It's all politics. Prez. Bush was no different!PRESIDENT BUSH'S QUOTES ON ISLAMIn the President’s Words: Respecting Islam •"Here in the United States our Muslim citizens are making many contributions in business, science and law, medicine and education, and in other fields. Muslim members of our Armed Forces and of my administration are serving their fellow Americans with distinction, upholding our nation's ideals of liberty and justice in a world at peace." Remarks by the President on Eid Al-FitrThe Islamic Center of Washington, D.C.December 5, 2002 •"Over the past month, Muslims have fasted, taking no food or water during daylight hours, in order to refocus their minds on faith and redirect their hearts to charity. Muslims worldwide have stretched out a hand of mercy to those in need. Charity tables at which the poor can break their fast line the streets of cities and towns. And gifts of food and clothing and money are distributed to ensure that all share in God's abundance. Muslims often invite members of other families to their evening iftar meals, demonstrating a spirit of tolerance." Remarks by the President on Eid Al-Fitr The Islamic Center of Washington, D.C.December 5, 2002 •"America treasures the relationship we have with our many Muslim friends, and we respect the vibrant faith of Islam which inspires countless individuals to lead lives of honesty, integrity, and morality. This year, may Eid also be a time in which we recognize the values of progress, pluralism, and acceptance that bind us together as a Nation and a global community. By working together to advance mutual understanding, we point the way to a brighter future for all." Presidential Message Eid al-FitrDecember 5, 2002 •"Islam brings hope and comfort to millions of people in my country, and to more than a billion people worldwide. Ramadan is also an occasion to remember that Islam gave birth to a rich civilization of learning that has benefited mankind." President's Eid al-Fitr Greeting to Muslims around the WorldDecember 4, 2002
I have met Michael Coren and he is a conservative jounelist. In Canada that is a breath of fresh air. He is also an a devout Roman Cahtolic having left a kind of sort "protestant" all enclusive church he attended in Toronto.Thought I agree with Michael's commnts on Obama I still think he is naive about Islam thnking that Islam can be reformed. And that I find dangerous thinking. An interview woth watch is Michael Coren and Sam Soleman. @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crFe0Db1gJk This is the issue and the Michael Coren I know and person has a naive view and person I come to know. I will hold this view until Sam Solamon is enterviewed by Michael,
Many Arabs have pea brains. Their education system is bad compared to here and their culture, is against their own religion.Following Islam PROPERLY is the solution.
LOVE IT! :D
Kim- The problem is that many Muslims believe that 'following Islam properly' means strapping on a suicide belt and blowing yourself up in a marketplace. Devout and Religious does not always mean Holy and Good.
KimFollow Islam properly is to make war agains us Kafirs untill we become Muslims, submit and pay the Jiziah or die.
The Arab witht eh pea brain was the barbarian Mohammed
A person can submit and be humiliated a thousand times-- he can submit and be made to commit mass murder, conquest, and to silence his thoughts-- over and over and over again.Or a person can reflect, keep his thoughts alive, and die.Once.Submission is damnation.Death is the better course.
Kim said..."Many Arabs have pea brains. Their education system is bad compared to here and their culture, is against their own religion.Following Islam PROPERLY is the solution."The education system is not the problem; for it is the religion itself that restricts opposition and ideas opposing its concepts. It is the religion that puts fear into those who don't conform and keeps them in shackles. In the West, Muslims don't have much to worry about and can be prosperous not because of Islam, but in spite of it since Western nations generally allow freedom of religion, press, assembly, and speech, whose concepts are not tolerated very well in Islamic controlled lands. Islam suppresses the individual whereas the Western mindset is to accentuate it. Western cultures tend to not oppress Muslims and allow them the freedom to violate and/or ignore many of their practices without any negative consequences. That is why American Muslims can preach Islam as a religion of peace and ignore practically all of historical Islamic interpretations that call for Jihad. Imagine the threat of death in Islamic lands for trying to reform Islam. Just imagine fearing for one's life for criticizing Islam based upon objective study of the Qu'ran and the Sunnah.Culture is not an excuse either. Islam developed in a backwards culture and it incorporated much of that backwardness into its idenity. The problem is that many Muslims are caught in a time warp since Mohammad's religion doesn't deal very well with progress and change. It tries to promote those 7th century Arabian cultural norms into modern times without apology. Part of this is due to the very nature of Islam. How do you follow Islam properly without applying Mohammad's violent 10 years in Medina, which, by the way, were the last years of Mohammad's life? How do you chronologically practice more tolerant Islam and ignore the final violent phase of Mohammad's life? Before you make apologies for that by blaming every act upon the unbelievers, you should think twice about employing that. All acts were not defensive. That is very easy to demonstrate from Islamic sources considered by most Muslims to be authentic.
