HOWEVER YOU MENTIONED that you are a follower of Theistic Evolution which is a concept and not a religion or even a believe at all.

Now your cloak has been open by you, yourself.
----------------------------------
And btw, since you deny hadiths and claiming to be a quranist, lol, I bet a lot of folks here will be commenting about how you pray 5 times a day, what direction and so forth.

D335 said...

@Johny

JK- D335 do u actually read my replies. I ACKNOLEDGED MY MISTAKE AT LEAST THREE TIMES NOW. Then i added tht wht i meant though was tht the punishments God ordered for breaking the laws have become obsolote with Jesus' coming.

D335- YES, after you denied it 3 times also, all while pointing that I was the one who misunderstood.
-----------------------------------
subject: Good deeds will enable christian to apply for promotion in the eyes of the Lord God."

JK- For me these r all very important pts if Christianity is to make sense to me.

D335- You are not even a Christian, why do you expect Christianity to make sense for you?
-----------------------------------
subject: one great way to show which religion is the true one and that is to show the EFFICACY OF PRAYER VIA STATISTICS. (that's your exact words)."

JK- YEP sure is. And i guess no indepednent observer who isnt Christian or religiously biased wld agree too.

D335- And therefor according to the statistics, Islam is not the true religion.
-Oh wait, do you pray that Palestine will be free for muslims only? Cause I do love Israel eventho I share not the same religious belief as them!
- Oh wait, according to the statistic Islam is not the true religion since you are a quranist only muslim! And that means you do not read Hadith and know how to pray at all!
----------------------------------
JK- BOTH Bible and Quran can be interpreted to support "evolution".

D335- Yes and if you read more about theistic evolution Tripitaka of Buddhists and Vedas-Upavedas of Hindus or basicly every religion known to man can support theistic evolution.
But let's see Quran, where the sperm is produced on the back bone. That is where biological questions are literally thrown to recycle bin and no more to be ask ever again.
Not even the embrional stages! Quran states bones, muscles, nerves and therefore skin. While that maybe true to muslims scholars but total B.S. to medical science since exo-meso-endo derm were all credit the primitive cells evolve together from morula, blastula to finally an embryo, since a single structure are a waste of it's own.

FYI: Theistic evolution IS the concept of answering biological questions through the eyes of religious scripture.
-Therefor not only "evolution" is discussed, but the basic foundations that are the structure of creationism.

and what about gays/lesbians?
Christians are ordered by Yeshu not to inflict harm and even told to love enemies and pray at those who persecutes them.
Muslim message to gays = KILL EM ALL. (do I need to point that out to you?)
----------------------------------
now try 2 defend that

----------------------------------

Unknown said...

Hi,
@ Samatar
You wrote
My point in bringing up these numerical examples was to explain to minoria that the triple point explaining trinity is not sufficient in any means. I brought up those numerical verses only to show minoria that what she caals a scientific miracle explaining the trinity, I could also bring a numerical miracle for the quran, It was just to refute minoria's point. Read my post again and you will see.

*emphasize mine

The problem is, Minoria didn't even appeal to scientific miracles. Read the article yourself.

The triple point is not a scientific miracle.

Anonymous said...

Math mysteries of the quran

http://islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=848:on-mathematical-miracles-in-the-koran&catid=73:brahmachari&Itemid=58

Quran quotes -reference

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Islamic_Quotes_Murder.Islam

http://www.islamawareness.net/

http://www.meforum.org/2675/hamas-web-school-suicide-bombers

http://www.shoebat.com/images/palestinianJustice/palestinianJustice.php

http://kleinverzet.blogspot.com/p/fjordman-files.html

jonnykzj said...

@David Wood

I posted other replies besides the last one till now here as well. Did they not appear so u cld approve them?

jonnykzj said...

@David Wood

Oh sorry i forgot tht after a nr of posts they appear on a next page

jonnykzj said...

@D335

"Therefore I wasn't wrong when I told you before that you have many of muslim apologists qualities. Some of that you can find in David Wood's list on the front articles.
Here's what you have on the previous article:

-multiple use of equivocation fallacies. i.e. Murder is taking a soul, and all while you CLAIM that a knife can hurt a soul."

JK- A knife CANNOT hurt the soul DIRECTLY.

"-false scripture: when you mentioned that OT was abolished and you claim that I was thinking of that, rather than pointing Matthew 5:17 to you.
-I was mentioning that your knowledge of Christianity is lacking and you claim of good deeds to gain promotion for levels /spectrum in heaven /heavens. Surely my friend, you have no idea of Christianity rather than enforcing your own Islamic 7-heavens B.S."

JK- This had nothing to do with 7 heavens. THOSE i always understood as 7 distinct layers/realms in this universe yet to be discovered.

"-Human hermaphrodite? Did Quran told you to believe in Leprechaun also? and why you threw me links regarding ANIMAL hermaphrodite? and why you suddenly changed the arguments to gay /lesbians? don't you know that Muslims way to solve that is just kill all of em?"

JK- Well not according to the Quran. IM not a hadith muslim, remember?

"-I also now understand that you are lacking any scripture reference of whatever origins that you use. Since you try to hide the Quran lmao."

JK- I didnt want to discuss the Quran BUT sinec u broght it up both the Bible n Quran cld be interpreted such tht gays and lesbians, who cant feel otherwise, r seprate from heteros engaing in such activities by choosing so.

"-too many BS here."

JK- I cld the same of u.

"HOWEVER YOU MENTIONED that you are a follower of Theistic Evolution which is a concept and not a religion or even a believe at all."

JK- I never said it is a religion. But as i pointed out both the Bibl and Quran can be understood in harmony with evolution. MY PT HERE was not to challenge the Bible based on this BUT SOME CHRISTIANS UNDERSTANDING OF IT just like i challenged muslims understanding of the quran in the past.

"Now your cloak has been open by you, yourself.
----------------------------------
And btw, since you deny hadiths and claiming to be a quranist, lol, I bet a lot of folks here will be commenting about how you pray 5 times a day, what direction and so forth."

JK Right n my answer wld be I DO NOT PRAY 5 TIMES. I ONLY ACCEPT 3 SALAT n am even thinking if "salat" means prayer at all. ALSO i do not accept the concept of a physical direction at all n reject the kaaba being such. SEE NOW U MADE ASSUMPTIONS ABT ME. I DDINT BECOME ANGRY THOUGH BUT EXPLAIEND MYSELF.

jonnykzj said...

@D335

"D335- YES, after you denied it 3 times also, all while pointing that I was the one who misunderstood."

JK- I can barely remember denying it once BUT if so im sorry. Is tht settled now?

"D335- You are not even a Christian, why do you expect Christianity to make sense for you?"

JK- Coz for the past couple of weeks ive had a warm feeling abt Christianity. INFACT whenever i heard the bells of a church nearby i used to have tht. I cant just sweep all tht under the rug BUT AT THE SAME TIME it also has to make sense n be consistent. Desires alone cld still be misleading.


"D335- And therefor according to the statistics, Islam is not the true religion."

JK- Sunni/shia orthodox islam. DEFITELY AGREE. Quran Alone islam. Well thts the big qs.

"-Oh wait, do you pray that Palestine will be free for muslims only? Cause I do love Israel eventho I share not the same religious belief as them!"

JK- Ive been more on israel's side ever since i beacme Quran Alone. Once i even rejoiced at Israel attacking hamas BUT now ive calmed tht down since tht too wld be exaggeration.

"- Oh wait, according to the statistic Islam is not the true religion since you are a quranist only muslim! And that means you do not read Hadith and know how to pray at all!"

JK- I dont accept tht God demand any particular gesture in prayer like those hadithists claim. i pray like i plz only inc prostrations.

"D335- Yes and if you read more about theistic evolution Tripitaka of Buddhists and Vedas-Upavedas of Hindus or basicly every religion known to man can support theistic evolution."

JK- Possiblybut one can support it best/most. So if i see the Bible supporting it tht, n the day MAY come, thtd draw me closer to it.

"But let's see Quran, where the sperm is produced on the back bone. That is where biological questions are literally thrown to recycle bin and no more to be ask ever again."

JK- Well 1st the verse doesnt use the term "munnee(sperm)" but "maain daafiq(gushing water)". sure it may intrpreted to be semen. BUT then also "YAkhruju" i.e. "to come out" can refer incontext NOT to the semen which is two verses be4 BUT T THE PERSON ITSELF who's mentioned just a verse before tht.

jonnykzj said...

"Not even the embrional stages! Quran states bones, muscles, nerves and therefore skin. While that maybe true to muslims scholars but total B.S. to medical science since exo-meso-endo derm were all credit the primitive cells evolve together from morula, blastula to finally an embryo, since a single structure are a waste of it's own."

JK- This is true. BUT the term "thumma" can also mean "simulatnaeusly" or "moreover" and has infact even been translated as such by Yusuf Ali at other places.

"FYI: Theistic evolution IS the concept of answering biological questions through the eyes of religious scripture."

JK- Yes and if done so it matches with the understanding derived from nature as well.

"-Therefor not only "evolution" is discussed, but the basic foundations that are the structure of creationism."

JK- If u mean creaionism in the sense tht God is the ultimate Source behind it all,sure but if usually "cretionism2 is used in the sense of "special direct piece by iece creation".

"and what about gays/lesbians?
Christians are ordered by Yeshu not to inflict harm and even told to love enemies and pray at those who persecutes them."

JK- That i know. BUT one shld even look further n see whether gays n lesbians r comitting a sin at all. FOR IF THERE VERY INTERNAL STRUCTURES lead them naturally to be attratced only in the way they do wht sense wld it make for their acts to be unnatural or sinful? SO once cld resolve this by saing gays and lesbians R NOT MEN N WOMEN IN THE BIBLICAL SENSE AT ALL just like e.g. beings resulting from the fallen angels engaing with men cld be understood to be not under the category male/female accrding to Bible or perhaps even conjoined twins. Ever thght abt tht?

"Muslim message to gays = KILL EM ALL. (do I need to point that out to you?)"

JK- This is not the case for Quran alone.

Fernando said...

Samatar Mohamed pointed to qur'an passges whee Jesus name apears...

really? don't you know thate the qur'anic Isa does not have anything to do withe the true historical Jesus portraitte in the Bible and in other historical texts prior to the existence of muhammad? Isa is a fictional and rethorical caracther crated bie teh qur'an author with pieces from gnostic sects thate existed in teh Arabic Peninsula at thbe time of muhammad...

more: can you tell us all by whate name Jesus was known in the arabic language prior to teh qur'an? I bet you'll have a surprise...

Fernando said...

Samatar Mohamed pointed to qur'an passges whee Jesus name apears...

really? don't you know thate the qur'anic Isa does not have anything to do withe the true historical Jesus portraitte in the Bible and in other historical texts prior to the existence of muhammad? Isa is a fictional and rethorical caracther crated bie teh qur'an author with pieces from gnostic sects thate existed in teh Arabic Peninsula at thbe time of muhammad...

more: can you tell us all by whate name Jesus was known in the arabic language prior to teh qur'an? I bet you'll have a surprise...

D335 said...

@JohnyKZJ

JK- Well 1st the verse doesnt use the term "munnee(sperm)" but "maain daafiq(gushing water)". sure it may intrpreted to be semen. BUT then also "YAkhruju" i.e. "to come out" can refer incontext NOT to the semen which is two verses be4 BUT T THE PERSON ITSELF who's mentioned just a verse before tht.

D335- what are you trying to explain here? Define it clearly what comes out from where and how.

---------------------------------
Quranist alone? this might be fun.

JK- I dont accept tht God demand any particular gesture in prayer like those hadithists claim. i pray like i plz only inc prostrations.

D335 - So are you telling me by Quran that you have read, you are not told to pray in the direction of Mecca?
---------------------------------

D335 on gays and lesbians.

---------------------------------

I have a feeling that you (JohnyKZJ) are interested in this subject. All Judeo-Christianity root religion including Islam are all against homosexual very explicitly. Remember that even Islam learn from Christians and therefor originated from the Jews.

I don't know why you are so inclined /interested in this subject, but since we probably never meet in person, so let's get it clear, anyway. If you are a homosexual, I will neither judge you to my standard because I will be judge by my own standard.

as according to:
LUKE 6:37
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

So let's discuss the problem first:
-not many Christian, Muslims, Jews discussed it in depth since mostly they are heterosexuals.
-once they have the problem in the open, not many keeps tending to the scripture rather to meet directly with religious directive (that is saying a big NO NO)
-Jews and Islam are the most strict regarding homosexual therefore condemning it most of the time by death.

Now let's discuss exit clause.
- From the eyes of medical science, homosexuality is considered as SEXUAL PREFERENCE. In which I referred you to DSM IV previously. By that standard definition, homosexuality is not considered as ILLNESS but PREFERENCE.
- From the POV of Christianity, yet I must remind you not every Christians lead the same path just like the other 2, but must apply without a doubt the concept of LOVE.
That means they cannot harm or hurt a homosexual by means of psychological or physical properties just because they are homosexuals.
(Read this carefully at least twice before we move on.)
To divert from that concept of love is to breach TWO MAJOR commandments.