Have to say I agree with donna on this one. Doubya was no different.
Kim,"Many Arabs have pea brains"Now T-h-a-t is racist! That is a truly racist remark, because it disparages a people, based entirely on their ancestry.Making a negative remark about a religion is not racism. But making negative remarks about persons born a specific race, really is.I thought you might like to see the difference.
Dr. Kim,You said "Their education system is bad compared to here and their culture, is against their own religion."Do you think that maybe their education is bad because they are taught Islamic sciences? You know, things like the "wind makes rain" or "drinking flies" is good for you, etc.? Kim?
Golden words by Michael Coren! I love his style! If all journalists in the West had similar attitude towards Islam as his a huge part of the problem would have been eliminated! Muslims would feel challenged and pressured in every turn to confront their monstrous theology and many of them would realize how incompatible with the Western values Islam is and either would go back to their Islamic home countries or would leave Islam or adapt it to the Western way of thinking. But as it turns out most journalists suck up to muslims and tip toe around them and thus muslims never feel any real pressure and get emboldened to walk over everyone! That is unfortunate! As he said we want Muslims to be free to practice their faith but not when practicing that faith comes at the expense of everyone else around them! Then we unequivocally should stop them from practicing such a faith!
This is part of IslamIslam is a religion of peace.Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious."Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"Qur'an:9:14 "Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them."Ishaq:300 "I am fighting in Allah's service. This is piety and a good deed. In Allah's war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting is righteous, true, and good."Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."
Kim is obviously a an Arab muslim or was at least raised in an Islamic home. Could you imagine the shame & disbelief associated with coming to grips with the fact that your family has been duped for generations (having their eternal aspirations possibly affected as well), let alone realizing that you've been wrong.Kim is in a state of denial....like the alchoholic who asserts that he doesn't have a problem. I pray that God will grant Kim the intellectual honestly to seriosuly hear and internalize the "opposing view" which is backed up by solid evidence (including her own muslim sources). I pray Kim stops lying to herself to her own demise. If she rejects the work of the Messiah on the cross, and hails a false prophet, she will be lost in her sins. May she wake up!!!
I'm not racist. I'm just saying, their culture, if you ever seen on the news or with your own eyes, even on Arab drama series, is the problem. Otherwise you see Arabs that are also very well educated, kind and proper Muslims, peaceful and trying to follow Islam in the most perfect way.
mkvine:Do you think that maybe their education is bad because they are taught Islamic sciences? You know, things like the "wind makes rain" or "drinking flies" is good for you, etc.? Kim?I don't think Islam teaches that wind causes rain lol. Or drinking flies? There's the one hadith that says IF a fly lands in your drink, then if you can, dip the whole thing in because one of its wings contains an illness the other contains the cure or something like that. Doesn't mean I have to drown it and kill it and then drink it. But I'm not sure about that hadith.
Kim,I *despise* flies!!! They are dirty, why would you expect me to drink them??? Thats sick.
OMG I am starting to think Kim is pulling our collective legs. She cant be this naive and for lack of a better word, dumb. Kim do you think one wing has a disease and one a cure>'And why is it these Islamist nations cant seem to get Islam right? Why is the total 57 Islamic nations GDP not even equal that of the Netherlands? I mean theyve killed most of the non Muslims in these countries, or they fled for their lives. Where is ISlam being practiced to its perfection? Or how about when?So you think killing gays, apostates, cutting off limbs, extorting the jizya from dhimmi like the mafia, oppressing them, and enslaving people is perfect?And how does cutting off a limb for stealing a loaf of bread and having the same punishment for someone who steals a million dollars sound perfect to you?I cant take you seriously anymore. You have been refuted and exposed on just about everything you say. Hopefully you will read something one day and something will snap in your brain! I will pray for you.
Kim said that "following proper Islam is the solution" proper Islam is what muslims in saudi arabia do, killing apostates, homosexuals, promoting war against the infidels, not allowing other religions, proper Islam is being fascist, and hater. Proper Islam is what Turks did in the Armenian Genocide i.e: This comes from some records about Armenian genocide in Wikipedia records, and everyone who has ever read the quran, hadith and tafsir will know that they got these ideas from there:"People were sure that the men were being killed and the women kidnapped. Many of the convicts in the prison had been released, and the mountains around______ were full of bands of outlaws. It was feared that the women and children were taken some from the city and left to the mercy of these men. However that may be, there are provable cases of the kidnapping of attractive young girls by the Turkish officials of _______. One Moslem reported that a gendarme had offered to sell him two girls for a medjidie ($4.00)." -Slaving and trading slaves for sex, as it is "halal" for Muslims?"During this reign of terror notice was given that escape was easy; that any one who accepted Islam would be be allowed to remain safely at home."No compulsion on religion? Actually they were doing what the Quran teaches in sura 9:29 in example. "These poor exiles were mostly women, children and old men, and they were clubbed and beaten and lashed along as though they had been wild animals, and their women and girls were daily criminally outraged, both by their guards and the ruffians of eve village through which they passed."-Having sex with "those which ur right hand possess"? raping and being a good Muslim while u rape?"They took my money and that from my daughter's neck, also all our food. After this they separated the men, one by one, and shot them all within six or seven days - every male above 15 years old."-Steeling and killing infidel as a war booty and yet being a good Muslim? Because the Quran also allow this."Very many women and girls were thus carried off to the mountains, among them my sister, whose one year old baby they threw away; a Turk picked it up and carried it off, I know not where."-More raping.
"One morning we saw fifty to sixty wagons with about thirty Turkish widows, whose husbands had been killed in the war; and they were going to Constantinople. One of these women made a sign to one of the gendarmes to kill a certain Armenian whom she pointed out. The gendarmes asked her if she did not wish to kill him herself, at which she said, "Why not?" and drawing a revolver from her pocket, shot and killed him."-Eye for an eye, Muslim style, even when Jesus taught better."The American Missionaries began considering plans to aid the women and children who would be left here with no means of support. It was thought that perhaps an orphanage could be opened to care for some of the children, and especially those who had been born in America, and then brought her by their parents, and also those who belonged to parents who had been connected in some way with the American mission and schools"-And yet you had the Bible example in front of you."There, the Armenians were subject to the whims of their Turkish and Kurdish neighbors, who would regularly overtax them, subject them to brigandage and kidnapping, force them to convert to Islam and otherwise exploit them without any interference from central or local authorities"-Why would do make unlawful something that is lawful in the Quran and hadiths, and we can see here what is actually the Jyzya, an "overtax""In the Ottoman Empire, in accordance with the Muslim dhimmi system, they, like all other Christians, were accorded certain limited freedoms (such as the right to worship), but were in essence treated as second-class citizens and referred to in Turkish as gavours, a pejorative word meaning "infidel" or "unbeliever."-So it is not about Islamophobia teaching lies about Islam, it’s just like it is described in the Quran and hadiths."In addition to other legal limitations, Christians were not considered equals to Muslims: testimony against Muslims by Christians and Jews was inadmissible in courts of law; they were forbidden to carry weapons or ride atop horses; their houses could not overlook those of Muslims’; and their religious practices were severely circumscribed (e.g., the ringing of church bells was strictly forbidden).:24 Violation of these statutes could result in punishments ranging from the levying of exorbitant fines to execution."-Anyone remeber the rules the dhmmies had to do under Islamic law, that were taught and perfrmed by the Caliphs?