The Greatest Commandment
Matthew 22:34-40 (open biblegateway)

34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[d] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

D335 said...

A lot of things that we, human, has not clearly understood and yet we must not forget about the progress of science and discovery. Christianity itself is considered by terminology "Christian Science" which means evolving.

Now there are passages regarding "eunuchs" and "celibacy" in the New Testament but I don't think it will be any help for the homosexual that choose Christianity as the faith, but I do believe choosing Jesus as the God and Savior itself considered them as Christian.

-Regarding the law that condemns "homosexuality" in Christianity, I would like to point:

Romans 7: 7
What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “Do not covet.”

Futher to explain my point, homosexuality is considered a sin. But must remember that it is HUMAN NATURE TO SIN.

Romans 6: 19-20
19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.

Romans 8: 1-4
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,a 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature.

If you are however to discuss indepth about the homosexual nature and the concept of sin in Christianity, I would gladly so.

But again, try to put your WHOLE VIEW first rather than pasting a comment to every paragraph here. I want to know your FULL VIEW about Homosexuality according to the scripture that you believe.

D335

jonnykzj said...

@D335

Sorry to bring this up but regarding the spectrum of heaven as far as i can remember the Bible says clearly that "Jesus will judge everyone on the day of resurrection for everything weve ever thought or said or done". What is this for if all Christians have equal closeness to God anyways?

hugh watt said...

JK

You still haven't answered. Prove from the Koran alone that Muhammad was a prophet.

Joseph and his family were of the same nature. When they prostrated before Joseph this would not be the case of an higher being prostrating to the lesser, which was what Iblis objected to.

Q.2:256 There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

If there is no compulsion then why:

Q.47:4 So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

D335 said...

@JohnyKZJ

Oh JohnyKZJ, I'm not the assyrian encyclopedia ^^. He's good looking but I'm better :)
Please for the love of God, search bible gateway first.

And anyway, let see Jesus role as the Judge in the day of resurrection.

1. God sees everything. If this what you meant by God knows everything that we taught, see and done.

Hebrews 4:13.
13And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Ecclesiastes 12:14.
"For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil."

Wait. Does it mean what you did still gets you salvation?

2. Are we not to be judged by God? We do!

(Matthew 7:1-4)
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: And with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

So are we free from judgement? If we are to be judge by God, we are surely the looser part. Why? cause 1000 good deeds are not equal to a single sin! not even a million or more!

And yet we are to be judged!

3. Intercession. Jesus is the way of salvation.

NOTICE THE VERY FIRST SUBJECT ABOUT WHO WILL BE THE JUDGE.

(Matthew 25:31-36, 40-43, 45-46 NRSV)
"When the Son of Man comes in His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats, and He will set the sheep on His right hand but the goats at the left. Then the king will say to those on His right hand, “Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.” ... “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My Brethren, you did it to me.”

"Then He will also say to those on the left hand, “Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.” ... “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


Whoa, does it means JESUS BE THE JUDGE? Yes.
Does it means all that good deeds are counted as a promotion or special access to heaven stages 1-2-3-4-5-6-7?
- Jesus from that passage told that He will remove those who don't believe in him to eternal damnation, eternal separation from glory of God.
- And of course gather those who believes in him, and give them a gift of eternal life, (taken from shamoun words) basking in the glory of God.

***Does it indicates special status in heaven among others who'd be saved? nope.
But if I were you, I wouldn't loose hope, keep trying to find it my friend ^^ Who knows you can give an input that assured me wrong.

----------------------------------

Here's for you to read of what happen in day of judgement.

Matthew 13:40-43:
"Just as the weeds are collected and burned up with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and they will throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let anyone with ears listen!"

(play Johny Cash's song "the man comes around" you'll love it ^^)

D335

betwixt said...

Hello, everyone. Here's a transcript of the video.

Transcript: "Who Killed Muhammad?" by David Wood

Osama Abdallah said...

This is a duplicate post from another thread. The post is about this thread's topic, which is why I am requesting for it to be posted here as well.

"@ Osama

Did Allah tell Mohamed to eat the lamb?

Bukhari's Hadith 3.786:
Narrated Anas bin Malik: A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah's Apostle."

RESPONSE:

Good question. Here is my response:


1- I am not sure what exactly happened back then and there. I watched David Wood's video, and read some of the references and see the point. But I am not sure if the event actually did happen.

2- The Glorious Quran is crystal clear in warning Prophet Muhammad. Double will be his punishment if he strays away, and his aorta will be cut/severed if he lies (EVEN A SINGLE LIE OR BS-TYPE JOKE).

3- Even if we assume the worst case scenario and accept that the poisoning of the Prophet, peace be upon him, did occur, then still none of this would disprove Islam. Why?

4- Because the Glorious Quran's Miracle is in Itself! There are Scientific Miracles in the Glorious Quran, and there is the "GREAT ONE (i.e., Miracle" that Allah Almighty put in the Holy Book to:

(a)- Strengthen the Believer's Faith and to increase it even more.

(b)- To assure the People of the Book (i.e., the Jews and Christians) that the Quran is not an invention of man.

*******This GREAT MIRACLE is the Number 19 Miracle:

[074:030] And over that (scorcher) are nineteen (angels standing guard).

[074:031] We have chosen to appoint the angels as wardens over hell, ********and We let their number be a trial for the unbelievers. So that, those given the scriptures may believe, and the believers may increase in their belief. Both _ those given the scriptures and the believers _ may not entertain doubts. Yet, those with disease in their hearts, and the unbelievers, would still say, “What does Allah mean by this example?” Thus, Allah leads astray whom He wants, and guides whom He wants. No one knows the forces of Allah except He. This is nothing but a reminder for the mortals.

[074:032] No! (I) swear by the moon!
[074:033] The night, as it retreats.
[074:034] And the dawn as it glows!
********[074:035] Indeed, it (i.e., the number 19 Sign/Miracle in the Glorious Quran) is surely one of the mightiest (signs).

Arabic (from right to left):
‏74:30 عليها تسعة عشر
‏74:31 وماجعلنا اصحاب النار الا ملائكة وماجعلنا عدتهم الا فتنة للذين كفروا ليستيقن الذين اوتوا الكتاب ويزداد الذين امنوا ايمانا ولايرتاب الذين اوتوا الكتاب والمؤمنون وليقول الذين في قلوبهم مرض والكافرون ماذا اراد الله بهذا مثلا كذلك يضل الله من يشاء ويهدي من يشاء ومايعلم جنود ربك الا هو وماهي الا ذكرى للبشر
‏74:32 كلا والقمر
‏74:33 والليل اذ ادبر
‏74:34 والصبح اذا اسفر
‏74:35 انها لاحدى الكبر


For more details, please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm

5- I am a worshiper of Allah Almighty only. I am not a worshiper of Muhammad. If Muhammad fell short and was punished by Allah Almighty as Allah Almighty Promised Him (if he were to fall short in life), then Muhammad bears his own faults. It has nothing to do with the Glorious Quran and Its Divine Miracles.