"Armenian Communal Council petitioned to the Ottoman government to redress the issues that the peasants complained about the most: "the looting and murder in Armenian towns by [Muslim] Kurds and Circassians, improprieties during tax collection, criminal behavior by government officials and the refusal to accept Christians as witnesses in trial." -Were they acting as bad muslims?"As Ottoman officials intentionally provoked rebellions (often as a result of over-taxation) in Armenian populated towns, such as in Sasun in 1894 and Zeitun in 1895–96, these regiments were increasingly used to deal with the Armenians by way of oppression and massacre"-More Jizya and more of Muhammad's behavior toward infidels."Some Ottoman military elements, joined by Islamic theological students, aimed to return control of the country to the Sultan and the rule of Islamic law. Riots and fighting broke out between the reactionary forces and CUP forces, until the CUP was able to put down the uprising and court-martial the opposition leaders. While the movement initially targeted the nascent Young Turk government, it spilled over into pogroms against Armenians who were perceived as having supported the restoration of the constitution"-Islam is friend of democracy? it has never been an it won't ever ber, sinc the quran doesn't teach such."When Ottoman Army troops were called in, many accounts record that instead of trying to quell the violence they actually took part in pillaging Armenian enclaves in Adana province. 15,000–30,000 Armenians were killed in the course of the "Adana Massacre"-More quran aproved behavior."The Armenians offered five hundred soldiers and to pay exemption money for the rest in order to buy time, however, Djevdet accused Armenians of "rebellion", and spoke of his determination to "crush" it at any cost. "If the rebels fire a single shot", he declared, "I shall kill every Christian man, woman, and" (pointing to his knee) "every child, up to here."-War is deceit after all, and this is how Muhammad would've act.
Massacres:Eitan Belkind was a Nili member, who infiltrated the Ottoman army as an official. He was assigned to the headquarters of Kamal Pasha. He claims to have witnessed the burning of 5,000 ArmeniansThe shortest method for disposing of the women and children concentrated in the various camps was to burn them." -Muhammad companions didn't have a flamethrower, that’s why they had to spend entire days and nights killing Jews, modern Muslims have it easier.Use of poison and drug overdoses:-Morphine overdose: During the Trabzon trial series of the Martial court, from the sittings between March 26 and May 17, 1919, the Trabzons Health Services Inspector Dr. Ziya Fuad wrote in a report that Dr. Saib caused the death of children with the injection of morphine.-Toxic gas: Dr. Ziya Fuad and Dr. Adnan, public health services director of Trabzon, submitted affidavits reporting cases in which two school buildings were used to organize children and send them to the mezzanine to kill them with toxic gas equipment-Typhoid inoculation: The Ottoman surgeon, Dr. Haydar Cemal wrote "on the order of the Chief Sanitation Office of the IIIrd Army in January 1916, when the spread of typhus was an acute problem, innocent Armenians slated for deportation at Erzican were inoculated with the blood of typhoid fever patients without rendering that blood ‘inactive’We can see here that Muslims as they often claim, are way more advance in science thx to the Quran, well here you have them leading what the Germans wouldn't do until some decades later. "It is unlawful to designate the Armenian assets as "abandoned goods" for the Armenians, the proprietors, did not abandon their properties voluntarily; they were forcibly, compulsorily removed from their domiciles and exiled. Now the government through its efforts is selling their goods… If we are a constitutional regime functioning in accordance with constitutional law we can’t do this. This is atrocious. Grab my arm, eject me from my village, then sell my goods and properties, such a thing can never be permissible. Neither the conscience of the Ottomans nor the law can allow it"-But the quran and hadit allow it, so muslims doesn't care about Justice.