David, feel free to make a new thread on this so we can discuss it in great details. I'd like to nail this one for everyone. I respect your hard work and commitment to your convictions! I think you're a sincere and hard-working and smart man. I wish you can see Islam's Truth one day, insha'Allah. Ameen.

Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

Zack_Tiang said...

Quran 033.021
YUSUFALI: Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.
PICKTHAL: Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much.
SHAKIR: Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent exemplar for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.

Muhammad was Islam's greatest example/role model for all Muslims to follow.... and he died by the hands of Allah himself due to his false deed/s...

So no, Osama, if Muhammad falls short, all of Islam falls short, because even Islam's greatest exemplar/role model to be imitated by all other followers was slain by Allah.

Osama Abdallah said...

All,

David Wood's video is now refuted at: www.answering-christianity.com/who_killed_muhammad_rebuttal.wmv.


Osama Abdallah
www.answering-christianity.com

''La illaha ilallah Muhammadun Rasool Allah'' said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
''La illaha ilallah Muhammadun Rasool Allah'' said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Zack_Tiang said...

Farhan completely fails in reason and logic.... My gosh, it's so bad, it's not sad.

Zack_Tiang said...

CORRECTION: My gosh, it's so bad, it's sad.

''La illaha ilallah Muhammadun Rasool Allah'' said...

1st christians&david wood donot believe Quran as word of God and Islam as a true relegion

2nd
then y other christians&davidwood is trusting on Ahadith
and Quran to proove Muhammad SAW as false prophet which is illogical and refute david wood himself

3rd
if david wood trying to proove from Quran-o-Hadith prophecies Muhammad SAW pbuh as false Prophet(which He wasnt) then it means David wood has become MUSLIM so he is trusting Quran and Hadith which are reall revelation of God to him so
Congratulations to DAVID WOOD&All other christians commenting here for becomming Muslims!

4th
suppose if Muhammad SAW pbuh lied which he didnt and Allah(GOD)have killed him which Allah(God)didnt but poor jewess tried her best but failed which Ahadith clears,& every1 know the status of jews as per bible they were cursed by almighty God&famous in killing Prophets
then does it make any sense God left Muhammad SAW pbuh to live 4years after that if he was a liar(which he wasnt)?God left Him(SAW) alive for what to LIE more to people for 4 more years?obviously no, but left him alive for HIS SAW PBUH'S&ALLAH'S(GOD'S)MISSION of Quranic revelation(the last final message of God)to be completed!& again if u think he was a liar which(He SAW PBUH wasnt) does it make any sense to u God left him alive for 4 more years to lie to people david wood?oviously it doesnt make any sense&ur claim is illogical& u never think b4 posting now dont say u donot trust Islamic God as u are a Muslim now LOL

hahahah at u david!

CONCLUSION:
it has been prooved from my response that your claim is nonsense illogical&refuted logically.

''La illaha ilallah Muhammadun Rasool Allah'' said...

@Zack_Tiang

o really i am fail?my post is logicall will u accept it?no coz u r a christian as u donot accept the truth nor u have courage 2, &ur 3 words to me didnt prooved my failure proove it!

btw christians are so excited to explore Quran and Hadith and twist words against MUHAMMAD SAW PBUH and to show that their bible is full word of God &just be a christian or jew and Jesus pbuh was perfect bla bla btw lets find out what bible say lets c where Jesus pbuh stands as per bible

But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect. Jesus mathew5:48


But anyone who says 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire? of hell." (Jesus) Mat 5:22

"You fools!" (Jesus) Luke 11:40

"You blind fools!" (Jesus) Mat 23:17

"How foolish you are" (Jesus) Luke 24:25

"But God said to him, 'You fool!' "(Jesus) Luke 12:20

"You foolish Galatians!"(St. Paul) Galatians 3:1

"You foolish man" James 2:20


now from these verses we see that Jesus pbuh said God is perfect but Jesus PBUH is in danger of hellfire as per bible so fst he is not God second paul is also in danger of hellfire as per verses now should we muslims say
Jesus pbuh was false prophet coz he is in danger of hellfire as per bible?

offcourse not because we(muslims) know its the corruption of bible which shows!!!
FUNNY
LOL

John 8:24 said...

Farhan,

First, it does help to write in English that is understandable and readable. Second, I don't know how old you are but your logic, seemingly, is no better than a 4th grader - so don't act boastfully. Third, you comments are so off the chart that even your Muslim brothers (i.e. smarter ones) will be ashamed of you.

''La illaha ilallah Muhammadun Rasool Allah'' said...

@john
actually the problem is with you
who cannot answer and starts insult&donot ask my age ok?

better answer the questions if you are so logical&

u know that my comments have refuted you if not why cannot u give answer to my claim why jesus pbuh is in danger of hellfire as per bible?

and why are you trusting a Quranic prophecy to proove Muhammad SAW pbuh as false prophet? if Quran is a false book as per christians?

so is their claim make any sense?
any intelligent man can tell that is a nonsense claim, as Quran clearly says God would have kill Prophet Muhammad SAW even if he had spoke a lie

and God left him alive for 4 years does it make any sense?4 years to lie people? what kinda logic is that?

obviously u will insult me because you donot have any answer!

or if you are so smarter then me and as per you said muslims will ashame at me

then provide me the answers beside insulting me&b4 u get ashame of yourself!

Zack_Tiang said...

Farhan,

It is not that your comments have refuted us, hence we do not answer you...

Your comments are completely nonsense and not logical, that's why we don't even bother to.
But for your own sake, I will explain.

1 - It is true we do not believe Quran is the Word of the true God as it is true that you do not believe the Bible is the word of Allah.

2 - But you as a Muslim do! That's why we quote the Quran for you.

3 - You just did the exact same thing as what you accused us of doing; quoting the Bible when you yourself do not believe it is the word of Allah.
So have you become a Christian, Farhan? Or is this logically nonsensical and childish to say?
(If you answered 'no, I haven't', then you must agree that "your claim is nonsense illogical&refuted logically".)

4 - We did not merely believe Muhammad is false and therefore we refuse to believe. The bible tells us to "TEST ALL THINGS to see if it is true." And Muhammad and the Quran have been put to the test and have been found false in many different ways.

5 - Muhammad suffered throughout the time he was poisoned and he himself was reported to say that he felt as though his aorta was being cut. Muhammad himself was reported to have said it. And since you believe he is a prophet, he can't be wrong in what he said unless he himself pointed out he was wrong (which is very weird for a prophet to do).
It doesn't matter how long it took for him to die, the fact is Muhammad said his aorta was being cut.

Now you have been answered and sorry to say, I highly doubt we will see a good response from you.
I suggest you learn more (about forming logic and reasoning) before you speak again.

Gregory said...

I was thinking about becoming a muslim until I talked to a guy who became a muslim so that he could marry a muslima. He said the really painful part of the whole process was when they drilled a hole into his head and sucked out half of his brains.

''La illaha ilallah Muhammadun Rasool Allah'' said...

@zack_tiang

not my but your comments are nonsense and show your low brain power
nor your comments replied my asked questions
now read

1 now u said and accept u donot believe Quran as word of true God right?so u quote that to us
now isnt Quran 69:46-49 the prophecy of Quran and Allah?
now if you donot believe Quran as the word of Allah nor Allah is your God why are you quoting it as prophecy of Allah being fullfilled?offcourse Quran69:46-49 is not a biblical prophecy so it refutes u and it makes u look like nonsense&illogical when u quote it or in one way ur believing it Quranic prophecy of 69:44-46 becomming true even with ur wrong understanding

2 yes we as muslims believe Quran is the only true word of Allah alive and will
be alive after judgement day too

3 why we muslims quote bible i think ur childish brain donot think
now learn why we quote bible to you our quoting of bible to you make sense but your quoting of Quran to us doesnot make any sense
LOL guess y?
Because Quran say to Muslims to believe what was revealed before you and yes injeel which you called(bible falsely) was revealed by Allah SWT
before us but it has been corrupted and Quran-o-Hadith confirms that, now u will ask where it is corrupted and why are u believing it if its corrupted
so my dear not all bible some part of its word of God, but it have corruptions&contradictions in bible which are visible like black&white and any intelligent reader can tell that so the visible lies in bible cannot be denied

so as per Muslim beliefs we can quote Injeel(bible) as we believed it was revealed before us&so we can quote bible to u

but that is not the case with u coz according to your christianic false beliefs, Allah is not your God and u totally belief Quran is false book so u cannot even quote it if u do quote Quranic prophecies and show us they are fullfilled means ur trusting Quran as true divine book and word of Almighty Allah(God)

so u cannot quote it doing it will refute yourself


4 its very funny comment by u bible say u to test all these things? HAHAHAHAHA!!!
but very sad u cannot test corruptions in your bible as i showed you just a small thing

jesus pbuh, paul and God of bible as per bible is in danger of hellfire nor u know the orignal name from where u get name Jesus? its Isoun not jesus as per greek manuscripts!nor u able to test it so ur testings are fully fail


But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect. Jesus mathew5:48


But anyone who says 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire? of hell." (Jesus) Mat 5:22

"You fools!" (Jesus) Luke 11:40

"You blind fools!" (Jesus) Mat 23:17

"How foolish you are" (Jesus) Luke 24:25

"But God said to him, 'You fool!' "(Jesus) Luke 12:20

"You foolish Galatians!"(St. Paul) Galatians 3:1

"You foolish man" James 2:20

LOL

?
now isnt it the corruption to you? does Quran says that or bible?
will u still say bible is true but not Quran? if u will say bible is true means u are an antichrist coz bible sends Jesus pbuh into hellfire Nauzubillah LOL

Continue

''La illaha ilallah Muhammadun Rasool Allah'' said...

5 now what should people choose as reall pure form of word of God

bible? that sends Isoun pbuh in hellfire?
or Quran? which glorify Isoun pbuh

obviously Quran and no doubt Quran is truth&Muhammad SAW was the true prophet&glorify Isa pbuh

atleast not send him to hellfire as bible do!!!


6 as per your claim trusting on the base of Allah SWT and Quran on who killed Muhammad SAW PBUH, is False and nonsense why coz to any intelligent person it doesnot make any sense
on one place Allah is saying to cut his aorta if Muhammad SAW put false on him and clearly mentioned in the Hadiths food i ate at khaiber now the thing is who given him that food?
a JEWESS or God?or jewess was sent by God LOL suppose if that jewess was sent by God to kill Muhammad SAW pbuh on his lie which actually she wasnt then what maked Muhammad saw pbuh to spat it out?who tells Muhammad SAW to spat it out after taste? why he didnt swallowed it like bishr?was Allah's God's target was Muhammad SAW or bishr? if Allah wanted to kill Muhammad and Muhammad knowed sheep is poisoned then it makes Allah(God) weaker then a human Muhammad SAW Nauzubillah which is illogicall and every1 knows the status of jews how they were cursed&love to kill prophets as per bible why it isnt said to arabs? that u kill prophets y just to jews? because u have to accept they were a cursed nation now lets c

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! (From the KJV Bible, Matthew 23:37)"

"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (From the KJV Bible, Matthew 21:43)"


"So I will disgrace the dignitaries of your temple, and I will consign Jacob to destruction and Israel to scorn. (From the NIV Bible, Isaiah 43:28)"


And [recall] when you said, "O Moses, we can never endure one [kind of] food. So call upon your Lord to bring forth for us from the earth its green herbs and its cucumbers and its garlic and its lentils and its onions." [Moses] said, "Would you exchange what is better for what is less? Go into [any] settlement and indeed, you will have what you have asked." And they were covered with humiliation and poverty and returned with anger from Allah [upon them]. That was because they [repeatedly] disbelieved in the signs of Allah and killed the prophets without right. That was because they disobeyed and were [habitually] transgressing.