Death marches:Ottoman troops escorting the Armenians not only allowed others to rob, kill, and rape the Armenians, but often participated in these activities themselves. Deprived of their belongings and marched into the desert, hundreds of thousands of Armenians perished.-Why wouldn't they, they were slaves (right hand possess) why don't rape and steal them? Extermination camps "It is believed that 25 major concentration camps existed, under the command of Şükrü Kaya, one of the right-hand men of Talaat Pasha. The majority of the camps were situated near Turkey's modern Iraqi and Syrian borders, and some were only temporary transit camps. Others, such as Radjo, Katma, and Azaz, are said to have been used only temporarily, for mass graves; these sites were vacated by autumn 1915. Some authors also maintain that the camps Lale, Tefridje, Dipsi, Del-El, and Ra's al-'Ain were built specifically for those who had a life expectancy of a few days"-Then you hear muslim saying that the "christians" nazi were more violent, actually they learned from muslims.Persia "Throughout history, the nation of Persia has usually regarded itself as the protector of its fellow Indo-European nation of Armenia. However, in this case, no resistance was oferred by the mostly Islamic Persian troops when, after the withdrawal of Russian troops from the extreme northwest of Persia, Islamic Turks invaded the town of Salmas in northwestern Persia and tortured and massacred the Christian Armenian inhabitants in the cruelest possible manner"-Why would they?, if their fellow muslims were doing what Muhammad would've done."The deportations can not be any other issue than an annihilation war against the Greek nation in Turkey and as measures hereof they have been implementing forced conversions to Islam, in obvious aim to, that if after the end of the war there again would be a question of European intervention for the protection of the Christians, there will be as few of them left as possible"-but according to muslims, most ppl in arab countries are muslims because "Islam is such a good faith and not like catholcs in latin america who had to convert to christianity" yet we see a current time, that there is free speech for religions, when will muslims do the same? can they do hat? and also i must add that i totally can condemn the violent convertions, yet muslims would've done the same but they would be good muslims for doing that, while the catholics who did this werebad christians.
"In 1897, when the Dreyfus Affair was tearing France apart, Bernard Lazare, a French Jew active in Dreyfus's defense, addressed a group of Jewish students in Paris on the subject of anti-Semitism. "For the Christian peoples", he remarked, "an Armenian solution" to their Jew-hatred was available. He was referring to the Turkish massacres of Armenians, which in their extent and horror most closely approximated the murder of European Jews. But, Lazare went on, "their sensibilities cannot allow them to envisage that." The once unthinkable "Armenian solution" became, in our time, the achievable "Final Solution", the Nazi code name for the annihilation of the European Jews"-Diference is that we can totally condemn nazis for what they did, but muslims can't condemn Turks, becuase that would be condaming the Quran and Hadiths hence allah and his messenger.An eyewitness from Erzurum said, “I saw how numerous children were killed. My cousin ran away from home with a 2-year-old child on her shoulders, but she was shot and fell to the floor. Two soldiers came to her and killed her in front of the child. I saw the killing of our city’s spiritual leader. They gouged out his eyes, pulled his beard. Before killing him, the soldiers forced him to dance.” Mustafa Suleiman, a Turkish soldier, testified “We went into the Armenian villages and without regarding age or gender we killed all of them. Turkish villagers came with us and began pillaging the Armenian homes. Many elderly and disabled Armenians had hid in the school located in the city center; suddenly we got orders and killed them too. In the village of Gelieguzan 800 Armenian either murdered or burned. Father Hovannes’s eyes were taken out along with his beard, nose and his ears cut off. I have not killed any child and even saved two of them. I hid them for 3 days in my tent, but one day when I walked in I found their bodies disjointed.” -Didn't muhhamad order to pull out some eyes back in his times? can a muslim condemn these acts? so this soldier was a good human being tring to save the kids, but actually he was being a bad muslim.