Quran2:61

and much more verses jews are cursed in bible&Quran both

so at fst jews were cursed by God in Quran&bible as they always disobeyed God

so will Allah choose a jewess? a lady of cursed nation? to kill Muhammad SAW pbuh?

is illogical

Continue

''La illaha ilallah Muhammadun Rasool Allah'' said...

plus
&Quran confirms its not necessary that aorta is only cut by lieing on God in Quran 3:144, nor we see any false or blasphemy by Muhammad SAW pbuh to Allah in Quran-o-Hadith we just find praise praise praise of Allah by Muhammad saw in Quran-o-Hadith not like blasphemies to God in bible like in bible God spread dungs on people faces God broke promises God's nostrills throw fire and much more. +ur blaiming Muhammad SAW falsely nw read

Muhammad is not but a messenger. [Other] messengers have passed on before him. So if he was to die or be killed, would you turn back on your heels [to unbelief]? And he who turns back on his heels will never harm Allah at all; but Allah will reward the grateful. 3:144Quran

and as u read in ahadith jewess tried her best to give him SAW pbuh poison and kill him but she failed and clearly in hadith food of khaibar or posionous sheep is mentioned which was posined by a cursed jewess

But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."Deuteronomy18:20

and as per verses given above of bible which sends jesus pbuh to hellfire from those blasphemous verses jesus pbuh must be put to death by disobeying his own commands Nauzubillah but sad to say

these blasphemies&lies of which i shown u from bible are not in Quran-o-Hadith which impose false on God and his prophets

so once again nowhere it makes logic that Muhammad saw put false on his God
its totally a fail argument
and

u said it doesnt matter how long it took hahaha! actually that sentence of u make u show that u donot have any logical reply just said it doesnt matter?

it matters donot u see in ahadith Muhammad SAW pbuh mentioned food at khaiber which makes him feel like his aorta is cut still he live 4 years after that& doesnot matter on that said by u is not logical! very FUNNY


now if as per thinking of any intelligent man reading 69:44-46
Allah would kill him as quick he lie which he didnt

so if Allah have to kill Muhammad SAW pbuh on his lie as by poisoning him in khaiber, would Allah leave him alive to more lie for 4 more years as we all know Quran was revealed in 23 years if Muhammad had been effected from poison at age of 59 it lead him to live 4 more years? for what? to lie more to people?

to an intelligent man it doesnot make any logic that God leave him alive 4 more years to lie more to people if that poisonus food was given to him by God which is actually was from a lady of a cursed jewish nation who were famous for killing prophets
which he is discussing in Ahadith from which his aorta being fell as cutt off maked him alive 4 more years to lie people? thats strange and funny logic by christians LOL

still if it make u any sense God killed him on his lie? then you are living in a cave+all the prophets killed by jews are liars according to ur damage brain!

so in both of the cases ur allegations are illknowledgeable and illogical&refuted aorta was fell as cutt off coz of cursed killer jewess not because of Allah swt and we have seen status of jews what they did to older prophets.


hence prooved your all arguments are fail&in all cases

''i dont think so but i
hope u get this refutation response in your brain ameen still u will accept bible as truth and Quran false in ego? wont work&u will be an antichrist by accepting jesus pbuh in hellfire as per bible!!!

Zack_Tiang said...

I rest my case.

I ain't gonna answer to any further non-logic and logically self-refuting nonsense.

Good day, Farhan. I pray you will mature from this.

''La illaha ilallah Muhammadun Rasool Allah'' said...

@Zack_tiang

rest your case? very funny and good way to run

poor christian running out of hell

self refuted nonsense is not me but you who quote Quran by believing it as a false book
nor u pointed me where i am self refuted?just saying it like abnormal person

and if u r couragefull or true son of your father you should reply me

why jesus pbuh is in hellfire as per bible and why are you accepting this book as true word of God?which send Jesus pbuh in hellfire

and we quote bible coz we believe what was revealed before us and if jesus pbuh as prophet but u donot believe Quran as true book or Muhammad as prophet

then why u Quote it?
isnt it your foolishness?
it refute u people yourself

strange
u didnt answer these things then who is refuted nonsense obviously u urself

i think u are embarrased thats why u r running to answer nor u can do coz i know when christians got owned they put insults on others and run away just like u and u know that!

''La illaha ilallah Muhammadun Rasool Allah'' said...

also whoever is claiming Muhammad said false Nauzubillah from Quran 69:44-46
but donot read the context, his claim is false because if ur accepting 69:44-46 as truth to proove your point it wont help without quoting the context&verses next to it
coz it would refute u if u quote out of context

or u are believing just 2verses then you have to believe whole sura too

so once again if ur believing just 2 verses then you have to accept whole sura read it in context specially verse 51

as Allah swt has predicted in the same Sura-l-Haq 69:51

Mohsin Khan: And Verily, it (this Quran) is an absolute truth with certainty.
Quran 69:51


Mohsin Khan: And Verily, it (this Quran) is an absolute truth with certainty .Quran 69:51

it has been proove clearly Allah swt has confirmed in the same Sura 69 that this Quran is an absoulute truth

what that means Allah swt explaining us in same sura 69 quoted by christians that Quran revealed to Muhammad saw pbuh is an absoulute truth and if Quran is truth what that means from context Muhammad SAW pbuh will not speak any false this was just an assumption given to disbelievers who doubt about Muhammad saw pbuh

if you read the complete tafsir david wood has just pasted little tafsir of 2 verses coz he know whole tafsir will refute himself

''La illaha ilallah Muhammadun Rasool Allah'' said...

If the Prophet forged anything against Allah, then Allah would punish Him

Allah says,

وَلَوْ تَقَوَّلَ عَلَيْنَا بَعْضَ الْأَقَاوِيلِ ﴿٤٤﴾

And if he had forged a false saying concerning Us,

meaning, `if Muhammad forged something against Us, as they claim, and added or removed anything from the Message, or said anything from himself while attributing it to Us, then We would surely be swift in punishing him.

And of course, Muhammad did not do any of this (as the disbelievers claimed).'

Thus, Allah says,

لَأَخَذْنَا مِنْهُ بِالْيَمِينِ ﴿٤٥﴾

We surely would have seized him by his right hand,

It has been said that this means,

`We would seize him by the right hand because it is more stronger in grabbing.'

ثُمَّ لَقَطَعْنَا مِنْهُ الْوَتِينَ ﴿٤٦﴾

And then We certainly would have cut off Al-Watin from him,

Ibn `Abbas said,

"It (Al-Watin) refers to the artery of the heart, and it is the vein that is attached to the heart.''

This has also been said by `Ikrimah, Sa`id bin Jubayr, Al-Hakim, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak, Muslim Al-Batin and Abu Sakhr Humayd bin Ziyad.

Muhammad bin Ka`b said,

"It (Al-Watin) is the heart, its blood, and whatever is near it.''

Concerning Allah's statement,

فَمَا مِنكُم مِّنْ أَحَدٍ عَنْهُ حَاجِزِينَ ﴿٤٧﴾

And none of you could have prevented it from him.

means, `none of you would be able to come between Us and him if We wanted to do any of this to him.'

The meaning behind all of this is to say that he (Muhammad) is truthful, righteous and guided because Allah determined what he is to convey from Him, and Allah helps him with fantastic miracles and definite proofs.