"All the Armenian men, including doctors, lawyers, politicians, authors...the "brains" of each Armenian community...were tortured (nails plucked out, eyes burned by iron rods, blazing with heat), dismembered (ears, noses, lips, fingers, toes, limbs and even their heads cut off), burned in "cave" ovens, and crushed to death (they were forced into a cave, which the turks blew up, making the caves collapse"-Didn't muhammad do such acts? The blowing part he just couldn't do that at that time, but we do know he tortured ppl in such ways."...Feet, hands chests were nailed to a pien of wood, nail of fingers were torn out, eyebrows were pulled out, feet were hammered with nails as they do with horses, others were living with their feet up and heads down over closets...Oh! How one would wish that all these facts were not true."H. Morgenthau (U.S. Ambassador in turkey) in "The Tragedy Of Armenia"(1918)-And allah was happy muslims undetood the example muhammad gave them."Often, attractive young Armenian girls were sent to Turkish harems, where some lived in enforced prostitution until the mid-1920s"-Muhammad would call that,war booty.There were reports of crucifixions, at which the Turks would torment their victims: "Now let your Christ come and help you!"-No mates it wasn't Nero, it was muslim ppl not understanding at all Jesus sacrifice, and even i must say that these ppl wouldn't believe in Jesus death if it wasn't for Allah doing such a great job deceiving ppl.Johannes Lepsius, a German pastor who tried to protect the Armenians, said: "The armed gangs saw their main task as raiding and looting Armenian villages. If the men escaped their grasp, they would rape the women."-Ofc, they were slaves, and it's their right to rape them with the blessings of Allah."Suddenly the sound of rifle shots would fill the air. Those sent to bury the bodies would find them almost invariably stark naked, for, as usual, the Turks had stolen all their clothes."-More war booty and Allah was pleased of this, so they were good muslims after all."There was mass looting and pillaging of Armenian goods. It is reported that civilians burned bodies to find the gold coins the Armenians swallowed for safekeeping."-The question is, whay would have Muhammad done?One young boy remembered his grandfather, the village priest, kneeling down to pray for mercy before the Turks. Soldiers beheaded him, and played football with the old man's decapitated head before his devastated family.-Well Allah says that we are the worst of creatures after all, so why don't do it?
At the horrific Ras-ul-Ain camp near Urfa, two German railway engineers reported seeing three to four hundred women arrive in one day, completely naked. One witness told how Sergeant Nuri, the overseer of the camp, bragged about raping children.-muhammad doesn't consider 9 year old girls as "children"An American, Mrs Anna Harlowe Birge, who was travelling from Smyrna to Constantinople, wrote in November 1915: "At every station where we stopped, we came side by side with one of these trains. It was made up of cattle trucks, and the faces of little children were looking out from behind the tiny barred windows of each truck."-No it is not a german nazi narration,.In the city of Malatia, she saw 16 girls crucified, vultures eating their corpses. "Each girl had been nailed alive upon her cross, spikes through her feet and hands," Mardiganian wrote. "Only their hair blown by the wind covered their bodies."-Again this is not Nero's Rome, these are muslims acting as they must act if they wanna do what the quran teaches.By 1917, the Armenian 'problem', as it was described by Ottoman leaders, had been thoroughly "resolved". Muslim families were brought in to occupy empty villages.-Like Hitler's final solution, the diffeence is that muslims final solution is suported by the quran and hadiths.Haji Halil, a Muslim Turk, kept eight members of his mother's Armenian family safely hidden in his home, risking death.-GOD bless this guy, but if Muhammad would've been alive, what would he had told him? was Allah happy for this muslim decision, did he act according to the Quran and hadiths teachings? like the verse that says "it is prescribed to you to fight, even if you dont want, because Allah knows and you don't"Winston Churchill described the massacres as an "administrative holocaust" and noted: "This crime was planned and executed for political reasons. The opportunity presented itself for clearing Turkish soil of a Christian race."-Wa, political reasons? but all we see here is hate towards christians just for being christians, but w8 a min, where di they get such hate toward christians? JUST OPEN A QURAN !!"She survived the journey alone - her six children died along the way. The two youngest were thrown to their deaths down a mountainside by Turkish guards; the other four starved to death at the bottom of a well where they had hidden to escape.Varter herself was abducted by a man who promised to save her - but raped her instead. Eventually, she was released to mourn her lost family, the victims of Europe's forgotten holocaust."-War is deceit according to Muhammad so don't trust them.