Then Allah says,

وَإِنَّهُ لَتَذْكِرَةٌ لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ ﴿٤٨﴾

And verily, this (Qur'an) is a Reminder for those who have Taqwa.

meaning, the Qur'an.

This is just as Allah says,

قُلْ هُوَ لِلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ هُدًى وَشِفَآءٌ وَالَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ فِى ءَاذَانِهِمْ وَقْرٌ وَهُوَ عَلَيْهِمْ عَمًى

Say:

"It is for those who believe, a guide and a healing. And as for those who disbelieve, there is heaviness (deafness) in their ears, and it (the Qur'an) is blindness for them.''

Then Allah says,

وَإِنَّا لَنَعْلَمُ أَنَّ مِنكُم مُّكَذِّبِينَ ﴿٤٩﴾

And verily, We know that there are some among you that deny (this Qur'an).

meaning, with this explanation and clarification, there will still be among you those who reject the Qur'an.

Then Allah says,

وَإِنَّهُ لَحَسْرَةٌ عَلَى الْكَافِرِينَ ﴿٥٠﴾

And indeed it (this Qur'an) will be an anguish for the disbelievers (on the Day of Resurrection).

Ibn Jarir said,

"And verily this rejection will be anguish for the disbelievers on the Day of Judgement.''

He (Ibn Jarir) also mentioned a similar statement from Qatadah.

It is possible that the meaning of the pronoun (it) may also refer to the Qur'an, in which case the verse would mean that the Qur'an and belief in it are a cause of anguish for the disbelievers.

This is as Allah says,

كَذَلِكَ سَلَكْنَاهُ فِي قُلُوبِ الْمُجْرِمِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِهِ

Thus have We caused it (the denial of the Qur'an) to enter the hearts of the criminals. They will not believe in it. (26:200,201)

And Allah said,

وَحِيلَ بَيْنَهُمْ وَبَيْنَ مَا يَشْتَهُونَ

And a barrier will be set between them and that which they desire. (34:54)

Therefore, Allah says here,

وَإِنَّهُ لَحَقُّ الْيَقِينِ ﴿٥١﴾

And verily, it (this Qur'an) is an absolute truth with certainty.

meaning, the right and truthful news in which there is no doubt, suspicion or confusion.

Then Allah says,

فَسَبِّحْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الْعَظِيمِ ﴿٥٢﴾

So glorify the Name of your Lord, the Most Great.

meaning, He Who sent down this magnificent Qur'an.

''La illaha ilallah Muhammadun Rasool Allah'' said...

Conclusion
so its clearly been prooved and refuted from context&tafsir ibn khatir and verses of whole Sura 69 that all the allegations raised by david wood are false&if he have to quote it he should quote it in context and he have to believe all verses after 44-46 and whole tafsir ibn-e-khatir of the Sura then he have to mention it in context which he didnt and Allah has confirmed in Quran Muhammad saw pbuh is not a liar or false speaker nor he will Allah(GOD) has propheciesed that this book is haq-al-yakin absoulute truth& Allah(GOD) donot lie!

so Quran itself prooved Muhammad SAW pbuh is a true Prophet truth speaker and Quran is Haq-al-Yakeen&Islam only true rlegion.

Zack_Tiang said...

Farhan said,
"poor christian running out of hell"

Yes, at least I'm away from hell. Praise the Lord Jesus. =)

Muhammad Imran Khan said...

You don't know the difference between "aorta being cut" and "feeling of aorta being cut" or deliberately confusing the two. This is as if one says I'm feeling my leg is being cut, and a moron like you says oh my, his leg is BEING cut.
Its the same difference as is between a metaphor and reality. If for instance we accept this logical absurdity of Feeling equals Actual (just like Three equals One and One equals Three), it remains historically and clinically incorrect.
If the aorta was cut he must have died there and then, but that did not happen, rather he(PBUH) died many days afterwards, which clearly shows your ignorance and deliberate misrepresentation.

Zack_Tiang said...

Muhammad Imran Khan,

I guess you don't realize the significance of the greatest and final prophet of all saying "I feel my aorta being cut" and a mere anybody saying "I feel my legs are broken".

charles said...

So this is allright is it?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23139784

flickr said...

I think there is a mistake, Sunan Abu Dawud 4449 should be 4499

flickr said...

Sunan Abu Dawud 4449 should be 4499?

The New Science Theory of Eal said...

Hi, There is a picture we see Mohammed was teaching his companion, a ram was standing there Qur'an was its head! A bird was sitting on his shoulder! How look this picture? An artist what represented about this picture?


এই ছবিটি দেখে সহযেই একটি বিষয় অনুমিত হয় যে, ইসলাম ধর্ম প্রচারে ছবিটি জোর ভূমিকা রাখতে পারে। ইসলাম প্রচার এমন এক যুগে শুরু হয়েছিল যখন আরব বিশ্বে কোন বিদ্যালয় স্থাপিত হয়নি। লোকজন আধৌ লেখাপড়া জানতোনা কিন্তু ছবি দেখে দেখে সহযেই অনেক কিছুই অনুমান করতে পারতো। ছবিতে দেখা যাচ্ছে একটি রাম ছাগল ওটার মাথায় কোরআন আটকিয়ে পয়গম্বরের হয়ে ম্যাজিক প্রদর্শন করছে। আর একটি পাখী পয়গম্বরের কাঁধে বসে পয়গম্বরীর প্রমাণ যোগাচ্ছে ! আসল কথাটি হচ্ছে কী, ইসলাম প্রচার যুগে কোরআন চাপাই হয়নি, রামছাগল সেটা প্রদর্শন করবে তো দূরের কথা। সেইরকম বাস্তবতা বিবর্জিত ছবি, গল্প, ঘটনা আল্লাহ এবং তার নবীর বলে চালিয়ে দেয়া হয়েছে। বাস্তবতা বিবর্জিত ঐসব ছবি, গল্পই একদিন ইসলাম প্রচারে মূখ্য ভূমিকা রেখেছিল, অদ্য পর্যন্ত তা অব্যাহত রয়েছে।


Look at the picture, prophet Mohammad was teaching new Muslims his prophecy, we can not see the picture in negative sense, this Image must be helped establishing Islam. This picture must be arts for establishing belief and faith, that time illiterate person saw it and they became Muslim. look at the picture, deeply, here is a Ram it obeyed Mohammad, It was carrying Qur'an on his head, but Qur'an was not printed that time! We see A bird was sitting on his shoulder!
http://godsbless.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18&Itemid=86

Graham said...

It is good to expose lies, and espouse truth, and insomuch as you do this in your ministry, I applaud you. But I have to stop and question the attitude that you have at times, which rears its ugly head in this video.