"A young man was beaten to death within the space of five minutes. Apart from the bastinadoing other methods were employed, too, such as putting hot irons on the chest""Here is, in part, the story of another unhappy Armenian town: Daily, the police are searching the houses of the Armenians for weapons, and not finding any, they are taking the best and most honorable men and imprisoning them; some of them they are exiling, and others they are torturing with red hot irons to make them reveal the supposedly concealed weapons"-Anyone remeber the way Muhammad had tortured the guy who wouldn't tell where was the money hidden? You just need to read the hadith to understand why they did all these stuffs.SO TO FINISH MY POINT (SINCE I KNOW DAVID WILL BE MAD AT ME FOR HAVIING TO READ SUCH A LONG COMMENT HEHE) IS THAT NO MUSLIM CAN CONDEMN THESE TURKS ACTIONS, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE CONDAMING MUHAMMAD AND ALLAH, THEY GOT THOSE IDEAS FROM THE QURAN, MUHAMMAD AND HIS COMPANIONS, SO JUST LIKE NO CHRISTIAN CAN CONDEMN ANOTHER CHRISTIAN FOR NOT DENYING JESUS TO SAVE HIS LIFE BECUASE WE CAN'T DO SUCH A THING, NO MUSLIMS CAN CONDEMN THESE MUSLIMS. YETWE ALL CAN CONDEMN THE NAZY GERMANY, AND WE CAN SAY WITH NO PROBLEM, THAT THESE GUYS KILLING JEWS AND OTHER IN SUCH WAY WERE NOT CHRISTIAN AT ALL, ND IF A MUSLIM SAY "WHY DO YOU SAY THAT, WHO ARE YOU TO SAY SO" I WOULD JUST HAVE TO OPEN MY BIBE AND TEACH THEM WHY I SAY SUCH THINGS, BUT IF ANY WESTERN MUSLIM WHO OFTEN BELIEVE THAT ISLAMIS PEACEFUL BUT IT HAS BEING KIDNAPED BUT BAD MUSLIMS, WELL LET ME TELL YOU THAT IF THEE "BAD MUSLIMS" OPEN YOUR QURANS AND HADITHS AND TAFSIR, THEY WOULD PROVE YOU THAT ACTUALLY YOU ARE THE BAD MUSLIMS, THE ONES WHO DONT WANNA FIGHT, THE ONE WHO WILL GO TO HEAVEN WITH NO BATTLE MARKS, THE ONES BEING FRIEND OF INFIDELS, THE ONES NOT MAKING WAR AGAINST INFIDELS WHICH IS YOUR DUTY, AND IF THE WESTERN MUSLIMS TELL THEM "WELL BUT IF YOU ARE GONNA DO THAT COULD YOU PLZ BE LESS VIOLENT?" THEY JUST WOULD HAVE TO OPEN THE HADITHS AND SHOW THEM THAT THEY ARE ACTING LIKE GOOD MUSLIMS, LIKE MUHAMMAD DID, LIKE ABU BKR AND OTHE COMPANIONS DID, AND ACCORDING TO MUHAMMAD THE FIRST 3 GENERATIONS OF MUSLIMS WOULD BE THE BEST, SO ACTUALLY THEY ARE CLOSER TO BE LIKE THOSE GENERTIONS SINCE THEY ARE ACTING JUST LIKE THE DID.
SO FOR ANY MUSLIMS WHO READ THIS (I.E KIM), PLZ CONSIDER AGAIN IF “PROPER ISLAM” IS THE SOLUTION, CONSIDER AGAIN IF “PROPER ISLAM” IS PEACE, “PROPER ISLAM” IS GOOD, MERCY, LOVE? “PROPER ISLAM” TURN PPL INTO MONSTERS.PS: ALSO NOTICE THE TURKS (WHO WON'T ACCEPT THAT THEY DID THIS HORRIBLE GENOCIDE) BEHAVIOR TOWARD ISRAEL FOR NOT SAYING "WE ARE SORRY FOR KILLING 6 TURKS COMMING TO OUR COUNTRY IN AN ILEGAL WAY ATTACKING OUR SOLDIERS"PS2: IF ANY MUSLIM THINK I AM LYING WHEN I SAY THAT REAL ISLAM ALLOWS MOST OF WHAT I HAVE QUOTED, PLZ CHALLANGE ME AND I WILL POST THE HADITHS AND QURAN VERSES + TAFSIR, TO SHOW YOU THAT I AM NOT LYING.
PS3: Sorry agai for posting so many comments, but i just want to add to my oher posts, that the quran+hadiths+tafsir, don't only allow such violence commied by Turks in the Armenian Genicide, but it is an ORDER in many cases, like Sura 9:29.So Kim, if you readthis post, i sriously ask you, what is "proper islam" for you and plz quote me the verses so i can check if that's actually true and if they weren't abolished later, and to check what the Islamic Schools think about your position aout "proper islam". Because there are over 50 muslims nations, and yet i can't see any being a role model, yu can despise western culture, yet is wesern culture the one that allows you to preach, and live at peace, and is that same western culture, the one that you hear from most muslims saying that it is a "decadent" culture.
I disagree with "donna 60" - Bush was "different" from Obama. An example was the National Prayer Day service at the White House that Bush hosted - a big public endorsement of evangelical Christians. George W. Bush held events on the National Day of Prayer in each year of his presidency - That, for example, is VERY different from Obama.
Mary, You know I don't expect an awful lot from my worldly leaders. At least I realize that they aren't my elders. I share the same cynicism as Machiavelli, these days that politics have no relations with morals.But calling Prez Bush VERY different from Prez Obama, is a very big stretch. What fundamental Christian calls Jesus "a son?" What fundamental Christian disparages our scriptures? This is from an interview that Prez Bush did with ABC:MCFADDEN: Is it literally true, the Bible?BUSH: You know. Probably not ... No, I'm not a literalist, but I think you can learn a lot from it, but I do think that the New Testament, for example is ... has got ... You know, the important lesson is "God sent a son."Just for the record, I've had online arguements with Muslims, in which they state that Jesus was "a son of God."
MaryYou know what? You're right. Doubya was VERY different from Obama. Obama bowed to the Saudi King (and the Japanese Ambassador... Bush Senior threw up on Japanese Dignitaries) Doubya kissed and held the hand of the Saudi King! Hey, if you don't think the President of the US should bow to anyone, fair point. But Doubya and Abdulla looked a little too "chummy" for my comfort."Bush hosted - a big public endorsement of evangelical Christians." Being a believer in the "Separation of Church and State" and not being an avid or self proclaimed Christian myself, that's hardly an endorsement of Doubya to me. Not to mention, "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office"... well that's what I believe anyway.
My Two Sense,President Bush worshipped a demon-spirit at a Shinto temple in Japan, which you can investigate for yourself by googling it. I think that must surely make up for any indignity that he cast on the Japanese ambassadors when he got sick on them, unless the ambassadors were Christian.Apparently, according to the article I read, Christians in Japan and Korea were put to death during WWII for not worshipping at the temples, and they weren't as appreciative of our American president's efforts.I don't mean to disrespect our president. I respect our presidents, but I don't always respect their actions.
donna "I don't mean to disrespect our president. I respect our presidents, but I don't always respect their actions."donna I was actually defending you. I agree: Nobody said you had to always respect their actions. I used a Teddy Roosevelt quote in another thread that says we have every right to be critical of our leaders. I just get incensed at the "double standard" of some Obama critics that I know. I guess when Obama bowed to the Japanese dignitary and Bush Senior worshiped at a Shinto temple they were "soft on Shinto". LOLSeriously though. I was genuinely mystified that Bush kissed the cheeks and held hands with the Saudi King. It was my understanding that in Islam (especially Wahhabi or other strict forms of Islam), a Muslim couldn't even touch an infidel; that an Infidel is considered "unclean" on the same list as feces and urine and pigs. Maybe I am wrong. David?
I've got Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book Nomad on Audiobook and Infidel on eBook, so I can't give a page number for this source and I am paraphrasing here, but even she said something to the effect that Presidents don't have the luxury to take a hard line on Islam. I believe she specifically mentioned both Bush and Obama. I'll try to track it down. So donna, you're right. It's all politics.I know others will come back at me on her thoughts on Obama's speech to the Muslim world where her criticisms mainly addressed the hijab and the plights of women...
My Two Sense,Yes, I understand that we are in agreement with each other about politics.Nicolo Machiavelli was considered to be heretical, after writing "The Prince" but nowadays, the facts are that our leaders are exactly the way Machiavelli described the Prince--pretending to be religious, but really, not so much. It doesn't matter which party we vote for.
donna- I agree. I was just asking for consistency.
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