You come off like a little child, wagging his tongue at others and making faces. You say things like 'oh, for all my Muslim friends who don't bother to read their most trusted sources: Muahahaha', which is equivalent to saying "nana nana boo boo, you're a stupid head". And this attitude shows up in many of your videos and articles.

Honestly, if you're going to speak the truth, speak it in love. Do not conform to a mocking character, which is so much the way of this world. Give a defense of what you believe, but do so with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15).

David Wood said...

Interesting. But I'm wondering if you're consistent.

In Galatians 5:12, Paul says, "I wish that the ones who are upsetting you would castrate themselves!"

Did Paul really want them to castrate themselves? No. So he was being sarcastic. But according to you, that's evil. So do you condemn the book of Galatians?

In 2 Corinthians 12:13, Paul says, "How were you inferior to the other churches, except that I was never a burden to you? Forgive me this wrong!"

Did Paul think he had done anything wrong? No. So he was being sarcastic. Do you condemn the book of 2 Corinthians?

We can go on throughout the Bible, including quotations from God, Jesus, prophets, and apostles, showing that they were often extremely sarcastic. But let's see how you deal with Paul first.

InGODweTrust said...

OK,OK, Nice work David. You solved the "mystery" of Muhammed not being a true prophet. While I agree and concur with you on this and all that you say/find to be true, let me give you a little background on myself so you all can know where I'm coming from. I was raised strict Baptist, Born Again, Christian. Was abused mentally, emotionally and physically by people who raised me on all sides who "followed the Lord". Now grown, separated from my turmoil I can take a step back and see things I didn't before. I now have come to my own conclusion (which I know will get flack on here about) that I believe in a loving God who created us, but not that ANY man that walks among us claiming he is the prophet/Messiah, or ancient books written by men claiming it is divine, straight from ON HIGH. Your arguments ring true but on the other hand, "they" might say the same thing about Jesus... so God impregnated a young girl with himself, and had her give birth to himself, walked around preaching and recruiting followers, drew and stood on hard line, enraged the Pharisees, therefore (knew they would want to kill him)... If he was "the Son of God", wouldn't he be able to free himself? Just sayin... I mean if your claim that their prophet was a fraud and all this holds water, wouldn't that be a formittable arguement? It's one thing to prove a point, but to sit back and be so smug about it is quite another. Jesus, is what I would compare to modern day preachers like Joel Olsteen, but he's not dumb enough to run around screaming from the mountaintops that he's the Son of God incriminating himself from the congregation as being a false prophet. He LOVES his Private jet too much for that!

Unknown said...

Hello
I am a Muslim and my name is Ahmed. I am originally from Iraq. Please be aware that the main version of Islam is very very corrupt indeed. I think the main version of Christianity is also very very corrupt. Aisha and her father Abu Bakr wanted to rule (like the romans!). So they reduced the authenticity of the prophet, by lying etc. There is a satellite channel called FADAK which attempts clarify the situation. I sincerely believe that the prophet Muhammad was divine and infallible. But what you said is only correct according to Sunni Islam which is very very corrupt.

hugh watt said...

Ahmed

"..the main version of Islam is very very corrupt.."

Is this the version Muhammad founded?

How many versions of Islam did Muhammad start?

Unknown said...

In case you haven't encountered this yet David, here is a critical review by Bassam Zawadi: http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/prophet_muhammad__peace_be_upon_him__and_the_taking_of_poison.

Thank you for all that you do in the name of Christ.

Sameh said...

No need for debate Quran itself answers these deniers in the rest of verses following this verse :) LOL someone tries his worse to make it appear like a lie just to find out that Quran has already replied him/her from 1400 years ago

Verses 69:49 / 69:52
And there is no one of you who could prevent [Us] from him.

And indeed, the Qur'an is a reminder for the righteous.

And indeed, We know that among you are deniers.

And indeed, it will be [a cause of] regret upon the disbelievers.

And indeed, it is the truth of certainty.

So exalt the name of your Lord, the Most Great.

benoy benjamin said...

can i have the names of films those clips belongs too, seems like good ones

Awaked Australian said...

Moslems also believe that to be killed by a women is a ticket to hell. So what they are saying is that there Leader and Holy prophet Mohommed is in hell ,because he was killed by a woman. A Jewish women no less. She poisoned him with a Lamb roast .The other significance not lost on me would be that Jesus was called the Lamb of God by his followers. So anyway this would mean that if Mohammed is with Allah then Allah must be in hell too. The ruler of hell would be Satan. So I conclude from this that Allah is Satan then. ? Obviously Allah/Satan may or may not have killed this 'messenger' , but its very obvious God did.

Awaked Australian said...

So what they are saying is that there Leader and Holy prophet Mohommed is in hell ,because he was killed by a woman. A Jewish women no less. She poisoned him with a Lamb roast .The other significance not lost on me would be that Jesus was called the Lamb of God by his followers. So anyway this would mean that if Mohammed is with Allah then Allah must be in hell too. The ruler of hell would be Satan. Do I conclude from this that Allah is Satan then. ? Im not sure Satan would have killed his "messenger" but Im certain God did.

sam said...

Hi David.

I saw your video on youtube about the same subject being discussed here and posted a simple comment.

How long does a person has if his aorta is cut off?

I must mention, the video above is hillarious, i had a good laughed.

Please answer.

Unknown said...

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/has-the-isis-leader-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-been-092148153.html( Has the Isis leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi been poisoned?).

Is there seems to be Al- Baghdadi & Hazrat Muhammad Saheb's final fate similar?? It looks like this if Al Baghdadi gets killed. He also reportedly has got poisoned in a feast. Not sure if its some woman who contrived the plan to look similar.

Also, A familiar similarity is also there in following news from Mosul, Iraq.

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/isis-member-kills-father-insulting-terror-group-chief-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-699479.

You had mentioned that some old man had killed a wife for insulting Hazrat Muhammad Saheb. A similar fate has reportedly befallen on a father who insulted the so called " Khalifa "( Caliph)..

Unknown said...

Which ayat was invented or Muhammad (pbuh) own words according to David Wood?

When you say he was punished by Allah as stated in the quran then you should be able to point at which ayat is a fake or is not the word of God so that Muhammad (pbuh) was punished.

Also read the article below. It addresses David Wood's claim and explains why he is wrong in that.

https://www.call-to-monotheism.com/prophet_muhammad__peace_be_upon_him__and_the_taking_of_poison

Christian A. said...

Here is a source which refutes all possible objections of Muslims to this argument. God bless David https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muhammad%27s_aorta

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